HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/22/1957 ` oS�FFOCk�D
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y p� SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y.
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Telephone SO 5-2660
APPEAL BOARD
MEMBERS
Robert W. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman M I N U T E S
Robert Bergen
Herbert Rosenberg
Charles Gregonis, Jr.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
Serge Doyen, Jr. August 22, 1957
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Board of Appeals was held at 7:30 P.M. on
Thursday, August 22, 1957, at the Town Clerkts Office in Southold, N. Y.
There were present: Mr.. R. W. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman
Mr. Robert Bergen
Mr. Herbert Rosenberg
Mr. Charles Gregonis, Jr.
Also: Mr. Howard M. Terry, Building Inspector
Absent: Mr. Serge Doyen, Jr.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 14 - Application of Leslie Jewell, Beckwith Avenue,
Southold N. Y., for a variance to the Zoning Ordinance on lot 901 x 1601, facing
private right—of—way and beginning 1.801 from Bay View Road, S outhold, N. Y.
Letter advising of date of public hearing, legal notices with affidavits from
two official town newspapers and application for variance were read by the Chairman..
Chairman: "Is there anyone present who wishes to speak 11forl' this appeal? Anyone
"against" ? There being no response I believe the board is agreed that this appeal
be granted. tt
Lot was purchased in. 1955 and has been held in single and separate ownership since
that date. Owner is unable to purchase any adjacent land to increase the width of lot,
total are of which is 14,400 sq.ft. Since the variande does observe the spirit of the
Ordinance and strict application of the Ordinance would produce undue and unique hard-
ship, the board unalmously agreed to grant this appeal.
Hearing ended.
Minutes of the August 15th meeting were read. On motion made by Mr. Rosenberg,
seconded by Mr. Gregonis, and carried, minutes were approved. M
PUBLIC NEARING: Appeal No. 15 — Application of James F. Douglass, Orient, N. Y.,
variance to the Zoning Ordinance on plot No. 2, Harbor Road, Orient, N. Y., on map
dated Sept. 15, 1950. 681 on Harbor Road, 801 on waterfront with depth of 2001.
-- _ 2
Southold T own Board of Appeals August 2.2, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
Letter to Mr. Douglass advising of date of hearing; legal notices with affidavits
from two official town newspapers and application for variance were all read by the
Chairman.
Chairman: I'Is there anyone present who wishes to speakilforil.,this appeal?"
Mr. Ernest G. Radford, East Marion, .N.Y. — 11 I wish to say only that I would
appreciate it if the board would grant this appeal. I think the sketch which is
attached to the appeal indicates the situation, and a map, dated .-September 15, 1950,
which I have here might be of interest to the board.
Chairman: I'Is there anyone present who wishes-to speak "against" this appeal?ll
Board studied appeal and unanimously agreed to grant the appeal as strict application_
.to the Ordinance would produce undue and unique hardship and the variance would. observe
the spirit of this Ordinance.
Hearing ended.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. _16, application of,Leonard Gilman, M.D. of 12 Sputh
Mountain Avenue, Montclair, N. J., for variance on Lot. No. 14 on tracing of map of �
"Laughing Waterst" Section 1, Southold, N. Y. hot- 841 on the water, 601 on Minnehaha
Blvd., with average depth of 1341.
Chairman read letter to Dr. Gilman advising of date of hearing,_ legal notices with
affidavits from� two official town newspapers and application. He then explained to all
present (approximately 27 people in all) the procedure taken in a public hearing, advis—
ing that all those wishing to speak would have an opportunity to do so and that rebuttal
of testimony would be allowed byt cross—examination of witnesses would not be permitted
a.s this is,a, board of equity.
Chairman: IlIs there anyone present who wishes to speak 11for11 this appeal?n
Mr. A. Reilly of Mattituck, N.Y., Builder: Dr. Gilman asked us, my Son and I,, to
appear for him. I. think everything is stated in the appeal. He has paid for the permit
to build pending an immediate decision this evening. We would like to find out your
decision so that we can get started.
Chairman: "Anyone wishing to speak 11againstIf this appeal?n
Mr. Stanley S. Corwin, Greenport, N.Y. — Representing a group of people from
"Laughing Watersti — "There are several things we would like to put across to the board.
Primarily I should like to get a look at the application. I have a map of "Laughing
Waters11 here which I think sets forth the lot under consideration this evening.
Description of it is: Section 1, Southold, N. Y., property of C. H. Wickham.
Chairman: "Date of this map, please. !'
Mr. Corwin: ' "There is no date. The -dimensions on applicant's map are not identi—
cal with the larger map which I_ have here. Property being 801 in front and 601 in rear
I presume that they are talking,about. the waterfront and the.road frontage being in rear
of the property. All the properties face the water. We are going to be concerned with
setbacks. Ordinarily we think of the setbacks as being from the road. There has been
evidence that these lots do not jibe with the map and if that is so it may well be that
Southold_ Town--Board of Appeals August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
the small map you have does not indicate exactly. the boundaries of the Dilman property.
Chairman: I'Did Dr. Gilman have a survey made?If
Mr. Reilly: °Yes. 11
Mr. Corwin IlThis topography of Mr. Van Tuylis jibes with the map but does not jibe
with the sketch accompanying his application. I should like to say that first off we
want to enter an objection to the form of the application. It is made by a corporation
and is not properly executed in the first instance.11
Chairman: °You say that it is made by a corporation and is not properly executed.
What do you mean by that. In so far as I know there is nothing in the Ordinance that
states who shall apply for a variance. We have had occasion to consider applications
before where a builder has applied for the variance. You think this is not properly
executed?"
Mr. Corwin: IfYes. I do not mean to say that the owner is the one to apply.
Builders, or Agents, or others may do it but not without the proper corporate seal. I
should like to know whether or not we are proceeding under the first section of the
Ordinance or whether or not we are to understand that application is being made to the
board under the section sub-division. As I -understand it, the board is limited.
Application is made to the Building Inspector. He, if he is obliged to do so, rejects
it and then, pursuant to your rules, an appeal is made to this body. "
Chairman: IlFor sometime we have been trying -to get a legal opinion from our
counsel with reference to the point you just made. In other words, we felt, if it were
possible under the Ordinance, that application on a lot held in single and separate
ownership before the enactment of the Ordinance could be made directly to the Building
Inspector who would be empowered, where the side yards restrictions were not violated
in excess of 50 percent, to issue a building permit. Just the other day we got the
answer. I believe that this may have some bearing on your remarks as to the propriety
of variance being applied for and I would like to read the letter, dated August 9,
1957, from Mr. R. G. Terry, Jr., Town Counsel:
110pinion 41.
With reference to your inquiry as to the necessity for a variance on
a lot held in single and separate ownership that is undersized and owned
prior to the enactment of the zoning ordinance, this is to advise you
that, based upon my interpretation of the ordinance, it is my opinion
that Section 307 warrants the issuance of a permit by the Building
inspector when he is satisfied that the side yards are not reduced
beyond 50% and that all other conditions of the ordinance are complied
with. No application for a variance or special exception is required
unless the applicant desires a further reduction in the side yards. "
Mr. Corwin: 11.I think that it does. I subscribe 100 percent to the opinion that
Mr. Terry has given this board. I should like to point out that it is possible to put
a building on this lot which will not have the necessary side lines, ete.11
Mr. Reilly: III was wondering what Mr. Corwin has in mind. We intend to standby
the sidelines and requirements, and everything else."
1Y
Southold Town Board of Appeals August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
Mr. Corwin: "With respect to the application I should like to call to your atten—
tion the fact that it does not truthfully state what the facts are. It said, among
other things, that it was between similar lots. That is not the case. The property to
the north is Lot 13 and is owned by Mr. Schneider. There were three lots between the
road to the north and this present one and the three lots were divided so that there is
actually a lot and a half owned by each party. Mr. Schneider and his son own half of
lot 12 and all of lot 13. Mr. Hofford owns the northly half of Lot 12 and all of lot
11. The three lots to the south are owned by two different people. There is one lot
651 in front owned by Mr._ Edsel. The lot adjacent is a combination of two lots."
Chairman: "Mr. Edsel owns lot No. 15? 11
Mr. Corwin: "Yes. Lots 16 and 17 are owned by one person so you see that the
application does not give this board the proper indication of what the situation is in
this vicinity. The exercise of the zoning ordinance is the exercise of the police power
as granted to the Town. Board and the limits under which they have rights to zone as
prescribed by that law. Lots of people are hurt when a zoning ordinance is_ adopted.
Once it is adopted values are set. In accordance withthe zoning law people are hurt
when variances are granted. There are about 36 members of the Civic Association and
there is a unanimous feeling among this group that this variance should not be granted.
Of course our prolblem is one of wondering what the nature of the variance is but they
do not say and that is one of the reasons that we are considering the entire application
improper and we do not think there is any undue hardship."
Chairman: "They ask for a variance to Section 303 of ARTICLE III. Now would you
say that this was not being specific enough? We have recommended to the Town Board
that this Section be changed to include the wordfland" in place of rforl' where it speaks
of a lot having a frontage of less than one hundred feet. Would you say that that was
not being specific enough?"
Mr. Corwin: "I think the ordinance in that respect is poorly drawn. If you go
on to Section 307 and 308 there are proviso paragraphs. I think that you have got to
read all of these sections together and it appears that the Town Board, at the time it
adopted this ordinance, did not intend that a house be built on less than 12,500 sq.
ft. and if that is so, and if we are going to be consistent, the applicant should make
application to the building inspector and, in that case, we would not be here this
evening.
Mr. Reilly: 11We have applied for a permit. We showed the inspector the size of
the house, setbacks, etc.H
Chairman: "Application was made before we received the letter from Mr. Terry.
Mr. Corwin: "Regardless of the letter, if you were proceeding in the normal
administration of the ordinance then notice for rejection for reasons stated therein
would be a part �of this..application and we do not think that the board would have
authority to pass on it. "
i
Chairman: "Just how would you handle ari application for a variance on an undersized
lot? There are several circumstances under which a variance has to be secured to build
a residence or home on an undersized lot. We assume that when we issue a variance that
other regulations of the Ordinance will be observed. We do not issue a variance and quote
the entire Ordinance. " You say that this application is not in proper form and does not
contain the corporate seal., I am sure that we can get a corporate seal if it is necessary
but I would not want to have another public hearing on this unless it is necessary.
5
Southold Town-Board of Appeals August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
Mr. Corwin: °We object to the fact that the builder is making application instead
of the applicant. Dr. Gilman owns another piece of property nearby and other properties
here and he is intending to develop these and put up some houses for rental. This area
is not that kind of development at the present' time and it is not an area that the people
wish to have changed by making it in the nature of a motel. We realize that people who
own property have a right tl put up a house and rent but frankly this is in the nature
of a business and would change it into a business district and I think this board should
take into consideration_the type of people who live here.
Chairman: "You say Dr. Gilman owns several parcels of land and you believe that it
is his intention to put up rental units."
Mr. Reilly: Mr. Gilman owns three other lots.11
Chairman: 11 Are there any other houses that are rented. "
Kathleen Wright: "Yes there are. We live in the community and there are others here
who might like to make their personal views to the board. We do not think that Dr. :Gilman
will live in this development. He lives in Montclair.11
Mr. Reilly: °Dr. Gilman plans to live in this house himself. "
Chairman: I'Do you know how long this lot has been on the market?°
Mr. Reilly: 1110 years. 11
Chairman: III might add something. It is illegal under the N. Y. State law, under
which we are acting, to require that a certain amount of money be spent to build a house;
that is in a Zoning Ordinance. ' he developer- can impose"that type of restriction.
Whether a man spends $1,000 or 100,00.0 is not a matter which legally concerns us.
Mr. Reilly: I'The cost of the house Dr._ Gilman intends to build is $7.500.00.
Mr. Corwin: HI thank you for hearing me out. I will stand aside for the moment."
Mrs. Schneider: "Should not the 251 side yard apply to this lotY°
Chairman: "We can impose restrictions as to sidelines and the ordinance provides
that the sidelines can be reduced by 50 percent.11
Mrs.. Schneider: I'This, roughly, is about 9,600 s .ft. What about off the street
parking?11
Mr. Rosenberg: "The ordinance provides for off—street parking. Also that no house
can be put further forward than other houses in the d.istrict.°,
Charles Hofford: "I own lot No. 11. We have no gripe or objection to Mr. Reilly.
He has put in quite a few houses there and they are nice places. Having served on the
zoning board in Great Neck I know what you are up against. I spoke with Dr. Gilman and
he said he had just bought four lots and was going_ to build a place for himself and also
put up rental units. I told him that there was a new zoning ordinance in the Town and he
said he would have to find out about it. - He said he .had bought lots 9 and 10. Applica—
tion states that the lot in question is between lots of similar size and that is not
entirely correct.
Chairman: "We appreciate hearing from some one who has had experience along this line.
It is our understanding that there are no adjoining lots to the one in question which can
be purchased.
11
Southold Town- Board of Appeals Au_ t 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
Mr. Hoffprd,: "As I understand it, he has a lot across the street and two other lots. "
Mr. Rosenberg: "You would not call this adjacent would you Mr. Hofford? All we are
concerned with now is Lot No. 14. This is the variance the man has applied for and
Mr. Reilly, representing the buyer, is here foria the same purpose.fl
Mr. Hofford: "We are concerned with this from the commercial standpoint. This
might be one of the rental units. It is anybody's guess.11
Mr. Rosenberg: I'So far he his stated to Mr. Reilly that he is going to live in it.
I would like to read Section 802 of the ordinance, "The Board of Appeals shall make rules
as to the manner of filing appeals or applications for special exceptions or variances".
It is up to us whether it requires a corporate seal. All we are trying to do is follow
out the duties of the board and I dontt really think that it makes any difference whether
the application is made in red ink, green ink or contains a corporate seal.,,
Mr. Corwin: "The ordinance provides that all rules and procedures of this board
should be filed in the Town Clerk1s office. I came to the Town Clerk' s office during
business hours but was told that the Board of Appeals had filed no rules or procedures
with the Town Clerkis office. Now it may be that you considered them to have been filed
there in the Town Clerk's office, as this is also your office. I am not saying that to
be critical but just to point out that we have tried to present the objections in accord—
ance, with the rules you have made."
Chairman: "Mr. Rosenberg and I spent a great deal of time in outlining rules and
procedures as simply as possible in connection with the Building Zone Ordinance. The
Southold Town Board published this sinrplified information sheet on April 29, 1957, and
it was based on our recommendation to the Town Board."
Mr. Corwin: I'The rules and procedures you have are a little inadequate. I would
like to say that where there is asmall lot the property owner takes the position he cannot
build on it because he won't be able to get a variance and in that connection I was talk—
ing to some of the property owners in Laughing Waters last Sunday and they feel that he
can sell it for a reasonable price."
Chairman: °I do not think that that has been advanced. In any case, as you probably
know, and Mr. Hofford knows, the board is not able to consider financial hardship. Is
there any one else who wishes to speald n
Mrs. Sclnlezder: "We are trying to conserve the waterfront. We are afraid houses
will be squeezed in and I think it would be wiser to leave open, spaces along the water--
front.n
Chairman: "We agree. The Zoning Commission spent more time on the subject of size
of the lot which would be in the ordinance than on any other one thing. We considered
objection from young people, who perhaps are not as well off financially as the people
of Laughing Waters. We. considered, among other things, the usual restrictions of the
Board of Health and after much study reached the concxlusion that 100t x 125t should be
the minimum lot size. -To many people that size lot is a hardship in itself. As you
know in some areas they are getting as high as 50 to 100 dollars per foot for waterfront
property and for some people that is an enormous price to acquire waterfront property.
Mrs. Kelly: OPeople who buy waterfront property are luxury buyers who are buying
for their pleasure and I am sure that if Dr. Gilman bought four lots it cannot be con-
sidered a hardship. We want_ to keep that place nice and do not want to see places rented
to people who will not care. That- is what he is up to, living in one place until such
time as he builds another. Mr. Edsel tried to buy that property but it was sold to
Dr. Gilman withthe idea that he would buy more, so those things I think should be
r
Southold Town.-Board of Appeals Auf 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
considered and thought about. It is not a hardship for people.who are_ doing._luxury buying.It
Deborah Aldrich: HI am President of Laughing Waters Civic Association which has been
in effect for two years now. Recently many new houses have gone up in our section.
There are a few houses which have been there for ,20 years or more. Many of us ba.ve a great
deal of money in our land and our houses. We have a financial interest in our. properties
and do not want to see it go down in value. Also where our children rub} and play in the
streets we feel that people who are renting will perhaps not be as careful.
Mr. Reilly: IlWe have a house -down there now which we built, which is a very nice
house. We are putting up a $7,500.00 'house for Dr. Gilman. "
Mr. Edsel: 1IMay I say that it faces the wrong side. 11
Mr. Rosenberg: "Mr. Edsel could you give us the approximate price of the house that
is •south of the land in auestion. 11
IJlr. Edsel: "Price as $3,500.00. It is double today.
Mrs. Bork; IlMr. Reilly says he is putting up a $7,500.00 house for Dr. Gilman and
the other house he built to sell is on the market for 17 or 18 thousand."
Mrs. Yarro: "I would just like to say that we are against it.!'
Mrs. Lohn: "I think the main purpose of this consideration is the fact that the
house will be too close and will have the other fellow looking in his windows. If they
do not have a reasonable -distance between each it will defeat the whole purpose of trying
to make things look nice.11
Chairman: "We can impose some restrictions on the building on this lot. Is there
anyone who wishes to speak for "rebuttalli. for this appeal?°_
Mr. Reilly: "Would you suggest that we hold up a day or so. We have signed a
contract but will hold up if Mr. Edsel wishes to purchase this lot." "I would just like
to say that Dr. 'Gilman came down toe the Town Clrk's office and we .all spoke to Mr. Terry.
Dr. Gilman signed some of the papers and we signed the application. Dr. Gilman paid for
this permit."
Mr. Terry, Building Inspector: . 110n a 1001 lot you are only required 25t for side
yards. In their application they specify 281for side yards.11
Mrs. Vanderbeack: "I spoke with Mr. Gilman and he said he intended to build on the
waterfront.. One house for himself and three rentals. We do not know who is going to
rent them. "
Chairman: "Is Dr. Gilman aware of the amount of protest to all this or is he in the
dark?
Mr. Reilly: III do not think h.e.realizes. Dr. Gilman asked to have a completed
home and he wanted to live in that house but at the present he is only building the one
house:
Chairman: IIWe will `recess, this meeting without a decision, pending the outcome
in case Mr. Edsel purchases this particular lot. There is nothing we can do about the
other lots FEr. Gilman has purchased nor can we prohibit the building of a house for
rent. We do not always know when lots are purchased what the land will be used for.°
c
Southold Town-Board of Appeals A st 229 1957
MINUTES;-. Continued
Mrs. Aldrich: "In regard to these rentals, if this man cannot build on a small lot
and he had to purchase 1001 average we feel that perhaps we can stop him from building
rentals as that would be quite expensive.'
Chairman: 'IDo any of the members of the board wish to say anthing at this time?"
Mr. Rosenberg: "I think that perhaps by giving Mr. Edsel a chance to speak to
Dr. Gilman he may be able to purchase the lot and then, when we have further word we can
make the decision.°
Mr. Corwin: 'One of the aspects of hardship in an application of this nature is
whether or not Dr. Gilman owned the property at the time the Ordinance went into effect.
The circumstances that would prevail might have some bearing on the boardIs decision and
I should like to have an opportunity to find out when the property was acquired by him
and submit evidence of it."
Mr. Rosenberg: "He acquired_ -it after zoning went into effect. It may not be
necessary to have another public hearing. Probably Mr. Reilly will withdraw the applica—
tion and that would solve the whole problem. If not, Bearing will be reconvened in about
three weeks. Is- that satisfactory to you Mr. Reilly? I presume that Dr. Gilman does
not expect to live in the house this year. °
Mr. Reilly: I'He has given us a certain amount of money to get started on it. If
the people want to buy the property we will just step .out of the picture. "
Chairman: I'I think that someone who knows Dr. Gilman should contact. him. How
about the Civic Association?"
Mr. Corwin: "Going on their behalf I would follow up but I do not represent
Mr. Edsel directly. I would say that three weeks would be ample time. "
Chairman: "we will reconvene in three weeks if necessary."
Hearing ended.
PUBLIC. HEARING: Appeal No. 17 on application of Franklin C. Ashby, 94 Milburn Ave. ,
Hemp_stead, N. Y. , for variance to zoning ordinance on Lot. No. 3 on map of "Cove Parke, 11''nn
dated July 29, 1957. Property located on Private Road, West Side of 6th St. , Greenport, " 1
N.Y. , 971 on north, 1131 on east and west and 100.051 on south; total of 11,000 sq.ft.
Letter to Mr. Ashby advising of date, of hearing, legal notices with affidavits
from two official town newspapers and.-application for variance were .read by the
Chairman.
There being.no one present wishing to speak either ! for" or "against" this appeal,
board studied application and unanimously voted to grant appeal. It was the boardIs
decision that Mr. Ashby has adapted the property in so far as possible to the zoning
ordinance. On suggestion of this board Mr. Ashby has increa.sed the size of most of/the
lots.
Board studied petition of Ursula Sledzieski and Lawrence T. Waita for a change of
zone on property, located in Southold, N. Y. , to be used by a veterinarian.. It was
decided to advise the Town Supervisor that before considering this appeal as a special
exception the board would have to have a legal opinion from the Town Counsel.
Southold Town Board of Appeals August 22, 1957
MIND RS, Continued
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 18 on application of Franklin C. Ashby,. 94. Milburn
Avenue, Hempstead, N. Y. , for variance to zoning ordinance on Lot. No. 13 on map of
"Cove Park',, -.dated July 29, 1957•' Property located on Private Road, West Side of
6th Street, 'Gre' enport, N. Y. , 87.51 on north and south x 14,01 on east and wrest, a
total of 12,250 sq. ft. „
Letter to Mr. Ashby advising of date of hearing, legal notices with affidavits
from two official town newspapers and application for variance were read by the
Chairman.
There being no _one present wishing to speaY either "for" or 11againstH this
appeal, board studied application and unanimously voted to grant, this appeal. It
was the board.f,s decision that Mr. Ashby had adapted the property in so far as possible
to the zoning ordinance. On suggestion of this board Mr. Ashby has increased the dize
of most of the lots.
Eoar .iig. ended.
Board, .after lengthy discussion regarding the operation of sand and gravel pits,
decided to send their recommendation to the Southold Town .Plaruzing Board for the
inclusion of a.paragraph, to be numbered 17, to ARTICLE IV, Section 400 of the
Zoning Ordinance, which would assist in controlling the unregulated sale of sand,
gravel and top—soil.
Meeting adjourned at 11:50 P.M.
Respectfully su mm1Jitted,
..
Grace B. Meyer
• Secretary
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