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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-10/18/1965-PH PUBLIC HEARING EAST CUTCHOGUE SCHOOL Main Road., Cutchoguet N. Y. 7:30 P.M. October 18Z 1965 P r e s e n t w e r e: TRUSTEES ALVAH GOLDSMITH, Chairman JOHN MC NULTY FRANK DAWSON GEORGE SIMPSON Proposed Dredging of Broadwaters Covet Mud Creek - Etc. MR. GOLDSMITH: I will preface this meeting by saying that it is called on the request of approximately 100 property owners who are opposed to the proposed dredging plan. Nowi there are a lot of people here tonight and I=m sure there are a number of people who would like to be heard «. come forward and give your name and address to the secretary, and make it as brief as passible. @his hearing is not going to be a debate it's not going to result in arguments. We are here to get facts. it -isn't necessary for the Trustees to have a hearings but we donit want to do things in an underhanded fashion " you have the right to express your opinion and that is the purpose of the hearing tonight and I hope it will be conducted on the high plane khat we have a right to expect from this audience. I would like to hear from someone in opposition to this plan, MR. OSBORN MC KEGNEY: I am attorney for the property owners who filed the petition -• who requested this hearing. I trust this is just what it is, a public hearing where you seek to get the wishes and desires of your community so that you can act in a parliamentary manner -• all you do is get the wishes of your community. I would like to very briefly state that there are two issues that have to be determined tonight. The first issue is the power of the XTrustees of this Town to prevent the dredging operations. There is a •di.fference of opinion among many people, not only in your community but in all similar communities= as to ex• actly what power the Trustees have to stop a dredging operation. it seems to be an impression that if the Army engineers approve a project that your hands are tied - that is not correct. Despite the Army engineers., if the Town Trustees believe that the best interests of the citizens will be adversely affectedi they have the right to stop the dredging operations if that be thair opinion. The second issue which you must determinekis that after assuming that you have the power r- should you excercise that power either to stop the dredging operations or to approve the operation. These are the two issues you will have to determine tonight. I assume you are here to hear the wishes of all the people in this community who would, like to be heard. Nowi I would like to leave with you a legal memorandum which es" tablishes the right of the Town TLrustees to prohibit these dredging operations. As you knowi that power stems from the old Andros patent. This memorandum establishes that from the Andros patents the New York State Constitution= five separate acts of the New York Legislatures- and similarly., six Court of Appeals decisions which ascertained the rights of the Town TLrustees as to jurisdiction over the bottoms of your creeks and covesi and it follows from that that you have an ab- solute right= if you so decides to exercise that power to stop these operations. How you should exercise that power is the reason you have called this meeting. I would like to offer some additional files that I think will be of some assistance. I would like to offer you a file that describes the dredging project from the request of the county to the Army engineer for permission to dredge the creeks through your concurrence. Alsos a letter written by youi Mr. Chairmanf on February 27 in which you ex- plained you would like to have more information. I have a very inter- esting filei Mr. Chairman. These dredging opeations have been done in this and other parts of the communities. I have a file of letters from property owners where they have had dredging operations which Dredging . Broa.dwa:ters 'Cove- etc? ­2­ October. l8" 1965 havenl-t been ,stopped, These people, "'.,what- happened `to 'them after the -dredging operations. Immediately, you,are .going,',.to' have`'a beautiful body of .water and everyboldy can,":get. their'boats. out to' the channel ' it just doesn't happen that way a" We' get a .great big channel, in the middle -and a mud . flat .on the .sides. the use of the:.water' instead of being .enhanced is,, diminished .and., these letters will establish, that ;this .is So„: I have here a.;%petition.signed 'by .several hundred people with their K 'names and addresses. -This 'is in,.addition to -the petition signed by - - several hundred affected by,.this ::dredging .operation. I have a file of: various letters written' by .the U. S. Department of.'Interior ,,F.ish and Wildlife Service. Two letters apply.to' State proj ects :in wYiich "tYiey state their..opposition to dredging. it'.destroys the ecology.",_ it dew stroys. ahe 'existing 'fish, and wildlife'.. . .The third ,letter .is on' 'this. very project, and the `Fiah and TnTildl.ife Service . explain ..dl hibs -- ,we .;don't want to stop this entirely�. but. we will .tell 'you what you can .do to prevent the destruction ''of the -ecology of. the creeks.. Let i.t -gor .but'. limit it so, that°it.-will not have the destroying 'eff.ect, it would have - btherwis.e„ I; haveanother file' of..the -after-4effects .of'. some of these opera-- tion.s" including'.a very ;excellent'•°letter. showing `exactly what happen&d under similar operations .in other .'Sta�tes :where. complete. oyster beds were'.des troyed. and .they: have never .been.' able, to' replace' .them„ You gentlemen •can 'read it. and' see -what :.actually happened. (Mr. McKegney then called attention, to .a prominent .lawsuit' 3-n`,North. Carolina where Army, engineers completely wiped :out:oy,ster .b`eds ,.and. had never :placed them. ' He..stated that sx 'this, happened here",' the people' would. have,.the right to :sue Just '.as. they have,' in -North' Carolina. and .'it'. is the. duty of the: Trustees to .prevent such a lawsuit'by stopping it. -in, the very be--' ginning,) That'. is. the documentary'evidence. I. would. like to. mak'se. one "further- statement:. � ' ther.e:,are gentlemen here that .I hope in the course of,'the evening' you. will-, be able to listen... to­., I am. not -going to.'attempt tpX discuss the. "nature. of these .dreding opetzations'.:', I •am a lawyer -»: I know nothing about i ":: and I have `enough- intelligence t rio to , try to :diacuss a:subject in ':whi:ch I am completely' i:gnorarit. I just ,know the legal .rights " of .these".people and I do -know that there are gentlemen here..who ave thoroughly .gualified .to discuss this project and the- positIor' my clients. take "is not, that they want..to. stop progress "itx s a problem; of"stopping`destruction. ., There is :a differ-» ence. between. progress and -destruction: They want.the progress and "to. the extent that we have.'`dre' ding operations done properly and not 'stop progress, " they. are. not .,opposed. , If, it goes through on the present scale" .t;s destruction. : To.,establish . that" we.:would wish to - call here . Mr.e Robert--Cushman" Murphy".-author, of::.."History of Man: and. Nature on Long " Island" and one ,o.f the.,foremost ecologi.ets 'iri the country: He -is hereto give yo.0 technical.:-informations In addition' to that" we have representatives . of the, Fish: and Wildlife, Service: ' ..representatives ,of the Department of Conservation who .are fami1 r' with the problem and who have -the .technical information .to help. -» Mr, Dowel and XMr. •Tarramino, It. is .your ' right ana'-d'uty to stop- the;=destruction of property that belongs'.to:-the people of this community. Dredging Broadwaters` Covez,, ,Etc: October 18 1965 MR. GOLDSMITH: We are supposed to have here these experts -- .I would ask that you limit your remarks: to five minutes. Dr. Murphy? DR. ROBERT MURPHY: I` didn"It come hereto speak .before this grnupz but i-am a Long -Islander -by birth and an inhabitant of Brookhaven Town and I would-like -to speak for a few minutes about the salt marshes as an important aspect .of the' history- of the land with important bearing upon. the happiness of the: people of Long Island and on all part-s of -the AtlanticX seaboard'. (Dr,.. Murphy discussed at some length the different types of wildlife abounding on Long Island; and the dangers of .losing the very valuable salt .marshes on the Island by burying it with the spoils sucked up 'from the bottoms around it. He felt it was very wrong to dig out channels where clamsr ..e'scallops and oysters are teeming as they have not- been-. in .years. He felt that dreding would result in the buildup ;of mud banks which would cover the valuable salt marshes..) I know that there: is 'no' intention of spoiling the' marsh at the meeting -of the three creeks. but the marsh for a long distance above is doomed' to ' be covered with spoil. . That. is .the worst possible land use... It- 'de— stroy 'beauty- itX- destroys productivity. Massachusetts has reached the point- at. last .where the law .says there can be no further. d.estruction of salt ]narshl' not even by individuals who own it. . ' That is what you should . reach on. Long Island. MR., GOLDSMITH:' Thank your Dr. Murphy. Mr. Dowel? MR.. SUMNER DOWEL: 'I am the representative "in charge of-. Fish and Wildlidfe . Bellport: Long : Island ' I am here to: present the Federal , Government*sX official position. . Our Department made a report March 2 to the Corps of Engineers. suggesting. certain things that .would preserve . fish and ,wild land; I should point out' at this point that the Conser- vation Department only considers these-matters. and do. not have to approve dredging on the. otherihandz the Corps of 'Engineers does not always con-- Sider our recommendations. Our lawyers in Washington" they have had hundreds of ' dredgging projects on Long island and Several--on these matters considered by the Army Engineers. - in this _case- we recommended five things from our Boston officer 111. That .dredging in East .Creek be delayed until after April 1 to allow removal and.- transplant ng -of shellfish stocks.Y. . "2. That .the applicant remove. the . shellfish, from JEast Creek and transplant these shellfish to a suitable -location. "8' That both' the'.:removal and transplanting of shellfish:.- stocks be coordinatbd .and directed by -the New York, State Division of Fish -and Game„ "4, That spoil deposited on the east shore of Broadwater Cove be diked or confined so' as. to= prevent any runback into. the waterway. "5. That all channel- dimensions be limited to bottom widths of .60 feet and depths of 5 feet -at. m.l.w. ". (Mr. Dowel then cited figures on the loss Kof salt marsh• along the Atlantic. Coast," and that, Long island has. 25- to .30/ of the remaining marshes and these are very productive.) Died in Broadwaters, ,Covet etc. October' .18 1965 One other point I• wish to .work in here :is: that your .salt, marshes are not .only. pro e'_= they ;have. a ,sporige�shock ;action which.'-dissi- . pates the force `of., hurricah6s MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank .you..,very. muchr Mr A., Dowel: MR. ANTHONY S;. .TARRAMINQ: I .am Regional Supervisor of Fish and fo the-, N nDeparmet .� .O -ir DeGame r .. De- -Game has concurred..with the. U. :S. Wildlife; Service .in the: report,'of Mr.: -Dowel'. which.:he has read• part of.' I might-.remind you folks ]here that we in the State . Conservation Department are workiri:g.for-.all the people . in the State and try to manage .your. resources in such a way: that' we think ;ks: in' the best interests. of: all the people. in the Stater I know. on', Lohg. 2slandX it .seems hard to` -think .that you,are .part of the . State of New York':-'but'-people who live :as 'far:away .as - Buffalo 'or,•Albany ar'e .concerned ,about the. .2sland resources .just as we, hope 'you think of the timber..resources in., the State. You .,do l - as State -citizensz' own.' about 3. ,-000,- 000. acres:of t r public lands in �New .York State. Now,,, we' in the State . Conservation Department=' are'often .accused .of ,thinking more of. :fish and wildlife than we do' about. people. _ Our position.. is this "..we •believe that there are 'many r" many:'people, who ;areitally: concerned. about fish. and wildlife. {Mr.' .Tarramino spoke at some length -on the ;beauties: of: nature . and how, the,"early. settlers appreciated ,the •landXand adapted themselves to He called.' attention�.to the fact .that some �.of our best culture is ,right � t n . around The tendency;.sees obetinhe ,:: o: change everything. .rather than to. live with .it, He felt',_..,the. people,' present:should try.. to obtain a better understandin(g._of- their en373.ronm6tt :." that, they would not be so.'obligated to ,change. it,,unless they were aware..'of :what these changes might .do to all 'the other. living things .that .are ;part of. the community.) "MR. GOLDSMITH: Than. you: Mr.®.; arramino;; We lhave,_liatened: .to these . gentlemen in opposition•to ,this proposal. They Piave had a- half ;hour. I think we'. will devote ,the next. half hour: .to those who are- in .favor.. Do'.we have ..anyone who, wishes:'to speak in -favor:.`of.:-this pro`"ect? , MR® GE -RGE F;. .SCHNE:IDER ' .{Mason Drive1. :Broadwaters . Cover` Cutcho.gue; New'York) : The permit ito -dredge any.-one of-,;these.=creeks is 'not an :easy thing to:-obtain. Departments :o:d- the Federal?: Statej and .County. le'velr Wand we must .cohsider .all of `these agencies. are expert..in their jobs. There. has- been. much: talk about fill .ijn ;this particular projects almost half of the . f.i_ll. is going to go, to a public .works. project along the causeway .to''widen it and eliminate a "dangerou-s. curves, and 'pr.ovide parking. space. At. ,the' : present .tim.e there,, are .si.gns - along' the .west side- of,_that road which :.state,'. "No Parking." - There,' is riot .enough parking, . .It .is proms posed--to build a, new road with:the existing, road a part ofthe .Town Beach. ,This is almost: SO of 'the 'fill. ,The 'other, part :will'b e put on: private property.. It .will.- not inundate, any public lands or' any beautiful areas. ..I live right; on:, - Broadwaters Cove.' I:bought the property because, I ..like;;tYie: area: -I would not advocate ,the dredging`project if g I :thou ht it ,would.]ruin, the area. • " Dredging Broadwaters "Cove„I Etc.- October 18r 1965 " We come in across .,the bar, at' low .tide and anywhere up to 3/4 .tide it, is pretty- much impassable . "people cart their boats across. People who. own inboard boats are paying taxes .on waterfront property and paying for dockage- facilities in New Suffolk, - We talk about compromise. : I .think the people in. favor have com" promised.,. These kqQDM channels should be "dug 100 'feet." We have com-;, -promised to about' 75 feet...., 'the limit -of their working ability. The engineers changed." the plan and now .the proposed.-channel, will run through the existing channel -there is very little marsh land being, taken out. It is really digging out !:a ,channel'-that has always been there.' ' ' One thing has not .been menttioned here 'tonigYit ." people are concerned with taxes going 'up. If taxes go up*-,, it is not ,becau:se of dredging. Taxes go up. because of an increase in' value® We all bUy property in the' .hope it will.:go up .in value. This year Nassau . Point was .raised, and there had- been no dredging., I Id like Mr, Thomsen to come up with .a map he has MR. .EDWA.RD. THOMSEN., Mason. Driver, .Cutchogue:'" .(Mr,, Thomsen. presented a map of the area in question .and asked that 'it' be'- returned to him when the Trustees' no longer .had .need of- it:,) .'JMiis Committee .for .the Improve- ment of Waterways, which. was. formed:has -receivedX signatures in "excess of 100 'in favor of this dredging. These p..eople. all.have property on the ' water or -deeded rights. On-* this' map it shows -in red owners in favor. of this project.. All. .in red .are . the people in favor. of this dredging. The majori��, have certainly :given this,' a .lot .of thought in .the past 10 years and they can: say we .nsed it;, - The ,Board of ,TLrustees -will -realize this. .Mr. Milovitchj'. Army Engineer has stated that'--they do not give permits out unless 'they are 'ok"d by. the''Fish and Wildlife Service. They. pre- sented letteis . in favor of dredging. . The .Or.iginals were given to the Army. Engineers' in New York and sent'-to Washington. These are photo static copies® MR•. GOLDSMITH:. Thank_ you.:, . Mr.X Thomsen.. Anyone -else? MR,. BOB .REHM- Park'- Commissioner of. New .SLuffolk and Cutchogue: I would mention, that the Park :Commission' is definitely for this dredging. We are mainly, for. it because of.::the .Park District" The property on the Causeway is going to be a road,. The existing road' is to be' a parking lot. Itis crowded during the. summer itis dangerous" to children definitely, a hazard to' the­kids. ' As 'far ,as the area is concerned, ,-it , isn=t marsh., . I agree with .Dr.' Murphy here -y it should :be bulkheaded we are in favor ;of ita - DR. MURPHY: I would -like to .see it bulkheaded.. . MRi. REHM: People are coming:from the ._outside how can you stop it?- How are you going :to ..stop ' it on: a beach two feet .off -the road? When-the -new `road -comes through there. can be a. fence with one .entrance , in there. One guard will .take care of th.e ..people -who want to use that beach. MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you; , Mr.' Rehm.. Anyone, else for?, . Dredging Broadwatbrs •Cover Etc 9 .�6.. October. 18 .;1965. - �. 4 COMMANDER CANIFF f New. Suffolk s'. I .don't' propose, to. know ,anything about ksland resources' brut 1 am '.aXmember of the'; Oeeanagraphi:c Founda. tion.and .1, have .been.'reading in their. publication' .over the last :two. ^ years about-what's: happening'' to o.ur:.:creeks and saltlmarshes and'. most of it has "been that they,are being stagnated by the .natural'. erosion of this. coast. . . .The Atlantic -Coas,t is -being `eroded 'about one foot a year, In -any :'case- in ,Broadwaters: Cove 'thirty years ago there was s'ix feet "of water across this same bar -that now has 16 inches., If- the,:salt marshes ' are ..stagnated. it is ]my understanding- that- all wildlife -dies. They can't exist in stagnatfed water. There fore" I 'am' for"-`this .dredging on .the plain basis ,of' our' wildlife: It. seems strange ,to: me. that .the "Conservation Department would.-approve such dredging 'i.f there was going to -be, any 'drastic effect.. on ,wildlife", ' That is.. all, I:have'•to say. MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank _your Mr. " Caniff. We' still have time for those in favor. MR�. WINSTON DAVIDS - BayAe tn to this discussionn : ., g, about to, dredge or not to .dredgei I want, to.'state. that personally :I. will. not-discard .my 40 ._years.`of --experience around the local creeks, Mr. Caniff. just said six;; feet. 'deep in. that'.channel. «-� in. 1931 .1 sailed a :12�ton "sloop up that achannel at-:.half. tide.. .;(Mr..: Davids `then mentioned'- several .other' creeksr,. some of. them ,man.�made- in surrounding .areas , that had, been dredged and .how .the fishing• and clamming had been ' 'mproved rather than depleted.) So I say, again;' .'I. only ask ,that..everybody. apply., common sense to this ]rquesti.on. I thank you.X",, MR®_ GOLDSMITH'• Anyd-ne :.else. -to speak in:. favor?: MR® VINCENT:ANNABEL.I Fleets Neck'- _ Cutchogue: ' I' am in- .favor:of the -dredging." IIwe. 'seen fish' in .Eugenexs. 'Creek :and have.":seen. them: -in Broadwaters.. I..Have seen escallops clams and oysters. that::3re. spoken of` here, They,.are. not i:n,'Eugene'i's Creek today. "Th'ere i s supposed. to be a..sinall s.et of clams 'near the "mouthy but if this isn'1t dredged out'' :in..,the he future these will .die. I. .will, show you. nothing but ,a bunch of dead escallop. sheils--` clams :and oyster shells. : -In., the.-Past .we used .to be able to get a boat in and out. I'm interested in ;boating." There's, no •reason in- ,the world -we cannot: have a channel, This .will not effect.the marsh land on. either side.,;.. The .fill will be used for: two worthwhile -purposes. just a.'channel, down the: middle and' as :Mr..: Caniff .brought up "channel.-;i Tess than- this: 10 inches -at_ a low tidem ' I cans.t get in or out at 'a .-half. tide and, my boat •draws 'only:-two feet` of water. The Town has' approved it the,�Engi:neers. have. approved; ,it:. We are entitled to` i t' . at .this time.. .Thank", you a MR,.. AL 'LEAVETTrl Bay Avenue:' , 1,have .two- two-boats.down there' and . it'l.s imp`ossibl"e _to get in or: out at half-:tide® Other than tha.tr, youcan='t get- through. , I. would`,sugges-t'that• 'they ,put the'.spoil :on- the; road in front of..-my house,. At a.;good :tide. there ..is .a `foot of' .water..in: front of a my, house and nothing -done about,-'it. Thank you,.. MR, GOLDSMITH: "Anyone else for_ 'the. .project"would like to speak? 71 f . - : -+7�, - October Dredging3roadvwa`ters'. Cove Etc 18; :1965 ; YRS. Rom, 'W,"_M7T X Bay:Avenuej,: Cutehogue: My:.=question."is ..al'1 ,"the. dredging h;as been -done around..us from XGreeriport :and" all, .the way beyond us to Mattituck .:Why."are .our particular 'marsh�s". in ,these three creeks in ,question so,.important":'to :wildlife? This: I. cannot .,get,. .."Is" .this. going .to make the "difference- "in- wildlife .on,:this end of "Long Islandl I go',along 'with Mr: ,Leavetts :We' cannot 4et .our 12"foot ,boat with a , ten horsepower"",motor.-acros"s at .a half tide. '" .. :Itis almost "impossible. to get ,out" to the Bay.:at the inlet„ Thank . very much. MR SAL GULT;O East; Creeks: We,have 'heard" about',this meeting going on tonight® .We bought a =piece of"..property'with--'the intention of":doing.. some boating __aiid now 'we have' ourselves .wj.th two boats tied- up. in there . and. cannot..'use .it..:,:"h have a -29-+f9ot :boat:",which :is still died up there. for the last': six ;-,S. 'cannot 'see,Vhe,re this will. hurt. any clams " and escalTop's. . . The only oysters:.T have found in those .creeks I can't- see any 'reason why°"this dreding should not' be .done for" that .pares-, ticuldr reason. " .Thank .you.. MR. :'GOLDSMITH: : Now ladies"-and: gentlemenr" we, have "had a half 'hour on ,each side"-f.or :the e'xpress-ion'. of opinions. for. and-against. thin program.,, We "don=-t want any ":facts left unsaid.. MARTIN;"" Main Road. Cutchogue:,�.I,:raise ,two other que"stions .'relative to th.is' Assue, and one""-which 'I, think is morally .incorrect -» using of taxpayers " money: for "a m noriay:: The other "things is. a question of fresh 'water supply. IZin no experti, but.'I have studied "the."' geography of" Long Island` and "I think it'r,s "in.':danger, if you cut "into clay, 'lands 'that' ar,e- helping,. to hold: in .your " fre'sh--.water supp"ly It`depends on. equal pressure from .the sea and. the, fresh-'water ;(Mr',. -Martin'.mentioned the fact 'that I3appauget Long'-Island j was,•named 'for its ""sweet"."water and that-'now.-you could find :.very little in':H' LUgek-and ,that -Lake" Ronkonkoma is four inches'-lower :today then.::it .was a year'"=ago.) MR,." :GOLDSMITH: Anyone'"else :against the."project?.." :SMR. ,FRED." .BAIL INr-.,;East Road Y Cutchogue: 'After receiving the notice from the" `Army:Engin• .eers "in November j_ i964,r - I .cal'led'" Mr,. Albertson and said"a. "What:"is .the"_purpose "'of-,.this' "Mr'e :Albertson?" He said; "'This is to improve the economy: of -our'' Town. .We "would ,like to "open. this"up to make "it kind:.-`of --an invitation' to people who: would':'"like to come in there and" own 'waterfront property:Q Incidentally,, I find.`myself "somewhat in opposition because I, didn t come" down•-her..' ,for .economy:; I ,came down to" get, .away from econoinym (Mr." Baldwin then read;:a .letter dated.March.' l0 j 196:5 j which he;.wrote to':"Mr. Alvah'Goldsmith stating his reasons-"for. opposj.tion 'to this• plan;,".namely"-that- both sides .ought: to, reexamine the. whole matter' using" aess, emotion " anal .to. make sure that scientific study , has justifi"ed :the" proposed :dredging.•} Thank'.you very much. MR« PAUL ,$TOUTENBERGs :Bay.,Av6n'uei Cutchoguec First"I we "speak of some " very :Xffine dredging; operations. that have -been'.undertaken.' ° Look a little -:closer -.at `some.'.dredging,. operations -4, Corey' Creek. - . The result'-» "I have some photographs .and _ .think .there are people 'in :the audience who back me up because of` the .prop.lem `that -arose- and the problem 'is "� "mud Dredging Broadwaters Cove, Etc. P»8• October 1841 1965 .flats that have evolved. I hope you all think well of this because should you go into this thing in a large scale. and the water drains Koff as Dr. Murphy has said- you will have mud flats and here is the proof right here. The proof is in. Corey Creek. I have two letters from people in that area who have spent *2-7.00 of their own- money do eliminate some of these mud flats. With your-.permission I would like to use the chalk board.. 1(Mr. Stoutenberg then drew a diagram of the creek area to be dredged and"what it would look like after the alleged mud flats had appeared. ) Now- how do you get out to the 'channel? A man .says he*ll dredge. He asks for a permit to dredge. We have- a, way to eliminate this problem. -- We now have ourselves a harbor. -It now appears that we have changed what many people have come here to live for. I ask you to consider these things. .You have a map that shows in red the property owners along the creek that approve - -what .about the Town people? it"s just as much theirs along the creek. This project will run from -four to six months. This dredge runs S$10-000 a week;. one month; $60-000; six months — ,figure it out � $160 j:000 -- for who? The red people? Think this over" people; because once you go ahead and dredge you can't fill back in. Now, the park this might be worthy of some thought. But, on -your map if this" was the real intent you could get all the fill you .wanted out in the Bay to, remove this bar. The real thing is " do you want this _ you can get it out in the Bay here. IMK Why not? Because there is an ulterior motive of people who live at the end of lMud Creek. Who has . spent more time in the Creek than - I have, " one week ago I went eeling and found the greatest supply of small weak fish I have ever seen. This is all I have to say. FELIX DOROSKI: I just, want' to say a couple of -words.- Two and . a halfXyears ago you can't get in there -- it's mud- no eels; crabs or nothing. Thank you. MR. CLAUDE HOLBRA EQUE'. Bay Avenue: (Went to the chalk board and pointed' to the drawing done by the previous speaker.) .Rh.is is a very nice drawing- but I guess we could do it all over and. eliminate the mud flats. If you take lthe ,chan.nel like 'this- the- water will tend to- bring the hlud in .and, draw' .it back I think. .MR. ANDREW HALL- Broadwaters. Road: I haven't -been here as long as many people wave. I'm very much against -the dredging because I came out here to 'a beautiful 'place. However, .i do want to say that -some statements have been made that I- don't think are true. The Fish and Wildlife. — I don't think they have approved this- have they? Mr. Dowell have -the Fish and Wildlife approved this? MR. DOWEL: The Fish and ;$Wildlife Service is not against dredging but we should use common sense and we recommended that this dredging only be done if these conditions were made which I read before. I would like to make .one point clear-. with regard to dredging projects'z that the Army Engineers do not listen to uslmany times. They do not honor our request that a dredging permit not be put through. Dredging Broadwaters. Cover Etc. --9- October. 18. 1965 MR;. HALL: Another thing people have suggested putrification. I don't see there is any putrification. I would.-like to ask some of the experts here .to substantiate this if I.lmay.. MR. GOLDSMITH: I don't think - these gentlemen are here to discuss this. They are in favor within' limits. I don't think it's fair to call .on them and I'.m not going to permit it. MR. HALL: Mr. Caniff .suggested' that the water - is receding here and this will lead to a kind of putrification and I think this should be challenged because .I.tOCU= think it is vital. to the dredging and most of us who oppose it :are. not opposed to removing the sand bar and opening up the-'mouth-- we do want it modified,; but I don't see any evidence of. any kind -of putrification .a-long the way.' MRS. MULLER: Please„ come along the creeks at low tide. MR.. ;STOUTENBERG: According to the New York State DLepartment .of Health which possesses a' map using . their specifications in Mud' Creek it ' states_ marsh, •land, natural-drainage, etc, - S.A. S.A. is the very best - according, to the DLepartment of Health. MR. JACK PHILLIPS, Beebe Drive: 'This part on the bent in Mud Creek. I don't know if Paul Stou.tenberg has tried it but the cabbage in there is very h,igh .in the summer and very smelly. There are no clams at that end of the creek. Those clams die in the winter- time. - (Showed on thelmap .where clams are located.) As far ' as the . Board of Health is concerned .- my well. had to be forty feet down along. that Creek. . The Board of Health toldlme I had to put lmy well down forty feet. I did. . We 'ended .pulling. our =wells up again to thirteen_ feet because the water M which the Board of..Health said was down there isn't fit to drink. I think therels :something wrong with this outfit somewhere. MRS�. BA.RSTAOW: I am President of the Conservation .Assolciar tion of Long Islandp • -One argument seems not to be brought up at all. We conservationists are "in this-work for love of the land and for love of -our people; for love of the food, and for love of beauty. Most --of. those who want the. dredging are in. loveX with the money in their -pockets. Now, which of ,those arguments is the greater? MR. , MC KEGNEY:k I would like. first to compliment the Trustees in the excellent orderly-way in which ..they have conducted this hearing. I have had- forty years in this work .and I have- never- seen such :a dignir fied- meeting. Since you have the power, then you can adopt the 'arty's suggestion who said lets investigate, get the facts. first and then make your decision .- that would .be the- proper... sensible- approach. The dredging can -wait. The destruction, cannota wait. Today is ,the ]day of compromise. Perhaps- you can Rgive your permission to a smaller dredge. Just because they have a big dredge,' ..do they 'have to use it. Now; perhaps what they want to accomplish can be' accomplished with a smaller., dredge, or dredging operation. In' the meantime] you can continue your scientific.'investigation. X - If -these things then prove truer you can stop any further 'dredging. Thank you. Dredging Broadwaters Cove- Etc. , -,10-» October "18. 1965 MR. K T.T.FR�, BayAVenue- Cutchogue: I dont" claim to be an expert of anything; -but we have conservationists and .people who are experts - telling us we must not give up the salt marsh. On the -other hand- we have reports of experts- of experts on the Federal level giving .per— mission all down the line — itis a case of. the .right hand -not letting. the left hand know what's going on. Now. if it's 'wrong it's wrong .y if itls 'righti it's right. I'm no Philadelphia lawyer or New York. lawyer. I: came to listen as.-our people in this community do this type of meeting'* school meeting ,r. we -listen '"to each other and try to work for each .other"s good, Beware of the man who comes too':well . armed. MR. WILLIA.M BEEBEal Cutchogue: I've listened to -this whole procedure tonight and . I am in favof , of the dredging. , . It -seems."as. though almost everybody gets - up for the opposition -» .part agrees that some . dredging has to be done in these creeks. Most of them have lived,.here as long as I have. I think it'.s.'necessary that,.these creeks. be opened up. You can- say we have changed the waterways which I think is good and for us .land people "on.'these creeks- and .other,s in ,the Town -» the . whole Town should have the "benefit of these .creeks. ' They have a right to go down there and go clamming or "eeling and- whatever they want tb do. It's to their benefit to be .-opened .upt "too. That's all I have to say. Thank, you. MR. GOLDSMITH: Anyone else like to .be heard? MR. DAVIDS:X On this great cost of dreding. I would like to. say that the two dredges*, :the N.issequogue' and -the "Sh,i.nnecockf runs ' every..day. They belong to the County., they "are running .and .have. been running ever since they have been' put in. use. ' Whether or not they dredgge Broadwaters Creek- the cost .of those dredges will go on, So far,- I don't believe there has been any two"months" period since they have those dredges I would say that for an extra cost of $25.00 for'.fuel; we 'll have Broadwaters Creek dredged instead of .having them lay idle somewheres up west. '- -Thank you. MR. GOLDSMITH: I would like to ,say that apparently from some of the arguments we have heard 'as-".-Trustees,, 'there are a lot" of: people that water does not. seek its own level .in these creeks. When we have ex—, tremes- either high or low- the people in -the creeks are .going "to know it. Anyone else "like to be heard before we adjourn this meeting? MR& Ll. .EDWARD ROSS-: Strohson Road: I am ,a :lover of natural" beauty and we think -today this natural beauty is - just "disappearing all over the land. What ,are. our children going to see in the years to come a creek with beautiful mar'shX grass? It'll be like 'a harbor''with the siding up. But that's. a minor thing.." We love the birds and. 1 wan.t .to tell you just last week twice we have seven. swans- at the foot of our dock- . we have. countless black ducks and all along our shore we can. get numerous clams. ' We have been here for 30 years. We came because "we love the natural beauty and 'God gave us this beauty and all over America today it's fast disappearing and I want to say that I. am glad that I was born when I was born because . I. have seen America the Beautiful. "Dreging Broadwaters Covey Etc. ' October 18'z 1965 MR, GOLDSMITH: Thank 'your.- Mrs. Ross., We .will thank,;you people for coming. - -I'm sure it's been interesting to everyone..,,, MR,, JOHN E.- TIMPSON; Bay Avenue, Cutchogue: , Some remarks have been 'made about if these` creeks were- dredged, how we; would have .these mud flats. I don'xt doubt perhaps there will.-be, some mud flats. I would like to. ask .Mr., Evans if we just,,opened, that ,inlet and dons.t•, do any dredging?; won't we .still have the mud :flats? (Mr. Barney. Evans- Army Engineers signified' that this' was correct.)- . 1 would like to have. that show on. the record .that Mra Evdnsa the engineer . claims we will have .them if we just ,open :the inlet.. We must •open .the inlet, MRS. MURR&Yxl Nassau Points - I would just like to, ask if. :a good strong, hurricane wont, undo. ;all that work that' .the, dredge is going to do? MR.-' GOLDSMITH: I hope we never .see.'another hurricane because God• knows what it will '.d0. (" MR. STOOTENBERG:- '.'Someone had said here that-.we' were for:" this dredging. . Originally, :we,,were., against it completely. -- we have been . giving .and giving and• compromising — ,.and the. Federal and State -people -- the thing• I think that is most•, important is to :have facts as stated before.- -The .County,has `just.put in a Cedar Beach area-, .one of the first projects on it will. be Xthe study of the results of dredging. It_:isnTt .that far away to wait. and' see .what that study,'will be. '. (At this point- an unidentified' gentleman in the audience moved that the meeting be adjourned •.arid complimented the gBoard of Trustees on their conducting of. the meeting, and also .asked, that the 3%Board of Trustees in' turn compliment the -orderliness 'of ,the audience.. • Mr.. Goldsmith concufred, and -the- meeting was 'adjourned 'at ;9:05 .P.M.)