HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/14/1966 V, Southold Town Planning Boar
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S O UTH O LD, L. I., N: Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
Archibald Young
William Unkelbach
M I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD TOWN 'PLANNING BOARD
June 14, 1966
A regular meeting of the' Southold Town Planning 'Board was
held at 7:30 P.M , Tuesday,, June 14s 1966, at the Town Offices
Main' Roads Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John.Wickhams Chairman..
Henry Moisas Alfred Grebe, Archibald Youngs William
Unkelbach.
' Also present: Rod Van Tuyl, Consultant; • Lawrence TuthillsP.E. ;
Howard Terry, Building Inspector.
THE CHAIRMAN: I will open themeeting at this time. The
first- thing on the docket is Harbor-Lights Estates,. at Bayview.
Mr. Reese is here and we have discussed this several times. We
have the approval of the highway layout -signed by the' Superintendent
of Highwayss dated March 29, 1966. We had some correspondence
w ith. the attorney on this. He was as cooperative as I would likes
but the Town Board has changed some of their thinking so I don't
know if this is so impowtant any more. How are you fixed with
the "County Board of Health?
MR. REESE: `We are pretty well squared away.
MR. ROD VAN TUYL: We have a preliminary map on-Section III.
of this subdivision which I believe Mr.- Reese would like to get
tentative or preliminary approval on it.
n
- Southold Town Planning Board -2- June' 14., 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: '_.Mets take care of Section I1 first. - As
I recall the real .'thing was the park- and playground and the
beach front.
ROD- VAN TUYL: I think there is some change in Section III
fron the overall plan.
The Board viewed and dis.cussed the overall plan of the
subdivision.
THE-CHAIRMAN: Section II, is just- the six lots right there.
MR. REESE: You mayr, /be interested in the amount of' area
set aside for' Park and Playground area.
THE CHAIRMAN: is it- your thinking that this area set
aside for' k�:park will be for ' Sections I,, IIz. and III,. and
any additional sections?
MR.- REESE: That four or five acres on Section III should
takecare- of the whole thing.
HOWARD TERRY: The beach area w ill .be open. to all sections?
MR. REESE: Yes.
THE' CHAIRMAN: The beach area ought to be on one of the
maps.
MR. REESE. I think we have indicated on the covenants
that this right is a:clirrevocable.
THE CHAIRMAN: It' still should show on the map.
Nat. YOUNG: What is this pond and park swamp? Is that-in
addition to the other park area?
MR,' REESE: That is extra area in addition to this.
A general discussion was.:held on the total number of 'lots
in all sections of Harbor 'Lights" Estates. It was dOAermined
that there areapproximately 150 lots.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have two pieces of business to take care
of here. First to approve this Section IIl consisting of 'six
lots for a hearing. For that we would require a letter, of
intent on this park. I- think we have done this before with you.
i
Southold Town Planning Board -3- June 14., 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: Your letter. should state that the .park.
i
area will be made available with the filing of Section III,
of Harbor'Lights.
On motion by Mr. Grebes seconded by'Mr. Moisa, it- was
RESOLVED that the' Southold Town' Planning Board set
8: 45 - p.-M , .Tuesday, July, 12, 1966, at the Town Office,.
Main Road, Southold,, New York, as the time and place of
hearing upon the question of .approval of the following
plat: Plat of property. owned by Harold and Frederick
Resse, entitled Harbor' Lights Estates,- Sectio 11'r
at-Bayview, consisting of a parcel of land5ffacres,,
situated at Southold, in the Town of Southold,,- Suffolk
County, New York, bounded and describes as follows:
;(See paged for legal description. )
Vote of the .Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr.- Moisas Mr.
Grebe, Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
THE CHAIRMAN: Now,. we have an' application for preliminary
approval on Section III of the same developments showing
four acres in park' and playground. The lots are all mininum
size or more. Where are we on the highways.
MR. REESE: The road that goes through here was approved
with Section I.
THE CHAIRMAN: The highway in effect has been approved
for ' Section III, and the bond covers it.
MR. YOUNG: One lot on North Bayview road has been sold.
Has this been approved?
MR. RENSE: Yes, that is a farm house.
On motion by Mr. Moisa,, seconded by'Mr. Young,.it was
RESOLVED that preliminary approval be granted to the
subdivision to be known as Harbor 'Lights Estates,- Section III,
located at Bayviews in the Town of Southoldr- Suffolk, County,
New Yorka, consisting of 22. 94 acres,, map by Otto Van Tuyl and
Son, dated April 7,, 1966.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham$ Mr. Moisas Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young, . Mr. Unkelbach.
• Planning
Nouthold Town/Board -4- June 14, 1966
THE' CHAIRMAN: There is one other thing I feel we should
tell you. The Town Board actually does not-know what -they
want in the form of park and playground. . We have been- in the ,
position of `having required certain things and the Town has
been unwilling to take them over. Just -what - the disposal of
this . park' and playground is going to be I. can't- tell you at
this time. It is probable that you will have to maintain
it yourself, or set it up so that it.will be maintained by
the home owners. - Another thing to tell all you Gentlemen,
the' Planning Board, if i have anything to -do with it, The
Planning Board is going to work slower and more carefully.
One basic •.reason is that the Planning-'Consultant wishes to
amend our' Zoning Ordinance and the Rules and Regulations for
the' Subdivision of--Lands but they do not-wish to do this
. for a few more months and the Planning Board is going to
drag it's feet. We don't approve very many subdivisions
for hearings between now and the time the amendments are
made. In this case the application has been in for ' s.ix months.
For, any new subdivisions or new sections we are going.to
go slower and be more zonsiderate. Some Townts in the- Western
part of the County take as. lnng ' as two years to. push a sub-
division through. . We don't-plan on taking quite that long.
(Mr. Reese asked what the Planning 'Consultant's suggestion
was. The Chairman advised Mr. Reese and others present of
the critical water situation in certain' areas of Southold Town. )
The next item to come before the Planning Board was the
subdivision of'Daniel T. ,, George Herebe;t and'William-B.
Smith, consisting. of .a parcel of land 19.4 acres, situated
at Southold`. in the Town of- Southold, Suffolk Coun'tme. New
York. Mr.. William B.-Smith appeared before the Board in
regard to this subdivision.
_ WILLIAM SMITH: I was going to ask for ' another postponement
because we have not been able to come toany 'agreement.
THE CHAIRMAN: George- wells was down to see me. The first
thing I told him was that the Planning Board was nctgoing to
approve any canal up here. We were interested in having , a
private project on private land and puting a low dike across
and would he be interested. He seems very much interested.
They 'are prepared to , give the Town the right to put up a
low':dike on the property on an easement basis, that-they will
accept any right of way'' you want to put down there,, but they
1
Southold Town Planning Board -5- June 14,, 1966
feel, and I feel,, :that the Town has got to have- some- access toy
this low dike. Theyhave to service it. If this is going to
be Town .property or Town easement, they have got. to have
access to it. There is one other thing that- I would like to
have this . connection .go to salt water and in just thinking
of 'it,, this comes in further than want is drawn here. If
your put a 50 foot- road in there and put the dike right .
accross there,, I don't think you would have to worry about
a 100 foot turn around because it-will be- on Town easement
property. �I also suggested that the Town. might do the
survey.,, but in any case if. this was done.,,, they. would forget
about the right-of-way. Nowe how would you feel about ths?
'WILLIAM,-SMITH: I don't think this would affect us a great
deal.
THE CHAIRMAN: You would have more water- front if the
dike was put- across . You can do what they want to do and
still have some very .v.aluable lots. I-would want to see the
map of the meadow. I think that everyone would profit from
such a pvoject. It's obvious the Planning .Board has got to
speak to the- Town Board,, and I think they will accept. Our
water engineer says we ought to do this. Do you have any
objection to this?
WILLIAM SMITH: Not particularly.
THE CHAIRMAN: It looks to me everyone will gain from this.
,(Mr. Smith asked if they. could start roughing in the roads.
The' Chairman' stated that they had been- given tentative approval
on this subdivision and this would include the roads. The Board
and Mr. Smith, dis"cuseed having M. Lawrence. Ttitthill PE._ •go
with Mr. .Smith to look at, this meadow and advise the Planning
Board as to the best- location 'for the proposed dike.
- On motion by Mr. Young, seconded by Mr. Moisa,. it was
RESOLVED- That the' Southold Town Planning Board request
Mr Lawrence. Tuthill to look the meadow situation over in the
subdivision. to be developed byDaniel T. , George Herbed' and
William B.-Smith,, and report back to the z,Planning .Board.advis1ng
them .the best possible location for the proposed dike to be
located.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr.Grebe,
Mr.- Young., Mr. Unkelbach.
` Southold Town Planning Board -6- June 14, 1966
Mr. Hamdsch, and two associates, appeared before the
Board with a ,preliminary map of. land to be developed by 'Southi
Fork-Development'Corp. The property in question. is generally .
described. as being bounded north by Main Bayview Road, east
by land formerly. of Betsie Clark and land formerly of
David Griswold, south by.'Corey."Creek, west .by land of St.
Patrick's R.C.. Church. The subdivision plag consisted: of
some. 30 lots. The map shows a creek -gitter' which the applicants
intend to dredge and create a man made canal.
MR. 'HAMDSCH: We have the- Town Trustees permission to. put
the channel into this part of the property. . The only objective
we have had is the Board of Health . is' making us, move these
lots to the upland area in .oj:�rzer to get-wells and cesspools.
THE CHAIRMAN: You may have a problem. You may have a
permit from the-"Town Trustees to dredge that- gutter. You
have got a more important bridge to cross. We will - not
approve a subdivision, at. least-we have not approved lately,
a subdivision where sit t water is cut up into the land.
MR. HAMDSCH; This gutter was already cut in here.
THE,CHAIRMAN: We are not prepared .to approve any
subdivisions where a canal will be deepened. You have a
long way to go. it simply isn't possible to dredge and
cut salt water up into land. The Planning Board does not
- take light- veiw of ' this, we take a very serious view of this.
We have amended our' Rules and Regulations for the subdivision
of land to require you to get approval of any subdivision
for a man made canal. In this case that was just-up here,
they wanted to do the same thing and are ending up by putting_
a dike across there.
MR. UNKELBACH: Salt water is a serious problem for
this Town right now.
THE- CHAIRMAN: The' County Board of Health .has given us
and lot owners notice of the salt problem ril}ht in, the
choice residential sections of the Town. The� Planning Board
tkaes . a very serious view on this.
MR. HAMDSCH: This is something we were not aware of.
THE-CHAIRMAN: It is in the rules and regulations for
the Subdivision. of'Land.
Southold Town- Planning Board -7- June 14, 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: If you are going to do any filling you have
got to make a cut to get fill and this means you are dredging.
Actually, I don't know when you got the approval from the Town
Trustees,,-. because they told us that they were going. to be very
careful about giving any permits. We also assured they that
we were going to be more than careful granting any subdivisions
on this. This is a very real problem.
MR® HAMDSCH: How is the rest of the layout outside of that?
MR® MOISA: You want to change the layout if the Board of
Health doesn't approve of these lots down on themeadow.
MR. HADMSCH: We will have to conform .to whatever the
Board of Health requires.
MR® UNKELBACH: The fact that the Board of Health requires
you to move these lots on the upland should have given you
an inclination that. there was a water problem here.
MR. YOUNG: Did the Town Trustees as aAQ0M body give
you permission for this, or did' you seek &ut one member?
MR.' HAMDSCH: We were represented at- a meeting.
THE'CHAIRMAN: It seems to me that-we would get' a letter
from them stating what there action was in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We paid the fee.
MR. YOUNG-.. We have got a letter from them before. I
don't think we should give any preliminary approval until we
see something in writing. I certainly won't go along with
preliminary approval on what you brought in here tonight.
MR. UNKELBACH: Did you have an attorney represent- you
before the Trustees.
MR. HAMDSCH: It-was part of the deal when we bought this
land that we could do this.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They sent us a bill for the fee
for the permit.
MR. UNKELBACH: That doesn't -mean it was approved.
Southold Town Planning Board -8- June 14, 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: By moving the lots on the upland you would
only be losing three lots.
MR. HAMDSCH: I don't think this layout would uphold with
the Board ofHealth anyway.
THE' CHAIRMAN: It may that the Trustees felt that in
view of , the fact the creek has been deepened and dredged, they
granted permission. I suggest that you let us get in touch
with them and by that time you will know more about the Board
of- Health and we will know more about how the trustees feel.
I guarantee nothing. There is always the possibility of some
compromoose.
MR. YOUNG: Maybe we should get in touch with Mr. Whitlock
and find out if he has gotten into more detail about these
areas that he has earmarked "bad", and this is one of them.
We don't -want to go against an engineer who we are paying.
THE' CHAIRMAN: Howard, is there any possibility of watermains
down Main Bayview Road?
HOWARD TERRY: it depends on how many more applications
we get down there.
MR: HEMOSCH: Would the rest of this layout be okay up
to this water part?
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't see anything else wrong with it.
However, don't go. cutting any roads through yet.
(It was agreed that Mr.. Hemdsch would be notified of the
time ' and date of the next-Planning 'Board meeting. )
' Mr. William Niles appeared before the Board on behald of
Home' Exchange, Corp. , . for a change of zone from "A" Residential
and, Agricultural District to "B-2" Business District- on certain
real property situated at-Mattituck, In the Town of Southold,
- Suffolk -County, New York, and more particularly bounded and
described as follows:
Southold Town Planning Board .-9- June '14t, 1966
BEGINNING at a- point on the southwesterly ,side of Wickham
'Avenue at the northeasterly corner of'Ruland;: -running thece
along said last mentioned land south 470 383 west- 236 feet;
running- thence south 430 129, 20" west 88.40 feet; thence south
° 19' 30" east 106. 92 feet;. thence south 43°
43 121 20" west
200 feet to the northeasterly side of-.Maiden'Lane; running
thence along the northeasterly side of Maiden' Lane north, 480
57 ' 30" west 307 feet to the mean highwater mark of 'Mattituck
Creek;. thence along said mean highwater line in' a northerly
and northeasterly direction approximately 500 feet- to land of
Williams; running. thence south 440 113 east '2.20 feet; running
still along said land of Williams north 470 38' east 101.34
feet . to the southwesterly side of-Wickham -Avenue; thence along
said line of.�Wickham Avenue south 390 078 20" east-:49.58.. feet
to the point- or ,place 'of beginning.
THE CHAIRMAN: One of the reasons we asked that- you be
here is that'Mr. Reeve had been here talking about this. We
wanted to see if we could widen Maiden' Lane. to have access
here.. The next thing we knew. we had this application -from
you.
MR. NILES:_ When we took this property over: we plan to
dedicate this property and Mr. Reeve indicated that the Town
wad interested in getting an additional 16 feett .that-was
in addition to Maiden' Lanes. As it stands now it is privately
owned by. theYnme owners on the other' side so that they didn't
know if this would come to pass.
TEE �CHAIRMAN: The problem is now,, what about access?
MRO NILES: We weren't planning to, make that a street.
- THE CHAIRMAN: We might require you to make it a street.
We are interested in getting business development here. We
think this. is business proj3Ecty.
MR.- NILES: He were in hopes that when:we went to the. .
Town Board that they would say-Maiden Lane would be- a Town road.
THE, CHAIRMAN: I don=t think this Town has ever condemned
property for-highway useage.
MR. NILES:' I was not thwcing'�in. terms of condemnation.
I. thought, that they would acquire Maiddn'Lane. I am trying
to answer you questions. We will have to apply to the county
i-n make Curb cuts. We want to divide this frontage -in half.
Southold Town' Planning Board -10 LTune '14,,, 1966
MR.' YOUNG:- Do you .plan to develope tht all in- business?
MRO NILES: This front part. is. all .bus.iness. The land.
,Xapplicat on is fora "B-2'' Business'Distr'idt. That-will .be
for a marina. .
THE.- CHAIRMAN: I was thinking it=might-.make. sense to have
one curb cut here and another one here ((pbinting, to map) so
that you .will not disrupt traffic flow to badly on. .the main
highway,
. . ,.(Proposed curb cuts,,, traffic flow on .the property,.
and entrance .and exit: to the property was discussed at some
lenght. It was thought that perhaps there should be one ways
traffic,on the .property in question. . Curb :cuts adjacent to
this.. property were also c1scussed. Mr. Niles stated that the
property under discussion carries a right -of way over- Maiden
Lane. He .stated.he would try, talking,. to the people who
own: Maiden.Lane- and see if some arrangemerit could be- worked
out. )
william'Chudiak." appeared before- the:: Planning Board for
an informal. discussion. He has property .on the west side of
Cox'Neck"..Road. He would like to dedicate the road .going
through this property to the Town of Southold. He would
also like to dedicate a dry-well to the. Town. on this property:
THE CHAIRMAN: These lots- are too small.
. WILLIAM CHUDIAK: They are 12..500 square feet.
THE CHAIRMAN: On the highway this is fine.
mx,� Chudiak- explained that- the .people who want to buy
these lots are buying all the w.ay through the next 'lot in back.
Actually it is two lots. Mr. Unkelbach advised that- these- lots
should show. as one lot. )
THE-,CHAIRMAN: Anyone. that buys one- lot= clear through can
only build one house on it. This has got- to be spelled out
very. clearly.. You' could 'divide this property into four lots
and you would not have to file a map.
. Mr.-. Chudiak`pointed `to the- map of: the property in-- question
and again explained how the lots were layed out.
Southold-Town'-Planning Board -11- June 14, 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: If you file a subdivision map it is, going
to take some six months or more and cost-,you. money. . We will
approve access on four' lots,, but for five -or-more lots you
have got: to file a map. We .are in a position that-we have
got to say to your either file a map, get- test holes, etc. ,
and how many lots will you have. Only- 6 lots.
WILLIAM CHUDIAK:- I don't want any. narrow road through
there. - Look what happened up at-Camp Mineola.
THE° CHAIRMAN: I agree with .you on 50 foot roads. - What I
am saying is that- you would be' better off to get
approval of' access . and sell four lots'XXXXXX rather than
f-iling. a subdivision map,, taking six months and spending
$18 000.00 .
WILLIAM.CHUDIAK: These lots are -running much deeper
here.. . When they are buying back to back, I don't think
it's fair.
THE CHAIRMAN: in order to file a subdivision map you
will have to make these lots. 20,000 square feet.
t(The' Chairman suggested to Mr.- Chudiak that:he consult
Mr. Van Tuyl and that theyYave a new map. drawn up.)
The� Plannig Board received from the Town Board the
original petition of Casbore Inc. ,. fora change of zone
from "A" -Residential and Agricultural District ta11B-2"
Business'District on certain real property situated at
Mattituck, in the Town of Southoldi- Suffolk- County,. New
York, and more particularly bounded and described as
follows: BEGINNIN(J' at a monument on the nottherly- side
of the Main .Road at- the southeasterly -corner - of the
premises herein described and the southwesterly corner
of land now or formerly of Wilson, from said point of
beginning running along said land now or fomm.erly of Wilson,
North 240. 04' 20" West a distance of 711..70 feet- to a
monument and- land of-Long-Island Railroad; running "thence
along said land of- Long Island Railroad#; south 44 ' 43' 50"
West a distance of 316.89 feet to land now or formerly of
Wilsbergr formerly. of James Young;. running thence along
said land now or formerly.:of Wilsbergr two courses and
distances: (1) south 210 56' 20" East 418.11 feet; thence
Southold Town' Planning Board -12- June 14... 1966
(2) South 210 17' 20" East a distance of 282.60 feet: to
a- *X monument on the northerly side of the -Main' Road; running-
thence along the northerly side of the Main Road,, North 480
208 10F East a distance of 340.70 feet to the monument at the
point- or place of'beginning.
The Planning' Board discussed the proposed change of
zone.
On motion by"Mr. Unkelbach,, seconded by Mr. Moisa,, it was
RESOLVED that - the' Southold Town Planning Board. does
not recommend.to the' Southold Town Board the change of zone
from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B-2" -
Business District.on `the property described herein before.
The Planning Board .feels that this particular change of
zone would constitute:spot zoning. The .Board points out that
Murphy's Garden� Centerr across the street from .the property
in question,, is not zoned business. The Board further. points
out that there is no business zones in the immediate adjoining
vicinity.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-- Mr. Wickhamr Mr. Moisa.. Mr.
Grebe,,.. Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
The Planning Board received from .the Superintendent of
Hikjhways.., Mr. Raymond Deant, final approval . of the roads in
the subdivision to be known as` Sterling Homes. The Chairman
felt- that the' Planning Board should h.ave.Mr. Lawrence Tuthill
inspect these roads before the" Chairman digns the final maps.
On motion .by Mr.- Unkelbach.. s-econded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that Mr. Lawrence Tuthill...- PaE be asked to
inspect the roads in the subdivision to be known ,as Sterling
Homes, and
BE IT ' FURTHER RESOLVED that- the Chairman of 'the' Southold
Town' Planning Board be authorized to sign the final maps on
Sterling Homes if Lawrence Tuthill's report is favorable.
Vote of the .Board: Ayes:- Mr.. Wickham, Mr. Moisa,, Mr.
Grebe, Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach .
i
Southold Town' Planning Board -13- June 14, 1966
On. motion by 'M i Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it- was
,,:RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold TownPlanning
Board dated May 3, 1966, be approved as _submittedr. 'and that .
the notation be made that- Mr. Grebe was on vacation at the
the time of the' May 3. 1966 meeting.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: %- Mr.. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr.
Grebe, Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
The next regular meeting of ' the- Southold Town' Planning
Board .will be held at 7:30 P.M. (E.D.S..T.) , Tuesday, July -12,
1966, at the Town Office,. Main Road,- Southold, New York.
The meeting, was adjourned at 10:15, P.M.
Respectfully submitted,,,
Barbara C. Dittmann, Secretary
J•OHN WICKHAKri CHAIRMAN
Southold Town Planning .Board -14- June 14, 1966
I
i
' Legal description of Harbor-Lights, Section II:
BEGINNING ' at' a point on the westerly line of-Windjammer
'Drive, 310.83. feet- northerly along said westerly line from
Anchor.'Lane said point- of beginning_ being the northeasterly
corner of .lot 10, as shown on' "Map of Harbor'Lights' Estates,
Section I",,, filed in the' Suffolk-County, Clerk's" office' as map
#4362;. from said point.- of 'be.ginning -running along said lot 10
and along land of Frederick and Harold Reese, N. 640 05 ' 10" W.-
365.42 feet; thence along said land of Reese, four courses:
,'(1) N.. 200 123 20" E.- 251.25 feet;: thence
.(2) N. 25° 54' 5 0" E.- 300. 0 feet;. thence
(.3) S. 64' 05' 10" E.- 600. 0 feet; thence
;,(4) S. 25 C 54' 50" W.- 200.0 feet to the northerly line
of Harbor'Lights Drive; thence along said northerly line,
N. 640 05' loll W.- 200.0 feet; thence across said Harbor
Lights Drive and along said westerly line of-Win4ammer'Drive,
S. 250 54' 50" W.- 333.40 feet; thence along. said westerly
line of'Windjammer Drive, S. 550 54' 50"' W,- 19.17 feet to
the point-. of beginning. Containing 5.895 acres.