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Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Moisa.
Alfred Grebe
Archibald Young
William Unkelbach
M I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
March lt. 1966
A regular meeting of the Southold Town-'Planning Board
was held at 7:30 P.M.,, Tuesdays March 1, 1966,r , at the Town
Officer Main Road,- Southold,. New York.
There were present: Messrs: Joljn Wickham,_ Chairman,
Henry Moisa, Alfred Grebe,-- Archibald Young, and William
Unkelbach.
- Also Present: Messrs: Rod Van Tuyl.,, Consultant) Howard
Terry, Building Inspector;, Raymond Dean, Superintendent of
Highways.
Mr. Frank Born appeared before the Planning Board to
discuss the park and playground requirements for the sub-
division to be known as "Salt Aire 'Estates", located at
Mattituckr New York. This property is owned and developed
by Casbors Ind.
THE CHAIRMAN: We,k the Planning Board haventt discussed
what would be required for park and playground and we haven't
reached a decision. It's something we canst settle in the
immediate future. We have hope, and there is a case pending
Southold Town' Plann'ing Board -2- March 1,z 1966
the Town Attorney tells us that-may cl&rify -the situation.
There have been several attempts by different Planning Boards
of the State to have a cash equivalent.
MR. BORN: There is a Town 'Park just a block away.
THE CHAIRMAN: It isn't fair to one developerpjust because
he is one block away from an existing parkrnot to have to make
park and playground provisions. This is unrealistic. We can
not act arbitrarily. -. What we could like to do for some of
these developers is to say, letts have a cash equivalent based
on the assessed value of a lot or whatever is is., and put it
where it will do the most good, which we thin7S would be the
public parks or public beaches.
If a cash equivalent deal can not be worked out, the
Planning Board might ask you to put up lot 32 which is next
to the recharge basin for dedication to the Town. Would that
be any hardship?
MR. BORN: It would only be a monetary hardship. None of ;
these lots have been sold yet.
(It was agreed by the Board add Mr. Born that it would be
better tohave a park and playground fund rather than dedicate
land: if this can be worked out,)
MR. YOUNG: We like to get these things ironed out. OUr
decisions are based on what is best for the Town of Southold
and the developer. We have to work together. We can't act
arbitrarily and then in three months change our minds.
MR.' MOISA: perhaps we will have an answer on this park and
playground fund at the ne.eting next Wednesday.
THE CHAIRMAN: Letys . leave it open for awhile. If it does
come down to dedication we will require that lot number 32 be
dedicated. You will have to renumber the lots. The County
Clerk insist that all lots be numbered consecutively.
MR. BORN:. WE WONIT do anything with that lot at the present
time then.
THE CHAIRMAN: When you have the final maps prepared keep
that lot in your name or the cciporation name and it can be sold
by description if not dedicated to the Town.
Southold- Town' Planning Board -3- March' 1t1966
MR* BORN: The final maps have .already been prepared-,-
ROD -VAN TUYL: This is going to foul up the numbering.
Mr. Unkelbach suggedted that the lot ,can retain its
number and there should be put on themap on lot #32 that it
is for possible dedication tothe Town of. Southold. • Either
lot number 31 or lot number 32 can be .set aside by the
developer for possible dedication tothe Town of Southold.
Mr. Born stated that most of the test holes for the
water have been taken. A copy of the new highway specificat�ns
were given to Mr. Born for the construction of the roads.
Mr. Born is to comply to the Highway'Specification of the Town
Of Southold when constructing said roads. The Chairman
advised Mr. Born to check- with the County" Clerk- in regard
to retaining the number on- either lot number 32 or lot number
31 and putting on the map "for possible dedication tothe
Town of Southold". . He also advised Mr. Born that if
everything was in order at -the next .meeting this subdivision
could .be set up for a hearing.
Walter Kappj- Esq.- appeared before the Board in regard
to the application of Frederick Rich:. applying for ah Open
Development Area,
THE CHAIRMAN: We have had .some discussion on this. There
are two good alternatives on this proposal. One alternative
..would be tommake this a one way right of ways, and then have
an entrdce from Boisseau Avenue on this side ;(pointing to map) .
The other alternative might be to move these buildings on this
location. ;(pointing to map)
WALTER KAPF' ESQo: How wide would a one way road have to
be?
THE CHAIRMAN: Twenty feet. , Therother alternative would be
to have it just as it is laid out here and have it two wayr,; but
widen it- to a mininum .of 30 feet. You would have to move your
buildings closer together. I hope you understand thaththis
comes to us for our suggestions and approval and we can't say
that you have to , o ,it. We are trying to work in cooperation
with all the deve3•0ppr.s.
Southold Town Planning Board .-a4- March 1; 1966
WALTER KAPP,, ESQ.: Personally,,,, I think that the one way
street idea is pretty good.
THE CHAIRMAN: It would give more room for parking. He
won't have to have these circles ;(pointing to map) . ,
. WALTER 'IWP;.,ESQ.: He wants the circles. There is a
little malk there so that the people don't step right out on
the road.
THE' CHAIRMAN: It was our opinion that one way would make
much better access.
MR. .UNKELBACH: The only thing I am concerned about is the
five foot set back. What about snow removal?
MR. YOUNG: I don't like this. We are making the same
mistakes that were made 40 years ago.
WALTER KAkP.vESQ.: In what .way?
MR. YOUNG: Too narrow- roads, People are going to park
along the curb. There is going to be a mess heree it isn't
going to be very good planning. We have the same type of
thing in Gardiners Bay' Estates. The original owners of the
lots have all died and now the people want the roads taken
care of and snow removal. . We have the same thing up at Camp
Mineola..- Lupton's ' Point,O- Cleaves ' Point. The property holders
have to maintain the roads. Another one is Calves Neokr they
are all two rode. roads. That is nothing more than ,a cow path.
I will register a negative vote for anything less than 50 foot
roads. I am sitting on the Planning Board to give my experience
and knowledge to the Town of Southold. That is the way I feel.
I will vote negative on anything less than 50 feet. I don't
want to be arbitrary but when you say these narrow roads are
okay I can't agree. We had the same thing in M&neolar now
they 'are ,tearing down buildings to make parking spaces. Are
we going to have the same thing happen here? Not if ' I am
on the Planning Board.
Southold Town Planning Board -5- March 1, 1966
THE 'CHAIRMAN: I agree with you as far as subdivisions are
concerned, but this is approval of access..
MR. YOUNG: This is the same thing. There has to be a road
in front of the property.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is one which we have no authority over.
MR. YOUNG: I am not going to have my name attached to a
recommendation ' I don't believe in.
WALTER KAPP,ESQ.: There .is one thing I would like to call
your attention to Mr. Young, we have a parking area that will
be used.
MR. YOUNG:- Don't think that -I don't think this is a very
good thing for the Town of Southold. If you were sitting in
my- chair and had the same experiences I had, you would feel
the same way.
MR. UNKELBACH:- Th.ere is another problems what'`s going to
happen when the ownership, changes hands? What prevents the
new owner from taking the one way sign out of there in five or
ten years. I agree with Archi. The ownership can change.
WALTER KAPPrESQ.: I don't know what Mr. Rich will think
about -this. If the on,[ way street is in operation I think
anyone would.be foolish to change it.
THE CHAIRMAN:- Could we specify that a condition of this
approval should be one way streets. Possibilyddnaw up a legal
instrument binding the land to a one-way operation.
MRS,. UNKELBACH: Whatever the suceeding owner does with the
land he has a right to ah
. THE CHAIRMAN: . Covenctts could be drawn up that go with
the land and not with the owner.
MR. YOUNG: You can see what we are up against here. Mr. '
Rich isn''t going to be here forever. if someone else gets
ahold of itthey could make a slum out of it.
. WALTER KAPP:,, ESQ.: Anyone could make a slum out of it
if they wanted to.
MR. YOUNG: We are sitting on this Board trying the best
way we know how to avoid mistakes that other people have made.
Southold .Town `,Planning Board -6- March lr 1966
RAYMOND' DEAN: You .c6uld stagger one sidegarking..
THE CHAIRMAN-: There should be 20 feet clear and no
parking. on.. the 2.0 feet.
(no further discussion held on the muter .of the
application of- Frederick' Rich for an" Opeii;,';D'evl�opmerit
Area.)
The Planning Board held .a joint meeting with the .Village
o_f Greenport 'Planning Board to ftcuss the matter of the
proposed annexation to the Village of Greenport. Those
present from the Village of Greenport -were: John 'Sherwood,,
James Monsell:l. Harry Monsellz Henry Bunce, Bernard .Van Poperingz
and William Quinn.
The map, of the proposed annexation tothe 'Village of
Greenport was laid out for everyone to view. Mr. Sherwood
stated that the Greenport Village Planning 'Board .had not
seen the map. He stated that he saw it about three weeks
ago. Mr. Sherwood felt that the property line should be
,straighten out .
It was stated that there are 250 acres of land that are
proposed to be annexed. 100 acres of this land is not
taxable.
- Mr. Unkelbach inquired about the legal .aspect of this
Proposal. There was a question as to whether or not a
referendum would be required for the annexation of the
property in question.
The Chairman stated that the Planning Board wasn't too
concerned about the assessed valuation. He stated that the
Planning Board .is more interested in the Town of Southold and
the Village of Greenport. The Chairman stated that he realized
the Village of Greenport had some .very real problems as far
as expansion is concerned. The Chairman stated that the
Planning Board can only recommend this proposal to the- Southold
Town Board. Hoveverz The Planning" Board can recommend further
that the possibility of straightening out some of the property
lines be explored. . This would be something the Village Board
and the Town Board would have to make arrangements on. Another
possibility would be to have this proposal voted on 'in the next
election.
- Southold Town Planning 'Board --7- March lr 1966
Mr. Sherwood stated that the property that the New York .
Telephone Company building is located.on is left out of the
proposed annexation. He stated that they would like to include
this in the annexation.
Mr. Young asked if the Village of Greenport had first
refusal on the telephone building presently being used. It
was stated that no deal has been made but the village has
asked for first refusal on this property and building.
Mr. Sherwood stated that the Village would like to bring
the property of the Silvermere Motel into the 'Village limits
because the Silvermere Motel needs their sewage disposal system.
The Chairman "explained the proceedure on recommending this
proposal to the Southold Town Board. The Chairman further
stated that the Board felt they should recommend this annexation
as proposed and shown on the map.;, and further recommend that
the property lines be straightened out in the interest of the
Village of 'Greenport.
An Airial photograph of the proposed annexation was
presented and all present viewed it.
- A discussion wass held on what procedure would be necessary
to include these other properties in the Vilbge of Greenport in
oa;der to straighten out the lines.
The Chairman advised the Village that there had been an
application for a change of acne on- the corner of the North
Road and Moore='s' Lane. He- advised that a shopping center was
proposed .here. Howevers,. he pointed out that 'it was' a very
wellllandscapeddand very well planed shopping center. 'If the
property lines for the annexation of Greenport -.were straighten
out, this property proposed for a shopping center would be-
taken into the Village of Greenport. - The Chairman stated .that
the Planning Board felt somewhat obligated to Mr. Nelsenr owner
of the property in questions because his attorney had discussed
very throughly with the Planning Board the plans for the property.
Mr.- Sherwood stated that Mr. Nelsen would like to come- within
the Village limits for the sewage system.
The Possibility of having' a shopping center located' in
Greenport was briefly discussed.
Southold Town Planning Board --8-- March is 1966
I
On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe,, it was
RESOLVED: WHEREAS.. the' Southold Town .Board has requested
the Southold Town' Planning Board to make a recommendation:-on
the proposed annexation to the Village of Greenport as shown
on� the map by`Otto Van Tuyl & Son,, dated October 27, 1965, and
WHEREAS the Southold Town' Planning Boardhas met with the
Greenport Village Planning Board to discuss this proposal,
NOW THEREFORE �BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town
Planning Board recommend to the Southold Town Board the land
of the Village of Greenport as shown on- a certain map by
Otto Van Tuyl &- Son, engineers and surveyors,, dated -October
27, 1965 be annexed within the Village limits of the Village
of Greenport;
IT IS FURTHER RECOMMENDED that other lands beginning at
the present westerly Village line .on the north side of Front
Street ;(Main Road-State Road 23). and running westerly along
.the northerly side of said Main Road to the westerly limits
of the Village of Greenport property" at Pellzs Garage; thence
northerly to the southerly.line of the North Road ',(county Road
no. 27) ; - thence easterly along the southerly line of said -
County 'Road .No. .27 to the westerly side of Moorers Lane; thence
southerly to a point where a direct extension of Washington
,Avenue would intersect- Moore's Lane; thence easterly on the
southerly line o.f' Washington Avenue extended to the present
Village line. - Said lands.. not shown on the aforesaid maps
should also be included within the Village limits .of the
Village of Greenport as soen ' as all necessary legal steps
can be taken.
Vote of -the Board: Ayes:-- Mr. Wickham.. Mr. Moisa,- -Mr.
Grebes Mr. Youngs, Mr. Unkelbach.
The above resolution was favorable to those present
from the .Village of Greenport.
On motion 'by Mr. Moisar, seconded by Mr. Unkelbachr it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Planning
Board dated February 15s 1966r be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickhama Mr, Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
Southold Town Planning Board -9- March 1,, 1966
The Plannigg 'Board again discussed the application of
Frederick Rich for an' ' Open-Development Area. It was the
opinion of the Planning Board that at least 24 feet is needed.
for the right of way and the right of way should be made� one
way. It was pointed out that it would be essential to use
the parking area. It was also pointed out that the two
proposed .units on the north side of-Southold Fire 'District
and Dednoski would have to be moved -further- nor th. It.twas,
further pointed out that provisions for cat3h basins would
have to. be provided to take care of the drainage on the
applicant"s property. There was a question as to whether
or- not.- adequate parking was provided for the number of
dwelling units on the property. This has not been determined
yet. Howard Tetry, Building Inspector, pointed out that
this property in question has changed ownership several times
in the past year .on paper.
It was the feeling of the Planning Board that it would
be better to recommend this' Open,'Development Area favorably
and put restrictions on it.., rather than to not recommend
this proposal favorably:.
The Planning 'Board took the following action:
In the matter of the petit-ion -of-:Frederick- P.- Richr
SoutYn ld, New York -relative to an application for an Open
' Development Area in accordance with Section 280A of the State
of New York' Town Law., on property located west of the property
of- Southold Fire 'District =on the north side -of MainRoadr
: Southoldl New York.. extending north to the. Long Island R,ailroad-
and :east to Boisseau Avenue.. approximately 6 acres of land
having the metes and bounds set forth in the survey 'annexed
to the applicationZ _ map by` Otto W.- Van' Tuyl. &- Son=,,
On motion by Mr. Moisar_ seconded by Mr. Youngs it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board recommend
to the` Southold Town Board the establishment of said open
development area on .said property described above.. subject to :,
the following conditions:
1. There shall be required a mininum twenty-four (24) foot
one way right of ways all paved= in view of the fact that 24 feet
is needed to get into the parking area especially when the
vehicles will be driven by elderly people.
w
Southold Town Planning Board .-10- March l.. 1966
2. In view„of the fact that some of the property in
question- has.: changed ownership several times-,on papers- a
legal instrument should be drawn up to bind the minimum
twenty-four (24) foot one way right of way to the land
and .not to the owner.
3. .The, two proposed buildings .on the north side of
Southold Fire 'District and on the north side of property of
Bednosky shall be moved further' north in order to provide
adequate property line setback.
4.- Provisions for drainage must be made on the applicants
property. .
5.; The Planning Board points out that this property
should have been a subdivisions in view of the fact that all
physical features and area point to a subdivision.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-- Mr. Wickham.. Mr. Moisar Mr.
Grebe..,Mr. . Young� Mr. Unkelbach.
Im view of- the fact that the Highway'Specifications of the
Town of Southold have been amended;
On motion by.Mr. Moisar, seconded by' Mr. Grebes, it was
RESOLVED thatl_-:the Rules & Regulations for the -Subdivision
of:Land,. :Town of Southold be amended as follows:
1. By amending Section 5 ' "IMPROVEMENTS114 Item 2. to
. read:
.. SECTION 5 ".IMPROVEMENTS".r . ITEM 2: .All streets shall
conform to the Highway.'Specifications of the Town of Southold.
IT WAS FURTHER RESOLVED that a public hearing be held on
the -above proposed amendment -at 7:30 P.41. (E.'S.T•),r: Tuesdays.
April . 5,i- :1966.. - at the Town' OfficerMain Road,- Southoldi New York.
Vote of the Board:- Ayes: Mr. Wickhamr Mr. Moist.. Mr. Grebe..
Mr. Young;' Mr. Unkelbach.
Southold Town Planning Board _11- March lr 1966
The Southold Town Planning Boar received notices of amendments
to .the..Riverhead Town` Zoning .Ordinance and the Southampton Town
,Zoning..Ordinance. Said amendment notices were placed on file.
: A letter was received from 'James' R. Manning in regard to
the dedication of the highways at Race Point- Corp. Mr. Manning
said that the building located, on Reservoir *.Road would be
removed in. the riear: future and .would like action to be taken "
on the other roads at Race' Point Corp. :.Aor .dedication.
On motion by Mr. GrebeF seconded by Mr. Moisar, it .was
RESOLVED that a letter be written to James P. Manning
advising him that the Planning Board felt it would be better
to wait until the building is actualiy .removed from Reservoir
Road.. then dedication for . all the highways at=Race' RointCorp. -
could.be taken care of at one time.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Mr. .Wickhamz.-Mr.. .Moisas, Mr, Grebe-,,
Mr. Young..,, Mr. Unkelbach.
The Chairman advised the other memflaers of the Board that
he had "tols William".Wickham,. Esq that the Board would reach
some decision on the matter of the proposed change-- of aDne
on the property of Peter Harvey. ''Dury'Estate. . William .Wickhamr
Esq. has a client who is iderested in mpeni.ng "a gasoline
station at the location. The Board viewed -the tax.map and
considered the adjoining properties. It was pointed out
that therewas no business property- adjoining this property
or across the streg-- from.-this property.. Therefore a change
of zone in this location could constitute spot zoning. It
was also pointed out that there is a gasoline serviLce station
located approximately 2,000 feet easterly" of this property on
the same side of the road. This property in question is also
located approximately 200 feet from a churbh. - It- was pointed
out that all business operations must be location' a certain
distance from a church.
it was. agreed "that 'a letter be written to William,Wickham
Esq advising him that in view of the fact that the property
inquestion is located near a church, and a minimum distance
must be kept from the church,,, it- is unadvisable to use this
property for the purpose. intended.
Southold Town' Planning' Board -12- March It 1966
Mr. Rod Van Tuyl presented to the' Board a preliminary
map of'Eastern Shores at- Greenportv,- Section V. This section
is located to the south of-Section IV of Eastern' Shores. This,
parcel contains approximately 15 acres and has 27 ,10ts. It
was pointed out that this.property slopes from north 'to south.
The elevation runs from 40 to about' 20. The applicant's would
like tentative approval on this subdivision inoorder to commence
construction' of the roads.
On motion'by Mr. Moisa,,, seconded by Mr. Grebe,, it was K v
RESOLVED that tentative approval be given to the subdivZi+�tn� g
to be-known as' Eastern Shores at Greenportv- Section V', .located-►. ;,
at: Greenport:,, Town of Southoldm,- Suffolk- Countyz. New York,
consisting of: a parcel of land 14. 96 acres, owned and developed
by'H:J.S.-. Land &' Development: Corp, and J.M.S Land & Development
Corp.i map by" Otto W. Van Tuyl & Son,. dated December 22,E 1965.,
Vote'.of the Board: Ayes:--'Mr.: Wickham, Mr. Moi:sa, Mr..
Grebez mr. Youngs. Mr. Unkelbach.
The -next regular meeting .of'the� Southold Town Planning
Board will be held at- 7:30' P.M,s. Tuesday,,, April 5.,, 19661 at
the Town Office$, Ma;,n- Roads.- Southoldz. New York.
-The meeting was adjourned at-10:30 P M,
Respectfully submitted=.
Barbara- C.- Dittmannr,- Secretary
Southold Town, Planning Board
JOHN-;WICKHAM:Z' CHAIRMAN