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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-02/17/1960 t � o��FFo��o o`, y z Southold Town ' PlanningBoard SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. V. PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wickham, Chairman Henry Moisa Alfred Grebe Archibald Young William Unkelbach M .I N U T F S Southold Town Planning Board February 177 1960 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was: held 7:30 P.M., Wednesday, February 17, 1960 at the Town Clerk Office, Main -Road, Southold, New York. There were present: Messrs. John Wickham, Chairman, Henry Moisa, Alfred Grebe, Archibald Young, and William Unkelbach. Also present: Messrs. Howard M. Terry, Building Inspector, Otto W. Van Tuyl, Consultant, and Harold Price, Highway Superintendent. Also the following interested individuals were present at this meeting: William Beebe, Joseph Deerkoski, Corwin Grathwohl, Fred Ka.elini James Grathwohl, Walter Luce, Harry Mason, George McCarthy, Chester Orlowski, George Penny III, Stanley Sledjeski, Anthony Stagnitta, Joseph Stagnitta, Hull Tuthill, Wilson Tuthill, William Wickham, and' George Williamson. MR. JOHN WICLEAM, Chairman, Southold Town Planning Board: Before anyone else speaks I would like to make the following statement for the record. Yesterday Mr. Van Tuyl and I met with the Suffolk County Board of Health, Dr. Overton, INIr. a Southold Town Planning Board -2- Flebruary 171 1960 Villa and Mr. Lavids and we spent from 10:30 A.M. to 12:30 P.M. discussing the problems which . arise when the minimum requirements for subdivisions in the -County of Suffolk are 20'000 sq. ft. and the minimum requirements for zoning in Southold Town are 129500 sq. ft. We tried to outline tb them that we had. a particular problem here where the require- ments seem more stringent than on any other ton in the County. Our minimum of 12,500 sq. ft. is higher than many of the towns we know of further west and our population is relatively stable with an increase of only 1% per year for the past ten years in direct contract to wester Suffolk. In the main our problem was further simplified by the fact we have a general single line of dwelling around the salt water inlets and bay fronts and the movement of soil and ground water from underground reserve to salt water was through a single layer of water supply and sewage disposal and this again was in direct contrast to the western end of the County. They said when they approved a subdivision it was good for 50 years and they had to look to the future , that they were of no mind to change or reduce the minimum size, in fact they would be inclined to increase it and expect in two years it would be increased. When we completed the two hours there both Mr. Van Tuyl and I felt that we had not accomplished a thing but to clear in our own minds that we wontt be able to move them. MR. VAN TUYL' Consultant: I asked all three if we could state that they were decided unanimously in the position that they would not reduce the requirements of 20,000 sq. ft. per lot and I recall that all said yes' and they would be in back of it and we would not be responsible for it , it was a Board of health matter. MR. WIC EHAM: We explained to them the problem which arises when a development is backed up to a single lot or a group of .less than five lots which can be sold and building permits.. issued with a minimum of 12)500 sq. ft. and they agreed that it was a difficult position and suggested that we - ought , to do one of two things: We, ought to go to a minimum of 20)000 sq. ft. in the Town of Southold or have municipal water and sewage disposal, one or the other. We told them what we thought of municipal water for most of our communities. It would be a relatively simple natter in Ma.ttituck' but to develop the water front with any type of water supply is out of the question. They said if it is out of the question as you sayq there should be no question but that you ought to protect the Town by having even larger minimum zoning require- ments. They have had in the recent past, quite a few complaints of water supply contamination in Southold Town and quoted cases where there was found sodium arsenite used, for killing potato vines in Southold Town. They stated that they had talked with the Supervisor and wanted to get with the Town Board at the Southold Town Planning Board -3- February 171 1960 next meeting and discuss this problem themselves. They have a lot of cases behind them adjudged in their favor. MR. GEORGE PENNY III. Mattituck9 New York: That makes the low priced lot a thing of the past. People will go to other areas i4here the lot sizes are smaller. Don't you think that the Board of Health is overlooking the fact that detergents is our main problem here? MR. WICIaAM: They say that is not necessarily so. They cite salium arsenite. IVM. VAN TUYL: They point out that they made this regu- lation on the 202000 sq. ft. per lot before this came up about detergents. MR. STANLREY SLEDJESKI, Mattituck9 New York: Mr. Sled jeski asked about Riverhead and Southampton and he was advised that they are all under the same regulation of the Health Department. J,M. JOSEPH SITAGNITTA7 Mattituck7 New York: How do they feel the 207000 sq. ft. will reduce the sodium areenite condition? IiJR. WICIULQvi: They have made tests to determine this sodium arsenite condition and the area of soil it affects.. MR. STAGNITTA: It looks like they are going to establish the zoning from now on. MR. WICK AM:- The V.A. and F.H.A. started out with a higher minimum than the County of Suffolk. MR. FRED KAELIN' Cutchogue' New Yore: How dozestrictions apply with relation to business lots? MR. HOWARD M. TERRY, Building Inspector: They apply primarily to residential lots. MR. WICXHAM: Every industrial building, and every multiple residence building must have approval of the Labor Department and Health Department and on a County Road it has to go through the County Highway Department. MR. PENNY: In other words if you want to divide the best thing to do is not file for it' just go ahead and do it on our own. MR. WIC=A.M: The Planning Board primarily comes into this on a highway question. We had to take steps to protect our- selves in the Town of ,Southold' protect against developers who Southold Town Planning Board -�+- February 17, 1960 were coming into the Town and had no respect for our regulations. We felt that our regulations were reasonable and were going to be sure they live by them. Now we come into this thing and it is still as far as the Planning Board is concerned on a highway basis. This when we do not come into/it: If the highway is dedicated to the Town, accepted by the Town, taken over by the Town and there are only a certain limited number of lots sold we say that is not our business , we have no jurisdiction, it never comes before us. However, we are still a Planning Board and concerned with the Town of Southold and feel that if it is for the best interests of the Town to have 20,000 sq. ft. then it will be necessary as far as we are concerned. IvM. HOWARD TERRY: I have talked with some building inspectors from other towns , Brookhaven, Islip, etc. , and they have assured 'me they will not consider an application unless -- subdivision application unless it is accompanied by a signed contract from the grater authority and forces them to lay water mains regardless of the distance they have to bring it in. They will not accept an application for a building permit and will not give a.-permit on an unimproved or improved street unless there is a Health Department approval of a private water and sewage disposal system. I want you people to know we are not as tough as down the western end of the County as you may think. Also the roads must be stone base and blacktop, there must be sidewalks , curbs and gutters. MR. STANLEY SLPDJESXI: I think the Planning Board is setting their standards up to high and the Board of Health is going along and putting words in your mouth. 14R. VAN TUYL: The Board of Health set the 209000 sq. ft. requirement in 1956. 1,a. TiTUELBACH stated cases where property in ,Suffolk County was condemned and it was necessary to put in water systems. MR. WILLIAM WICIUUM, Mattituck, New York: For purposes .here we have to agree that the Board of Health is right. I do not believe the Planning Board will make the decision to go to 20,000 sq. ft. it will probably be the Town Board after your advice and the Board of Health's advice. The Town is going to come up with 209000 sq. ft. which might be a year or two but sometime in the not to distant future. The question is filing a map. There have been numerous developments here and nearby who have not filed. Is there going to be any damabe if these fellows put in lots with 122500 sq. ft.? DM. WIC=PEIAM, Chairman: Personally, if you or someone else could come up with some reasonable plan by which we Southold Town Planning Board -5- February �7, 1960 could waive filing a map I would like to hear of it. The basic premise upon which toting wasset up in the Town of Southold was a uniform zone for agricultural and residential. MR. TERRY: I -do not think the Town fathers , the Board of Appeals , Planning Board and Town Board has authority to waive State haw. Under Mate Law $250.00 per lot is the fine for selling lots which do not conform. MR. GEO��GE McCARTITY brought up the matter of depth of well points and lots on the four corners in a subdivision. MR. VAN T-011: The Health Department has required test wells for the past five or six years. I have no doubt in my mind that the ones that are enforcing the law are perfectly honest and believe what they are doing is in the best interest of the County. It is County-wide, there is no doubt about it. MR. JOIN WICKHAM: I think they are leaning over backwards. In Southold Torn they have allowed some - developments to be approved if they found salt 40 ft. down, they allowed them to Dull the point back to where the crater was good. I believe they are entirely reasonable. I feel sorry for not only you people but also the people who work for you and need the work. MR. McCARTT3Y: Under subdivisions they require an arrange- ment of wells so that none will be within 100 ft. of any cesspool. If you do not do that it could make trouble in the future. I think it is a good rule. Imo. PENNY: About a year ago I went down with Mr. Grathwohl to the Town Board and stated that a building code was necessary. The Town said they would consider it if we got all of the builders and lumber people in the Town to sign. We have heard nothing further on it. MR. JOHN WICT.MA14: I am not in accord with a building code at the present time. I agree in time it will be necessary. We are a small Town with relatively uniform groups of people and houses and I like to think we can operate our Town, the Town of Southold in a reasonable manner without excessive regulations. I am looking at "it from the basis of a person in agriculture and a taxpayer. MR. ARCHIBALD YOUNG: Personally I would not like to see a set building code Put into effect at the present time. I am of the opinion the minute we try to enforce a building code we have to have more taxes to operate it. I would like to see us go along as we are at the present time and avoid that un- necessary expense. NIR. U1\71MMBACH: The banks and F.H.A. require that the Southold Town Planning Board -6- February 17, 1960 the codes and Board of Health regulations be complied with before granting a mortgage. MR. WILLIAM WICKHAM: Is the protection we are insisting on for the Town of Southold in zoin ing worth the cost in hard- ship to the builders , farmers, developers, time lost, business you might have gotten, tying up men. Today we would say not, it is not worth it until we get this straightened out. When you start to control something you must figure very carefully the cause. ED,. JOHN WICKHAM: We could take the steps of you developers developing the land, you construct the highways, turn them over to the Town Highway Department, get it accepted, and come to the building inspector with a request for a building permit for not more than two lots a year. You bypass the Planning Board completely. IvR. WILLIAM WICKHAM: However, that is not a permanent solution. Sooner or later the Planning Board and Board of Appeals of the Town of Southold and the Board of Health is going to get together and the Town of Southold is going to come up with some definite policy. In the interim we are faced with the problem of gang ahead with some of these develop- ments and we do not know what to do until we get the decision of the Town of Southold. That can be three months and maybe a year. According to the real estate law when you divide one or more pieces of property for building sale it becomes a sub- division. MR. JOHN WICHAM: The State Law says one or more. It is my opinion this Board will go by the Board of Health law which says less than five, meaning four or less. NR. ARCHIBALD YOUNG: In your opinion, what is going to be the areas of the Town that is going to be built up first? The main road, sound bluff or bay front? M1 . PENNY: I would say the .bay front has been built up already. MR.. JOHN WICKHAM: I think that once we get into this that _the thought that the costs is going to be prohibitive is not going to be true. In the typical layout from 125 to 200 is 'not disastrous . That would make the typical lot 100 by 200. MR. WALTER LUCE, Cutchogue, New York: Why is it necessary . to jump to 20,000 sq. ft. , why not 15,000 zq. ft.? NR. JOHN WICKHAM: The County Board of Health will not give an inch. Southold Town Planning Board �7 February 177 1960 NR. ALFRED GREBE Why not have an open meeting with the Board of Health so that these people may speak- to them directly? IvR. 1,VILLIA14 WIC+dIAM: Can we assume that your recommendation to the Tome. Board will be 20,000 sq. ft.? MR. JOHN WICKET M: The County Board off' Health is going to talk with the Town Board and explain the problem and recommend 20,000. MR, ANTHONY STAGNITTA: When you spoke with the Board of Health did you suggest 159000 and try to reach a compromise? 14R. JOHN WIC-ffAM: The answer of the Board of Health was that they think it will be over 20,000 s q. f t. in the near future. i/.R. HULL TUTHILL, Ntattituck, New York: From 1945 to 1955 we handled V.A. and F.H.A. and in every instance the purchaser must meet the existing regulations at the time in order to occupy the house. MR. JOHN WICYCIEL4: Hull, in any one area about how many new accounts do you get in a year? -MR. TUTHILL: We are disappointed if we do not have a 1p%increase a year. I would like to say that Zoning is the best thing that has happened to Southold Town. At least 60% of the house starts are summer construction in the Town of Southold. At least 60% of- the people were those coming into the area out here. In a survey made by a concern for a County-wide sewage system 15 or 20 years ago, engineers estimated the population of Suffolk County in 1960 would be 300,00, now it has more than doubled that. MR. CHESTER ORLOtivSKI, Cutchogue, New York: 80 0 of my business is for summer people. MR. CORWIN GRAThMOHZ, Cutchogue , New Yorks I would say closer to 90% are summer people. MR. JOHN WIC 1M: We in Southold Town are extremely fortunate. This is the-case because generally speaking the school problem is the acute problem and these people do not send children to schools but still pay school tars. Mft. JOSFPH S'�TAGNITTA: I think you people on the Planning Board have done a very distastful job very commendably. I do not believe anyone here has any grief against you. Southold Tot.n Planning Board February 177 1960 MR. JOHN WICI=M: The next thing is for the Board of Health to send a representative to the Town Board. Mr . Van Tuyl, would it be a reasonable solution to suggest to some of these peopld that they might construct the highways , tutn them over to the Town, start work on the filing of the map and at the same time apply for building permits on not more than four buildings with the thought that if the highway has been turned over to the Town the building inspector could issue the building permits and if there were not more than four lots involved we would not have to consider it a subdivision at that time. Would this be reasonable? MR. VAN TUYL: That sounds reasonable and sensible, but sometimes the law is not sensible. If that were the case the lots shown on the subdivision could not be numbered. At this point the Planning Board resumed their regular meeting, the interested individuals having left the meeting. On motion_ of Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, and carried it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board hold their next regular meeting on Saturday, March 5 , 19607 1:30 P.M. , at the Town Clerk Office , Main Road, ,Southold, New York. It was further RESOLVED that the Planning Board request a joint meeting with the Board of Appeals and Town Board at 2:00 P.M. , on the same date. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa' Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young, and Mr. Unkelbach. On motion of Mr. Grebe , seconded by Mr. Moisa and carried, it was RESOLVED that a letter be forwarded to the Southold Town Board calling their attention to the fact that the Suffolk County Board of Health minimum requirements for lots in a filed subdivision are 207000 sq. ft. This is also the minimum requirement of both the V.A. and F.H.A. Since we are experiencing considerable hardship and friction between developers, some of whom are forced to the 20,000 sq. ft. minimum and some of whom, by virtue of building on a single lot or an established highway, will comply with the 12,500 sq. ft. minimum required by the Southold Town Building Zone Ordinance, we request they consider this problem. At the same time their presence was requested at the joint meeting to be held March 51 1960. Vote of the Board: Aye s- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mir. g Grebe , Mr. Youn , and Mr. Unkelbach. Southold Town Planning Board -9- February 17, 1960 The Planning Board received a letter from the New York State Federation of Official Planning Organizations requesting them to consider membership in this Federation. On motion of Mir. Young, seconded by lkir. Moisa and carried it. was RESUTE that the Planning Board does not wish to joing the New York State Federation of Official Planning Organizations. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Kr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young , and Mr. Unkelbach. Mr. HowardTerry, Building Inspector, informed the Planning Board that Mr. Charles Witherspoon and Kr. Robert Witherspoon had appeared at -the Southold Town Board meeting on February 16 and present a list of proposed amendments to the sign portion of the Building Zone Ordinance. Mir. Terry advised that the Witherspoons Mould like to attend a meeting of the Planning Board some time in the near future. The Planning Board again discussed the matter of the petition of Walter .C. Grabie for an Open Development Area. On motion of Mr. Young, seconded by Mr. Moisa and carried it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board recommend to the Town Board that the Open Development Area be granted on property of Walter C. Grabie located on Deep Hole Creek, Mattituck, New York, bounded north by Elmer Ruland, east by Weese and Corso, south by Jensen' Audioun, and west by Ruland and O'Brien. Map of property surveydd for Edmund R. Lupton situated at Mattituck by Otto W. Van Tuyl & Son surveyed March 24, 1952, suggested subdivision April 1, 1952. Members of ,the Planning Board have visited this property several times and feel that Mr. Grabie has made every effort to improve the access . This property was purchased at the time the original Ordinance was in effect where 100 ft. frontage on each lot was not required. In the file is a petition signed by property owners served by this road, all indicating they wish it left as it presently is. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young, and Mr. Unkelbach. The Planning Board received notification from the Southold Town Board that the petition of Frederick R. lKetcham for a chlange of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District was granted effective February 18, 1960. Notification was also received that the petition of Lillian M. Brush for a change of Zone from "A" Residential and .Agricultural 'District to "M" Multiple Residence District was granted effective Febria ry 18, 1960. Southold Town Planning Board -10- February 17, 1960 The minutes of the Meeting of February 1, 19607 on motion of Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Moisa and carried were approved as read. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe , Mr. Young, and Mr. Unkelbach. Mr. Grebe again brought up the matter of the zoning of Fort H. G. Wright at Fishers Island. The Fishers Island Ferry District would like to have approval of the aviation field portion of .the property so that they may fix the hanger building and make other improvements . The Planning Board decided that before they do anything further on this they would refer it to Mr. Otto W. Van Tuyl to have an accurate legal description prepared and it would then be taken up again at the next meeting of the Planning Board on March 5th. Meeting adjourned at 11:20 P.M. Respectfully submitted, S-1 -- Judith T. Boken Secretary John Wickham, Chairman