HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/20/1967 E
T Southold Town Planning Board
p �O� S O UTH O LD, L. I., N. Y. 11971
411 y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
William Unkelbach
Frank Coyle
M. I N U T'E S
SOUTHOLD'-TOWN' PLANNING BOARD
June 20, 1967
A regular meeting of the' Southold Town Planning Board
was ttld at 7:30 P.M. , Tuesday, June 20, 1967, at the Town
Office, Main Road, Southold,, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry
Moisa, .William Unkelbach, Frank' Coyle.
Absent: Mr. Alfred Grebe
Also present: Messrs: Otto Van Tuyl,. Consultant, Lawrence,
Tuthill, P.E. , Howard Terry, Building Inspector.
Mr. Steve' Doroski appeared before the"O.lanning Board to
discuss possible change of zone to "B" Business .District on pro-
perty' on the North Road. The map on the proposed extension of
the' County-Highway were viewed. Mr.. Doroski' felt- that' the barn
used for' Bading potatoes will have to be moved .across the
street, otherwise,_ the front part of the truck being loaded will
encroach on the highway. The poss4bility of operating under- pre-
sent conditions was discussed.- Mr. Doroski stated he would
like to have all has operation on the north side of the road in
view of the fact most of the farm is located on the north side
of the road. He felt- the whole operation must- be held kmg xxkk
together.
T"
Southold Town Planning Board -2- June 20, 1967
The' Chairman advised that- he did not see any particular
problem.with his request, however,. he advised that- the:.Planning
Board has not been giving changes of zone on the County highway,
since they wanted to maintain this as a hi-.::;speed ,, limited
access road. The Chairman advised that. the Planning Board would
not be willing to go along with the whole width, but- would be
willing to go along with the. width he presently has. The
Planning Board would be willing to, go along.w ith a width of
4OO .feet and a depth of 300 feet on the north side of the New
Middle Road, and the small strip, 400 feet- in width on the south
side of the New Middld Road.
The' Chairman advised Mr. Doroski this request would have to
go the .the Town Board for their final approval and.he should
make his application as per the discussion.
BIRCH HILLS AT CcpUtW6 ,
SAMULE GRIMES;i ESQ: Since the last time we were here. a
new law went in here. Unless you have a legend on the map(hich
states to the effect that the proposed area is not' an offer for
dedication they will automatically offer for dedication I
am thinking of our last meeri.ng I wantto make sure my understanding
is correct on your statement that it was good planning to make
this park available. - Did- you mean to make this available to . i
allthe people on the map. If that was the intention of your
statement 'that is precisely what we contemplated. I -would like
to have- the authority to ask' Mr. Van Tuyl to put- on this map to
the effect. that. the park and playgound is not an offer to dedicate
to the -Town. It will be enjoyed by the people on- the amprnap, not
•SHE Zwhblaown. May' I ask you what your intention was?
JOHN-WICKI3AM: Gies. We have had people- come in here and
say yes4. we will show it on the map and then. ,five or ten years
later the might sell. -it. If it is designated on the map then
it can't be sold. You can sell property from a filed hap by
description. You can't sellit= if it is on- the filed map that it
is for park and playgound.
. SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.': There was no- official offer of dedication
on, the filing of the map on roads and playground, etc. Now the
thinlnq is turned the other way. The filing of a map effects
an o e of dedication that you can assume at any time. We want
Southold Town PlanningBoard -3- June 204 1967
you- to say this. park. and playground will be for: the enjoyment
of. everybody -on' this map,, but this does not constitute an offer
for dedication to the Town`of Southold. It will never become a
Town park.
THE CHAIRMAN: 'Don't- sho�-/T circuit your own client. It-may -
be at sometime he would want to dedicate it.
SAMUEL' GRIMES',, ESQ. :- This may well 'be. We request that
you approve this legend to be put on this map. It will be
worded = filing of this map shall not con-situtuf3b an cfffer of
dedication to the Taw n of Southold of the park and playground
shown hereon.
-HOWARD TERRY: Filing of the map automatically offers dedication
of the -roads.
SAMUEL GRIMES,, ESQ. : That means the Town of Southold will
automatically take over the roads?
HOWARD ,TERRY: No, you will still have to go through. the paper
work.'
THE'CHAIRMAN: I am glad you brouhgt this up. This is going
to be a problem from now on. Whatever the wordingg' is on the "first
few maps will more or less depend on "the attorney" involved.
Sooner- -or later- we will adopt something more uniformto protect
everyone-'s interest. I. believe we should clear this .wi'th the
Town' Council. I would see no rason why we can't accept this
amendment- to the map. .This is within our power. We will present
it to 'the- Town Council for" his okay. If'he okays it there will
be no problems.
MR.UNKELBACH: The title remains vested in the corporation. -
will you convey anything in your deeds?
' SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ, s Every lot- owner -has an ireevocable right
to the playground.
MR. uNKELBACH: Who will maintain it?
SAMUEL GRIMES,,r,. ESQ,: We want- the property owners to have
an association to take care of ' it. There will be suffic.idnt
motoviation of the property owners to take care of '.it.
Southold'Town Board' of Appeals --4-- June 20,, 19.67
MR. UNKELBACH: The ownership-can- change hands and the
new owner may not take the responsibility.
Nat- VAN TUYL: Don't you want to take this up with the Town
Attorney before putting it on the map?
JOHN WICKHAM: We can accept the legend., .. We will check on
tW-.wording.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ. : I should have the bond filed in a
few - days. I. have the bond,. it is just a matter" of getting- all
the signatures- on it. Most you have a formal resoultion- of the
approval of -the bond?
THE' CHAIRMAN: ,The -sufficiency has been approved. -The Town
Board sends ,us a letter of acceptance that it has been approved.
There is no problem, there is just the question of filing the
bond and the -Town Clerk sends us a letter that, he has, the bond.
The chairman is authorized to sign the map when this is done.
SAMUEL GRIMES,ESQ. : The Town clerk will then submit it- to
the -Town Board?
THE' CHAIRMAN: Yes. May Brake one other statement- inline with
the discussion about the continuing ownership of the park and
playground area. In some subdivision there has been the wish on
the part- of the corporation involved to dedicate the highway
and' a small strip of beach -to the Town. They didn't arrive at
this point until after they sold some lots and then it' became
next to impossible to tetract from the interest- they-had conveyed
out. In light of this,, it might: be- a good idea to say we are
giving a right- to the park and playground and to the beach -
subject- to dedication to 'the Town under some conditions. If you
gives these people a deed, then it is out of your'hands.
SAMUEL GRIMES: I have done this gas in some other area. I
.. have reserved title to the bed of the street with the provision
I would convey it to the association when the association was
organized and ready to take ownership, then the xolm zorporation
can do what it wants.
THE" CHAIRMAN: In this particular case -they had only sold
two or three lots. It was to their advantage to dedicate to the
Town. .The Town insisted on a narrow strip of- land and the
people did not- relinquish.
SAMULE GRIMES, ESQ.: I don't think such a request would be
ma&e.
Southold Town Board of appeals -5- June 20, . 967
THE CHAIRMAN:` We have to assume every developer that comes
in here =will have to- have Town roads. If you tie this thing up
without any means of getting. -it back. into your hands the Town won't
accept dedication of the roads. The Town might say that this
park ang' playground should be dedicated to the Town. This goes
back to an old belief in the Town of" Southold,, that- every highwiZ,.
every development with waterfront should _have one ,raod going to
the water. We have got hundreds I ---- ---- - � Xrri**mr of high-
ways that tzrminate at.water. The` Town Board. is backing off
this policy a little bit. They will .dmost certainly say• to you
we won't' assume .the cost- of these highways .unless you 'take the
park and playground -area or some of it.
SAMUEL GRIMES:& ESQ.: That is an' errouneous r.equirement,_ I
think.
THE' CHAIRMAN: It would be in the Town of Huntington, were they
have no roads- at tidewater. You can get to the beach in 100 places
between here and' eutchogue.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.': What- is taken in the size of the beach?
' THE' CHAIRMAN: One hundred feet.
SAMUEL GRIMES,,-M. : How -is that- arrived at?
THE' CHAIRMAN: On a town Road, 25' feet each side of the
highway.
SAMUEL GRIMES;,'- ESQ : There is 34 foot pavement and-50 foot
road bed so that- give -about 18 feet that: would be 8 feet on, each ..
side of the road.
THE CHAIRMAN: No, wait-' a minute you have lost`me. You have
1.00 feet at high water mark. and 100 feet back. The thing we
have advised, -put `in. this when you are talking about conveying
to property owners subject- to possible dedication to, the' Town,
-in. c ' ase a majority of the property owners want it-. Then you ,will
not be held up by one person:
SAMUEL GRIMES,. ESQ.: This will remain private unitl a
majority of land owners with to- dedicate.
THE' CHAIRMAN: This is possible.
Southold Town Board of .Appeals -6= June' 00, 1967.
SAMUEL GRIMES® ESQ. : How does dedication or not dedicating
effect my getting off the bond?
THE' CHAIRMAN: I don`t think it has any bearing on it.
Let's take a dry run on this. You have got-- a subdivision here.
You got the bond released. You have sold- four waterfront- lots.
Things are going along pretty smoothly. You- have one-quarter
mile.ofl.highway. It. costs money to maintain it. $500..00 maybe
about $700. 00 a year. If you have snow removal, maybe $1000.00
So far you have sold four lots. The. Portion that they pay is
very small. The developer. is carrying most of the- hxxxkaX burden.
THe developer may think I am: paying taxes on this property and
plowing the snow. The town should plow the snow. , So he says
what stands in the way of my Ad dedicating to the Town. We have
the houses and the assessed valuation. The only thing -that
stands in the way is the requirement- for park and playground.
The Town Board calls it a turnaround at water. That is the only
thing that stops the developer from getting out from uder maintaining
the mjk tx highways. Just assuming he didn't- see any possilmli ty
of getting rid of' the other lots. Then, if you have these few
words in there you could dedicate.
- SAMUEL GRIMES& ESQ.._: I had no idea that the Town had such
a policy. This has been an education for me. In this case in order
for you to accept dedication for this you would require what?
THE CHAIRMAN: `Fifty feet here and .100 feet here' and 100 feet
back. We don't want you to short- circuit-your client.
SAMULE GRIMES,,, ESQ. : I must leave myself in the position to
do this. I didn't realize this.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know how strongly the ' Town� Board is
sticking to this. They have said lately they don't want to
maintain them, but where they want them, they want them.
SAMUEL GRIMES,. ESQ.: Does this policy apply on the Sound
as well as on the Bay?
THE' CHAIRMAN: Any waterfront property it applies to.
SAMUEL GRIMES.- ESQ.,: Is it feasible to do anything with this
now?
THE' CHAIRMAN: They won't accept- dedication until you have
the required assessed valuation in there, and they won't setup
any -preliminary standards. Just make sure that when you sell the
first few lots you make this cleat.
Southold Town Planning Board --7-- June 20, 1967
SAMUEL GRIMES& ESQ.: I. understand in order to keep faith with
prospective purchaster,. .if this is not redemmed with the property
this park and. playground could be made a public-.park,,
THE CHAIRMAN: It has been. our experience, without exception,
after a period of years there isn't a person in' these developments
who don't.-whant to .have public roads.
. - SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ. : My contemplation at first was 'to
dedicate the roads. If this is going to be tied up, w ith 'the
deidcation of the .beach,. I don't--.know what the decision will be.
They -.want-you to maintain. the roads and they want to reserve the
park.: .for- their: own use and they will maintain it. .
-THE CHAIRMAN: The Town hasn't=been in the position. to. acceitt
on that-basis.. -The way it has .been solved is to reserve an- area
for possible dedication to the Town.
- On. motion by Mr. .Wickham, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it,-was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board accept-'.the
legend as proposed by Mr.• Samuel Grimes, Esq. , to be placed on
the map .of "Birch Hills at Cutchogue%
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Tdckham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Unkelbach,
Mr. Coyle.
On motion by' Mr. _Masa, seconded by'.Mr. Unkelbach,. it was
RESOLVED that: the Southold Town' Planming Board set 1:30
P.M. ,. Tuesday,,, July 18,, 1967,, at the- Town' Office.,, Main Road,
Southold,' New -York, as the time and .place of hearing upon
question of approval of the following plat:
Plat- of property owned by'Henry J. and Stella M. Smith,,
entitled Peconic Homes, Section II, consisting of a parcel of
land of approximately 10 acres, situated at- Peconic, in the Town
of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, and bounded azd described
as follows:
Southold Town..Planning Board.. -8- June 20', 1967
BEGINNING` at a point- on the westerly line, of a proposed
highway to be known- as- "Henry's Lane", -1505.24 feet northerly
along said.westerly- line from'Middle Road, said point of beginning
being the northeasterly corner of lot 12, as shown on "Map of
Peconic Homes-", filed in the Suffolk County'Clerk's ' Office as Map`
#4181, ; from said point of beginning running along said lot 12 as
shown on said map, S. . 440 53-1 30", W.._ 209. 98 feet to land of C.P.F.
Land Corp; thence along said land of-C.P..F. Land Corp; N. 470 59'
20" W.- 667.35- feet; thence along land of, Frederick Hehn, N. 440
53' 30" E.- 5-18.49 feet; thence along the westerly end of a
private road known as "Mi:ami Avenue" and along land of Florence
Gowan,, S. 420 09' 30" E.- 289.60 feet; thence along land of Peter
Sienk-, three courses: (, ), S. 49° 56' 30"' E, 179.1 feet; thence
.(2) S. 37 0 46' 30" E.- 70.80 feet; thence :(3) N. 620 ,242 30" E.-
44.75 -feet;. thence along land of Henry J. Smith,;three courses:
(1)' S. 240 42' 50" E.- 106.65 feet; thence !(2) N.'' 650 17= 10" -E.-
150. 0 feet; thence (3) S. 240 42 ' 50"' E.- 135. 0 feet to the
northerly line of a proposed highway to be known as "Soundview
Avenge"; thence along- said northerly line S. 650 17 ' -10`1- W.
301. 01 feet; thence across said "Soundview Avenue", and along
land of Long Island Lighting 'Company, S. 420 09' 30" K.'" 194.27 '
feet; thence along lot 25 as shown on said "Map of Peconic Homes",
S. 470 502 3011 -W.- 186.18 feet` tothe easterly line of said "Henry's
Lane";, thence along said easterly line,
N. 450, 061 30" W.- 81.12 feet; thence across said " Henry's 'Lane",
S: 440. 53' 30" .W.- 50:0. feet to the point of begining.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr: Moisa, Mr.
Unkelbach, Mr.- Coyle.
The Plannxiig Board received from ,the Town' Board the
original petition of Casbor, Inc.,,, .Mattituck, New York,
relative to a change of zone from"A" Residential and
Agricultural District to "B=2" Business District with the
instructions to prepare an official report defining the
conditions described in the petition and determine the
area so effected with the recommendation of the planning
Board.
Southold Town Planning Board -9- June 20;,, 1967
This- application is on certain .real.property situated
lying and being at Mattituck,.. Town oESouthold, County-of
Suffolk and State of New York, bounded and. described as .follows:
BEGINNING.' at a concrete monument on the southeasterly side
of'Westphalia Avenue at the northwesterly corner of the premises
herein 'described; funning thence along, Westphalia Avenue two
courses- and distances: (1) South 70.0 00,° East .116.10 feet. to.' a
monument: (2) South 360 23' 40" East- 125.,00 feet- to a monument
and Middle Road' C.R. 27; running thence. southwester'ly along
Middle Road C.R. 27 on a .curve to the g.ight having a radius of
1799.86 feet to a distance of 306. 90 feet to land of Kaiser;
running thence along .said. land of Kaiser. North 670 39' 30"
West 205.85 feet to a- monument at the southwesterly corner..
of premises herein described; r.unning.. thence North 36° 47 " 30".
East 35& 96 'feet to the monument at the point .or place .of
beginning.
On motion by Mr. Moisa.,, seconded by' Mr. Unkelbach,. it was
RESOLVED that the Southold .Town' Blanning Board does not
favorably recommend to the Town' Board the change of zone .from
"A" Residential and Agriai.tural District to "B-2" Business
District on the above described property.
The Board finds 'this property is -in- close proximity to a
church and it is their- opinion. not suitable for business use.
Vote of the Board: Ayees:- Mr. Wickham,, Mr., Moisa, Mr.
Unkelbach,, Mr.- Coyle.
On motion by. Mr. Moisa, seconded .-by Mr. Unkelbach, it was
RESDLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Planning Board
dated May 9, 1967, be -approved- as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- ALL
On motion by Mr, Moisa,, seconded by Mr. Unkelbach,. it was
RESOLVED that- the minutes of the Southold Town Planning
Board dated May 15, 1967,, be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- ALL
Southold Town Planning Board -10- June 20, 1967
The next-- regular- meeting of the Southold Town -Planning
Board will be held at- 7:30 PM., Tuesday, July 18,,. 1967, at
the Town, Office, Main Road,,,'. Southold,, New York.
10: 00
The meeting'wes adjourned at . P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara- C. Dittmann,, Secretary
Southold Town' Planning' Board
!o c AL �.
JOHN WICIUMM,. CHAIRMAN