HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/09/1965 n Planning, Board
Southold Tow g
S O UTH O LD, L. I., N. Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry M oisa
Alfred Grebe
Archibald Young
William Unkelbach
M I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
November 90 1965
A regular meeting of the 'Southold Town Planning Board
was held on November 98 1965, at the Town Office, Main Road`
Southold, New York, at 7:30 P.M.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry
Moisa, Alfred Grebe, Archibald Young.
Absent: Mr.- William Unkelbach. (In 'Europe on Business)
Also present: Messrs: Otto Van Tuyl, Consultant; Howard
Terry, Building Inspector; Lawrence Tuthill, Professional
Engineer.
Supervisor Albertson presented to the Board an offer of
deed and .right-of-way to a piece of beach property in Eastern.
Shores at Greenport. Mr. Morgan described the right-of-way
as being about 150 feet off the west line. Mr.- Schneider
stated that this is to be a continuing or permanent right-of-
way, 30 feet wide, subject to adjustment when the final map
is made of that parcel as a future section of Eastern Shores
at Greenport.
. Southold Town 'Planning Board -2- November 9, 1965
The Chairman restated that the beach area would fullfill
the Planning Board's requirements. Howeveri the highway
dedication is another matter. The Chairman stated that the
dedication of 300 feet might - cover the highway dedication
requirements, however, this is a matter for the Town Board.
The Chairman advised that .the Planning Board will not
recommend acceptance of 'highway dedication without additional
.water frontage.
THE CHAIRMAN: We cannot guarantee now that the Town Board
will settle for 300 feet. Many of the members of the Town Board
feel that 600 feet to 800 feet should be required. We have
required developers with only 400 feet- of waterfront to give
100 feet of this waterfront for' the highway dedication. We
have tried to tell you what we tlYink will be to your best
advantage and what will be to our advantage.
MR. SCHNEIDER: Isn't there an advantage to having this
-beach next to the Village property?
:(It was agreed by all that it was probably better to have
the beach next to the Village property.)
MR. YOUNG: We think putting the required road ends all
in one parcel is better than scattered road ends.
MR.. SCHNEIDER: We are saving 170 feet, plus or minus, for
our own private owners use.
THE CHAIRMAN: The extra 100 feet-you will give for access
to the Village property is mandatory to get access to the village
property. This blue print doesn't show the right--of-way as it
is described in the contract document. This - is totally wrong.,
We must have the correct- right-of-way on the blue print.
We are prepared to accept the 200 feet with correct
.; right-of-.way and not recommend dedication acceptance. I
restate, 200 feet just meets the planning Board requirements,
but not the requirements for dedication;�,of highways in any
section of Eastern Shores at- Greenport.
SUPERVISOR ALBERTSON: I haven't been in on this up to
now. We will require. more than 200 feet for any dedication
of reads. I suggest this matter be re-negotic- ed.
'y
s
Southold Town Planning Board -3-- November 90 1965
There was a lenghty discIdss' Qa:son, property values, right
of-way,. amounts of frontage ppssble, "gales, etc.
MR.' YOUNG: We can ask for 100 feet--by 100 feet for: each
road , but it is our opinion it is better to. have it in one
parcel. I thought we could negotiate at this point, but we
maYw have made a mistake.
Much further discussion was held on thepossibil'ities
of developing the pond area, town acquistiori,>,possl _, .roads.
. Also the alternative .layouts of the proposed'pa�xeX;:was
discussed.
SUPERVISOR Albertson stated that he would try to call
a meeting of the Town Board this week to further discuss this
matter with them.
The Chairman reminded Mr. Alden Young that the Planning
Board had not yet received the additional maps of Mattituck
Estatesz at Mattituck. These were to be sent to the Planning
Board and presented to the Mosquito district for inspection.
The
Mr. Charles Rogers of' Islip, Long Island, along with
Floyd King, Jr. , and Alden Young, appeared before the Board
to discuss a proposed subdivision to be located .on the
south side Main Road, Orients_ New York. This property in
question is prese.ntly .owned by"W.- Duvall.
MR. ROGERS: This a plan (presented map to Board) which
is a tentative proposal and we want- to know what you think
of this before we go .into further expenses. . We came down
here to see what you would want or what you would require.
This .was the Duvall- property. This map was prepared from .an
aerial photograph] so that we know that all the lots are on
high ground. We have in mind putting in our own private
water supply to be used for the subdivision. The plots in,
this are all approximately 100 feet by 150 feet, and some
are as large as one-half acre. - We understand that there
will be no problem with the sewage with the health departments
as long as we subdivide the land.
Southold Town'Planning Board .-4- November 9,, 1965
MR4 ..ROGERS: ' What we are trying to do is bring in three
canals, here: here, and here: (Pointed three places on the map) .
. We have property here :(pointing to map) , which we are willing
to dedicate to the Town. This down here ,(pointing to map) , will
be beach, and we will discuss whetherrit is to be private or
public beach. There are a couple of low plots, this is
about the only low spot. -We intend to keep the contour above
five or six. �c:We intend to use fill here .(pointing to map) .
. We have a-pretty good idea of'what- we want to do, we have
gone over- it quite a bit. This here (pointing to map), is a
pond that was used for irringation.
In response to a question asked by the Chairman, in regard
to a private water system, Alden Young stated that it would
probably take five wells with 50 gallons of water in each well
to supply all the people in the subdivision.
The Chairman stated that he was very much concerned
about cutting in canals where the salt water- could affect the
fresh water supply. Mr. Rogers, pointing .to the map, indicated
where one of the canals would be located. Mr. Grebe Asked if
the water supply would be in a reservoir. - Mr. Alden Young
stated that the water would have to be kept in a tank which
would hold about 8,000 gallons of' water.
. MR. MOISA: What .does the Health, Department think of
digging these canals?
ALDEN YOUNG: These are all 150 foot lots.. and they
require 100 foot lots where there -.;Ls a water supply. Mr.
Rogers went over this with Mr. Villa.
. MR. ROGERS: They didn't approve this, but they didn't
indicate that we would have any trouble.
Mr. Moisa suggested that possibly the rise and fall of j
the- tide--might present troubles with the water. - Mr. Rogers
stated that 'if there are adequate cesspools there shouldn't
be any trouble. He also stated that they intended to keep
the level high so that were the wells are it would be
higher than sea level.
- Southold Town Planning Board -5- November 9, 1965
THE CHAIRMAN: �I would think that you would have to have
a. few ..less lots.
MR.. ROGERS: I think Y..if we could keep in this general
way, we ,will be at 7, we will be taken this level here. We
don't advocate a bulkhead for the canals. I was talking to
Alvah Goldsmith and he told me that he felt that the canal
should be on a slope, that it- should be on a general slope.
MR. VAN TUYL: Have you taken any test of the water .
conditions yet?
MR. ROGERS: No, I asked Mr. Latham, he said he didn't
know of any clay deposits.
The Chairman advised Mr., Rogers that soil which has
been under saltinater often has a different structure, he
stated that it is often like sodium soil. A discussion
was held on the problems of salt in the water. It might
be necessary to put gravel bibs around the cesspools.
Mr. Rogers stated that they are trying not to use.,
anything that .is meadow land in the subdivision .
. A discussion was held on the elevation of the property.
It was determined that -the land would probably be brought
up to a seven level. - A brief discussion was held on the
material found in dikes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to say Mr. Rogers, I have
talked to one or two members of the Board and we feel that
this is a ideal farm for growing onions. I am sure the
Planning Board will back me up on this, we are not saying
that this can't be done. You have some very -real- problems
here. Unless you are willing to face them, and spend some
time and money .here, we would try to discourage you.
MR. ROGERS: Frankly, I appreciate what you are saying.
I think you should discourage people from .coming in and
destroying you farm land._ We have tackeled a piece of
property on. Fire Island, and several others onthe south
side. The Construction company we work with has had
experience on the eastern .seaboard. We understand that
we might lose money. We have invested more money in this
property than could possibly be obtained for it as a farm.
Southold. Town Planning Board -6- November 9, 1965
There are many fine possibilities for. this land. I have worked
in this area and, I would like to come down here and do what I
think. is the right thing. - We know what we are up against -here.!
I think- it will be eight years before we have these plots sold.,
It -might-be ten years or only -five years. We have taken into
consideration the water plant. " We have calculated it the best
way we know how. There is only so much water front property,
and it will-. maintain its value. We do know that we are going into
a situation that is worth .a good many problems. I think the
beauty of the community lies in the development of 'water front
property.
THE 'CHAIRMAN: This we agree with. We 'believe in the
development =of waterfront property as well as the development
of highway frontage. - We have more waterfront than highway
frontage. There is one other- question coming up with the
development of this property. Have you evaluated the/effect
of the- State Park,. do you think -this will-be a detriment- to
your development.
Mr." Rogers felt that the`State Park would have no
detrimental value against his property. The Chairman pointed
out the possibility that future property buyers might not
look favorably upon the-"State 'Park and the possible expansion
of their bathing facilities. Mr. Rogers still felt that the
State' Park-would not be detrimental to his proposed subdivision.
ALDEN YOUNG: If.'the development of this property: is at all
feasible, we will talk with Mr. Villa.
THE CHAIRMAN: I want it clearly understood, that per-
sonally -1 liave no objection to this subdivision, but -I do have '
many questions.
ARCHIBALD YOUNG: Have .you taken zny thoughts about the
maintenance of.'the canals?
MR. ROGERS: The canal will be deeded to ^the Town or ' to the
property owners. I don'.t want .to be left with the ownership of
the canals. It would be clearly understood that, everyone has
a right-of-way across the canals. We would keep the -,canals
open until all the property is sold.
ARCHIBALD YOUNG: You would have to daed the center of the'
canals. to the people.
MR. ROGERS: Yes.
Southold Town Planning Board =7- November 9, 1965
ARCHIBALD YOUNG: In Southampton Towns any t_man-made canal
has 'to be bulkheaded.
MR.- ROGERS: Mr. Goldsmith felt there was a disadvantage
in bulkheading. He felt that it would be better .to follow the
natural slope. I `believe '.that- in the Town that.was his
recommendation.- The cost-. of bulkheading. is very expensive.
Also, if 'a small child should fall in the waters. he couldn't
get 'out .if the canal was bulkheaded. For the average owner,
a sinall .pier is better.
The Chairman pointed out on the map at least two places
where the Town might require waterfrontage and also stated
that they mi_ght , require- 300 feet in another place which he
indicated on the map. Mr.. Rogers felt that it-was better
to give the land in one parcel rather"'than scatter 100 foot
parcels of water frontage.
There was a brief discussion held on density population.
It was determined that the way Mr. Rogers had his subdivision
layed out he was well below the density population. It -was
pointed out that he might have to make the proposed canals
wider- and have fewer lots in order to meet: the elevation.
The Board generally agreed that this subdivision will
meet their. approval. Mr. Rogers will talk-with the County
Health. Department, and be in touch with the Planning Board.
Tuesday, November '23s 19651 at 8: 00 P.M.. was the date
set for a meeting with.the-Riverhead Town Planning Boards to
be held in the Town Offices Main' Road, Southold, New York.
The record hereby shows that the proposed subdivision
to be named- Dn- Estatess Section I, located near Greenport,
has been changed to Cleaves Point, Section, Illl located near
Greenport, Town of Southolds Suffolk-County.. New Yorks owned
and developed by Dawn' Estates Builders Corp.
The- Dawn-Estates Builders Corp. need to post a performance
bond for' the completion of roads and watermains in the subdivision.
They -also need to present to the' Planning Board a statement or
contract from the �Village of Greenport water company stating
that they will supply Cleaves Point, Section III with water.
f `
Southold Town Planning Board -8- November 9, 1965
On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebes it was
RESOLVED that the' Southold Town ' Planning Board authorize
Mr. Lawrence Tuthill, ' P.E., to make an estimate for the
performance bond for 'the roads: drainage, and water mains in
the subdivision to be known as Cleaves Point, Section III:
located near 'Greenport, in the Town of :Southold, Suffolk
. ""County, New York, and owned and developed by Dawn Estates
Builders Coxp.
Vote of the Board: Ayes;-Mr.' Wickham, Mr. Moisa.' Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young.
On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set 7:30' P.M. ,
Wednesday,' December 15, 1965, at- the Town Office, Main Road,,
Southold, New York, as the time and place of hearing on, the
question-of approval of the following plat:
Plat of property owned by 'Dawn Estates Builders 'Corp. ,
entitled Cleaves Point,- Section III, at -Greenport, consisting
of 'a parcel of 'land of 12.3 acres, situated near 'Greenport,
in .the Town of Southold, Suffolk "County, New York, and
bounded and descr-ibed as follows:
Beginning at,-.a point on the westerly line of 'a 50 foot
private road known as Maple Lane, 390.88 feet southerly along
said westerly line from the southerly line of the Main Road,
. from .said point of beginning running along said westerly line
of Maple Lane, three courses: ,(1) S. 31* 301 00" E.-239.80 feet;
thence (2) S. 360 30' 00" E.-300.0 feet; thence (3) ' S. 300= 23s
40" E.-180.24 feet to the northerly line of a proposed 50 foot
highway to be known as ' "Snug Harbor`Road",as shown on "Map of
Cleaves Point,- Section II", filed in the 'Suffolk-County Clerl
Office. as Map, #3521; thence along said northerly line of` "Snug
Harbor.'Road",- S. 560 37t' 10" W.-103.40 feet; thence along the
northwesterly line of 'said '-'Snug Harbor:Road", S. 190 30= 00"
W.-437. 95 feet; thence along the westerly line of said "Snug
Harbor' Road",- S. 33° 223 50" E.-10.69 feet; thence along 'Lot
36 as shown on- said map,� S. 560 373 10" `W.-162.0 feet.-to
ordinary high water mark- of Gull Pond; thence along said high
water mark, northerly and then westerly 280 feet more or less
to land of Ruth Preston and Others; thence along said -land of
:Ruth Preston and -Others two courses: (1) N. 210 248 20" W.-50
feet; thence ,(2) N. Z00 503 10" W.-389.05 feet; thence along
land of Yuma Corp. , N. 210 00 00" W.-496.27 feet; thence along
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. Southold Town' Planning Board -9- November 9, 1965
land of_Dawn' Estates ` Shopping Center ' on a line ,parallel to said
c:�.southerly line of Main Road, and 375'.O feet southerly therefrom,
N. 66° 39' 50" E.-505,,35 feet to the point- of 'beginningr containing
12.32 acres.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young.
The Planning Board briefly discussed Eastern Shores at
Greenport and their fullfillment of the Town requirements.
No further action was taken in this matter.
On motion by Mr. Grebe, Seconded by-Mr. Moisar it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the 'Southold Town Planning
Board dated October 19,. 1965, be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young.
Mr. Howard Terry, Building Inspectors, reported that the
. Southold Town Board has given their final approval to the
amendments to the rules and regulations for ' the subdivision of
land in the Town •of'Southold.
The next regular meeting of 'the' Southold Town Planning Board
will be held on -December 15r 1965, at 7:30 P.M.r at- the Town
Officer Main Road, Southold, New York.
A joint meeting will be held with the Riverhead Town Planning
Board at 8: 00 P.M. , on TVesdayA November 23, 1965, at the Town
'.Office, Main-Road, Southold, New York. -
The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
I
Barbara C.- Dittmann j.- Secretary
C`i JOHN WICKHAM,- CHAIRMAN