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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/09/1965 n Planning, Board Southold Tow g S O UTH O LD, L. I., N. Y. PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wickham, Chairman Henry M oisa Alfred Grebe Archibald Young William Unkelbach M I N U T E S SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD November 90 1965 A regular meeting of the 'Southold Town Planning Board was held on November 98 1965, at the Town Office, Main Road` Southold, New York, at 7:30 P.M. There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Moisa, Alfred Grebe, Archibald Young. Absent: Mr.- William Unkelbach. (In 'Europe on Business) Also present: Messrs: Otto Van Tuyl, Consultant; Howard Terry, Building Inspector; Lawrence Tuthill, Professional Engineer. Supervisor Albertson presented to the Board an offer of deed and .right-of-way to a piece of beach property in Eastern. Shores at Greenport. Mr. Morgan described the right-of-way as being about 150 feet off the west line. Mr.- Schneider stated that this is to be a continuing or permanent right-of- way, 30 feet wide, subject to adjustment when the final map is made of that parcel as a future section of Eastern Shores at Greenport. . Southold Town 'Planning Board -2- November 9, 1965 The Chairman restated that the beach area would fullfill the Planning Board's requirements. Howeveri the highway dedication is another matter. The Chairman stated that the dedication of 300 feet might - cover the highway dedication requirements, however, this is a matter for the Town Board. The Chairman advised that .the Planning Board will not recommend acceptance of 'highway dedication without additional .water frontage. THE CHAIRMAN: We cannot guarantee now that the Town Board will settle for 300 feet. Many of the members of the Town Board feel that 600 feet to 800 feet should be required. We have required developers with only 400 feet- of waterfront to give 100 feet of this waterfront for' the highway dedication. We have tried to tell you what we tlYink will be to your best advantage and what will be to our advantage. MR. SCHNEIDER: Isn't there an advantage to having this -beach next to the Village property? :(It was agreed by all that it was probably better to have the beach next to the Village property.) MR. YOUNG: We think putting the required road ends all in one parcel is better than scattered road ends. MR.. SCHNEIDER: We are saving 170 feet, plus or minus, for our own private owners use. THE CHAIRMAN: The extra 100 feet-you will give for access to the Village property is mandatory to get access to the village property. This blue print doesn't show the right--of-way as it is described in the contract document. This - is totally wrong., We must have the correct- right-of-way on the blue print. We are prepared to accept the 200 feet with correct .; right-of-.way and not recommend dedication acceptance. I restate, 200 feet just meets the planning Board requirements, but not the requirements for dedication;�,of highways in any section of Eastern Shores at- Greenport. SUPERVISOR ALBERTSON: I haven't been in on this up to now. We will require. more than 200 feet for any dedication of reads. I suggest this matter be re-negotic- ed. 'y s Southold Town Planning Board -3-- November 90 1965 There was a lenghty discIdss' Qa:son, property values, right of-way,. amounts of frontage ppssble, "gales, etc. MR.' YOUNG: We can ask for 100 feet--by 100 feet for: each road , but it is our opinion it is better to. have it in one parcel. I thought we could negotiate at this point, but we maYw have made a mistake. Much further discussion was held on thepossibil'ities of developing the pond area, town acquistiori,>,possl _, .roads. . Also the alternative .layouts of the proposed'pa�xeX;:was discussed. SUPERVISOR Albertson stated that he would try to call a meeting of the Town Board this week to further discuss this matter with them. The Chairman reminded Mr. Alden Young that the Planning Board had not yet received the additional maps of Mattituck Estatesz at Mattituck. These were to be sent to the Planning Board and presented to the Mosquito district for inspection. The Mr. Charles Rogers of' Islip, Long Island, along with Floyd King, Jr. , and Alden Young, appeared before the Board to discuss a proposed subdivision to be located .on the south side Main Road, Orients_ New York. This property in question is prese.ntly .owned by"W.- Duvall. MR. ROGERS: This a plan (presented map to Board) which is a tentative proposal and we want- to know what you think of this before we go .into further expenses. . We came down here to see what you would want or what you would require. This .was the Duvall- property. This map was prepared from .an aerial photograph] so that we know that all the lots are on high ground. We have in mind putting in our own private water supply to be used for the subdivision. The plots in, this are all approximately 100 feet by 150 feet, and some are as large as one-half acre. - We understand that there will be no problem with the sewage with the health departments as long as we subdivide the land. Southold Town'Planning Board .-4- November 9,, 1965 MR4 ..ROGERS: ' What we are trying to do is bring in three canals, here: here, and here: (Pointed three places on the map) . . We have property here :(pointing to map) , which we are willing to dedicate to the Town. This down here ,(pointing to map) , will be beach, and we will discuss whetherrit is to be private or public beach. There are a couple of low plots, this is about the only low spot. -We intend to keep the contour above five or six. �c:We intend to use fill here .(pointing to map) . . We have a-pretty good idea of'what- we want to do, we have gone over- it quite a bit. This here (pointing to map), is a pond that was used for irringation. In response to a question asked by the Chairman, in regard to a private water system, Alden Young stated that it would probably take five wells with 50 gallons of water in each well to supply all the people in the subdivision. The Chairman stated that he was very much concerned about cutting in canals where the salt water- could affect the fresh water supply. Mr. Rogers, pointing .to the map, indicated where one of the canals would be located. Mr. Grebe Asked if the water supply would be in a reservoir. - Mr. Alden Young stated that the water would have to be kept in a tank which would hold about 8,000 gallons of' water. . MR. MOISA: What .does the Health, Department think of digging these canals? ALDEN YOUNG: These are all 150 foot lots.. and they require 100 foot lots where there -.;Ls a water supply. Mr. Rogers went over this with Mr. Villa. . MR. ROGERS: They didn't approve this, but they didn't indicate that we would have any trouble. Mr. Moisa suggested that possibly the rise and fall of j the- tide--might present troubles with the water. - Mr. Rogers stated that 'if there are adequate cesspools there shouldn't be any trouble. He also stated that they intended to keep the level high so that were the wells are it would be higher than sea level. - Southold Town Planning Board -5- November 9, 1965 THE CHAIRMAN: �I would think that you would have to have a. few ..less lots. MR.. ROGERS: I think Y..if we could keep in this general way, we ,will be at 7, we will be taken this level here. We don't advocate a bulkhead for the canals. I was talking to Alvah Goldsmith and he told me that he felt that the canal should be on a slope, that it- should be on a general slope. MR. VAN TUYL: Have you taken any test of the water . conditions yet? MR. ROGERS: No, I asked Mr. Latham, he said he didn't know of any clay deposits. The Chairman advised Mr., Rogers that soil which has been under saltinater often has a different structure, he stated that it is often like sodium soil. A discussion was held on the problems of salt in the water. It might be necessary to put gravel bibs around the cesspools. Mr. Rogers stated that they are trying not to use., anything that .is meadow land in the subdivision . . A discussion was held on the elevation of the property. It was determined that -the land would probably be brought up to a seven level. - A brief discussion was held on the material found in dikes. THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to say Mr. Rogers, I have talked to one or two members of the Board and we feel that this is a ideal farm for growing onions. I am sure the Planning Board will back me up on this, we are not saying that this can't be done. You have some very -real- problems here. Unless you are willing to face them, and spend some time and money .here, we would try to discourage you. MR. ROGERS: Frankly, I appreciate what you are saying. I think you should discourage people from .coming in and destroying you farm land._ We have tackeled a piece of property on. Fire Island, and several others onthe south side. The Construction company we work with has had experience on the eastern .seaboard. We understand that we might lose money. We have invested more money in this property than could possibly be obtained for it as a farm. Southold. Town Planning Board -6- November 9, 1965 There are many fine possibilities for. this land. I have worked in this area and, I would like to come down here and do what I think. is the right thing. - We know what we are up against -here.! I think- it will be eight years before we have these plots sold., It -might-be ten years or only -five years. We have taken into consideration the water plant. " We have calculated it the best way we know how. There is only so much water front property, and it will-. maintain its value. We do know that we are going into a situation that is worth .a good many problems. I think the beauty of the community lies in the development of 'water front property. THE 'CHAIRMAN: This we agree with. We 'believe in the development =of waterfront property as well as the development of highway frontage. - We have more waterfront than highway frontage. There is one other- question coming up with the development of this property. Have you evaluated the/effect of the- State Park,. do you think -this will-be a detriment- to your development. Mr." Rogers felt that the`State Park would have no detrimental value against his property. The Chairman pointed out the possibility that future property buyers might not look favorably upon the-"State 'Park and the possible expansion of their bathing facilities. Mr. Rogers still felt that the State' Park-would not be detrimental to his proposed subdivision. ALDEN YOUNG: If.'the development of this property: is at all feasible, we will talk with Mr. Villa. THE CHAIRMAN: I want it clearly understood, that per- sonally -1 liave no objection to this subdivision, but -I do have ' many questions. ARCHIBALD YOUNG: Have .you taken zny thoughts about the maintenance of.'the canals? MR. ROGERS: The canal will be deeded to ^the Town or ' to the property owners. I don'.t want .to be left with the ownership of the canals. It would be clearly understood that, everyone has a right-of-way across the canals. We would keep the -,canals open until all the property is sold. ARCHIBALD YOUNG: You would have to daed the center of the' canals. to the people. MR. ROGERS: Yes. Southold Town Planning Board =7- November 9, 1965 ARCHIBALD YOUNG: In Southampton Towns any t_man-made canal has 'to be bulkheaded. MR.- ROGERS: Mr. Goldsmith felt there was a disadvantage in bulkheading. He felt that it would be better .to follow the natural slope. I `believe '.that- in the Town that.was his recommendation.- The cost-. of bulkheading. is very expensive. Also, if 'a small child should fall in the waters. he couldn't get 'out .if the canal was bulkheaded. For the average owner, a sinall .pier is better. The Chairman pointed out on the map at least two places where the Town might require waterfrontage and also stated that they mi_ght , require- 300 feet in another place which he indicated on the map. Mr.. Rogers felt that it-was better to give the land in one parcel rather"'than scatter 100 foot parcels of water frontage. There was a brief discussion held on density population. It was determined that the way Mr. Rogers had his subdivision layed out he was well below the density population. It -was pointed out that he might have to make the proposed canals wider- and have fewer lots in order to meet: the elevation. The Board generally agreed that this subdivision will meet their. approval. Mr. Rogers will talk-with the County Health. Department, and be in touch with the Planning Board. Tuesday, November '23s 19651 at 8: 00 P.M.. was the date set for a meeting with.the-Riverhead Town Planning Boards to be held in the Town Offices Main' Road, Southold, New York. The record hereby shows that the proposed subdivision to be named- Dn- Estatess Section I, located near Greenport, has been changed to Cleaves Point, Section, Illl located near Greenport, Town of Southolds Suffolk-County.. New Yorks owned and developed by Dawn' Estates Builders Corp. The- Dawn-Estates Builders Corp. need to post a performance bond for' the completion of roads and watermains in the subdivision. They -also need to present to the' Planning Board a statement or contract from the �Village of Greenport water company stating that they will supply Cleaves Point, Section III with water. f ` Southold Town Planning Board -8- November 9, 1965 On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebes it was RESOLVED that the' Southold Town ' Planning Board authorize Mr. Lawrence Tuthill, ' P.E., to make an estimate for the performance bond for 'the roads: drainage, and water mains in the subdivision to be known as Cleaves Point, Section III: located near 'Greenport, in the Town of :Southold, Suffolk . ""County, New York, and owned and developed by Dawn Estates Builders Coxp. Vote of the Board: Ayes;-Mr.' Wickham, Mr. Moisa.' Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young. On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set 7:30' P.M. , Wednesday,' December 15, 1965, at- the Town Office, Main Road,, Southold, New York, as the time and place of hearing on, the question-of approval of the following plat: Plat of property owned by 'Dawn Estates Builders 'Corp. , entitled Cleaves Point,- Section III, at -Greenport, consisting of 'a parcel of 'land of 12.3 acres, situated near 'Greenport, in .the Town of Southold, Suffolk "County, New York, and bounded and descr-ibed as follows: Beginning at,-.a point on the westerly line of 'a 50 foot private road known as Maple Lane, 390.88 feet southerly along said westerly line from the southerly line of the Main Road, . from .said point of beginning running along said westerly line of Maple Lane, three courses: ,(1) S. 31* 301 00" E.-239.80 feet; thence (2) S. 360 30' 00" E.-300.0 feet; thence (3) ' S. 300= 23s 40" E.-180.24 feet to the northerly line of a proposed 50 foot highway to be known as ' "Snug Harbor`Road",as shown on "Map of Cleaves Point,- Section II", filed in the 'Suffolk-County Clerl Office. as Map, #3521; thence along said northerly line of` "Snug Harbor.'Road",- S. 560 37t' 10" W.-103.40 feet; thence along the northwesterly line of 'said '-'Snug Harbor:Road", S. 190 30= 00" W.-437. 95 feet; thence along the westerly line of said "Snug Harbor' Road",- S. 33° 223 50" E.-10.69 feet; thence along 'Lot 36 as shown on- said map,� S. 560 373 10" `W.-162.0 feet.-to ordinary high water mark- of Gull Pond; thence along said high water mark, northerly and then westerly 280 feet more or less to land of Ruth Preston and Others; thence along said -land of :Ruth Preston and -Others two courses: (1) N. 210 248 20" W.-50 feet; thence ,(2) N. Z00 503 10" W.-389.05 feet; thence along land of Yuma Corp. , N. 210 00 00" W.-496.27 feet; thence along c 4 . Southold Town' Planning Board -9- November 9, 1965 land of_Dawn' Estates ` Shopping Center ' on a line ,parallel to said c:�.southerly line of Main Road, and 375'.O feet southerly therefrom, N. 66° 39' 50" E.-505,,35 feet to the point- of 'beginningr containing 12.32 acres. Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young. The Planning Board briefly discussed Eastern Shores at Greenport and their fullfillment of the Town requirements. No further action was taken in this matter. On motion by Mr. Grebe, Seconded by-Mr. Moisar it was RESOLVED that the minutes of the 'Southold Town Planning Board dated October 19,. 1965, be approved as submitted. Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young. Mr. Howard Terry, Building Inspectors, reported that the . Southold Town Board has given their final approval to the amendments to the rules and regulations for ' the subdivision of land in the Town •of'Southold. The next regular meeting of 'the' Southold Town Planning Board will be held on -December 15r 1965, at 7:30 P.M.r at- the Town Officer Main Road, Southold, New York. A joint meeting will be held with the Riverhead Town Planning Board at 8: 00 P.M. , on TVesdayA November 23, 1965, at the Town '.Office, Main-Road, Southold, New York. - The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 P.M. Respectfully submitted, I Barbara C.- Dittmann j.- Secretary C`i JOHN WICKHAM,- CHAIRMAN