HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-12/15/1965 Av
Southold Town Planning Board
S O UTH O LD, L. I., N. Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
Archibald Young
William Unkelbach
M .I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
December 15, 1965
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board
was held at 7:30 P.M. , Wednesday,- December 15.r 1965, at the
Town Office, Main Road,- Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John'Wickhamr- Chairmang Henry
Moisa, Archibald Young.
Absent: Mr. William Unkelbach and Mr. Alfred Grebe. (weather
did not permit flying from'Fishers Ibland. )
Also present: Otto Van Tuyl, - Consultant+, Howard Terry,
Building Inspector; Lawrence Tuthill,' Professional Engineer.
THE CHAIRMAN: I will open the hearing on' Cleaves Point,
Section III, by reading the legal notice.
"NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of
the Town Law public hearing will be held by the Southold Town
Planning Board at the Town Officer, Main Road, - Southold, New
York, in said Town on the 15th day of December, 19650, at -7:30
o'clock in the evening of said day on the question of approval
of the following plat:
"Plat of property owned by Dawn Estates Builders Corp. ,
entitled Cleaves Point, Section III.r at Greenport, consisting
of a parcel of land 12.32 acres, situated near Greenport, in
in the Town of Southold,- Suffolk County, New York, and bounded
and described as follows:
Southold Town Planning Board -2- December 15 1965
"Beginning at- a point on the westerly line of a 50 foot
private road known as Maple Lane.. 390.88 feet southerly along
said westerly line from the southerly line of the Main Road,
from said point of beginning running along said westerly line
of Maple Lane, three courses: (1) S. 31� 30' 00" E. 239.80
feet; thence .(2) S. 36° 301 00" E.-3 00.0 feet; thence (3)
S. 300 231 40" E.-180.24 feet to the northerly line of a
proposed 50 foot-highway to be known as "Snug Harbor 'Road"z
as shown on "Map of Cleaves Pointy Section II".. filed in the
Suffolk-County Clerks office as Map #3521; thence along said
,northerly line of "'Snug Harbor Road"-,,, S. 56° 371 10" W.-103.40
feet; thence along the northwesterly line of said "Snug Harbor
Road",,- S. 19° 303 00" W.-437. 95 ' feet; thence along the westerly;
line of ' said "Snug Harbor 'Road",, S. 330 229 50" E.-10.69 feet;
thence along -Lot 36 as shown on said map, S. 560 373' 10" W.-
162.0 feet to ordinary high water mark of Gull Pond; thence
along said high water mark, northerly and then westerly 280
feet mom or less to land of Ruth Preston and others; thence
along said land of' Ruth Preston and others, two courses:
(1) N. 21° 249 20" W.-50 feet; thence ;(2) N. 20+ 503' 10"
W.-289.05 feet; thence along land of Yuma Corp/s N.- 21° 00'
00" W.-496.27 feet; thence along land of Dawn Estates Shopping
Center on a line parallel to said southerly line of the Maine
Road: and 375.0 feet southerly therefrom: N.. 66* 391 50" E.-
505.35. feet to the point- of beginning.
"Any person desiring to be heard on the proposed subdivision
should appear' at the time and place above specified.
"DATED: November 9, 1965r By order' of the' SoutholdrTown
Planning Board.._ John Wickhame Chairman. "
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Van Tuyl$ I heard you say that we don't
have the final maps herea however,t I see no reason why we can't'
run through the hearing. If everything is in order we can recess
the hearing until we get the maps.
I have a letter here from the Superintendent of 'Highways
approving the layout of the roads in the subdivision.
;(Chairman read the following letter) :
"THe Planning Board, Town of Southold= Southold; New York
"Gentlemen: I have inspected, the ,map and approve the
lay-out of the proposed roads at-CLEAVES POINT, Sec. 3.,
Greenportz New York.
Southold Town Planning Board -3- December 15s, 1965
"Very truly yoursi /s/ Harold D. Price,,. Sup=t of Highways. "
THE-CHAIRMAN: It is our understanding that you .are going
to have city water.
MR.' KAPLAN: We have . a letter.
- Chairman read the following letter:
"Dawn' Estates. Builders 'Corp. j East-Marion?. New York.
"Gentlemen: Please be advised that the Village intends to
supply municipal water to .your proposed development east of
the Village at-East Marion: . New Yorks in -accordance with its
usual terms and conditions.
"Very truly yours.,, /s/ Stanle.y..S. Corwinz, Village Attorney".
The above letter was. placed on file.
THE -CHAIRIKAN:- Nowz there is one other thing we are
concerned with and that is the park- and playground area.
MR - KAPLAN: We have' spoke about that.
(The'Chairman requested the secretary to And in previous
minutes the discussion- of the park and playground requirments
for'Cleaves Point. )
THE 'CHAIRMAN: Meanwhile= we will continue with the hearing
by asking anyone in opposition to this subdivision to speak -at
this - time.
\ LESTER SHAPRIO: CI represent the Cleaves ' Point' Property
Owners association. We ask that certain restrictions go along
with this subdivision. - We have just invested $2.r000.00 in
the roads and another $500.00 to maintain them. I believe that
the previous owner was under obligation to maintain these roads
and I wonder if the new owner is not also obligated to maintain
them. We are interested in keeping Osprey Nest-Road private as
it is in the present .subdivision.
Southold Town Planning -Board December 15,, 1965
THE. CHAIRMAN: Please bear in mind that I am not an
attorney and neither can advise you or tell you anything at
this time without- talking to legal council. What exactly
can be done about these- roads I do;,,.. not know at this time.
One thing we can do, which is sometimes very effective is
ask the building inspector to inspect the roads. If he finds
that -the roads are in bad condition, we can say that no
building permits will be issued in that section until some—
thing is done with the roads. This can be quite effective
if there are very few homes built.
MR KAPLAN: Dr.- Shaprio, you said you represent the
Cleaves .Point'Civic Association in this matter. Did you
have a meeting on this matter.' .
MR,' SHAPRIO: The Board of Directors, which I am a
member' of, had a meeting.
MR KAPLAN: I am a member of the association and I have
no knowledge of this. I think he is unauthorized to speak
for the association on this particuhr ,matter.
MR.' SHAPRIO: The Board of Trustees have the power to act
for the association between the regular meetins.
One other point Nave here, the property of 'Dawn Estates
Shopping 'Center was put -"up for a change of zone. Some 200
residents of' this area came forth to oppose this change of
zones through petitions and so forth. This property is
right- on the road and probably will be up for a change of zone
again. If the Board grants this subdivision,, could they
put conditions. on it so that the adjoining property would
not be down zoned to business at some future date?
THE CHAIRMAN: You will have to keep in mind that the
Planning Board does not have any say in change of zone
applications. We can only recommend, and say that when
the time comes for this particular peice of property to
be changed to business, that you appear and persumably you
will have some influence. However: this is not pertinent
to this hearing.
I
(An adjoining property owner stated that she had not
heard. of the petition to change the zone on the property
just discussed. However, this is not pertinent to the
hearing.)
Siputhold Town Planning Bca rd --5-» December 15i 1965
MR.. SHAPRIO: Having to do more directly with this hearing
I am- concerned with this lagoon that-will be created. I wonder
if this will not effect Gull Pond and if it could take all
the boattraffic that probably will come.
THE- CHAIRMAN: The Planning Board does not have jurisW ction
over established waterways. We have taken recent steps on
this matter. Waterways that are to be constructed in the
future must meet our approval4 but we obviously can't-make
this retrospective and retroactive. There are some, 200
miles - of waterfront in the Town of' Southold. We would be
taken on an impossible job. The Town Trustees .have
jurisdiction over all waterways. You may be interested to
know that we have insisted on arrangements for this lagoon
:that is to be constructed. Howevere this doesn't have any
bearing. on the inlet to gull Pond.
THE' CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor
of this subdivision?
MR. KAPLAN: I would like to- anser any possible questions
that-Dr. Shaprio might have. Dr.� Shaprio speaks strictly on
his own. There wasn"t even a meeting of the Board of. Trustees'.
I belong to the' Cleave Point=.Association and it was agreed
that-we would all participate and contribute and share in the
maintenance of the roads. It was all passed to,,cjive out to
a local contractor. Legally.we have inherited nothing.
THE CHAIRMAN: May I say that your position in the eyes
of the Planning Board is not very good. We had lenghty
discussion with the previous owner and developer to be sure
that there would be some protection made available so that
this could be dedicated to the Town. We have even a letter z4;:`!
of intent from hima which he obviously neglected to give
to you.
MR.' KAPLAN: The previous owner 'had passed away when we
took over,
(A question was raised about the rights given to the
people in the previously established sections of Cleaves
Point, Mr. Kaplan stated that the rights that were given
with the property previously can not 'be taken away. This
would include the beach rights. )
v
Southold Town Planning Board --6- December 15, 1965
i
THE' CHAIRMAN: Do any members of the Board wish to
say anything:
MR. _YOUNG: It seems to me as a Planning Board we have
to take death into consideration. We have to look out for
the interest of the people in' Southold Town.,t if not, there
will be no beach property for these people to use. We try
to do everything that we can to simplify problems that -might
arise in the future. I, was born .on a farm down here. I
know this property pretty well. Talking personallyr It is
my opinion to try to preserve the area as muuch. as ,we can.
We. try not to make. too many mistakes. I -am not critizing
anyone,. I am sitting here as a member of the Planning Board.
I think -that - everything should be cleared up now and
everything we say should show in our records.
MR. MOISA: I think -Mr.- Young has stated everything.
I think everything should be taken into consideration.
THE CHAIRMAN: If no one else wishes to be heard on this
subdivision.. Twill declare the hearing recessed until the
estimate for the performance bond for the roads and watermains
is . submitted and the Town Board accepts the sufficiency of .
said bond, and until the final maps are presented tothe
Planning Board®
THE. CHAIRMAN: Now:, about,;:: this park and .playground.area.
We will require a committment on your part that a section of
this beach will be guaranteed.
MR. KAPLAN: It can be worked out with council.
— THE CHAIRMAN: We are going to, insist on it before we file
the map. . Do you -want me to. discuss it- with council or would
you rather do it.
MR.. KAPLAN: Yes,
THE CHAIRMAN: I would suggest that you would use this beach
front as a matter of insurance for dedication.
MR. KAPLAN: I don't think the rest of the residents. would
dike it. They don't want other people in there.
THE CHAIRMAN: This happens time and again. - People buy
homes in the country, want roads private and the area
isolated. In timei maintenance of the highways and snow
removal become more and more important' to them. That is
'Southold Town Planning Board -7- December 15,1965
why we are so insistant that there is -an area in this for
park: and playground area for dedication when the time comes.
If these roads were dedicated to the Town it would relieve
the property owners of the maintenance of them for all the
years to come.
MR. SHAPRIO: The property owners don't want the roads.
THE' CHAIRMAN: The property owners association could request
that these roads be dedicated to the Town, and we insist that
beach .front is necessary for dedication. Again; based on.
the experience we have hads it would be better. to have these
roads made public.
MR.' KAPLAN: I have made attempts of turning the roads
over to the Town. I met with Harold Price. Before the roads
could be turned over they would need to meet with the
Present highway specifications. They would need to be, regraded
and we would have to take out many trees. It would be too
expensive. Our association would be very happy to put the
roads in shape without the necessity of regrading and cutting
dow,dtrees. There is a provision that the Superintendent of
Highways can waive certain .requirements. Mr. Price just
wont be reasonable.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have never been able to speak for the
Town. We want to be sure that we fullfill all the requirements
for dedication ' to make it possible for'you�or the residents
to have the roads dedicated.
MR.' KAPLAN: The property owners want their cake and
eat it too.
THE' CHAIRMAN: May I say that this is a problem the
Planning Board has faced year after year. It has been our
decision to twist peoplet's arms whenever possible. Another
thing,:, the size of the waterfront area has something to do
with dedication in the eyes of the Town Board,
The Chairman and Mr. Kaplan further discussed the park j
and playground requirements. Mr. Kaplan assured the Chairman
that it would be taken care of.
Southold Town Planning Board -8- December 15s, 1965
Mr.- Harold Reese appeared before the -Board to discuss
the proposed subdivisions Harbor'Lights Estatess Section II.
He also wanted to discuss the beach rights in regard to the
subdivision. He presented the Board a letter written by his
attorney in regard to the beach rights already given to the
people in the subdivision. Mr. Reese stated that he had
already talked to some of the people who have already ,bought
lots and they were not' at all in favor of giving up any of
their beach rights.
The- Board and Mr. Reese discussed the dedication of roads
in relation to giving some. waterfront to the Town for the
dedication of the roads. The' Chairman said that he would
answer the letter from Mr. Reese=s attorney if this was
agreeable with Mr. Reese-, Mr. Reese agreed.
Mr. Reese pointed out the proposed park and playground
area on the map of Harbor'Lights" Estates. - After further
discussion on this proposed subdivision no further' action
was taken.
Mr. Sturn and Mr. Morgan appeared before the Board to
seek preliminary approval of Eastexi Shores at Greenports
Section IV. This section will contain 17. 1ots and have
city water. Mr. Van Tuyl presented the preliminary maps
of -Section IV.
The hairman read the agreement with Eastern Shoress Inc.
for the issurance ,of' a park:.and playground area. The copy
of the agreement in the file was an old copy. Mr.- Sturn .
presented the revised copy of the agreement for the park and
playground area. The- Chairman stated that he had been
authorized to sign the agreement and he had done so.
The Chairman stated that everything seemed to be in order
to grant Eastern Shoress, Section IV preliminary approval.
On motion by Mr. Youngs seconded by Mr. Moisay, it was
RESOLVED that the subdivision to be known as ' Eastern
Shores at Greenporti Section IVs located on the North Roads
Greenporti. New Yorks be granted preliminary approval. This
is owned and developed by H.J� :S Land and Development'Corp.
preliminary map by Otto Van Tuyl & Sens dated' September 15,1965.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham., Mr. Moisas Mr. Young
Southold Town Planning Board -9- December 15, 1965
William -Wickham a Esq. appeared before the Board to discuss
the property of Margaret'_ V. Braatz, in regard to a subdivision
to be known as "Vanston. Park. "
Mr. Wickham wanted to discuss the hoat and bathing situation.
Mr. Wickham's idea was to put small slips out for each resident.
Howard Terry advised that there couldn='t be alot of privately
owned slips. Mr. Wickham stated that all the slips would be
owned by the association and each owner would have use of
a slip.
THE 'CHAIRMAN: It is my understanding that you brought this
in for ' our approval with four interior lots. If this meets
with the approval of this Board you won�,f_ have to bring it
back - again. You will have .to go to the Board of-Appeals to
get- approval of access. You will have to make it clear to them
that these moorings would be owned by the association or
proprietor.
Mr.- Wickham Stated he was in no hurry for ' this to be
passed. After discussion no further action was taken in
this matter.
William Wickham: Esq. appeared before the Board in regard
to a piece of property owned by Peter Harvey Dury,Estate located
on the corner of Westphalia Avenue and Middle Road (C.R.- 27)1' ;
- Mattituck.. New York. This parcel of ' land in question contains
3.33 acres. Mr. -Wickham-is interested in having this parcel
of land changed to business to be used as a gasoline station
and general business. The' Chairman advised Mr. Wickham that
the' Planning Board would investigate this matter.
William-Wickhamqappeared before the Board in regard to
the application of:Martin_C. Nelsenr 257 River _Road,, Smithtown,,
New York... for a change of zone from "A" Residential and
Agricultural District to "B;2" Business District on certain
real property located at Greenport: in the Town of Southold,
Suffolk'County= New York. and .more particularly bounded and
described as follows:
I ,
Southold• Town. Planning Board -10- December 15,, 1965
BEGINNING at the intersection .of the southerly line of Middle
Road, with the easterly line of Moores"Laney from said point
of beginning running along said southerly line of 'Middle-Road.,
three courses: ,(l) N. 66* 098 10" E.- 96.51 feet; thence
(2). N. ..690 022 10" ' E.- 985.10 feet; thence ;(3) N. 710 28z 20"
E.- 312.64 feet; thence S. 16= 013 90" E.- 600.0 feet; thence
S. 69� 203 3011 "W.- 1381.31 feet to said easterly line of
Moores 'Lane; thence along said easterly line., N. 170 153' 00"
W.-- 600.0 feet to the point of beginnings - containing 19.303 acres.
This change of zone had been favorably recommended to the
Town Board by the Planning Board.
Mr.- Wickham advised the Planning Board that this application
would be withdrawn. He stated that his client did not have
sufficient finances to carry out his plans at the present- time'
or in the very near future and Mr. Wickham did not feel that
he could represent- the client knowing that it would be some time
before his plans would become a reality. The' Chairman advised'
Mr.- Wickham that there.- was a great deal of opposition to this
change -of zone. Mr. Wickham stated that he was aware of
this, however. this was not- the reason the application is
being w ithdrawni
The Planning Board received from -the Town Board the
original -petition of George A. Barzac,, Jr. . relative to a
change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District
to "B" Business'District on certain real property located
at Southold, in the Town of Southoldr Suffolk County,, New- -
-
York, with instructions to prepare any_'; official report
describing the conditions therein. This change of zone
is requested for the maintenance of a beauty parlor.
The property in question is bounded and described as follows:
All that tract or 'parcel of lande situates lying and
being in- Southold,, in the Town of Southoldr -County of Suffolkri
and State of New Yorks bounded north by other land of George i
A. Barzac, Jr.. 200,, feet; east by other land of George A.
Barzac$ Jr.,,. 160 feet, south by land of J.H® Cassidy '200 feet;
and west by Boisseau-Avenuer 160 feet.
on motion by Mr. Moisar seconded by Mr. Young,, it -was
Southold Town Planning Board -11- December 15, 1965
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board unfavorably
recommends to the' Southold Town Board the change of zone from
"A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business
District on the property of 'George A. Barzac: Jr. as described
above..
The Board feels that-the type of business the applicant
proposed would be unsatisfactory in this particular neighborhood,
due, to the use of the adjoining property which is a potato
grading station. The potato grading stating., the noisea 'dust,
dirt, and trailer trucks backing in and out all contri-bute: to
making this .an unsatisfactory location for the type of business
proposed.
Vote .of the Board: Ayes:--Mr, Wickham, Mr, Moisa$ Mr, Young,
The' Planning Board received from the Town Board the
original petition of. Harold E. Tuthill,, relative to- a change
of' zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to
"B." Business District- on certain real property located at
- Southold, in- the Town of Southold, - Suffolk'County$ New York,
with instructions to prepare an, official report describing
the .conditions therein. This change of zone is requested
for use of the property as a real estate office and contracting
business. This property in question is bounded and described
as follows:
BEGINNING at a point on the curved southerly line of
Middle Road at the northeasterly corner� of land of. George Braun
and the northwesterly .corner of premises herein described;
running thence easterly along said southerly line of Middle Road
on a curve to the left having a radius of 2325.01 feet, a
distance of 325.08 feet; running thence along other land of
Harold E. Tuthill$ south 8 degrees 57 minutes 30 seconds
east a distance of 263,42 feet to land of Buooi; running thence
along said land of Bucci, South 81 degrees 16 minutes 50
seconds west a distance of 300 feet to said land of George
Braun; running thence along said land of Braun,, North 8 .
degrees' 57 minutes 30 seconds west a distance of 137.59 feet
to the point or place of beginning. Said premises containing
one and. one-third acres, be the same more- or, less.
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Southold Town Planning Board -12- December- 15, 1965
On motion by Mr.- Young,, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that the ' Southold Town Planning Board
favorably recommend to the' Southold Town Board the change of
zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to
"B" Business District on the property of Harold- E. . Tuthill as
described above.
The Planning Board points out at this time that the County
highway will probably be widened on this dside of the high--
way, which may present some problems.
Vote of ' the Board: Ayes:- Mr, Wickhama Mr. Moisa, Mr. Young
On motion by Mr. Young, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that .the mmnutes of the' Southold Town Planning
Board dated November 9, 1965, be approved -as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- -Mr. Wickham,. Mr. . Moisa,t Mr.. Young
On motion by Mr. Moisar seconded.,by Mr. YoungZ it was
RESOLVED that the' Southold Town Planning Board recommend
to the Southold Town Board an estimated performance bond .of
$19,000.00 for the completion of the roads and water mains in
the subdivision to be known as ' "Cleaves Point,- Section III%
located at greenport and owned and developed by Dawn'Estates
Builders Co3E,
Vote of the Board: Ayes:Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Young
The Board again held a brief discussion on the dedication ;
of waterfront at Harbor 'Lights` Estates, Bayview, Southoldr,
owned and developed by Harold Reese.
The next meeting of the Planning Board will be held jointly
with other boards of the Village and Town in regard to the Master
Plan. This meeting will be held at- the' Supervisorr's Office, 16
South Street, Greenport,, New York, On January 12,E 1966,
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 P.Me
Respectfully submitted,.
c A'h�"'
a-�—
arbara C.- Dittmann, Secretary
JOHN WICKHAM,- CHAIRMAN