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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-10/21/1991 y / o�ogAFF011v O ®� Gym PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS SCOTT L. HARRIS Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman Supervisor George Ritchie Latham, Jr. Richard G. Ward Town Hall, 53095 Main Road Mark S. McDonald P.O. Box 1179 Kenneth L. Edwards Southold, New York 11971 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE Telephone.(516) 765-1938 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Fax (516) 765-1823 SOUTHOLD. TOWN PLANNING BOARD MINUTES OCTOBER 21, 1991 Present were: Bennett Orlowski Jr. , Chairman G. Richie Latham, Member Kenneth Edwards, Member Richard Ward, Member Mark McDonald, Member Melissa Spiro, Planner Jane Rousseau, Secretary Absent were: Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Holly Perrone, Secretary Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting, to order. First order of business is Board to set Monday, November 18, 1991 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr,. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed. So ordered. Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: `SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 2 OCTOBER 21, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3 .748 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Lane in Mattituck SCTM #1000-113-8-5. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that this public hearing be kept open while the applicant goes ' to the Zoning Board of Appeals as directed by the court order. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Final Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Mattituck Creek Estates - This major subdivision is for six lots on 19.1220 acres located on the southwest corner of Mill Road and Grand Avenue: in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-107-2. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the following motion. WHEREAS, James Cohill is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM #1000-107-1-2, located on the southwest corner of Grand Avenue and Mill Road in Mattituck; and WHEREAS, this major subdivision., to be known as .Mattituck Creek Estates, is for six lots on 19.122 acres; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8) , Part 617, declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on June 30, 1989; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was. closed on said lot-line amendment application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on September 30, 1991; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold have been. met; and be it therefore, SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 3 OCTOBER 21, 1991 RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final approval on the surveys dated August 13, 1991, subject to fulfillment of the following conditions. These conditions must be met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution. 1. Submission of a Draft Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions including all Covenants and Restrictions requested in the Planning Board's October 1, 1991 correspondence, and acceptance of same by the Planning Board and Town Attorney. Upon acceptance, the Declaration must be filed in the office of the County Clerk, and copy of the filed document must be submitted to the Planning Board. 2. Submission of final maps. (5 maps prints and 2 mylars) all containing the following: a. A valid stamp of Health Department approval; b. A notation that. a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions has been filed, and an indication of the 'Liber and Page number. c. The "Open Space Easement" shown as part of Lot Number 1 is to be re-labled as "Agricultural Reserve Easement Area. " d. The actual building envelope, with the proper setbacks, is to be indicated for Lot 1. 3 . Submission of six (6) Road and Drainage Plans revised in accordance with the Engineering Inspector's report dated September 10, 1991. 4. Submission of a Letter of Credit, cash or a Performance Bond from a recognized. bonding company, in the amount of the approved bond estimate ($77,900.00) , and acceptance of same by the Town Board. 5. Submission of the inspection fee in the amount of $4,674. 00. 6. Submission of the Park and• Playground fee in the amount of $10,000. 00. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. ) SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 4 OCTOBER 21, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Setting of Preliminary Hearings: Mr. Orlowski: West Mill Subdivision (M. Paul Friedberg)This major subdivision is for ten lots on 22.106 acre located on the west side of West Mill Road in Mattituck. SCTM #.1000-106-9-4. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town. Planning Board set Monday, November 18, 1991 at 7: 30 p.m. for a preliminary public hearing on the maps received by the Planning Board on October 4, 1991. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in .favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, , Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Preliminary Extensions Mr. Orlowski: Cornfields - This major subdivision is for ten lots on 20.995 acres located on the east side of Young' s Avenue; approximately 500 feet north of Middle Road (CR 48) in Southold. SCTM # 1000-55-2-9.1. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six (6) month extension of preliminary approval from October 30, 19.91 to April 30, 1992. The Planning Board has granted this extension in order to give you additional time to explore alternative measures to subdividing to parcel. Please note that this is the last extension that the planning Board will be granting. Mr. Latham: Second. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 5 OCTOBER 21, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Sketch Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Michael Adams- This minor subdivision is for two lots on 71.42 acres located on Sound Avenue in Mattituck. SCTM 41000-121-5-4. 1. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board reaffirm its sketch approval based on the revised map dated February 7, 1991. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Petrol Stations, Ltd.. - This minor subdivision is for four lots on 5.836 acres located on Main Road, 264. 57 feet west of Alvah' s Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM # 1000-109-1-23. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch approval on the maps dated .Tune 28, 1991 with the following conditions: 1. The building envelope for Lot two is to be revised so that it is at least 175 feet in width at the building line. Mr. ,Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 6 OCTOBER 21, 1991 Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Review of Reports: Suffolk County 'Planning Commission Mr. Orlowski: Thomas Shalvey - ,This proposal is to set off a 1. 837 acre parcel from a 21.782 acre parcel located at the southeast corner of Middle Road (CR 48) and Bridge Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM # 1000-84-2-2. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED to adopt the October 2, 1991 Suffolk County Planning Commission report with the following amendments (numbers correspond to numbers in report) ; 1. Is to be omitted. Existing driveway is sufficient for turnaround. 2.. Is to be omitted. Only one house has ingress and egress along the county road, the second house has ingress and egress along Bridge Lane. Numbers 3 and 4 are to be omitted. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency Process: Mr. Orlowski: Michael Adams - SCTM # 1000-121-5-4.1. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. 'SOUTHOLD TOWN. PLANNING BOARD 7 OCTOBER 21, 1991 RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board continue the environmental process which. was started on March 7, 1988. The Planning Board would like to take lead agency on the coordinated review of this Type I action, subject to receipt of a Long Environmental -Assessment Form (LEAF) . In taking this action the Board is responding to new information that the area has been designated as a Special Groundwater Protection Area, and a Critical Environmental Area. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Final Environmental Impact Statement Mr. Orlowski: Angel -Shores , - Board to issue findings statement. SCTM #1000-88-6-1. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that on this day the Southold Town Planning Board hereby adopted the Findings Statement dated October 18, 1991 for the proposed major subdivision of Angel Shores, Section I and II. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would also like to note for the record that the Planning Statement is available in the Planning Board office and libraries and also there have been responses to all comments that were submitted and those comments are also in our file. SITE PLANS SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 8 OCTOBER 21, 1991 SITE PLANS — STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency: Mr. Orlowski: Joseph Hardy - This site plan is for a supply building .on 2,400 square feet located on Route 25 in Mattituck. SCTM * 1000-114-11-5. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town- Planning Board start the coordination process on this unlisted action. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. APPROVAL OF THE PLANNING BOARD MINUTES Mr. Orlowski: Board to approve the August 12, 1991 and September 9, 1991 minutes. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, .Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: There is nothing left on my agenda, but I believe we have some people here from the Brewer Yacht yard that would like to discuss their site plan. Mr. Dan Nachez: Good evening, I represent Brewer Yacht yard in Greenport. We are here probably to try and get some direction because we keep getting different signals from different people and Brewer is at the point where for months, we -SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 9 OCTOBER 21, 1991 have been trying to get everybody' s opinion tows where to relocate the pool and the yacht club building. We are at the point now where we have to move ahead. in order for them to have a functional facility for the yacht club for next spring and in order to do that they have to pour a slab now. We realize the pool and other things we have to go through the formal process , but they are hauling boats and this is a working operation. It is the nightmare of trying to run a business and. also accommodate everybody in the entire process. Originally...we had it' on the peninsula, we got some concerns that this might be too close to a wetlands even though on the previous maps. . . and after all is said and done, in order to be able to get something moving in order for it to be done for the place to be operational in the spring. What we have done is we sent to Valerie Scopaz a tentative site plan but, we're not asking for your approval, I guess what we are asking for is your consent of direction in an informal matter. I guess that is the best way of saying it. I assume you all have a copy of what we sent, if not, we have copies. Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we have copies here. Mr. Nachez: Basically, in order to accommodate the various and .different concerns, everything out of the seventy-five foot set-back, I move we relocate it to . . . This is the entire site which was originally located down here. We moved it. back. to here. It was going to be a building at that point anyway which was going to be for bathrooms and showers; and it also is where the electrical transformers out of the ground are creating an obstruction so what we had suggested, is that you just put the whole thing here. Actually eliminates one structure in the area. The yacht club building can then be altered with your approval over time to accommodate the showers and bathroom facilities that were going to be for the yard .anyway. We were asked to give you a parking plan but we have given you a tentative parking plan and traffic flow. I must admit it was done fairly quickly but it shows very clearly- that there is more than sufficient land area for all of the parking to be accommodated and for the traffic flow not to interfere with the area of the pool or the proposed area where we would like to put the pool at this. point in time assuming that you all feel that that is a reasonable approach to continue Mr. - Ward: Your reason for location in getting your approvals. for the other side?. Mr. Nachez: We. have been at this conceptual stage with the town now for several months trying to get everybody's input. The last word we got back was, it seems fine but then the question is that it may be too close to the wetlands and the problem is that we can't go through all the paper work to find out several months from now that somebody is concerned that doesn't want it there from the Town's advantage point and therefore it should be moved. If that is the case you are not 'SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 10 OCTOBER 21, 1991 going to have anything for this coming season which is, we're talking about the summer of 1992, we have to do things a little early in order to achieve that. What this does is with a little razzle dazzle all the work buildings will be located in a line which probably from the planning advantage point makes sense anyway. Ideally, it would have been conceptually I think nicer to have it on the peninsula, but where it is now you are going to have to put it a half of a foot to a foot higher in elevation which it does make it a significant difference in terms of the County's requirements in terms of the separation between the bottom of your septic system and your groundwater. We put it down here in pencil, we have talked to the County and they were not uptight in either place their suggestion was, since they are going to have bathrooms in one place just make it bigger and have it one facility, but it was not a requirement.. Unofficial suggestion. Mr. Ward: I find it difficult that you added any concept since the change because the amenities seem much nicer. Mr. Nachez: We thought so but when we got your letter back, or the letter from Valerie, with your comments enclosing the Trustees comments, we saw and were confused and. when we came back to, the Town for a meeting with the Town to try and get clarification of what those comments actually meant,. the more clarification we got, the more confused we became.. It became clear to us that we didn't think that we could. get a reasonable determination in order to have the facility for next year. The Planning Board says, you can put the building there but in no way are we going to approve the pool. Then we're back at square one. We originally wanted to get everyone together so we could try to go through the pros and cons of any concerns anybody had and that was four or five months ago. We came back to the Town with- some conceptual plan saying, I would like to get your input because we want to make. sure that what we' are doing meets with everybody's approval so we do not have any conceptual problems later on, other then that which may be raised by somebody in the public. Mr. Ward: Did Valerie come up with any other problems other than wetlands setback? Mr. Nachez: The Trustees, in their memo that you enclosed, said that it is nicer to have non water dependent facilities located outside of the seventy-five foot setback. Now, you tell me what that means? Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: If it is not boat or boat related. . Mr. Nachez: We had talked with them and originally we had thought that to have it on the peninsula we do have to go back to DEC. They originally approved the pool there but they didn't ' SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 11 OCTOBER 21, 1991 approve the clubhouse next to the pool. They had the clubhouse separated from the pool so we have to go back to them for that, but if the Trustees were not in favor .of it, that advisory letter is another matter we doubt if the DEC would be receptive to trying to ,override some of the concerns that the Trustees might have and we assume that since the Trustees and you had met together and discussed the previous location that it was time to try and rearrange it. Mr. McDonald: Melissa, what is the SEQRA status of this? Melissa: There is nothing on this. Mr. McDonald: And you are asking us to waive the site plan restriction on this building. Mr. Nachez: I don't think there is a site plan restriction on the building. The building is an existing building that is being relocated further away from the bulkhead then where it was before. Mr. McDonald: It's not a new building then. It' s just going on a new spot. Mr. Nachez: We can pour the slab now, without the site plan approval. Mr. McDonald: How could you pour the slab without the site plan approval? Mr. Nachez: Because it is not a building, it' s not a structure. Mr. McDonald: You need a building permit. Mr. Nachez: That is correct. Mr. McDonald: To get a building permit you would have to get a site plan on a. commercial site. Mr. Nachez: We have been led to believe otherwise, but if that is what we have to do we' ll do it. Then we're back to square one. We have been to three. meetings with your staff and we have been led to believe the opposite. Mr. McDonald: Our staff, or Town .Hall? Mr. Nachez: Town Hall, with Valerie Scopaz representing the Planning Board. Mr. McDonald: She indicated you could pour a foundation. ? ' SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 12 OCTOBER 21, 1.991 Mr. Nachez: Her last comment was she needed to verify with you that that would not be a problem, but she did not think that was a problem. Mr. McDonald: Then you would be asking for a waiver of the site plan. Mr. Nachez: Then we would be asking for a waiver for that but we would come back for the full approval and if it was not granted we would have a nice slab but we would not have it for any use. What we had planned to do was raise the building and the pool four feet above grade, that prevents any potential concern of traffic being misdirected into the pool. We have done this in other yards, including the other Brewer yards, it has worked quite effectively. It also adds a nice buffer for landscaping beautification. Mr. Ward: It is hard to fathom that you are going to run this . operation around the swimming pool. It just doesn't seem right. Mr. Nachez: If you take a look at it. Showed the map. A lot of discussion. Mr. Nachez: In terms of the operation, and the boat storage, the pool is open during normal months, Memorial Day to Labor Day. Those are the traditional times that the pool opens and closes. That is what we have drawn in other y_ards., it has not created any interference or any problems in that regard. Mr. Ward: The only items I see here in terms .of the Trustees comments, is where possible, you should be encouraged . . . '(Inaudible) . I think from our position, we would support the original location and I realize you need a permit from the Trustees because of the position of the wetlands. Putting the recreation area in the middle of the parking lot we have a little problem with that in a planning sense because it doesn't seem' to make much sense. Larissa Moskowitz: The grade is going to be raised in that area. Mr. Nachez: There are three things that we are not concerned about. Unless we are being misled by what we were told, that the Trustees were concerned about, they were concerned about having it in that location and they were suggesting moving it and the more you start moving it in towards the bulkhead . . . . Mr. Ward: You met with them on it? Mr. Nachez: Well, we have been trying to meet with everybody. We appreciate your giving us your time. This is the . first time we have been able to meet with any Board. We have been having to go through different staffs and were playing SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 13 OCTOBER 21, 1991 almost I said, he said, we said, they said. Everybody has been very cooperative and well meaning but you know for months we have been going around in circles and we have to move in a direction. We have to go back to the DEC because we are a little concerned about what their vantage point is since that seems 'to be changing. Mr. Orlowski: Either way you have to go their anyway. Mr. Nachez: Well, it's behind the bulkhead. Mr. Ward: That's it, I 'm thinking, what is the age of your bulkhead? Mr. Nachez: This bulkhead is last years but there is a pre-existing bulkhead in front of that which actually governs, which was part of the 75 feet so we are exempt from the DEC for this location, we are not exempt from the DEC on the other location. We are from the bulkhead vantage point but 'not from the wetlands vantage point. Mr. Orlowski: You just want to speed things up a little bit. Mr. Nachez: Well, we've been at it for some time as you know. Mr. McDonald: I wonder if you could give us. a week and I will try to set up a meeting with somebody from the Trustees. I'll try to get something definitive. I have a strong feeling I would prefer to see this on that peninsula where it makes a lot more sense as a planner from a planners standpoint and I would think as an amenity it would be a big improvement. Mr. Nachez: We have two logistical. problems which the County has set and they had to really think hard about. If we put it on the peninsula which is where we originally wanted to. Naturally, we were very cooperative and they spent a lot of time with us helping us to go over our figures and calculations and suggesting some of their own that we should utilize and you know it was very constructive, not either a disinterested or an adversarial approach. If we are in this area, over here, we would have to pump everything back into this area for the septic system. There. are sanitary water lines and mains in between where we would be and where we would have to pump to. That presents a big problem in their minds and they are not sure. They did have indigestion and they did cough a lot, they did not gag but they did say they would have to think that one through. Their answer was that until they got an application they probably would not dive an indication- which way they would go. They said from their vantage point it would be against their policy to cross that type of approach. Whereas over here, where we already had a previous approval from them for the original building we had talked to you about some years ago. They were much more disposed, but they .also liked that area in terms of as I say, about a foot higher in grade. Since this is a very SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 14 OCTOBER 21, 1991 shallow area from their vantage point, they think it is a better place in- terms of their facilities. They are just talking about septic systems. Mr. Orlowski: So in other words, you are saying that rather then go through the hassle of getting all of these permits, you would rather put that in the middle of the park. Mr. Nachez: Well, it' s not in the middle of the park, it is to the side, the traffic flow as it is now without anything there except the transformer. All the traffic flows down the road and pairs off according to the buildings at. present, even for the parking, and it goes down this way and out that way. We've shown the number of' required parking spaces but with the exception of two week-ends a year, you don't need that many parking spaces but we are Icomplying to 'code and. ,it is one of the few yards .that has more than sufficient parking. Mr. McDonald: This is your layout and you. have to live with it. When I look at this I understand what you are saying on how you can divert the traffic around it but really you are blocking this island down the middle of the parking lot. I understand it is not indebted in the middle of the parking lot, there is parking all around this thing. Is there not some way that you could create more of an environment around this thing so it's not simply sitting in the middle of this. Assuming that you didn't need those parking spots, there are parking spots on the site. Mr. Nachez: Like I said, this parking layout was put on here to comply with the request that we give 'him twelve. hours from the time we got a phone call to ,the time you had to have something by fax. About twelve hours, since it came at five o'clock. We're really talking about four hours and so all we did was take what was there and massaged it as quickly as we could to get something out. The parking plan is very easily worked out or massaged from what it is on this but we were told that you had to' have something that showed. that you could have the same number of parking spaces as required in- a road that didn't go through the middle of the (inaudible) . Mr. Ward: What would happen with moving this back. to the property line or close to the property line to the west? Not having parking behind it. Mr. Nachez: You could but you would also have the transformer there. The reason we picked that spot is there is already an obstruction there and in order not to create a third .island if you will, what we said that since. the . transformer is already there and there is already an obstruction to traffic that will. always continue to be there, and that is 'new and that has been approved, to take that area and actually raise the grade instead of just being in the middle of whatever, raise the grade four feet and slope it, plant bushes and make it an attractive focal SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 15 OCTOBER 21, 1991 point for your eye both as you drive in and from the water. You can do that if you do raise it four feet from the grade. Mr. Ward: I. guess what I am saying. Mr. Nachez: I know, you're saying put it over here. Mr. Ward: Yes, you are anticipating parking down along the west side. Mr. Nachez: You mean down here? Mr. Ward: Yes. Mr. Nachez: Because people would come down like that and people like to park as close to their boats as possible and I mean this way we can move the whole thing back, I mean we could have done that it just seemed to be the most logical approach with the space. Mr. Ward: Unfortunately, it seems to be the most logical approach because you are forced out from a permit point of view out of pennisula. Mr. Nachez: It's not as if we haven't tried to over the last several months the permit. Mr. Ward: Have you made any applications to file. permits? Mr. Nachez: We purposely chose not to file the application which has been ready for sometime in order to try and make sure that what we were doing would be reasonable from. everybody's vantage point and we have continually been asking for pre-application meetings to discuss what our desires were and what everybody's concerns were and originally it- started that well we would have a joint meeting between you and the Trustees, then it was to be a joint meeting between you and the Trustees and the Zoning Board, then it got to well, nobody wants to meet because you all had too many other things to do, at least that was what it was communicated to us to you being willing to seeing us tonight and that only became because we said listen, we are getting too many cross directions and we are missing too much in the translation and you know we are happy to come at night, we are happy to come during the day, we're just trying to do this 'but you know the yacht club is very uptight that they will not have a facility for the spring unless we get our roller skates on they will not. Mr. Orlowski: Well, let me ask you this, have we helped you tonight? Mr. Nachez: I 'm not sure really, what you told me is that you need a site plan approval for the pad and I' gather what you are SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 16 OCTOBER 21, 1991 saying is that you are not prepared to waive that. And you have asked for a week to make that determination. Mr. Orlowski: I think we have conveyed that we are in favor of putting that pool out on the peninsula and out of the middle of the parking lot. I believe that you also conveyed to us that you have a problem with all of those permits. Unknown- person: Can I ask you a question? We went to the DEC. and while I was talking with the DEC with Dan, their statement was that we possibly could get a variance to put the clubhouse near the peninsula, but we would need a variance from their rulings. To get a variance from their rulings we would have to show hardship and to show hardship we would have to show that there is nowhere else on our property where we could put the clubhouse and a swimming pool. Unfortunately, it is nine and one half acres of land and I can show you fifteen places that' I can put a pool and a clubhouse and I walked out of that meeting and I called Dan and I said Dan, where are we going to put it? Dan drew my pictures and I drew my pictures and the pictures landed where he has drawn them. Mr. Nachez: You see, what has happened is this is a catch 22. Since the site plan was approved with the pool by the DEC,_ they have changed not the regulations but their internal philosophy. They don't want the pool on the peninsula. Mr. McDonald: They've approved. this? Mr. Nachez: They approved the pool. Mr. McDonald: How long ago was that done? Mr. Nachez: That approval continues, it's a site approval. Mr. Orlowski: So it 'is the clubhouse you need? Mr. Nachez: When we asked them and we called the major people who were responsible for the staff veto, they said they don't approve, they only veto. Their answer was, hell will freeze over before they will approve the pool, and we said well, the pool has already been approved by you. They went back and found out that they had approved it. They said well, we changed our philosophy, you can have the pool but you can't have your clubhouse. Mr. Edwards: Do you have a problem with putting the clubhouse in' that other location? I've seen them separate. Mr. Nachez: Well, you can have them separate, but then you have the problem that your clubhouse then gets separated from the pool and we think that from the Planning.vantage point that is less- desirable then together. If you are going to have your two facilities, they should be contiguous or next to each other SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 17 OCTOBER 21, 1991 and not separated by a road .or work area. It just conceptionally from- a planners vantage point that doesn't make any sense. Mike is right, you have to get a variance and you will, and I am sure you are familiar with the procedures in variances. If they were disposed to it, it wouldn't matter. Mr. McDonald: Well, the ' DEC is telling you well, not really. The Health Department is going well, we don't really know. The Trustees are going, it doesn't look too good and we're the only ones saying gee, this is nice. Mr. Nachez: This is a catch twenty-two. Mr. Ward: You have until December. Mr. Nachez: You see, .you really don't, it is not a question of weather. Mr. Ward: We're going to want to see the whole site plan, we're going to want to see .everything so do it and get it into us. If we agree with the site we can then plan a way of getting your footings in the ground. Mr. Orlowski: He is. going to have to put it in the parking lot too. Put it in the middle of the parking lot and put_ it on the site plan, let' s do it the right way. Mr. McDonald: I 'm not so' sure that' I'm prepared. to say that it' s going to end up, you know if we waived him on this, just on this building, we would probably be in violation of SEQRA, .since we have none on this. We would be segmenting this project, knowingly segmenting this project. He is trying to get this thing up and running. Mr. Nachez: The problem is, jet me explain the logistical problem. Mike: Where the building is now, very soon the building will not move to where we would like to put it because there will be boats in the way. It is a physical problem. Mr. Ward: Well, you could move it to the general location where you are going to put it but you are going to have to leave it aside for more footings. Mike: That is an .awful ,lot of money to get the movers in to move it twice. Mr. Ward: It is a pretty small building. Mike: It has been sitting on movable skids for two years and the movers have been kind enough not to bother me too much. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 18 OCTOBER 21, 1991 Girl: We were under the assumption also from the code that because this building is being made more legal by being pulled back farther away from the .bulkhead then it originally was that the need for a second approval was changed into solely the ,need for a building permit and in our discussion with Victor Lessard and Valerie they seem to not have any problem with that. Our interpretation on going with Section ' 100-239.4b number one basically says that. Mr. McDonald: What does it say literally? Unknown person: Literally, it says the following exceptions will apply. Buildings which are. proposed landward are existing buildings. located on lots adjacent to Long Island 'Sound etc. . Mr. McDonald: This is in what section of the code? Unknown person: 100-129.4 Building Setback requirements adjacent to water .bodies and wetlands.. Mr. McDonald: That's fine for a building standpoint but as far as a site plan ordinance goes it says that anything that is none residential, you have to have a site plan. This might as well be a new building. Your saying that it doesn't even exist as a standing structure now, it has no foundation and it is movable, it is just like a trailer. It can be moved any minute. Mt. Ward: We understand your predicament but we need a. site plan to expedite that. Mr. McDonald: We have a good feeling about the plan in general. I would have a great deal of difficulty without a site plan to say go ahead and put up the building. I don't even have a SEQRA determination on this thing and I am going to tell you to go ahead and do this. Mr. Nachez: Who would be the lead agency on this? Mr. McDonald: If you make a site plan application to us, we will_ try to take the lead agency. That is a matter that is up for dispute though if the DEC comes- in and decides they want the lead agency, guess: who looses? Generally, we have always taken lead agency in the ' site plan. Mr. Nachez: Inaudible. Mr. McDonald: If we did a negative declaration, you would be free to do whatever you want. If you did 'a -conditional declaration with conditions such that you couldn't go anywhere else, they would have to be consistent. Of course they are going to watch to see what comes down. Mr. Nachez: There has recently been a case where they have said it doesn't make a difference. Not on" the SEQRA are they SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 19 OCTOBER 21, 1991 denying but under their regulations they are .saying it does not comply' with the letter of the law. Mr. McDonald: In. the long run, the DEC is going to be the impediment because they can hold it up as long as they want since they run the SEQRA anyway. They could tie this thing up indefinitely. You are not going to do something that they are not going to like. Mr. Nachez: You have the right to take that as you- so desire. Mr. Orlowski: We'll let you know in about a month. Mr. Nachez: The commissioner has an extremely large amount of authority in this matter. Mr. McDonald: I_. think from what you are saying, if you want to move ahead as quickly as possible, give us the one with down the parking lot and from my 'standpoint, I am prepared to do everything I can to move ahead. Mr. Nachez: We have been led to believe and let me just clarify one other thing, That you do not grant final site plan approval until you have County Health Department approval so you are talking about four to six months for the County to make their determinations. Mr. McDonald: They told you it is going to be ,four to six months? Mr. Nachez: There staff has been cut in half. Mr. McDonald: There is no Board of Review involved in this thing. Mr. Nachez: They are simply saying it will be thirty days from the time they receive the paper work until they can actually assign it to somebody. They are saying, if you call up, sixty days but it is very clear that you are lucky that in four months if they can actually get back to you. I know who it is going to be assigned to, it is going to be. assigned to me. I have already done most of the calculations and I am going to tell you where I am going to come out but don't ask to to put it in writing or call the Town because I can't. As I said, they have just lost 50% of their staff and they have just been assigned two other programs to administer. There. are ways of overcoming it' and that is to give either conditional waivers or approvals with condition precedence. Mr. Orlowski: .You still need Health Department. Mr. Nachez: I 'm talking about prior to Health Department. You have to have Health Department before you can utilize the. facility.. SOUTHOLD TOWN. PLANNING BOARD 20 OCTOBER 21, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: So if we condition it on Health Department and you don't hear from Health Department? Mr. Nachez: If you put it up and don't use it, you have to take it' down. Mr. McDonald: No matter what happens, the Health Department's got a hold on it. Mr. . Nachez: You see, we already know what the Health Department will do in that site. They have already told us. Mr. McDonald: Then 'you have no concerns. Mr. Orlowski: Why can't the building be moved. over about where it is going to go and then slid on later on. Mr. Nachez: Because you have to the raise the elevation for a slab. Mr. Orlowski: I mean, to get it out of the way for now so you can finish up your boat storage operation and everything else. Mr. Nachez: I have to get the trucker to come in and move it and set it down. Mr. Orlowski: I know it is. expensive but it seems like it is the best way to do it right now because this way you would have it right there and you could get started in early spring and everything should be out of- the way. 0.*K. , I have nothing else left on my agenda. Mr. Dan Ross: Sorry I am late but I was called .into an emergency meeting in Greenport, they are bringing the Regina Maris back. A preliminary map was being considered tonight and if the board has any questions. Mr. Orlowski: Which one was that? Ms. Spiro: We just have the hearing on it. Mr. Ross: I was just wondering if you had any questions? Mr. Orlowski: No questions, all is well. Are there any other questions or comments? Mr. Edwards: I just have one comment. I had the opportunity to be over here on the island yesterday at the Fire District Officers meeting and I was just amazed at the amount of traffic 1 SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 21 OCTOBER 21, 1991 on 25. I think it is dangerous and hazardous for emergency vehicles and I hate to think about what is coming down the road. Mr. Orlowski: I ' ll entertain a .motion to close the meeting. Mr. McDonald: So moved. Mr. Orlowski: All those in favor? Ayes: Mt. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mt. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Being there was no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8: 30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Jane Rousseau Bennett Orlowski Jr. , Ch ';man RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK DATE //I 7 7 HOUR 0 Lew �f 6r� � Town Clerk, Town of Sou Ad