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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/23/1992 c 1 y 2 SCOTT L. HARRIS PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman Oy� O�� Supervisor George Ritchie Latham, Jr. Richard G. Ward Town Hall, 53095 Main Road Mark S. McDonald P.O. Box 1179 Kenneth L. Edwards Southold, New York 11971 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE. Telephone (516) 765-1938 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Fax (516) 765-1823 SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD MINUTES NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Present were: Bennett Orlowski Jr. , Chairman Richard Ward Kenneth Edwards Mark McDonald Valerie ScopaZ, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Holly Perrone, Secretary Absent were: G. Ritchie Latham Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting to order. First order of business is to set Monday, December 14, 1992 at 7: 30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Ward: Second.- Mr. Orlowski: Motion. made and seconded. Any questions on. the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. PUBLIC HEARINGS Subdivisions. — Final Mr. Orlowski: 7 : 30 p.m. Edward ZuhoskiEstate - Proposed amendment to the approved minor subdivision of the Edward SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 2 NOVEMBER 23 . 1-4-92. , Zuhoski Estate to incorporate the 50 ' right-of-way with Lot #.3 . SCTM #1000-102-1-1. We have proof of publication in the local paper and everything is in order for a final hearings. I' ll ask if there are any objections to this amendment? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this amendment? Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this that may be of interest to the Board? Hearing none, any questions from the Board? Board: No questions. Mr. Orlowski: Being there are no further questions, I' ll entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. McDonald: Second.. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the. motion? All. those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald., Mr. Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: I will abstain since it is family. Opposed? So moved. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? .. So ordered. Does the. Board have any pleasure? Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board approve the following amendment to the minor subdivision map for Edward Zuhoski Estates. This minor subdivision was approved and endorsed by the Planning Board Chairman on April 23 , 1984.. The 50 foot right-of-way shown on the endorsed. map for Edward Zuhoski. Estates, is to be incorporated with Lot #3 , of the approved subdivision.. This amendment has been proposed in order to ensure that the right of way will not become a separate parcel upon the sale- of the lots in the Edward Zuhoski Estates minor subdivision. Mr. McDonald.: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. McDonald. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 3 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992 Mr. Orlowski: I will abstain since it is family. Opposed? So moved. Subdivisions - Preliminary Mr. Orlowski: 7 : 35 p.m. Highpoint Woods. a.k.a. Marion Woods - This minor subdivision is for ten -lots on 20.5668 acres located on the north side of Main Road in East Marion. SCTM #k1000-22-3-5 & 5 & 31-4-15..1 & 31-4-15. 2. Mr. Pete Danowski: I am the attorney representing the developers. The applicant Mr. Mandel and Mr. Israel are here before you today. With my letter I have forwarded the preliminary maps and I noted that we had prepared these maps after having a Planning Board Meeting where' we discussed the alternate. ideas on how to develop the site with particular attention. paid to the question of the open space and- the ownership thereof. We prepared a asap from Young and Young which depicted .a restricted building envelope of, the preliminary map also adjusted to reflect the twenty-five foot .natural vegetation buffer, on a border of the lots to the back of the lots that are shown. It has been our firm commitment that this developer as well as for others that the formation. of the homeowners association does very little benefit to the Town. I recognize that at the last meeting Mr. . McDonald and I had: some brief discussion. in the presence of the Board at the meeting, and I recognize since then I have received an engineers report today and a report from the County Planning Commission. However, it has been consistently my position that homeowner' s association don' t benefit anyone. They don' t benefit the people in the Town of Southold. What they end up being is a place to dump garbage and seldom are they maintained as well as they are if they are kept in private ownership. I recognize however that there is a common goal, of creating open space and making sure that structures aren't placed on. a portion of this particular lot if it is kept as a large lot. Therefore we volunteered that we would record with. the. County Clerk' s Office prior to or simultaneously with filing the map a covenant. that would satisfy the Planning Board Members, Planning Staff- or anyone else, legal council included as to it' s form and that covenant would clearly point out that there would be no ability to build outside the limited building envelope. I would also offer, and I brought a copy of the map, that you have before you. an offer to extend the natural vegetation buffer for seventy-five feet around the border of that large lot so that we could not just continue it through lots' one through nine but also include. lot ten. That would at least be able to satisfy some of those people and say not one tree or one leaf should be touched and it would. create that buffer from other houses or from schools or other property. We would keep that buffer in tact and the only necessary invasion of that buffer on the SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 4 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 perimeter that would be able to be commented upon would be the driveway which would have to connect from the road to the limited building envelope. But, with that set we could do that. That. covenant would also say no structures within any of the property except for the limited building envelope and the driveway so you have the open space and it would not be tremendously developed in anyway and it would just permit one large lot owner to own the property. This is similar to other areas where we have agricultural areas where we seek to preserve agricultural open space by keeping a farmer in business or. a young person might want to pursue some form of agriculture. My support on this project is with an argument that certainly I would think all the Board members would sustain which would. override the recommendation. I don't think they also have the ability to say what -they said legally. They made a comment about they don' t think this is a cluster of design and they voted to disapprove the cluster. We have had this discussion once before too about what. New York State law says, no where does it say that you cannot have a variable lot cluster. You absolutely can. So, they are incorrect in making that kind of comment but, I recognize we are going to have to either go back to the County Planning Commission should you chose not to , override or I would- ask you to override because that is the path of least resistance and the quickest way to handle the matter. I do have. Mr. Mandel and Mr. Israel here to answer any questions but we' have discussed a lot of the points before. The tax bills that get sent out by the Town have now been dealt with to correct the idea of taxation of the open space. Taxation goes.. to the individual lot owners, we, can buffer, we ' can covenant, we can do the very same things. to protect open space that you get from the homeowners association and with that said., I would invite any kind of questions or I would ask my clients whether they want to say anything further. I hate to close meetings and then find out I get a resolution of disapproval because I would like to be able to discuss any points or to have the opportunity to have a little give and take. Mr. Orlowski Does the Board have any questions? Mr. Danowski: If I might, I will hand you a copy of the covenant and this can be reworked any way you want by anybody and I will be more than. happy to go back and forth on it. I have yellow marked the map where I' have talked about it to indicate that we could create this buffer around: the perimeter of the large lot and with the exception of the driveway, we could live with that covenant. Mr. McDonald: Is there a time frame on what -we do. with the County Planning Commission Report? Mr. Orlowski: No. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 5 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. McDonald: Did you say you had written covenants. and restrictions? Mr. Danowski: I' ll give you one copy that is prepared today. Mr. McDonald: I would ask that. we hold this meeting open for one more hearing to get a chance to look at the covenants and restrictions and-- to look at the map. Mr. Danowski: Mr. Mandel. wanted. to make a few comments and the Engineering Report obviously Young and Young can get together with the. Town' s Engineers and Town's Planning Staff and address the questions that were raised here. Mr. Mandel: Good evening, Richard Israel and I have been building in Southold for a number- of years now or trying to and I wanted to point out to. you that the objections voiced by your committee in this particular instance are not in conformance with the code in that the code does not require the things that you are asking .us to do. It doesn't require a homeowners association. The Southold Code doesn't require that we leave this land as we are willing to covenant it now. Also, we employe in our work Southold carpenters-, electricians, plumbers and we use local labor and this local labor spends their money in Southold. The people we sell houses to eventually live in Southold and pay taxes. here:. I think that in view of the times., they are pretty rough on everybody and I think items like this should not be held up because of a particular quirk in somebody' s mind that they would like to have: it differently. We are suppose to work within the code. We are working within the code, we don't have any other place to go so I think that our plea in this: incidence that we be approved promptly is more than adequately shown to be a proper factor. Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of this subdivision? Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that may be of interest to the Board? Hearing none, any questions from the Board? Board: No questions. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion we hold it open. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski.: I have a motion to hold this hearing open to ,go over the information just handed. to. us. Any questions on that motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski.: Opposed? So ordered. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 6 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992 .,.._ Ms. Scopaz: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to mention one. thing, I believe that the Code requires that if the Planning Board wants to consider the option put forth by the applicant other than what is specifically set forth in the code, you have to go back to the Town Board for approval, if they would agree to that action. I.f that is the case, we may not be able to resolve this: at the next meeting unless there is a Town Board meeting in between. Mr. Danowski: I think we can take that. under advisement. but I don' t think that is totally accurate but I am aware of what Ms. Scopaz is referring to. That is., traditionally five years ago if you got into a discussion with me on this. you would. say we don' t know of any other way to developp a cluster subdivision other than providing for separate open space area and. you either donate to the Town at that point or a homeowners association. Ms. Scopaz.: I just want to make sure that when we go to the Town Attorney if he says you have to go to the Town Board, I just want. you to be aware of that. Hearing Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Orlowski: Hillcrest Estates, Section 2 This major subdivision is for twenty lots on 22.9. acres located in Orient.. SCTM #1000-13-2-8.2. We are still waiting for. Health. Department approval. I ' ll ask is there anyone out here that has any comments or questions. on this subdivision? Hearing none, .I ' l.l entertain a motion to keep this open. Mr. Ward: So- moved. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions: on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski.: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich- This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3 .743 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Road in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-113-8-5. They are still at the Zoning Board of Appeals and we are waiting for their decision. This is held open since October. 2, 1990. Mr. Edwards: So moved.. Mr. McDonald: Second. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 7 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 , Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATION Final Determinations:: Mr. Orlowski: James. Bitses. —This minor subdivision is. located on the south side of Main Bayview Road. in Southold. SCTM #k1000-87-5-21.1 & 21.2 Mr. McDonald.: Mr. Chairman I would like to make a motion. WHEREAS the applicant has not complied with the requirements to complete the proposed subdivision, which include, but are not limited to, the following: a) the submission of maps which include the land shown as that of Old Town Associates, Inc. , which is land that is not recognized as a single and separate lot by the Planning Board; b) the submission of final maps with a valid stamp of approval. from the Suffolk County Department of Health Services; c) the submission of a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions. acceptable to the Planning Board. and Town Attorney; and. WHEREAS the applicant has submitted maps which are not in- accordance with the original proposed subdivision and. instead propose numerous lot. line changes; and WHEREAS the Planning Board has sent correspondence on numerous occasions notifying the applicant that the maps received fulfilled neither the requirement for the minor . subdivision not the application requirements for the proposed lot line changes;: and WHEREAS, in such correspondence, the Planning Board stated that if the information required to complete the subdivision or the information required- to apply for the proposed lot line changes was not submitted that it would be assumed that the applicant did not wish to proceed further and the file would be closed.; and SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 8 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992 - WHEREAS the Planning Board has received neither the , information required to complete the subdivision nor the information required to proceed with the proposed lot line changes has been submitted. be it therefore. RESOLVED that the. Planning Board deny without prejudice the subdivision application for Katherine Bitses. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.. Any questions. on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered- Preliminary Extensions Mr. Orlowski: M. Paul. Friedberg - This major subdivision is for ten lots on 22.106 acres located on the west side of West Mill Road in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-106-9-4. Mr. Ward.: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of preliminary approval from November 1.8, 1992 to May 18, 1993 . Please note that this is the last extension that the Planning Board will be granting. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and. seconded. Any questions. on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes.: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Setting of Preliminary Hearings Mr. Orlowski: Bayberry Estates - This major subdivision is for eighteen lots on 50. 0171 acres located on the west side of Laurel Avenue; 140 feet south of Yennecott Drive in Southold. SCTM #1000-55-6-35 & 3.6 & 56-1-1. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 9 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to entertain. a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, December 14, 199-2 at 7:30 p.m. for a -preliminary public hearing on the maps dated October 22., 1992. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski.: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. .McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered... Sketch Extensions . Mr. Orlowski: John and. Margaret Guest - This minor subdivision is for three lots on 13 .7 acres located on the west side of Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island. SCTM #1000-6-1-5. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold- Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of sketch. approval from Novembe-r 3-0, 1992 to May 30, 1993. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Review of Reports:: Engineering and Suffolk County Planning Commission. Mr. Orlowski: Highpoint Woods - SCTM #1000-22-3-5 . & 31-4-15. 1 & 31-4-15. 2. This is being held over. Mr. McDonald: I wonder if we could do at this point a review of the report for Begenski subdivision in Cutchogue. I would like to make a motion that we adopt the August 11, 1992 report from Ray Jacobs and the August 11, 1992 report from James Richter. Mr. Ward: Second. i Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions- on the motion? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 10 NOVEMBER 23, -1992 :1 Mr. Cuddy: I am the attorney for the applicant. There were two letters that this Board forwarded to me as the attorney. One I believe was in July and the other was. in August. I have been inquiring for the last two months as to what was going to be .done. Am I correct Mr. McDonald that there was July letter and a August letter? Mr. McDonald.: Yes. These are not letters from you, these are the Engineer' s Reports. Mr. Cuddy: O.K. , but my letter said that the Board didn' t have jurisdiction to do anything but accept the proposals.. I am asking you if there was a July letter, I am Just opening my file now because this wasn' t on the calendar. Mr. McDonald: We are trying to adopt, or proposing: to adopt the. August 11, 1992 letter where he set the specifications for the road. Mr. Cuddy: There was a question here as to a- waiver of the specification. Mr. McDonald: The engineer looked at the road and set some other conditions. Mr. Orlowski: Basically, it is waiving it. Mr. Cuddy: O.K. , I would ask you. to wait until. I find the letters in my file because I am certainly in concerned if one is adopted as opposed to the other. If you would. j:ust give me a moment, I will look in my file. Mr. Orlowski: I think these are the two that you wanted us to adopt. O.K. , we will hold that resolution. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE. CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: William J. Baxter, Jr. This. minor subdivision is for four lots on 2.78 acres located on the northeast side of Griffing Street and southeast side of. School House Road in Cutchogue. SCTM #1000-1.02-5-9.5. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board., acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a determination of non-significance, and grant a. Negative Declaration. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 11 NOVEMBER 23,1992__. The project calls for moderate density land use, in a manner which is consistent with Town zoning. The project does not contain any unique natural or human environmental resources. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the. motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward., Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski- Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS Final Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Bridgehampton National Bank - This proposed. site plan is for a bank and drive up window in an existing vacant building: in Mattituck Shopping Center in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-142-1-2. Mr. McDonald: There are a couple of representatives here with some questions. Mr. Ward: Just out of curiosity, what happened. to the transition type of curb? Mr. McCarthy: There is still a transition. I believe it. was. a fifty foot radius. I believe we have held ,it consistently with the last one because there was: no determination made_ as to what- it should or should not be. Mr. McDonald: Did he talk to the people in the adjacent store? Mr. McCarthy: The determination was made. that. they were going to proceed. and go ahead in front of the adjacent store. We are going to make it a gentle sweep. Mr. Ward: You take a look at that whole approach along there and there needs to be some major work done. Mr. McDonald: That is what he is saying- they are prepared to do right? Mr. McCarthy: We-plan to make the adjustment and not just in front of that end unit but to continue it to the next unit as well: Mr. Ward: Yes, except your plan isn' t showing that. Mr. McCarthy: Actually, it is drawn to scale. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 12 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Ward: Well, that is not going to work. Mr. McCarthy: Do you have an exact number of a radius figure as to how far over it should go? Mr. Ward: No, I think it should. go back to the traffic engineer. Did. anybody look at this? . Mr. McDonald: You. don.'t even have a radius unless you use the inflection point right? Mr. Ward: We are really concerned. about that coming down here, it is like a sharp angle at that point. This should be really renegotiated. Mr. McDonald: Rather than talk about the radius, let' s go back to the (inaudible) . Mr. McCarthy: The only increase you are making from the front is a twelve foot, it is twelve from the face of the present curb so if the front of the one store, I believe is twenty four foot wide and if we came over two stores, that would be approximately fifty feet so you would be gaining twelve feet. Mr. Orlowski.: Are you prepared to do that? Mr. McCarthy: We- are prepared to go out in front of the other stores. Everyone talking. Mr. McCarthy: Can we make this subject to the recommendation of the traffic engineer? Mr. Orlowski: Are you prepared to go with that radius? Mr. McCarthy: I can' t speak for Mr. Cardinale because he isn' t here tonight. We are prepared. to go for what we have on the .plan which does go out in front of- the Radio. Shack Store. Is there a specific number we must go with or should we defer to traffic engineers.. Mr. McDonald.: Is that acceptable? Mr. Ward: It is to me. Mr. McDonald: So, if they want to do that they can go ahead with it. If not, they will have to come back in for modification. Mr. McCarthy: Is there an angle that we are hoping to achieve. Mr. Ward: I think what you have got is (inaudible) here would be, this distance is roughly sixty three. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 13 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 . Everyone talking. Mr. Ward.: The abruptness. of this is going to be a definite problem of somebody coming along. Mr. McCarthy: Would any members of the Board care to meet us on site to see what has actually been. done? Mr. Ward: Sure. Mr. Orlowski: Do you want to do a resolution subject to? Mr. Ward.: yes. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: The only other question that we would have is this. island and we should go ahead with the striping and see if it works. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald.: If you want to set up a date, we will get someone out there. Ms. Scopaz: I think if he revises the map and brings it in we will sign it. Mr. Edwards: Are you are going to go out in the field? Mr. McDonald: Yes, we' ll go out in the field. All you need is a signature. from Benny and all we have to do is get somebody out. there. Mr. Orlowski: If you do that we will sign it. Mr. McDonald: He is asking for somebody to go out there and determine whether it is forty, fifty, sixty or what the number is. Mr. McDonald: How about. doing this, take something like this with a spray can of yellow paint and show us what you have in mind. Mr. McCarthy: I wouold prefer to set up a meeting just so we can settle it once and for all. Mr. McDonald: What he is asking: about is what is the lesser of that curvature.. ' They don' t want to make it any longer than they have to but they want to make it long enough to suffice. Mr. McCarthy: I would like to meet with the whole Board or a representative of the Board that we could both come to a decision on site. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 14 NOVEMBER 23,1992 Mr. Orlowski: How about meeting with us on Thursday afternoon at three o'clock. Mr. McCarthy: O.K. , fine. Everyone talking.. Mr. Ward: How about Wednesday morning? Mr. Orlowski: Seven o' clock or eight o' clock? Mr. McCarthy: Eight o' clock is O.K. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. , thank you. SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency Coordination Mr. Orlowski: LindaTaggart - This proposed site plan. is for. a 930 square foot retail antiques and decorative gift shop located on Main Road in Southold. SCTM #1000-53-2-2. Mr. Cuddy: (on Bagenski)I don' t have any obj-ection to your adopting the August 11, 1992 road requirements. Mr. McDonald.: We have a motion and a second. on that presently. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. , I have a motion made and seconded to approve those two reports on Begenski. Any other questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards-, Mr.. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Cuddy: I want to just briefly review something with the Board because it is material to what you are going to decide tonight. The application by Linda Taggart, in. the spring of this year approximately April 1992. In August of 1992 the Zoning Board of Appeals. rendered a decision granting a special exception and also a variance to the Taggart' s. Since that time, there has been a, great deal of discussion about the. Taggart's application and to what this Board should be doing with it. It has. been my impression continuously and. also the Taggart' s impression that you should be reviewing the site plan and we stress that in my appearances here as far as letters to you and I am sure communications (inaudible) . We were surprised SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 15 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992 to a considerable degree to receive a letter telling. us that you are now -going to ask for an environmental study under the SEQRA considerably because that had been done by the Town Trustees weeks and weeks ago, that application went before the Town Trustees over three months ago. They gave a negative declaration to this. exact application that is before you. I believe that another negative declaration is appropriate. I would ask that you look at that negative declaration, I've sent copies of it to the Board, I've also sent copies. of the. hearing transcript that the Trustee' s conducted. in October of this year which everyone had notice and which probably no one appeared objected, which gave them approval for the building at this site. I don't know of any basis what so ever to be doing a further environmental study, and it would seem to me that an application that has been before this Board for more than six months., has been three months away from Zoning Board approval should now be in the site plan. process and should not be being thrown back into the SEQRA. I don' t know why it is and I am really puzzled that the Board at this point would feel comfortable saying to them that. we want to do this over again. Now, I remind you of something. You apparently have had great misgivings about the Zoning Board' s determination and you apparently therefore also have some misgivings about the Trustee' s determination. There was a case that this Board. worked on with the Zoning Board a year ago called McDonalds which was the McDonalds application in Mattituck. The Zoning- Board took issue with this- Board as to. the SEQRA determination and it was then determined, and I thought this was precedent particularly for this application, that the Board. that had worked on the SEQRA and had made the determination was. the Board that was to continue before and also that it was that Board' s determination, in that case., it was this particular Board., was upheld. The Zoning Board could not vary your determination and I would say if it was good in that case, it certainly has to be good in this case which means the Trustee' s determination should be upheld this time. I don' t know any basis for your doing what you are doing with this.. The SEQRA determination is made, I believe it is final, I believe it is not contestable. at this. point, if you want to amend it for some reason then maybe- somebody should suggest that to us. I would ask that you please proceed with the site plan. The Taggart' s have been waiting for that for six months and. they are here and are more than frustrated and I would ask the Board to please proceed on that basis. Mr. McDonald.: Although I don' t agree with all of your statements, I concur with the fact that the Negative Declaration is in place on this at this time and there is. no-, reas.on to do a SEQRA. All that remains as far as. I can tell from looking at the file is certification from the building inspector and Health Department.. Mr. Orlowski: Where are you with the Health Department? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 16 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr . Cuddy: I think we are. just in the process of submitting to the Health Department. They have been waiting to get the site plan. Mr. Orlowski: Will you have it by the next meeting.? Mr. Cuddy: I would not think so but maybe the meeting after that. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. , you need that for the certification too. Mr. Cuddy: Before you move on. may I ask if that was a positive determination in regards to the SEQRA process? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. , Local. Law Proposals - Local law in. relation to affordable: housing. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion that the comments be forwarded to the Town Board. Mr. .Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made_ and seconded.. Any questions. on the motion? Mr. Penny: I came here as the Chairman of the Legislative Committee to hear the comments of the Planning Board Members and to hear any discussion that might take place on this. I was not. aware that the determination was already made and. a vote is to be taken with their already summation (inaudible) If I am naive or wrong, please correct me. I . am here to answer any questions or comments. Mr. McDonald: Maybe I am under a misapprehension, I thought. that we were requested to make our comments, we were going to make out comments and send them over to you. Mr. Penny: Right. Mr. McDonald: This is not a public hearing on our comments to my best knowledge unless. I am mistaken and unfortunately, .our Town Attorney is not here tonight. To my knowledge, it is not a public hearing, you have requested our comments and we are sending them to you. Mr. Penny: I came here because I have gotten comments: back. in the past to the Town Board that have not been exactly coordinated with the thinking of the Legislative discussions. that we had and to prevent any misgivings. or any misinterpretation of the intent of the law, etc. etc. , I felt SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 17 NOVEMBER 23, -1992 .. that maybe if I came here tonight.. I understand that this is the only forum that you will meet with people regarding this and if I am wrong and this. is not the public forum and this is not the place for this then I will sit. down. Mr. McDonald: To my knowledge, there is no hearing on this. Mr. Penny: I am not suggesting this is a hearing. Mr. McDonald: We are just sending our comments, you are going to have them in a day or two. Mr. Penny: When is it possible for someone to meet with the Planning Board when the Planning: Board discusses comments and, other meetings of this nature. Mr. McDonald: You in particular can call us at anytime. The public makes their comments on local laws when the hearing comes. before you. That is when they make their comments on public laws. We are just giving you our opinion. Mr. Penny: In what public forum has. this. been. dis.cuss:ed? Mr. McDonald: This is the opinion of the Planning Board not the opinion of the public forum. The purpose of the public forum takes place when you hold the hearing. That is. when anybody wants to get a crack at this law gets a chance to come in and get a shot at it. Mr. Penny: Where did this discussion take place? Was it at a public meeting? Mr. Orlowski: It was at the public works session.., yes. Mr. Penny: O.K. then, I am mistaken and that. if I wanted to discuss this along with you with any apprehensions: or any concerns. I might have about. it I should have: come to the work. session. Mr. McDonald: Not necessarily because it is not necessarily so that you are allowed to participate in the work sessi.on. as you know from your work session. That is. a matter of. discretion.. Mr. Penny: It is not a matter of participation but it is just a matter of appearing. Mr. McDonald: Oh yes, you can absolutely can hear. Mr. Penny: If there are questions: that I could offer possibly a response to. Mr. McDonald: Yes, when. we- discuss it at the work session, you can hear it and if you want to make comments. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 18 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Penny: How do I find out about the work session' s? Mr. McDonald: They are published in the meeting list. They are posted daily. Judy hands them out. Mr. Orlowski: See Judy, she posts them. Mr. Penny: I 'm sorry. If I could at the end of this meeting have a copy of the comments, I would greatly appreciate it.. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. . Motion made and seconded. Any questions- on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: - opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Local Law 'in relation to accessory buildings. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion that we forward our comments to the Town Board. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made-and seconded-.. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald,. Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. OTHERS Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Peter Danowski has scheduled an appointment on the North Forty Subdivision. Mr. Danowski.: If you recall, we did get. a final resolution from this Board. back in 1991 and prior to that time I had asked. the Board to reconsider its earlier position regarding the ownership of open space question. Unlike the earlier. map that we had on for sketch with Mr. Mandel and Mr. Israel this is a known agricultural farm beside the Domaleski farm. It was purchased by Gatz and McDowell families and they have gone through the subdivision process. They had advised this Board. that they did not want to form a homeowners association. In fact, they wished , to keep the large open space lotto the rear ,of the subdivision, the south end of it for agricultural purposes with a restricted envelope on the open space area. For a long time we kept the public hearing open prior to your final approval and. we chose not to file the map because you mandated the homeowners SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 19 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 association at that point. We then, a few months ago rediscussed the matter because the McDowell family and the Gatz family had discussed with their kids the deed. out of lots so that homes. could be built for their own children and in attendance tonight we have the Gatz, McDowell families and some of the kids that were involved. In fact, Mr. McDowell' s one daughter works on a horse farm locally in Southold. Town and. one of the questions that came up is whether she could own and- maintain horses on that agricultural open space lot and she would build a house on the front portion of that lot with a restricted building envelope:, again with covenants. and restrictions filed with the County Clerk prior to the map filing.. So, I have asked for this meeting so that you can hear many individual family members- who might be in attendance tonight and you might make any inquiries of them. I also, to - give you an alternate idea, had. Young and Young prepare a revised map that we show three lots in the back breaking up the open space area but guaranteeing again that all of it would be in .the agricultural reserve area. which would show three separate lots. I've been advised that the Board- was not in favor of that split up and so we are back, if I am to understand things correctly with the ownership of that one large lot and just so we are not mistaken I' ll bring out the two maps that I have prepared or had prepared.. Mr. Orlowski: Are they different than this three" large lot map? Mr. Danowski: I think the difference was, the original map that was shown to you that we had the Health Department stamp on was this one. Pass it around amongst yourselves with the open. space area and that is the one we said it wouldn't matter to us which lot, but looking at the map lot seven, eight and nine had a dotted line and, you could actually just make that part of that lot and make a circle and put it here if you want, we have shown this to you before, that we would ask that that bethe map that you approve. The exact same road system the exact same situation. Mr. McDonald: Is that the same idea as Cohill? Mr. Danowski: Mr. Cohill' s situation was different because he chose to come voluntarily before you and ask not to have to build a road. Mr. McDonald: . He reduced. his -density in return. Mr. Danowski: Right, he gave up the road construction for the loss. Mr. McDonald: But, the.. concept is essentially the same in terms of the relationship between the lot and the open space. I -" Mr. Danowski: Yes. That is correct and it would be the same as what we discussed with Mr. Macari' s subdivision, the one. up on SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 2.0 NOVEMBER 2.3 . 1992 _, Bergen Avenue and it would be similar and. that on the variable lot cluster you don' t see as much would be similar to the Blachey subdivision which you considered as well and approved. So, this is not something you haven' t done before and I was present when we had some meetings before a joint committee in the Town Hall. where Mr. Wines was invited over from Southampton Town Planning and you people, I think were probably invited to that meeting and. some of you were in attendance. So, again we keep harping on the idea of what is the benefit of the Town of Southold by forming a homeowners. association. In this particular case, we have family members who want to use the property and build houses. and we want to keep that large lot in agricultural private ownership and I don' t think on a small subdivision that it is fair to say why don't you loose some yield. If I had a developer come in here and he wanted. to add a hundred lot subdivision, not that I think legally you can make them do this but if he chooses to volunteer that information and loose yield, that is another story. This is a very small subdivision, it is thirteen lots. You get through the Gatz and McDowell family, you may use up all of those lots. We have three kids anxious to 'build like yesterday. I have some of them here and we have more kids rolling on the way so this is: the situation where we. are practical, we have local people, we've got. a immediate agricultural need and we can satisfy the family and I can' t imagine that somehow any board member might think that this is not beneficial for the Town. Mr. Ward: Which lot are .you making a .large lot? Mr. Danowski: I could leave that to your choice or I could pick it, . it doesn't matter. I think we have been before you actually picking it before. Mr. McDonald: Have you discussed the covenants and restrictions that were put on Mr. Cohill' s with your clients? Are they aware of what we 'did on that and if so do they have problems with those? It was a rather extensive list of covenants and restrictions. Mr. Danowski: You know, I think the key thing that was a factor in Mr.. Cohill' s that allowed Mr. Cohill or a contract vendee as you aware of Cohill' s to come back before the Board if they wanted to do some form of agricultural use that was more than. what was called for in the covenance. Mr. McDonald: Was that the one that had the agricultural conservation review on it? Mr. Orlowski: Conservation Management Plan. Mr. McDonald.: I was just wondering if you talked. with your client' s and they know that there were extensive list of. covenants and restrictions that we used in that one. If they SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 21 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 read them and if they had problems with specific. aspects of it so we could talk about it right here and now. Mr. Danowski: I think the real practical point is if you talk to any local farmer and he is going to be objecting to any other person telling him how to farm, we recognize what the laws are and we certainly recognize what research has done and we are talking about nitrate loading and. some of those other questions. We don' t have an immediate problem for the use although maybe somebody in the house department might argue with that question. Mr. Orlowski: In Cohill's case there was no problem.. Mr. Danowski: No, there was none. Quite frankly, he was not the farmer at this point. and so he wasn't immediately concerned and had the contract been deeded on the. one lot you could live with the conditions. New tape. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: There seems to be a feeling that if you want to proceed on the basis of one lot attached to the open space. If there is not a major problem with that, make sure. when you do your building envelope on that make sure that you have enough on there for all the buildings., if you are going to need barns, whatever. Make yourself enough room. If you. remember Cohill we barely did it and we were back. Mr. Danowski: Yes. I remember the whole scene.. Mr. Ward: The only question, if it is going to be a horse farm if there could be some consideration to buffers to houses that back into the parcel. Mr. Danowski: Sure. Someone told me you always want to plant trees around a horse farm because lightening strikes and hits the horses.. The only other structure on the open space is that you would want to fence the area obviously so the word structure permit has to be something to do on the perimeter of the property. So, with that comment I would resubmit a new map and. get it stamped and be on our way. Mr. Orlowski: The only comment I have is if you have a irrigation well, I don' t know if there is a way to draw it to keep it into that open space area because that would make that much more viable. You've got to irrigate your pasture. anyway. Mr. Danowski: I have to laugh with Mr. McDowell back there because he remembers the closing and what happened to the 't irrigation pump. Mr. Orlowski: Is it still there? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 22 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992._ ' Mr. Danowski: It left the day after the closing. Maybe it is restored. I think it is back on there now. Thank you very much. **************************************** Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Kapell has scheduled an appointment to talk about Randy Lacy. Mr. Kapell: Have you had a chance to look at this map? Can I approach the Board? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Kapell: What my client is asking to do is to set off the existing buildings on the road front end of this site, on the two acre parcel and would like to do so but leaving a right of way to the remainder lot which is the back of the bulk of the property extending down to the sound for future use in the event that he chooses to develop the balance of the property. Mr. McDonald: There are two questions. that. come to my mind. Of course there was a lot of head scratching when I saw this because when you think of future development it boggles the mind. Mr. Kapell: Well, it is going to be tough to develop. That is why we are approaching it in this fashion at this stage. He would like to get some money out of it. Mr. McDonald: The other thing is, did he include the two acre size. in the lot because he felt he needed to comply with the code or was there a specific reason why the lot was that size because it was conceivable that we could do that as a smaller lot and reserve the remaining area at the time when it is subdivided to put it into the open space. Mr. Kapell: You know what we did? We did apply to the Town Open Space Committee for the inclusion of the farmed portion of the farmed portion of this parcel in the Town. Farmland Preservation Program but they were not encouraging at this time. I know it is a tough lot but on the other hand if you look at East Marion, and what is left in farming up there this might be an important lot. We lost it in Greenport and it is on its way out in East Marion and this is one of the only pieces up there that is still being farmed. As odd as it is, we would like to keep it that way. Mr. McDonald: The other problem of course is the angles in the roadway leading in... Is that a barn out back? Mr. Kapell: That is a big barn. Mr. McDonald: Is it in good shape? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 23 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992 Mr. Kapell: All of these buildings are in relatively good shape. McDonald: And they are being used? Mr. Kapell: Yes. Mr. McDonald: The plan for the future is to sell the farm or they want to keep. farming? Mr. Kapell: Yes, for the time being. There really is no other use for that land. It is not viable for a subdivision. Let me just say this, I know my client is wide open if there is anything that will help him out and leave this in farming. Mr. McDonald: Is it a couple of lots? Mr. Kapell: Yes. Mr. McDonald: What are you going to do? There is nothing else left to do with it. Mr. Ward: If in the future some other grandson comes. up. Mr. Orlowski: He connects to the long way there, is that a road? Mr. 'Kapell: It' s a road, but it is a private road. That is the problem. Ms. Spiro: That road is finished? Mr. Kapell: Yes. Mr. McDonald: You would have to look into the. legal aspects. Mr. Kapell: There has also been some discussion with the neighbors to the East who bought the. Rosenberg property about access across. that property from Rocky Paint Road. That might be the most likely scenario in the long run. Mr. McDonald: For now, the only real question is just the set off and I think if he was prepared to reduce the size of this lot a little bit, just put a restriction on it that it would. be reserved at some future time (inaudible) . Everyone talking. Mr. Ward: What are you saying, take the fifty foot out now? Mr. Orlowski: No, but we can make the lots smaller instead of going with two acres, cut it down. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 24 NOVEMBER 23, 1992, Mr. McDonald: He has included the eighty thousand square feet in the right- of- way. When they remove that, which he probably will have to remove it. Everyone talking. - Mr. Kapell: We show two lines there, one which would count the right-of-way in the subject parcel- and the second is if you would exclude the area of the right-of-way then you would have to move that line back to get 80,000 feet. Mr. McDonald: Yes, well we don't need the eighty. Mr. Kapell: Right. Mr. McDonald: So, that line would be O.K. and we could still take out the right-of-way. So, can we proceed on that basis? Use this line as your property line. Mr. Kapell: The first line. Mr. McDonald: Right, but show the right-of-way as attached to your parcel, as part of your. parcel. Mr. Ward: I see, right now you are only trying to create the one lot. Mr. Kapell: That is all we are asking. Everyone talking. Mr. Kapell: Does that create setback problems for us? Mr. McDonald: We can put a building envelope on that. We should probably give him a building envelope in the subdivision to protect him so he doesn't have to come back and get a lot of variances later on. Mr. Ward: So look at it, you may want. to move the line just a. little bit. Mr. McDonald: See where it makes sense to you. Everyone talking. Mr. Kapell: Thank you very much, I will get back to you with the plans. Mr. Orlowski: Does anyone else have any questions or comments for the Board? No further comments or questions, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 25 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. McDonald: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Any questions? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Being there were no further questions to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8: 45 p.m. Respectfully ubmitted, l �fiTi O/ane Rousseau, Secretary --------------------------------- Richard Ward, Chairman RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLEM DATE NYas/93 SOUR Town Clerk, Town of Southrld