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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/29/1992 O c� Gy1 y PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS %�s SCOTT L. HARRIS Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman Supervisor George Ritchie Latham, Jr. y�0,� �� Richard G. Ward Town Hall, 53095 Main Road Mark S. McDonald P.O. Box 1179 Kenneth L. Edwards Southold, New York 11971 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE Telephone (516) 765-1938 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Fax (516) 765-1823 SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE .29, 1992 Present were: Bennett Orlowski Jr. , Chairman G. Ritchie Latham Richard Ward Kenneth Edwards Mark McDonald Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Holly Perrone Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting to order. First order of business; Board to set Monday, July 20, 1992 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr.' Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. PUBLIC HEARINGS Subdivision - Final; ' SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 2 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Orlowski: 7 :30 p.m. George Stepnoski. (Southold Fire District) - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 21. 044 acres located at Main Bayview Road and Baywater Avenue in Southold. SCTM #1000-75-4-22. We have proof of publication in the local papers and at this time everything is in. order for a hearing. I ' ll ask if. there are any objections to this subdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this subdivision? Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that would be of interest to the Board? Hearing none, any questions from .the Board? Board: No questions. Mr. Orlowski: Being there are no further questions, I' ll entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and. seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Does the Board have any pleasure on this? Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. WHEREAS, George Stepnoski, is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM #1000-75-4-21 & 22, located at Main Bayview and Baywater Avenue; and WHEREAS, this minor subdivision, to be known as Minor Subdivision for George Stepnoski, is. for two lots on 21. 04.4 acres; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8) , Part 617, declared itself Lead Agency and issued. a Negative Declaration on February 24, 1992; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on June 29, 1992; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and be it therefore, SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 3 JUNE 29, 1.992 RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated June 1, 1992. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any .questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Subdivisions - Preliminary: Mr. Orlowski: 7 :35 p.m. Briarcliff Acres - This major subdivision is for seventeen lots on 35 .7022 acres located on the north side of Main Road off Maple Road in Southold. SCTM #1000-75-2-8 & 9. We have proof of publication. in the local papers and at. thi.s time everything is in order for a public hearing. I ' ll ask if there are any objections to this subdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this subdivision? Mr. Raynor: I am the agent for Mr. Chicanowicz. and Mr. Jerome. This subdivision has been before you since 1990. It is seventeen lots situated on thirty-five plus acres. We received sketch plan approval in July of 1991 and the sketch extension in January of 1992 plus the maps were reviewed. back in December of 1991 and amended at the request of the Planning Board. -The Planning Board approved the Negative Declaration and the SEQRA in December of 1991.' In February of 1992 we received a waiver from a 280A application before the Zoning Board of Appeals for access to the property subject to certain construction conditions which will be presented to this Board.. The preliminary maps before you, I believe are in conformity with both the Town Engineers recommendation in his February letter endorsed by your Board. In April the Planning Board and the Suffolk County Health Services received a letter from the Village of Greenport stating the water is not available for public water and not available for this subdivision from the Village system because they are working on test holes and test wells with the ,Suffolk Department of Health Services. I believe this project is completely consistent with the Department of Health Services density standards for the groundwater protection for a water study in the Suffolk County Sanitary Code. The maps before you are in conformity with Section A106 subdivision regulations of the Town and we would request approval. If the Board has any questions, I' ll try and answer them. SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 4 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Orlowski.: Is anyone else in favor or this subdivision? Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that would be of interest to the Board? Hearing none, any questions from the Board? Board: No. Mr. Orlowski.: Being there are no further questions or comments, I will entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. McDonald: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant preliminary approval on- the maps dated April. 16, 1992, for the major subdivision of Briarcliff Acres. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions. on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS Setting of Final Hearings Mr. Orlowski: Port of Egypt Enterprises., Inc. - This proposed site plan is to construct a 25,375 square foot storage building located at the south east side of the marina on Route 25 in Southold. SCTM #1000-56-4-10.1, 11 & 13 .2 and SCTM #1000-56-6-3 .2, 3 .3, 4 & 6.1. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. rSOLTFHOLD PLANNING BOARD 5 JUNE 29, 1992 Be it RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, July 20, 1992 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on the site plan dated June 15, 1992. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Orlowski: Paul Matthews (Willow Run) - This major subdivision is for thirty-four lots on 70 acres located on the north side of Mill Road; 852 feet east of Reeve Road., and on the south side of. Soundview Avenue in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-100-2-1. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, lacking Suffolk County Planning Commission resolution, I move that we hold this open. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3 .743 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Lane in Mattituck. SCTM#1000-113-8-5. This is at the Zoning Board of Appeals waiting for a determination. I' ll entertain a motion to keep this hearing open. Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made. and seconded. Any questions on this motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 6 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Orlowski.: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Wolf Pit Estates - Board to discuss amending the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions for this major subdivision located on Mill Road in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-107-4-2.1.. Mr. McDonald: I move that we hold this open until agreement has been made on the paper work. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Sketch 'Extensions Mr. Orlowski: Annette Zabohonski - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 5.91 acres located on Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island. SCTM #1000-6-2-1. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would. like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of sketch approval from July 13, 1992 to January 13 1993. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 7 JUNE 29, 1992 Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Michael Adams - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 71.42 acres located on Sound Avenue in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-121.-5-4.1. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead. agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a. Negative Declaration. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: David S. & Elizabeth T. Branch - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3 .676 acres located on the northwest corner of Eugene' s Road and Skunk Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM #1000-97-3-17 & 18.2. Mr.. McDonald: Mr. Chairman; I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants. a Negative Declaration. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS Final Determinations: SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD . 8 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Orlowski: Future Screw Machine Products - This proposed site plan is for 343 square foot addition to an existing machine products building on CR 48 in Southold. SCTM #1000-59-7-33. As of right now, the plan is in the Building Department awaiting certification. We can do something in regards to SEQRA, does the Board have any pleasure? Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following r resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board,, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action. The Planning Board establishes itself as. Lead Agency, and as Lead Agency makes a determination of non-significance and grants a. Negative Declaration. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions- on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. (See below for additional resolution for Future Screw Machine) Mr. Orlowski: Daniel C. Mooney_ - This proposed site plan is. for the conversion of a residence to an office and the expansion of a one story building. on 40,447 square feet located on Route 25 in Mattituck. SCTM #1000-122-3,-3. 4 & 5. This too, is also waiting in the Building Department to be certified so we cannot take any action. Mr. Mooney: We were asked by the Building Department to make certain changes in the plans and, we made those changes and we supplied the new plans to the Building Department. It is beyond our control what is happening there apparently and that is why we would like to have approval subject to certification. If we don' t have certification we will be back here at the next meeting but if it does come we don' t have to come back again. Mr. McDonald: What were the changes.? Mr. Mooney: They wanted a protective barrier around the propane tank and they wanted the yellow house listed as residential and the ZBA asked for that so we did that as well. Mr. VanTuyl did the plans. Mr. Edwards: All the conditions have been met? SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 9 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Mooney: Yes. Mr. Orlowski: Have you seen the revised plans? Mr. McDonald: Do we have copies of the revised plans. that were submitted to the Building Department? Ms. Scopaz: Yes, the revised plans were submitted. Mr. McDonald: Is there any problem from our side in those revised plans? Ms. Scopaz: The plans are in accordance with everything we have asked for. Mr. Orlowski: As long as there are no more changes. You took a look at the map? Mr. Mooney: Mr. Lessard. asked for the changes and we made the ones that he asked for. Mr. McDonald: I.f he has made changes that we haven't seen on his, we don' t want to just give a conditional approval and then have significant changes come back.. Mr. McDonald: Do you mind if I make a resolution in regard to Future Screw Parts. I move that we approve the site plan conditioned on receipt of the certified plan from the Building Department with no changes. Ms. Scopaz: In other words, are you suggesting that the wording be such that if the certification comes back for the plan exactly as it was sent to them, that the approval stand and any change that comes back before this Board. . . . Mr. McDonald: What if there is a major change? Mr. Orlowski: There isn' t though. Mr. McDonald: I 'm thinking about the future. O.K. , I will amend my motion to say that the plan that is submitted is certified. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: On which one did you do that? Mr. McDonald: Future Screw. Would you like me to restate it? Mr. Orlowski: No. We have a motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion. All those in favor? rSOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 10 JUNE 29, 1992 Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Now, on Daniel C. Mooney. Mr. McDonald; Mr. Chairman, "I make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town. Planning Board acting under the State Environmental Quality Review .Act, do establish itself as Lead Agency, as a Lead Agency makes a determination of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. Orlowski: Mark, that was the next resolution. Mr. McDonald: Oh, I 'm sorry. Didn' t we need a SEQRA on Mr. Mooney as well? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. McDonald: I' ll withdraw my motion. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. WHEREAS, Maureen M. Mooney and Daniel C. Mooney are the owners of the property known and designated as. North Fork Beer & Soda Distributors, Inc. SCTM #1000-122-f3-3, 4 & 5, located at 11600 Main Road in Mattituck; and WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site plan was submitted on March 41 1992; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to ,the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8) , Part 611, declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on June 8, 1992; and WHEREAS, this site plan has been submitted to the Building Inspector, this approval will be subject to certification by the Building Inspector and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; be it therefore, RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final approval on the surveys dated June 23, 1992, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject r SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 11 JUNE 29, 1992 to the merger of lots .iden.tified as SCTM 41000-3-3,4 & 5 and subject to the certification from the Building Inspector. Mr.. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Future Screw Machine Products, - SCTM #1000-59-7-33 . This is done. Mr. Orlowski: Matt-A-Mar Marina - This proposed addition to an existing 2,064 square foot restaurant building, for use of food preparation., storage space and equipment., as well as two bathrooms for handicapped patrons as mandated by the Suffolk County Health Department. SCTM #1000-114-3-1. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I_ would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review, Act, establishes. itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? Mr. McDonald: Yes, was this coordinated? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. McDonald: O.K. , thank you. Mr. Orlowski: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 12 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Orlowski: Mattituck' Creek Estates - Planning Board to authorize the Chairman to endorse a Certificate of Correction for this approved subdivision.. SCTM #1000-107-1-2. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. WHEREAS, the major subdivision of Mattituck Creek Estates was approved by the Planning Board on February 24, 1992; and WHEREAS, the subdivision map was filed in the Suffolk County Clerk' s Office on March 25, 1992; and WHEREAS, in a letter dated April 8, 1992, the Planning Board agreed to allow the applicant to enlarge the building envelope for Lot #1, so as to allow all structures, both permanent and. temporary, to be located within the building envelope; and WHEREAS, a Certificate of Correction has been submitted by Mr. Peter S. Danowski., Jr. , attorney for the subdivider, showing a larger building envelope in accordance with the Planning Board' s April 8, 1992 correspondence; and Be it therefore RESOLVED that the Southold. Town Planning Board authorize the Chairman to endorse the Certificate of Correction before a Notary. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Henry Raynor Manor Hill Vineyard SCTM#1000-101-1-4.1. - I would like to bring before the Board a request. I have been before the Board a few times at work session. The proposal that I outlined in my letter of June 8th was primarily to subdivide the property into twenty-two five acre parcels. On. each of those parcels we would stipulate a building area. The idea here is to preserve sixty eight acres of vineyards that has already been established. I would think this would be an opportunity for the Town where the applicant is willing to go to five acres to get a- considerably less density on the overall one hundred and seventeen acres. The yield on the two acre basis is somewhere in the neighborhood of forty six or forty seven lots. SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 13 JUNE 29, 1992 It sits on a very large recharge area and the feeling being that of cooperation of the part of the applicant, and giving up density. The retention of the vineyard certainly would be within keeping of the character of the neighborhood and we feel quite honestly that the problem on the applicant' s side is some sort of marketing involved where each, almost each parcel would have their. own. vineyets. This in itself I would think would be more than welcome with regard to the Board. I have been told by staff that there seems to be a problem with this proposal and that is why I came before. the Board tonight as to whether or not the applicant should pursue it. Mr. Orlowski: How about clustering these more to the North? Is there any chance in working with that density maybe with the Health Department and clustering them more to the North. Mr. Raynor: If the Board mandates it, it is something to be considered. We end up clustering: forty some odd houses on one acre lots and it looks like everything else we have in the Town of Southold. The idea here is to give some diversity to the houses and give some open area to the people who buy them with regard to how they might want to design. either a small chalet type home on five acres. Yes, obviously it could be done, but do we want to do it, no, we really do not want to do it. We want something that is diverse as far as living character is concerned in the Town and that is why I have pursued this as far as I have. Mr. McDonald: Do you have any information or any inclination about what your water quality is going to be? Mr. Raynor: We have had three test wells, two of which pass the old standard and the other of which came up at a 10. 8 parts. Mr. McDonald: Was your average above the 6? Mr. Raynor: Yes, about 7.8 or 8.2. Mr. McDonald: There will be wells everywhere essentially right? Mr. Raynor: Yes. Each one of the . lots will have its own well on it. Mr. McDonald: Is that any of the motivation to go with the five acres at all? Mr. Raynor: The motivation basically is that the applicant involved is not in a ultimate hurry to develop the property and quite honestly he was out here last week with me and asked what do you propose and I said I. already have it before the Town and I feel it would be an answer. i SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 14 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. McDonald: You foresee the majority of these lots being used, as it could be for any number of things I guess. Mini farms, whether they are clustering or vineyard or whatever. Mr. Raynor: It is essentially the basis for considering the parcel in the form of substance that I have proposed to you. What I have sketched in there is not laid in gold certainly. There are many, many options. and different ways, we could advise buying lots off. of Elijah' s Lane to end up with the same thing. Mr. McDonald: Where is the vineyard now? What portion of this has the vineyard on it? Mr. Raynor: It is very chopped up, the Board has in its files. the vineyard layout. Mr. Ward: Any chance on this particular parcel of looking into. a transfer? Mr. Raynor: I would say if something were in existence today, yes. The' applicant is about eighty years old. Mr. Ward: But, in the other breath you said it wasn' t in a panic. Mr. Raynor: Absolutely not, he was looking for something that would be a very nice compromise and this is what I have sketched in. Mr. Ward: If the Town is looking for an example of how to do this, this would be an ideal one to do it with. Mr. Raynor: I am afraid the time clock is running against us. He has had a triple by-pass already. I think it is a bargain for the Town in my own personal opinion.. Obviously, this is essential with regard for the Board members. We are trying to be cognizant with the water shed and we are trying to be cognizant of the density. Mr. Orlowski: He is not locked into his layout, we could take a look at this ourselves and come up with something else. Mr. Raynor: Not locked into it certainly. I am locked into something of a time frame. Mr. Orlowski: You just said you weren' t in a time frame. Mr. Raynor: I said he wasn' t in any particular hurry to develop it. I am locked into a time frame with regard to how the property may or may not be developed. The Board is going to say no, we want one acre lots clustered down and the rest of it open, that has got to be a option for him. It is not obviously our preferred option. Our preferred option would. be a spread in lowering the density by 600 on the property. ry ySOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 15 JUNE 29, 1992 Mr. Orlowski: If we want to move these around a little bit. I would like to take another look at it myself. Mr. McDonald: It's a one hundred fifteen or one sixteen acres? Mr. Raynor: It is one hundred and seventeen acres on which there are just two houses. right now. There is one large barn for storage. Mr. McDonald: So, you would anticipate a yield of? Mr. Raynor: Somewhere around. 22 or 24 lots. If you don' t think it is a bargain for the Town, we won' t pursue it. There are other options. I don.' t want to be repetitious, I thought it was a good deal all the way around. Mr. McDonald: We'll take a look at it. Ms. Scopaz: Does this property also go -under another name? Mr. Raynor: Under what other name? Ms. Scopaz: Spectacle Ridge.? Mr. Raynor: Not to my knowledge. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: We' ll discuss it at the work session. Mr. Raynor: If I can be of any help or assistance, I will be happy to. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. , Mr. Cuddy is here.. Mr. Charles. Cuddy: Good evening, I am here on the Bagenski subdivision. I don' t know if you have the. map available to . you. This subdivision is 1300 feet East of Elijah' s Lane in Cutchogue. You have sent me some correspondence which .I am not sure I understand. Initially, I understood from you that this was a minor subdivision that would require a sixteen foot wide road and if you note from the map, if you have that map, there has been an existing fifty foot right of way, actually road, that goes to this property of three lots, one of which by the way is already developed. It goes on beyond it and it has been there at least thirty, maybe forty years. It has a name of Wagon Wheel Lane. I subsequently from the Board received correspondence. saying this was going to require road .construction and therefore we were going to have a major subdivision. Three lots, one of which' is already .developed. I frankly don' t understand what. is *SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 16 JUNE 29, 1992 going on with it but I think it is purely simple a minor subdivision. Each of the lots is two acres and one exceeds two acres by a great deal. You want a fire well. Quite frankly, I don' t see where there is a firewell provision in the code, that is in the. Planning Board part of the code. I see a provision that proposes the size of the firewell but I don' t. see authority for firewells and I really need to know from you what we are doing and why we are doing it. I have one other concern and that is with the engineer. He has indicated that we need a curb cut in the State of 'New York on an existing roadway, existing street. I point out to you that in the definition of minor subdivision that that right of way is a street. I am not sure why we are having curb cuts, why we are having firewells and why we are having major subdivisions. I think that the Board has imposed upon this applicant... . Especially when we are asking for two new lots and we are into a- major subdivision. Frankly, I just don't understand it. I have read the code, I've looked at it so maybe some can explain it to me because I have to explain it to my client and I can' t explain. it. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. does the Board have any comments on this? Mr. Ward: Well, you raised some good questions and we will have to get back to you on it. Mr. Cuddy: I would appreciate the opportunity to come back to you. I hold an advantage as I indicated in my --letter- to the Board because it took us a long time to hit water, we had to go 165 feet. We are ready to proceed:. but I would like this area cleared up if. I could.. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. Mr. Cuddy: Thank you. Mr. Pete Danowski: I would like to speak to the Board in reference to Mr. Israel' s development in which I have been retained late in the game but I am aware of the map and I am aware of the conditions set forth in your sketch plan approval and Howie Young and I sat down and Kenny Abruzzo is here tonight and they are going to begin working on a preliminary map and getting the topo map -in trying to work with your resolution. We will know how the drainage is going to work out when the topo is done, whether we will still be into a leaching pool system or whether your Town Engineer will consult with Young and Young and maybe a grade of leaching pool system is not the best way to handle drainage. In fact, that may end up with some form of alteration of the general layout but it may push the lots in one direction and you may look at drainage going behind lots one and two or behind the existing house that has been set off by •SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 17 JUNE 29, 1992 resolution or even if we want to pipe it, to .sort of speak, uphill maybe back toward the open lot. When they bring the preliminary map down, I just want to make sure that I am telling you ahead- of time that it may not look exactly the same way because of the drainage situation. However, beyond that I think Richie is real concerned. and l have been before this Board before arguing about the merits of a large lot with restricted covenants with the County Clerk as opposed to the Homeowner' s Association. Every time I speak about it probably I have the same argument and the same words. Richie would pref:er not to have a homeowners association on this. development. l recognize there is some wooded areas on this parcel, I recognize the school district is an adjacent parcel but. quite frankly, he would like to be able to sell a large. lot and do some form of restricted covenant which wording can be worked out with the Board and with Planning Staff to make sure there is a limited building envelope and to make sure we have some severe restrictions that get recorded. Your resolution talked about two things, it. talked about a homeowners association and it talked about including a set-off lot that has already been granted to Mrs. Mandel and have that considered part of the subdivision and you talked about placing the building envelope adjacent to lot eight. Now, I don' t know who has got the map, maybe everybody does have it. As a practical matter, the drainage will effect us somewhat but obviously Richie' s decision and biggest preference would be to put the driveway back and put a limited building envelope and forget the way I draw it but we would like to limit the building envelope back in this area with a restrictive covenant on the back part. Whether it is the- normal ones that we do with regard to agriculture or whether it is an open space easement, I think there was some question about horses, and of course if we do horses there might be corrals or fencing but I think that kind of thing could be submitted in advance to your Board during the preliminary map stage and we would like to come in with. a map at the preliminary map stage that might show that. I think it would practically be better, I don' t know the benefit the lot owners would have in this particular open space area. Some. areas where people or doing tennis courts where they are doing some use that will benefit all the lot owners then maybe it makes sense with the developer, maybe it makes sense with the Planning Board. in this particular area, we would like to think that we could market this large lot to someone who would be interested in horses as a first suggestion. This is not an area where you have got one hundred year old trees or anything. There is some sloped area down the far end but we would like to come in with a preliminary map with a topo in hand, with the drainage figured out and not be shut off from having your Board consider the large lot with restricted covenants. As it is now worded, the condition of the sketch plan approval was to form a homeowners association. Now, I would like to come back in and have you reconsider that during the preliminary map stage. Is 1 4 SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 18 JUNE 29, 1992 there anyone that is terribly opposed to considering this. during the next stage of the proceedings. Mr. McDonald: The properties to the north presently have houses on the waterfront areas, if they come in for subdivision if they ever, I am assuming that the rest of the properties will be developed in that area since it is already housing. The properties on the south, Schroeder of course is denuted to a degree although part of his is wooded, but there. is a continuous wooded parcel that runs north of here and then over towards the. east into near the property of Harold Reese. it is not tremendously large but it is all that is left in the way of green space in this area. presently. The purpose of creating. the large lot essentially, doesn' t create any real advantage for the. applicants of the subdivision either although. it certainly is a better marketing tool, I wouldn' t question that and it may make the lot more saleable. But, in the long run, I think the interest of the community are much better served and the people of the subdivision by having some green space left in. this area. If you look at the area., there is nothing left. Mr. Israel: Just like the school piece, 500 of that is in trees. It has been there for years. This has been farmed. Mr. McDonald: I walked through there and. already you can' t walk though it. Everyone talking. Mr. Danowski: One concept is Mark' s future use of the property and what it will look like in the future and the green belt idea. That green belt idea, I think you and I could both agree, is there regardless of the form of ownership depending on what covenants you want to place on it in the Planning Board. So, the one concept alone you and I think would agree that says., hey, if we make you say forever green and. let' s just take your idea you don't want it agriculture alright, you can' t farm it, you can only look at it. If your goal is to preserve the green area then what you give us is to sell Pete Danowski if he is a future homeowner, this idea you will have this forever green space next to you, it will be yours, it. will be something private, the birds and the bunnies can go there, people aren' t going to trespass over it, it is going to be maintained and it is yours and you will still have that green space area so the one concept of that green space, I can listen to and that is a reasonable argument. I just question whether you have to have a homeowners association in order for it to be a green space area. Mr. McDonald: Let me ask you. The typical response to this is, you can' t use it anyhow because once it gets grown over and there are ticks in there, who is going to send their kids in there? I have heard this before. I guess adults feel they can take responsibility. for their own action a little bit more than � SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 19 JUNE 29, 1992 you would for a kid. You would feel very badly about it if you sent your kid in there to play and he ended up sick from it. But, the fact of the matter remains that in the long run that may not be the case. I don't know that may well not be the case that you have to worry about. your kid getting lyme disease if he goes up there. If we take it, if you put a covenant that says hands off. People in the subdivision aren' t going to have any access to it no matter what and they are cut off from walking through it. If you wanted to have a trail at some future time for recreation uses for the people in the subdivision. Now they are eliminated from the use of it at all. This property would, benefit almost solely then at this point, the owner of the property, even if it would be highly reduced because he can't touch it and the people adjacent to it on Stars. Road would have in their backyard., instead of having houses would have trees and the bunnies and the birds. I prefer the idea of taking it in the future that could be use for everybody in ,the subdivision in some sort of another. Mr. Israel: What use would be allowed? ' Mr. McDonald: Passages, recreational use. Mr. Israel: Could I build. a tennis court there? Mr. McDonald: No. Mr. Israel: So, I could just walk through it? Mr. McDonald: That is right. Mr. Danowski: Your concept is that in a small subdivision. . . . . Mr. McDonald: I would like to say, I see you laughing, but it is not simply a laughing matter. The - idea that there are going to be trees and an area that is like that somewhere in the Town Mr. Israel: It is only for the use of these nine people, they are the only ones that can pass through there. Mr. McDonald: Right, I admit that there are secondary benefits to other people adjacent to the property. Mr. Israel: O.K. , so you are saying that nine families can now walk through this lot and it. stays green. What would be the difference if I had 'a restricted building and clearing envelope and it remained• untouched forever, that the person who bought that ninth lot there knows. One of the reasons we did this was. originally these were two separate lots if you remember and I could have come in and put a minor on this one, put a minor on that one, handled the road this or that O.K. . We tried to get access through Stars Road O.K. , a year and one half. We have decided that economics won because of the market and. it doesn't SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 20 JUNE 29, 1992 pay for me to drag a .major road from Main Road all the way up. You had asked us to combine the pieces, I did combine the pieces, you asked me, you know there is a little King' s Road there, go get the right of way over, go get_ this. I ended up buying it O.K. , I 've created a good access to this parcel and solved. a lot of problems doing it.. We clustered it for two reasons. The length of my road O.K. , I don't mind saying, and I thought that the subdivision would go through easier because you had the people on Stars. Road., because you have the people that. I am going to have to deal with on this road, the three acre piece, the two acre piece above that with the school house, the ten acre pieces that are above that, if they know that hey, yes instead of the this little private road which we really don't have a choice about they are now going to have a public road in. there O.K. , that there will be forever green in their backyard. To them, they are preserving what they originally bought back there for. What I am ending up with under your scenario is nine lots on a major road where the more quieter I can keep this place the more valuable it will be. That is what people like about this down there. All I am asking for is for you to give me my ninth lot that is protected. that somebody who really doesn' t want to see another human being can go back. there. I. have given up my value, on this ten acres. I am asking for some kind of compensation for that. Mr. McDonald: You want us to make this decision based on the degree on economic consideration? Mr. Danowski: I don' t think it has to be on economic, but I think when you talk about open space, there are different reasons for having open space. One may be used as agriculture, and you are saying as passive recreation. We are saying the ownership alone doesn't control that. The homeowners or a large lot owner can be conditioned anyway you want. The question is, you are now saying you want the greenery there, you want the eight lot owners to walk through it. Mr. McDonald: There will be nine lots right? Mt. Danowski: Yes, it' s nine. I'm talking about the eight as opposed to the ninth lot owner. Everyone else can join in with . that one person that is at the end to walk through this in some fashion. Have we worked out in the Town a green belt area covenant as to what they can and can' t do? Mr. McDonald: We have had a lot of discussion lately. It is just informal discussions and to a degree that we have been told don' t get involved in covenants and restrictions. that you can't enforce. Which is a major consideration for us in everything: that we do now. Basically, they are saying that covenants. and restrictions are not enforceable. Mr. Danowski: I don' t who is giving you your advice. Obviously, you seek your own council but it seems. to that you 1 ,SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 21 JUNE 29, 1992 have got restrictions placed on the property and you have got necessary consents to do the inspections to issue violations. I am sure your Town Attorney likes to drag in building violations from time to time. Mr. McDonald: If you want to bring it in, you see by moving the road up there you are changing the variance. if you don' t want to go to the ZBA to get the variance and you. close it in you can do it as a cluster in there. , It is. your choce. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: Because you were going to move some of that land out of that parcel and into another parcel anyhow, it won' t affect the layout in any way. Everyone talking. Mr. Israel: What about in reference to your park fee. Mr. McDonald: That is not subject to a park fee if it' s got a building on it. Mr. Orlowski: What type of a covenant are we talking about? Mr. Danowski: I have had different ones with different Towns and I've seen the language and I usually send them into the Planning Board for review and say here' s one from this Town or that Town: I think I really wanted to hear from the whole Board and hope Mark wasn' t the only one. Mr. Orlowski: This lot itself doesn' t lend itself to a great agricultural use. Mr. Danowski: Well, I'm not hear saying it is a flat piece of property. Mr: Orlowski: if you could send in these covenants and let us take a look at it. Mr. Danowski:: It think what I really want to do is to be able to keep an open mind as we go through the preliminary map and. do the topo and come in here. Obviously, the mapping is not going to change. much whether the homeowners association owns it or it becomes a large lot� with a restricted envelope. I just want to say to the Board I would like you to consider this as we go , along. I think-, to put a building envelope back there and you sell this large - lot we can deal with the restrictions on it. Mr. Orlowski: 0-:..�. . A,':f{-a ;•*iciriciriricic3c4cic4c9cir�'c9c4e9tic�r9c�ci�cicicicicic�ricie**�cic SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 22 JUNE 29, 1992 George Wiser: Southold Villas - Issac had called me and he would like to run by the Board about the has a request that he other site in Southold Villas. The other nine acre parcel. , Right now it has been approved for (inaudible) and thinking of changing it for sixteen single family residents. Now, New York State has approached me about maybe if the Town went back and fill in with another affordable (inaudible) there where they would subsidize it with the same type of grant that was given with this other (inaudible) . If that doesn' t fly, we could probably go ahead and just build sixteen single family homes and sell them around the $140,000 or $160,000 price range as opposed to condominiums. I had Peconic Surveyors over there and John did a map. Did you receive a copy? Mr. McDonald: The only ques.tion. I had was I was only concerned about the resolution the Town Board passed on the zone change that there were no conditions that were passed that would make this not possible. Other than that.,. I don't know what the zone change, for instance the zone change didn.'t say the SEQRA determination said specifically for this and this. If changing it will have any implication but other than that . . . . . . . . Mr. Orlowski: Affordable sounds even better. Mr. Wiser: The only problem with affordable is again that you have to apply for it. I could put a grant together and have it submitted probably by September but we wouldn't know until maybe April or May at the earliest. Mr. McDonald: $14.0,000 finished properties are not exactly flying on the market either. But, I wouldn' t commit myself to the actual layout there but conceptionally, what is the problem. The front is already laid. out like this and as. long as he makes his density. Mr.. Orlowski: I don't think there is any problem. Mr. McDonald: To see the actual Change of Zone Resolution, I haven' t actually read it, actually I read it quite a while ago about the buffer' s and everything but if they actually said bid it for condominiums. and affordables or something, we want to make sure that we aren' t doing something that is contrary to the Change of Zone Resolution. Other than that, you are within the Code. Mr. Orlowski: I don't think there is a problem. The layout that he shows there now could be changed a little bit. Mr. McDonald: Well, it' s a start, it' s someplace: to start talking. Mr. .Ward: I haven' t even seen the map. The problem is the depth. of the lots. SOUTROLD PLANNING BOARD 23 JUNE 29., 1992 Mr. Orlowski: Yeah, they are pretty narrow, I think a 75 foot width and I don' t think anything affordable is that narrow. Mr. Wiser: They usually run about 75 or 80 feet. Mr. Orlowski: Are they that narrow. Mr. Wiser: The problem with the affordables is that we kind of put the houses very close together. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, could we close this and then hold this over to the work session. Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion we adjourn. Mr. Orlowski: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Being there was nothing left on the agenda, the meeting was adjourned at 8: 35 p.m. Re ectful�y submitted, JL e Rousseau, Secretary Bennett Orlowski Jr. , Chairm L ks 4 �'. : IEiV 77� � ''I O �79�