HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-12/17/1992 TRUSTEES o� co� SUPERVISOR
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President h`t` 22� SCOTT L. HARRIS
Albert J. Krupski, Jr., Vice President o
Henry P. Smith * Town Hall
John B. Tuthill 53095 Main Road
William G. Albertson ®,( �`a� P.O. Box 1179
Telephone (516) 765-1892 Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
DECEMBER 17, 1992
WnRKSESSION: 6:00 p.m.
PRESENT WERE: John M. Bredemeyer, III, President
Albert J. Krupski, Vice President
Henry P. Smith, Trustee
William G. Albertson, Trustee
John B. Tuthill, Trustee
Jill T. DohertyP Clerk
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Thursday, January 28, 1993
WORKSESSION: 6:00 p.m.
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Thursday, January 21, 1993 8 a.m.
APPROVE MINUTES: of November 20, 1992 regular meeting.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL motioned to approve,
TRUSTEE SMITH second. ALL AYES
I . MONTHLY REPORT: Trustee monthly report for November 1992:
A check for $1,937.28 was forwarded to the Supervisor' s Office
for the General Fund.
II . PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk' s Bulletin.
Board for review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
1 . John Laffey on behalf of Bruce Heath request a waiver to
replace porch inkind/inplace as applied for. Located
Hippodrome Drive, Southold.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON moved to approve for a waiver.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI second. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 2 December 17, 1992
2. Mildred Cullen request a waiver to property that was .
cleared. Located Goose Creek .Lane, Southold..
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to deny and put on for assessment.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES.
3 . Samuel Peters request a waiver to construct a 5' high split
rail fence as noted in file. Located Little Neck and Strohson
Road, Cutchogue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve provided fence be on property
line.
TRUSTEE SMITH second., ALL AYES.
4. Gordon Ahlers, P.E. on behalf of No Number Naugles
Drive, Inc. request waiver to remove all existing structures
including the empty asphalt tanks as. per survey dated May 5,
1990 . Located Naugles Drive, Mattituck.
TRUSTEE SMITH moved to approve the waiver and if, any other
agency tries to stop the, they should call the Trustees.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON second. ALL AYES.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TIMES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE LONG
ISLAND TRAVELER-WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF:
FIVE ( 5) MINUTES OR LESS, IF POSSIBLE
7:15 P.M. - In the matter of Costello Marine on behalf of
Dragutin Gobic to construct 3 1/2' X 50' catwalk., 32" X 20"
aluminum ramp, 6' X 20' floating dock and 2 pile support
dolphins. Located 2125 Hobart Road, Southold.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: As a point of clarification the. first item
scheduled for. 7 :15 for public hearings may have been advertised.
again although- the hearing was held. entirety at last months.
meeting. Would there be anyone. here who wants_ to speak here who
didn' t speak last month on this?
MR. MAZZAFARRO: I spoke last month and you requested that a
that a stake be put out. I saw the stake., now is that supposed.
to be 90' from the high water mark?
TRUSTEE. BREDEMEYER: The board didn't designate a distance out,
we asked to have the seaward. most point flag.
MR. LAW: As a point of information., isn't there an ordinance
that says you have to be fifteen feet of property.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: There is no law that regulates the distance
off of property line or the extension of property line with
respect to docks. The dock is a structure when it leaves mean
high water and enters in upon the waters of the Town is the
proper per view of this board, an assembled board of five people
Board of Trustees 3 December 17, 1992
call Trustees. The board generally has tried to have setoff
where possible, but., there is a notion of what is known as the.
riparian rights of an individual to warp out and to seek out
adequate depth of water to navigate and approach his property. .
Its based. on a reasonableness., and. the reasonableness becomes a
point of discussion, and sometimes not even agreement, but it
comes down to a. vote of this board..
MR. LAW: That is fine but isn't there supposably some sort of
barrier on both sides. for clearance, where, no? From property
line to property line?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The general rule is a rule of
reasonableness that your own riparian rights would not be
infringed upon as you would try to make way to and. from the
foreshore.
MR. LAW: I was under the impression that this board was
supposably for the minority, not, rather the majority, not the
minority. Now two people are on the sides., now we are in the
middle. I 'm sorry we're on both sides. This person has had.
this piece of property for 'X' number of. years, I don't know
because my Uncle. owned it before me. But, nothing has been
done, all of a sudden now he wants to build this stupid abortion
out there as I call. it, Mr. Costello corrected me, he calls it.
a- dock.. I've worked with pile drivers for 35 years and still to
me it's an abortion. I. say we have the right to say yes or no.
I could be wrong. I want somebody to tell me why.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think it comes down to individual property
rights and not what the majority says, but the individual.
property rights of property owner and. and. tax payer of the Town.
MR. LAW: That' s fine,. he' s gonna. have three inches on this
side and that side. Who is gonna hold it in three inches.
Mr. Costello is a contractor, he' s there and. God bless him, he
does his job. In thirty-eight years I worked. for operating
engineers in the city of New York, I know what it is to go with
contracts. He is. there to. do a job and that is all. He' s
gonna go down the cr.eek. whistling Dixie and. counting:: the coins
in his hands. He couldn't care less about this town arid- creek.
You people supposably are for everybody, but I.'m beginning to
get a bad taste in my mouth after I read the papers. today. You
people are not doing anything to make anybody happy.
TRUSTEE. BREDEMEYER.: The Trustees only handle the waterways, but
if you will it' still. comes down to a vote of the. Board. Other.
Boards of Trustees and. other East. End Towns:. . .. . .
MR. ' LAW: I do not feel that this maxi should have a 14' or. 16'
boat that has to have 4' of water out there. Why?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Do you have a dock yourself?
MR. LAW: No.
TRUSTEE.'BREDEMEYER: Other Boards handle docks differently, some
boards require the, matter at the end of the year, some are
relatively negative on their view in other municipalities. This
Board happens to hold very close to the notion of private
property rights and an individuals rights to wharf out.. The
courts have historically upheld the rights of. an. individual to
wharf out from his or her property. That' s been. a. holding of
law, and I suspect if, the Board- were to accommodate you or even
Board of Trustees 4 December. 17, 1992
if it does, I don't know how it will. go,, but if the Board were
to accommodate you and Mr. Mazz.afarro, I suspect that a court
of law would be telling us that we acted imprudently by denying
this gentleman' s application. Because there is a lot of case
law, it's been through all the courts in the land, including
Supreme Court decisions on it, that you can't abridge this sort
of riparian right, this sort of right that goes with. River shore
lines with coastal areas.. It aright.
MR. LAW: So what your telling me all the laws that you people
put on the books ,are worth a. dam. Because you can come around-
tomorrow and say, whoa, forget it, Joe. Shmucks decided he
wants. . .you' re right, it' s supposed to be for everybody.
TRUSTEE. SMITH: For a point of information, I see that there. is
an application for a 3 1/2 foot dock with a 32" ramp I believe
and a 6 X. 20' float, now the man' s property is only 3 feet wide.
How are you gonna put, that would be like putting a building
permit to put a structure bigger than their lot. If you go over
that property.
MR. LAW: Can you tell. me something.? Can he build outside his
property line?
TRUSTEE SMITH: We got this gentleman who has the floor.
MR. COSTELLO: Is this a public hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: No.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER.c We' ll have to take comment on it because it
was advertised as such. I think we can' t deny comment.
Apparently it was inadvertently advertised a second time.
MR. MAZZAFARRO: If someone has a piece of property that
that' s width would you. grant that one the same thing?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'd have to look at the circumstances. I
can' t give you and answer on that without looking at the.
circumstances.. That' s an unfair question.
MR. MAZZAFARRO: Let' s say this property is on a two foot lot
with access.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But it' s not. It's apples. and oranges. That' s
not a direct or clear question.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It also depends on the environmental. and.
also the navigation setting. It would. be an option for the
Board to consider.
MR'. MAZZAFARRO: The dock is not supervised and not behind.
anyone' s property what.' s gonna- stop kids from going onto it
and getting hurt.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI,: The same as what stops kids from jumping off
the end of any dock.
MR. MAZZAFERRO: But those docks behind houses, where nobody
can see them. This house is across the street and. no one
supervises that dock at 'any time unless their right there on the
property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We grant docks: on property without residences:
on a usual basis. It' s a matter of. access, not a. matter size.
MR. LAW: Suppose I decide to break my property down to ' 4 foot
section, and have all the people. in that property decide to buy
these pieces and have water rights. Would I. be approved?
Board of Trustees 5 December 17, 1992
You know dam well I won't be approved. Are you gonna set a
precedent with. this man putting on a piece' -of property out. there
and 4 foot, then I could do the same. thing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER.: I think your surmising: that subdivision of
land can. happen. in three foot increments now. There had been
some discussion by individual Board members during: field
inspection that if an approval were considered in. this. matter,
it would be tied to the upland residential property in the owner
across the street, and that would intend to address some of the
concerns you have as neighbors and would also. prevent the marina.
creation by splitting off three and four foot pieces.
MR. LAW: Gentleman, I'm gonna tell you something, if you let
this go by, your gonna open up a can *of worms that your
gonna regret for the rest of. your time. in service.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Well we appreciate your concern and I'm
sure the Board will consider it.
MR. LAW: I don't know how many people, I know Henry does but
the rest of you people do not live on the creek. We live on the
creek, we have to put up with it, and I don' t believe that the
one person, we have to change everything for years. I don't
believe that.
JOHN COSTELLO: That gentleman just said that I don't live on. .
the creek, and. when I leave I don't care, well that's not true.
I live in Southold Town and I 've lived here .my entire life. I
care as much as he, and more than mast because I have a little.
bit of knowledge of what' s going on. There are so many
circumstances which is getting: addressed. they have a
community dock in. Corey Creek and many other places where
there are possibly 75' and. they 10 or 12 boats; tied up to an
area. It' s their access to the water, it does happen and has:.
happened. At Cleaves. Point, where. they subdivided.,. had. inland.
lots and had access to the water on twenty foot lots: I'm not
say it would never happen again, I'm not saying it won' t. The
Town Board or the other agencies: would have to approve it on an
individual basis. I 'm not gonna walkout of here with a lot
of money, as this gentleman indicated. I was hired to do a job
and will try to do. it the best I can. If the individual has for
many, many years owned a piece of .property, paid taxes and he
wants to use it. He would like to utilize it and they're going
to go out to a depth of water. L walked out and put the stake.
on with hip boots on, it' s not four feet, with low tide its
probably 2 1/2 feet if that, because I did sink into the bottom
Sunday. The other gentleman asked about is it. 90' from high.
water? Just to clarify the record, the plans submitted. to this
Board indicate, and it is 35' of fixed pier, a 20' rump, and 20'
float which requested. The reason we'.re trying to narrow it up,
the jurisdiction of this. Board starts_ at mean high water. It is
not individual property rights. If we are infringing on someone
elses rights I hope this Board denies it. I. don' t believe it
is infringing on anyone's rights.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Mr. Costello was there any consideration
to go with fixed. dock or did you get a chance to talk to the
owner about it.
Board of Trustees 6 December 17, 1992
MR. COSTELLO: I did talk. to the owner about. i.t and he will, the
only trouble is he is 75 years old, and more dif€icult to in and
out of the boat but he would as an alternative of the Board. It
is on a fixed dock, it is almost gonna be the same.. width. by
the time we put the piling on the outside of the dock to make
sure it doesn't come up in the winter time. It might_ be a
degree of six inches or so to protect. Its the Boards
direction, this gentleman is willing to do whatever is necessary.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We noticed there were fixed docks across the
way.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is he planning to leave his float out all
winter, because he doesn't own a large place to put it.
MR. COSTELLO: I doubt it. As we suggested take the ramp off.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: Its the Boards discretion whether you want to
obtain a fixed dock.
TRUSTEE SMITH.: I don' t see how you can give him over three foot
wide.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any further questions, we' ll close this
hearing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: So 'moved.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion to approve subject to certain
requirements which will have to be filled before the clerk will.
release a permit. Language satisfactory- to the Town Attorney
linking the dock permit with. the upland parcel of the owner., so
if the property separated the dock permit is voided. And that
the structure should be a fixed structure given- the fact there
is no immediate place to put the float and should not exceed at
its outer limits. of. 3 feet with the right of way so that the
entirety of it should be within..
BRUCR LOUCKA: Question., Why? If your put. al.low. a 6 X 20' float.
TRUSTEE SMITH.: We' re not allowing a. fl.oat.
BRUCE LOUCKA: You're- not allowing a float?
TRUSTER BREDEMEYER: We're gonna go with.,a fixed dock. and they
can have a step down.
BRUCE LOUCKA: How big is the fixed dock gonna be..
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They can. go not to exceed three feet in.
width with handrails up if need be to access the step down
portion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: So it' s gonna be 3 X, 75? If. we' re gonna.
grant an approval I would. make it wide enough to be safe.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The handrail would make it safe, and its
within the confines of the property. We could have it. not to
exceed. 901 . The Boards is acceptable to that? Not to exceed
90' in length, and not to- exceed 3' in width. Extension of plot
lines will have to be plotted. by surveyor. Set of. stairs below
high watermark. Open bottom.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I would recommend that a gate be placed at the
high water mark. I ' ll review these items as a. proposal. for an
approval subject to a specific language being review- by the Town.
Attorney. 1. Linking the dock to the upland. real. property
parcel. of the owner. 2. Not to exceed 90 feet in total length.
3 . Catwalk not to exceed 3 feet in width. 4. Extension of the
plot lines or the plotting of the dock should, be by a licensed
Board of Trustees 7 December 17, 1992
surveyor. 5. Set of stairs shall be installed. be:low the level.
of mean high water to afford people the ability to move along
the fore shore, and a gate is recommended, to restrict access..
In a form of: a motion is' that acceptable., does anyone want to
move that?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I' ll move that.
TRUSTER TUTHILL Second.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Nay.
7 : 40 P.M. - In the matter of En-Consultants. on behalf of Lewis
Edson- to construct a one-fami.ly dwelling, deck, pool, sanitary
system, well, bluestone (or similar pervious) driveway,
underground electric and cable, all. as shown on plan dated.
6/11/92. House, pool, & deck will be constructed on pilings.
No additional fill. wi.11 be needed.. A1.1 construction will be at
least 75' from tidal wetland and therefore beyond Trustee
jurisdiction.. There wil.l. be clearing, grading and landscaping
up to 25' beyond proposed improvements. A 50 ' natural
vegetative buffer will be maintained except that selective
pruning will occur to afford- views of the marsh. from the house.
Located Linden Ave. , Cutcho.gue.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER.: Is there anyone here 'who wishes to speak on.
behalf of this application? Anyone here who wishes to speak
against this application? Comments from Trustees?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: I 'd like to know what kind of pool they're
gonna construct on pilings.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL. AYES..
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Your pleasure on this?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI I make a motion. we approve the application.
TRUSTEE. SMITH: Second. ALL. AYES.
7 :43 P.M. - In the matter of the application of. Dr. Bennet, J.
Hess to replace (within 18") 1.84 l.f. of existing timber,
bulkhead. plus (_2). 10'- returns.. Approx. 150 c.y. of clean
backfill will. be. trucked in from upland. An existing 4' X 13 '
stairway will. be removed and replaced. Located. Peconic Bay
Blvd. Laurel.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on.
behalf of this application? Anyone who wishes to speak against
this application? Any comments from the Board?
Motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So moved.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL: Second ALL. AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion in. this matter.?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Motion we approve.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I' ll take a motion we go back on the
regular meeting agenda.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: So moved.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL: Second. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 8 December 17, 1992
V. ASSESSMENTS/ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATIONS:
1. En-Consultant on behalf of Susan Tasker to construct a
one-family dwelling, deck, retaining walls, sanitary system,
bluestone. (or similar pervious) driveway, underground utilities,
all as shown on attached site plan of Van Tuyl.. Approx. 265
c.y. of clean sand fill will be trucked in, Located Rt. 48,
Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to table this and to inspect Monday.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL. second.. ALL AYES.
2. Costello Marine on. behalf of Anthony and Marie Vitale.
request permit to resheath 1.7 ' on east. jetty (south end.) ,
resheath 5' on west jetty (south end) and install 6' X 20 '
float to attached: to a. 28" X 1.6' float, ramp to be 32" X 8" and.
pipe support pilings.. Located. Inlet Way, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI' Moved to give a negative declaration subject to
revised drawing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second.. ALL AYES..
3 . En-Consultants on behalf of Anthony Helies request to
replace (within 18") 148' (plus 18." return ,on W/S) of existing
retaining wall. Backfill with 50 c..y. of. clean backfi.11. New
wall will be 6" higher. Also to remove steps and replace with a
4' X 5' landing to 4' wide steps parallel to bulkhead;. Located
Park Ave. , Mattituck.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I move to approve for a negative declaration.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES.
4. In the matter of the application of Mildred Cullen and
others to restore a site on Goose Creek. Asking. for a waiver.
Project .descripti.on to remove large stumps from Hurricane Bob
1989, and reseed with mixture known as "wear-green" .
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve for negative
declaration..
TRUSTEE TUTHILL.: Second- ALL. AYES.
VI . RESOLUTIONS:
1. Board to set public hearings for the January 2.8, 1.993
regular meeting for those applications. receiving negative
declarations and the following items that are Type II actions
pursuant to Trustee SEQRA policy:
a. John Geideman on behalf of Eileen Villani to
construct a fixed dock 4' X 1251 , a 3' X 15' ramp and a 6.' X 20'
float. Located off. Indian Neck Lane_, Peconic.
TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Moved to approve to set hearings.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES.
2 Rial Reality Corp. , request a. Grandfather permit for a
bulkhead that was built in- May of 1.972 by Larry Tuthill.
Property located on ROW off Soundview Ave. , Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So moved.
Board of Trustees 9 December 17, 1992
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES.
3 . Peter & Carol. Blasucci request a .grandfather permit for a
40' X 5 ' dock, a 12' X 3 ' walk and a 40' X 5' float in. Howards
Branch of Mattituck Creek. A May 3, 1983 permit # 1603 was
given. the only records that can. be found. ar.e the minutes..
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER moved to approve the grandfather permit, and
fees to be collected on minor changes.. ,
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES
4.. En-Consultants on behalf of. Joseph Frazzitta request a
grandfather permit to replace bulkhead. inkind/inplace, as
per amended application. Located Inlet. Way, Southold.
TRUSTEE SMITH.: moved to approve.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES.
5_ Tessler Associates on behalf of Joseph Mantione request.
to construct fixed pier structure 4' X. 1001 , a 14' ramp and (2)
6' X 20 ' docks. Located 54275 Stillwater Ave. , Cut:chogue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Motioned to approve subject to revised drawing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES.
6. En-Consultants on behalf of Eugene Bolter request permit to
construct 4' X 12' ramp of existing bulkhead. with a 6 ' X 20'
float with ( 2) 2-pile dolphins.. Located Bayberry. Road,
Cutchogue.
TRUSTEE SMITH: motioned to table.
TRUSTEE TUTHI.LL: Second.. ALL AYES..
7 . Gus Wade - Trustees accept lead agency. SEQRA monies to be
transferred. to Trustees.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Moved to accept as lead agency. And request
Zoning Board of Appeals to transfer such unused monies to
Trustees.
TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.: Second. ALL AYES.
8. Corey Creek Association — 1 year extension - waiting for
DEC.
9 . Fees for emergency permits.
TRUSTEE SMITH proposed that any inkind/inplace
structures that are replaced are not charged fees, but new
structures will pay fees. This in regards to the December 1992
storm. The cutoff date will be determined at the. January 28th
meeting.
10. Authorize clerk and 1 Trustee present to issue permits.
Meeting adjourned at 8: 44 P.M.
Respectfully Submitted. By
Board of Trustees 10 December 17, 1992
Diane J. Herbert
Secretary, Board of Trustees
B�iT���a3��13 HOUR
Town Clerk, Town of Souz, olcl