HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/28/1994 • �SSFFO��c.
Albert J. Krupski, President �p�► OG Town Hall
John Holzapfel, Vice President = - 53095 Main Road
William G. Albertson P.O. Box 1179
Martin H. Garrell Oy �� Southold, New York 11971
Peter Wenczel ��l �a0 Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax (516) 765-1823
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
APRIL 28, 1994
PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, Jr. , President
John Holzapfel, Vice-President
Peter Wenczel, Member
Martin Garrell, Member
Jill Doherty, Clerk
ABSENT WAS: William Albertson, Member
Worksession: 5: 00 P.M.
Board spoke with Anthony Tohill and Merlon Wiggin with
regard to Narrow River Marina Markers. The Board agreed to work
something out for temporary markers for this season only.
Then applicant will have to come in for the full process for the
following seasons.
Board continued down worksession agenda
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Thursday, May 26, 1994 at 7 P.M.
Worksession: 6:00 P.M.
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Thursday, May 19, 1994 at 12:00 P.M.
Worksession: after field Insp.
APPROVE MINUTES: February 24, 1994 and March 24, 1994 regular
meetings.
I . MONTHLY REPORT:
Trustees monthly report for March 1994: A check for
$13,810. 38 was forwarded to the Supervisor' s Office for the
General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk' s Bulletin
Board for review.
III . AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
;Board of Trustees 2. April 28, 1994.
1. John Nickles on -behalf of BEIXEDON ESTATES request an
amendment to permit #255 for maintenance dredging of
approximately 475 c.y, of shoaled material from the inlet to
Petty' s Pond to a depth of' 6' below MLW, to run concurrent
with the DEC permit which runs out 'August 23, 1998. Previous
approval has been given from the Trustees to expire February 3 ,
1997. Located Ashamomaque Avenue, Southold. #66-3 .
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to approve as long as spoil is placed on west side.
ALL AYES.
2. JOHN DEMPSEY request a one year extension to permit #1965
for a 6' X 201 float to expire May 21, 1995. Applicant finally
has all other permits. Contractor cannot do the work until
fall. Located Meday Ave:, Mattituck. *113-8-14.2
A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE
WENCZEL to table this application to review the file for
completeness. ALL AYES.
3. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of WILLIAM RILEY request an
amendment to permit #4061 to install a 145' rock revetment
instead of the approved timber bulkhead. Located Cedar Point
Drive West, West Lake, Southold.#90-1-4.
A motion.was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to table this application for an accurate survey. ALL
AYES.
4. Land Use on behalf of JOHN BURNS to amend.,-.permit #4152 to
add 4' X 3 ' stairs at .the beginning of the fixed dock, add
electric and water lines to the end of the fixed dock, and
reposition the proposed 6' X 20' floating dock in a north-south
configuration, ,instead of west-east. Located 755 Lighthouse
Lane, Southold. #70-6-31. CAC recommended approval with
conditions that the new configuration does not intrude into .the
creek. After discussion a motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL
and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL to grant this amendment
subject to 20 ' from end of ' dock to be greater. than 3 ' in depth.
This shall not impede navigation. ALL AYES.
5. En-Consultants on behalf of PAUL RACANO request an
amendment to permit #4217 to move the following northwest of,
original survey: Construct a 4' X 72' fixed elevated walk W
above grade of marsh) a 3' X 16' hinged ramp, a 6' X 10' float
with, a 6' X 30' outer float arranged in a 'IT" configuration., A
4' X 60' path will be cut through brush on slope leading to dock
and surfaced with wood chips. Located 1265 Calves Neck Road,
Southold. SCTM #63-7-35.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to approve amendment. ALL AYES.
6. JOHN J. BOPP requests an amendment to- permit#3795
submitted by previous owner Roscoe Corey to raise the height
of the dock and the catwalk to 3 1/2' above the ground level,
and the 4 6" locust stakes will be replaced with 6" pressure
.Board of Trustees 3 April 28, 1994
treated poles, an additional 6' X 16' floating dock 121 away
from the current dock held by 2 6-8" pressure treated poles, a
, 3 ' wide ramp connected the dock to the floating dock.. Located
830 Clearview Road, Southold, #89-3-11.5
A motion was made by TRUSTEE WENCZEL and seconded by TRUSTEE
HOLZAPFEL 'to table this application for soundings as this is a
substantial change from existing permit. ALL AYES.
7. Robert Kirk on behalf of CLUB WAVE request a waiver to
construct a grade level cement slab that is 24' X 7' for a Teeki
Bar. Drainage will go into current approved septic system.
Located off South side of Rte. 25, Southold, east of Port of
Egypt. 456-6-7.
A motion was made ,by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE
WENCZEL to deny the waiver and request a full application.
ALL AYES.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TIMES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FORM THE LONG
ISLAND TRAVELER-WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF:
FIVE ( 5) MINUTES OR LESS, IF POSSIBLE
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
Due to clerical error the following public hearing was not
published, however the public hearing will be held tonight, kept
open and published for the May 26, 1994 regular meeting.
Lawrence Matzen on behalf of GARDINERS BAY ESTATES to
install stairs, 3 ' X 25' catwalk, 3' X 12' ramp, one 4' X 48'
main float, two 3 ' X 14' and one 6' X 16 ' finger floats,
pilings. Located end of Dogwood Lane .right-of-way south of
Bayview Drive, East Marion. SCTM #37-4-17.
Would anyone here like to speak against this application? Would
anyone here like to speak in favor of this application?
LARRY .MATZEN: I have gone over this before on past meetings.
The last the meeting was a. meeting in January. You had spoken
of all those papers from the last few years .and told us what you
wanted to now about it. I have not heard anything from
anybody. One -thing, the CAC was against this from -the very.
beginning. They called it a marina. I talked to Bruce
(Loucka) , I don't know what his meeting was two days ago. I
think they are in favor of it know. Another thing it is only 4
boats going with two. fingers. There is -an existing 6 ' X 16'
finger now. (changed tape)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: A couple of weeks ago we met with Ray Cowan
who is the regional director of DEC. Their interpretation of a
marina, whether it is a association marina or a commercial
marina, they view your marina shellfish closure wise as they
• ,Board of Trustees 4 April 28, 1994
would a commercial marina. I am sure that is where that comes
from.
L. MATZEN: They have never called us marina. If you say boats
in the water, that is a marina. They have called us a boat
basin right along. They have never called us a marina. Are you
going to go by the Town laws or what DEC is saying?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, I am just trying to clear that one point
up. I am not making an issue of that. I am just trying to
clarify that.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: what .he is trying to' say at the same time is
that the DEC will consider it perhaps a marina. If they do
that, that has built into it certain shellfish closure
requirements. They might have to close that area to
shellfishing because of the fact that the boats are there. That
is all they are saying.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You should know as owners, of the bottom, you
should be concerned with. That is your concern because you are
the owners of the bottom.
CHARLES LUSCHER: I believe the bottom has been closed to
shellfishing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright, thank you.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Just to be sure. What Al read was a little
bit different than what you said. Am I correct?
L. MATZEN: We are asking for one floating dock with two
fingers added onto one that is already there. We are not adding
six boats we are only adding four boats. We .are willing to
limit, I said this before that I will put this in writing, we
are willing to limit one boat per person for. an upland member.
Last year it was only ten. You don't fill up a place .complete.
Everybody doesn't have a boat that lives in a certain area.
There are 31 water front people and only 26 boats. One has four
boats and one another guy has two. We will never get to the
point where we are going ,to put in enough boats to cover
everybody. According to our deeds they have a right to go on .
our lake. That is why we would consider only one boat per
upland member and not to add any more boats than these four on
that property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In your deed is it the right to access that or
is that the right to build a structure?
L. MATZEN: We own the bottom. In another words we are allowed
to put a boat in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All right, other concerns I had. I have
considered it a marina, I always have and you know that. One of
the things that I would like put on there are marina type
restrictions. Such as C&R' s added to the property that no
boat would have a marine toilet docked at that facility and that
this wouldn' t. be used at a boat storage area. We only have 75'
of jurisdiction. Which you probably have some further property
towards the road. We wouldn't want to see that used as a boat
storage facility or people repairing boats on that property
there.
L. MATZEN: We have a 1.61 ' work boat there right now. We don' t
have any other place to put it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that an association owned boat?
Board of Trustees 5. April 28, 1994
L. .MATZEN: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well. what I was thinking of was that the six or
ten boats being moored there being. parked there every year and
people scrapping the bottoms and draining the oil and all the
associated maintenance that. goes along with that.
L. MATZEN: No. We don' t allow that. We don't allow
operable/flush over board marine toilets either.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So you wouldn't have a problem with us putting
that on a permit?
L. MATZEN-. That's fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does anyone else have any questions?
TRUSTEES: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I apologize for the inconvenience of having you
come back next month.
L. MATZEN: Do you want it in writing about the limit of one
boat per upland member.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. What we want is that no boats be stored
there and no marine toilets. That is what I would like to 'see.
I.n that case that would have the same type of control that we
have over a commercial marina.
L. MATZEN: We also have another rule that you are not allowed
to sleep overnight on a boat.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Any approval that might come of this would be
strictly limited to this application. It would not be a
precedent setting thing. If you wanted to expand the next year.
L. MATZEN: Each one would be an individual thing.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I just want to make sure you understand that.
we are reviewing this exclusively to add four.:boats:.. in.. and
nothing else.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Without any further comment, I take a motion to
recess the hearing.
TRUSTEE WENCZELL: So moved.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7: 46P.M. - In the matter of DANIEL B. LYONS
request a wetland permit to construct a. 6' X 16' float, a 3' X
14' ramp and a 3 ' X 10' platform with 2 pilings. Located. Lot 71
Cedar Beach park at Bayview, Southold.
Is there anyone here to speak in favor of this application? Is
there anyone here to speak against this application? CAC
comments: The council recommends approval with. the stipulation
that the project does not impede the navigation of others. The
CAC suggest that the applicant plant the exposed bank. with
sparti:na alterna flora or spartina patents.
TRUSTEE AOLZAPFEL: Move to close the hearing
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I' ll make a motion to approve the application
along with the CAC Comments.
TRUSTEE CARRELL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:50 P.M. - In the matter of ANNA STALZER
request a wetland permit to construct inkind 100' of timber
bulkhead, within 18" of existing bulkhead and backfill with
Board of Trustees 6 April 28, 1994
approx. 40 c.y. of clean fill. Located 6190 Peconic Bay
Blvd. , Laurel. 128-2-5.
Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of this
application? Is there anyone who would like to speak against
this application? CAC recommends approval with stipulations.
that the applicant plant beach grass at the ten foot flat area
behind the bulkhead for stabilization.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Motion to close hearing.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: A motion to approve subject to the
recommendations to the CAC.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:51 P:M.. - In the matter of DAVID GORDON
requests a wetland permit to construct additions and alterations
to residence as per survey dated Dec. 7, 1.993. Located N.E.
side of Bungalow. Lane, Mattituck. #123-3-10.
Would anyone here who would like to make any comments in favor
of this application? Is there anyone here who would like to
comment against this application? CAC recommended approval
with conditions. The Council recommend approval provided the
applicant install a berm to contain runoff on the property also
keep all new septic installations at least 150' from the wetland
line.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I had a questions about the septic system.
It is on the road side. I will go along with the CAC comments.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You would go along with the regrading?
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have to be really specific about this.
regrading. The CAC recommendations Are really vague.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Do you want to clarify that Bruce?
CAC- BRUCE LOUCKA: I can not, because I, didn't see it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: .We can not just say that, because we can end up
with a structure . anywhere.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I was there during snow cover. So I don't
know. Can we table it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You can approve the permit subject to review of
the proposal subject to the .soil conservation and recommend that
the applicant follows there recommendations. Unless you can be
specific, there is no sense.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Seconded. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE CARRELL: I. make a motion to approve the permit of
David Gordon subject to the placement of . staked hay bales on the
property at the 10' contour line and follow the recommendations
of the Soil Conservation Service.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:58 p.m. - In the matter of CORNELL
COOPERATIVE EXTENSION to conduct scientific research relating to
the growth of cordgrass in fixed height intertidal shelves.
In order to conduct this research we must construct four
intertidal wooden shelves to hold sand as per plans
Board of Trustees 7 April 28, 1994
submitted. Located Suffolk County Marine Environmental Learning
Center, Cedar Beach, Southold.
Is there anyone here who like to comment in favor or against
this application? I know the Board has reviewed this would
anyone like to make a comment on 'this?
TRUSTEES: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. I will entertain a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL: AYES. _
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to approve the application.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE' KRUPSKI: 7:59 - In the, matter of SUZANNE SWICK
requests to construct a one family dwelling with associated
sanitary system. Selective pruning will be done by hand. All
in accordance with revised survey dated March 23, 1994. Located
Route 25, East Marion, East of Causeway on North side. #23-1-6.1
Would anyone like to comment on behalf of this application?
ANTHONY TOHILL: Good evening Mr. Chairman. . I am Anthony
Tohill. I am the attorney for the 5wicks.. This matter was
on public hearing calendar on January 27, 1994 at which time Mr.
Ross', who is present here this evening, appeared on behalf of
the Delanos who are immediately adjacent neighbor to the south
of the proposed construction site. As a result of. which the
Board continued the survey be amended so as to show specifically
the location of the wetlands line and also the proposed septic
system landward of 100' from the standing water- as-per the
Suffolk County Sanitary Code requires. Each of those changes
have now been made and there is only one remaining issue. Which
is the question of whether. or not Mr. Ross' argument of. January
of Section 239.4 of the Zoning ordinance is a persuasive
argument. You will remember that Mr. Ross said that this
property, the site adjacent. Dam Pond is actually adjacent the
Long Island Sound and therefore the construction of the
residence is limited to a point 100 feet landward of the edge of
the -bank. Using the word bank to mean same. as it does under
239.4, the word bluff.. I don' t wish to be lengthy because I know
this is the Trustees, this is not the Zoning Board or the
Building Department. I don't think that the argument has any
length at all to it. If you can just make a not that before you.
read section 239.4 a, which is all that was read in January,
that you first read section 239.4 b. You will see what is
happening. The Town Board didn't forget Dam Pond at all. It
said that "Tidal Waters other than Sounds" from the language of
the Town. After those there are three exceptions.. One, where
the 75' setback, where the tidal water from the sound. There.
there are three exceptions. One the applicant. building landward
of an existing structure. Looking at the Van Tuyl survey you
will see that the border as you move south first there is the
beach, then there is the bluff or bank, then there is the
coastal erosion hazard line clearly shown on the left hand side
of the Van Tuyl survey. That is a matter of law thru the Town
. of- Southold under. the Town Code is 25' landward of the landward
Board of Trustees 8 April 28, 1994
toe of the bluff or bank along the Long Island Sound. Then
there is the existing Swick residence. So if the Swicks
with this application called in the first exception under 239.4
b, then it would be except automatically. However, the property
is not bulkheaded and therefore it doesn' t fall within that
exception. It does fall within the reasoning, but -it is not
squarely within the exception. . If falls within the next
exception which specifically. says applications that brought
before the Trustees under Chapter 97 of the Southold Town Code.
That is how they are hear. They therefore fall into the second
exception. They are in Tidal Water not the Sound. The Town
Board meant to say what it said in subsection b. So, everyone
when you have a chance to read that different code; I think you
will see why the argument initially on the 27th of January
might have been mysterious at best. It is not mysterious at
all. The code if fully able to handle itself. The Town Board
new what it was doing. That subsection a doesn't even apply. I
know Mr. Ross is itching to diminish every part of me, so I am
going to give him that opportunity right now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak in '
favor of this application? Would anyone like to speak against
this application?
DAN ROSS: Yes, Dan Ross.- I am acting for the Delanos to the
south of the property. First off 100-239.4 a. (1) doesn't- speak
of just bluffs, it speaks specifically to a bank. The bank has
been located and identified on the map of the applicant. It was
on the previous map. It has been since then, I don't think
there is any question that it is a bank. By in effect their own
admission. The property does boarder the Sound-. The .house as it
is set out here is located within about 40' of the bank. This
is a question that falls squarely and strictly within the black
letter of that zoning code section- that prohibits a house within
a 100' of the top of bank with respect to lots that boarder the
Sound. I suggest that if there is . going to be some
interpretation of the zoning code, it should be done by the ZBA
with respect to an application for a variance in this case. That
is the first point. The second point is, as far as I know is
the CAC recommendation that it be located 75.' from the bank,
has not changed. Consequently as far as I can see this is still
adverse to the CAC' s recommendations. I suggest that issuance
of a permit in accordance with this application is only going to
confuse any potential purchaser. I don't know if the applicant
has made -ah application for a building permit. In which case
they would be directed to the ZBA, I would expect. The issue
could be cleared. up. But, if you read. the zoning code, the
location of the building as it suggested here, is in violation
of the code. The variance should be applied for an
interpretation obtained before this permit is issued. If for no
other reason to avoid confusion by a potential purchaser or
occupants. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would any one like to speak against this
application? No response. Mr. Tohill?
ANTHONY TOHILL: In case the Board has not gone its own
entrance, there is an unfriendly relationship between Mr. Ross's
Board of Trustees 9 April 28, 1994
clients and mine. Not with standing the CAC' s suggestions, we
are landward of the 13 ' contour. The septic system is more than
100' back. I am . . .the unfriendly relationship may result in a
long term diminution of property values in that area. Here is
how, If the house is pushed back. all that happens is the
property owners widen the house. If he widens the house he now
diminishes everyone landward from him. Perfectly permitted to do
it. When he does that, those landward.-including inacent people
who aren' t even here are going to suffer as a result as this
practice between adjacent property owners. It- is not good
planning. I know that the Board is mindful of good planning.
Inside the particular concerns of the Board of Trustees allow
the envelope and leave it the Building Dept. to figure out
what is allowed and for the Zoning Board to figure out. If the
Delanos wish to make that application. They are perfectly
free to do that, but we are not doing that:.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He has a generous envelope here. You said when
he moves it back that he would have to widen it. If he moved it
back ten feet why would he have to widen it? I am not talking it
about 50' , I am talking about moving it 101 .
ANTHONY TOHILL: That is a 40' scale on that side. That
envelope is plus or minus 50' . . I scaled it with my own,. I took
that 50' between the tidal wetlands line back to the line with a
piece ofpaper and matched them up. I come up with about 50
more feet on the envelope. The- envelope that is shown and the
proposed house that is shown are both very large. The house
wouldn't be built that size. If it gets pushed back 75' on a
40 ' scale. You will be back more than half of--:that; envelope.
So what would happen then they will widen. As they widen then
the landward property owners other then the DeLanos are going
to say what did the Town of 'Southold Building Department do to
me now. Then they are going to find out that that was actually
authored by the DeLanos who themselves are not probably seeing
the net down side. Of course there will be other generations
after we are gone.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It puzzles me as to. . . I am just repeating
Al' s question again.
ANTHONY TOHILL: Go ahead, I am sorry. Maybe I didn't hear it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The proposed house, the building, is inside ,
the envelope. If that house was moved 15' away from the water,
it is still well within the envelope.
'TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is more or less centered within the envelope
then.
ANTHONY TOHILL: You are saying 151 .
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was an arbitrary number.
ANTHONY TOHILL: If you say 15, you will probably will reduce
the punch of my argument substantially. I.f you say 25 . on a 40'
scale then I think my argument is starting to gain strength
again.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It would appear from the scale that you could
get 15 or 20' of that house moved still in the building envelope
but yet almost out or our jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, they know that.
Board of Trustees 10 April 28, 1994
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My question is why is the applicant fighting
over 10 or 15' in that building envelope?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They are not. . They are fighting over 25 ' or
more.
ANTHONY'TOHILL: Just note that if it is 40' scale, 25 ' is
almost 2/3rds .of the distance from the seaward edge of the
building envelope to the outside landward edge of the building
envelope. That building envelope is going to be down to not
very much. The building envelope will be down to 151 .
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Again, I am just trying to delineate. If
that house was moved up 20' . There is approximately at the
shortest end of the building, there is approximately 23 or 251 .
Where it- is saying proposed building. That lowest corner where
it stay property septic system.
ANTHONY TOHILL: Yes.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That distance to the building envelope is
about 24 or 251 .
ANTHONY TOHILL: Right.
.TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Wouldn't serve the Swicks to their advantage
to have house centered within. that building envelope.? Move it
to the south-east about 10 or 15' .
ANTHONY TOHILL: The DeLano house a particular water view.
It is not a full water view: This house is located. . .
TRUSTEE GARRELL: That is the argument. You are building in
somebody else's face..
ANTHONY TOHILL': No actually what we did was, we attempted to
avoid that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:. Yes, I understand that.
ANTHONY TOHILL: We did not see 'them coming on January 27th,
just so you know. That was a surprise. That is why I wasn't
here. That is why I am here tonight. We thought that it was
being located so as to preserve for them that water view that
they have today. There angle -is different. That is what this
is, all about. We are trying not, to build a broad because, it is
not going to serve the long term community benefit.
TRUSTEE CARRELL: Did the DeLanos. and the Swicks ever sit
down and talk about. . .
ANTHONY TOHILL: Yes, that was my first effort. Mr. Ross and I
attempted. We have talked many times.. We have talked as.
recently.as tonight. I said Dan where are we going. This .could
heart people. _ It is not going to work. It is' apparently
something that is obviously has nothing to do with. anything. that
any of us is looking at tonight.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: . These are the kind of issues that we. really
don' t like to get into as. Trustees.. We don't like to sit up as a
judicial board or a board of arbitration between parties. We
really rather work on marshes and wetlands. . . so it puts us in
an unusual position.
MR. ROSS: The DeLanos oppose the application. The house is
proposed .40' from the bank. They not only opposed it, the CAC
opposed it. We came here and opposed it earlier. I 'understand
before Mr. Tohill was retained and they are here again on the
same grounds. They don't think a house should be there.
Board of Trustees 11 April 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Actually the CAC, recommended approval with
stipulations.
MR. ROSS: 75' set back.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI Right.. I would just have to say for the
benefit of the board. I have been out on the site a number of
times. The Swicks have been inconvenience by the fact that .
our last Chairman was taken ill. He had been communicating with
them personally because just geographically he lives in Orient.
Much of that was lost when he took ill and he was no longer able
to function as a board member. So this has dragged on longer
than it should have. I met with Mr. Van Tuyl one day and I
helped him define the wetlands line. That is where the line was
set. Now. I understand why the house isn't in the middle fo
the building envelope. Is there any other comment? Board
members?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is your (Mr. Ross) contention is that the
property is unbuildable?
MR. ROSS: There are a number of questions in terms of what the
over all yield- is on this. You have a tremendous amount of
we You have a right-of'-way here. You have a slope here
that should be taken into consideration. It should be taken
into consideration by the ZBA and by the Building Department
rather than this Board issuing a permit that says you can build
a house there where the zoning code says otherwise. Yes, there
are a �'number .of questions. That is the main one. It is in
black and white. It says nothing within 100' of a bank when the
lot is located on the Sound. This is a bank. It doesn't say a
bluff, it says a bank. That is what this is.%
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I understand. that interpretation. And we did
look into that recently because of our ongoing with the coastal
erosion. - I don't know if the board would interpret bank as
meaning bank on 'an intertidal tidal wetland. I think the board
in this case would consider the bank being in relation to the
bluff or beach or some sort of dune or other structure
associated with the Sound not with -the Town owned intertidal
marsh. Do the Board members agree with that?
MR. BOSS: You are interpreting the zoning code.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In relation to coastal. erosion. I don't think
the Building Department without a Trustee permit. They won't
review it without a Trustee permit.
MR. ROSS: Traditionally the variance comes first at least with
the Planning Board. ' Every time I have been before this Board,
this Board requires a variance in the first instance. Because
without the variance, the location is not appropriate.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Mr. Tohill how much of this property abuts
on the Sound here? 50")
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 1501 .
TRUSTEE WENZEL: Oh 150' . So they own the beach out there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I guess they own the right-of-way too. I don't
know. Do they own the right-of-way?
MR. TOHILL: Yes they do.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So it is 2001 .
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: 200 ' . That wasn't clear to me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 50' of that is a right-of-way.
Board of Trustees 12 April 28, 1994
MR. TOHILL: Yes, that is right. .
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we should be looking at this from an
environmental standpoint., We should be acting on it. I don't
think we should hold it up for a review..
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I kind of .think that we should hold the
hearing open to allow them to address those codes because I
don't know. .
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It is a .question. I have had on a half a dozen
issues. Are we the one to give the permit first and then 'that
in turn allows the applicant to go to the next board. Where this
is a zoning. It is also a wetland application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The way I see it is that zoning pertains to
sounds. It doesn't pertain to. Damp Pond.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I agree. with that comment. The concept of
being a certain distance from the bluff or bank was designed to
deal with the sound and the cliff of the sound. Not the tidal
wetlands that are on Dam Pond..
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Chapter 97 is what was created to regular
activity within tidal wetland areas. Which this is and not on
the sound. So it is two different, it is like apples and
oranges, regulatory.areas. The sound, tidal wetlands.. Chapter
100 Zoning, Chapter 97 Wetlands.
MR. ROSS: Then the variance should come first.
BRUCE LOUCKA: You are a Board, you don't have to deal with
anybody else.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Absolutely.
TRUSTEE ,-GARRELL: I am afraid the buck is going to stop with us
on the environmental ruling. And that is were: it. should. be.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is right. I don't think' you should have
to. let the Zoning Board make our decision.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL It is a wetland application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My feeling and the thing I was hesitant about
originally on the CAC way back was the nebulas quality of
proposed house.. You are saying there are no plans for this
house. So that this proposed envelope, not the envelope the
dotted line showing the house is not cut in stone. . If we
approve that, we are really approving a blank check to build any
house inside the the envelope.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Inside the constraints of that dotted line.
MR. TOHILL: if it is Within 75` of the tidal wetland and you
wish to modify. You have the authority to do that. The only
concern that I have is that if you come back a .full 25' , you got
me down to what I think is 15' . The house would than .h.ave a
front to back of 15' . It is 501 , its 401 . The house should
approximately, the style of house there will be normal.
TRUSTEE 'GARRELL: I don't think there is anything that you can.
say is a normal house anymore when you are trying to basically
shoehorn one inside an envelope where everybody, people are.
really touchy.. You are looking at a 75' constraint. You are
looking at septic system constraints. It would. be nice to see
the plans of that house. Somebody could design a triangle in
there. I don't think they have that in mind..
ANTHONY TOHILL: 'They live there.
Board of Trustees 13 April 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you move that house 10' . If they wanted to
build the replica of the lunar modular, what would be the
problem environmentally. What the house looks like shouldn't be
our concern.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Dan can. I just ask a question? I am trying to
get a sense, if a house was going to be permitted there is it
more significant to your client that it be where it is on this
chart or be moved further back?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Or closure to your clients house?
DAN ROSS: I would need to confer with them on .that..
TRUSTEE GARRELL: If these people, ifor example where to put up
a light house, you know its 10' across and goes way up' and it
gives them the building space they want,. would they then live
with it if it were if it would satisfy the environmental
concerns or woul e d they still come and try to contest it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI But that is. not in the code to specify what
they can build. They can build a light house if they want.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: They Can, sure.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My feeling is that we have right over the
first 751 . We can make decisions on that. Technically speaking
we might be able to get of the 75' or be 70' away, that would
satisfy the board in a much better way. But. if that puts the
house smack dab in position that is "detrimental" to your client
then maybe we can move up 10' and that is what I. am trying to
find out. Do you understand? My feeling and I can't speak for
the board, we see many applications that are like this, that are
wanting to build within 751 . As long as we- can control the
environmental damage of that incursion into that,. area, we will
deal with that. We would approve this kind of thing on many
other occasions. As long as. it is protected. My point is if we
tell him move back, is that making your clients life more
difficult or is where he is putting the house a better position.
Do you know what I am asking?
DAN ROSS: Exactly, I would have to walk the property with my
clients.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are not in the business we are not in the
business of keeping everyone happy, John, we just have to look
at it and say O.K. do we think that the house should be moved
back 10' or do we think .it is fine as it stands 'or do you think
it should be moved back 50' and make a decision based on what is
submitted.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: We seem to get ourselves in the position of
keeping everyone happy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And it doesn't work.
ANTHONY TOHILL: One last remark. Do you see the septic system
and that little double line running from south-west corner of
the house towards the septic system? I was using that same 20'
marker on the side lines to figure out the distance there and I
believe it is 101 . That is a Suffolk County Sanitary code
requirement. That it be 10' from. the edge of the building. You
can reduce it to half by lifting the house. I am worried again
that somebody. . .look where the . it couldn't be any further
from the water and still be on the lot. So know if make that
stay there and you push the house back, they half the 10' under.
Board of Trustees 14 April 28, 1994
the sanitary code to 5' by elevating the house and what have we
just done to the DeLanos view. That is why I am worried about
this one. I think we may heart somebody.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright. Do I have a motion to close the
hearing?
TRUSTEE GARRELL:. So moved.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion on this application? Keep in
mind when we make a motion on this it is 50' from the tidal.
wetlands line is the building envelope. You need. some reference
point. You don't want to go on this building envelope here
because it really doesn't have any geographical reference
point. I think what you want to do 'is that you want to
say. . .say the house is now 55' from the wetlands line. I think
if you want to make a motion, use that. as a marker as a
reference point. Instead of saying you would like to move .the
house back 51 . That is 'in relation to nothing really.
I'll make the motion that we approve the application of the
Swicks with a house no closer than 60' from. the tidal wetland
line. Which would make the house building envelope moved back ,
about 51 , with the condition that there will be absolutely no
disturbance. to any vegetation on the bank or below the 12'
contour to the north and northwest side of. the property. All
roof runoff be contained. within. drywells. The future driveway
will be a permeable substance such as crushed stone, no asphalt
or concrete driveway will be allowed on the property to prevent
runoff. A staked row of- haybales during construction at the
grassed area at the top of the bank.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:31 P.M. - In the matter of the DANIEL
MCCONLOGUE request a wetland permit to construct a 2 bedroom,
1 bath extension to existing. house and stairs, a' 3 ' X 20'
catwalk over existing walk, replace and .repair a 6' X 8; dock as
per revised plans dated March 29, 1994. Located 900 Truman's
Path, East Marion. #3.1-12-4. The revised plans reflect a
change in the change in the stairway going to down to minimize
the amount. of surface area coverage on the slope. Is there
anyone here to speak against this application? Is there anyone
here to speak in favor of this application? The Board has
discussed this at length. I don't know if you want to add
anything .else to it?
BOARD: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then I will entertain a motion to close the
public hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I will make a motion to approve the
application with conditions that there be staked haybales during
construction at the top of the bluff, the roof runoff be
contained. on property in drywells.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 15. April 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:32 P.M. - In the matter of WILLIAM KELLY AND
SANDRA SIKORSKI request a wetland permit to construct a single
family. dwelling with septic system, excavate and backfill
disturbed areas, seed berm pond area.. Located Brigantine
Drive, Southold. #79-4-62. Do I have anyone here who wishes to
speak against this application? Is there anyone here who like
to speak in favor of this application? The CAC recommends
that the applicant provide the Trustees with a survey showing
the extent of the building envelope plan and that the envelope
not be lower than the 15' contour and that any clearing should,
be within the building envelope. Also all areas that are
disturbed for more than one month should be planted with rye
grass. On the survey they have a non-turf area below the 15'
contour line which we would surely have recommended. Without
further comment, do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second., ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make motion to approve the application with
the condition that at the eastern (end, Pond side) portion of
the driveway that the 20' contour. be pushed out to create
swwale at the end of the driveway. If necessary making the
driveway large enough to encompass that swale. You wouldn't
limit them to doing it right in the driveway. To recharge the
water that would possibly come off the road an come done the
driveway so it doesn't run. directly into the pond and to
vegetate that as quickly as possible. A staked row of haybales
at the 15' contour and that area below elevation of the 1.5'
contour will be non-turfed between the maintained.. property and
the pond.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:37 P.M. - In the ,matter of PETER WERTZ to
construct a one family dwelling with septic and leaching pool as
per survey dated March 29, 1994. Located Private off Sunset
Lane. #88-6-15. Is, there anyone here who would like to comment
on this application either in favor or against? CAC
recommends approval. I need a. motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I will make a motion that we approve said
application and there be a 20' non-turf next to the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL. AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8: 39 P.M. - In the matter of ROBERT PATTERSON
request to construct quest, rooms, terrace, walk, deck platforms
and to install additional drywells in existing sanitary system.
All construction activity shall take place on what is now lawn
area. All construction shall take place a minimum of 55' from
freshwater wetlands. A continuous line of staked haybales shall
-be installed prior to and maintained during all phases of
construction activities and an area of' "no disturbance" shall be
maintained. All activity as per enclosed plans as prepared by
bhandler, Palmer & King last dated February 16, 1994. Note:
This project was approved .in 1990, but has expired. Located
Board of Trustees 16 Apri1. 28, 1994
Crescent Ave. , Fishers Island.. #6-1-10. . In 1990 the Board
granted approval for exactly what is proposed.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to .recess public hearing in order to inspect property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The Board kept this hearing open from March 24
meeting in. the matter of VINCENT P. GERAGHTY to construct a two
story building a minimum of 1.7' from the edge of the existing
fill. Parking will be located south of the building and will be
bluestone. Sanitary system will be as close to the easterly
property line as possible and- a minimum of 100' from wetlands.
The existing upland to the west will be used only as a boat
display area. Access between the two sections of upland will be
via a 4' .X 85 ' pedestrian bridge that will span the wetlands and
otherwise developed. All in accordance with revised plan dated
December 21, 1993.. Located Route 25, Southold.. 56-4-13 .3,13 . 4 &
14. Is there anyone here to speak in favor of this project?
ROY HAJE:_ Roy Haje on behalf of the applicant. Mr. Geraghty
is also present. This project has been around in one form or
another for quite some time. In fact, Al I think you will
remember perhaps two years ago when the Board met at the site to
review- the on-site. conditions. At that time it was questioned
what exactly where we going to do. I- think there where comments
made, of course non-binding, that the value of the wetlands
where suspect in that they are heavily impacted by railroad on
the one side, by Main Road on the south side, by the existing
boat usage storage area on the west and by the filled portion on
this property and the residence immediately to. the .east.
Nevertheless we have voluntarily elected to leave all of those
wetlands alone and restrict our '.usage of the property to those
sections which have already been built. The property is
separated from the bay by culverts which go underneath the
road. There is some tidal flow,. but that is certainly
restricted. The tidal flow which does occur is by way of system
of drainage ditches which extends into the property for
drainage. The project we propose, we feel is as benign as
possible given the constraints of the property.. We have to use
as much as possible the area that is now silled because of the
wetlands which we have agreed to leave. The. boat sales and
service building, we recognize is only 17' however in order to
accommodate the parking which is also required associated with
this is why it is the location shown. The sanitary system;
which would be the source of effluent is in the conforming
location and that has been placed as far as possible from those
wetlands and is 100 + feet away. We have agreed. subject to the
approval of what ever agencies might be involved to use a
pervious bluestone pavement in-lieu of asphalt submit ex. . We
have also agreed. to the installation of dry--wells for the
building. We can pre,-staked the area with haybales etc. to
prevent any runoff from that bluff. We intend to keep as much
of the indigenous vegetation as possible. You will note that in
addition to the wetlands area there is a finger of woods which
extend out there, that is also going to remain. We have -done as
much as possible. giving the odd configuration of the property.
Board of Trustees 17 April 28, 1994
Rather than contact it to by means of a land bridge, we will
agree. to the usage of an elevated wooden foot bridge. Which
would allow the continued growth of the small portion of
wetlands which lies below it. Access will be directly from the
road. I think the project has maximized the environmental
attributes of the property and will preserve them. Any
questions, I will be happy to answer. 'them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anyone else to speak in favor
of this application? Would anyone like to speak against this
application? Being no further comment from the audience,.we
have received a memo Mr. Geraghty, from the Planning Board
requesting that they have lead agency. I spoke to Bob Kassner
at length about this and I told him how you had cooperated with
the board on the layout of this. Since you have taken such
steps to minimize the environmental impacts of the property, the
large issue with the Town seems to be the final layout and use
as far as zoning goes and therefore I would recommend that this
board give lead agency to the Planning Board. Let them take the
lead agency and. we will be an interested party. When they are
done with. their process we will vote on the permit. If they
request a change in anything you can come to use for an
amendment to the. application. That probably will not
substantially alter our review of this.
ROY .HAJE: Can we get a sense of the Board now?
TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: -I think you know .my sense of it. We have worked
with Mr. Geraghty quite a bit. I appreciate that kind of
cooperation. I know the pastjpresident has worked on it quite a
bit and he helped to developedthat plan. The. new. board` members
can give a general comment or if they see any major problems on.
it.
TRUSTEE CARRELL: Can you give us a history the past billings
of that area, .when it took place and what was the extent of it.
(the filling) . I am just looking at this at face value.. I
don't have any major questions here. I just don't know the past.
MR. GERAGHTY: .I don't. know the exact year but it was going
on. . . (people talking at once) We did get approval of the amount .
of that was filled there and we maintain the lines that where
set by DEC.-
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: And what year about was date? .
MR. GERAGHTY: It was 5 or 6 years ago'.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The question I think Marty was asking, are
you talking about the violation you got?
MR.. GERAGHTY: No. What I think you are referring to is at one
point after it was filled a party came in and put fill. on the
property. I was notified of a violation on the property.
ROY HAJE: That was filled on top of the fill.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was exactly my question. I had thought
that and I wanted. ...that was dumped on the property not on the
wetlands and then that was removed?
MR. GERAGHTY: And that was removed.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The original fill that when into fill that
was done with a DEC permit?
MR. GERAGHTY: Yes.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Was there a Town permit for that?
i
i
Board of Trustees 18 April 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't believe so.
.MR. GERAGHTY:. I believe it was all done through the DEC at the
time.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Did it pre-date the wetlands ordinance?
How Long ago?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was 20 .years.
TRUSTEE GARRELL.:' That'.s along time ago.
ROY HAJE: It has been filled. for a long time. The current
wetlands ordinance came in when?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:. 71.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was the concern that we had with the
project, when was it filled and to what extent. There was
nothing clear in the file that we have.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Things that where done 25 years ago' by
current .standards, kind of painful. That always crop up in the
review process.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: .If we are going to give this to the. Planning
Board,- we -can ask them to find out.. We will be an interested
agency and .we will ask them to review that. You are .not going
to have both Boards. . .
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Understood.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: ' I need a motion to recess this hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: , I will make a resolution to grant the Planning
Board Lead Agency on. Vincent Geraghty.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second-. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE' KRUPSKI: ' 8:55 P.M. - In the matter of CUTCHOGUE HARBOR
MARINA requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing fixed and.
floating piers, and 102 piles and replace with a 4' wide float
constructed. along the entire perimeter of an existing bulkhead,
3.0 4' wide finger floats, a 5' wide "L" shaped float and a 5.'
wide 90' long main float. Also install 34 mooring piles, 4, 4'
wide ramps and 4, 8' - wide landing floats. All finger floats
Will be secured to at ' least one pile.. All work shall be
accomplished in accordance with survey dated. April 8, 1994.
Located 3350 West Creek Ave. , Cutchogue. Is there anyone here
who would like to speak in favor of this application?
LARRY WILLIAMS: I would just like to reserve to the right to
speak.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In case .there is any opposition?
LARRY. WILLIAMS: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: ' Is there anyone here who would like to speak
against this application? .
MARYANNE HUNTINGTON: I am Maryanne Huntington -and, I am the
President of .the� Fleets Neck Property Owner Association. I . have
prepared a statement on behalf of our organization. Over the
past years and more recently the past several months,' I have
looked through all the applications, the folders, files and all
the agencies that are relevant to this application. I find that
there are a lot of words that are sprinkled throughout. They
are things like compliance, permit, challenges, inspection and I
am not quiet shore that it is another version of a divide and
Board of Trustees 19 April 28, 1994
Conquer. I. just find that when I look at the Planning Board
records, they reflect another angle. I look at the Building
Department records as another angle. I: am really quite
confused. Let me just continue on with my statement. The
current application is of great concern to our association and
especially the residence in the proximity of the .Marina. This
application is interpreted- as an attempt to .reconfigure slips
utilizing 301 floating docks. to accommodate large boats.
Currently about half of the marina is dedicated to motor yacht
residences and transient boaters. Further development can
severely and: unalterably effect our echo system. Specifically
our concerns are; (1) The impact of increase uses of potable
water supply of Fleets Neck, (2) The impact of increase uses on
the water quality of Wickhams Creek and the adjacent
wetlands. Especially without a pumpout. station or an
enforcement of discharge and. dumping infractions. Restroom and
laundry discharge into the cesspool within thirty feet of
bulkheads. (3) The impact. on increase -overnight and extended
parking with the' present usage, especially on weekends is not
adequate.. Although Town signs on West Road indicate no parking
from 10 P.M. •to 7 A.M. Cars are parked there on a regular
bases. Some for several days. ( 4) The marina is lit excessively
until at least 11 P.M. 365 days a year. This . lighting offends
the residence and the nocturnal wildlife. while permitting marina
patrons the use evenings and. day times. this type of . lighting
is contrary to rural character of our community. (5) The noise
to restroom fans, marina patrons, parties and vehicular and boat
traffic,, the outdoor public. television set, etc:. ..is:.:at.:
inappropriate times of day and night. is .deemed a nuisance by'
residence. The Town has been remised' in the past. Permits have .
been issued without appropriate site plans and other documents
in place. The enforcement of codes has been negligible. The
zoning code for Marine I. clearly states what is allowable that
the permitted uses under the code are subject to site plan
approval by the Planning Board. Our association respects the
rights of the owner to improve their property, but not at the
expense of the residence. From more than seven. decades maritime
operations at this have been modest in design and intent and
kept within the character of community and. environment.
Increase usage of boats as residences. have placed a burden on
all the residence of Fleets Neck. Should the currant
infrastructure fail,_ our real property is at risk. In 1958 a
similar situation arose when the expansion of the 'marine was
challenged by' our association and residence in court. Before a.
resolution the marina. rescinded its application. We feel that
this application is detrimental to the echo system, peace and_
tranquility of our community founded on respect of the
environment. Respectfully submitted. I would like to speak
just as a resident of Southold... ' A man owns an auto service
station for 30 years. He has served the community providing gas
and. auto services and he has 'a soda machine. The station is
modest in. design and blends in with the community. He is well.
respected and has_ served the patrons well. Although only
between the hour's of 7 A.M. and 7 P.M. He gets on well with his
Board of Trustees 20 April 28, 1994
neighbors. He .retires and sells his station to an. auto service
conglomerate. The new owners renovate the station. New pumps,
new siding, new paint, new signage, new product displays, new
landscaping and new lights. Replaces the soda. machine with a
coin operated convenience food and. beverages, he ads a
microwave oven, a coffee maker an ice machine, a news paper
machine, . a deliver service drop off, a car wash and an
electronic sign indicating the time and weather report. They
are now open 24 hours a day. Cars stored everywhere on the
property. Mechanics radio blares. They are now advertising
. . .the installation of the new ATM machine. The neighbors are
complaining. It is several years in the future, the station not
only pumps 15 types of petroleum, but has ten electrical
recharge stations for battery operated vehicles. The windshield
wiper blade excluding machine and now a coin garbage disposal.
Although technically still an auto service station, the services
and usage have greatly intensified. Where is the line drawn
between grandfathering or non-conforming use exception and
recognizing that either the zoning or building codes are
obsolete. A use variance should be granted from the ZBA. The
former gas station is unrecognizable and that is where our town
has let us done. Luse this as an analogy. You can draw your
own conclusion. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak
against this application?
LINDA FLETCHER: My name is Linda Fletcher and I live in New
Suffolk. I would just like to say in respect to the lighting.
The lighting is clearly visible from New Suffolk,,Road .365 days a
year across the creek, across the Wickham orchard. The lighting
is not what people come to live in New Suffolk for.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Is there anyone who hasn't spoken?
Anyone else in general?
PHIL WANAT: Phil Wanat, Cutchogue Harbor. In response to a
couple of the questions or issues that have been raised. One of
the requirements of our permit is for a pump out stations.. so I
think that is. a mute point. Secondly there was some special
considerations . asked of us by the Board to fulfill which you
well now that we did and they were in our favor. I. believe the
CAC inspected it and we have their approval as well as other
organizations. We have obtained a DEC permit and Corp of
Engineers. I would object to the Board putting . any other
requirements on our permit except for what is already there and
to look at it for what it is. The Trustees wetlands
application. And that is it. Lets look at this for what it is
and not get of the track of anti science. Thank you.
JOE LARUSO: It is important that you know that the. proposed
plan is not for expansion. What the intention is is to do away
with unsafe existing conditions, poles that need to be changed,
floating docks that would convenience our customers. As far as
expansion, this is not an expansion project. We have in the
past with regards to lighting, we. have spent hours and days and
evenings in full cooperation with the Town to try and alter the
lighting and we are still open for some suggestion.
Board of Trustees 21 April 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. If I could address the lighting
issue. Every contentious public hearing we have has to deal .with
neighbors. It is a matter of getting people to understand that
they have to live in the community with each other and to try
and work out the problems. That is the lighting problem. If
you could some how resolve that, we would appreciate it.
PHIL WANAT: We will look into it Albert.
MRS. HASSILDINE: I have a concern about the water usage of all
these over night. Since when. does marine I allow people to come
and spend there vacation on there boats. Which is what happens
with the larger docks. This is a boatel operation coming in
here now. Which is what we voted down and and fought about in
1958. And. we are doing it again. They don't have their own
water. I myself had to get a new well this Winter,. I ran out of
water; salt intrusion. Some people up the. block: . .as a matter of
fact at one time at the past Planning Board I was asked to go up
and down the block and find concerned citizens and have them
sign a paper. It think a got quite a few signatures. Where'
that paper is, I don't know. It is in the record somewhere. I
think. that this file has to be looked over very, very thoroughly
before you approve anything else beyond the means of our creek
and our residence.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. HUNTINGTON: I would like to say just one thing that in
looking over the records I see that. . .I know the marina has made.
some sort of. attempt to meet the requirements of Board of
Trustees. However, I would really be reluctant to pass any or
permit any growth until we are absolutely sure.,.that.,all their
permits are in place. That those cesspools are there legally.
I have not seen one shred of evidence that gives permits. for
those cesspools, not one shred. It is these little details that
make for very difficult feelings. It makes it very ,difficult for
us to compromise. Our attempts to compromise initially was just-
totally just disregarded and when I look through the Planning
Board recommendations and the request for information from the
marina .dating back to January for a site plan. Why was the site
plan just initiated? How do, tell what is and what was? Can you?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well, to answer that, Cutchogue Harbor Marina
applied for this application. in. April of 1993 and for various
reason we did not begin to review this until recently. One of
the problems was 'that we did not have an accurate survey and
that was one of the conditions that they had to, as all
applicants are required to submit. one of our concerns of
course was water usage on the site and that. if in fact the
sanitary system was capable of handling their water usage. The
Marina submitted not only to a dye test recently, which past and.
Suffolk County Health Department preformed, also they agreed to
a' dye test later on in the Summer by the Health- Dept. We had
the Bay Constable there, no Trustees were involved.
MS. HUNTINGTON: Where are the permits for those cesspools?
Where is the permit for the water supply?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The Health .Department regulates the sanitary
system.
Board of Trustees 22 April 28, 1994
MRS. HASSELDINE: Where are the permits for the Laundromat? It
is Marine I.
MS. HUNTINGTONi: I was recommended .that it was removed. Was it
removed? No. Where is compliance?
MRS. HASSELDINE: What about that it was recommended that they
do not have a sprinkler system to water their flowers and
plants, but it is there and they use it. Sometimes it is on
.while it is raining.
MS. HUNTINGTON: I understand that you asked them or they said.
that they would water: I don't understand how they would meter
their water. The individual user or from the, well, from the.
pump? How are they metering it?
TRUSTER KRUPSKI-: I am not sure yet. Probably from the entire
source of the water.
LINDA FLETCHER: Are you supposed to ask the applicant if they
have Suffolk County Health Department permits for what they have
done? Do they have it? Yes or no?
TRUSTEE- KRUPSKI.: I will let the marina answer that.
LARRY. WILLIAMS: This plan has been in• the works for two years. . I
did a lot of. work with John (Trustee Bredemeyer)- and I would
like to answer specifically the sanitary repairs. When that
happened we addressed this with Suffolk County Board of Health
automatically. They declared that this was maintenance and it
would not require a permit. However, we failed to ask the Town.
We were made aware that we needed a permit for the Town, we did
so and filed the application. In regards to the pump, the well
is . . .inaudible, under a house with a variance. It is a thirty
gallon a minute well. It serves that residence::and;.the marina.
A normal house has a 10. to 15 gallon a minute well. 'Anybody who,
has well water can attest to that. All you have to to is go in
the basement.. Water usage as. far as the sprinklers go, one- zone
at a time', 15 minutes at night.
MS. HUNTINGTON: Excuse me, excuse me. Would you like the photos. .
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let him finish first so we keep this orderly.
LARRY WILLIAMS: I would like you look at it for what it is.
These are none issues.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They are and they aren't. Because when we
review,. and as a matter of explanation, the application, we do
the application mainly as a marina configuration. Now we are not
going to come into a marina and tell them that you have to put
your docks this way, no you have to put them this because that
is a matter of economics. They have to run their business and .
that they have to do it that way. As far as the larger boats
go, are Trustee policy is not allow any boats larger then 35' to
more in Town Creeks. The reason is that we would like to
encourage larger boats' to be in a marina where they can be
regulated, by things such as pump out stations, signs to
encourage use, log books. which will be submitted to the
Trustees to show the amount of pump out and the dates. As far as
any application goes, when the Board looks at any application,
we look at the entire project. We don't just look at that one.
I.f someone comes in for a tennis court, we look at the entire
project. We don't just look at that one. If someone comes in
for a tennis court, we will look at the entire project to- see if
Board of Trustees 23 April 28, 1994
we can't make some sort of other improvement. So when we look at
water use, we are treating you no differently than we are
treating any other applicant. Because we try to improve the
entire property while we are working with- that.
JOE LARUSO: Al it is important from my point, of view that the
Board understand' that we do not have a blatant disregard for
marine echo system; its quite the contrary. We are all boating
people. We have very stringent requirements on our marina with
regards to boats discharging overboard. We 'have a no discharge
policy. Anybody that discharges in the lagoon is discharged
from the marina. We have very strong feelings about that.
Forget the fact that we are businessmen and we have a right to
have a, return on our investment. We also have a regard for the
marine environment. I. live in Strongs Neck in setauket, a
very sensitive area. Right next door to Plocks Pond. I have
been. there for 30 years. I understand all these things.
Sometimes I feel like we are being painted as people who just
have a disregard for this condition. I am have been on the
water for all my life. I lived on .Eastchester Bay in the
city. I am 'a licensed capt. I was in a submarine, I was a
navigator in the navy. My whole life is marine. I: just wanted
to make that point. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Yes.
MICHAEL BENDER: I would only like to make a comment, I am
Michael Bender, one of the owners, about the water usage. This
is. not any kind of an accurate. precision survey, but' we use
water on the docks only approx. four months' of the year. The
other eight months +/_ it may be turned on. It:.,isn!.t. even.
turned on, for more than six months of the year at the docks.
For at least two of the six months it probably gets an
extraordinary small amount of use. The four months that it is
uses, and of course we all know that there. are only two months,
July and August, that there is any significant use, the majority
of the use is on the weekends. On Saturdays and Sundays. There
is. .very, very little use out side of that. I won't say there is
no use, there are occasionally people that .use the marina during„
the week in the two months. On that basis, by the way very few
people sleep aboard their- boats, there are very few boats, I
don't.-think there are more than 15 or 20 boats that could
accommodate people- sleeping on Board. How many do you think
there are? You are shaking your head.
MS. HUNTINGTON: Well, from my living room window, I can see at
least 20 boats in that basin that are in excess of thirty feet.
I' know for fact that there are people that live on those boats
all season long.,
MICHAELBENDER: You had your boat at the marina, did you live on
your boat.
MS. HUNTINGTON: Absolutely not.
MICHAEL BENDER: Were there any people in the north basin living
onboard?
MS. HUNTINGTON: Yes there was.
MICHAEL BENDER: were there any large boats in the north basin..
MS. HUNTINGTON: Well there was Bettaboo and there was at least
five boats that I know of where people weekended on that. . .
Board of Trustees 24 April 28, 1994
MICHAEL BENDER: There were not any large boats in the north
basin.
MS.. HUNTINGTON: .Not, large, but people. . .
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: ' Alright, I think we are. . .
MICHAEL BENDER: My point 'is that I think the marina when looked
at for the time period that it operates and for the amount of
water that it uses during that ,time period, it is probably less
then some of the residence, some of the very large residences'
that operate full time all year round. Thank you.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I guess-1 have-. just . a few questions and
permit me to expand beyond the simple permit here or what seems
to be an attempt' to reconfigure. The marina issue,. the question
is- to- what extent are the cesspools tested regularly for dye
testing and communication with the bay? Are they tested. by the
Board of Health on a regular basis? Have 'you ever thought about
doing plantings instead of putting in sprinkler. systems? Have
you ever considered monitoring your water use carefully. It is
obvious . from the scuttlebutt from Fleets Neck that there is a ,
water us problem. A ground water problem, a saltwater intrusion
problem. It sounds like down the line .there has got to be some
solution that demands water conservation and reduce water use.
The indications seem to be there. Have you ever given thought to
those kinds .of remedial measures to satisfy the people?
LARRY WILLIAMS We have our water tested annually. I would also
like to address• salt water intrusion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What is it. tested for.
LARRY WILLIAMS: Salt and PH. It is a standard_ water test done.
by HMO. ,
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Dye testing of the septic systems?
LARRY WILLIAMS: I would like to explain dye testing. I was born
and raised on the water on the western end. Dye testing is use
primarily to see- if somebody pipes from an. overflow pool through
your bulkhead. Years ago in Western.Nassau and am sure out here,
it did exist. Little by little as government got involved they
stopped it. Dye testing is to prove that you are not piping
overboard. It is not to see if it leaks through the ground.
Although .it can be used.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: It can be.
LARRY WILLIAMS: In this case it was used and negative results.
We did and we agreed to do it again when we are in full use.
MICHAEL BENDER: The water testing that was done "showed this year
there was less salt in the well water than in the previous year.
LARRY WILLIAMS: I was inquisitive as to how we get salt water
intrusion, so I called up NYS Public Service. The head of
water quality. He, told me that most of our salt water intrusion
are" the results of storms'. December 11, I think last year the .
August storm when we had tide rising. Leaching from the top. I
saw in Suffolk. County Board of Health my second inquiry on salt
water intrusion and I was shown a graft of where the bed rock
is. Salt water intrusion most when drawn down _from. wells is
brought this way, not this way and that is a fact.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: it depends on pressure gradients and its
complicated because of the soils and the rock structure. The
only way to determine what is going on in Fleets Neck all over
Board- of Trustees 25 April '28, 1994
is to take the area and really give it a good look. The only
stuff we have now is anecdoteic,' but it sounds. like there could
be a problem with wells that are effected by salt water
intrusion with ground water that is being depleted and obviously
that anecdotes are not enough. You have to go to a survey. What
I. am thinking is, if water is a touchy commodity -in the area
then perhaps efforts could be made, at least until a study is
complete to do a ' little bit more with water conservation. With
monitoring water use. The same way people do things in touch
areas upstate. Because you are all neighbors and. sooner or
later what is going to effect one persons well is going to
effect every bodies. well. Those are the lines that I am thinking
on. It is tough to see people who are at different logger heads
and nobody is talking in terms of neither compromise- or getting
together on some common' solu.tion.. Down the' line. in Fleets Neck
everybody has to life together. Again I am new to this Board.
This is the first I have seen this issue come up and there are
some hot. feelings that go back along way. I wish for the sake
of everybody living out on the North Fork that we can turn the
clocks back to 1958 or even if we . can turn it back to 1975 _ the
way it was when I first came out here.. The expanding marinas or
expanding water uses and more people out here,. they .are part of
the picture and somehow we have to learn to live with it.
LARRY WILLIAMS: One other- thing that was discussed while I was
at the Board of Health, I- spent a good 2 1/2,3 hours there. It
was very. informative. I brought documentation, DEC permit for
the installation of well way back when. Gallons per minute that
the pump draws, max. and he said the depth of:- the well, which.
is 55' when the pump rest, he said that there is no doubt in my
mind that that pump cannot draw down the water level in that
area. As a matter of fact once a year we go around and test the
wells. We get a lot of complaints. Matter' of fact last weekend
they were right down on Fleets Neck; on West Road. I don't see
our well as being a problem to anybody in -the neighborhood. I
think the numbers prove it. We also have a program in effect
that would have been implemented already this year except the
teamster strike, that we are going to aerate the property and
put ceramic plugs. - Which will cut our water usage in half' as
far as the grass area.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ceramic plugs?
PHIL WANAT: Moisture in the ground.
LARRY WILLIAMS: It retains the natural. rain water. and lets it
come out. . . .
TRUSTEE GARRELL: So you will sprinkle less.
LARRY WILLIAMS: . . .what it looks likes we doing is a problem and
these are the efforts we. have put forth .to alleviate them. Even
'though we don't 'feel we are a problem to the area, we are making
steps to improve our water use, to cut down on it.
MRS. HASSILDINES-: I don't know what wells where tested but I
live right next door to the house in which the well is the one .
that supplies the harbor. The other question that I have. —I
understand there is no test well in Fleets Neck usually there
are in other areas, when they attempted to get a test well or
get a general idea of the water that they found out ,,that there
Board of Trustees 26 April 28, . 1994
is none on Fleets Neck. I don't know of any other residence
that have had there well tested. I do know four homes that. have
new wells -put in because of salt water .intrusion. The other
thing I. wanted to ask was in the Marine I, in the. code I believe
it specifies that only certain things that relate to. a marina
can be sold. In this enlargement they also .sell newspapers and
a few other little items that have nothing to do with marine
activity. It is just getting bigger. In the code, does it
specify in Marine I that there cannot be any living on the .
boats. I think it was something for like an overnighter, a 24
hour. period. The other think is there in the code for Marine I
facility, is there 'a laundry facility. I know that the people
who had the marina that had the marina before asked to have a
laundry facility put in and where denied. .I don't know how they
happen to :have a laundry facility. I don't 'no where the permit
is. What happened? It just seems to be getting bigger
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI-: I understand.' I know what you are saying.
MRS. HASSELDINE: We are really worried about the expansion.
We also are boat people. We also love the. marina as far as
being there. But not. at our expense. Things are being done
that are not right.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: As far as a. lot of your concerns, I hate to
pass the buck, but a lot of them are not our concerns of this
Board. With government as big as it is you have to go to the
proper agencies to-make those complaints and to get compliance
of the marina on those, if there are inappropriate actions down
there. As far as ' the water uses, what Marty Garrell was
saying about. the whole community at large is. relevant. As the
marina expands, bungalows are converted to year round residences
water use increases dramatically in an area that is really
highly developed, like Fleets Neck.
MS. HUNTINGTON: I did a democraf.ic study of the residence that .
belong to the association. 70% of the residence belong to the
association. About 62% are year round residence. I think 18%
are part-time residence. Traditionally, we experienced with.
hurricanes and floods almost every year.. Some worse then others.
We have never experienced the loss of that many wells in that
short of period of time. I purify my own water using manual
needs. I don't use the Culligan system, nothing. I can tell from
my yield what the problems are. I can't tell whether it is salt
or Iron. I just know they are contaminants. I also know that
during the period of say February to June, that is the best time
for water. By the time September., October, November comes
around,' I" am getting a. much smaller yield. It seems to me that
.it doesn't just by turning a facet on in the one household is
not going to deplete the water supply. Regular usage. The marina
is a wet business. I see people washing their boats all the
time. They go out on the bay and they come back and the next
thing they conduct is that they hose their boat down. The hose
is left lying. I see people bringing their -boats on a trailer,
parking it on the street and hosing it down. If there is a
family of four living on a boat', that is going to be four
showers on that day, plus whatever cloths. I don't know, I
never really lived aboard my boat very long, but I know if I
Board of Trustees 27 April 28, 1994
washed my lunch dishes, more than likely than not I would
probably toss the water over the side rather than fill up my
holding tank. I. know in the other marina, Brick Cove, there is
sealed heads, there is this and there are a lot of
stipulations. Here is a situation where the. marina people came ,
in, they bought the marina. I' can't imagine. I would never buy
a house that didn't have a well. They are proposing a large
business and they invested probably a lot money, more than all
of us has together. I. see that, but the overall impact to our
environment from their continued expansion and alteration of the
use. . That is probably isn't a Board of Trustee issue, it is a
Planning Board. 'It says in the code that you need site plan
approval. They have not complied with the Planning Board's
request. To me it just looks like another way to divide and
conquer. Split everyone apart, split us apart., split our
neighbors apart and to what end. So they can have a bright new
marina with very large boats to their enjoyment and the rest of
us would just have to. go a long with it and suffer.
LINDA FLETCHER: Al is there some way that their -can be a
coordinated review of this project.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: With who else the DEC has already done SEQRA
and already issued permits. That is who we normally coordinate
with,' Army Corp. of Engineer and DEC.
LINDA FLETCHER: What about the Planning Board?
TRUSTEE FLETCHER: They are totally separate. Our concerns are
really the environment. You are really talking apples and
oranges as far as whether they are allowed to sell newspapers,
its nothing to do. . .. our concern is water quality:- I. don't
think that. we can even legally challenge water usage. That
should be a community affair where everyone is involved in
conservation and' in water use I. You say your water quality goes
down- in the summer, it is .understandable. The whole area is
being maximized for water use.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Same aquifer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Same aquifer. It is not just the marina that is
busy. Everybody is busy.
MS. HUNTINGTON: What I am trying to say is that we are a fairly
stable population. we are not going up in the Summer and making
incredible demands on the water. If youride around Fleets Neck
you will .see that there are not many green lawns during the
Summer months. You will find that people don't have sprinkler
systems and that they don't water their lawns.
TRUSTEE GARRELL:, Yeah, but there is a long term thing too that
you have had people -out on the neck along time. There are many
family' s have been there. Population has increased somewhat.
Over a period of. 30, 40 years you will start to see some of
those shallower aquifer impacted by strictly long term use. I
see three issues which are at stake here. The one that is
perhaps the most serious over the long hall is water problems on.
Fleets Neck. That is something that we are not going to solve
in one evening. It is going to take a community approach. It is
probably going to take a study and it is going to take some
serious work. Secondly, the questions as to whether the marina
is following current regulations and restrictions and. has all
Board of Trustees 28 April 28, 1994
its prior permits in place. That is something to be taken up
with individual agencies and if there- is non-compliance to be
addressed through legal means if you have to. The third thing
and unfortunately the thing that we are supposed to address here
is just one application for reconfiguration. We are constrained
as Trustees to look at that application on its merits. We have
asked our Town lawyer to what extent do other issues, passed . :
issues, of compliance and permitting can hold back a new
application. Her original feeling I think was that. it is
illegal to hold somebody up on a current application because
there are problems or questions about past procedures. This was
her interpretation. So to me those are the three things we are
looking at. Just as a matter of conscience I. don't think we
should give short, trip of past permits regulations and
restrictions. We do have to go on sometime tonight, we do .have
to go on to the. application for reconfiguration. Just
addressing that permit., we have been told by the. current marina
owner that this is really only a reconfiguration., that there
will be no increase in the number of- boats and that this does
not represent an expansion of the marina- in terms of usage. I-
would like to know your specific objections to that.
MS. HUNTINGTON: I have here the Army Corp. of Engineers public
notice and it says here that the activity is.,to 'renovate, expand
existing marina. If .you go out one extra foot into the .creek
that is an expansion it may not be a big one and I am- not going
to argue the point . . .
TRUSTEE GARRELL: You see what I am .driving at though?
MS. HUNTINGTON: I do, but what I am saying is._.that. .I .am looking
at the Army Corp. of Engineers public notice and it calls it an
expansion. How they propose it to you or the DEC., I don't know.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI-: We agree with that, but we don't want to get in
the business of telling a.marina. how they should configure their.
docks- or what size boats they have to keep. ' Although on
commercial marina we placed, C & R' s on that there. . .it ' is a
small boat marina and it is on our best shellfish resource and
we have imposed a no head restriction in that marina. We take
marina by marina'. There is another marina in Greenport that we
imposed.quite: a few other environmental. constraints. As we take
marina by marina we are prepared to impose environmental
constraints based on our concern for water quality. That is our
big concern is the discharge of boats.
MS. HUNTINGTON: Are you prepared to that in this marina?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are prepared to do it with every marina..
MS. HUNTINGTON: The heads will be sealed?
TRUSTEE .KRUPSKI:, We are not prepared to seal the heads on this
one because we don't have any: . .
MS. HUNTINGTON: Evidence of contamination or ... .
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:' Discharge. That is right. - We are prepared to
also have the septic system tested later on in the season to
make sure that is not contaminating the waterway. As far as
their configuration, we don't want to get into that business of
saying how you have to ,lay the docks out. If they want larger
boats—the economy drives the size of the boats, we can't
dictate that.
Board of Trustees 29 April 28, 1994
MS'. HUNTINGTON: But you can dictate other areas of that. For
instance the laundry facility or. the . . .
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't see how we can regulate a laundry
facility.
MS. HUNTINGTON: Well it is in the code.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Chapter 97?
MS. HUNTINGTON: No. In the Zoning Code.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We .are operating under Chapter 9.7.
CHANGED TAPE-:
MS. 14TMINGTON: Over the years I have gone to everyone. The
Association has gone, to everyone. We have gone to every agency
including the CAC just trying to find out what is right and
what is wrong. Not really pointing fingers or not really saying
you did this or you did that. Wanting to define the code or
interpret .some of these rulings that are so allian to us. One
gas station puts up lights and the Planning Board makes them
take it down. The marina puts lights and all they do is make
them point them down. They are still ugly, they are still
bright. That is what we are trying to find. We all agree that
lighting is essential. We need some lighting for our security or
the security of our boats, but it doesn't have to be lit .like
Yankee Stadium.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Lets go back to the water issue for a minute.
if. some of us where sitting here say two years ago, three years
ago and we were hearing the stories now that we here about water
use and water resources -on Fleets Neck and a marina came in and
asked to put in laundry facilities and put in sprinkler systems
in an application to change that marina, I think, .we would. vote
to deny. At least pending a very serious -water study of the
entire, Neck and that acquifer. The problem is now that. those
things are on site and in place.. The only legal recourse you.
might have is to find out somehow if they were legally sited and
if those things are in violation of permit. If they are not
then to me your recourse can only become working with the
operator and seeing if you can work out an arrangement of water
conservation. It is, a very touchy thing, but I don't think we
are empowered now to rescind previous application or permits on
such things as laundry's or. . .
MS. HUNTINGTON: There were no permits:
MRS. HASSILDINE: They never had permits, they just did it.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: That is a different issue.
MS. HUNTINGTON: That is in question. They maintain that is
replacement to existing: We have over the years provide
affidavits, provided information from the onset that there where
no cesspool rings where they placed it. The previous owner
attested to it. The previous tenants, mechanic service attested
to it. They where issued a citation. They addressed it this
very room. They first maintained that they weren't there. Then
they maintained that it was a repair. Then they admitted that
they didn't have Ipermits for any of that information. The tape
failed. We don't have. . .we . are just taking about something. . .it
is all water under the damn. Two years ago we stood .in the same
room, with the same body of people and made the same
Board of Trustees 30 April 28, 1994
complaints. And then they 'get the assessed value of their
property reduced by 1/3 . I don't get it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI & GARRELL: We are getting to . . .
MS. HUNTINGTON: I am going out in the hall.. Ham not saying
anymore. I have said my piece. You know my sentiments. You know
the sentiments of our organization and our community. I
understand the constraints placed on you with the application.
I_ think we have to make our sentiments known to you. and the
depth of our feeling and for the risk the we feel that we share
and our property value.
MS. HASSILDINE: We look to our town for help.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You had some questions John?.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I have a couple of questions. One is the
ratio of transient slips that you? In other words, how many
open slips do you have?
MICHAEL BENDER: . We probably have 60 to 65% occupancy. Maybe a
little less. Maybe 55% seasonal occupancy and maybe anywhere
from 5 to 10% in the . very busiest time of the season we have
transients. It has not been a particularly good business in the
past. There was several things I wanted to say. -I am just,
going to say two of them. One is that I feel .that it is
unreasonable to have unsubstantiated allocations of illegal
behavior spewed out by Ms. Huntington that are absolutely untrue
and that have been proven. The second thing is I don't know how
can dispute a regional problem of water and how I can deal with
the blame somehow being locked onto the marina. I would say the
marina today, because of economic conditions., the marina has
probably used 1/2 to 5/8ths approx. of the water--that it ' ,
.would have used in previous years when it was filled with
people. Filled and overflowing with people and. no available
slips. As.- Mr. Laruso points out, when we bought the marina the
water leaked everywhere there wasn't a pipe around the docks
that didn't leak. We replaced all the piping with brand new
piping there isn't a leak in the marina piping.
TRUSTEE- GARRELL: It sounds like you. . .you act like you are
aware of the problem and the one thing I wonder about is. how
much you can do with your water users or the marina users to get
them to be very aware and to have them institute personally
water conservation measures. With people who are boaters tend
to 'be environmentally minded, water conservation minded.
MICHAEL BENDER: We can certainly attempt to have an educational
process. Put signs around. .the marina on the docks asking our
patrons to conserve water.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Then if you could monitor your water use you
could actually see it decrease seasonally or yearly. I think- the
long term problem of water on Fleets Neck may not go away, but
at least you will buy your self some, time.
MICHAEL BENDER: We could meter our water as well.- There is a
house that also draws water from the well and that would be
something that would be -independent. But we could meter .the
supply of water to the marina.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One more comment because we. . .
TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL: I started my question, the. first one was
. about transient and you said that it is a very small business.
Board of Trustees 31 April 28, 1994
The second question I had was• just about the opposite. Is there
any mechanism in the marina to prevent people living there for
two months.
MICHAEL BENDER: It is not permitted. It is_ not in accordance
with our contract.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: What is- in accordance with your contract?
MICHAEL BENDER: We don't permit live-a-boards.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Saturday night?
MICHAEL BENDER: People are allowed to stay on. there boats and it
is not uncommon for approximately 20 boats (20-30 boats to be
fair) could stay on board and typically the only times people
stay on board are Friday and Saturday nights.
JOE LARUSO: There has been in the five years that we own the
marina there has been only three family's that consistently_ have -
stayed on their boats for. any length of. time. They stay at the
marina on their boats once the kids are out of school and they
are there for the month of July and part of August. It three
f ami ly'-s.
TRUSTEE- HOLZAPFEL: I see a slight contradiction and I am just
again trying to find out. . .you where saying that you have a
regulation against. staying on the boat for any extended period
and yet now I hear two or three people do that.
Everyone talking at once.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Do you understand the concern though, if
thirty people are living in their boats than you have cesspools.
.and pumpouts. , That is a critical issue and that is why I am.
trying to get .to, if you had something on your regulations that
said you know you are not allowed to stay longer-,...than a week.
That is a different story. That is what I got from the first
comment but than it doesn1t seem like that is the case.
LARRY WILLIAMS: I provide some information from the Suffolk
County Water Department on how to calculate water usage at a
marina. We do have two homes on the premises and .a shower
bathroom facility, men and women. and we do .have one washer
machine. Two houses, one washer machine. That •happens to be in
.a room locked and for use for myself and the marina people. I
can attest to the fact that we are 57% rented last year. If we
just used what Suffolk County calculates to estimate for
construction purposes and didn't have a problem with pools being
pumped or overflown. I am less usage then a normal household,
if you follow their trend.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I understand your trend. The document you
gave us, I believe, -was for a single family occupant.
LARRY WILLIAMS: There is. . .for marinas too. With and without a
. . . . we don't have a .. . .
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I looked at some of those numbers and I
thought they where much larger. Especially with the laundry-mat.
that is figured in.
LARRY WILLIAMS It is a household washer machine.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL:. I understand. But in this book, it says they
treat it as a machine and they give a certain volume for that
water .as a laundry matt. I am not arguing about it. I am just
trying to tell you that that is a number that is much larger
than a single ,family house. My last questions that I had was in
Board of Trustees 3.2 April 28, 1994
terms of the water. I.t has been an. issue. that I have been
involved with. In many of our applications we constantly tell
people to use a non-turf vegetative buffer next to the water.
Do -you have a problem with that. It means you don' t have sod
and you don't have sprinklers.
LARRY WILLIAMS: That is not part of this plan.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes it is. Let me explain. We have done this
a. hundred times. It is not your application. When somebody comes
in to do an application, we look at. the entire application..
They sodded right up to the bulkhead. I am trying to explain.
You might have heard it tonight. We have asked for a twenty foot
vegetative buffer. We asked for a thirty foot. It depends upon
the property. It. "is a very, very regular process for this board
not- to put a heavy watered. and -fertilized plants near the edge
of the water. It is a common practice. My point is, is that a
problem? Do you see that as a hardship?
LARRY WILLIAMS: We are. not doing any landscaping.
PHIL WANAT: We are not changing anything.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I am not saying you. are changing it. I 'am
saying we have the right in the permit process to say that you
are not allowed to have heavy vegetative, fertilized plantings.
MICHAEL BENDER: We have a five foot walkway and then the sod_
starts. If you had a 'house on the water and -somebody said to
you I want to take your backyard lawn out and put in saw grass,
how would you feel?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I am telling you that I have told people to
do that. I have sat in front of this board in the last three
months. and told. five people to do that. That is;..what. I am
telling you. I have sat on. the CAC . for the last eight years
and every application, Bruce' Loucka who is Chairman now will
tell you that I personally put that on every application. That
when ever the CAC sent something to the Trustees, it was
always put a vegetative buffer, non-turf so that all the
nutrients, all that material. does not go into the water. By the
Zoning Board*. . .
LARRY WILLIAMS: Point of information, we do not fertilize, we
mulch.
JOE LARUSO: The Board made a request of us last, year, you may
remember Al, John Bredemeyer himself asked us not to use `
fertilizer and when.we understood the impact of using it and now
we understand leaching of the fertilizer into the ground water
and we. complied 100%. We do not use fertilizer.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I am just "asking if you didn't have any grass
there at all, is that a problem? Then you wouldn't have to water
it.
LARRY WILLIAMS: It would destroy the beauty of the marina.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That is all. That was my question.
LINDA FLETCHER: I just wanted to comment on what John said. You
where asking them about their agreement with the people who rent
their slips. Why haven't they produced one of them.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I don't think it existed.
MS. HUNTINGTON: There was no overnight restraints. I have an
agreement.
'Board of Trustees 33 April 28, 1994
JOE LARUSO: Al, we think we have produced one, but if you
would like one that is certainly not .a problem.
MS. HUNTINGTON I would like to thank the Board for their time
and patients. Good night.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Good night. Do any of the Board members have
any other questions. I think we should wrap this up.
TRUSTEE,- GARRELL: Do you want a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are there any relevant comments to this
application.
Speaker: I would just like to make one point. There is some
confusion on the grass. You are' proposing is the north end
which hasn't been renovated to be renovated at this point.
Board and CHM owners: No.
JOE LARUSO-: The south side of the south basin. We want to
continue with what is on north side of the south basin.
Speaker: O.K. The .grass and siding look beautiful, you did a
good job. You are not going to but grass on the other side?
JOE LARUSO: No.
Speaker: I think there was some confusion here about that.
MICHAEL BENDER: . The north side of the remaining. The natural..
side is staying, there is no grass there.
DAVID WALSH: Where the driveway is, where you pull in and park
your cars, what is going to be there gravel?
JOE LARUSO: Gravel.
DAVID WALSH: Is there a reason why the lights -have to stay on
all night? Is it the insurance.
LARRY WILLIAMS: It is the insurance company. If I maintain
those hours, it keeps the insurance cost down.: The electric
rates go up. There. is not .intension of doing anything on the
north side.
, Speaker: You fixed up the other part of the marina very nice..
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I am going to ask for. motion to close .the
public hearing.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL:. So made.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE'. KRUPSKI: I am going to make_ a motion of these based an
our review of the file. This is a sample resolution that is .
drawn up and we will add to it as we go a long. The CAC
recommends approval of the project provided the total number of
slips does not exceed the number of any previously approved
slips.
WHEREAS, NYSDEC previously assumed Lead Agency in this matter
and
WHEREAS, all other required permits have been obtained; and
WHEREAS, the Trustees have .viewed and are, familiar with .the
.premises in question and the application; and
WHEREAS, a public hearing on the proposed project was held on
April 28, 1994 and the Trustees have considered all comments
raised at the public hearing and in. connection with application;
and
WHEREAS, the proposed project complies with the standards set .
forth in 97-28 of the Town Code; NOW BE IT
RESOLVED, that the action is hereby approved subject to the
following conditions:
Board of Trustees 34 April 28, 1994
1. Installation of a pump-out facility to collect and
properly dispose of vessel sewage;
2. Erection of a 2' X 3 ' sign prominently displayed at
the fuel dock which reads, -'KEEP OUR WATERS CLEAN, PLEASE
MAKE USE OF THE PUMP-OUT FACILITY PROVIDED FOR THE
COLLECTION OF VESSEL SEWAGE. THE MANAGEMENT.
3. The applicant shall maintain a monthly log of
pump-outs specifying the following: Name of vessel, vessel
registration, date, gallons collected and means of
disposal. The applicant shall submit a copy of the log to
the Trustees annually after the boating season by December
31.
4. The applicant shall notify the Trustees upon
completion of said project.
5. The applicant shal.l .remit to the Trustees a fee of
$427.50 covering -the processing costs and two future field
inspections for permit compliance.
6. The applicant shall submit to a dye test at the
Trustees discretion and the Suffolk County Health
Departments convenience this summer and annually.
7. There shall be no expansion of turf areas or water
usage.
8.. "Y" valves be sealed for overnight subject to Bay
Constables inspection.
Signage for users to use water sparingly shall be posted
around the yard.
10. A copy of the bill of sale for the clay_ pellets and
proof of installation of same.
TRUSTEES talked about gray water discharge. It was decided that
it cannot be controlled because there is no regulation.
TRUSTEE GARRELt: Second.. ALL AYES.
V. ASSESSMENTSJENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATIONS:
4. DENNIS KEDJIERSKI request a permit to reconstruct an
existing single family dwelling adding a second floor and a 7'
front porch, gravel driveway. Construct a 27' X 20' two-car
garage on the existing concrete parking area and in addition,
remove approximately 2,000 .sq.ft. of concrete parking area from
in front of the house. Also remove a small, concrete block
smoke house and shed. Remove approx. 1,500 sq.ft. of concrete
patio and two concrete ramps from the rear and sides of the
house .as per the drawing, and replace it with a 12' X 20' timber
deck and stair.s.. attached to the rear of the house. Replace the
solid filled.. timber pier with an open piling pier. Construct a
6' X 401 floating dock (with a 5' X 10' extension for a gangway)
on four pilings at the end of the existing pier. Install water
and electric service to the dock. Located Sage Blvd. ,
Arshamomaque, Southold. #53-5-12.2.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE'
GARRELL to grant a negative declaration. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 35 April 28, 1994
1. J.M.O.. Consulting on behalf of ROBERT CALHOUN to
construct a swimming pool, terrace, stairs, decking and pool
backwash' from existing tidal wetlands line. To install a
sanitary system. as per S.C.D.H.S. standards at a point greater
than 125' from existing tidal wetlands. line. To truck in
approx. 200 c.y. of clean fill for regrading and the
installation of stone parking areas on what is now a dirt
parking area approx.. 40' from existing tidal wetlands line.
Proposed parking area shall be in the same foot print as
existing parking area. Existing catch basin shall be utilized
or reconstructed. Entire limits of construction wall be
enveloped by a continuous line of staked hay bales which shall
be installed prior to and maintained during all periods of
construction activity. All work in accordance with plans
prepared by Chandler Palmer and King dated 12/14/93. Located
East End Road, Fishers. Island. #3-2-2.
The Board request .a' new (general) .description, as per plans
submitted. No action will be taken until a full coordination is
done.
2. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of THOMAS W. RUSSELL,JR. to
reconstruct/upgrade an existing rock revetment by installing a
65' X 18' rock slope. 2 to 4 ton boulders shall be utilized by
Placing them .on filter fabric and a 1' layer of rock chips
(4"-611 tailings) and a 1 1./2:1 slope will be created. No grout
of any type will be used and any disturbed areas will be filled
with loam and seeded. Located Fox Ave. , Fishers Island. 6-1-2. .
No action will be taken until a full coordination can be done.
3. Docko, Inc. on behalf of KATHERINE HALE reconstruct 55+/-
L.F. of 61 . wide. fixed wood dock replacing stone filled wood
' cribs with driven piles for support and maintain a 16' X 10'
floating dock including support piles. Located Sterling Street,
Fishers Island. #10-9-6.
No assessment necessary on type II, set public hearing for next
meeting.
5. John Geidemann on behalf of SANDFORD FRIEMAN to
extend existing dock 100' also permit for existing beach house
and. deck that was built in the 1950's as per survey dated as
received February 7, 1994. Located Old Harbor Road, New
Suffolk. #117-3-8.4.
No assessment necessary on type II, set public hearing for next
meeting.
VI . RESOLUTIONS:
1. Board to set public hearings for the May 26, 1994 regular
meeting for. those applications that have received a negative
declaration and the following applications that are Type II
actions. ,
a. John & Mary Murphy 43-5-4 & 18
b. Robert Garben 70-4-5
" - Board of Trustees 36 April 28, 1994
C. Daniel Maggio 86-2-11
d. John & Mary Kelly 103-3-15 _
e. Thomas Kelly 111-5-1
f.' Thomas & Roby Gluckman 111-5-2
g. Francis Perrone 111-1-21
h. Richard & Pamela Frerking '115-12-9
i. Old Cove Yacht Club 117-5-13,14.1,14.2
A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to set the above for public hearings.
2.. DR. NORA HICKEY requests permission to transfer dock
permit and rights to use a ground stake and pulley-line (permit
#412) for mooring from Frank Pileski to her. Located Rochelle
Place at James Creek. House located 345 Bartley Road,
Mattituck. #144-3-2.5.
A motion- was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to deny permit #1332 to be transferred based on ROW is
Town owned and policy is that no- docks on Town owned ROWs.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
GARRELL to approve the transfer of permit #412 (stake and
pulley) to Dr. Hickey. ALL AYES...
3. CHARLES E. FRASER requests A grandfather permit for a
100' existing bulkhead built prior to 1939. Reconstructed
approx. 1.958 by Rambo. . Jetty also built approx. 1969.
Located. 7325 Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue. South of Bridge
Lane.. 118-4-1.
A motion was made TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and secondedby TRUSTEE
WENCZEL to approve grandfather application. ALL AYES.
4. EDWARD DEUTSCH requests a refund of permit fees ($368.00)
for 213 l.f. of •timber retaining wall, a 4' X 16 ' hinged ramp
and a 6' X 20' float. Located Briar Lane, Southold. #81-1-16.1.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded .by TRUSTEE
WENCZEL to grant the refund and there by cancelling the permit
for a dock. ALL AYES..
VII. MOORINGS:
1. John Kowalski requests a mooring in Mattituck Creek for a
21' outboard with a 1001b mushroom. Access: Knollwood Lane.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE
HOLZAPFEL to grant approval.. ALL AYES.
2. Gayle Marriner-Smith request a mooring in Town Creek for
a 23 ' sail boat with two 1001b mushrooms (fore & Aft) . Access
Founders Landing.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
HOLZAPFEL to grant approval subject to ha Bay CuIrUtabTUS
approval.. ALL AYES. RECEIVED _AND FILED BY
Meeting adjourned 11:50 P.M. THE �C4�",.�_, . ,_D D-li IN CLERK
loard
sect ully submitted D1��TEg1319' ;" ti `%Do
of Trustees
Town Clerk, `!'own cf ,�oix�i.old