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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-06/27/1996 Ir Albert J. Krupski, President ���� Town Hall John Holzapfel, Vice President o 53095 Main Road Jim King y r ?? P.O. Box 1179 ®Martin H. Garrell �� Southold, New York 11971 � Peter Wenzel Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD `nTNU'T'ES DUNE 27 ; 1996 PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, Jr, President John Holzapfel, Vice-President Jim King, Trustee Martin Garrell, Trustee Peter Wenczel, Trustee Diane Herbert, Clerk CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Wed. July 31, 1996 at 7 p.m. WORKSESSION: 6: 00 p.m. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wed. July 24, 1996 at 12 noon APPROVE MINUTES: Approve minutes of May 22, 1996 Regular Meeting. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES I . MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for May 1996: A check in the amount of $4,320.29 has been forwarded to the Supervisor' s Offic.e for the General Fund. II . PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk' s Bulletin Board for review. III . AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: 1 . MICHAEL BONTJE requests an° Amendment to Permit #4496 to add a 3 ' X 12' floating extension to the 16 ' fixed return on the "J" with 2 pilings. Located: Island View Lane, Greenport. SCTM 457-2-23 TRUSTEE GARRELL moved to approve the Amendment, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES Hoard of Trustees 2 June 27, 1996 2. EDWIN BERNHARDT requests an Amendment to Permit #2011 to i add 4' X 18' of dock to existing dock, ramp, & float, totalling 75 ' as per revised drawing dated June 6, 1996. Located: 500 Koke Drive, Southold. SCTM. #87-5-4 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Amendment, . TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES 3 . Richard Witzke on behalf of SILVANA CADEDDU requests an Amendment. to Permit #4343 to install a 15' X 23 ' deck on top of existing ramp. Located: 1380 Wiggins Lane, East Marion. SCTM #35-5-23 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Amendment, TRUSTEE. KING seconded. ALL AYES 4. Proper-T Services on behalf of. VIVIEN SOO requests a 90 day extension for payment to Permit, #4558 for a dock, ramp and float. Located: 265 Cedar Point Drive East, Southold. SCTM *90-3-9 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the extension, trustee Holzapfel seconded. ALL AYES 5 . JONATHAN RARIDON requests a Transfer to Permit #4392 from Lisa Reale to construct house, deck, etc. as per description in permit dated 12/22/94. Located: Crescent Ave. , Fishers Island. SCTM #6-6-20. 5 TRUSTEE KING moved to approve the Transfer, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 6 . J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of CHRISTOPHER DOROSKI requests a Transfer of Permit #2133 from George Hess and an Amendment to the permit to allow for the installation of a 3 ' X 8 ' ramp and a 6 ' X 20 ' float with 3 piles to existing dock. Located: 650 Riley Ave. , Mattituck: . SCTM #143-5-13 .1 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Transfer, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Amendment with condition that new drawing and description be submitted and that applicant remove debris from area, TRUSTEE GARItFL . seconded. ALL AYES 7. JAMES KING requests an Amendment to Permit #283 to include a 3 1/2 ' X 20' ramp to the existing 6' X 60 ' float on the northwest side of the existing dock. Ramp to be suspended from a platform on the fixed dock. Located: 220 East Mill Road, Mattituck. SCTM #106-4-6 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the Amendment, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 8. Doroski Nursery Inc. , on behalf of ANGEL SHORES requests a Waiver to clear the under brush, vines, bramble bushes and dead debris from park area. Located: Bayview Road., Southold. SCTM #88-6-4, 5 & 13 .1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved. to approve the Waiver as per Planning Board' s recommendation, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES Board of Trustees 3 June 27, 1996 Q . MICHAEL SLADE requests an Amendment to Permit #4440 to construct approx. 12 ' X 135 ' to 20 ' wide rock revetment instead of bulkhead to tie into two existing bulkheads as per DEC requirement and dredge area around docks to depth of from 4' below MLW to 7 ' to MLW yielding approx. 350 c.y. of spoil and a 10 year maintenance period as necessary. Located: 1435 West Road, Cutchogue. SCTM #110-7-26 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Amendment with condition that excess spoil be given to the Highway Dept. , TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES 10 . En-Consultants Inc. , on behalf of JOHN LA FORCE requests an Amendment to Permit #4581 to construct a 4 ' X 95' fixed walk instead of 31 . Located: 8.55 Home Pike, Mattituck. SCTM #113-9-16 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Amendment, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES 11. ARTHUR TORELL requests a second and last one year extension' to Permit #4165 to construct a one family dwelling. Located: 365 Westwood Lane, Greenport. SCTM #33-2-10 & 11 TRUSTEE KING moved to approve the last extension, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL moved to go off Regular Meeting and onto the Public hearings, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES VI . PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD.. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENCE CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF: FIVE ( 5) MINUTES OR LESS, IF' POSSIBLE 1. - In the matter of Henry E. Raynor on behalf of MICHAEL RAYNOR requests a Wetland Permit to remove an existing dock . and replace with 125' of bulkhead to tie into neighbors existing bulkhead and backfill with 450 c.y. of fill to stabilize. Located: 890 Old Harbor Road, 240 ' west of ROW, New Suffolk. SCTM #117-5-22 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : This. application will be tabled until we can take another look at it. We talked about it during. the Worksession. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES 2 . - In the matter of PAULETTA B. GURFEIN requests a Wetland Permit to build stairs from top of bluff to bottom. Located: 2800 Dignan' s Road, approx. 3 , 067 ' northwest of Oregon Road, LILCO pole #25 & 26, .Cutchogue. SCTM #83-2-13 .5 Board of Trustees 4 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? Anyone here who would like to speak against the application? ALLAN CONNELL: Just a clarification on our comments. We recommended approval provided there be 3 ' wide and 3' off the bluff surface. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It was -kind of hard to see what the. bluff looked like from over the edge. Did anyone go onto the beach? ALLAN CONNELL: Bob. Keith was the one that looked at this. one and he felt that it was OK. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What does the Board think? As far as the width? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The width is no problem, it' s the 3 ' high. You want to protect the vegetation underneath. That' s the only concern the CAC has. MR. CONNELL: Right. Protect the vegetation on the bluff and make sure the stairs are high enough. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? Motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE GARRELL.: Second. ALL AYES. . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: ITll make a motion we approve the application, with the addition that the stairs be 3 ' above the bluff. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES 3 . - In the matter of MARCUS. & JOANN BRYAN requests a Wetland & Coastal Erosion Permit to construct 90 l.f. of timber bulkhead along tow of bluff with 15' return and backfill 10' behind bulkhead with 125 c.y. of clean sand trucked in from upland source. Located: 155 Glen Court, Cutchogue.. SCTM 183-1-2 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We will do these two public hearing together because they're continuous parcels and they are of identical construction: Anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the applicant? DIANNE LE VIERRER: I am representing the Bryans' . This is pretty much the same case we discussed with Ciaputa and Arcas. The retaining wall will serve to protect the toe of the bluff and as far as affecting the beach, in front of the retaining wall, there are other retaining walls to the east of this parcel. The beach appears to be unaffected by its presence and in an effort to contain this shore we' ll let it go at that . and if you have any questions I will answer them. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Do these link up with people on either side or. . . DIANNE: No. There' s a discrepancy with someone who owns, I believe stairs to the east of their property and they' re not in accordance with the Bryan' s and the bulkheading. However, beyond that parcel that that person owns there is bulkheading. TRUSTEE GARRELL: How steep. . . .that' s pretty steep. DIANNE: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : This. doesn.'t call for any stone armoring. I think we discussed that on the site that that ends at the return Board of Trustees 5. June 27, 1996 and should be armored to protect the neighbors on either side. Any other comment, either in favor or against the application.? ALLAN CONNELL: I would have to disagree. This application does not even come close to being like the Arcas because it is actively eroding and the CAC see a need when a property is in danger of supporting a bulkhead, and this is a case where a bulkheading isn' t necessary. The last application., we didn' t feel bulkheading was necessary because it was not actively eroding. We don't want to come off as against bulkheading. We' re not against bulkheading when it' s necessary, but we felt in this case it wasn't. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Tell you a little secrete Al, when we first took a look at Ciaputa and the ones on either side, we had our doubts. It was only after we got Jay Tansky down and we talked really in detail. Some people from the State and the DEC that we kind of. . . .we went around the other way. At least that' s what I did. You just have to keep an open mind and rethink some of these things. I agree, some of these things you look at them at first shot and you make a different call but then up reconsider. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any one else like to comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE. GARRELL: I' ll make the motion to approve the application 'of the Bryan' s with stipulation that. .the returns be armored with stone. TRUSTEE KING: Second. ALL AYES 4 . - In the matter of MARCUS & JOANN BRYAN request a Wetland & Coastal Erosion Permit to construct 89 l.f . of timber bulkhead along tow of bluff with a 15 ' return and backfill 10 ' behind bulkhead with 125 c.y. of clean. sand to be trucked in from an upland source. Located: 255 Glen Court, Cutchogue. SCTM #83-1-3 5 . - In the matter of Patricia Moore on behalf of CRESCENT BEACH CONDOMINIUM ASSOC. requests a Wetland Permit to add 68 ' of fixed dock to existing dock with 7 piles, a 4' X 48' "T" , a 3 ' X 10' ramp and a 6 ' X 20' float. Located: off Maple Lane, Orient Harbor, Greenport. SCTM #38-1-1-22 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We' ll open the hearing but I 'd like to recess this until the last Board member is here because he' s bringing some information on some eel grass studies and I want to include everything in this. So I ' ll make a motion to recess this public hearing until we have our final Board member. TRUSTEE KING: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : We' ll take comments in favor. PAT MOORE: I'd just like to start by saying- that this property. . . .I think most of you were there at the inspections and at the last meeting 'in whether this should be an Amendment or a Permit. This property started out as a motel in late 1955 and in 1970 ' s was converted to condominiums, and has been used as such every since that time. Seven slips on the existing Board of Trustees 6 June 27, 1996 dock, all structures that are there presently have obtained permits over the years. In March of 1989 they got a permit and again in. July 1989 they included the slips. The condominium consists of 21 condominium units and they had originally proposed 14 additional slips.. They have 7 presently, and they were asking for 14. The DEC recommended against. the 7 on the easterly side because of the conflicts with the adjacent parcel as well as possible storm damage. . They have reduced. their request to 7 additional. slips for a total of 14. So they recognized that right off the bat there. are going to be some members of the condominium who aren.' t going to have the. benefit of BOAT slips. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Were in the documents, drawing up the whole. condominium., were each owner promised a dock? Was that part of . . . . . PAT. Of the original prospective? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right. PAT: I don' t know. What has happened over time is when the dock was built they, my understanding is that the way it' s been working is, the 7 slips they have a lottery system of those people, So that they all essentially been fighting over the same slips. There was no guarantee. The slips that are there shave shoaled over. They have always been shallow slips to start, and small.. So that the size of the boat essentially, I think the biggest boat is 20' . The people in this condo are not, they don' t have the large 40' vessels that they're trying to dock there. They have very small run-abouts essentially - and family type boats. I'm just kind of paraphrasing my letter in case you weren't able. to read it along the way. The application that' s been submitted. is consistent with other docks that were permitted in the area.. You have Cleaves Point which was just completed and it' s based on a permit for 6' X 245 ' fixed pier with a 6' X 110' outer "T" and a 6' X 100' series of floats. That's what Cleaves Point has to the east of them. Then comes the Fakaris. property which was of great concern to us because they're at the crescent and actually impinge on our water front. However, the DEC, the Army Corps, and the Trustees saw fit to grant them a permit and they have 370' of dock that was approved maybe two or three years ago. So, in line with all of the permitted structures that are- presently there, our application is actually less than what is currently on the adjacent. parcel. I have with me this evening Mr. & Mrs. Regina. Mr. Regina is the President of the Condominium Association. That' s why when you asked those questions I referred to him. I also have the pleasure of Eileen Regina who has a Masters in Science in Environmental Education. And has actually published a teachers guide to environmental center. When she told me of her credentials I said, "wonderful because I remembered at the inspection, Mr. Wenzel had mentioned eel grass. And when you mentioned it today, I said, "oh, well I'm so glad your present" . Because it' s one of the things that I wanted her to speak to the Board about as far as the existing conditions faced in there for the past 30 years, and. maybe f1J Board of Trustees 7;_ June 27, 1996 longer. She will be able to answer any questions that you might have in respect to environmental conditions at that site. MRS. REGINA: The point that I thought it was important to make is this area has been heavily used. by people over the past 40 years. Since 1955 since it was built. The swim area which is adjacent to our dock is heavily used at all. times. Probably the last few children have been pulled out within the last few minutes.. It' s constantly being subjected to feet and recreational clamming and people jumping in and canon balling off our dock. The point that I'm making is that this is not a pristine marsh area.. It' s not a nesting area that you would say this- should remain untouched.. Because it certainly has been benignly used over the years and certainly been enjoyed by people, but it certainly not an untouched area. There is eel grass growing in spite of all the activity that goes on within our swim area. It seems it remains there and it remains growing even with the activity going on. There has not ever any attempt to pull it out but you might say people not understanding that this is a delicate environment, might say, "oh, pull that out. There' s sea weed in. the swim area" .. That certainly has never been the case. And that was the point that I wanted to make. This is a heavily 'people' used area. It' s a real family kind of beach area that goes with the condo. A small, not a big condo. There are a lot of children. There are about 40 offspring of the people who live there and currently using the place. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : Any other comment? CAC: The CAC is very concerned about the length of the dock infringing upon this area, because it is a collective scallop area and I believe Steve Latson pointed it out at the meeting we were having on docks in the Bay. In fact, that when you have a dock that long extending into the Bay it effectively limits a commercial scalloper from going in there because the docks are there . and it takes that area out of production from them. And for that reason number 1 we felt. that we do not it to be infringing upon that productive eel grass area. We would rather see this dock going in an east west configuration and not extend so far out. So that it does not affect potential for harvesting for scallops in that area. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I'd like to know at some point why at this juncture you made the application and not previously and why this hasn' t been done before. PAT: What prompted this application? TRUSTEE GAR.R.EL : Yes.. PAT: The more of the homeowners could use dock space and you would avoid some of the fighting that' s occurred. However, there' s also been a great. deal of shoaling in the area and what used to be the 7 slips that' s what allowed for used to be about 4 feet and shoaled over and really the first 3 slips have 1 1/2' of depth.. It' s very, very shallow in that area. The first 7 slips are primarily used by very small boats, canoes. That' s where they dock.. Board of Trustees 8 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Excuse me. I was down there the other day and there' s run-abouts, 151 , 161 , and 17 ' run-abouts in those slips. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The way he said that, there' s a direct conflict there. PAT: Are you talking about the. first 3 slips because there are 7 . TRUSTEE WENCZEL: . Well there' s small run-abouts in those - slips, yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So, which is it though? Are there run-abouts in those slips? PAT: I don' t know. You go down there. MR. REGINA: I would like to, speak that the biggest we have on. the premises is an 18 1/2' Grady White. When they're in the slips 1, 2 & 3 at low tide the boats are actually touching the. sand. And we do put. . . . .we have canoes, we have row boats, we put them in the slips and even they, at low tide or full moon, are touching the bottom. According to the Baymen we love the Baymen. We welcome them. I 'm the president and every owner there when he see a Baymen comes in and ask how they fish and clam in front of our place we welcome them, we give them drinks. . . . . . .I have .to say this, when people chase them, we welcome them to come in. We give them the room. We bow to them. I' ll be honest to them. So when you say that we try to . block a Bayman, it really bothers me. Because we really care about our Long Island and the people who fish it and live here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But, what about the run-abouts. Are there run-abouts in the firs.t two slips. - MR. REGINA: Yes, you can fit the run-about but it won't. . . .they won' t stay there at low tide. You have a problem. They scrape -:bottom. 'TRUSTEE WENCZEL: The question was, are they in the slip now. MR. REGINA: ' I don't know. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I was there yesterday, or the day before. PAT: I was told that the first three slips are very shallow and it does create a problem for a small craft. It may be that it was there, and for a. short period of time that it could stay there during a high tide or close to high tide. But I would believe that based on the testimony that if the boat were to remain there throughout the day and evening, it would end up hitting bottom. And that' s one of the problems that they've experienced. MR. REGINA: We had an engineer come in known as John Geideman, a very, very nice gentleman who. lives in the area and John came. in and said, "Patrick those couple of slips you' ll loose in 6 or 7 years' . And he said, "if you have a storm like 1992 you' ll loose in 6 or 7 hours" . TRUSTEE GARRELL.: Is. there any possibility, if there is a problem with this, of. reconfiguring the docks as you proposed.. Can you give it some thought to possible re-configuration? PAT: Mr. Geideman is, he' s not here. Mr. Tuttle is the engineer who is involved as well. I don't know to what extent that there' s been discussion. . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Who' s the applicant? 1 r� Board of Trustees 91 June 27 , 1996 PAT: Crescent Beach. Your asking whether configuration dates have to reply .on the expertise of their engineers. to see whether or not it' s possible to re-configure this so it can be accomplished. We' re all layman. . . . . . .I certainly wouldn't be qualified to answer that and I don' t think you would be comfortable wither. I just have to remind. the Board that. you've got two applications that you recently approved that are 50 ' longer than. what we are asking for. And some that were- very actively aggressively objected to by the Crescent Beach Assoc. because it affected our ability to design our dock and not be affected by theirs. It seems somewhat unfair to be putting this kind of burden on my applicant where you. have two that have gone through the process and relatively uncomplicated procedures. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which burden, first of: all? PAT: As far as re-configuration and going through a lengthy discussion. The other applications I believe were Amendments to the permit? I believe they were. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Which ones were they? PAT: You 'have Cleaves Point and Fakaris. I know Fakaris we dealt with and objected .to and nobody. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : You thought it was too long. PAT: And not so much that but it infringed on our beach front. They have 50' of beach front and put in a 370' dock. We have 200 ' of beach front and their encroaches over our space. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What do you mean 'your space' . PAT: Where you have the frontage, there' s 200 ' of frontage. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But that' s all State property. That' s public property, in front. PAT: No, we have riparian rights over that 2001 . Their dock goes like this, it crosses over what would be a parallel line from our property line. If you take a look at. . . . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I just want a clarification, so we get this straight. The riparian right thing. PAT: You. . . . . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: What she' s saying is that the dock comes this way, in front of their property. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, but it' s not their. . . . . .but it' s State waters. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: In front of their. . . .imaginary line. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But you don't own as far as you can see, I don' t think. I just want to get this. . . .when you say our riparian rights, you mean yours exclusively? PAT: Of course not. But our ability to expand and their ability to expand is all predicated and. the Army Corps has you considered the property limits that you are extending. So that they looked at the extension and they look at the dimensions of the property. Fakaris went beyond their dimensions and. into our imaginary line that goes straight out. You understand that? MR. REGINA: It' s a crescent. Fakaris' s dock is this way, ( indicating) ours. is this way. It' s incredible how. . . . .it' s blocking us. It' s actually coming on us. And. what I feel is that if he extends this dock, we are going to be blocked in. We' ll actually blocked. You have to see it to believe it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : We've been out there many times. Board of Trustees 10 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE GARRELL: I can't remember myself when we approved those, sitting on the Board to approve them. PAT: Mr. Bredemeyer was. . . . . TRUSTEE GARRELL: So it was a. different Board except for Albert. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: It was quite a while ago. PAT: No, it' s not that long ago. It was approved. Oct. 1995 and they just finished, they completed their structures months. ago. They were finishing up when we. were out there. Fakaris. was in. 1992. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I want to point out that around the dock on either side is as they pointed out in the 'area that the dock is to be expanded in there is eel. grass. bed. Some of it is patchy and some of it is fairly luxuriant. The further to the west that you go in that cove, the dock on the end. . . . .what was the name of the dock on the end? PAT: Cleaves Point. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Number 1. When you get down by Cleaves Point, the eel grass is not particularly thick. In fact, where that particular dock is is maybe the eastward limit of the eel grass bed, as you go to the west along that shore to where your dock is down towards the entrance to Gull Pond, in fact, all away to the breakwater is a real nice eel grass bed. Number 2. I think everybody realizes and it certainly has been demonstrated by the Brown Tide studies and the Peconic Estuary Programs work that eel grass have been reduced in recent years. A lot of it' s been laid to the fact that we've had all this Brown Tide that limit the light penetration and whatnot. But there may be other factors and certainly in the amount of time that I've been on the water, the eel grass beds probably have been reduced as much as 50% over all. Not 50% everywhere, but I think I could safely say 50% over all. It' s very clear when you go down on those docks, and particularly on your dock, that either the boat usage of the dock or the structure itself has affected the eel grass abundance around the dock. I pointed that out to the Board that if you looked where the boats actually are docked there and where the boat slips are there is no or little grass. Once you get beyond the outer poles, the eel grass starts. I don't know why that is exactly. There are some places where eel grass seems to grow fairly well near boats but it doesn't look like it' s doing too well there. Number 4. This particular area is a viable shellfish bed. I have caught scallops there, I list lots and lots of other people that have. Unfortunately we don' t have any scallops this year. within the last year or two, I have actually scalloped there and been so close to the dock I bumped .into it. Because that' s where the scallops were. When you put a permanent structure of any type, even a pole. . . . . .and I hate to tell you guys this but nobody is going scalloping in Cleaves Point anymore. Take a look at that structure. Nobody is going in there anymore. Even in small boats the way they have that. configuration with all those poles. When a dock like Crescent. Cove is proposing it extended., they' re not gonna. be scalloping there either. At least with dredges and small boats. That' s a fact. There is also, and these folks pointed out there' s also a Board of Trustees 11 June 27, 1996 viable clam fishing there. I know there' s guys who dig there. There dense sets of clams all along from the Breakwater to Orient in the last couple of years and those are some of the only areas this time of year. All our creeks are essentially shut down. There's a couple that are open. The fellows who depend on clams for a living are forced now to work out in the Bay and they end up working on the edges of these grass. beds wadding out, raking or what ever, and this. is a viable area. Obviously you could clam. a little easier than you can scallop in an area like that but the more boats you put in this cove and this area the more likely it is to be closed. We all know the DEC will close an. area that has a lot of boats in it simply on the suspicion that some of those boats have: a potential to discharge sewage. It doesn't have to be proven. If you have boats in the area, and I know you have small boats in your dock, but if you have boats in the area that have the potential to have a 'head' on it, they will close the area. , That's a fact. Orient Yacht Club is closed most of the year for that very reason. There is no water quality data that says it' s bad, it just simply the possibility that a boat there may discharge that they close it for that reason. Number 5. Where those docks are is public property. That property belongs to all of us. Residence of Southold,: residence of New York State. I firmly believe it is wrong to give public property away when we have so little left. A large portion of the Bay is not public property anymore. There are still fords of oyster leases and private ownership out there. There are large areas that are unused now but are. still privately owned. There' s a growing trend to use some of these oyster leases.. I believe every square inch of public property should be protected for the. public' s use because if we don' t in the near future there won't be any. If we give it all away to private use, then we will no longer have public property. Although you. may think it's kind of radical I don' t agree, and this is my personal opinion, I don' t agree riparian rights grants you the right to exclusive use of the underwater land in front of your property. It grants you the right to ' reach navigable water as I understand it. It seems to me that this public property that I should have just as much right to moor my boat there _or put a dock there as anybody else in the State of New York. That' s my personal opinion. If we allow, and we have, maybe not this Board, we certainly have in the last number of years, allowed this are to become monopolized by the individuals who own those condos there, the rest of us will not be able to use them. that' s a fact. Number 6. I think if these condo projects or whatever, would. like a private marina .than they ought to excavate their private property and build it. Not give away public property. I hate to shoot down one of . your other arguments, but I was there at 10:30 and there was nobody in the water. It was a bright sunny day. There were run-abouts in all those slips. They weren't huge, that.' s correct. but they were floating.. It was 10: 30 in the morning and the tide was about half tide. I pulled right in. In my boat I draw 2 1/2' of water right up to the last slip and I didn' t run aground. I believe that maybe at low water there may Board of Trustees 12 June 27, 1996 have been a foot and a half. That' s probably true. My last point is that I'm not sure that some of the. Board don' t want to hear this but, I 'm gonna say it again, it was a mistake to grant any of those docks in that area. It was a mistake to allow Cleaves Point to install permanent docks there and monopolize it further. And it would be a mistake to take away this piece of public property from the residents of New York State and allow private interest exclusive use. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other Board comment? TRUSTEE GARRELL.: How many more boats would your proposal bring in? Or how many more slips would be avai.lable? Secondly and this is for Pete I suppose, whether a re-configuration would be a solution at all. Would there be a possible re-configuring around the eel grass beds. If there were then the immediate thought be to bring in Geideman or any engineer and see if designing something that would fit. Now whether that could be done I don' t know. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Just .as far as the eel grass goes, the further west you go the thicker it gets, and it' s just about up to the shore there, from what I saw. PAT: It would seem to me that what you stated before was. correct that the eel grass gets denser as you go west, which goes against the recommendation to modify the design. Also you've got the existing. . . .you have a concentrated area right now within 100-200' most of the boats are. going to position themselves. Ih addition you have the swim areas where there is a lot of activity by the families that occupy those units. So it seems to me environmentally better if you were to concentrate .the use in a narrower condensed area. than to try to spread it out along the whole crescent which the suggestion made to reconfiguring. TRUSTEE GARRELL: How many more docks? PAT: Seven. Only seven. we've got seven, very small docks, very small slips, and we want an additional seven. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When did you have the discussion with the State when they discouraged you from using the east side? PAT: I 'm getting this from Mr. Geideman. When he applied to the DEC, and we have the permit from the DEC now, recommended against the slips on the east side and its my understanding because of the storm factor. And I don't know to what extent that they felt the storm damage and the affect of the waves on the boats and so on, they felt that the east was. just not acceptable. They didn't want any slips on the east side. And therefore we Amended our application with the DEC and only provided for on the west side. and therefore reduced the number of additional slips from and additional 14 to only 7. TRUSTEE WENCZEL.: When I was looking at it the other day it really seemed like with all that structure to the east therethat there' s probably a lot of protection on the west side. PAT: The east side. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Yes, the east side. PAT: Mr. Geideman was representing my clients with respect to the DEC and the DEC felt. very strongly about that and again Board of Trustees 13 June 27 . 1996 partly because of the infringement of the adjacent docks that putting the slips on both sides was gonna create a problem. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Did they look at since Cleaves Point completed their monstrosity there? PAT: Well the application was. done simultaneously. . . . TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well the work was finished at Cleaves Point, right? PAT: Yes. they have the DEC permit. TRUSTEE WENCZEL.: But, what I 'm saying is it' s a different place now that Cleaves Point has completed that splash wall under the dock. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: They have splash wall that they put that blocks all the waves.. They put it on the east side of their dock. It becomes almost a breakwater. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What' s being suggested I think is the way your dock stands now all the slips are to the west. 7 slips. couldn' t you create 7 slips, granted the first slip isn' t gonna have a lot of water, 7 slips to the east side directly opposite to those 7 slips. MR. REGINA. That' s the swim area where all the children swim. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Could you change the swim area? MR. REGINA: No, we don' t own it. there' s no where else to go. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'd like to work with you on this. And obviously this is not a straight forward application. PAT: I 'd like to address the property rights issues. We're dealing with environmental factors and I think I have testimony on the record from someone who lives there but is also has expertise in the field. That that area is not a pristine area that. . . .in relation to the type of environmental concerns that you obviously are concerned with and have to. address. This isarea is a heavily used area. It is not pristine. The eel grass that you' re concerned with has been able to thrive, even despite the activity. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don' t want to get into what is pristine. , because if its eel grass habitat it means that' s where the eel grass wants to go. there' s not definition in the code of what pristine is. Your saying it' s not pristine. The Bay is affected by mea' s activity for the last 400 hears, se'r.iously for the last 50. So when you want to say what' s pristine, tell me what area in the Bay you would consider is pristine, and we would use that as a bench mark. PAT: Let me suggest something. There' s a balancing test that we apply here at all times. I know that this applies it. There' s a balancing test between my clients, the property owners. that pay taxes on their property and have a certain. right to use their property and of course has to certain extent described. the riparian right. The rights to use the property, the water front property that they own. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That they own. The water and. property that they own. Absolutely. PAT: I won' t get into the court. . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well you could. Maybe you should. Because I don' t understand the way your going with this. If they own the property, they definitely have property rights. It' s my Board of 'Trustees 14 June 27, 1996 opinion, and this is why I asked you, because there are areas., and you've gotten into the area of riparian rights, and we own it. I was wondering what you meant by "we" before, because some areas of the Bay, as Peter said, are privately owned or privately leased. And if this is the case then we look at it differently because the client would have private property rights. Now if this is State water. It' s public property. And then it' s different. Everyone in the State has the right to use that property as opposed to private property. PAT: Again there' s a balancing test. And the right for clammers to come clam as for fishermen to use the property. It' s balanced with the rights of the property owners to put in a ' very modest size dock compared. to the other docks that have been approved in the. very short time frame. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I 'd just like to point out that we all pay taxes and it belongs to all of us. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I 'm beginning to think that there' s a middle way out of this. And that is we have a series of working Osessions with DEC presumably coming down. I would suggest that we get hold of Mr. Geideman. We' ll. get together and see if there' s a way to re-configure that in accord with what' s there right now and accord with the changes that have been made with Cleaves Point with the splash wall.. And see if something can be worked out for 7 slips. It sounds like it should be possible to try something to shoehorn something in there and do it in satisfactory way. At least it worth an attempt. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because what you said, "mistakes have been made in the past in the east" . And we really don' t want the Board to repeat those mistakes.. PAT: I 've said that. But where we' re talking about at Cleaves Point only two months. . . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : But you can' t have it both ways. You can' t say you want like they- had it, but it' s a mistake. PAT: No, but what we' re saying is that don' t. . . . let' s all of us play by the same rules. The concern that we had is that Fakaris went by his own rules and that was a different Board obviously, but they did play by his own rules and got everything he wanted by just barreling right through. Cleaves Point went through the process, they got an extension of their dock which is larger than the application we have pending, and it' s within 100 ' of our dock. The DEC has given us approval for the entire project, and here we are and 4 months have gone by and. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well you changed the application also. PAT: No. The direction that Mr. Geideman, I wasn' t involved then, was told to proceed was as an Amendment to the permit. That' s what he did and ultimately after our inspection we agreed. fine, we' ll come in as a public. hearing and put all the information on record and have a public hearing. So we were hoping to complete this product within a reasonable time.. TRUSTEE GARRELL: What was Mr. Geideman' s amendment? PAT: It was this application. It was originally considered that because there were only 7 additional slips as an Amendment. ,MR. REGINA: I fished and clammed this area since 1964. I have lived every inch of that water. When you say the eel grass is Board of Trustees 15 June 27, 1996 thicker where we are than in front of Cleaves Point or in front Fakaris' s, I have to totally disagree with that. . You mean from me to you is Fakaris' s dock., a little further, 50' away, and the eel grass lives it with 40 children around and we' re hurting the eel grass. We wouldn' t hurt anything in the environmental. I am totally for the environment.. We are a small place, we respect, we clean the beach. we welcome anybody, we take care of the environment. When you tell me that I've been since 1964, fishing, clamming, scalloping there. and to say that there' s 50' to 60 ' separates between flourishing eel grass. and no eel grass, that I tend to differ with that gentlemen.. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: That' s. not what I said. Let me define what. I said. MR. REGINA: Under the boats there has never been eel grass' in that area. The twisting sand from the storm, when you just looked at it. . . .from the storm as 1992 pushed tremendous amounts of sand in that area. we used to have 3 ' under the deck house and if you clammed there and scalloped there you would notice it that the sand has built up almost, say 2 1/2' almost 3 ' in height that covered all that area. TRUSTEEWENCZEL: Behind the dock, I know, where the boat slips are because the structure is there. MR. REGINA: Yes. No, no, no. Not so. It built up there. So when you tell me this wear from the environment and Cleaves Point didn' t hurt the environment, or Fakaris didn't, and I'm not saying two rights make a wrong, or whatever, you issued those permits, and we' re asking to satisfy. . . .We have 11 or 12 boats, we only have 7 slips, and we keep small boats. I cannot see where we hurting the environment and these conglomerate can get away with having owning. 100 ' of beach front and having 300 odd feet of dock is beyond my imagination. And Cleaves Point. . . .built a marina in front of their house. And we're asking for a little bit to satisfy the home owners and have small boats put in front of the place and not hurt the environment. And we' ll still welcome you in front of our house when you come there. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Just to clear that up. I was vehemently opposed to Cleaves Point. I votes against it. When I described the eel grass I was not saying that they had no affect on it., I said that the further east you go along that shoreline, the edge gets narrower and the bed gets lets sparse. When you get to the east side of Cleaves Point dock, there is very little eel grass on that edge. I. didn't say they had no affect. Believe me, I was vehemently opposed to having that dock. I virtually a similar speech and I voted against it. So don' t misunderstand-. MR. REGINA: I'm not. We -had the same amount of eel grass as they did. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.: Believe me, Pat, we' re not looking for a. . . . .we'd like to resolve these things: as they come up because we have long agendas. And if it doesn' t get resolved, it' s there again next month. So it' s to no advantage to us. It' s not like we' re trying to string you people along. We' re not. We' re trying to do the right thing. Mistakes have been made in the past on the docks. We'd hate to blindly go along and repeat . 1�0 Board of Trustees 16 June 27 , 1996 those mistakes because then there'd be no sense in having a Board. Could be meet with you, on site; 'and try to work something out? PAT: That would be lovely because we don' t want to go back and forth. If you could get the DEC to come out and. . . . . .I think the important point for the applicant is to get the number of boat slips that he needs and meets the depths that accommodate the condos. TRUSTEE KRUPSKT: I 'm going to make a motion to recess the hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPEEL: Second. ALL AYES 6 . - In the matter of En-Consultants Inc. , on behalf of JOHN LYNCH requests a Wetland Permit to construct 120 l.f. of timber bulkhead. with 2- 8' returns and dredge an area up to 10 ' in front of new bulkhead to a max. depth of 3 ' below ALW. Located: 1020 Glenn Road, Southold. SCTM #78-2-28 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here in favor of the application? DIANNE: I'm here on behalf of Mr. Lynch. He is here, and also with Steve Paulick and they will be happy to discuss the application. I heard from. Diane that he Board. was considering denying the application because they didn' t feel that it was necessary. We brought some photographs indication there is serious erosion on the bank of Mr. Lynch' s property. It' s a serious problem and needs to be corrected. He is here and has supplied some great photographs. I don' t know what time you went to look at the property. I believe it was about 11: OO, am. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : No, it was probably 8: 00 am. DIANNE: Around. high tide, you couldn' t really get a good idea of the situation. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because it was high tide or because it wasn' t high tide. DIANNE: Because it was high tide. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don' t think it was high tide. TRUSTEE GARRELL: What day were we there? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : 19th. This is where we were. DIANNE: Because when I was there it was about high tide and you couldn' t really get a good idea. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No this is low tide, we were there about mid-tide. DIANNE: At low tide you can see, the trees are falling into the creek and the bank is eroding. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is basically what we call. ' cut and fill' operation. And this is something that we haven' t allowed, that. I can remember since the days before Paul. Stoutenberg. Because what this does is destroy inter tidal marsh which is the productive area of the creek. as far as the marine life. That' s why it hasn' t been allowed in probably 20 years. So this is not something that has just come up in the past five minutes.. DIANNE: Then how do you explain the fact that there was a permit already issued for this property- for a bulkhead for a similar. . . VA Board of Trustees 17 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : I don't know. In 1993? Different Board. Thirteen years ago they saw things differently. STEVE: Where is the -marsh in some of these photographs? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were there. STEVE: I don' t see any grass there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s all inter tidal area. That' s all productive marine area. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Marsh doesn't need to have grass. STEVE: Then how come the trees. are falling into the creek if there isn' t an erosion problem? There are trees that are in the water. Now what' s Mr. Lynch supposed to do? Is he supposed to let the trees fall into the water? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is a straight forward 'cut and fill' bulkheading operation. Steve have you ever seen one of these done in Southold? STEVE: Yes, when I worked for Pat Karry we did one right down the creek. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Also down the creek I was on the Board then, and we denied one to the east of there, same scenario. STEVE: We did 2001 . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We denied. the application when I was on the Board to complete that into a basin.. Because all it does is sterilize the creek and once you loose your filtering capacity, once you loose your biology in the creek it just becomes a cesspool basically. ALLAN: But you don' t think the bank will keep eroding? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The erosion in this case can be solved in other manners besides cut and fill. operation. STEVE: What if we kept the bulkhead back and maybe plant some beach grass or. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : But in this case where the bank slopes down then your talking about a retaining wall. STEVE: The bank doesn't slope down. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well that' s what I mean. That' s exactly what I mean. It doesn' t slope down. You'd be putting a retaining up on your lawn and that wouldn't solve your erosion problem. STEVE: Ultimately, I've been Mattituck for 25 years on Peconic Bay. We just bought this house in January and I know what happens out there. In Camp Mineola used to be 100 ' out, and then basically the erosion. Part of what we are doing here is that the creek narrows down there. There' s bulkheading across the way and Mr. Torkelson, who signed the consent for me says to me, "every time. a boat goes. by he can see it just eroding on our side because it's set far back with him. So we' re kind of out in the middle there and as that tide comes by it just keeps taking it and taking it. And if I can stabilize it then I think if I have to loose something in the front,. I don' t really care, as long as I can stabilize it so it doesn' t keep going down. There' s some pretty good trees that. have come down and you can see in the pictures there. I got some with 6 and 7 inch girths. Some of them are just the roots. When we got. the house in December I saw the first low tide. I looked under and couldn' t believe what I saw. All the roots are hanging under there. Every time they get a wash, it keeps going. Board of Trustees 18 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : We'd be happy to work with you with a planting plan that will stabilize and re-grading plan but as far as the cut and fill operation I would say that was pretty much out of the question. Have you contacted the DEC? DIANNE: We've applied to the DEC and have gotten a complete application back from them but we haven' t gotten any permits. Because of the SEQRA process. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No we don' t do SEQRA. DIANNE: Oh, you don.' t? MR. LYNCH: I 'm not an attorney and I didn' t come here prepared to do it. on a legal basis. I thought what I saw here was enough loosing the. land and. I heard a lot. . . .Mr. Samuels took a look at it also on my behalf. . TRUSTEE GARRELL: But that' s the Sound. MR. LYNCH: It;s still property, Mr. Garrell. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yes I know, but the Soil Conservation Service and the DEC do things differently. When we have a project like this we generally confer with them and. work out a solution. We think this is a different ' animal' entirely. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Completely different. MR. LYNCH: I know it' s not Grandfathered because he didn' t build it to permit. But by the same token it not that long ago, 13 years, where they saw it. then and thought it needed it. And. they weren' t granting them then, like you say, 20 years. They haven' t been doing it for 20 years and when they saw this one at that time and it' s gotten worse since that time. This one sticks out into the creek. The people across the way in fact are tired of looking at it. The one lady gave me a consensus. She said all we see is that bank eroding all the time and the trees in the water. I 'd like to put that in the record also. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. MR. LYNCH: Torkelson is next door to me and that' s the lady across the way. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, we saw some bulkheading across the way. MR. LYNCH: I thought I had those pictures on the too. So if at least at the narrow area if you stabilize it, that' s all its gonna do fill that creek in right there. You look at those low tide pictures,' it' s very low there. And everybody says it. That' s the lowest part of the creek there and it' s gonna keep getting that way. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think our feeling is we would like to see you try to use a soft solution to this particular problem first. Instead of a hard solution. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI-: It' s not Long Island Sound where you get sever storm. . . . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It' s completely different. . . .and you have 30 ' of water. That' s as wide as it is. TRUSTEE GARRELL: We were there very close within an hour of low tide. So we did get a good look. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But it' s still a 'c:ut and fill' operation. It' s not something that we would approve. MR. LYNCH: Maybe I don't understand. the 'cut and fill' part. MR. SAMUELS: Yeah, I don' t understand ' cut and fill' . Board of Trustees 19 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You cut the bank and dredge out and refill behind it. You cut in front of it and fill behind it and destroy the .whole inter-tidal area. MR. SAMUELS: If in fact. . . .what confuses me here is West Creek is what we call a man made creek. It was dredged years ago. The spoil was put on. the upland. If I were to come to your today with an application to dredge West Creek, essentially is a cut and fill operation, we would not get that permit would we? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well no, you don' t know that. It' s a maintenance dredging permit. MR. SAMUELS: I shouldn't prejudge. I take that back. But what' s happening is the loss of upland and especially fine soils, not sand, is gradually shallowing up that creek at Mr. Lynchs' property, which is a critical area. Beyond .that it' s pretty tough. Mr. Lynch, and I'm not the contractor, but has lived in Southold for 25 years. As a long time resident, he probably, when he looked at the property, believed, and when you obviously see a loss of property, there is indigenous vegetation falling into the creek. It' s not planted stuff, I would assume that Mr. Lynch, and also if I looked. at it as a long time resident of the town, that you could put- a- retaining wall to protect that upland. Now as_ far as the dredging is concerned that' s another question completely. But as far as protecting his vegetation is concerned, I. would think that inherent in what the Trustees stand for. You, on your new applications, you are requiring indigenous.. vegetation be planted. Now if the soft approach. .would work for any of these properties, people would do it. It is inexpensive. I' ll bet you a dollar to a donut Mr. Lynch would rather not spend $100 a foot for a bulkhead., if the soft approach would work. . . . .we have done over 65 soft approaches primarily in East Hampton on 3 Mile Harbor which is a creek and other areas. And the first storm surge you get, you loose everything. Including omoflor with -ten foot rise zones going down into the ground. If the soft approach were good, I wouldn' t have a business. I have sympathy for Mr. Lynch. Beyond that I can't say much more. But it would seem. to me when he looked at that property and having lived in this town on bulkheaded property for years, and I'm sure he' s been up on all the creeks. all these years, he' s- seen bulkheads which are similar. And Al, I've built upland retaining walls above little patents fringes and alterna fringes in the last 20 years. They' re difficult to build and where. you don' t- damage the marsh in front of it. In point of fact, the Board has mitigated marsh plantings in front of them after we have completed it on occasion. I don' t see any way Mr. Lynch can protect his upland in that vegetation with other than a hard structure or rock which would be too big a foot print which would do more damage than it' s worth. Personally I can' t see any alternative to it. And it would prevent to some extent the shallowing of that creek at the bend. TRUSTEE GARRELL: We had less of a problem with putting a hard. structure in there when we did with the dredging. I think that was the connection, between the two was there. Board of Trustees 20 June 27 , 1996 MR. LYNCH: The dredging wasn' t something that I precipitated on. . . .Torkelson next to me, is very low., , I don' t know if you. can see it, his slopes right down to the water. This is so much higher. I 'd have to tear that all out to get that same effect. I don' t want to do that. I like the trees and. I like the way they are. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can' t we meet you out on the site? It would be the best way. MR. LYNCH: Sure. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can we include the DEC in this, because your gonna require their 'blessing' in. this also. It' s better if we' re all there together. MR. LYNCH: As Mr. Samuels said, I 'm an attorney and deal with land development all my- life, and I -took a look at that when I bought it, and saw on my survey that it went out another 15 ' of my land into the creek. I think from the plumber, he did the sub-division. And laid them out and I don' t know whether they dug the creek after they laid them out but I have land that goes 15 ' technically into the creek. I saw that, I saw the old permit and said to myself, I would think I would have to get some kind of. . . . . .I wouldn't condition it. . . .buying it. I love the house, I love the property. It' s my third last house. MR. SAMUELS: How would you feel or consider if this is a retaining wall? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let' s look at it on site. Because that' s too generic to move it landward. CAC comments? This is one where it' s gonna be substantially revised. We' re gonna table the whole thing. No matter what happens we' re not gonna make you re-apply or make you re-submit. SPEAKER: On the property next door to this, there are trees all falling in the water now. Who takes care of them? Does the town? I live north of there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Call the Bay Constable. He' ll come and pull , them out. SPEAKER: He' ll pull. them out? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He should if it' s a navigational hazard, sure. SPEAKER: It' s hanging over the land. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh, its hanging over the water. SPEAKER: I had one tree go in the water in the storm and I pulled it out myself. I'm getting too old for that stuff. When you talk about animal life there. The creek years ago, there was fish in it. Now you can' t even see a killie this year. Because you biggest offender in that area is the Town itself, with the drain that goes in. And the Town has done nothing about it. You got the drain right at the end of the creek going right into it. And nobody does nothing about it. They talk "oh, the Town is gonna do this" . I've been there 16 years, and haven' t seen the Town do a damn thing. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're working on two drainage projects right now. SPEAKER: They' re always working on something else. TRUSTEE GARRELL: The problem is we've all learned something over 20 years and we've all something over 30 years. You live in the Town too, we all live in the Town, we've all got to pay Board of Trustees 21 June 27, 1996 taxes. But if we were to go after every drain project simultaneously that' s need going after, it would cost something. like •3 or 4 million dollars. Now we can' t go after that all in taxes in one shot, so we' re doing it a couple of drains at a time. It may take 20 years, your Grandchildren may live to see it. I hope they do. But the point is we cannot do it all at once. And we' re tackling it. But don' t. hit up on us all at once. SPEAKER: I just laugh at it because I think they do studies. of Goose Creek and they just. ignore. West Creek and they say "that doesn' t go in" . When they made the map I didn't see any of the drains that were along Glen. Road. I didn't see any of the drains. shown on the map. This. man is trying to benefit all the people who live there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're not denying there' s a big problem at all. SPEAKER: Because I lived there a lot of years and I haven' t bulkheaded. but a lot of my property has gone into that creek. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does CAC have any comments? ALLAN CONNELL: We requested that if there are any revised plans that we see them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I' ll make a motion to table the application, TRUS.TEE. HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES 7. - In the matter of STEVEN BELLAVIA requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 121 open pile dock and steps, a 4' X 12' ramp and a 5 ' X 16' floating dock with associated pilings. Located: 380 Lupton Point Road, Mattituck. SCTM #115-11-21 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who. would like to comments on this either fore or against this application? CAC recommends approval. TRUSTEE KING: I went down and took a look and in the back yard you could hardly get through. I went down the adjoining property and it looks alright. The only problem, the neighbor to the east has a dock and a boat and they're gonna have hard time getting around his boat. That' s only a little ditch there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is he the last house there? TRUSTEE KING: I think there is one more house. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Will they be able to get by him? TRUSTEE KING: I don' t think he' s got any more construction than the other one. But they're small boats there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can we cut it back by 2' or something, is that gonna make a difference? TRUSTEE KING: Like I said. it was hard to see,, probably not.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: If this was the. actual canal. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s just a drawing, and not really what is represented there. When we approved the house I think we made a provision for a berm in here so the. water wouldn't flush out into the creek.. TRUSTEE KING:. It' s really narrow and shallow. I don't think it' s a problem. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE GARRELL: So moved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KING: Motion to approve. Board of Trustees 22 June 2.7, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES 8 . - In the matter of Costello Marine on behalf of STANLEY J. CIAPUTA requests a Wetland. & Coastal Erosion Permit to install 200 ' of timber bulkhead to attach to neighbors proposed bulkheads east and west and backf ill with clean fill from approved upland source. Located: 635 Soundview Ave., Southold. SCTM #(50-2-7 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? JOHN COSTELLO: There. is erosion the property, There are pictures which I would like to enter into the record. There is sliding on .that cliff, but vegetation is there but there' s many places were it is sliding. This whole area is sliding is because. . . . . (defected tape, skipping portions. of conversation) I would be happy to answer any questions you have in regard to information on this property. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One question. Is Arcas to the east or west of Ciaputa? MR. COSTELLO: Both. There' s a parcel on each side. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And it says to join up with the neighbors.. Does that mean only Ciaputa or is there bulkheading to either side? MR. COSTELLO: Ciaputa is in the middle. There' s 200 ' in the middle and there' s Arcas on either side. Of all three of these contiguous. . . . (skipped) TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And all three will be armored with rock when they' re done? MR. COSTELLO: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because it wasn' t in the. . . . .it was in one description but not in the other. MR. COSTELLO: This is a resumption I believe. . . . . ( skipped) TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : Will you be restoring the bluff at all? MR. COSTELLO: Just the area that will be backfilled. Not the vegetation. . . . . . ( skipped) It just happens that the vegetation is sloped. . . . (skipped) TRUSTEE GARRELL: John, what' s that slope. Isn' t that something. 4 to 1 or 3 to 1? MR. COSTELLO: There is a couple of cavities in different areas. But it can be done. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I think you have to start the toe. . . . . . MR. COSTELLO: The thing is, there is plenty of vegetation there. If you could stop the vegetation from moving and the only way to stop it is the toe erosion.. There are several instances, and we have been involved in several cas.es in a much more extremely severe than. . . . ( skipped) TRUSTEE GARRELL- That' s the kind of thing I was thinking of. MR. COSTELLO: But there should be planting and vegetation and a limit for the vegetation being too. . . . . ( skipped, turned tape over) . If there' s enough vegetation down below, it can handle it. ( skipped) The vegetation. is very difficult to grown there where the whole cliff is sliding. I ' ll give you these _ photographs to enter into the record. Board of Trustees 24 June 27 , 1996 ALLAN CONNELL: Just one question. As the low on the erosion on the bluff. . . (skipped) TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : We did talk about that, I don't know if it' s that simple. After all I 've heard last week I don' t think it' s that simple as those people trying to feed the Sound with sand.. From what I've heard and this is what these three experts thought, during a storm event, you loose say, . 20 ' in one day, now many cubic yards of material is that? They said that at least 950 of that is lost off shore during a storm event. That most of that. . .just doesn' t storm off and stay and move along the shore, most of that is lost. in that storm event because the storm' s eating at the toe then. it slumps down and of course that' s soft, so that gets swept right out to deeper waters, except for the cobbles and boulders. All the sand and even the gravel are swept off shore and they never contribute to long shore movement of sand. ALLAN CONNEL.: I think that' s very accurate. Under a sever storm conditions that. . . . . (skipped) TRUSTEE GAR.REL: OK your not bulkheading to- the tippy top of the bluff and cutting off the whole bluff. Your armoring down below, your bulkhead only goes up so high, so you use to furnish some of the nourishment. Because your not cutting off the whole supply but your protecting from storms. ALLAN CONNELL: But your making the assumption that the above area .is eroding and that' s. . . (skipped) TRUSTEE GARREL : You look at what' s coming down say, below the gazebo up there, and boy, right now that doesn't look stable at all. There are major trees up there where roots are exposed and all kinds of .things. That top is not stable. ALLAN CONNELL: Once you put a hard structure at the toe of the bluff, your absolutely right, that' s gonna stop that toe erosion. . . . (skipped) TRUSTEE GARRELL: You may not be solving that problem there with that, you may. . . ( skipped) if you go further with terracing, Ciaputa may wind up five years from now or so having to chip off the top of the bluff to slope it out some more, some of the sand will slough down and probably cover some of the armoring. ALLAN CONNELL: That sand is not going into the Sound. That sand is staying on the. . . . (skipped) TRUSTEE. GARRELL: . . . .working toward a solution.. and this may be only the first step. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I have a question for Mr. Costello. Why can' t this be built at the toe of the bluff. We recommend that all the bulkheads be built at the toe of the bluff. MR. COSTELLO. It is being. . . . (skipped) because the increased elevation. We're trying to get it away from the Sound. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The reason that Al is saying that. is 'that. on the diagram there' s a considerable distance between what you've identified as toe of bluff and. . . . . MR. COSTELLO: It' s so steep. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On the next one it shows right along the toe. MR. COSTELLO: That scale looking down on something, the line is almost intersect. You can't get that to. scale. Because if the cliff was straight vertical all the lines would be one one. Board of Trustees 25 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : The cross section shows the toe. MR. COSTELLO: That is the detail.. One of the reasons that that is, is because it gives you more detail for the simple reason is we' re gonna try .to minimize the amount of fill that you bring into the location. And we' re trying to get away from the Sound. We don' t want to stop the waves, we just want to hold the cliff from eroding. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: My question also is, why can' t you reshape the bluff after the structure is built? MR. COSTELLO: There' s too much vegetation. And. we'd rather not, only because if you stop this toe, you will find as these photographs indicate, the areas are sliding, and you will see what that is gonna to do, is arrest some of the sliding. Whether it is gonna arrest it all, who knows. The trees that are in these photographs, laying at the base of the cliff, that' s erosion. You can see that the top one, this tree here, (indicating from pictures) , is going to come down. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were there a couple of times. Any other comment? TOM SAMUELS: We did an EAS for a bridge in Westhampton. . . . (skipped) . . .the Public Works forever. ( Changed defective tape) Now with the onset of. global warming and so on and this considerable conjecture about it, if you have been reading the Times lately, objects to the computer modeling that they are using, and that it doesn.' t. take. into effect cloud formation etc, etc, . They haven' t found the secret to that yet. I'm not just talking about just Goldsmith' s Inlet. Because that' s been going on in this town for 25 years. And every time we bring in an application bef.ore you for Sound front. protection, we go through this same discussion again. Now the point that he makes is a good point in that the bluffs no longer nourish the beach to the extent that they did. But you've got to look at the property owner, who is by no means obliged to give his property for public benefit to the beach. I for one have seen so many storms., see so much on shore drift after the storms of the very material that came off the bluff and then is brought back in the Spring. Every where you go, on all these properties. And I'm talking about down drift of the Mattituck Inlet, Bailey' s Beach area. That beach is all recovered. This 1992 storm, to a large extent. Now will it ever assume what it was before, no. Long Island is a sand bar. In geologic time it won' t exist. It sticks out into the Atlantic Ocean. It will not exist. It' s been nibbled at the sides all the way. However, municipalities in their wisdom have granted. building permits and sold property. In point of fact the. Trustees sold property to people to build on the Sound. Our Trustees, our original. government. Who at one time owned most of the land. So the point I 'm making is, and I hate to do this again to you guys, because I know where your interests lie, and I know we' re trying to mitigate the effects of shore hardening. John, just stated an example of that. Their gonna mitigate with rock armor. At great expense. And. it does absorb wave energy. And it doesn' t allow for much reflected energy to scour the beach. It works. Because things work, it would seem to be the way to go. We've Board of Trustees 26 June 27, 1996 covered bulkheads with sand, as John, you know. One gentleman spent $35,000 covering a bulkhead. One northeaster. In the meantime, we've got two working sand pits in eastern L.I. One in Quogue, and one in Bridgehampton. Life expectancy, limited. A precious product. What are gonna do when it' s gone? Can we afford to put it in Long Island Sound? In time if there is enough public interest, there will be off shore dredging projects as there are in the U.K. Great Britain, Germany, shores of France. The only solution, is it environmentally correct? I don' t know. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: we had that discussion also. TRUSTEE GARRELL: At Goldsmith' s Inlet discussion, it was on that. MR. SAMUELS: There' s a. prime area where you could use. it. By pass Mattituck Inlet. You've got to have Mattituck Inlet. But there are the solutions. But to burden property owners, trying to make safe their own property with solutions that are essentially beyond their means and that they have to give up their land to me doesn't make sense. Thank you for your time. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? TRUSTEE GARRELL: I think Tom, that that was very well taken and we spent. two days working that over. I'm sorry you missed that symposium. I must say, that the point stressed over and over again is that the things like beach nourishment and the bluff erosion nourishing the beaches, that' s a long term, rather small scale process. Whereas, the storms which become more violent and more frequent. Even if you do ,look at global warming, and even if you don't, look at just what' s happened on near term. Those storms are violent dramatic effects and they overwhelm the erosion process. So then your faced with which way you go and the only way to look at it now even for the Dept. of State & DEC people, is try to protect the property owner too. People are constantly re-thinking their techniques. and ways and we went through that last week. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: So moved. TRUSTEM KING: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion on the application? TRUSTEE KING: I' ll make motion to approve the application of Ciaputa. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES 9. - In the matter of Costello Marine on behalf of LUCIEN ARCAS requests a Wetland & coastal Erosion Permit to install a total of 200+/- ' of timber bulkhead in line with proposed bulkhead of Ciaputa ( 110' west & 95 ' east of Ciaputa) a 14' return and a 16' return armored with rock revetment, and 300 c.y. of clean fill. Located: Soundview Ave. , Southold. SCTM #50-2-6 & 8 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to make comments on that project that were not made before? MR. COSTELLO: Ditto. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE GARRELL: So moved. SD Board of Trustees . 27 June 27, 1996 ALL AN CONNELL: CAC ditto. TRUSTEE KING.: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE CARRELL: Motion to approve. TRUSTEE KING: ALL AYES 10 . - In the matter of ARNOLD NEUER requests Wetland Permit to clear 22' ROW for access to his property. Located: Mill Path Road, Southold. SCTM #56-4-16 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here to speak either in favor or against the application? MR. NEVER: We need to the- State Environmental Dept. and the site and I was instructed to plant some plants- and he tried to call Jill and I don' t know if he got through. He said the wood that was kind of put over into Mr. Auricchio' s property has been cut by hand and we can take it away with a dumpster with the wrecked auto parts there. One other thing he said Mr. Auricchio said he would like to chain across the road to prevent people from dumping garbage there. It' s OK with me if he wants to put a lock on it. In- driving here I started thinking that if it is. OK with the Trustees. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: To lock it? MR. NEVER: To chain across and lock it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think that' s even jurisdictional. He said it's about 80' from the main road. He wants to put it across. Mill Pond Road. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Somewhere by the building? Come show us. MR. AURICCHIO: The way he resolved it was, I don't know if he told you the whole story is. Was. not to give him a permit to do anything to restore it, and it was suggested to plant these things called ground bushes? Every 10' . A high tide bush along the line there. And then we' re gonna. put a gate across here, at this point ( indicating on survey) back about 801 . Just so no one can go around it, this is private property. It is not a road, it' s a path. And it' s privately owned and only for people who have property back there. So I ' ll put a lock. on it and no trespassing in it. And' put a sign on it, anybody wants information call me. It' s my land. You got a right of way but you know, you have a key, but anyone else has got to talk to me. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: For. the gate ask us in a letter requesting a Waiver to put up a gate there because it' s probably within our jurisdiction there. TRUSTEE GARRRELL: The other people who have need to access their property through that right of way can get keys to get through.. MR. AURICCHIO: There are only two people. I' ll put a sign on there and put my phone number and if they want a key. . . . . TRUSTEE CARRELL: It sounds like you guys are. working together. MR. NEVER: We try. MR. AURICCHIO: Did you tell them to hold the Resolution of Mr. Chiarella. He' s gonna call Diane. MR. NEUER.: I tried but it was 4:30 p.m. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Was there anything else? MR. AURICCHIO: The: bushes along there., the. gate, clean up all the mess he made there when he encroached, by hand. There are Board of Trustees 28 June 27, 1996 no permits. I 'm not giving any permission to clear anything else. He' s got to restore it. It' s cleared.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But the problem is what we have on the agenda here is to clear the path. What we. . . . . . MR. NEUER: There' s just one little thing I just. want to show you. It' s not on his property. My wife has. a road that' s 22' long. That' s to stay. The driver went kind of against the fence and you could see the property where the house is and. you could stones and grass and he kind of followed the fence. He knocked these trees down because its on the 22' but he didn' t. . . . .This shows the house on the front. So he said this. will. fill in naturally with grass and we're gonna plant the other bushes. On my side of the property we just want to fill in and he gave me an application. This was on a heavy rain and high tide and I said that fills up with water and originally we took some dirt out and let it dry and he said put a permit in and you fill that in. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Basically what I 'd like to do is deny your request to clear the right of way because that' s what we have. we have the application to clear the right of way. So if I denied your request then we can ask you to follow what the DEC said, to restore it and then. . . . . .we want to make it as painless as possible, make it clear. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: What we' re gonna do is deny his application. and he restore it as -per DEC specifications. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? I' ll take a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I' ll make a motion to deny the application to clear the property and to instruct the applicant to follow the DEC recommendations for restoring the damaged area. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES 11. - In the matter ,of KATHLEEN RIBARICH requests a Wetland Permit for an existing dock measuring as follows: platform 419" X 61111, ramp 2' 11" X 14 ' and 3 floating docks measuring 2012" X 4' ll" , 6' X 9' 10" , and 6 ' X 16,' . Located: 2295 Wells Ave. , Southold betw. LILCO pole #12 & 13 . SCTM ##70-4-20 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak either in favor or against this application? MS. RIBARICH: I 'm here to answer any questions you might have. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I saw it and had no problem with it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: Motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE GARRELL: So moved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE GARRELL: I move to approve this application. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES 12. - In the matter of Proper-T Services on behalf of DAVID Mc ELROY requests a Wetland Permit to construct a platform 3 ' X 10 ' , steps 3 ' X9 ' , a fixed dock 3' X 60' , a ramp 3 ' X 16 ' , a float 6 ' X 20 ' with 2- 2-pile dolphins., a 3 ' X 108 ' walkway and Board of Trustees 29 June 27, 1996 a 99 s.f . gazebo. Located: 2565 Long Creek Drive, Southold. SCTM #52-8-2 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? MR. FITZGERALD: Nothing to add as usual other than what you have in front of you. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Can I ask you a question? MR. FITZGERALD: Yes. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: This is a 3 ' X 60' walkway, right? Where does it start? At the base of the steps? It wasn' t clear from the drawing. MR. FITZGERALD: It starts at the bottom of the steps. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So it' s about 25' into the creek. MR. FITZGERALD: This is to scale, so. . . . . TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I went down there and did some soundings. I had 30' from the base of the bluff there where the steps end to the edge of the spartina. The seaward edge. So it' s another 30 ' to where the ramp starts. I got slightly different soundings than you got. I went down there yesterday, about 2: 30 p.m. which if you look in the book is about 1/2 hour before low water and the full moon is this weekend but the high tides are after the full moon so it was a little bit, it was almost average tide but maybe a little bit more than average tide. I took soundings every ten feet and when I was there the water low water was just about the edge of the spartina there. So 10 ' beyond the edge of .the spartina I have 1' 201 , I had 2' at 30' I had 314" . How big is the ramp. The ramp is 14? MR. FITZGER.ALD: 16 feet. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: A little beyond halfway down the ramp I had 5 ' of water. I waded out with a tape. . . . .it drops off pretty roughly there. So I was wondering if it needed to be that long. MR. FITZGERALD: Certainly not if there is 5 ' of water halfway out the ramp. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could we make it like an "L"? It would seem to give you about 41 . TRUSTEE WENCZEL: 3 ' at least. Maybe we could shorten the walkway a little bit. MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, we could shorten the walkway. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How much would you suggest? . Let' s get into the numbers here. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well, at least 10 ' I would say. If you put the end of the walkway at. . . . . . .10' or so. I think there would be plenty of water. MR. FITZGERALD: Could we include in the wording of the permit beside all the dimensions and then finish up with "as necessary to obtain 3 ' of water at low water`? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Apparently your low water is a little. different than mine. MR. FITZGERALD: I 'm a little bit concerned by visually measuring things from the edge of the spartina and like that. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I started at the base of the bluff. MR. FITZGERALD: Well, let' s start at he base of the bluff . Board of Trustees 30 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE WENCZEL: At the base of the bluff I would say, if you went. . . .the walkway 40' and then a 16' ramp and a 6 ' X 20 ' float. . . . MR. FITZGERALD: So now your suggesting that we shorten the walkway by 20") TRUSTEE WENCZEL: That would be my initial suggestion, yes. And that' s actually much larger than exists in that area. How big a boat are they gonna put on this? MR. FITZGERALD: I don' t know. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They can' t get under the bridge. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: That would be my suggestion. If that' s not possible we can take a look at it in the field and meet you down there sometime and do it again. MR. FITZGER.ALD: My concern is with getting 3 ' of water. Because that seems to be kind of standard figure. And if we're gonna do that with a 40 ' dock, that' s fine. On the other hand, I don' t want to stand here agreeing to a 40' dock and then. . . . . TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I understand. I'm not sure that this Board sees 3 ' as the. . . . .well I shouldn' t speak for the rest of the Board. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think. that in this case 3 ' is a reasonable. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because a short can reach 31 . MR. -FITZGERALD: The magic is not the length. Physically the length of the walkway where—how deep the water is at the end of the dock. TRUSTEE WENCZEL.: What do you need 3 ' of water for? MR. FITZGERALD: How many feet do we need? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Two would 'be adequate. For an outboard. MR. FITZGERALD: Why two? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Because that. would be enough to be able to put the motor down at low tide and back away from the dock. MR. FITZGERALD: Does everybody agree that two feet of water. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: I agree in this area because your constrained by the railroad bridge. And they're not gonna be bringing in the Queen Mary here. It' s impossible. They don't have delusions of dredging or doing anything else to get a big boat in. They' re pretty much limited by the L.I. railroad. In this case I` don' t know what they' re thinking but they' re limited. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: The other' point I would make is that even with a 40 ' walkway and 16 ' ramp and a 20 ' float- it would be the largest dock in the area. It would be larger than anything that is pre-existing. MR. FITZGERALD: One of the docks is always gonna be the largest in the area. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: But my point is that it's always been a policy of this Board to try and keep things relatively the same size. TRUSTER KRUPSKI: Right, to be consistent with the area. The largest dock doesn' t always have to be the newest one. I've got a •couple of questions. One is I've got a FAX from Jeannette here. CLERK: This is from Paul Caminiti' s Office. He was talking about Covenants and Restrictions.. Board of Trustees 31 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Dr. & Mrs. Slatkin or someone is representing them on behalf of the application for a dock and gazebo. Oh, Mr. & Mrs. Slatkin are here. We have your letter from an Attorney. It says, (Al reads letter) (see letter attached) . It is our Board' s policy and this comes- up occasionally that something is requested which is not allowed by the C & R' s on a deed. We've been advised legally that we may approve these, because it says here, not that we are gonna approve this one, but we may approve these. sort of things. It says prior written consent can be obtained,. is ,that correct? So the applicant can obtain written consent from some Bayview Lane Corporation in order to construct this. So -basically it' s not our job to interpret C & R' s of a property. If we can go through here an we can approve that, so say we approve' this tonight, he still can' t build it if it' s counter to his C & R' s. He still can' t, even with our approval, means nothing to the C & R' s in his deed. It just means nothing. If he goes back to the Bayview Lane Corporation and says, "look, I 'd like to build a gazebo" , and they say, "O.K." He' d still have to come to us for approval, anyway. It' s two separate distinct entities. If we grant our approval doesn' t mean he can automatically do it and throw these out the window. DR. SLATKIN: I understand, I just want to come here with my wife on our behalf and bring to your. attention we have written on our own behalf a letter to the Board of Trustees objecting to the gazebo. We also brought to the Board' s attention the existence of this covenant. Our objection is not based on the existence of the covenant. Our objections are based on the fact that this is an obtrusion on our view. And may I put photographs of our view into the record? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Please do. DR. SLATKIN: Thank you. Here' s a photograph of the zone in which the gazebo is asked to be constructed. It is asked to be constructed on this point (indicating on photograph) . It is taken from our property where we like to walk and look around at nature across this salt water marsh of which we are part owners and Mr. Mc Elroy is part owner here. This is a picture I have taken as soon as we received the notice of such a hearing. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can you please put a brief description on the back as far as your view, looking north. Just . so that we just see a picture. DR. SLATKIN: And here is virtually, you can identify the same trees, this tree over here (indicating on photo) was taken last winter. These couple' of trees are the same as these couple of trees. A winter view that we took of the Mc Elroy' s property shortly the property and the. house was built and shortly after Mr. Mc Elroy moved in. The tracks are from Mr. Mc Elroy' s ATV that he drove several times across the marsh. And his. description of the property as being undisturbed, that is not a fact. Mr. Mc Elroy .has substantially disturbed the property. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We were concerned about the tire tracks too. DR. SLATKIN: We feel that Mr. Mc Elroy, not only his Jgazebo will be an obtrusion on our winter view keeping in mind. � j Board of Trustees 32 June 27 , 1996 that we have a one story property and he has a large two story property. His view is down. his gazebo will not be nearly. as much of an obtrusion on his view, as his gazebo will be on our view because we are looking at it this way ( indicating on photo) he' s looking at it from a great big height.. We feel there will be more people there and more noise. I believe he has legally cut down large underbrush up to a certain height, perhaps 2-0 ' but that has. . . . . .but this gazebo will further make less likely that wild animals will be coming into this marsh. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Do you have a visual easement on your property by any chance? DR. SLATKIN: I don' t know what that means. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It means that you have the right to a view unobstructed. DR. SLATKIN: I 've never been told so. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Some people do the property and it comes with visual easements. DR. SLATKIN: When we bought our property we were under the impression there was water front property and we'd be able to have a nice view of the marsh and the trees. It never occurred to us that our neighbor would want to build that would be an obstruction of view. TRUSTEE GARRELL: It happens all the time in Southold Town and this is,, your case, very similar to 6 cases that we've had here in the last three years. It's unfortunate but this Board really can' t deal with problems like that. What we can deal with is dock sizing, a 100' walkway over wetlands and. . . .didn' t we decide the walkway was. . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think this walkway was denied by a previous Board. TRUSTEE GARRETLL.: The 3 ' X 108 ' walkway is. . . ...the property. owner, Mc Elroy, has access around that corner to his dock and ramp, so we felt. there was no reason for a walkway. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This came up previously. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The previous owner asked for the same application and was denied. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We denied it because we felt it was just unnecessary construction over what is pretty nice standard spartina. He has upland access and. . . MR. FITZGERALD: (said something, but could not hear it) TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yeah, but he does and if he doesn' t do it with an ATV. . . . . MR. FITZGERALD: Your not punishing him for having an ATV are you. ? TRUSTEE GARREL : Oh no. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We are concerned about the tracks in the middle of the marsh. DR. SLATKIN: Mr. Mc Elroy continues to allow the ATV to be driven around the marsh. I 'm his neighbor, sir, so I know. MR. FITZGERALD: I understand, and I apologize for not being able to keep Mr. Mc Elroy off his ATV. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it' s a problem when he' s. . . . . .take a look at the picture. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It' s well worth it. . We saw the same thing. Board of Trustees 33 .' June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we 'didn' t see that dramatically. MR. FITZGERALD: What is in the picture? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The winter picture: TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I mean, that' s a problem. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: When we were down inspecting, you could see that it had been used recently. We' re just saying we had a problem with that walkway across that part. We didn' t see the necessity for it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : And we should have something on record. I don't see it in the file. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'm sure. we can find it. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But they had asked for that same walkway across that same wetland and it was denied a year. ago. DR. SLATKIN: We' re just coming here to make representation on behalf of the gazebo. We wrote a letter to the Board in which we stated that we have no objection to the walkway. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But we have. It' s just that this has come up in the past. Do your know who owned the house before Mc Elroy? MRS. SLATKIN: No, he had the house built himself. ALLAN CONNELL: He claimed he built that house. ,TRUSTEE WENCZEL.: Yeah, that's a new house. DR. SLATKIN: You may be confusing it with our application for a short . 30' walkway across our part of the marsh which was denied. And. that denial was accepted by us. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Oh, that explains it. DR. SLATKIN: In fact that it was not denied, but the Board told us if we wanted to proceed with it further we should make further applications and so forth, but we withdrew and decided not to proceed. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: And you put a split rail fence up. DR. SLATKIN: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Now that we have established that. . . . . MR. FITZGERALD: Many of the things that come before this Board are not necessary. . . . . .the dock is not necessary. Not mine, but Mr. Mc Elroy's, not anybody' s. Unless your a Bayman, and make a 'living. A dock is nice to have. Gazebos may be nice to have to some person, and terrible to have for other people. In using the phrase, "it' s not necessary" , as a reason for denying an application for a particular structure, it seems to obviate the necessity for the homeowner to make a decision on what he or she would like and what would be nice and what is aesthetic and what would improve the enjoyment, quiet enjoyment as we say of the property. That' s all. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s a good point and well taken. DR. SLATKIN: We also have a right to require enjoyment of our property and part of our enjoyment is when we go down to our property and look across the marsh we do not necessarily want a congregation of our neighbors and his relatives out there on his gazebo. We want a normal, what is normally done. in. this area. People to walk along but they do not normally build structures and gather right on the property that we were led to believe when we bought our property was going to be more or less left in a natural state. Board of Trustees 34 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE GARRELL: The sad thing, as we pointed out to people is that there is only one way to deal with that in a Town like this is to buy that. property. So that it' s yours and somebody else can' t come in and make plans for it. You never can count on that nice view and that other property being there in perpetuity. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It' s a fine line between saying, "people are going to congregate around a gazebo or put a couple of picnic. tables and umbrella there which would need a permit and they' ll congregate there anyway.. -DR. SLATKIN: But we were led to believe that land that has on one side a Bay and the other side a salt marsh, a narrow slip of land which was supposed to be left, and I don' t know what the terminology was there. . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Undisturbed? MR. FITZGERALD: Pristine. DR. SLATKIN: In Mr. Mc Elroy' s application on his map he has a term there. I don't see how the Town Board can consider the construction of 99 ' square gazebo compatible with the term undisturbed land. MR. FITZGERALD: That was the undisturbed word added by the surveyor probably as a requirement for either' the DEC or. . . . . (too many people talking at once) TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The Board required a 50 ' undisturbed buffer zone between the house and the wetlands and I don' t think we extended that to the. . . . .the intent of. the Board then was to limit the disturbance between the wetlands and the house giving no thought to the area of disturbance on that point of land because we didn' t think the house would have any disturbance. But your point is well taken also. Getting back to Mr. Fitzgerald here, I admt. that is sort of vague when I say not necessary. what I should have said is that as an alternative to that ,disturbance and that disturbance of a catwalk across that wetlands goes against the standards set forth in Chapter 97.28 A adversely affect the wetlands of the Town. TRUSTEE GARRELL: You've got the alternative access to that strip and that' s the whole point. In many cases somebody who wants to access a creek front or a Bayment has no choice but to go across wetlands. But Mt. Mc Elroy is fortunate in having a way around. That' s the case that. makes this one singular. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Mr. Mc Elroy also has two jet skiis dragged up on the inter-tidal area. I 'm assuming they' re his. Which is not acceptable. The ATV is, we consider, to be serious, because he' s doing serious damage there. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My own personal concerns are, one is the walkway across our marsh. I have some negative feelings on that. I think that will have to be removed from the application if you want to move forward tonight. Secondly, the size of the dock can be reduced to a length in which he will have 2' of water at low tide. And that is something that we can put in that way. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I think that' s a mistake. I think what we ought to do is permit a walkway that would give him length. Board of Trustees 35 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: As long as .it' s that length and if you find out when you build it it isn' t sufficient you can come. back. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, don't find out when you build it. Check first, build later. Find out from a dock builder, go out that many feet and if you have to come in for an amendment. . . : MR. FITZGERALD: The third we' ll make it 40' for the purposes. of expediting the issue into the permit. and if it turns out that that' s a problem we'll be back. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The third thing is whether there is contention as. to the gazebo. My own feeling on the gazebo is that. this is the man' s property and if he wants to put a picnic table or a gazebo out there he is allowed to do that. It' s , against the C & R's of the property owners than the property owners have to go after him and stopping them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They shouldn't have to go after him. He should have to seek relief from the C & R' s before you can do it. TRUSTEE. KING: :That' s a touchy thing. Because if you put it up and get away with it, they can' t make you take it down. Even though it' s against the violation. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does he need a building permit? MR. FITZGERALD: You would certainly have to get a building permit. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Now, can the Building Dept. approve it.) ALLAN CONNELL: The Building Dept. won't take issue in C & R' s. It' s a private entity. The Building Dept. nor the Town will not enforce the issue. DR. SLATKIN: So does this mean that we. have legal document registered with the County of Suffolk and that the only relief we have is to take civil action against Mr. Mc Elroy to prevent him from violating this covenant? TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yes. . TRUSTEE RING: Is there like a property owners association there? DR. SLATKIN: It' s mentioned in here but, the actual association has never been formed. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We operate under the Andros Patent of 1676 in ,the Town Code Chapter 97 which doesn't include any private development C & R's. DR. SLATKIN: But Mr. Mc Eloy has already received a letter from our attorney notifying him of the existance of this. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was. after his application. DR. SLATKIN: Right. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So maybe he realizes it can't happen. DR. SLATKIN: So .we have to take immediate action and get a court order and stop him from building the gazebo. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yes. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So, Jim (referring to Jim Fitzgerald) , I' ll just throw that out and is that a. reasonable way to proceed with the application as far as you and your client are concerned.? MR. FITZGER.ALD: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment? TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to close the hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES \ Board of Trustees 3 6 . June 27 , 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I' ll make a motion to approve the application for a platform 3 ' X 10 ' , steps 3 ' X 9 ' , fixed dock that will extend 40 ' , a ramp 3 ' X 16' and a float 6 ' X 20' and 2- 2 pile dolphins and a 99 s.f gazebo. TRUSTEE ,KRUPSKI: Before we vote on this there's an awful lot of disturbance in that' area as far as soil movement and what not around the house. Unfortunately when we were out on field inspection we didn't measure from the house. From looking at this it seems they pushed well beyond that- no disturbance sign. MR. FITZGERALD: The haybales were still there, were they not? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Haybales are in a contiguous line now. ' Cause. what I'm suggesting is something that we've done in the past, is have them do something permanent at that 50 ' line. Because it seems like they've got a problem with encroachment there. Something should be done to help them control themselves as far as ,complying with their permit. TRUSTEE GARIELL: A non-turf buffer, plantings? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well you could see it was all dug up. See, we didn' t measure, and we're at a disadvantage because. . . . . .so it' s impossible for me to say. . . . MR. FITZGERALD: Measure what Al? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: From the house—It' s impossible for me to say, "oh, yeah it' s one little corner they have to turn around there or something and it wasn' t a big deal" . As f ar as I know it could be right here. So I'm gonna say that this staked row. . . . MR, FITZGERALD: So your concerned about the 50' buffer zone. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. From here I can' t tell. I'd like to add onto that before we vote that a staked row of haybales be• put in place at the 50' area until th.at. 50' area can be stailized with natural plantings with no turf vegetation. MR. FITZGERALD: Is that what -the original permit says? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The permit shouldn't be. . . . .there shouldn' t be any disturbance there. What I don' t want to do is table this for next months meeting. So I'd rather say have they put the haybales in place_ MR. FITZGERALD: No, what I'm asking is is this a new requirement or re-affirmation of. . . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: (reads from file) As proposed, there shall be no construction, clearing, or grading located within 75' of the area of tidal wetlands. Now that' s just a letter from J.M.O. Consulting. What was actually permitted out. . . . . .Oh, here, we have a staked row of haybales at 751 . But clearly that hasn't been maintained. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: There should have been haybales at 751 • and no disturbance 50' , 25 ' inside, the haybales for sure. That doesn' t appear to be the case. Now do we send the Bay Constable down. MRS. SLATKIN: Does no disturbance include not cutting down the underbrush along the perimeter. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Generally. that underbrush is not included in. . . .see the no disturbance zone is not. . . .it' s not made clear on this survey that the no disturbance zone didn't include that slit of land there. The no disturbance zone was specifically Board of Trustees 37 June 27, 1996 stated between the wetlands and the house construction. I just found a letter here. "The above referenced property was inspected in the proposed single family dwelling is out of the Trustees jurisdiction. The staked row of haybales should be placed at .the 75 ' line and no activity shall take place- seaward of that line as per map dated 5/30/95. So we- definitely have a violation-. DR. SLATKIN: The gazebo would also be seaward. of that line. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, they're applying for that. There's a difference between them saying they' re not gonna have any disturbance between there and. going in and doing it. And I ask the rest of the Board, is there a violation there? TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yes. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Sounds like it. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That' s a separate issue. I think this application is something different. Now do we want to hold this application up because there is a violation or. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It' s sort of unrelated. Diane, please send the Bay Constable out and give him this map and there' s a letter here. Show him this. MRS. SLATKIN: I guess we should tell you that we already called the Bay Constable about the ATV in the marsh. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: When 'did you do that, may we ask? MRS. SLATKIN: That was last December. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: And what did. he say? MRS. SLATKIN: He said he would pay them a visit and warn them not to use their ATV.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Diane, could you ask for a copy of the report. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: There' s been a lot of, and I'm sure it' s not just the Mc Elroys., but there' s been a lot of ATV activity in that area. There was somebody riding up and down the marshes all winter and a number of us pointed it out. DR. SLATKIN: There' s just one ATV activity in our area. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well this would be on the other part of the creek. DR. SLATKIN: Well this one belongs to Mr. Mc Elroy and is riden by Mr. . Mc Elroy and his family. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have a motion and we have a second. ALL AYES. 13 . - In the matter of Bill Kelly on behalf of ROBERT & CHRISTA BROWN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 1,800 s.f. building with 18 gravel parking spaces. and sanitary system. Located: Route. 25, Greenport, north side of road. SCTM #45-4-6.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application. MR. KELLY. It' s pretty straight forward what we have to do up there. We went to the Planning Board, the Board of Health, the DEC, DOT. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any Board comment? TRUSTEE GARRELL.: Move to close the hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES Board of Trustees 38 June 27, 1996 Ll TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to approve. TRUSTEE KING: Second. ALL AYES 14. - In the matter of J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of WILLIAM PYMM requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct inkind/inplace 150 ' of timber groin and to construct a 50 ' timber groin in the same location as 50 ' deteriorated groin. Located: ROW off Reeve Ave. , Mattituck. SCTM. #122-9-7 . 9 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is an application that- is no stranger to this Board. CAC recommends disapproval because there is no demonstrated need. I have to disagree with that. because I don' t know. . . .I'm not sure what. . . .in a Coastal Erosion sense, I'm not quite sure what "need". is. What would you build there that you could say you needed. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: This is the one that maybe they're questioning, but even when we saw that there was low water, all this is sand. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well there' s only like 5 posts there. What this is to prove is that that was in fact funtioning recently. Because there' s the. house and there' s the pool. And that house was marginally in our jurisdiction at the time. TRUSTEE GARRELL: The question is whether this is non-funtional now. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It' s non-funtiona . now. I guess what they' re trying to prove is that. . . . .now June 12, 1996 says at the present time we are requesting to withdraw predjudice this application. Oh, they re-applied. There' s a letter here, (see attached) . Also read letter to Mr. Just, from DEC. ( see attached) They (DEC) granted them for everthing. Mr. Just' s letter backf to them must have been very persuasive. (Read letter to DEC from Mr, Just) . Apparently based on this picture they have, the State has changed it' s ways. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And now, if I'm right, this. is almost buried. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:. No. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But isn' t the sand up to here? All around here? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. The water washes right through it to the same level. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : It' s like one inch or two inches of water though. on this side and this side. That sand bar was all the way out like this. There was water there. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI : There was water half way, and the poles were in the water and somewhere on the beach. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there another one down here? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, that' s it. We stood right here. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But the sand right up. . . . .this was all shallow, ankle deep, all this area. It' s filled in up here. That' s why I said that it doesn' t make any difference whether they put it there or not because it' s buried almost. It' s not gonna have any affect on anything. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : But the poles stick up. The DEC probably approved the low profile groin. Which would trap sand in there ,like that and hold it there. But as far as how you and I could disagree. . . . . . Board of Trustees 39 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE GARRELL: One of the problems with remembering that is that all the time we were engaging in. conversation about the mudd beach sand groin. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What they approved here is a 6 ' high jetty. How could the State hvae approved a. 6' jetty there? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL Well we' ll just approve a low profile. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well what' s a low profile? You'd better have a new drawing. You'd better get it in black and white. A low profile, they're gonna. build it and say, "oh, that' s what we thought". They're gonna say, "well, we built it according to plans". TRUSTEE GARRELL: Why don't we approve it tonight the reconstruction inkind/inplace of 150' and talk to -Glenn about the 50' and tell him we would approve a low profile. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s what I .want to see and he' s got the 6' here. . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That' s there and it' s functioning. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to close. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI': I' ll make a motion to approve the 150' timber groin inkind/inplace, and the 50' groin at a low profile with Board approved plans. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES 15. - In the matter of WILLIAM A. HANDS, JR.' requests a Wetland & Coastal Erosion Permit to .construct a single family dwelling, garage, driveway, well and sanitary system as per map dated May 21, 1996. Located: 960 Willow Terrace Lane, Orient. SCTM #26-2-21 TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Moved to close the hearing. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. all ayes TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL: There' s no problem except I would recommend haybales at the seward crest of the hill. I' ll make a motion to approve. TRUSTEE KING: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE WENCZEL. Motion to go back to the regular meetings, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES V. RESOLUTIONS: 1. DAVID WIRTZ requests a Grandfather Permit for a 160' bulkhead and to replace inkind/inplace 15 rotted pilings. Located: 246 Pine Place, Gardiners Bay Estates, East Marion. SCTM #37-4-13 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded.. ALL AYES 2 . J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of CAROL STANCS requests a Grandfather Permit to reconstruct inkind/inplace 100 ' of timber bulkhead and backfill structure. with 10 c.y. of clean fill trucked in from -an upland source. Located: 1120 West Lane, Southold. SCTM #88-6-16 Board of Trustees 40 ' June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES 3 . Larry Matzen on behalf of GARDINERS BAY ESTATES HOME OWNERS ASSOC. requests a Grandfather Permit for a 77 ' jetty and a 368' bulkhead which has been in existence since 1931. Located: on west end of beach, Orient Harbor, East Marion. SCTM #37-5-23.2 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES 4. Larry Matzen on behalf of GARDINERS BAY ESTATES HOME OWNERS ASSOC. requests a Grandfather Permit fora 6' wide 7617" long foot bridge to beach. Located: 14814" from Knoll Circle to bridge on 10' ROW, East Marion. SCTM #37-5-23 . 2 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES 5 . Larry Matzen on behalf of GARDINERS BAY ESTATES HOME OWNERS ASSOC. requests a Grandfather Permit for a 516" wide a 5614" long foot bridge to Fox Island. SCTM #37-4-18 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES VI . MOORINGS• 1. KENNETH ANDERSON requests a mooring for a 17 ' inboard/outboard in Little Creek with a 75 lb. mushroom. ACCESS: Public. As per Bay Constable. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded.' ALL AYES 2. EILEEN JOHNSON requests an onshore/offshore stake in Corey Creek for a 15 ' outboard.. ACCESS: Public. As per Bay Constable. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 3 . PATRICIA L. OSBORNE requests a mooring in Narrow River for a 12' sailboat with a 75 lb. mushroom. ACCESS: Public. As per Bay Constable. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES 4 . EDWARD W. WORTH requests a mooring in Mud Creek for a 25' outboard with a 100 lb. mushroom. ACCESS: Public. As per .Bay Constable. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 5 . ROBERT J. VOELKEL JR. , requests a mooring in Mudd Creek for a 24' sailboat with a 150 lb. mushroom. ACCESS: Private. As per Bay Constable. vAIA Board of Trustees 41 June 27, 1996 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve only if another applicant Edward Worth turns down the same spot and Bay Constable says there is room, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 6. CHRISTINE GRETSCH requests an onshore/offshore mooring in East Creek for an 18" outboard. ACCESS: Private. As per Bay Constable. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 7 . WILLIAM W. JOHNSON requests an onshore/offshore mooring in Goose Creek for a 17 ' outboard.. ACCESS: Private. As per Bay Constable. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL. seconded_ ALL AYES. 8. MATT FLYNN requests a mooring in Gull Pond for a 151 outboard with a 75-100 lb. mushroom. ACCESS: Public. Bay Constables requirement: No more than an 18 ' boat at any time on mooring. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES Meeting adjourned at: 11:00 p.m. Respectfully Submitted By: Diane J. Herbert, Clerk