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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/30/1997 7 OFO1�C Albert J. Krupski, President y. goy Town Hall John Holzapfel, Vice President c 53095 Main Road. P.O. Box 1179 Jim King Martin H. Garrell oj, �� Southold, New York 11971 Peter Wenczel ��j �`�o Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES DRIL 30, 1997 PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, Jr. , President John Holzapfel, Vice - President Jim King, member Martin Garrell, member Jill Doherty, Clerk ABSENT: Peter Wenczel, member CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wed. MAY 21, 1997 12:00 p.m. NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Wed. , MAY 28, 1997 7P.M. WORKSESSION: 6: 00 p.m.. APPROVE MINUTES: Approve minutes. of MARCH 1997 Regular Meeting. I > MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for MARCH 1997 : A check for $2,310 . 48 was forwarded to the Supervisor' s Office for. the General Fund. II . PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk' s Bulletin Board for review. III . AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: 1 . DANIEL. MOONEY requests an Amendment to permit. #4563 to construct new single family dwelling as per survey dated November- 28, 1995. House across the street will remain as is.. Located Rabbit Lane, East Marion. SCTM #31-17-11 . A motion was. made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE KING to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. 2. JAMES HARMON, JR. requests a Waiver to plant cedar trees and place a berm 50-60 yards of topsoil, two feet deep at the crest to facilitate the planting of the trees. Hay bales will be utilized as indicated on diagram. Located 1175 Cedar Point. Drive East, Southold. SCTM #92-1-9. ' . Board of Trustees 2 April 30, 1997 A motion was made by TRUSTEE KING and seconded by TRUSTEE. GARRELL 'to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES... 3 . ROBERT AND PAT ALCUS requests_ an Amendment to Permit. #4386 to reflect the survey dated April 8, 1996, 12' X 36' pool, 171 X 57 ' deck and a 13 ' X 25' deck, hot tub, and garage. Located Cedar Point Drive East, Southold. SCTM. #92-1-2.1. A motion was. made by TRUSTEE. KING and. seconded by TRUSTEE. GARRELL.. to approve the above application, subject to non-turf buffer as per original permit. -ALL AYES. 4. MARIA ANDRIOPOULOS requests: a Waiver to construct deck. additions to existing deck and. dwel.ling as per plan dated as received April 11, 1997 and ZBA Permit. Located 1605 Westview Dr. , Mattituck. SCTM. #107-7-9. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE KING to Table this application until. 5-21-97, for the next field inspection. Retaining wall built without permit and is on neighbors property. ALL AYES. 5. LEO OLSEN requests an Amendment to permit #328 to reposition a 4' X 35' dock as per drawing dated 3-3-97. Locatted 3590 North, Road,. Greenport. SCTM #35-4-28.12. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE KING to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. 6. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of JEAN N. CALHOUN requests a Waiver to construct a swimming pool, pool backwash, decking, retaining wall and fencing. All work is greater than 75' from M.H.W. As per plans dated 3/25/97. Located Private Road, Fishers Island. SCTM #3-2-7 . A motion was made. by TRUSTEE. KING and. seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL. to approve the above application as- described.. ALL AYES.. 7 . Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of WILLIAM PENNY requests. to Transfer Permit # ' s 4590 & 4379 .from Michael J. Leahy to William Penny, Also to Amend Permit #4379 to change- configurati.on of dock from 3 ' X 26' dock, 3 ' X 16 ' rump and one 6 ' X 20' float straight out to a 4' X 40' dock, 3 ' X 1.6' ramp, two 6' X. 16' floats in "L" configuration.,. three. 2 - pile dolphins and two storm poles._"Located 2200 Hobart Ave. , Southold.. SCTM #64-3-4. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KING and seconded. by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.. to approve the above application as described. ALL. AYES. 8. HENRY DUPRE requests an Amendment. to Permit #33.4 to install a 4' X 5' ramp and a 5' X 20' float and 2 pilings. Located 1460 Strohson Road., Cutchogue. SCTM #103-10-29.1. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the above application as described.. ALL AYES. 9. David Cichanowicz, on behalf of. ALICE 'AND CHARLES Levien requests a Waiver to reconstruct pond, approx. 65 c.y. of fill., 36" high wall. and 50' long flared downward toward each end as per plan. dated as received April 28, 1.997. Located Beebe Drive, Cutchogue.. SCTM #97-7-25/26. Board of Trustees 3 April 30, 1997 A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL. and. second.ed. by TRUSTEY KING. to approve the above application as: described. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI ABSTAINED. ALL AYES. IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING: APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THR WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVR AN AFFIDAVIT OF' PUBLICATION' FROM; THE.- SUFFOLK: TIMES.... PERTINENT' CORRESPONDENCK MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE: PUBLIC. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED' AND BRIEF: FIVE ( 5) MINUTES OR LESS:, IF POSSIBLE. 1. Pat Moore on behalf of RICHARD SIRIANO requests. a. Wetland. Permi.t. to construct a bulkhead in a 30' X 35' existing basin with ( 2) 10' returns with associated dredging, 8' wide walk around basin, and approval for existing 3 ' X 12.' ramp and 5' X 20' float. Located.. 600 Beebe. Drive, Cutchogue. SCTM #97-7-5. TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL: We met with that one before, so I 'm going to make a motion that we table this till next month. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTER KING to Table the application till next month. ALL AYES. 2. Proper-T Permit. Services on behalf of WILLIAM LATHAM requests a Wetland Permit to construct stairs from top of bluff to beach, with 4' X 8' platform at top; stairs 4' wide with run of 31 ' -911 . Located 1310 Grand View Drive, Orient. SCTM #14-2-3.16. TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone in. the pub.li.c. that would like: to speak for or against this application? MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, Jim Fitzgerald for Mr'. Latham. I don' t have anything to add. to the information that' s in the application, but I would be more than happy to answer any questions. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: Ls there anybody else that would like to speak from the public? I did the inspection and there is absolutely no problem in my mind with the project. It' s standard steps going from the top of the bluff to the base. They are 4 feet or 3 1/2. feet above? MR. FITZGERALD: 3 1/2 . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: That.' s been changed? MR. FITZGERALD.: Yes. CLERK: CAC recommends approval with.. the exception of _4 feet above grade. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: Anybody else have any comments? I' ll make a motion that we close. the. hearing. A motion was made. by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL. and seconded. by TRUSTEE KING to close the: hearing.. ALL. AYES... A motion was made by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL. and. seconded. by TRUSTER GARRELL to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. 3 . J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of LESTER EISENBERG requests. a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X. 1.0' fixed. dock, 3 ' X 12' ramp and 6' X 20 ' float 15 ' off property line. Original. dock was: 3 ' off property line. Located 925 Long Creek. Drive, Southold. SCTM. #55-3-27. Board of Trustees ' 4 April 30, 1997 CLERK: I believe Marty inspected this. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I looked at that, my only question was, it' s such a small piece, it' s a small creek. The question is does that actually . get out into the deeper water, and. I had no 'problem. with it. I did want to know there's. two properties here, the one has: a very large piece of property on it., and. the: other one has a. house. that' s: staked. out on it. Which one is the Eisenberg property? Does Eisenberg- have a house on his property? CLERK Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, according to this it does. TRUSTEE GARRELL.: The photographs that are. accompanying this:, they are basically, everything'-s right there in the. photograph.. So. I have no. problem with it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I doesn't seem like an awfully large structure. TRUSTEE. GARRELL.: NO, where the heck does. that creek come out into.? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Arshamomaque. TRUSTEE . GARRELL: It comes right out into the Arshamomaque. Yeah sure. o.k. ' TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : So your not putting a bi.g boat there any way cause • your going to get under the railroad wrench. TRUSTEE. GARRELL.: That's why everybody' s got the little 14' canoes- and. . .yeah. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You want to make a motion on that? A motion was made by TRUSTEE. GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to .close .the hearing: ALL AYES.. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL. and seconded by TRUSTEE: . HOLZAPFEL to approve. the above application as. described. ALL. AYES. A. Lynda Spangel on behalf of GREGORY ANTOIAN requests a Wetland Permit for a 4' X 70' catwalk across wetlands. Located 330 Inlet Lane, . Gr.eenport. SCTM #43-5-3 .17. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : I think this is another one of Marty' s, I believe. TRUSTEE. GARRELL.: Is thi.s. the one. tha.t, the catwalk is in there right? CLERK: Right.. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yeah everybody's got similar structures on theadjacent. pr.operties, so there' s no problem with that. I make a motion to go off the public hearing. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUS.TEE; GARRELL. and seconded by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES.. 5. Michael Sylvester on behalf- of ROBERT" EHRENTHAL. requests.. a Wetland Permit and. Coastal. Erosion. Permit. tar construct 127" of CCA bulkhead with 1 - 15' armored- return on the east side and bulkhead will tie into neighbors. bulkhead. to. west and- be armored.. 1000. c..y. +/- of clean fill will be brought in and bluff will be re-vegetated.. Also replace existing stair case with 3 - 4' X 4' platform landings. All broken concrete and block will be removed from site and old. staircase as per plans. dated 4/10/97. Located 19575 Soundview Ave. , Southold. SCTM #51-4-1.1.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The board looked at this. I.s there anyone who would like to speak in favor of or against. the application? CAC. recommends approval, by the bulkhead. is placed as close to the foot of the bluff pr.oper.ty as. possible. Board of Trustees 5 April 30, 1997 CLERK: We haven't finished looking into the neighbor yet. CAC asked about that too. We haven't found anything yet. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL:. Does this, also go over the- property line now. CLERK: He has a letter of permi.ssion. from- the. neighbor. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: And. he. does have: the letter? CLERK: Yes, it' s in the file.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It' s proposed where it was. marked. on the field. though. So there not going to put it out here. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL.:. No but it' s crossing-the- line.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah I understand that. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL:. That's a1.1 I. was asking, we: just wanted- to make sure that. that was covered. . TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI : O.K. and here they are not. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL:. That' s a. problem. Was their any reason why? CLERK: He coul.dn.' t get the neighbors- permission to tell you over there, to even go near him. . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we will in a year when this is got out here. Do I have a motion to close the hearing? A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded-. by TRUSTEE GARRELL to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL., to approve the above application as described. . ALL AYES. 6. Bay Creek Building on behalf of FRANK SCAVONE requests a Wetland Permit. to add, a 45' X 12' two story addition to the south side of the house, with no further encroachment towards the water/bluff as per plans dated as received 4/10/97'. Located 1615 Fleetwood Road, Cutchogue. S.CTM #137-4-35. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here that would like to speak in favor of or against the applicant, any comment from the board? We talked about it before and. there' s no. problem:. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Is this the one that involves the letter. to Louis. Chiarella.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes, but. not about. the house. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : This is just a house, she' s almost non jurisdictional. TRUSTEE. GARRELL: That letter is a. great. example. of why you should never, write a letter on the spot, then sit around. . . TRUSTEE KING: Did you ask him for any drywel.ls for the roof.? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s a good idea. TRUSTEE KING: Should we ask them?. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah, definitely. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL:. We mentioned it.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No we should put it, what did the. CAC say? Recommends approval o.k. Igo I have a motion to approve the hearing? A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAP.FEL. and. seconded. by TRUSTEE. GARRELL to close the hearing. -ALL AYES.. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded. by TRUSTEE- HOLZAPFEL to approve: the above: application as. described, subject to drywells to contain roof run off-. ALL AYES. 7. Samuels & Steelman Architects on behalf of MIKE WITHERS. requests a Wetland. Permit to construct a 950 s.f. one story addition to an existing l 1/2 story wood frame house, interior.- and. exterior renovations. to the existing house, a dormer: addition to an existing. garage, gravel parking area, two 6' high fences. as per site plan I Board of Trustees i April 30, 1997 dated 3/31/97 . . Located. 6635 New Suffolk Ave. , New Suffolk.. SCTM 117-5-24. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Is there any one here would. like to speak in favor or against the. application? CAC. recommends: approval for. a. 1.0' non turf buffer behind, the: bulkhead:. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: The only comment- I have is where' s the 101 , is it. worth putting a. 10' buffer over here:. I mean are we: going to ask that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. I. don.' t think so. Only when they re do the: bulkhead.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So do we even want to include a buffer? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI': No. Any other comment. Do. I. have a motion to close the hearing? A motion was made. by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL. and. seconded:.by TRUSTEE KING to close the hearing.. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and. seconded by TRUSTEE KING. to approve the. above.- application as described. ALL AYES. 8. WARREN AND MARY JACKSON requests: a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 32' catwalk, 3 ' x 12' ramp and a 6 ' X 20' float in a "T" configuration. Located 300 Deep Hole Drive, Mattituck. SCTM #115-12-4. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is. there anyone here that would.. like to speak in. favor of or against this application? CAC recommends approval, and they want a non turf buffer. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Again. they're not disturbing this.., I could. understand it if they were. You know Jill, just as a .point to save time, this. should be 3 1/2 or 4 feet. That should. be an. automatic thing, above the marsh. You know in other words_, everybody always. writes catwalk., .if you can. just tell, them that it's supposed to be. 4 feet. Than we don' t have, to keep: adding it to everyone, the same: thing with the steps going. down the bluff. Just as. a general.. . .it' ll make, instead of having to put it in every application and change- it. CLERK: O.K. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Jim, you looked at. this.? TRUSTEE KING: Yeah., this really doesn.'t ga across any marsh, to speak of. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: .Oh is it, I just saw catwalk.. There you go. TRUSTEE KING: There' s. no need to worry about the height on this one. It' s just straight forward., there' s plenty of room. There' s absolutely no problem there at all. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 'There.' s enough room across? TRUSTEE KING:: Excuse. me.? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: Is there enough water? TRUSTEE KING: Oh yeah, it's wide open.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: O.K. Do I. have a motion to close.. the: hearing.? A motion was- made:. by TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL. and seconded. by TRUSTEE. GARRELL to close the hearing-. ALL AYES.. A motion. was. made. by TRUSTER KING and seconded. by TRUSTEE.- HOLZAPFEL to approve: the. above application. as. described- ALL. AYES:. 9. Dean Hough on behalf. of JOSEPH, PILLUS_ requests a. Wetland. Permit to construct a 3 ' X 3 ' platform- off bulkhead with a 3 ' X 8' ramp, 6' X 2.0' float. to a 3 ' X 10' float_ to a 6' X 20' float. as. per drawing. received April 11, 1997. Located- 2280 Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck.. SCTM #12.2-4-1.G. " Board of Trustees ,. .7 April 30, 1997 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here that would like to comment on. this application, in. favor .or against? We met with the. applicant on site. We decided. on a different- configuration. CLERK:. Yeah, we haven't gotten the new drawing, I think it was just a eliminating that., and putting- these: two together. TRUSTEE...KRUPSKI I, think it was. to, keep the,. let., me: see:, do we. have the survey? CLERK: So it. would be 15 feet? TRUSTEE. KING: It' s going to .be the floats- against the. bulkhead., with, the boat tied up in front of the floats. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI. Start with the one float, 15 feet off the southerly property line, and. then go with, the two floats,, and. then put his. boat" against the bulkhead.. Because the boat and the float block. the channel.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: Say that again Al., I 'm sorry. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He' s allowed to put 2 floats starting 15 feet off the property line., on the southerly side. He can't use the, 10' float, because that brings it up too far, because hels got- to park his boat. He' s got to put the big boat against the bulkhead, on the north end of the property. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL.: It' s already going to be to the property line, with the 15' boat. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.: The- boat will go to the property line., but there' s no. It' s the structure that. he can' t put to the property line_. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: And so why does he need the floats? CLERK: To keep it- off the bulkhead, he claims his. boat hits the bulkhead.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: No, we are not permitting him to put thee big boat on. there, because it will. block the. channe.l.., and. if he. does than it's a violation. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Did he avenge? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: No. We" can.. just. Table: it than.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.:. I mean. I wouldn' t want- to tall- him, if he' s not here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: CAC recommends disapproval because- the project. causes excess bottom cover. CAC recommends" approval. of permit fora one 6' X 20 ' float only. I don't know, we could approve one 6' X 20' float, 15' off the property line., or we could just Table it.. We should Table it cause it was a week and we haven' t heard anything from him. CLERK: They did call and. I never got back in touch- with them.. TRUSTEE. KING.: Let_ Win give us a. new drawing of exactly what he-' s. going to put there. Because there's been problems here on this- property. TRUSTEE' KRUPSKI::. O.K. Is that.. a motion? TRUSTEE KING: Yes. A motion. was. made by TRUSTEE. KING and. sec.onded.. by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL to TABLE. this application, upon receipt- of new drawing, (2) 61X 20' floats starting 15' away from southerly side. O.K. ALL AYES. 10. KIM MONTWILL- requests a Wetland. Permit to construct" a single: family dwelling, porch., driveway, septic. system., 1000 C.Y. of fill... Also to construct a 4' X 30' catwalk, 4' X 10' ramp and a 4' X 16' float as per plan dated March. 25., 1.997. Located. Jackson Landing.,. Mattituck. SCTM #113-4-4. Board of Trustees 3 April 30, 1997 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any one here would like to .speak in favor of or against the application? MRS. THEUER: I own and live in the property- right next door. I have seen her plans, and. I have no objections at all. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.:. Could. you just give your name. MRS. THEUER:. THEUER: TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL.:. Thanks.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI:: I. don' t think we had any questions about: the__ house,. we did have some questions about how- you would handle:. . . . our permita carry, cover everything:, including- any activities:. So what' s your intensions. as. far as_ clearing, for a view? We assume most people do.. MRS. MONTWILL: O.K. so the grading will be done by- the construction: . company. Pretty much that' s it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But. I mean. will the:. grade:, do you propose to change: the grade? MRS. MONTWILL: What will the grade. be? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes? MRS. MONTWILL: Is existing and then future grade on them; so. This7 is the present grade. Wait a second. TRUSTEE KING: The- fill is just going to the front of the structure_.. Which would be in here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is this a different one or. MRS. MONTWILL: This. one is different. Proposed. grade, see it would be here, at 2 foot intervals., 16, 14, 12, 10, and 8 at the house. Then. this will remain. the same. Because this, the DEC. said that the title wetland boundaries., that can' t be touched. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: o.k. but as far.- as. We assume that you want to do something here. A trim for a view or. something. MRS. MONTWILL.: Right, right. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.R. cause you have Phragmites there: also. TRUSTEE KING: Not until. down. here'. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI-: Right- down here right? _ TRUSTEE KING: Nothings got to be touched down here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. MRS. MONTWI.LL:. Well. this. is the tall marsh... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the Phragmites_. TRUSTEE KING: Right. MRS. MONTWI.LL: Well the house has to be- in line with the road and the way this lot was, it was determining- the 50's it seems that the cliff hangs. off so the house: would already be at 161 . So I. don' t think the. weeds are: going to. be a. problem. TRUSTER KRUPSKI: Oh Wow.. MRS. MONTWILL.: You see what L'm saying? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure, sure:.. MRS. MONTWILL: Then down here is . . . we can't touch: this. the DEC said no. He said. we can clear. out some of the vegetation. in. there. as. long as.. the natural.,. most of the. natural, there' s. a big dead.. tree there.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Your allowed to trim. the trees, back. far. a. view. TRUSTER KING.: You. can clear a. path. way down to your dock.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah a path way down to the: dock is: no problem. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL:. You want to describe that in the application so - that. . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well what happens., sometimes is. . . . Board of Trustees. a April 30, 1997 MRS. MONTWILL.: Well the tough part is. it' s hard. for anyone to get in, because you would actually have: to walk in. and mark. whi.ch. trees you would take down is that it? TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: NO, no you would just say, selective clearing for- a view. And .you. could- take down whatever you needed to take down for a view. This is fine, cause- the- trees- there aren't actually protected. wetlands. So if you want to you-can- take them all out. MRS. MONTWILL: Which is pretty much. what we want to do. But up to here. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.:. Well even here., there_' s. a black. locust in. there. They aren't wetland trees, you can 'take them out also.. TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL.: I. think when AL. says take them: out, he doesn't. mean bring in the- bulldozer and. turn. them over. He means. just cut them down. . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No soil disturbance.. TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL.: I.fyouur going. to disturb the. soil, that' s a whole new ball game. Do you understand what he's trying to` say? MRS. MONTWILL: Yes,. Yes. So here is fine to the title wetland boundary, because_ it' s- heavily vegetated.... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh no that's no problem. All this is fine:. MRS. MONTWILL: So all this:. is bulldozer, and this is chainsaw. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI..: Right. MRS. MONTWILL: Fine. TRUSTEK KRUPSKI: And what we want to avoid is lawn going down t.o the creek. MRS. MONTWILL.: O.K. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI. I. mean if. you want to have a. l.ittle. lawn in. the front than that_'s. fine but. we don' t want- to see that. in turf.. MRS. MONTWILL.: Where would you like to see it? Trees and vegetation. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: Yeah you could leave. it the way it is, or you could. landscape it, it' s natural species that don' t. require spray or fertilizer. That: sort. of: thing. There' s a long list of different ornamental. plants that you. could. plant. there. If. you wanted to: landscape that., if you want to do a path, and landscape the: path or whatever, there's a large list of plants you could.. put in there. MRS. MONTWILL.: O.K. That' s fine.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You just don-It want a lawn down to the water, with fertilizing and watering and all that. MRS. MONTWILL.: We really didn' t think we could touch much here - anyway, except put the: natural vegetation. back._ Cause some of the trees must,. be 100 years old and broken and dead. TRUSTER KRUPSRI: O.K. So we will word. that in. th.e permit.., is there any other comment A motion was made. by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.. and seconded. by TRUSTEE GARRELL. to. close the heari:ng.. ALL AYES.. A motion was made: by TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI., and. seconded ley TRUSTEE. CARRELL_ to approve the. above application subject to nor more than: 20.' of turf from. the house. to the. water and. no regrading from turf to creek. Selective trimming for view is o.k. ALL AYES. 11. Docko, Inc. on behalf. of PIRATES COVE. MARINA. reguests. a Wetland. Permit for existing marina: as: f-ollows; B.ulkheading consisting of approx,. 310' of stone. and. steel.; approx. 20' ramp. consis:ting' of concrete, gravel and crushed stone.; approx. 240' of floating docks 6' wide for walking, 2 - 6' X. 32' floats and 1. - 6' X 30' float., 6 piles, a 6' X 8' landing platform leading to a 3.' X 4.0' ramp and a " Board of Trustees 10 April 30, 1997 second. 3 ' X 40' ramp at the westerly end, a 4' X 32' staging dock. attached to a 6' X 30' floating dock with a 3' ramp, a. 24' X. 48' fixed dock, ramp and a 16' X 16' float, also to add a 10' X 16' extension. to fl.oat.. . See filed for a more detailed description... All in. accordance. with. plans dated February 2, 1997. Located Pennisula._ Road,. Fishers Island. SCTM #10-3-22. . TRUSTEE.. HOLZAPFEL: This is going to be Tabled. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: I thought it was going to be, but. TRUSTEE'KING: I looked at it in March and what I looked at was replacing some poles, and that one float. I didn't look. at the rest. of. it. CLERK:' Well the shaded part is what they want to work on, but. they have nothing permitted, preexisting. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI:. Alright make- a motion then. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KING and seconded by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI to TABLE this application for reinspection in May. ALL AYES.. * 12. John Geideman on behalf of JOHN EDLER requests. a Wetland Permit to construct 2 - 40 ' groins as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleaves. Pt. Road, East Marion. SCTM. #38-2-32. *13 . ANTHONY NAPOLITANO requests a Wetland Permit to construct 1 - 40' groin as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleave-s Pt. Road, East Marion. SCTM #38-3-33. *14. FRANK TOMASINI, requests a Wetland Permit. to construct 2 - 40' groins as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleaves Pt.. Road, East- Marion. SCTM #3.8-3-34. *15. NORMAN TAYLOR requests a Wetland Permit to construct 2 - 40 ' groins as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleaves Pt. Road, East Manion. . SCTM. #38-2-35.. ****NOTE: Public Hearings # 12, 1.3, 14, & 15 are. together. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anybody here that would. like to speak in favor of the application.. MR. EDLER: The first thing to clarify the confusion at the field inspection of the operations with the DEC. In February John Geidman contacted them and they said, one application, one picture, and one set of plans. This Monday in checking out why after 5 weeks there was no contact.. It was found that it was put on the incomplete file. So now what they want. is 4 applications., 4 pictures, and. 16 sets of. plans.. Tomorrow or no. later than. Friday John. will s.end. them. in, but. Tony, the. Napolitano.'s there 13, he'll bring up the. pictures so:. that in your file, you. will. have a. copy, from each of the 4 applications.. As it. applies.. to. the: groins., and.. th.e picture from the waterside. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: Alright. thanks, from our end, just a little explanation. We require a separate: application. for each text lot.,. each separate lot. However we're looking at this as one proj-ect. MR. EDLER: Right, but you have separate: appli.cations? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, thank you.. MR. EDLER: But I mean originally it was the DEC that had told John only one, as though we're treating it as. a single.. So that is to clarify that. The pictures indicate-the- tax map information on the back. TRUSTEE: KRUPSKI: O.K. that' s great. " Board of Trustees L1 April 30, 1997 MR. EDLER: Now we had received in the. mail, in time., so that also here. We don.'t want to send the CAC. . . . Here' s the answer to your letter, that had. the questions.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Thank you. MR. EDLER: We will have more. pic.tures., as. we: go: on- TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.:. Can I read, this_ out. loud to the. rest of the board? MR. EDLER: YES.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Your response: to our letter. MR. EDLER: Well I. was going to. deal. with each of. the. plaints. and. maybe have illustrations-.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.: Oh. great.. Thank you. MR. EDLER: So this- is why, I figured you would. want the answer, we' ll give it to you in black. and white. We' ll. give it to you orally, and we will give it by a visual presentation. So the. question as to that uhit directional movement of sand, as you see that. when the winds blow from the east., obviously it blows: west.. When it blows from the west, it goes east.. When it comes from the south, it' s straight. on. The predominance. of the east; was unfortunately in the fall, and winter and the west are more towards.- the summer. When the heat and the sail are southwest. So it used to be that. there was a. balance. of hill now. But. in. recent. times there.' s been predominance of the. heat unto about the amount of the material. in. the net. The net is described here and fingered out, it' s between, or the cell between the two inlets, in Gardeners Bay Estates, and the entrance to the oyster pond.. And the best because they've been such. a void. Like: Louis even. commented, there' s not an. older amount of sand. out there., so this- figure is. based. on the. 1.5.001 . 750 out. to the. buoy, which is almost remaining. in shallow water, and no more than two inches: of sand along the bottom. I.t comes out to the. 7,000 cubic square yards. Then on 3 , what is the zone: of transport? The brake is on. It' s really a show of area, as we state. It' s mixed with rocks., clay, a. little grass:, rolling Serb., and no breaking zone, and no squish. squash, or sand splash.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Great, thank. you.. MR. EDLER: This one will show the rolling Serb, this. is. a shock., in. the midst of an autista. Now you see we don' t get break and breakers., you get them over and over, because its. shoaled, and you have the forward impact. So you can see: what looked like little waves out there, by hitting that bulkhead, and sending: up. the splash.. So you get an impact up, and impact left,. and. an. impact right, and. impact. down. We' re talking about., it' s not like having a. sand. bar., or a great amount. of. sand.. You have: a unique: situation there:.. I don't talk. from inexperience, because. I teach weather, and for safety, part of it is all wind and waves. Functioning with boats and shoals_, and how to guess. with the breakers., what the. depth is. So this. is. a. uni.que situation, with variables that: you don't normally need:. In a situation, I guess. that.' s. what contributes to the sudden erosion.., The. fact that suddenly, it doesn't s.eem: to be a grass. furtum to hold. the sand particles, as they go through the water. Now what is the: percentage of sand, the groins- will alter? Well if. we don' t build them, they will need. from the bay itself.., 900 cubic: yards.... However- if as projected in the application., we fill them-, than it would- only be 49 cubic yards. With the: assumption of about an inch, washi.ng off the top. Now the design. which. would. go: in the way that_ is simply sands_ stabilizing: gro ns:, which. should function: properly, be the same:- as- between paradise. point, and Cedar Beach where the level. in the: sand, Board of Trustees: , L2 April 30, 1997 make a nice. walking- effect.. It wouldn't be sand steel. as in some other areas,, so we can get to the: side view. Now if your working with 7000 cubic yards:, with .the: 900, then. if we- had them emptied. We would. be taking' 1.3o out of the net deal.. If we are going within full., we: are 7000th. of one percent.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI,:. Can. I stop you there?. Do you think that' s. accurate? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL:. Well I'm sure you measured the length- of the. jetty, and. the common profile now. And. j.ust. measured. how much it. would take to. fill. it up.. MR. EDLER: Yeah well the basis is that if your running, it' s going- up 4011 , and we have a. picture later back to the normal. contours_ of the. sand.. We can prove it by the. pictures. So you take a factor of. 3 . 3 times 4. Divide- it by 400, divided in half, and then divide it by 27 . Because your working with. cubic feet. Now anticipated downward this side. It' s predominance is. east to west but if we now go back to what we had in store, which was. We dropped: 40" to . 45, that was the survey on it. Then .we lost 1,083 cubic yards. And going down and. looking at the current status of the inlet to the oyster company. It. has approximately 2,000 cubic yards clogging into that low water- off right to shipyard lane. And. last- year the man. that had the bay boat in these used the ba.ckhaul and. took. out 'quite a bit. And they still piled up as you walked: down and saw the sand approximately, as I could figure the measurement, it was about 667 'cubic yards there. So the total of two years of accumulation is: almost 2600. So obviously, where our sand. disappeared with the thrift bound. to the west, and: into the entrance; or inlet., to th.e oyster company. It has:. been magnified. because, while: their have: the permit to build the bulkheads:,, therefore why are they just not- exercising who known what the: easier problem is. So it. just washes , it doesn't have the old groin. oiLt to the dolphin to stop it from getting the backfeed when the winds_ are. southwest., Then the overall objective, that was the restoral of squish squash, as some. say in, like: all the sand. splash area; so: that. it exists in 34 years., and. suddenly, it' s gone. It even lasted a while. after the no name northeast storm- of 92. Now in here, this:. shows and you can verify- that I'm standing by the bulkhead, and 'th s is in. January of 95. Now even you tall -boys, if you got down. on the each,. can even look over the bulkhead If you see where my feet are, you see a light mark that is on the. pi.11age that was the original- line where the sand was.. TRUSTEY HOLZAPFEL: What year is this again? MR.EDLER.:. , I.t' s on the. back. January 95. Now if you John., look at it consistently', this. is -the:. one:, if you look. way- at the back, of. the picture, you will have the: current. level of sand with the stone groin, that nobody has ever taken with. And if. your.: eye catches the. most inward: u.land. part of it., you see it' s consistent. with: the. light. that goes down all of the pilot. That's the natural line-.. of where the: beach. built up. TRUSTEE: KRUPSY,1: This line. is right by the .s.tringer? MR. EDLER: See it goes along, because. in the. first: year, when. Preston put. it in it was allowable. They, painted additionally with.. . .after it was pumped right to. the_ sand. line. And, all. the- jetties that werel destroyed in 92, because Preston. wanted: to- show up, higher and harder to build. the extra. strong ones:... So that`s_, a 3.4 year old bulkhead that' s still going, and: we only short.ed: up in- the back a. 3" inch fine: pi.ece_, and a new strand. So we now have. to go 17" wide: and. 5" deep of. the plan.. But I didn't know at that time it might come. Bard of Trustees B April 30, 1997 in handy as a visual constant- reference. So then if we want to look at page 2, this is to keep it short. You then see that. the whole. concept of trying to work the groins., that' s in this diagram.. There: not trying to be hoggish, but if you look, you can. see it's 36" to 40." . Your not even going to 45' that we had on the original survey, and bringing it down. at the slope_ is consistent to which the beach needs to be. So if every- thing- goes well, when it' s filled in, we should. go back to what the beach. used; to. be like- And the- best- example., I just suddenly tock. a ride in the boat-, andyouu. have. 35 year old sand- groins- all along between paradise. point yacht club: and the marines. cultured. area... The beach is nice and flat and. only a few places: where the- new bulkhead._ had to go in., they dug out.. the_ sand. but. other than that; you would. walk: a beach that doesn't trip- you. Now, with. the concept. here,, because we. used to have people waiting and walking on the beach they would go down and try to fish off the oyster pond pier. Now only at low water that they can just about get the tails.. So the concept is not with careful thinking. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well to. be: honest- with you, this board has never approved a new. groin. Part of that reasoning is because the effect . that a groin would have on. the down drift side of. it. We'd. starve sand and get a terrible erosion problem, on one side. or another. Now when we went out to look at this on the field inspection we could see that. this area is very unusual, it' s not your normal stretch. of. beach. The area to the east, that beach area, has already been severely impact. by structure to the east of that. Which, I think. was referred to in the field as wexler' s groin.. MR. EDLER: yeah., but. it' s actually Aprea' s. now. But it was built in 72 when wexler's had it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s what I.'m, referring to it as. So you. can see: how that groin has had a negative effect there. But because your properties are so differently arranged than that and because you have the oyster company on one side. of you, and. what you call the: Aprea structure on the:. other side. of you.. Some like. this might. work., it might not. You might put: it in and fill. it, and when. you have- that dr.amatic: p.icture of that wave crashing over the. bulkhead.. You might get one storm and lose every bit. of sand you put it. there. Qn. the- other hand you might have 10 years before° you get a storm coming from- the right direction. MR. EDLER: Well that' s a possibility, but. you have no choice, what chance when it impacts at the present moment, because. those of you know the problems: of the shore, the worse. erosion possibility is when a breaker breaks, it hits. something solid A 3 ' wave breaking could. knock down a whole house. Cause the water, quietly in cubic yards- might be 270,000. Magnify that by the intensity of the winds, it- will push the climate. So why these groins- ar.e: constructed at. a closer ratio, than. is acceptable. at 40' out:, and only 40' across.. Now- the- normal move for groins is 2 1/2. times. So 40, then 100 looks better, but what I believe is called. a sand splash area.,. the turbulence- is. going to be disappeared as it- wants- to go west ',or east by the fact that down in where the impact is against the bulkhead. There is. something to stop the splash within 10 or 20' of the operation. So. . what I 'm saying on the other hand or not. you cou d: lose the bulkhead... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: I think thatt.' s: because of the. uniqueness:. of the. property that' s why we' re seriously entertaining this_, instead of. just saying, no. Board of Trustees; 14 April 30, 1997 MR. EDLER: Well I. would hope- that- whoever has- the- property between Aprea' s and the- public road realizes- all the_ consideration that was_ given in. the development of that. But the real way to stabilize that whole area is to then do the same height as the structur.e.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't know, I. think. there so: set back, they would starve the sand.. They have: got a big problem there. MR.' EDLER.: They would, starve, but_ if you. go into: gardeners_ bay, I don't want to extend it too far- but, gardeners bay inlet was: the original Goldsmith. inlet., or jetties instead... That' s what is now indented., once went. out.. And was. a casual, sand skeet., .and. if you. go back in as I said, in the registrations of divisions, the: Schneider. sisters had-8 lis. there. and. that driveway that. is in.. front of Aprea' s, or wexler' s. came over the apartment .line.. There were four lots out in the water, they disappeared shortly after the gardeners- bay groin was put in. And if you. go beyond that, obviously most of you have traveled the: water, you will. the old beaches, are stabilized with periodic sand saving stabilized groins. There area few of them all. the way out. to. Dan. Park-. Then suddenly that' s accumulated 125' out from the property line.. Just like Goldsmith 3001 . I went up. there and looked. at it. I noticed-. that the: water still. trickles. out.. of Goldsmith. Inlet, the same way it did 15 years ago. The only difference is, the. 30, 40 bungalows, that was released on locust. post are no more. So with less devices-, you will eventually see something similar to what once was a good beach for all .of the inland. So. I sympathize with your 'poin:t, I'm glad someone. is realizing that- it' s. not quite the same_ as any other-. TRUSTEE_ KRUPSKL: No, it' s not. If it were I don' t think we'd be talking about it_, to be honest,- with you_.. But. it-' s. not. the same, we've other groin requests that would- be similar- to the- Goldsmith Jetty, and. those we don't want. to talk about: But this is such a unique. site, I think it would have some merit. Now this is just me speaking, not the board.. Did- you ever.- consider- in. addition to this proposal,. armory, the bluff, the. bulkhead. with_ some. sort of stone maattresses or Gabion to break the force- of: the waves... MR. EDLER:. You mean revetments:? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:. I.n addition to the groins., put in a revetment at the bulkhead toe. Just- to stabilize that toe. MR. EDLER: There. are other things, .one would be to wait a while, to try to stabilize. the groins. Put a more a.torium on using donkey rakes and bull rakes:. One beloved baymen that f:ou.ght. 2 1/2 previous years, 4 days a week, $5 a day, in accumulation of 2,000 hours. Who donkey raked every bit of that grass off that. part of .it. But prior to that there were many plans that- came- in that. never went with donkeys or bulls on foot. So if you run into other considerations, before going- with a revetment, most people,: be:li.eve that if you trench in front of: the shore; your going to steal from- the shore. The sound in., you dig a trench, as it comes in it creates a disturbance and. nature fills into fill up the shore. I would say if: you send help with the groins if they were- approved, then you. should.. safely be allowed to trench a. foot or two out from the. groin to get the sand to come in and. hold... And then get the push splash out further into. 'the groins.. TRUSTER KRUPSKI.: That-Is. an interesting proposal., it' s: not. the pumping: that material out of: the sound_, to those starved areas to build. the. beach. up, the material' s. there. MR. EDLER: The.. pumping works_, but in, other areas_,. they should. dig: trenches that they also- work.Because you can. try some. experiments., Board of Trustees L5 April 30, 1997 like working with the man in Southold. All that he is doing is move., making: a portable sand splash., turbulence area. to drop the particles that are in the sand. We had the eel grass. still, it. got 2 or. 3 feet., it was around the. Chesapeake. bay. There now using artificial plastic. grass, where it would waste. And. they put it in the bottom- which. it. falls. You put the little. baby scallops in., and put. them-- out in. the open. Or if you have baby pheasants.. andyouu. put_ them. in a. little parking lot. How long will they last? MR. NAPOLITANO: I'm # 13 Anthony Napolitano, we' re taking: this: all.. . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Even though it's, legally it has to be separate_. We're looking at it as one application.. We wouldn't approve- yours and deny the rest. MR. NAPOLITANO: Right. I just wanted to, ask. this question, because: I'm kind. of new at this. Your point of along: with the groins., putting. some kind of. . . TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: What' s done on the sound, they armor the base of the bulkhead with. stone-., and it. breaks_ the. contact when the wave hits.. MR. NAPOLITANO: I understand-. this, right. If you were to approve this, and this was to. be done according: to that plan. Under most circumstances the water would. never be- getting to the bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well you would only armor it in case of severe storm event. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It' s not going to change the level of the water.. The level of the water gets up to the bulkhead, it' s going to get up to the bulkhead. No matter what happens:. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It.' s just. going to keep that energy from scouring out at the. bulkhead, that' s all_ TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: Bulkheada. are hardened:. surfacea, and you have a. reflective energy off. that, and. that energy has to. go somewhere. What they use in the rocks to break that energy in lots. of different. directions. So it isn't just hitting in. one direction it' s spread out, and the focus of that is hitting 'in all. directions. So you don't have the scouring affect that- washes- away the sand. in_ front of the: bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It' s pretty standard on the sound. MR. NAPOLITANO: O.K. Becaus.e. I. have noticed., I'm out- here two years: next month, at this location. We were excited, we took pictures and so on and so forth.. I was very alarmed at how much we lost in two years, and it' s really not just when there's a major storm. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This- is very unusual.... MR. NAPOLITANO:I was hoping that. the cons,ideration. would. be that. since there are_ two rather large: rock. groins_ that. have:, been, there. since the 30's I believe and.. that. most. of this. project falls. in between them, will help it. to stabilize that whole area.. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: Because of. that_ it.' a not just an open stretch of beach, where we're going to put- something in. there. MR. EDLER: But. there are a lot of other techniques that create puzzlement., because the: groins also don.'t: necessarily always have to be at right angles to the shore line. In. some cases they have: tried parallel resins which is the turbulence, but if. your there, and. that picture shows it. the best, you have the star of the rolling surf.. 750 ' off because those who don't- know the channels 50' deep. I 've stood with. my son. on the bulkhead., it' s like. lying across the red. sea. Then while the east is trying to throw the water from the 30' in. And now this hurricane is on you. The pressure that has been put Board of Trustees L6 April 30, 1997 in from the Peconic bay is coming up 1001 . So that you have a wall. of water 800' off the shore line. That if it could come at you, it looks like a serge. But it' s held. cause the serge coming out, under the pressure of the deeper channel., has greater. str.ength. against. the water only coming on 30. So it' s a hard thing-, it might be leaning like this but as I said I've gone through all sorts. of things:. there.. In the. 35 years. that we have been. there:, but. the worse- was- the no: name of 92. In the summer- the hurricane came- in, I' forget the. date:. That was the big wall of. water, but it wasn't a serge coming in. It was the water only. When it gets to the. shallows. you don.'-t. have-. any big breakers,. they just- come: in with this force all of a sudden, if, that was the bulkhead., even. the- house shakes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKr: I. bet:. Well would it: make. sense: to put these on. an angle than, instead of putting them, perpendicular.. We've seen them- in different places, at an angle to. try and break that, coming more out of the east. MR. EDLER: Well the. way Geidman did. it, but in figuring the angles. in would have to be. . . see when we first started, we were the first one to put in a good bulkhead. And I tried to persuade., after this next one was destroyed, to hold. to the angle we had built. But you see they started. to bend_ in Tomasini and then, but if you had held the bulkheads. in a. straight line. We would have been making them: consistent on the natural shore line.. It would create less. of a problem. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, I don' t mean the bulkhead. I mean the jetti.es.. If you put the jetties instead of perpendicular to the shore line, if you put them parallel to the property lines. Wouldn't that give you greater protection? MR. EDLER: Well in a sense., when they tilt it would be, where ours are, they would be pointing right above, when John put. them in, he put on a right angle. I agree with you it' s more to the right angle. of the property, but I 'm also saying that the: way that the sand: throws, it creates a turbulence., when it comes off. a tail and. bounces. at the. notch. The: stone sets. it. off, but then there' s even a slight. bend on Tony' s to which you don't have: the normal straight on. So each one is going to have to be adjusted, with the consideration of that impact. But I concur what your saying, that the angling has to be like. . . more consistent-. But now shows to be the shore line. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI': O.K. The board have any comment? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: The comment I mean to is, I think we really want to hear what the department of state and DEC. . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah, we wouldn.'t give. you a permit tonight:, but we' re serious_, I think. I can speak for the board., we' re seriously looking at this though.. We're not just. . . MR. EDLER_: No well. I seriously, I. wouldn.'t. have brought it up if. I. didn't. think. i.t was a sound. case for it. Because. there are. too many people that are going to fli.m flam. you to work out a way. So that' s why, for a moment, I was: aggravated. at you. When. you. made the comment. that. there was another case that someone.. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I stood corrected, it is. MR. EDLER: I mean it' s nasty, but that.'s why we only want what:'s happening to, that' s- why I wanted. to. show, to have: John put it on. the: survey. Then we could. intend to start: it. 45' back, we didn.'t go up there. We were going: to get extra. Land., see that' s why I would base: it on the water. The person inland.,, they got there. lot., then they take 10 to 1.5' along the road., and then 10 or 15' along the side:. So Board of Trustees. E7 April 30, 1997 suddenly a 10,0001 lot, is 15,Oa0' . On the water we- don't have any in space cause the curds usually rob you of your land. And then- what- is, yours on the other ,side they say you 'have to kiss it away. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.: Well I don't know we. went to Cutchogue:,. and a fellow was complaining- because it was filling: in. and. he was gaining. MR. EDLER: O.K Thank You. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: So we're going: to Table this. then, overall_ we.' re not_ going to vote on this. tonight:. We're going to contact the Department of State., and the. DEC and see what they have to say about this.. Is_ there. anyone_ else who would. like to speak on this_, in favor- or against? MR. MUTER: I'm one of the. town' s neighbors, Bob Muier.. We use the. public beach, the one that.' s. been eroded. We just hope that whatever is done will help protect that- also. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: O.K. Thank you. Now suppose the state comes through and says, you need an extra one? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That' s what we're saying in terms of what you just said. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: About the public beach. MR. EDLER: You mean if on Taylor? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: Yeah. MR. EDLER: If you look at the way that it' s. written up there, on Taylor' s technically on the groin there's only one. But on the request, and all the discussions you have two. You have two for Tomasini, you have one for Tony, and you have two for me. That actually is only on the groin. One for Taylor, two for Tomasini,. one for Tony. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL: Stop, are there. supposed. to be two on Taylor? MR. EDLER: Well the diagram only calls. for- one. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well suppose the state looks at it and says it would be effective and to protect the public- beach there, you should use two.. MR. EDLER: Well. nobody is going to argue if. the state says put another one in. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. That-' s just my point-, cause- this is. not an. exact size. Someone's got to make a decision based: on experience: andbased on what they think is going to work. There' s no way of telling until they are built. MR. EDLER: Well I hope the one' s that are saying it works, are better than the one' s that made the decision in Westhampton. TRUSTEE KRUPSKT: Well hopefully they learned from that. That' s what we' re going on. We're learning too. We've been looking at these- for a. quite a while: TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL.: Taylor' s permit. says that he-Is asking f.or two.. MR. EDLER: On the actual permit that you have? Alright well then. John Geidman read it. so it' s already, covered.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: No he:'s. only showing one... CLERK: His descriptions are different than the survey. MR. EDLER.: Well it' s here some where- I. read- it. Where did two come: from? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.k. What we're suggesting,- Mr. Muier's comment: is. that one of the beginning. of Taylors might-protect- that public beach._ to that- side.. Do you know what I'm saying:? That' s why I'm just-- trying- to find out, does he want- two- on his property or does he just. want- one? CLERK: I'm sorry, I think he wants one, that. was. my mistake-.. `. Board of Trustees ' 'L8 April 30, 1997 MR.. EDLER: We' re trying to improve that whole section of beach., because. you see: how sudden the change was.. TRUSTEE HaLZAPFEL_: You- know what we're saying now? MR. EDLER: Yes, L appreciate. that,. but I also think that, I know you have difficulty with,, Like the grandfathers Aprea., 501 . Now he- still has 50' but it's not repaired. Now I. know it's a tuffy- but when. it' s a non repairable lawn,- should it not be pulled out., because_. I think even. the remains.. are adding to the starvation that! s. full, of that. I was talking with the Army Corp. of Engineers, they are upset about groins being done. in a. navigable. area. But it' s. right. near the entrance- to. the. inlet,. some. people: come. with boats_ maybe- to the edge.. of it, but we have and that's for because- they running into theme becaus they are under water. But I. take into consideration. to also add. groins. to the west, is somehow stating that the: one:'s tha.t. are no longer grandfathers and no longer repairable should be taken out. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: L. don't know if. we could- specify that it be.. removed, because that.' s something that we should.'ask the state. They would be in a strong position to have them remove them. I don't think they- gave permission to leave- that. in it' s entirety either. MR. EDLER: No but it' s still. there, that' & where= we' r.e getting on the fact that if the groin is. bad, why do they- keep allowing it there. When you know it-' s harmful, if it' s harmful. in the first place it should be immediately removed.. So there' s. 3, or. 4 of them that when, we don't have the picture for, I took some pictures, they were all like skeletons. But when they go under water, they still create turbulences that can not allow the flow of the 'sand to come into- the public beach. area. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI-: Now that you said that I remember. that. I_t makes. sense to have thei state-. The: state, would be:, since they own the land, they would be in. the position to make them remove that. We're not in that strong of a .position, but they are. MR. MUIER: I don.' t.. think that last groin the one: to the west, was. part of the: areas that he wanted- to reconstruct. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But. I think. we made him come: in for everything. TRUSTEE. HaLZAPFEL.: We shortened the one:, this way. Then the other one: is angled out I think. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I thought we shortened: the longest one. TRUSTEE HQLZAPFEL:. Ri.ght. and that. was that one. But the other angled one is the one that starting to deteriorate and starting to- become non functional. MR. EDLER.: But ori.gianlly it was confusing when. we. were there, Bob. was with me. For a while- you thought: it belonged- to the property- which was- not .Aprea' s, subsequent: to the f.i.eld. trip, it was discovered. that it. was all on. the Aprea survey. That would, be part- of maybe the: confusion: as: to- who owns that particular- groin. It's: still, creating. a skele.tal_. form:. TRUSTEE: KRUPSKI:.:. That's. true:, that' s. true:.. That`a a good, point.. MR. EDLER: And even like today; it' s coming- out. of the: southwest; and, you can. see that ther.e's: more. discoloration- to the: water out towards. the. buoy, indicating there' s more sand there:, than where we have all of the stones. So obviously the same: thing as Goldsmith, it' s pulling ou.t. the sands there, and there-la no chance: of it coming back in to replenish that. beach..- So. I always: hoped that somehow,. through a strange act of god, it doesn-I-t hit us but it softens- gardeners bay estates... Board of Trustees 19 April 30, 1997 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s a good point, I ' ll ask the state that.. I. was contacted tonight., just as I. was. getting ready for the meeting. Peggy Dickerson, who wants. to do a, some students are contacting- me,. they work with Cornell Cooperative Extension- on ee grass_ planting;- this: is about beach grass, but. they' re talking about. the eel. grass planting. And. I told. them to call Paul Stoutenberg, and Peter. Wenzcel, who would. know good sites- to plant eel grass_. I 'm not familiar enough with the bay bottom enough to say, you know this. is. a good spot., that' s. .a good spot.. But that would be a good candidate. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You might want to contact.. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI No. I will. call. O.K. thanks. I' ll call Peggy on that. MR. EDLER: We had. some eel grass_, then all of a sudden it starting to disappear.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL..: You said that' s within the last 3 or. 4 years? MR. EDLER: Well it' s even less than that, and I think. an attitude has to be taken.. TRUS.TEE. HOLZAPFEL.: No, I understand. what you. were saying the other day. MR. EDLER: About some sort of more atorium, I mean California' s a great offense to do any, if. it helps the eel. grass., because once it goes, you've taken away natures filtration and stopping the system-. We go around and. used to see all the eel grasses., and I look in the boat, and now it' s just bare bottom. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : No that' s a good candidate because: it' s a place where. it will grow. As opposed. to putting. it somewhere- where it never grew anyway, and- it' s never going to grow no matter: what they plant. MR. EDLER.: Well it has a certainn nutrient factor in the ground from- so many years the- oyster. company was. out there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well there' s a lot of environmental. factors that makes it want to grow there. MR. MUIER: Well. how long- has_ all. those bulkheads. been. there? When were they put in historically? MR. EDLER: The one with the tall. groin: west, with Tony, went in the 601s, near the end of 61. With wexler' s. MR. MUIER: And what did the shoreline look like before the bulkhead? MR. EDLER: The shoreline ran in. a straight line,. 45' out from the property line, it had, when. we built the bulkhead, imagine that you had a flat beach that went about.. 30' or more feet then you started to slope down. In mean high it' s 45' up, I could keep a regular baymen boat on roll. on. the beach..: Even 10' out from the bulkhead,, still up. on high water, and. the water. never even came near it. And then. about Tomasinidrags:. his. feet, and that. one never went. in but the one hidden in the ground is the. one:. that Tony' s. There is a whole- return that- goes- almost- to the house. And then.. Tomasini.. would not cooperage., and there was a return. put: into the, ground, and. it almost goes to Tomasini.' shouse.. It goes around.. the: bend. and_ up onto the road.. But_ Bob. will tell. you. that the- road- ends- at the beach. The. water side of Taylor' s. MR. MUIER: The bulkhead ruing had quite_ an. effect. on the beach. didn' t it., plus. or minus... I think the big thing- was wexler bought- the property and he widened the entrance: into gardeners bay. He volunteer.ed. to pay for the extra extension., whi.ch I don' t know, 50' or something, John? MR. EDLER: I think it was: even longer than: that.. I think at the. time that was even in the 701s, I think. it was that he said he. was. Board of Trustees ?0 April 30, 1997 extending, cut it out 'and dredge it out, make it wider., and at the same time put in all. fixed groin. I MR. MUIER: It' s a set point, the deterioration of the beach.. It' s the Army Corp. of engineers-. decision.. It' s a 7 point deterioration. from the beach. It' s much further out., than any of the other short. shore areas in the swirling. Primarily from the: gardeners. bay one:,. but then. aggravated by wexlers other one: in front of thin house: TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI.:. Yes I. think we came: to that conclusion when. we. were up there., a year or so ago. But that was basically. . . MR. EDLER: But- we- had the bulkheads: and. they never. changed:, even after being put in they had. a nice comfortable shore... One where my grandson, only 7 years ago, he was about 3.5 feet. out with. his_. friend, Collin Thornhill, on the line. So ;that you always had, even after all the bulkhead., you had this.. splash.. It would. come up maybe and barricade, and. then slowly it would. build` up, because each time- it would come and build it's little mound. And the next time- a little more. The mounds would still would keep going till they fall right back to 45' out. So the bulkheads were moved back so the splash area and the serge could last and hit a certain point as you see from: by my barn. Even in the last. week., not the last one, but the previous. one, in. the middle of Tony's: it made . a 7" drought:, just in the modern storm because of the impact:, as.'John was saying, there' s no way we can move the droughts down, once they put them up The impact is. descending in all directions, but the wind. is. always going to drive. it from east to west. Till. you get to that one stone jetty, where you see the silhouette: that it. still gathers the same,. on. that natural. .. . TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI:. I. think. we should.. try to close: this.. out. You. might, if the state- approves- something like. this, they might- approve something that., and this. is. based 6n. past experience on the sound... Something that' s a little bit different in configuration as_ far as the angle of the jetties. It might� be a different number, one more or one less. They might require: you. to armor it with- stone also. That' s from our experience, what they required. on the sound.... So just bare: that in mind.. Maybe I shouldn't go; any further- then: that.:. We usually don.' t, when they make suggestions like that the board is usually not. inclined to disagree with them andlsay no, it should be one more or one less. This speck or that speckl. It's usually the concept that's being agreed on. The specifics as far as,. what size boulders to armor it with or something, if they' re. ging to make that decision, we' re not going to quiver over that. MR. EDLER: I. wouldn't quiver in. my; limited experience- with what. I simply believe they could- do. if I. had. a. different. thought.,. I'm going-- to tell them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I. don't- blame: you. . L'm just. saying that that-Is been. our experience on the sound., that_' s how they operate so.. TRUSTEE GARRELL:. Not really the sound. or the bay, we- attend all the time, hearings on structures and-beach along the. entire. US coast, and people. are taking a very different'' view, towards. groins-, bulkheading now, than they did 15., even. 10, 15 ;years: ago-. The studies. today- indicate that bulkheading today is-! generally, a mistake and. it has.. to be. The grades.. count for a great deal, the:_ hardened. structures cause more trouble than. they- are worth., and that's the: generalization. But the point is the state and. the: peopl.e: work. on. these things.. They do more than textbooks.... They study they go by experience we try to learn. as much as we: can. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKIv.: It' s. possible. we can' t promise any thing, but. ,I I Board of Trustees' 21 April 30, 1997 MR. EDLER: We' re not. saying no to anything they say, I think. that_ there are some wise- ones along the way, in some cases. There' s some:. reason why the waters all take on that. particular spot.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's. what, we always say mother nature bats- last.. TRUSTEE KING.:: Were at the. top: of the batting: order.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL::. I think. we' 1.1 have: to come- back- to it., we' ll. have. another round.. TRUSTEE. KRUP.SKI: Can I. have a motion. to recess: the hearing?. A motion was made. by TRUSTEE:,HOLZAPFEL. and. seconded. by TRUSTEE.: GARRELL. to recess the hearing till trustees heres- from the state:. Aprea should. be removed from ask the state if nonfunctional groins.. are to be removed. Ask for Fred Andrea.' s to comment in writing.. ALL AYES. 16.Docko, Inc. on. behalf of REYNOLDS DU PONT requests a Wetland Permit to construct 4' X 50' fixed timber pier, a 3' X 14' hinged ramp, and an 8' X 20' float to be secured to four pilings and install six tie-off pilings.. Located Peninsula. Ave. , Fishers Island.. SCTM. #10-3-19. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.:. Jim you looked at this? TRUSTEE KING: Yup! Docked. through the:: whole area... TRUSTER KRUPSKI: O.K.. TRUSTEE: KING: Everything's bigger- on Fisher's Island. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright, do I have a motion to close the hearing. A motion was made: by TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL:. and. seconded by TRUSTER GARRELL. to close- the hearing. ALL AYES. A. motion. was. made. by TRUSTEE_ KING and. seconded by TRUSTEE; HOLZAPFEL_ to approver the above. application as. described.. ALL AYES'.. V. RESOLUTIONS: 1. DANIEL. LOUIS of Cornell- CooperativeExtension requests_ permission to use a mechanical. harvester- to- take bottom- samples_ from:: various creeks in town waters the: bay. A. motion was made by TRUSTEk HOLZAPFEL.. and seconded by TRUSTEK. KING: to approve the above request, TRUSTEE;. HOLZAPFEL will call to find out when and where. ALL AYES. VI. MOORINGS: 1. FRANK LYNN requests_ a. mooring: in Town. Creek in front of his- house, tackle to, be used is of cancelled mooring- 96.0, for a 22' sail- boat. A motion was made, by TRUSTEE:_ KRUPSKI and seconded. by TRUSTEE; HOLZAPFEL to approve: the above application. as. described. ALL. AYES_. 2. JOSEPH RASO requests stake. #4 at. the. end. of So. Harbor Rd, Richmond Creek for a 12' Sunfish- A motion was made: by TRUSTER KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE: HOLZAPFEL.. to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES_. 3. HERBERT ERNEST requests stake #6 at the. end of So. Harbor Rd, Richmond Creek for a 16 ' sail boat. A motion. was. made- by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL. to approve the: above application. as. described:._ ALL AYES_. Board of Trustees 22 April 30, 1997 4. PETER WALKER, requests a mooring in Little Creek for a. 2.2' Aquasport_ with a 175 lb mushroom-. Access: Public R..O.W. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKZ and.. seconded. by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL. to. approve the above mooring as. descr.ibed, with subject to For Aft. 5. KEVIN CANDE requests. a mooring. in Ha11..' s Creek for a. 28' Bertram with a 200 lb mushroom. Access:: Own property. A motion was by TRUSTEE.. HOLZAPFEL. and seconded. by. TRUSTEE: KINO to Table the above application, due to soundings fronylocation- to mouth. of creek at low water. ALL. AYES.. 6. KATHY BECKER requests a mooring in Narrow River for a 3.0' sail boat with 2501b mushroom. Access;: Public.. A motion was made by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL and. seconded by TRUSTEE KING. to approve the above mooring as described.. ALL AYES. 7 JOE MELLY requests a mooring in Little Creek for. a 22' Columbia with a 1501b mushroom. Access: Public R.O.W. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL to approve the above mooring-, subject to For & Aft. ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNED.. AT 9: 00 P.M. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED BY DARLENE M. HU19BARD, CLERK RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK DATE 61 J31'9 7 HOUR a - y Town Clerk, Town of out old