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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-10/29/1997 Albert J. Krupski,President =•Z• �Gy Town Hall John Holzapfel, Vice President c 53095 Main Road g;Jim, Kin P.O. Box 1179 Martin H. Garrell ,y �� Southold, New York 11971 Peter Wenczel ��j �`�� Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES OCTOBER 29 , 1997 PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, President John Holzapfel, Vice-President Peter Wenczel, Trustee James King, Trustee Martin Garrell, Trustee Diane Herbert, Clerk CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 at. 12 noon TRUSTEE GARRELL approved, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 at 7:00 p.m. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL approved, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES APPROVE INUTES: Approve minutes of September 24, 1997 Regular Meeting.. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL approved, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES I . MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for September 1997 : A .check for 3 ,680.25 was forwarded to the Supervisor' s Office for the General Fund. II . AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: 1. Costello Marine on behalf of NEIL SIMON requests an Amendment to Permit #359 to change an existing "T" dock configuration to an "L" configuration using existing 6' X 16, float and 1 new 6' X 16' float secured with 3- 2 pile dolphins. 1. Located: 60 Harbor Lights Drive, Southold. SCTM #71-2-11. 3 TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to table the application until more information is given and the Board inspects again, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES r Board of Trustees 2 C_._-ober 29, 1997 2 . J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of KENNETH EDWARDS requests an. Amendment to Permit #3968 to construct a 7 ' X 25' addition onto the seaward end of existing fixed dock.. Located: West Harbor, The Gloaming, Fishers Island. SCTM. #10-9-11 TRUSTEE KING moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES. 3 . En- Consultants Inc. , on behalf of WUNNEWETA POND ASSOCIATION requests a second and last one-year extension allong the channel to be dredged, to expire January 1999. Located: Bridge Lane, Cutchogue. SCTM #118-1-11 TRUSTEE KING moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES. 4. En-Consultants Inc. on behalf of JOAN TECHET & DEBORAH PENNY. request an Amendment of Permit #4803 to move the dock westward 8 feet as opposed to the platform being moved 2 feet. Located: Sailors Needle Lane, Salt Lake Village, Mattituck. SCTM #144-5-26 & 144-5-11 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to table the application until Board inspects again, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 5. JACQUELINE ZENESKI requests a Waiver to extend the deck to the end of the house and grade yard to the buffer zone. Located: 2750 Glenn Road, Southold. SCTM #78-2-42 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL -moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded, TRUSTEE WENCZEL abstained. 6. Pat Moore on ,behalf of .ARTHUR WEINBERG requests a Transfer of Permit #1952 from 'Anthony Cilluffo to Arthur Weinberg for catwalk, ramp and florat. Located: 470 Haywaters Drive, Cutchogue. SCTM #104-5-p/o 1 & 21 ' TRUSTEE WENCZEL approved, TRUSTEE CARRELL, seconded. ALL AYES 7. Thomas Ludlow on behalf of JOSEPH BENDOSKI requests a Waiver for additions and renovations to a single family dwelling which include: a two story addition, a covered front porch, a one story addition and a wood deck. Located: 3060 Park Avenue, Mattituck. SCTM #123-8-19 TRUSTEE KING, approved with condition that they place a 15 ' non-turf buffer landward of bulkhead, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 8. Proper-T Services on behalf of ANDREAS PALIOURIS for a second and last one year extension to permit #4383 to construct a single family dwelling. Permit to expire October 1998. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI approved, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES. 9. Jon C. Kerbs on behalf of LEWIS EDSON & CONNIE KLAPPER requests a Waiver for maintenance work for existing road. Located. Rene's Road, "Indian Woods", Southold. SCTM #54-6-4.2 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve as per specifications. in file, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded, TRUSTEE WENCZEL. voted Nay. Board of Trustees 3 C�__ober 29, 1997 10. LEO OLSEN requests a Waiver to repair an existing 12' X 14' existing shed. Located: 3590 Main Road, Greenport, SCTM. #35-4-28.12 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE CARRELL seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to go off the regular meeting and go on to the Public Hearings, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES II. PUBLIC NOTIES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk' s Bulleting Board for review. IV. HEARINS• THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDIANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM-THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT- CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF: FIVE ( 5)..MINUTES OR LESS, IF POSSIBLE 1. Costello Marine on behalf of ARTHUR BUJNOWSKI requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing 100' of bulkhead and install new bulkhead, replace 30' return and. add 40' to this return and backfill with. 20 c.y. of clean fill. Located: 1365 Waters Edge Way, .Southold. SCTM #88-5-69 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor or against this application? JOHN COSTELLO: I'm with Costello Marine Contracting. I 'm here for ARTHUR BUJNOWSKI and. .any questions that the Board may have I ' ll certainlly be glad to answer them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to speak on behalf of the application or against it? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE GARRELL.: Second. . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Peter would you like to make a motion? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I' ll make a motion to approve the application of COSTELLO MARINE on behalf of ARTHUR BUJNOWSKI to remove the existing 100' of bulkhead, install new bulkhead, replace a 30, return, add 40' on this return and back fill with 20 c.y. of clean fill. This approval is pending the submission of the engineers drawing with the engineers stamp on it and a 20' non-turfed buffer between the lawn area and the bulkhead. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KING: All in favor. ALL AYES 2. . John Geideman on behalf of LAURA CLEMPNER requests a Wetland Permit to raise existing bulkhead 2-5' above the beach and extend the existing bulkhead 36' along property line with a 15' Board of Trustees 4 C aber 29, 1997 return. Located: 1240 Inlet Lane, 450' north of Manhasset Ave. , Greenport. SCTM #36-2-24 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a motion to close. the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: So moved. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I' ll make a motion we approved the application of LAURA CLEMPNER based on the revised plan. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES. 3. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of FRANK A. BONSEL, JR. requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 18' set of wood steps leading to a 6 ' X 95' fixed dock elev. a min. of 3 1/2' above grade of marsh, a 4' X 16' ramp and an 8' X 30' float. Located: The Anchorage, Equestrian Ave. , Fishers Island. SCTM #9-3-13.2 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak for the application? GLENN JUST: I think the Board should note that upon the inspection , site with TRUSTEE KING, a lot of the dimenisions were reduced. We are now asking for 4' X 95' fixed dock, 4' X 16' ramp ' and a 8' X 10' float. The surveys which are there. . . . . . . . . and also just to let you know we relocated the location. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have no objection if we approve that of the revised plans? GLENN: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone else like to speak for this application? Do I have a motion to .close the hearing? TRUSTEE WENCZEL.: So move. TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES TRUSTEE KING: I' ll make a motion to approve this application for FRANK A. BONSEL., JR. based on new modification of plans. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI All in favor? ALL AYES 4. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of JOHN HELLIER requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing 8' X 36' dock and existing 3 ' X 12' ramp, and construct an 8' X 16' extension onto the seaward end of existing 8' X 26' fixed dock, install a 4' X 12 ' ramp and an 81 'X 20' float. to relocate 2 fender piles. Located: Hedge Street, Fishers Island. SCTM #10-7-20 TRUSTEE .KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? GLENN: If the. board has any questions on the application I' ll be glad to answer them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? TRUSTEE KING: Yes I looked at it and it sounds confusing, but it' s basically a reconfiguration of the same size as it started out. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So move. TRUSTEE KING: Second TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES Board of Trustees. 5 C�,aber 29, 1997 i TRUSTEE KING: I ' ll make a motion to approve the application of JOHN HELLIER and reconfiguration of the existing dock and floats. TRUSTEE .HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 5. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of THOMAS COFFIN requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct within 18' 100' of timber bulkhead and backfill with 10 c.y. of clean sand. Located: 305 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport. SCTM #35-4-28.25 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to. speak in favor or against this application? GLENN: Any questions from the board on this application I' ll ,be glad to answer. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does he recommend his approval? TRUSTEE GARRELL: I inspected it today and it seemed pretty straight forward. No problem. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comments? TRUSTEE GARRELL: Just that I would add the stipulations for a. . .or recommend a 10' non turf-buffer attached to the bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE GARRELL.: So move TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES CLERK DIANE: .He has a permit for the dock. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I ' ll recommend the approval of the Wetland permit for THOMAS COFFIN and reconstruct within 18" of timber bulkhead and backfill with the stipulation . that there be a 10' non-turf buffer. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI : All in favor? All AYES 6. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of ROBINS ISLAND PRESERVATION CORP. requests. a Wetland Permit to install 6,000+/-' of 3 1/4" inert submarine cable between New Suffolk and Robins Island at a depth of 5+/-' below bay bottom. The project shall begin at LILCO specified meter cabinet at First Street landward of the tidal wetlands boundary. Located: Foot of First Street, New Suffolk. SCTM #13473-5 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? GLENN: If there are any questions the board may have I will answer them, and also PETER DREXLER who is the manager of ROBINS ISLAND would like to comment as well if there are any questions. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does the Board have any comment? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The owner just asked me the other day about the ownership of the land. It' s hard to give a permit to. . . . . . GLENN JUST: I spoke to ROBINS ISLAND counsel KEVIN WALL. He can' t be here tonight because his wife is due to have her first child. He is in the process of (Changing tape, missed some wording) TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: None of those properties are in private ownership? GLENN JUST: Any party who has an interest in utilizing the property will actually get a written notice. Board of Trustees 6 G-�-ober 29, 1997 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I had heard one of them might have been privately owned. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Generally the way we have been doing this is that first permission is given to the applicant from who ever owns the bottom and in this case New York State, and then we' ll grant the permit. I' ll make a motion to recess the public hearing until November 19th. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 7. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of DONALD & HARRIET IADANZA requests a Wetland & Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a 130+/-' timber bulkhead along toe of bank and to backfill structure with 35+/-c.y. of clean sand trucked in from upland source, and armor with existing boulders. Located: 855 Soundview Road, Orient. SCTM #15-3-11.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? GLENN JUST: If the board has any questions I would gladly answer them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone in favor or against the application? Does the Board have any comments.? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: One comment. This is when we were out there looking at it. It appeared that they were going to use the boulders that are there to armor. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I take that 'you don't have DEC approval? GLENN JUST: No approval as of yet. TRUSTEE. WENCZEL.: We much prefer you left the boulders where they are and added more. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment for or against the application? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: So moved. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I ' ll make a motion that we approve the application of DONALD .AND HARRIET IADANZA to construct 130+/- timber bulkhead along the toe of the bank backfill with 35 c.y. of clean sand trucked in from upland source. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: They' re need to armor it. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES 8. En-Consultants Inc. , on behalf of ARTHUR BURNS requests a Wetland Permit to construct approx. 200 l.f. of timber retaining wall, construct 2- 20+/ ' of angled returns to be armored with 2-3 ton armor stone on east & west sides of property, 200 c.y. of clean and will be trucked in and remove existing remnants of old dilapidated bulkhead. Located: 3450 private Road #13, Mattituck. SCTM #105-1-4 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This application will be tabled and recessed until next month. TRUSTEE KING: It that a motion? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES Board of Trustees 7 G....ober 29, 1997 9. En-Consultants Inc. , on behalf of JANE ROSS & JON SCHRIBER request a Wetland Permit to construct a fixed timber dock consisting of a 4' X 80' catwalk, a 4' X 12' ramp and a 6' X 20 ' float secured. by 2-8" pilings. Located: 1295 Old Harbor Road, New Suffolk. SCTM #117-3-10 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? ROB HERMANN: I 'm here on behalf of JANE ROSS & JON SCHRIBER. As the Board knows some property down towards the end of Old Harbor Road, the property that is in between an old yacht club which has a significant dock in front of it and an adjacent property with a similar dock. The dock that is being proposed is designed to be almost exactly nature to the dock adjacent to it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The dock to the east, you mean. ROB HERMANN: Correct. Not the Yacht Club dock. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else here who would. like to comment on the application in favor of or. against? What does the Board think? TRUSTEE GARRELL: On the Yacht Club side is there. . . . .How is that in terms of construction? Are you going to do anything with that or add on -to the return? ROB HERMANN: It will be what was approved last month as a 23 ' return that is existing; because of the flooding up on Old Harbor Road, they' re going to extend about 241 .to that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI': Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE .HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would someone like to make. a motion? TRUSTEE GARRELL: I' ll make a motion to approve. the application of En-Consultants on behalf JANE ROSS & JON SCHRIBER for a Wetland Permit for a fixed timber dock, catwalk ramp and float on Old Harbor Road, New Suffolk. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 10. WILLIAM PAPPAS requests a Wetland Permit for a split rail fence around one property, a 7 ' X 10 ' deck, a 3 ' X 17 ' ramp, a 6' X 20' float, 7- 8" piles, a storage shed and 6" X 6" walmanized ties to border driveway on waterfront property. Located: 85 Beverly Road, Southold. SCTM #52-2-14 & 15 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of or against .the application? BILL PROVENTURE: I own the. residency just to the north and east of MR. PAPPAS' S property. We both have access to Beverly Road. While I can appreciate any homeowners wish to gratify himself and enjoy the best. . . . . . . . .and so doing he attempted to disturb my access by putting up the fence number one, a 8' X 8' series of . . . . . He' s also put up a split rail fence beyond what I believe is his property. TRUSTEE- KRUPSKI: To which property has he put it beyond? Board of Trustees 8 Gc_ober 29, 1997 . BILL PROVENTURE: This would be to the east of the property line. I 've attempted to speak to MR. PAPPAS. While I hold no personal animosity towards the gentleman, I tried to revolve it on a neighborly basis unsuccessfully. I have gone to the Board, and these barriers remain. I haven' t established right to. . . . .What I am astounded at to answers is the fact that this gentlemen confounds me by absolute disregard. . . .because what he is doing . is applying after the fact, on these structures and fences. He is asking me for something that already exist. And it would be my wish when you consider his application, that you do something with the thought to examining everything so carefully that he has already put into the ground, because I think that he violated some serious rules. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You' re talking about the. structure, the fence and the curbing that was put in what was quoted here on the survey of Beverly Road. Could you come up here so I can make it clear exactly the extent of what you are objecting to? Do you have any other objections, to anything else, the deck, or . the ramp? In other words this structure here. He is also applying for a storage shed and he applied. for piles. BILL PROVENTURE: Has he told the Board what the purpose of those pilings are? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They have been there for quite some time. BILL PROVENTURE: I also would ask the Board to consider pulling back these fences because it. doesn' t affect me as much as other people entering and leaving the area. If he backed up this fence both in southerly and westerly direction it would give the traffic a little more room to access which ever properties they own. What he has done is he has come up right to the edge of the road. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He doesn' t have to do that. MR. PAPPAS: This is marked as a private road. My property includes the private road. I have complete and total ownership of the private road as well as everything where my house is. When the subdivision was made approximately 45 years ago the people of the same subdivision some of them accessed the road for utility purposes. It does not say that they have access to . this particular water although I never denied them and I don' t have intentions of denying them access to the water. They've been using it with my -blessing and. with my help, but I do own the road. Under this portion of the road Mr. Chairman, are my pools, I have five cesspools, a septic tank that was designed and approved when I built my house- by the Suffolk County Board of Health. The Building Department Town of Southold acknowledges that this is my property. One of the reasons why it was paved fully and the blacktop fully maintained is because people were using it there where two homes that were built on each side of this private road, trucks were coming in, people parking and doing all sorts of things wrong what used to be called a road. Three of my covers were damaged. and I replaced them this past year and I decided to fence this with particular walmanized ties, put bluestone and put grass on the other part of the private road. People have access. . . . . . All the fence that you see that the gentlemen spoke about is within my property, not Board of Trustees 9 G,�;,ober 29, 1997 one inch. outside my property. .They think because it is a private road because I have ROW that they can drive down there, that they get ownership, that they never offer to maintain and I never asked them to maintain it, and I will never ask them in access. Those pilings that he mentioned at the end of the road initially were . concreted pilings with chain across to stop the people from driving into the water. By people driving there those things were deteriorated and were hit a few times. It was .troubling concrete and I uplifted and I replaced it with walmanized pilings and I put temporary chain which hooks and unhooks for their pleasure for the access to the water. It was not meant to try to block them off permanently and there still would be access, there would always be access, the access over to the road has been deeded to them, but the property is' mine, I know it and it is secured by the Title Company and my pools are under the driveway and I don' t like to have them damaged again. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can I see a copy of your deed? This is a ROW'S issue and I don' t know if we can resolve this tonight. It . appears to us and we' re all familiar with different ROWS, I have in fact own one, but I wouldn't be able to block that off that way either. that people use on my property. MR. PAPPAS: That' s not blocked off. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we are going .to give it to the Town Attorney and we' re going to get her opinion as to what exactly the rites are, some rite of ways are only for walking, some are. for general use for anything, so we are going to take more. comments tonight, but we' re not going to make a decision on this tonight without legal counsel. MR. PAPPAS: . This slip of dock in particular. . . . the gentlemen is right, I built that road without proper permits. That is why I am here tonight. However, there is a small dock that he mentioned that they are using, that permit was never taken for that particular dock and I believe that they should be told to go and obtain a permit. My dock and everything was built at least 18 years ago I wasn't aware that, I needed a permit, and I apologize for that. Do you need a copy of this? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes we definitely need that and if 'you could provide us with any information and we can show our Town Attorney. MR. PAPPAS: All the neighbors have a copy of the same deed. . GLORIA PRAETZ: I live on the corner of North Road and Beverly Road, and I have lived there for 24 years permanently, year round. All of the sudden I have been friendly with MR. PAPPAS, they come along and are resurfacing the road, that they own the road and I have a copy of my deed here where it says that I am suppose to be entitled to 10' of that road, it' s a 20' road, he says I can only have 5. This is my deed and it says here together with the rights of pass and repass for all ordinary purposes all along Beverly Road. adjacent to the premises to the west on the North .Road to Arshamomaque Pond this is where the road goes it' s southerly 10' of the premises are subject to the rites of others to pass and repass there on for ordinary purposes the rite to pass and repass over Beverly Road are subject to the rites others serve adjoin and adjacent premises Board of Trustees 10 -tober 29, 1997 of public utilities. Now this has always been a road. He wanted to make it pretty just for himself. This has been resurfaced grass that has been planted there . . . . . . . . . .What is he going to put up' there now? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He needs our approval. He received a violation because he (to much discussing) In what he has, he has. to get our approval GLORIA PRAETZ: How can he dig up a road and put cesspools under a road? I cannot understand this.. I just don't understand. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't either. GLORIA PRAETZ: How can anybody do that. And then not .only that you can' t even see the road. TRUSTEE GARRELL: It' s not uncommon in the Town of Southold to find roads where neighbors have access, but the access that they have is pedestrian access and in that case we often find at some point that the owner comes in and puts up a mark and all of a sudden accesses are block, except pedestrian access. The only one who can determine what kind of access that really is; is an Attorney. From the deeds. . . .and that is why we are going to table it tonight and go back to our Town Attorney and see what her reading of this is. These disputes occur all the time around this town. . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Those poles that are in the there, that are .sticking out down there, are they' objectional on your part? GLORIA PRAETZ: Yes. The pilings are right there and they shouldn' t be there. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So the idea of safety. . . .if you were to take your car down there. GLORIA PRAETZ: The idea of .the whole thing is, it' s suppose to be a road. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Up above you can. obliviously see where it' s .blocked, but at that point in my own mind you might want something there to black the people from driving off the edge of the dock. GLORIA PRAETZ: .There is a little bit of a ramp there you can go down if you would like to bring a ,boat down there occasionally and these cars are all there and you can't bring a boat down with all those cars there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well as for parking cars there I think that is more of a civil matter because that is not what we would consider to be now physically blocking your right to unrestricted access. That seems more of a civil matter and I don't think we can or cannot say that is not you right. GLORIA PRAETZ: This is a very unique situation and I think it should be looked. at. It' s very. hard on a piece of paper to see what we are talking about. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have seen this allover Town. And it should be in black and white. Our Town Attorney is very good and she' ll tell us yes you have the right for unlimited . . . . . . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL:, When was the house built and when was the cesspools put in. I mean 30 years ago? MR. PAPPAS. When I built the house in 1973 the permit and the CO would show that the permit was made in 1973 and the CO was issued in 1974. Since the property was substantial in size Board of Trustees 11 �,.;tober 29, 1997 Approximately a 100' X 110' piece, the request from the Board of Health was that the pool should be 100' away from the water. From the Town water. I 'm sure you're aware of that because the- property was so small we applied for a special . permis.sion from the Board of Health and they requested us to put the pools in the most northerly part of Beverly Road which is again under my own ownership even though the people don' t own it. I obtained a permit from the Town of Southold Building Dept. at the time the pools were approved and the people were talking about five or six years ago . . . .they only bought the house a few years ago. So he' s just guessing. Perhaps you listened to this young lady. It does not make sense of time. I don't know, we were there the same time and the pools were there then before I moved in. I repaired three broken covers that were damaged, but I don' t know exactly when but it was two or three years ago I discovered recently when mine was settling. This is a copy of the final ,survey that shows the cesspools and the septic tank. They were obtained by the Board of Health and it was final by The Town of Southold. Nothing has changed what so ever, and the area that was blocked off where the ties were, the driveway. is exactly over the pools. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There is two scenarios that I can see. The Town Attorney says that MR. PAPPAS by virtue of his -deed and your deed has the right to block a certain part of that road because his virtue, has legal rights and can do what� he 'wants there, or the Town Attorney can say no, by virtue of your deed and his deed you have access ingress and egress .of that road and he cant' block it with the ties or with the fence. As far as I can see these are the scenarios. But we can' t make that decision tonight. Any other comment? TRUSTEE CARRELL: You have to understand the way we work with the Town. If somebody puts in something and it' s in violation, they receive a notice of. violation which they have to settle. . However, at that point they are within their legal rights to apply, or apply for a permit for those things that are in place. If we don' t grant the permit, then and only then, can those things be removed and that' s simply respect for Town Code. It' s respect for property rights, but that' s the legality of it. Sure it would be nice if the Town and the Bay Constable would pull everything out and start from scratch but it' s not. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It' s going to be slow and painful but that' s they way it going to have to be. TRUSTEE GARRELL: .It has to be. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to recess the hearing? TRUSTEE WENCZEL.: So moved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 11. JANE NORDSTROM as contract vendee for EUGENE, HIGGINS requests a Wetland Permit for a 10' X 12' screened in porch and a 12' X 35' deck. Located: 855 Rambler Road, Southold. SCTM #88-5-37 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of or against the application? Does the Board have any? Board of Trustees 12 . ,% tober 29, 1997 CAC recommends disapproval because. the survey does not appear to be correct. SPEAKER: For the CAC SCOTT. . . .he went down there. He said he saw a high bush up further. . . . . I think there was also some question about (cannot hear her) is the house there already. I didn't personally see this property so I cant' give you my opinion. Because my notes say something along the line that it doesn' t appear that the deck . . . . . . .they are also building a house. Are they building a .house? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They are. I believe the house is located outside of our jurisdiction. We've been to the site a number of times. The wetland edge it's not clear cut, but where we determined the wetland edge to be, the house could have been built outside of our jurisdiction as proposed. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So they moved the house as far up forward as they could. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But now they want to put the deck on and the deck would certainly be within our jurisdiction. So now they have to come in for a full permit in order to put this deck on. Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing?. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So move. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL, AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I' ll make a motion that we approve the application of JANE NORDSTROM as contract vendee for EUGENE HIGGINS for a 10' 20 ' screened in porch and 12' X 35' deck, with the following conditions, that a row of haybales be established at the 5' contour line across the property and that a non-disturbed vegetative area be left 30' no disturbance after 30' from the back of the house towards the water. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 12. NANCY AND JOSEPH KARDWELL requests a Wetland Permit for a 15' wide naturalized passageway. 250' long, with 10 natural steps made out of landscaped timbers. 'Located: 1100 Back Lane & Munn Lane, Orient. SCTM #17-2-15. 4 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? MRS. KARDWELL: As I pointed out to Diane earlier, the description here was taken from y initial permit application and the actual description should read as it did in the paper that. appeared on October 6th. And further, I sent correspondence to . you on October 23, to make you aware that the DEC made a visit to my property, and outlining the various permission that the biologists were going to .recommend in the application there. And at this time I am requesting only that you grant permission that I 'm only allowed to clear the area, the 250' X 15' so that I then can have my surveyor provide exact metes and bounds and the engineer and -landscaper can give exacting recommendations on top soil, fill and any retaining wall that will be needed, in conjunction with the letter that I .SEN YOU. Everything was outlined in that letter... I don' t know if that would be done with Board of Trustees 13 �-L;tober 29, 1997 a second application or with an addendum. At this point I am requesting only the permission to clear. Tonight with me is the engineer who I consulted with on the project. Mr. Fischetti is here to answer any questions you might have. He visited my property quite. recently and stressed to me the need for clearing before we can really determine the. . . . The growth is so thick that it is impossible to see the lay of the land to judge the best position for the passageway. So that' s where we stand at this point. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm going to read the description so we have the proper description for everyone to think about. "Passageway to the beach 15' wide approx. 250' long. This application is to request permission to clear the passageway area to enable- the . landscaper and the engineer to determine the best location as the clearing is done, and to .enable the surveyor to provide exact metes and bounds. A second permit application or request for addendum to this application, will be made to provide you with an exact drawing with specific metes and bounds of the passageway, and designation of any areas that my require top soil fill and amount, and location of possible retaining wall that my be needed. We will be requesting permission for the landscaper to use a landscaper' s tractor/dozer to smooth -the surface, and to plant a type of grass that does not require fertilizer. Haybales will be used .the length of the passageway to hold the ground until the passageway area is 'stabilized. We will be requesting that occasional vehicular use of the passageway be allowed to provide access for transporting elderly persons to and from the beach and to provide access to the beach for. medical emergency vehicles. Please refer to our letter to you dated October 23, 1997" . I don' t know if the Board wants to discuss this or do you want to take more comments? I have a question before we get into any more comments. I says, "to clear the passageway", but it doesn't say how to clear- it. It' s gonna be cleared to what extent? MRS. KARDWELL: It will be cleared by hand. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But what I don't understand is, from a practical stand point, you- are requesting a passageway 15' wide. You don't know the best area to put it. So that' s sort of a nebulous approval then to say, . "O.K. clear the passageway, but it might not be there, it might be. . . .we might be left with an area 30' wide cleared. MR. FISCHETTI: Nancy asked me to take a walk down there and take a look at it, and if it wasn' t a vehicular passageway it wouldn' t be a problem. But because the vehicles have to go down there. . . .- and this area -has a couple of problems in that there are boulders in there, and it is very well sloped and as I walked in there I thought I immediately have to have a topographical survey and. a pretty detailed topographical survey for me to (could not hear him) . And to do the topographic survey we had to (could not hear him) . What I could do is when the landscapers would come down there and as we're in there we could locate this 15' within a visual best area where we wouldn' t disturb as much of .it as possible. Actually we relocated some of the areas and tried to stay away. from the boulders so we Board of Trustees 14 uutober 29, 1997 wouldn' t have to take those out or fill over them, so it' s a little bit of hand doing here and we would not clear more than 15' . What I would try to do is clear pretty much a straight passage of maybe 3 or 4 feet. To try to get 'a lay of the land and start walking down from there. Basically what we're saying is the area that she has located on those drawings are pretty much what I had. We' re gonna try to use that area. I might move it 3 or 4 feet either way. I don' t think it would change the essence of it. TRUSTER KRUPSKI: No, that makes sense. MR. FISCHETTI.: But for me to go in there and do a topol and then decide where it is (cannot hear him) . That' s what we're requesting. It will only be cleared 151 . In the end. I 'm not sure where it is but. . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: : O.K. That cleared that. up. .Would anyone else like to spear on behalf of the application? WALTER MILLIS: I 'm one of the co-owners of the beach at the end of this passageway. I'd like to request an adjournment of this. The whole business just described has just come up. I have a letter from my attorney who gave me a copy of a FAX that Mrs. Kardwell sent him dated last Thursday. I got that Monday. I got a letter from Mrs. Kardwell this morning. Both of them raising considerably new elements to this whole thing. I 'm just asking for an adjournment, if that' s the proper work for it. Recess, till I can discuss some of this stuff with my attorney.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What' s your concern? What's your interest? Why would we grant you that, specifically? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's his right of way. He has the beach rights. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh, I didn' t know that. You didn' t make that clear. MR. MILLIS: This walkway or whatever you call it is to replace an existing right of way that runs down this particular beach. To replace an existing roadway. I am requesting an adjournment so I can study the new stuff. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let me listen to all the other comments before I ask any questions. LINDA FEIGELSON: Yes, I would join this man in asking for an adjournment because I just this morning received a Fed-Ex and FAX, and the whole this has been re-designed and I really haven' t had ample time to read and. to discuss this with my attorney. I'm an adjacent property owner as Mr. Mellis and I have a deeded right of way on an original right of way and I'm not so sure this is such a good idea for various reasons. I would prefer to speak at another time but that' s your decision regarding the specifics.. It' s sort of a chameleon like plan and it keeps changing, and I 'd really just received the latest version and I haven' t had a chance to talk to my lawyer. MRS. KARDWELL.: The area that I am asking to clear is on my property. My hope was that after the clearing was done, then the various individuals who ,have right of way could examine clearly once the new way is cleared. Mrs. Feigelson who just spoke, we had reached an agreement with Mr. & Mrs. Feigelson and the Callahans back in 1988 when we originally had the situation Board of Trustees 15 _ _ tober 29, 1997 arise. And at that time part of the agreement was they agreed to allow us to move this right of way from the present location subject to their advanced agreement to a new location. But until we can give them an exact location by clearing and having our surveyor provide me with one, it' s impossible for us to say. "Here is where we would like to have the new location. Would you agree to this now?" So I 'm in sort of a catch 22. I couldn' t go in and clear .without getting you permission first and yet I can' t provide them with metes. and bounds until my surveyor can get in to draw up the plans. Therefore, I would still request permission to clear, because they will have ample time, probably several months before the clearing actually can take place because I have yet to wait for the signed permission from the DEC. I have been given every reason from the visit of the biologists that came, to believe that all their it would be positive. But I still have to go through the process of being finalized with the DEC and get their OK. I do not know how long that will take. I can' t clear based on .your permission until that' s done. So there's going to be plenty of time for them to say to me, "yes or no" , that they will be in agreement with the location. If they do say no, as the DEC environmentalist pointed out so clearly, in months' time and I well know from living there, the growth grows right back in and there will be no harm in that regard. The haybales will be put down from the beginning which I described in my letter.. The objections as I understand from my attorney as being presented by the Millis' s were the request that the area that. we are clearing will be 15' wide and that they will have the permission to have occasional vehicular use to provide for transporting the elderly to be brought to and from the beach. I don' t know what are the objections that they have now because both of those elements have been met. Unless they have any other objections I don' t know what is the reason they' re asking for an adjournment. Why do they need additional time to consider this? I 've tried to be as considerate as I can about meeting everyone' s needs and I still request that you approve permission to clear. Thank you. MRS. FEIGELSON: I have a deeded right of way, I have an agreement with the Kardwells reference to one particular pathway, involving vehicle passageway which they acknowledged. We had at the time of the signing of this agreement which they have (cannot hear her) I have a letter from 1990 regarding this issue of vehicular passage which came up again. It is clear from all of that if you go over it that and the tax agreement there is a mutual .understanding and the relocation. . . . .the whole point of this is to eliminate our current deeded right of way and move it -to another place. The answer is..true that in the agreement that we can walk. . .we said that we would have no objection if it were the location that we truly agree upon. If it accommodated the vehicular passage and if they got our approval we were certainly prepared to be reasonable. But the way that this has been dealt with, we read this proposal by the Kardwells to leave the. right of way at the slope of the hill abutting protective wetlands which is almost vehicularly prohibited, seems to be a violation of our agreement with them and undermines the trust of Board of Trustees 16 uctober 29, 1997 the whole thing between us. We also see it as an attempt to limit and interfere with our usage of the path. We also view it as an increased risk in the eco system and a potential danger to us. Especially in an emergency when mortality, and . I ' ll give you (can't hear her') If you have to evacuate someone and get someone down to the. beach as quickly as possible, .etc. But most significantly we' re really not convinced that there will be any benefit to such. an upheaval of an eco system like this or current deeded right of way is adequate and has been for many years. The idea of clearing this slope to create a new passage and risk disturbing the delicate balance of these wetlands seems frivolous and requires some research and a more reasonable , justification than just a few feet of privacy. In regard to vehicular passage we have tried to be. . . .and I noticed in the FAX this morning that there was some mention about the fact that we never even use it. Well the fact is, we have been judicious in exercising our right to use it. Out of neighborly courtesy. And also the climate on the right of way has not been user friendly. And passage there has been unnecessarily and inappropriately been challenged often. While we appreciate the Kardwells right to improve their lot we feel we are also obliged to protect our deeded rights as well. And again, I would go back and. request a postponement in these proceedings because I would like to consult with my lawyer. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can I ask you a question? And this is just in the interest of the Board, we don' t like these things drag on and we don't like to have them sit around for months because they always come back to us. Is is conceivable that you and Mr. Millis could possibly agree to any of this? Ever? MRS. FEIGELSON: Ever? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because we don't want to consider this, if it' s not conceivable, we don' t even want to consider this because it' s a waste of everyone's time. MRS. FEIGELSON: The main issue here. I think is and from Mrs. Callahan, I speak for her as well. 'She was not able to attend. today. Is we just don't understand what the necessity is, the reason for this. The tearing up the slopes of Munn Pond to put . in a walkway that' s a few feet further in. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well go see Mrs. Kardwell for that, she' ll tell you tomorrow morning over coffee. My question is, is it conceivable that you would ever. . . . .cause legally you would have or anyone who has deeded rights over this., would have to approve this in order to extinguish one right of way which we would want done with plant material like the DEC. . : . and create a new one. So if it's not even conceivable in concept, we don't even want to consider this. TRUSTEE. GARRELL: Another thing is you have been here for most of the evening right.? You heard the Pappas hearing. You can see the difference between. . .if Mrs. Kardwell. can sell tomorrow to Mr. Pappas and he would go in there with fences and piles and posts., you can see that' s what happens with these rights of way. So, in a sense what you are getting at least is an offer to do something and solve it. . MRS. FEIGELSON: Why would that resolve anything? Board of Trustees 17 �.;tober 29, 1997 TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: That' s what we want to know. Is this going to resolve anything, or are we just going around, around and around. BEATRICE de CROW: I have owned it for nearly 20 years now. So I'm exactly as affected by what is happening than the Callahans or the Millises or the Feigelsons, and I feel that maybe they haven' t considered exactly the proposal that Mrs. Kardwell is doing. I walked that passageway and I saw what would happen if the road is moved. I honestly don't what it would affect our way of going to the beach terribly and maybe we should grant Mrs. Kardwell the change to show us what it would look like. And as she mentioned vegetation grows very quickly in that area, and then decide whether they want to grant it to her or not. We are not confronted with a "must do" , but just give permission to show us what it would be. Why not grant that and see how we .feel about it? I personally feel that it will not change very much and we might be more private going down the beach and feel we are going through their garden and there might be some benefit to that. I recommend strongly that we grant permission to just show us what it will be like. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That' s what I was going to suggest that if the people. . . .but if you can conceive of this actually being done we' ll proceed with it. If you can' t, and in no way shape or form that you never will agree with this legally, then. . . MRS. FEIGELSON: Well first I would have to be reassured that there will not be any off balance in the environmental issues. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then you could conceive of this? MRS. FEIGELSON: I 'm not going to. . . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If your assurances are being met then it' s possible, that' s what I 'm saying, Otherwise. . . . MRS. FEIGELSON: Anything is possible. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. then it' s, possible. Then my suggestion was to let Mrs. Kardwell not cut a 15' wide path but cut a 4' wide walking path down roughly as you would start out. This is why I. want to ask Mr. Fischetti how youlwould start out. You wouldn't just take 15' wide and take a guess. You would start with a 4' wide path and you expand it from there. So my suggestion is cut a 4' wide path in roughly the area and then everyone can see whether this is such a hideous idea and forget about it or whether it . is actually possible in their eyes. And then we can move on from there. Because then you could actually walk the path and they could see it. MR. FISCHETTI: I 'd like to make it a little wider than 4' because that' s not going to give us the ability to get into the topols on either side, because 4' is still 7 or 8 feet into the brambles. It' s pretty tight. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We walked it with Mrs. Kardwell. MR. FISCHETTI: I want to be able to get into it. We're talking at least 6' wide. Again, we're talking about an area that is highly vegetated. What I' gonna try to do in that area is if it' s good, we're gonna have to get some topols of that area for the survey. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well don't get the topols yet. MR. FISCHETTI: No, I wouldn' t do that, I 'm saying that that was . the intent. Board of Trustees 18 uutober 29, 1997 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So, that' s my suggestion and I ' ll welcome any comment that we grant Mrs. Kardwell the right to hand cut, no machine, and only cut 1 6' wide path,. roughly in the area where you propose the 15 ' wide path to be. And then we can revisit this in a month. . MRS. KARDWELL-. I believe as far as Mrs. Feigelson and Mrs. Callahan are concerned is that they possibly didn't appreciate the position that I was placed in, of having to obtain permits before I could go back to them and then ask them for their permission and agreement on location. I think they just assumed I was going ahead on this based on the application and they assumed I was going ahead without the permission. And that was not the case. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well, you should tell them that. MRS. KARDWELL: Communication requires two directions. I tried to convey that in a letter and tried in a very congenial manner to convey that•. I. have no animosity toward these people. Not at all. And when Mrs. Feigelson mentioned that their access had been questioned many times, I don' t recall at any time, ever, blocking her access. We've never blocked here access. I don' t understand what. she' s referring to about that. The letter that she gave you copies of and the agreement that she gave you a copy of. She said that in the agreement that I had agreed to vehicular passageway. At that time—you can read the agreement there, word for word, there is nothing there that mentions the vehicle because at that time the portion of the passageway that goes down the hill to the beach, we and our attorney' s had never acknowledged to them that there was vehicular use there. They did not interpret the deed to grant vehicular passageway there. We asked that work be left out of that agreement. We did agree to the working that if the right of way were to be moved it would be equal width, the 15' , and that it would be of similar condition. I had, when that passageway was put in, when it was resurfaced when we installed our pool, I had put in a sprinkler system and laid down sod, tried to make it as nice as I possibly could to make it pleasant for the people who did ,have to walk across it. I did everything I could. I don' t know what more a person could have done. I have never blocked it. I have tried everywhere I can to be as congenial as .I can. My only request, and I hope they understand, when I was faced in 1980. When I found out the people who own that beach parcel were selling it in 12th' s, .I realized then that the future could bring 24th' s and 48th' s. Because it already happened when the house next door to me. . .when the gentleman there many years ago left that property to his various children. And when one of those children died she left it to her three children. It would only have been a matter of time before the people who have 1/12 a matter of one more generation, before they could be leaving it to their 3 or 4 children. I was faced wit the ownership on that beach becoming so fractionalized, that I would have many, many people, many households with the right of way to come into my property. I was only trying to protect my rights when I instituted this legal procedure in the first place. I really believe that any of the individuals who is here tonight or any of the defendants who are Board of Trustees 19 vctober 29, 1.997 not here would have, if. they were in my position, would have done the very same thing that I did. To try to protect my rights and ensure that there would be privacy there in the future and to make sure that beach parcel wasn't further fractionalized. Now in reaching that agreement we have a total of six present households, a guaranteed 7th, and possibly nine house holds who will have a right of way through my property to go down to that beach. I'm only asking for a little privacy so that I could go out and enjoy the front of my own property and my pool there. So I can enjoy. it in private. If I 'm able to move this right of way over, there will be a natural vegetative screen there between the new location and my. pool area that will enable us to enjoy our property in privacy. I do not understand why the are so objecting to. the new right of way. ,I have asked you for everything they wanted. I 'm hoping you will grant it. I have asked for the 15 feet, I have asked that it will be grassed so that it' is comfortable to walk across or to travel across, I am making sure. with an engineer now that it will be navigable for a car, so that the elderly can be brought down or emergency vehicles could be taken down, so I cannot understand what more there is that anyone would want. I tried to meet every request. No if the line is clear, if I clear the 15 feet and -still can.'t reach an agreement, and any of the various people still say no, as the biologists said, it ;can grow back in, so what is the objection to planning on going ahead and clearing the 15 feet so we know where it will be and the surveyor can do his work and I can go back now and say, "This is the drawing with metes. and bounds. Will you give me your agreement so we can finish up our legal agreement .and then we .can exchange deeds-for those people who have fee title. Also it' s difficult for people to visualize. If they can go in there and see, facing the 15 feet, they can actually see it while walking. And they will also have to realize that when they see it in the rough. If they can go in there and see it 1 think there is a much greater chance for me that they will agree then to the. move. If they try to judge based on 4 feet it' s just going to be the same problem again. I sincerely as you to consider letting me do the 15 .feet. Thank you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We still have to distill this down to environmental factors. My feeling on the 4 feet or 6 feet is just that this is. proceeding on such a glacial pace at this point and somehow we' re part of it. We're being ground down right along with it. I think it' s to a point-where we can let you show and have access to it and then you can make a. decision. And everyone can made a decision. Because we're not part of that legal decision, we' re only part of. the environmental decision. There is still no guarantee .that we' re gonna approve this 15 feet even if everyone has a block party down- there and decides that is the way go, we might say, "it' s not the way to go and you are just gonna have to leave it .the way it is. " So that' s putting in a better perspective to what' s happening here. (changed tape) MR. MILLIS: . . . .a request for an adjournment to simply say that my lawyer and I and I guess Mrs. Fagelson' s lawyer can study the Board of Trustees 20 October 29, 1997 latest proposals, which we haven' t seen. Except what' s described in the letter. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would it be advantageous for you to be able to walk down a 6 foot path? Would it give you a better idea of what she is proposing though? MR. MILLIS: I know what she' s actually proposing. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But to walk down that path, to see that. It would give you a better. . . MR. MILLIS: I could walk down without that path actually. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I doubt that.. We tried. MR. MILLIS.: Somebody walked down and put all those flags down there. TRUSTEE GARRELL_: It wasn't a walk. It was a. . .with a machete you could do it. MR. MILLIS: I 'm not saying you can' t but I 'm not saying engineering points- drawings could be prepared, but I certainly got a reasonable idea where this thing could go and what it would do to the sides of Munn Pond. But as long as you brought it up, I ' ll talk about it. Munn Lake, or Munn. Pond as we all know it for years .is pretty much neat. It' s a salt water sink hole, a glacial sink hole. With it' s own peculiar (cannot hear him) It seems to me that tearing the eastern side of it with heavy weight construction which is what is being considered down the road from moving earth and putting in this slope will be putting in something that would hold an automobile. We are damaging it. We are damaging the ecology. I 've done a photograph here. Believe it .or not, and I wrote a letter about a swan nesting. This is a pair of swans who have lived on that lake. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: My point is also though, and this is something we require on other applications, everyone can be in total agreement and we can disapprove in' the end. Because it is hard for us to visualize exactly the effect on Munn Pond, and like you said, it is a valuable natural resource, without getting good access to see exactly what is being proposed. If there is a passway that we can walk down also to take a look at, we can make a much better decision based on what we see, as what. opposed to guess what' s behind the brambles. We climbed through there, and it' s very dense and very difficult to see exactly how it would effect Munn Pond. And that' s our concern. Our concern is not who said what to who, and who did what, and all that. And we'd like to see what' s there. TRUSTEE GARRELL:. We have developes that in order to show us property where they propose housing envelopes or developments, where they have cut paths like that. At our request. That' s something we can do. We have no problem with that. We have the same questions, obviously as you all do, about a 15 foot path. And requesting wether it is necessary to clear the whole thing to have a look at it. MR. MILLIS: Finally, I question the need to do this at all. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was our question. Is it ever gonna happen? If you say no, 'then legally it can' t. MRS. KARDWELL: We've tried to reach agreement with the defendants outside of court. Now unless he has a really good reason for saying no, he' s just killing this completely, we will Board of Trustees 21 October 29, 1997 be going to court over this. We have conceded on almost every demand that' s been made by these defendants. We've given. in to Larry.Dorman's demand to add the 3 houses if he needs to there, it would add 3 more households using that right of way. We have given in to Mr. Townsend' s retaining his ownership. We've conceded on many things. All. we' re asking now is give us back a little privacy by letting us have .that vegetative screen there. As the DEC biologist pointed out, right now the current location of passageway that runs down there is already under the DEC jurisdiction within the 100 feet. He said in their view it would be just a matter of moving from one location ,to the other. And in his view, and there were two biologists there, they said as long as we use the haybales to secure the side of the area as .we work, that they saw no detrimental effects on the wetlands. The wetlands boundary ends at the edge of the lake. We have 100 feet up the hill. This passageway that I am proposing is very close to the other one. 'It will be just far enough away to allow me to have that.vegetative screen. Very close to the. other one. These two biologists saw no detrimental effect environmentally. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But you don't have DEC approval? MRS. KARDWELL: He said, as I pointed out in _the- letter, did you have an opportunity to read the letter? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, but what I'm saying is, "they said", but you don' t have an approval. MRS. KARDWELL: ' He told me that he would. stand behind everything I said in that letter and that he would make a positive recommendation on. everything I outlined in that letter. He told me that it was most unlikely that -someone would have to visit the property .again and that they would go by his . recommendations.' So I anticipate getting that approval. If you insist on having that approval before you grant approval, I . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: NO, that has. . .the DEC is just like a side show for us. If they approve it that's good, not to be derogatory but they're not really part of our decision making process for the most part. Sometimes we rely on their information and help but in this case they' re doing their' thing and we' re doing our thing. MRS. KARDWELL,: Well, he assured me that environmentally if I were to get some outside source to come in to' make an environmental -judgement on this that there would be no detrimental affect at all on the wetlands. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And I respect their judgement, ut in this case, I think the Board would,be reluctant to approve a project that—we're not gonna approve a duplication of right of ways. Physical right of ways down here. .That just doesn' t. .I can' t see the Board. doing that—Unless you have some sort of legal agreement that yes, your gonna extinguish the one right of way physically when you create the new one, I don't think we want to consider that, do we? Your not gonna just create another one and say, here' s another one. Maybe everyone will use that one and not use this one. MRS. KARDWELL: If I 'm allowed to clear and give the individuals. a change to go in there and look and see where it would be and then they can make their judgement and make their decision whether or not they want to go along with it, if they so no then Board of Trustees 22 October 29, 1997 it does not go in. I'm only asking today for a 6 foot width to clear. And the area that I am asking to clear is my property. They don't have any ownership on that area. If you don't want to get involved in the legalities, please give me the chance to go in there and clear the 6 feet and let them see. And then they can make a determination. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I don' t have any trouble with that, then the onus is on you to try to make that hard sell. And you can see it' s not gonna be easy. Maybe if you have a block party or . something like that you. could. . . ... . MRS. KARDWELL: I would love to because it would be wonderful to be able to live in a neighborly fashion. TRUSTEE GARRELL: All kidding aside, I think the toughest things that we have ever come across as. a Board, have to do with right of ways. We're just getting in on it now, and the town is loaded with right of ways and unless people can come to an agreement the only thing that emerges at the other end is bitterness and legal disputes and a lot ,of wasted time and money in court. But I would say that a six foot- path not a bad request. The 6 foot path would grow in relatively quickly if it were abandoned especially in ,the scrub there, but obviously the tough job is for you to try to sell the possibility of another right of way. MRS. KARDWELL: I was originally of the understanding that I could possibly get a 6 foot cleared path in there with a waiver and that I wouldn't even need to make a permit application for that. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I don't think so. MRS. KARDWELL: You denied the waiver because of the changes in the width. But what I am saying is if that' s the case, I could ask for that without even having a permit application.. It wouldn' t even involve a right of way, what is the objection now of letting me do the 6 feet and let me then try to deal with my attorneys and their attorneys. The worst that could happen is it grows back in. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is` one month critical -to your production of this? The reason I say this is during the one month, if these people look at the plans and we might come back next month and find that there is no problem at all and we can just proceed ahead. MRS. KARDWELL: You are saying, adjourn it for a month? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is it critical to you? MRS. KARDWELL: No, because it' s probably going to take that long anyway with the DEC application. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think that makes some sense that they have a chance to look at it and they can consult their attorneys and come back to you in between and say, "we think that' s a great idea, or we think it' s the worst idea. ever" . I think that that makes it easier on everybody MRS. KARDWELL: . I appreciate that and I would welcome their speaking of that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I ' ll make a motion to recess the public hearing until next month and we can review all the added information. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES Board of Trustees . 23 October 29, 1997 a 13. Land Use on behalf of RICHARD SANSEVERE requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct 150' 'of timber retaining wall and backfill as necessary (approx. 250 c.y. ) Located: 7433 Soundview Ave. , Southold. SCTM #59-6-5.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is ' there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of this application? TANYA OF LAND USE CO. : I faxed a letter here yesterday after speaking with ROY. JACOBSON from DEC. He indicated that they were objecting to the reconstruction within 8" to do the vegetation that is presently there, and just didn' t want to go any further into the pond, so we revised the plans to indicate reconstruction inkind/inplace and I brought additional copies and the original letter and the affidavit. The purpose for the reconstruction is to prevent further erosion' of shore lines ,and to prevent the property from future flooding. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I looked at this and . I had the same feeling . that 18" made to much sense, ' but the other thing I had a little concern with was the height. I don' t know where all the fill. TANYA LAEDENMEYER. The fill 'is as needed. TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL: It doesn' t say that. CLERK DIANE: Well it does as necessary. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Well it also gave some number. CLERK DIANE: 250 yds. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yea. That was the part that also scared me a little bit, 250 cubic yards. That is a lot of dump truck. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Something you might consider. I don' t know what the existing wall looks like. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The lake is gonna back a lot because it has gone dry so that it makes it look, what you see if you went out today you'd see a big difference, but this is the normal way. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have any DEC approvals? GLORIA PRAETZ:. JR and Pete Lawrence are on vacation for two - weeks otherwise I would of, had it... TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: .This engrave can be the same. Something you might consider, I don't know what 'the existing wall looks like. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It' s just rough. logs. GLORIA PRAETZ: I have pictures. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There is a material that we have in our office that' s I don't know if you heard of it it' s an interlocking plastic material it comes about a foot wide it' s shaped like a z and you drive them down and they interlock.,. then you drive right down to what ever height you want, it interlocks and it would be pretty much forever especially you' re know holding regular weight back you' re using it a lot on different areas where you can drive it down, so you could drive it right behind that you know an inch behind what' s there Just take out what' s there and that would be. the end of it. As far as expediting and going into other construction because it' s cheaper because there is no construction it drives in, it interlocks as you put the next piece in you drive it 'in so it is all self interlocking and that is the end of it. RICHARD SANSEVERE: I am going to do this myself. . I actually helped with the first one. . . . . .and helped someone put one in in 1965, but I was going to go right in front of it, ' but this year Board of Trustees 24 October 29, 1997 t' 3 it took such a beating and it actually has to be removed, so what we were advised all three were sold and put an old water tank. (Not speaking into microphone) . . . . . .will be going in vertically, because I think in the neck of that area will be easier, look better and probably hold up . . . . and we will used treated wood and as you was saying it will be bolted together. The height of 18" is the average height for the fill it' s been put there because originally . . . .the water because the water was low came right up to the back of the house to the basement and saturated the soil, flood the basement and also where approaching on the cesspool which is underneath the deck. . .it had come at least 5' of the septic and actually the grill was submerged, so my father built the retaining wall backfill so it would hold the lake at that point it would not approach over any more and that' s why is it very really that the water is that high. This spring it was fairly high, but most of the time as this gentlemen said it is to prove that and the wall has no play it doesn' t bother the lake at all. . . .there is vegetation not much in front of it. . . . . . . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think but you might seriously want to look at this material you drive it yourself. It might be a lot easier digging a ditch and then bolting everything together. The last few paragraphs the trustees are all discussing and speaking at one time. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So move. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL. AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I ' ll make a motion that we approve the application of RICHARD SANSEVERE to construct 150' of timber retaining wall and backfill as necessary. There will also be a 10 ' non turf buffer. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second on that? TRUSTEE KING: Seconded... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: As per revised plans dated 10/28/97. 14. CATHERINE V. HART requests a Wetland Permit to construct a single family dwelling, a 4' X 34' catwalk, a 3 ' X 5' ramp and a 6' X 20' float. Located: 70 Jackson' s Landing, Mattituck, SCTM #113-4-3 CATHERINE HART: My husband and I are in the process of trying' to .purchase a piece of property on JACKSON LANDING ROAD and we' re in contract, we don.' t own the property at this point and purchased the property contingent on the sale of getting permanent deed and we don' t know what we want to do. One of the things we want to do is build a single family home and the other thing is to build a catwalk and a dock on the property. I think we probably have a survey (papers rattling) . TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes we do, we have a file for it and we' ll review this. Is there anyone here who would like to speak concerning this application? HARRIET TROYER: I live at 300 JACKSON LANDING ROAD and I and several of my neighbors we would like to see CATHERINE HART Board of Trustees 25 October 29, 1997 � y build something on that property. There is a vacant lot between my property and the one she wants ,to build on. The one next to me apparently they could not manage to put their well and their sanitary system in there. They didn't have enough room between their own well and their cesspool. She had. actually . . . . .because we had talked on the phone a few times trying to resolve the problems with the wells and the cesspools together, unfortunately it didn't work for her and she pulled out of it the contract. . . . . . .but she had actually received approval from the DEC and I believe she actually received approval from the town trustees for her catwalk and dock also that is what she had told me. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE. GARRELL: Seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: A11 in favor? ALL AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I ' ll make a motion that we approve. You know that one problem that we do have before when I just started to make a motion, it' s I don' t know I meant to ask you before, I don' t know you are CATHERINE HART, I don' t know whether we can give you a permit to do this on somebody elses property. CATHERINE HART: I can' t do anything because we .don' t own the property, you are absolutely right. (After this paragraph there is a lot of discussing) . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I' ll make a motion that we-approve the application of CATHERINE HART for a wetland permit to construct. a single family dwelling, a 4' X 25' catwalk, 3 ' X 15' ramp and a 6' X 20' float, during construction there will be a row of hay bales at the 8' contour line and there will be a no vegetation disturbance between the 8' contour line and the water. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 15. PETER BELL requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 150' catwalk, (4' above marsh) a 4' X 20' floating dock with a 4' X 12' ramp going down to a floating dock with 2- 8" pilings, (NOTE: Applicant wishes to amend description to increase length of catwalk 100' more in order to protect the adjacent. wetlands) . Located: 3850 Stillwater Ave. , Cutchogue. SCTM #(136-2-10 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here like to speak on behalf of this application? PETER BELL: For the proposed addition I 'd like to construct the 4' to 30" to save me money so I can afford the other 1001 . TRUSTEE WENCZEL: We have no problem with that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you just come up here and initial the change. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL.: So move. TRUSTER WENCZEL: Seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES TRUSTER HOLZAPFEL: I' ll make a motion that -we approve the application of PETER BELL with. the amended application. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which is 30" X 250' catwalk. All. in favor? ALL AYES. Board of Trustees 26 October 29, 1997 V. RESOLUTIONS: . 1. En-Consultants Inc. , on behalf of EDYTHE SCHMITT requests a Grandfather Permit to remove and replace inkind./inplace two 48' existing groins. Located 4900 Peconic Bay Blvd. , Laurel. SCTM. #128-4-7 & p/o 6 TRUSTEE :KRUPSKI: I ' ll make a motion to approve the application of the Grandfather Permit to replace two 40' existing groins low profile. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES 2. En-Consultants Inc. , on behalf of , KENNETH & LINDA PIEK.ARSKI as contract vendee .for Lewis Edson requests a Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a single family dwelling, pool and driveway. Located: R.O.W. off Main Road, Orient. SCTM #17-1-2.2 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I ' ll make a motion .to table this application. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded. 3. First Coastal Corp. , on behalf of RICHARD & LLEWELLYN THATCHER request a Grandfather Permit to restore- and repair (inkind/inplace) the existing pier. and boat house. Located: Private Road, off East End Road, LILCO pole #992, Fishers Island. SCTM #3-3-7 TRUSTEE: KING: Grandfather exist walk. to boat house, boat house only. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded. 4. EDMOND & SUZANNE THOMAS request a Grandfather Permit to repair existing bulkhead inkind/inplace. Located: 1355 Shore Drive, Greenport. SCTM #47-2-27 TRUSTEE GARRELL.: Approved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded. 5. MARIE & JOHN SHACK request a Grandfather Permit to repair existing bulkhead inkind/inplace. Located: 1265 Shore Drive, Greenport. SCTM. #47-2-26. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Approved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded. 6. RICHARD & JUDITH DI BLASI request a Grandfather Permit for a 3 ' X 27 ' catwalk, a 3 ' X 10' ramp and a 6' X 20' float. Located: ROW between 360 & 560 Bayview Drive, opposit LILCO pole #10, East Marion. SCTM. #37-4-1 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Approved. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Seconded 7. MICHAEL. SLADE: requests a one year extension for- PERMIT #4440 to replace inkind/inplace approx. 40 l.f. ofexisting functional bulkhead. Reconstruct approx. 125 l.f. of existing functional bulkhead by adding new sheathing on the seaward side of the existing piles. Permit to expire April 27, 1998/ TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Approved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded. r. Board of Trustees 27 October 29, 1997 VI . MOORINGS• 1. RICHARD CAPPELLO requests a Duck Blind in Little Creek for a 10' X 8' duck blind. ACCESS: Public TRUSTEE GARRELL: Approved. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Seconded. Meeting Adjourned at: 10:10 P.M. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Approved. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Seconded. FILED FZ, CL U'11V 1e S�L•_�j I1iJ 6 ryyBga� Respectfully Submitted By: a To,t•.,-u Maureen Byrnu