HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/19/2000 ti 1
Albert J.Krupski,President " �QS �C - Town Hall
James King,Vice-President ��� Or/y 53095 Route 25
Henry Smith C P.O:Box 1179
Artie Foster coo
Southold,New York 11971-0959
Ken Poliwoda Telephone(631) 765-1892
Fax(631) 765-1366
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
Wednesday,April 19, 2000
7:00 PM
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 at 11:00 am.
TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 at"7:00 PM.
WORKSESSION: 6:00 PM.
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of March 22, 2000.
Minutes not complete.
I. MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for March 2000. A check for
$5,154.12 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for
review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
1. S.E.L. Permits on behalf of MATTITUCK INLET& MARINA requests an
Amendment to Permit#5058 to reclaim lost fill 5'-10' seaward of reconstructed bulkhead
to a depth of 3'-3.5' at apparent low water. Located: Mill Rd., Mattituck. SCTM#106-
6-13.3
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application and that we charge for the 20 cy. of
fill. TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
2. S.E.L. Permits on behalf of BELVEDERE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT LLC
requests an Amendment to Permit#4475 to dredge approx. 145 cy. in landing craft site,
install 12'X 70' concrete and rubber access ramp and two 7-pile dolphins. Dredge
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material to be placed upland for future beach and bluff nourishment. Located: Robins
Island. SCTM#134-3-5
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE FOSTER
seconded. ALL AYES
"3. Land Use Ecological Services on behalf of E.M. KONTOKOSTA requests an
Amendment to Permit#5092 to include the placement of 75+/- cy. of Natural Long
Island Stone (300-500 lbs.) at the toe of the proposed bulkhead to act as armoring.
Located: 54155 Middle Rd., Arshamomaque. SCTM#52-1-2&3
TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
4. Land Use Ecological Services, Inc. on behalf of WILLIAM MALLINS requests an
Amendment to Permit#5116 for a 3'X 30' seasonal ramp, a seasonal float and 4"X 4'
piles for the dock and,4"X 6" piles for the float, as per the request of the DEC. Located:
70 Jackson's Landing, Mattituck. SCTM#113-4-3&4 .
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded.
ALL AYES
5. Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of PAUL AHLERS requests an Amendment to
Permit#1437 to extend 4'X 30' dock by 10', installing a 32"X 16' ramp to replace
existing and turning 6'X 20' float straight instead of"T" configuration. Installing eight
2-pile dolphins. Located: 1905 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport. SCTM#35-4-16
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application with the condition that the
structure be no further than the neighbors with a total of 3 dolphins off-shore with revised
plans, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES
6. ANNE L. SCHWIEBERT requests a Waiver to construct a wood deck approx. 20'X 40'
onto existing house. Located: 1075 Mill Creek Dr., Southold. SCTM#135-3-40
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approved the application, TRUSTEE KING
seconded. ALL AYES
7. FRANK ZITO requests an Amendment to Permit#4526 to change the floor of the tool
shed from concrete to wood. Located: Broadwaters Cove Marine, 8000 Skunk Lane,
Cutchogue. SCTM#104-8-2.5
TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application with the condition that there is to
be a drywell in the rear of the shed. TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
8. Jennifer Gould, Esq. on behalf of ROBERT R. &ALLISON A. WIECZOREK
requests a Transfer of Permit.#5127 from Sharon L. McElroy to Robert R. & Allison A.
Wieczorek.. Located: 385 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport: SCTM#35-4-28.26
TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
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9. SUSAN CACCHIOLI requests a Transfer of Permit#4103 from Carol Blassuci to Susan
Cacchioli and Steven J. Gueci. Located: 1040 Holbrook Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#113-
6-13
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded.
ALL AYES
10. MARTIN & MARJORIE DUNN request a Transfer of Permit #1676 from John H.
Brochard to Martin&Marjorie Dunn. Located: 1570 Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck.
SCTM#122-4-3
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Table the application a plan of the dock is submitted and
drawn on the survey. TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS
FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD.
I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT
CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE
PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF:
FIVE (55)MINUTES OR LESS, IS POSSIBLE
1. S.E.L. Permits on behalf of TIMOTHY & NANCY HILL requests a Wetland Permit to
install a 4'X 45' catwalk, a 3'X 12' ramp and a 6'X 20' float with 2 piles. Located: 360
Oak Ave., Southold. SCTM#77-2-2
(Tape malfunctioned.)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Table the application until the May"meeting. The
Trustees will speak to the Town Attorney regarding the Covenants and Restrictions of
Goose Bay Estates. TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
2. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of JAMES &MARY ABBOTT request a Wetland
Permit to install (18) 8" diameter X 16' timber batter pilings to reinforce existing+/-101'
timber bulkhead. Located: 8810 Peconic Bay Blvd., Mattituck. SCTM#126-5-3.1
TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to close the hearing, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded.
ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application with the condition that the batter
pilings be no more than 30" seaward of the bulkhead at beach level and that when and if
the bulkhead is re-built, the piles.are to be removed. TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded.
ALL AYES
3. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of EDNA RICHARDS requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a fixed timber dock, consisting of a 4'X 58' fixed catwalk elev. 3.5' above
marsh, a 3'X 14' ramp and a 6'X 20' float secured with(2) 8" diameter pilings, and steps
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2'X 4' landward of existing stone wall. Located: 2300 Broadwaters Rd., Cutchogue.
SCTM#111-1-1
POSTPONED AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE
4. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of JAMES MIHALIOS requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a 77+/-timber retaining wall with(2) 12' angled returns and truck in from an
upland source approx. 150 cy. of clean sand to be used as backfill and planted with Cape
American Beach Grass. Located: 640 Lloyd's Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#99-3-4.1
POSTPONED AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE
5. Gary F. Olsen, Esq. on behalf of NEIL SCHLUSSEL requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a single-family dwelling. Located: Stillwater Ave. East, Cutchogue.
SCTM#136-2-7&8
(Tape malfunctioned)
Carl Vail read a letter regarding his concerns about the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: ...of the wetland boundary and then we go and check it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we'll all look at it on this one. We'll need the wetland line
placed on the survey and then we need to show...the applicant has to try to accommodate.
the Board on the 50' non-disturbed buffer from there.
DAVID OLSEN: Do you have a copy of that?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, we do. You can take this back. So, you'll have to have
someone have this put on the survey, the wetland line. We don't consider this to be the
wetland line. That's the top of the bank, the actual open water.
DAVID OLSEN: So someone where around here, and you want it 50' back from there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's right. Then, we'll have to have it staked in the field and
we'll do a field inspection. Any other comment? Do I.have a motion to Table the
hearing?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make that motion.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So this will come up automatically next month. Now, if Mr.
Schlussel can't the surveyor or whatever, if he can't get it done,just let us know and it
will be postponed until, or it will automatically come up the next month again.
DAVID OLSEN: We just can't submit the map showing the revision?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh sure.
DAVID OLSEN: It would have to come back up?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh yes, because we just Tabled the hearing. We didn't close the
hearing. But, if you could do it in a timely fashion, or next field inspection we set
already for May 17. If you could have that for us before then and have it staked on the
site, then we could go back out there again.
DAVID OLSEN: Thank you.
6. Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of DONALD BRENNAN requests a Wetland
Permit to remove existing jetty/bulkhead, then constructing 68' of new jetty using vinyl
sheathing at a slightly different angle. Construct 42' new bulkhead using vinyl sheathing
and resheathing the remaining 76' of existing bulkhead. Located: 1663 Bridge Lane,
Cutchogue. SCTM#118-2-4.2
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TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of the application?
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: I'm representing Mr. Brennan. As you can see, the
structure is existing, the jetty is existing, the bulkhead is existing. I just turned it and put
a slighter angle in it. The reason for that is that when you're entering that channel along
the southwest wind on your stern four-quarter, it makes it a little difficult to get in there.
Usually this channel is filled in from the southeast side so you basically have to hug this
section, the northeast section to get in there to clear that sand bar. That's the reason for,
the new configuration. Obviously the bulkhead that is there now has a falling in corner
on it and it needs repair.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I just had a question on the description. The plans seemed clear.
You're just going to take the angle out of that.
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: Correct. We're just taking that corner out. That knocks
down the footage a little bit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does anybody else have a problem with the description? What's
the total length of the new vinyl. It says 42'.
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: It's 38' as the existing jetty is 38' and it's going to come
out and go right back in the same line and the same distance off-shore. That doesn't
change. Then there's 72' of new structure and we're calling part of that structure, the
first 30',jetty, because I can't not put a backing system in it. Actually you could call it a
bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh I see. I just didn't understand the wording. We looked at it
in the field and we looked at the plans and it looked like it made sense.
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: I clarified it that the 30' for the jetty, for the DEC. That's
why I wrote it that way.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any dredging associated with this?
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment? Does anybody have any problem
with this? But you'll have to take out the material that's in front of the new one, won't
you?
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: Correct. I'm going to excavate behind the bulkhead before
I pull it out so it's not called dredging. It's called excavating.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay, but you should still include that in your description with
the yardage and whatnot and deposit the sand right up there on the beach, I assume.
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: Correct.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC recommends Disapproval with the concern with the
proposed increase in the length of the jetty and where the existing spoil from the
changing'angle is going. We've resolved where the spoil is going and the jetty is not
getting any longer really, is it?
GEORGE COSTELLO SR.: No it's not. It's not changing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright. Do you have any problem with that?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I didn't see a problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you want to make a motion Ken?
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TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to Approve the Wetland Permit with
excavation included behind the old bulkhead and the fill will be placed behind the new
bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just give us a yardage figure and then the depth to which you're
going to go to.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
7. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of WEST LAKE ASSOC. requests a Wetland
Permit to dredge the entrance channel and adjoining portions of West Lake to 3' below
MLW, place a total of approx. 600 cy. of dredge spoil on indicated sites, maintenance
dredge to same conditions as necessary to max. of 3 additional timed during the next 10
years. Located: 505 Cedar Point Dr. West, Southold. SCTM#90-1-11
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
JIM FITZGERALD: I'm here for the Association. I don't personally have anything new
to add except for that I would like to point out again that the Trustees did Approve
essentially.the same project in the past, although there is some question about whether or
not it was ever consummated. I understand that the Trustees also have received letters
from members of the Assoc. and I think that some of the members are here tonight to talk
to you and I believe also we have Mr. Edgar who is a contractor who would like to
describe how he would propose to do the operation in-some detail, and I think you spoke
to him at the site at the last inspection.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We did. Briefly,just to recap the last month's, our concerns
were, well our big concerns were the integrity of the neighbor's bulkheads which is based
in black and white in the Code, preventing us from doing something that would
undermine the lateral stability of the'adjacent neighbor's property. I think something that
on the order of...well I'm getting ahead of myself, maybe, I'll let everyone speak and
then we can ...
JIM FITZGERALD: Mr. Edgar is here and he can talk to both the insurance aspect of the
situation and the opinion of he and I think Mr. Costello, who installed the Moi's bulkhead
or repaired the Moi's bulkhead sometime ago, as to whether or not the bulkheads would
survive the proposed activity.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak?
JOE EDGAR:' I'm the contractor. I met with you on site. I had an opportunity to speak
to George Costello the day of your inspection. Based on the profile we're requesting, he
feels there would be absolutely no problem with the integrity of the Moi bulkhead. My
feeling is the same with the opposite bulkhead. The profile, which we're looking to
achieve, basically, we'll maintain an angle of repose which will not dramatically change
the material against the bulkheads at this given time. The main problem is the sand delta
which is built up just inside the lagoon. It's a continuing, expanding delta and I feel that
as it widens and rises in profile, it's going to start to accelerate erosion into surrounding
improved properties including vegetated wetlands.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How would that accomplish that.
JOE EDGAR: .Well it's like pouring a pancake on the griddle. As it widen it's starts to
rise, which this sand delta continues to do,.water, as it enters and exists the lake is going
to take the path that's least resistant, which would be around the sand delta. On one side
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of that particular bar is wetlands. On the other side there is a dilapidated bulkhead and as
you move further toward the Peconic, you have an improved bulkhead, I believe it's the
Greenfield property. Another scenario which can occur(noise) in profile, could cause the
lake to stagnate. Not to mention it is a serious navigation hazard. Somebody unfamiliar
with that particular area, and I have some pictures if you would like to review them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh sure. We were fortunate to come at low water each time so
that we could really see the elevations. I'm just going to take comments from everyone
else first. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this matter in favor of or
against.
MIKE ZEVITS: We own a piece of property on West Lake that's 1945 Little Peconic
Bay Rd., and I just want to speak up in favor of the dredging. I speak in favor of the
dredging for many different reasons. One of my favorite is to keep the marine life alive
and well in that particular creek. I look in the past at two other creeks that were in that
area that were specifically Terry Waters Creek, and it's now called a pond, and also there
was also another creek,which is now a pond also. I think it's called Midway Creek but,
as a boy, I remember going into those creeks claming, fishing, catching the crabs, etc. and
now it's gone. It's gone because it's all shoaled up. Essentially, that's what I'm seeing
in West Lake. I grew up in that creek also and I've done boating out of that creek many
times. I have a small dock on the creek itself and I can tell you right now, coming in and
out of that creek, it is a danger. It's a navigation hazard at this point, specifically at low
tide. One of the problems I see, specifically with more, well some boaters anyway, when
they try.to get out,they're actually picking up their engines and the engines are out of the
water so that they don't hit the bottom. Some of them are even getting out to push the
boat along. I can foresee someone getting hurt, seriously hurt. What's also happening
because of that shoaling, is that when it is high-tide, the water is rushing in, it's rushing in
like rapids and what's happening is that the boats are coming in and they have more of a
tendency to crash into the bulkheading on either side, so it's a hazard for the boaters who
use it right now. Obviously it's a benefit to all the people to have this particular lake, or
creek, dredged not only for the marine life but also for the safety of the individuals and
more importantly to enhance the property values on that particular creek. If that does
shoal off or if it does become unnavigatable certainly the property values do decrease and
certainly the tax rate for the Town of Southold will decrease also as a result. One thing
I'm concerned, and I have written a letter.to the Trustees, there is a health hazard. I look
at it, and maybe it might be far out, but I'm looking at the West Nile Virus. I look at the
mosquito population in that area and it has increased. It's terrible in the summertime
there. In fact, if the creek does stagnate like Terry Waters Creek did and also Midway,
we might have a problem there also and I wouldn't like to see it happen and I speak on
behalf of several individuals here but I think they have something to say also. Thank
you.
PATRICIA KELLY: I have property on Little Peconic Bay Lane also. The reason I
want this creek dredged out is because I'm a bird watcher. I used to go watching birds
over in Terry Waters as a little kid. The birds that are concerning me most are the herons
and the egrets and the plovers that jump and that you see roaming around there. You
won't find these marsh bird egrets in Terry Waters anymore. They don't even go near
where the entrance was anymore because all their food is gone. I was doing a little
research on this and I was looking down in Cape Canaveral down in Florida where they
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closed off an area to prevent, I don't know just to make a park out of it, and it was to
prevent mosquitoes. What happened is when they closed it all off, the mosquito
population got so large because these kinds of marshy type birds that go in and out with
the tides were eating all of the mosquitoes so what happened was that they had to use
chemicals. We have a septic system, and what is it, like 75 % of this area is septic
system, and we really don't have regulations on our septic systems and by leaving this
estuary open so that the natural drainage can clean out this area, it's going to save us all a
lot of money in the long run, especially since last summer when the mosquito population
was horrendous. If we can take care of this stuff naturally, by keeping this place dredged
and allowing the natural filtering of the water, everybody in the area is going to be a lot
healthier. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
CATHERINE BARBADO: My husband and I have a home on West Lake Drive and I
was unaware of the meeting last week until one of my neighbors called me. However, we
were aware of the fact that there was a meeting for Campanelli which was posted. I don't
know if it's a policy that all things must be posted or not. I know-that West Lake has two
signs. One on Mid Way and one on East Peconic Lane and we saw no notice whatsoever
there. I went to your office there and I obtained a few things. The first that I want to
address is that your Conservation Advisory Council has given you Approvals. However,
they stated West Lane instead of West Lake and Southold may have a different West
Lane.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It might be a typing error . It's probably,a clerical error and not
any intention to mislead anyone.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Well if they do the dredging and they use the crane and the
crane goes up and down West Lake, our road, and they do any damage to the road, who is
going to be responsible to fix that road for us? We would like to know if the Association
is going to pick-up the costs. We've had problems with, in 1987, with the road and we
don't want the same problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The contractor should be responsible for any damage.
CATHERINE BARBADO: So we will have someone to rely on that could take care of
this?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's a good to have someone...that's something that hadn't yet
been discussed in this application is the access for equipment to do this job.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Well how would that be done, sir?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's usually don't by having the applicant or the contractor
post a bond.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Now another thing. If you recall, we had a private meeting
with the Trustees on October 5, 1990 and it was just my husband and I with the Trustees
and I would like to know if you keep the records of our meeting with you filed with the
West Lake Assoc. or under our name in your files?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What was the meeting about ma'am?
CATHERINE BARBADO: It was about the many illegal things that were done around
the lake. We were concerned with the illegal ramp that was put right at the end where it
comes through. The reason we're concerned is because we've had people stopping us,
two or three times, asking us about the public ramp of Southold. They wanted to use the
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road to go into the lake. Now is this going to become a public ramp that everyone has
access to?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well the lake itself is owned by the Trustees of the Town of
Southold and therefore the bottom is public property, however, you cannot use private
land to access that.
CATHERINE BARBADO: So in other words, if the ramp remains there, they have
access to the ramp?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't think the ramp would necessarily give them access.
If it's private property, you can't cross private property to access public property.
CATHERINE BARBADO: And we can be assured of that then.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You can be assured that we wouldn't ever give anyone to cross
private property to access public lands.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Now according to the impact sheet that I have here; it says
that it was expected that the project will have no significant affect on the wetlands and
the tidal waters of the Town. What we expect and what natural deals out are two
different things. 1 don't know if we should question impact statements or not.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh go right ahead, ma'am. That's up to you.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Well the reason I say that is because we've been living there
for a long time and we have experienced different results from the different dredging that
they've had there. Many, many times, when they did not have that bulkhead along the
canal, we had'not problems there. When they put the other connecting one here, that's,
when the problem started. We remember, when our children were small, that canal was
deep. The bluefish and other fish would go in and out of the lake into the bay.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Excuse me, I'm unclear as to what you just said.
TRUSTEE KING: She means that this didn't start to shoal up until these bulkheads were
put in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that it?
CATHERINE BARBADO:, As the canal enters the lake, alright, let me show you. You
say you own the bottom there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's correct.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Alright. You know where the Greenfields are? Right in
front of them, abutting along the canal, and then there's another along the lake here, that
is what I'm talking about.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. The bulkhead.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Yes. Now, many illegal things were done here and
unfortunately whatever was done on the water, does not go away and lasts us for years
and years and years, and that is the reason that I question the meeting we had on October
5, 1990 to be reviewed by the residents that were unaware of this and postpone this
meeting for another time so we can discuss it further.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well that we would have to look up and see if Lauren can find
the minutes of that meeting of 1990.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Well I have most of the correspondence at home. I did not
bring it because I was unaware of the meeting and I didn't have too much time to discuss
it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well anything that's relevant to this application we would
certainly welcome.
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CATBERINE BARBADO: Well I would certainly appreciate it if you would consider it.
Thank you.
JOE BARBADO: I live at 200 West Lake Dr. and I'd like to make a few comments:
We've been there over 38 approx. 38 years and the problem seems to be...well I think
there's two reasons why it's filling in the way it has been filling in. First of all, back in
approx. 1978 the Born brothers had that dredged by Latham in East Marion. They
dredged that whole lake out and put the spoil on the main land so they could have depths
to set up his property along the lake. Now what's happening, through that course of time
until now, all that silt is long washing down and most of the property on the west side of
that lake is undermining and filling in and there is approx., I guess, and it's only a guess,
it's approx. about 25'of mud and silt. The problem came when the bulkhead on the west
side of the lake on.the northwest corner where it comes into the lake, somebody put
illegal bulkhead and the ramp. Before that was put in, that canal was at high tide and low
tide, a sufficient amount of water going back and forth to keep it open. Look at your
records. It's been dredged many a times. I've been there approx. 36 years and it's been
dredged 3 or 4 times. If this dredging goes through, for what I read on the last agenda
that you have, you're going to have them put the spoil on the east side of the canal, well
when you get a southeast wind or a northeaster like we have been getting for the last
couple of years, all of that nice soft sand is going to shoal right back in. My suggestion
is, before you issue a dredging permit, that there should be something done about having
the silt come into the lake and then you have a job that will be well done and only be
applied for once in a lifetime. Also, when that small bulkhead was put in and the ramp,
there was a huge colony of fiddler crabs and you know what fiddler crabs do to the
bottom. They clean it. Also, there was a huge area of oysters there in which when they
dredged it, that vanished. The dredging can be done if it's done right. There's quite a bit
of wildlife. Last year I noticed maybe a couple dozen of scallops starting to come back in
to the lake. Years ago, that lake was a wonderful spoiling ground for scallops. Today we
have a problem with scallops especially in this locality. There are a lot of fish that are
going to be hurt and killed by this dredging. I'd like you to have consideration and look
back into the past that had been done to concur with today's meeting. Thank-you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
STAN RUGOSKI: I live in the same area. I'd love to see that lake open and I feel the
wildlife would be gone and we'll a lot of mosquitoes and I don't want that. I want it
open. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
JOY ZEVITS: I don't have any statistics or anything like that. I just want to say that I'm
in full favor'of the dredging and pretty much for what the other people said. It really has
to be done soon. I know you don't want to destroy the wildlife but if you don't do it
know, that creek, like Terry Waters, is just going to fill in, you won't get boats in and out,
there's no access to it,the fresh water from the bay is not going to come in and out. It's
going to become stagnant, mosquitoes, everything is going to die, wildlife, plants, the
fish, the crabs, clams, and I grew up there and we've been there for over 35 years. My
idea is to preserve that part of it. If you don't dredge it, you say"well I'm protecting
wildlife" you're going to destroy the wildlife, basically, so it has to be clear to water from
the bay. It has to have the tides coming in and out. That's my idea.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
t f
f
JOY ZEVITS: Do you what I also want to say, since I have a whole list here, because I
came here for so many years to Southold, I love Southold. I think it should be
maintained and preserved and if you don't do it know, down the rides, our kids and their
kids are going to suffer. I think that's important.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'll take all the new speakers first.
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: I think it's a given to just react to other speaker, that every
one of us here loves Southold and I think we're all here particularly because we want to
" keep it the way it should be otherwise we wouldn't be here. I think I'm on record. I'm
Marcelle Greenfield and I am directly involved because it's my bulkheading that is on
one side of the canal. I'm on record being opposed to the dredging and one of the
reasons I want to also clarify since the last meeting and re-iterate is that these other
closed lakes do not have bulkheading on both sides. What the Moi's have done and I
have done has maintained that bulkheading to do it for the whole community as well as
ourselves and as long as that bulkheading stands there, that water comes in and out. Sir,
you're a fisherman, you know the area. The other areas that are closed are closed
because they are not protected by the bulkheading. I'm very concerned, and I know
everybody has the best intentions, if the work is done, to be done as professionally as
possible. You can understand that I also deserve to have a guarantee that if it is
approved, that there will be no damage to me, to my property, and my bulkheading. I
want to be assured before it starts, and I'd like to know exactly how and the work is being
done to see that...aside from that,there are monies set aside that this will always be cared
for. The other thing is, I'm very concerned about automatically permitting "that the
maintenance dredged to same conditions and to be done three additional times in the next
ten years". Number one, if the dredging is permitted, I think before it be done again, we
have to have another review because things change, tides change, water level changes,
the ecology is changing. Do we know what three years down the road is going to do,
what the results will be from the original dredging. I think, first of all, that"automatic"
should be erraticated. I don't approve of that at all and I'm very concerned about that.
As far as the bond is concerned, or however you will be doing the indemnification, it
should be not less than 10 years that this should be taken care of. I don't know if there's
anything else. Thank you very much.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who hasn't spoken?
JERRY CASE: I live on West Lake also. Many people have been talking about how
long they've been here. My family'got here in 1669 or something. I've been coming out
here for 69 years myself working, swimming, and boating in Peconic Bay and I have
access to the bay now and I can see that it's quickly disappearing. It hurts me in many
ways, not the least of which is property values but also a certain amount of enjoyment
why we bought the house, why we came here and why picked that particular house
because we had access to the water, and it looks to me it's clearly filling in much worse
this that it was two years ago or last year. I utterly urge you to pass this permit and let us
dredge that lake. Thank you.
INA GREENFIELD: I'm right on the bulkheading on the mouth of the lake and I'm just
concerned about how long it takes to dredge? What is the time period and when would it
be done? We're directly affected. I don't know how many people are in support and are
in favor of it. I understand their enjoyment of the area but how will they directly be
affected as opposed to our peaceful enjoyment of the area if it's right on our backyard
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because a lot of the people, I don't know how close they are. (changed tape)we swim on
the lake, as you can see I have a young son, and we're concerned about the traffic, and all
these things affect us. If it's going to occur repeatedly over the next ten years, it's a large
chunk out of our enjoyment and we're concerned also about the traffic. In fact, right now
there's restricted because of the high and low tides. Obviously the Town of Southold
doesn't have the means to police the area and a lot of people don't.really know how to
use their boats within the law, the legal limits, how to use the channel, how to go out
100'. My father was run over by a boat, swimming. So,these are issues for us and we're
concerned about it and we want to see how that would be taken care of.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Just a brief question to the contractor, how long
would the dredging operation typically take for that job?
JOE EDGAR: That situation could be as little as three to five days. As far as noise, most
of the access or all of the access would be via the water. The accuracy of this particular
unit would be monitored via laser. As far as some of the problems with the roadways,
there are no large cranes coming in. Everything will be handled from a barge and a
remove dredge that will be deployed down the channel. The dredge could be moored as
far as 100' from your property, in terms of noise or bother. As far as sensitivity to the
shellfish, basically the delta we look to remove, I didn't see any sign of any activity,
scallop, shellfish, or otherwise, we're only talking about bringing out the material in the
canal and that delta that's blocking it.
JOE BARBADO: I clam there practically once a week or every two weeks or whatever,
and I have noticed the scallops coming back. I noticed the clam is starting to come back.
JOE EDGAR: I also know that they rely on a higher salinity content that you're going to
see if in fact that canal closes up.
JOE BARBADO: Well if that parcel of land with that illegal bulkhead and ramp was
removed, and go back before they built that, there would be such a flow of water coming
in and going out. The amount of water coming in and going out, you wouldn't be able to
walk across that canal. As of now, with that restriction there, I grant you it's a restriction,
no doubt about it, and there are restrictions there because of the illegal stuff that's been
put in there. That's the problem that you people have to deal with. That's why you can't
get in and get out. Before that was put in there, there was no problem.
TIPPY CASE: I live on the lake. I'm in favor of the dredging and it's basically
maintenance. We've put money and time and the permit into it before, in 1990 I believe
it was, and it needs to be done again, and I ask you to give us the permit. Thank you.
JENNY 14ARMES: I'm one of the few people who do live on the lake full time. I'm all
in favor of the dredging. With all due respect to Mrs. Greenfield, if the bulkheads are in
fact protecting it, why have I seen it, in last four years, drying up. The problem with the
restriction and the problem with the traffic is that there is a few hours a day when all the
people who live on the lake and have a right to use it, are trying to get in and out and
that's what's causing the congestion. If it were more free-flowing, we wouldn't have to
all wait for those few hours when we could get in. I believe it would benefit all of us, not
just me, but it would benefit everyone. That's all that we're asking you do..
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: If I could make another point too. I had a bulkheading
expert come and see the area and in response to Ken, you had mentioned that you had
seen all that white sand flowing around out there and moving back and forth outside the
mouth of the canal, I had originally had a groin extending about 20' beyond the lower
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bulkheading on the beach and that has been destroyed by various ice storms and when we
had that, when it was working, there was much less sand in the canal and there was much
more sand on my beach. I don't know how many years, we just let it go and it had gone
and broken up and I'm wondering if we were able to get that, it's just a low 20' groin
going beyond where you see the original foundation is still there, that that in itself might
prove a stabilizing factor to maintain the depth of the canal. You might want to address
that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I just want to read something that's in the file here. "You
probably notice each year that the canal is slowly filling in and the pond is becoming
more stagnant. As evidenced my large masses of flooding seaweed...if nothing is done
the pond will eventually close itself and become a stagnant smelly area with no water-
life..", it goes on to say about making the lake useable and the property values and the use
of boats and whatnot in the canal. If this sounds familiar, it was written February 25,
1976. So this is not a new issue down here. I think we do, this Board appreciates the
concerns of everyone for the water quality in the lake. I think there's a couple of big
concerns we have one of which is the integrity of the bulkheads next to it and how can
that be resolved.
JIM FITZGERALD: I think the only thing we can do is rely upon the testimony of
experts because it would seem to me the alternative would be to dig them out and see if
they're Ok. In this case, we would be destroying them in the process.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well looking back through the old file, there was mention of,
conditioned on a 1987 permit, that proof of contractor's liability insurance is requested
and a licensed survey showing the depths of water taken prior to the dredging. Some
assurances that if any damage is done to the adjacent property that it will be repaired to
the original state.
JIM FITZGERALD: It would seem that any contractor doing work any place in the
Town, or any place for that matter, if the person hiring him is intelligent enough, he
would ensure that the contractor is responsible for damage he does to any property,
whether it's dredging or putting in a septic system, or building a house, or whatever it is.
It doesn't seem to me that this is an unusual case.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it is in that it's adjacent to it and our objection isn't the
restoration of the water flow. That's one of our biggest concerns we have. Artie, what
do you suggest here as far as assuring that someone is going to be responsible in a case
that a problem does occur here due to either mechanical failure of the bulkheads due to
mishandling equipment or just the fact that once this project is, say it's done perfectly
done perfectly to specs, but the bulkhead couldn't take it and off it goes.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I don't know if it's our position to require it but the people hiring
it should require some sort of...
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it is. It's in the Code. We can't allow them to do anything
that would undermine...
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well require a bond.
TRUSTEE KING: We have a time frame we have to worry about too. It could collapse 6
months down the road.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: You can require they maintain a bond for a year, a year after the
completion of the work. Somebody's going to have to pay for it so they have to write it
in the contract, but that's one way of doing it.
14
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that something that would be acceptable to the applicant?
JERRY CASE: Well we would have to understand the different costs but on the face of
it, certainly. We want to assure the people on either side that there would be no damage
done to their property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we've been assured that there will be no damage.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: You wouldn't go buy a new car without a guarantee.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we have to see that in writing to protect the adjacent
property owners.
NEIGHBOR: I also live around the lake and I wondering if West Lake Assoc., where
does this actually go around. Do I get a bill at the end of this as a resident?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You might.
NEIGHBOR: Well the other thing that I just want to state is that the Assoc., as living
there for 30 years myself, this problem has always occurred. The other thing, if you do
dredge it, you're inviting commercial fisherman to come in and take the shellfish.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it's not their shellfish though. It's public property. It's my
opinion anyway, that by keeping the water flow open, you keep the whole area, you're
basically you're maintaining the status quo and the health of the estuary there. The more
you restrict the flow, and it's not a natural system, you have a bulkhead on either side and
we've seen this all over Town, you put two bulkheads, you've never seen a straight
channel anywhere in the world in nature. Man tries to restrict his environment to suit his
needs and it never works. So, you never have a straight channel and of course,you put
the bulkheads up, and it wants to fill itself in. You can see the channel doesn't run
straight there now, it's pushed to one side. You're fighting nature there and it's going to
be a constant source of maintenance on the structures, on the dredging, on the amount of
sand coming in and there are no guarantees that if this is dredged, suppose you have a
storm, you might get one boating season out of it. It could fill in right away.
NEIGHBOR: The lake wasn't designed for some of the boats that these people are
moving in and out of that channel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well that's a different problem but the depth of the lake is going
to be the limiting factor there also, not just the depth of the channel.
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: With all due respect, the commercial fisherman have a
much better track record for safety when they come in, they are very careful, and they are
very respectful. I worry about the other people who come in flying through, and for the
record, where on the beach where my family all swims, they do not maintain the
minimum 100' from the shoreline. I'm always out there yelling my lungs out. Some of
them will listen and they'll think about it and do it once and next time they're back to
speeding. That's our problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I can't answer to the bay. We don't have control over the
speed limit out in the bay. Within Town waters we have a 5 mile an hour speed limit.
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: I'm talking about the canal. Speeding directly into the
canal at full gun.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well give you a toll gate too.
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: But, you don't see commercial people doing that.
CATHERINE BARBADO: I have in my possession here a letter addressed to Edward
Brennan, the Vice President of the so-called West Lake Assoc. which is dated in 1990. I
would like to know if they require all new permits for doing this thing here because it
15
says here, if you wish to make use of other permits, they can only be transferred by
approval of the Town Trustees after consulting the Town Attorney. Now,the private
meeting that we had where the Town Attorney addresses all these permits that were
obtained, that is the reason I am requesting a review where all the members could share
it. If you can't find your files, I have my files at home. I thank you again.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What is the date on that letter ma'am?
JOE BARBADO: I have been hearing a lot of comments about the mosquitoes but
anybody knows (can't understand)the concept of mosquitoes is hypothetical as far as I'm
concerned. Something else I'd like to bring to you. The Peconic Bay Estuary, were their
authorities informed on this?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which authority is that?
JOE BARBADO: Peconic Bay Estuary.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know of any authority like that.
JOE BARBADO: They are trying to protect Peconic Bay.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I thought that was our job.
JOE BARBADO: We'll there are other townships that are all combined.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we keep in touch with Southampton Trustees and the East
Hampton Trustees but I don't know about any other authority besides the DEC, that
would have jurisdiction in Peconic Bay.
JOE BARBADO: Well there is such a thing as the Peconic Bay Estuary. It's on the
federal docket also to protect that.
TRUSTEE KING: But it doesn't have any sort of regulatory authority of any type. It's a
study of the bay.
JOE BARBADO: Well I think they should be notified of what's going on because you
are protruding the dredging into the bay. I thought I would bring your attention to it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well the bay is owned by NY State.
JOE BARBADO: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Another problem, well it's just a question I wouldn't say a
problem, is as you come in, if your coming in from the bay into the West Lake, there's
that illegal bulkhead on the left hand side, who owns that property there?
JIM FITZGERALD: It's privately owned.
JOE BARBADO: Nobody owns that. It belongs to the Town.
JIM FITZGERALD: According to the tax map, it's privately owned by, can we look at
the tax map?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Go ahead.
JIM FITZGERALD: It's here and belongs to this piece of property and extends into here.
Based on that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It would be better to see a survey because the tax map isn't
always the most accurate. What the last speaker said, that illegal jetty, that old one there,
and the resultant fill there, if that were removed also, besides the bar, would that increase
the water flow there and make, I mean if we could do.something like that, if you could
decrease the amount,...maybe everyone should hear this since everyone is here for this,
we're talking about that illegal structure that's built on the inside of the lake as you come
in on the left hand side and the spoil placed behind that, now if part of that were removed,
there seems to be some kind of feeling that it would increase the flushing action which
16
would of course maintain the salinity and channel depth in there, and then the resulting
fact would that it would have to be dredged less frequently.
JIM FITZGERALD: I think one of the speakers indicated that before that magic
bulkhead existed, everything was Ok.
JOE BARBADO: It was.
JIlVI FITZGERALD: See.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm glad we have this on tape because we would never believe it.
CATHERINE BARBADO: I have four children and at the time that they were small,
they would dive into the canal and the water was so deep that I as afraid that the children
6 years and under and that the depth of that water was over 6' if not more. In fact they
fished in there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But is that something that we should maybe explore as part of
this.
JIM FITZGERALD: If that's what we need to get the permit, then I would think so, yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I mean I think it might be advantageous to everyone to do
the project correctly and then you might not have to keep maintenance dredging it. You
might not have to keep revisiting this and that would make me happy.
JIM FITZGERALD: It's one of those things. You never know what mother nature is
going to do. We have a expert testimony that before it was there, things were better.
Presumably, if we were to take it out things would get better again.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't think there's a guarantee that it would get better. I
don't think it would get worse, but there's a possibility that they would get better. What
you have there, and we never considered it when we were in the field, but now that it was
mentioned, that does restrict the flow as it comes into the lake.
JIM FITZGERALD: It has all that gook on it too.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It does have a lot of gook on it which we were concerned about
also.
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: We originally had white sand there before that was built.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't know if gook is the right word but there's something
there that's on the beach that is preventing any sort of vegetative growth there. There
should be a healthy marsh fringe there and there's not. There's something that's coating
the beach and the rock. It looks like something was dumped there. That area was
concerning us and that area is going to part of some sort of replanting after it anyway.
JOE BARBADO: Replanting? You should eliminate it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well that's what we're discussing.
JOE BARBADO: A normal body of water, per say gallon flowing through, and by
eliminating that, instead of going around in circles, the current of water is hitting the
bulkhead where Moi is at and goes out. That's what was happening prior to until they put
this thing in. When they put this thing in, it changed the whole concept. You could just
pull it up or they could just cut it off at the sand line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well if you were going to go... I don't know if that would be that
big a deal to pull that up. That's not the most substantial structure there. Then you could
really do a better job opening that up. We would have to go out on the site and take a
look at it and see how much you would want to open that up. I have a question from the
contractor.
17
JOE EDGAR: One of the things we considered on your site inspection was to remove the
material that is non-conducive to vegetation. If we could excavate that, perhaps remove
that bulkhead or open that area up, stabilize it with a biodegradable fiber-log which
which would basically rot away within 2 to 3 years but give vegetation the ability to
establish. Then you could remove the old stuff, replenish it with some of the spoil, utilize
the bio-log, vegetate it, open it up in contour, that could all become part of the dredging
process. It's relatively simple and it's effective.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Another thing we...well as far as the'placement of the dredge
spoil that hasn't been completely answered, we have on the east side, could you put any
on both sides or is it limited to the east side, in your opinion?
JOE EDGAR: You can put it anywhere you like. Mr. Moi was concerned until he talked
to his contractor as to the affects of it and after our meeting he was welcoming whatever
fill I could put there. I never had an opportunity to meet Mrs. Greenfield. I'm not sure
how she feels about sand placement in front of her place. The only reason I thought that
area on the inside would be temporary source and would give you the ability to excavate
the old engine block, that black material, and what you see there, and replenish it with
some of the cleaner fill directly inside the canal. If it is in fact Town owned and you have
the ability to remove that structure and shape some kind of contour to widen it, it's a very
simple task.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why my question was, who owns the property. Ok, that's
what we have to find out. If it is Town owned, we can authorize that.
CATHERINE BARBADO: May I address that? At one time when we were talking to
Mr. (can't understand)when this so-called ramp was put in there and he received a letter
from the Board of Trustees asking him to remove it. He told us that he wrote a letter
back to the Trustees saying to give him the deed of the property and I will remove it.
That property belongs to the original Cedar Beach Assoc. and it's just a part of the Assoc.
that no longer is in there. When West Lake Assoc. was formed, I don't know what right
they had to take the 50' at the other end and also the piece of land that we're talking
about now. That's up to you Trustees to decide.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're going to need to see a survey on that parcel.
CATHERINE BARBADO: I'd like to emphasize again, I would like you to review the
meeting that we had private with the Trustees on the recommendation of the Town
Board.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well what would that be in regard to? Why would we review that
meeting from 1990?
CATHERINE BARBADO: Because it contains information that is very relevant to this
dredging, especially if they want to use the same permits.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well they don't. They're seeking new permits.
CATHERINE BARBADO: They're seeking new permits?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's right.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Well if they are seeking new permits I believe that you
should give us time that the residents around should get together and inform themselves
of this particular meeting and then come to their own conclusion as to the way it should
be done.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that's what's happening now though.
CATHERINE BARBADO: Well I don't have any proof to show you.
18
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Proof of what though? So we'll make a motion to Table the
application and, go ahead Ken.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The 600 cy. How did you arrive at that number. Was it a
guess?
JOE EDGAR: It was an estimated guess based on profiles.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We have a calculation sheet showing .A, .B., with numbers
and a diagram.
JOE EDGAR: We can't produce it. I don't know. Did you bring a survey? We can be
more precise.
JIN4 FITZGERALD: Ken, what is it that you want?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Calculations. How many cubic yards of material. It says 600
but that could be just a guess.
JIM FITZGERALD: That's on the survey.
JOE EDGAR: The yardage was based on the topographical data established for the
survey.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Okay. That's what I wanted to see.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm going to make a motion to Table the application. I'd like the
applicant to, well the applicant can if they want to, to look through the old file here,
there's old insurance policies holding the Town not liable to any damages, going back to
1987, or anything you want to refer to out of the old file. We need some sort of bond
posted that's going to satisfy the neighbors, as far as the integrity of their structures,
during dredging and then a new plan showing an enlargement of the dredging project and
replanting of the wetland fringe on the left-hand side, I guess you would call it the
western side of the inside of the inlet, and removal of that old illegal bulkhead and jetty
there.
JOE EDGAR: I have some information on the shoreline stabilization.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well familiar with them thanks. What we need to know is the
final scope of the project, I mean there's quite a bit of leeway there and we want to make
sure that it's going to be done correctly, as far as enlarging the project to that left side in
relation to water depth there. Then you can contact Mrs. Greenfield about putting spoil
up on her side if that's acceptable to her or just to have a place-to put the spoil.
JOE BARBADO: If the Town owns that parcel that you're referring to on the northwest
corner, that includes the ramp that's interfering with it too?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That we don't know. We're going to find that out though.
JOE BARBADO: I would appreciate it if that is looked into.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We will. I have a motion to Table the hearing. Do I have a
second?
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
8. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of WILLIAM PENNEY requests a Wetland Permit
to raise existing garage and construct new first floor under; no change in existing
footprint of structure. Raise existing shed/boathouse and construct new first floor under;
no change in footprint of structure. Add covered porch 10'X 43' on concrete or concrete
block foundation. Remove existing wood deck and in same footprint construct 21'X 24'
full height addition to house on concrete or concrete block foundation. Add 13'X 41'
19
conservatory on concrete or concrete block foundation. Add 15'X 41' wood deck on
CCA-treated wood posts. Located: 2200 Hobart Ave., Southold. SCTM#64-3-4
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to briefly comment on this
application?
JIM FITZGERALD: This application is exactly the same as the material that was
covered in the Trustees Permit#4379 which was issued in 1995 and expired 1997. The
property changed hands during that period of time and Bill Penney, the new owner, was
not able to take advantage of the provisions of the permit and he would like to start doing
the work.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to speak about anything
concerning this permit? (changed tape)the CAC also thought that the shed be repaired
inkind or be elevated on piles. We were wondering what the purpose of elevating all of
the sheds and making them into second-story buildings?
JIM FITZGERALD: You mean as opposed to building on top?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, as opposed to not doing anything, I guess.
JIM FITZGERALD: Well he would like to have a two-story structure.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Above the 10' contour. Doesn't he fall under the FEMA
regulations on having to raise that anyway, above mean high water?
JIM FITZGERALD: No. It hasn't entered into any of the activities so far. I don't think it
applies to accessory structures.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Maybe it's only the house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is different, the CAC is right.
JIM FITZGERALD: What is different?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we have an approved plan from 1994 but it doesn't include
raising those two garages up at all.
JIM FITZGERALD: It includes adding a second-story.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, one only a gamble roof and one a dormer. Dormers added to
existing garage to provide second floor storage space and the other one is a gamble roof
added to existing boat house. So, we have a number of concerns, here. Mainly that the
structures are basically in the wetlands and the other one is directly adjacent to it. The
material from some sort of minor excavation has been already pushed in the wetlands
there. We would like to see that addressed.
JIM FITZGERALD: Material in the wetlands.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Now is there any proposed grading at all on site? Besides what's
already been done.
JIM FITZGERALD: No. I don't think there are any changes in the grade of the property
as proposed. I think what he wants to do is end with two two-story accessory structures
that meet the zoning requirements and are in the same footprint as the original structures.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: No bathroom?
JIM FITZGERALD: No bathroom.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What's submitted here is not an accurate wetland line because
what's shown is an existing wood bulkhead, is not a functional bulkhead. This is actually
something that's fictional. This here. The wetland line actually, which we would have to
have it shown on the survey, actually comes up right up against this building and almost
underneath it. After one season, of course, it will be growing up right underneath it. We
would like to see that corrected here. Is this actually a survey?
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JIM FITZGERALD: No, this is a project plan.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So I guess we should see the wetland line depicted accurately on
the survey and we don't consider this wood bulkhead functional and we wouldn't want to
rely on it as a functional bulkhead, or see any fill placed behind it.
JIM FITZGERALD: It was not shown what the intention of securing or reliance on it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay because we didn't see it and then we noticed it on the
survey and we had some difficulty in finding it. Did you ever see it?
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes. Well I saw it in 1994. But, it wasn't easy to find then.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't know what kind of, or what else he's going to construct
in there, or how much demolition he's going to do beyond what's he's done, but I think
we should put some hay bales up where he's working now. He had those piles of dirt
which actually went into the phragmites.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Now how does, well maybe I'm just missing this here, is there
some sort of work plan? How does he propose to construct the first-story underneath
those garages?
JIM FITZGERALD: An application into the Building Dept. with plans. Would you like
to see them?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well the reason we're concerned is that you can't just place it
there. You have to do excavation and whatnot and move material around.
JIM FITZGERALD: He's going to put it on cinder blocks.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then you have to put a footing, excavation for a footing, I would
think.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: 3' below grade.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We need assurances that the marsh won't be affected any more
than necessary there.
JIM FITZGERALD: We always have to assurances.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have those plans with you?
JIM FITZGERALD: No I don't. Besides, they wouldn't show that anyhow.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do we have any other concerns? One of the concerns was that
this was going to turn into a residence. Second-story residence.
JIM FITZGERALD: How about the answer to the question is, there's not going to be a
bathroom in it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah because we don't want to see any water put out into it or a
septic system or anything like that. That would be a condition of the permit that there
would be no water, running water.
JIM FITZGERALD: There may be water in it now, but there will not be a bathroom.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think there's water in it now. Where would it go?
JIM FITZGERALD: I don't know. That stuff has been there a long time, as you can tell
by what appears to be the septic tank right between those two structures and it's like 10'
from the wetlands.
TRUSTEEE KRUPSKI: We didn't see that.
JIM FITZGERALD: It had a concrete cover.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm glad you mentioned that. Thank you. We can condition the
removal of that.
JIM FITZGERALD: It may be that the septic system is serving the house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well they show a new septic system proposed here.
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JIM FITZGERALD: I don't know if that was installed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But it's proposed on the plan that we received, so we assume
that...
JIM FITZGERALD: Well that was the plan that was submitted with the original
application for both the Trustees and the DEC.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have it stamped March 31, 2000.
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes. Revised. However, the items we're talking about are those
which are referred to on the map as the upland construction activities because also
included in the original proposal was replacement of that other bulkhead and the building
of the dock which happened.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We did notice that. Is everyone satisfied then?Do I have a
motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: How do we feel about this one?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well if it's just storage and an office with no water, remove the
septic, it shouldn't have any...you have two building there already, it shouldn't ...
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Non-disturbance?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What I would call for, let's keep the meeting open, would be to
place the accurate wetland line on the survey and to put up hay bales at it. No soil is to
be brought in or re-grading of any kind, remove what is shown on here as an existing
wood bulkhead, it is more of debris than...it's not functional. Remove the existing septic
system on the north side of the asphalt driveway, and no disturbance on the seaward side
or the wetland side of the of the new wetland line. Hay bales at the wetland line.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Where is the no-disturbance line?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: At the hay bales which is what it is now. How far along are you
with the DEC Permit if I may ask.
JIM FITZGERALD: The Permit is still valid. The original is 5 years.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So now do I have a motion to go off the public hearing? Close
the public hearing?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with the following
conditions: before a permit is issued, we receive a survey with an accurate wetland line
drawn on it. Hay bales be placed on the new wetland line before any other work is done.
What is shown as an old wood bulkhead on the north side of the property be removed:
No grading is to be taking place except and no fill brought in and that the septic system
on the north side of the asphalt driveway is to be removed and that no septic or water
service can be used in either of the two garage, which is noted as garage/storage areas or
existing shed areas.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
9. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of DEBORAH POLIDORA requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a fixed open walkway 4'X 100', hinged aluminum ramp 2.5'X 20',
and floating dock 6'X 20'; install two 2-pile dolphins to secure floating dock. Relocate
existing gazebo approx. 10' landward. Reshape the face of the bottom terrace to reduce
angle, to minimize run-off and erosion. Plant the banks with rosa rugosa, to be sheared
low, seaward of a line between tree on E side to the present location of gazebo. Plant the
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area between bottom of the lowest terrace and the existing spartina alterniflora with
American beach grass. Located: 1055 Point Pleasant Rd., Mattituck. SCTM#114-1-1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
JIM FITZGERALD: Everything except the dock is what the Trustees and their
inspection decided needed to be done in order to assist in the restoration of the landward
side of the Polidora's property to the way it is perceived as having been.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak on behalf of this
application or against it? Our concerns were two-fold on this. One, is on the dock,
which...what was your comment on the dock?
TRUSTEE KING: I think it should be moved to the west about 35'.
JIM FITZGERALD: To the west. About how far?
TRUSTEE KING: Maybe 35'.
JIM FITZGERALD: Why is that?
TRUSTEE KING: Because there is much less wetland there and there's a little bite that
comes in there. Maybe you can get away with a shorter dock. Did you take any
soundings because I didn't have a change to.
JIM FITZGERALD: Not where you're talking about. There's 3' at the end of the
structure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Another concern we had is that these restorations plans might not
match what the DEC is requiring. We think it would be better for everyone if the
restoration plan that we permit and the restoration plan the DEC permits are going to
match and are identical. We'd rather wait until the DEC approves their plans and we'll
review that and then we can approve our plans. They can all come together as one
restoration plan and then we don't want the Polidoras stuck in the middle of two different
permits and so if we could Table this until next month.
JIM FITZGERALD: Could we act on the dock?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'd rather meet with you on that and move it over to a better
location.
RIM FITZGERALD: Do we need to meet?
TRUSTEE KING: We won't have to. I'll go take soundings if you don't want to do it.
JIM FITZGERALD: That would be wonderful. It's not that I don't want to do it. Do
you want me there?
TRUSTEE KING: Well as long as you believe my soundings, I have no problem.
JIM FITZGERALD: No, fine.
TRUSTEE KING: I can assure you they'll be accurate.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Table the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
10. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of C&D REALTY requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a single-family dwelling with private well and on-site sewage disposal system.
Located: 3640 Cox Neck Rd., Matttituck. SCTM#113-4-1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone here like to speak in favor of the application?
JIM FITZGERALD: I know you need and want a new and better and accurate survey but
unfortunately my surveyor is in Maryland and I wasn't able to bring it along.
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TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well is there any other comment on this application since we
have the public hearing open? I'll make a motion to Table the public hearing until we get
all of our information.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
11. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of MARK MCDONALD requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a single-family residence with pool and attached garage.
Located: 1030 Clearview Rd., Southold. SCTM#89-3-11.3
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're going to open this hearing. This is an application that was
not staked in the field and the Board visited the site last week but it was not staked and
we did not know where the applicant proposed to construct the house and if there's no
comment from anyone, I'll make a motion to Table the hearing on this until we have it
staked.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
12. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of FRANCES E. NIELSEN requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a deck, pool, patio, retaining wall, pool equipment shed, backwash, leaching
pool and regrade area of pool. Located: East End Rd., Fishers Island. SCTM#5-1-8
POSTPONED AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST
13. DANIEL C. MOONEY requests a Wetland Permit to construct a one-family dwelling,
foundation, septic system, driveway, water well if required or hook-up to public water,
retaining wall for septic system, and proposed decks. Located: 295 Rabbit Lane, East
Marion. SCTM#31-71-11
DANIEL MOONEY: I think the application is fairly straight-forward. Several years ago
made an application and you had given me an approval for it. This is a modification of
that. It comes a little closer to Marion Lake with respect to the deck. The difficulty you
have with the Health Dept. is the house itself is a little further than what it was before
because there is a deck on the front of the house and you cannot place the septic system
any closer than 10' from the edge of the deck. That is the reason it goes back a little bit
further. The house is still 74' from the Lake. The deck is 59' from the lake. Other than
that, it's similar to the prior plan that we had, and you had approved before and the DEC
also approved it. I don't know if you have a copy of the DEC approval from 1996. If
you don't, I can hand that out to you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll look. We might have it. Is there any other comment while
I'm looking?
DANIEL MOONEY: Here's an extra copy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. I have something from them in 1995.
DANIEL MOONEY: I believe also that we will not have to put in a well then we will be
eligible to get public water. There is public water on that street and I've written a letter
to the SCWA asking to hook up. When they first had put the main in, I had signed up
and paid for the tap and everything else and they came and said that you can't have it
because you don't have a house on the lot yet. I explained I was getting a permit for it
and they said get the permit and come back. I presume that they'll let us hook-up to
public water.
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TRUSTEE FOSTER: They still presently have a moratorium on new construction.
They're not hooking up any new construction.
DANIEL MOONEY: I know that but they'll do it for a hardship. We made our
application based on that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On this application, the CAC recommends.Disapproval because
of their concern with the elevated septic system. Our concern, on field inspection, was
that the proximity to the Lake, we would rather see the house in line with the neighbor's
houses, pulled back a little bit so everything is going to have the same affect on the Lake.
DANIEL MOONEY: It's only about a 4' or 5' difference.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we noticed a 16' difference in the field. We measured it
out. We were all out there last week.
DANIEL MOONEY: The difficulty is, with a 16' difference, you mean from the deck or
the house?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I recall from the plans, I was on the line, and then I went to the
house, and it was in line, and there was about a 10' difference, as I recall. There was a
10' difference from where you had the line on the Lake, and then move it back 10' and
you would've been in line with the other houses.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Deck to deck.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No,the house. We try to keep the houses in line so nobody
takes advantage of the view or otherwise you could ask for 20' closer to the Lake and .
take everyone else's view.
DANIEL MOONEY: I understand that. The difficulty is that I need the room in the front
because of the septic system and to have an appropriate septic system, there's going to be
a wall around the septic system as well, to make sure there is no problem with pollution
in case there is any flooding there. The Health Dept. requires that. You may have in
your file too, from several years ago, there was at that time, also on the proposal, the
difference in the house and it was (can't hear) and at that time I believe you approved it.
I'll show it to you.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Is this your own lot. Your own house?
DANIEL MOONEY: Yes it is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is this it?
DANIEL MOONEY: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That doesn't show a deck.
DANIEL MOONEY: I didn't have a deck on that plan at that time. The house you'll
notice is different. It's still set back and you approved that at that time.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 1994, well that was a different Board. This house is different
you say?
DANIEL MOONEY: No, this is the same house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you go house to house here, I think then-you're talking about
roughly the 10' that's out in front. We would like to keep them all in line. That's always
been our standard practice.
DANIEL MOONEY: Well suppose I cut down the deck in the front. Suppose I cut
down both decks and took 6' off each one and made them 10' decks. That would give
you 12'.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
DANIEL MOONEY: I'll do that.
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TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the
hearing?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with the condition
that the distance between the finished deck and Lake be increased by 12'. Instead of
showing 59' it would go to 71'.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
14. VINCENT & BARBARA CLAPS request a Wetland Permit to place (2) 6'X 20'
floating docks parallel to property against existing bulkhead, a 30"X 10' wood ramp
going down existing concrete ramp to handrail, (2) 10"X 25' pilings to support floats, (1)
4'X 5' landing platform to handrail and 100' of bulkhead. Located: 450 Snug Harbor
Rd., Greenport. SCTM#35-5-33
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone here like to speak in favor of or against the
application? Ken, you looked at this?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yeah I looked at it: He has some work to do. He has to fix up
his non-turf buffer. Right now he has decking that extends, it's about a 4' wide deck that
comes back on the lawn. Under it he has asphalt. So, he has asphalt going up to the
bulkhead with decking and he filling it with dirt.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On top of the asphalt?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: On top of the asphalt, under the deck. He's trying to stabilize
his platform walking.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So is all of this there?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It's a mess right now. He's doing it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He should remove the asphalt.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: He should remove everything and have a 10' non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But he can have the decking right?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yeah, if he keeps his planking spaced. He has to go '/2"
spacing between boards. That would be fine. That's 4' and then add another 6' non-turf
buffer. One float is fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is this a dug canal?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yeah, it's a dug canal but he's unfortunately in the best spot of
it. He's above an area which is loaded with shellfish, which again, the floats on top of
shellfish affect our bottom land by basically killing them off.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He has no floats there?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: He has nothing there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The bulkhead is there?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The bulkhead is there, the ramp is there, everything is there.
Just no floats.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to Approve to place (1) 6'X 20' float,with
a 10' non-buffer above the bulkhead and the asphalt should be removed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The 10' non-turf buffer can include the 4' walkway.
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TRUSTEE POLIWODA: He's got a project. He's filling over the top of the asphalt
underneath. He's going to have to rip the deck up, the deck is shot.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's just going to flush right in, isn't it. So we have the removal
of the asphalt and he can replace the deck. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
15. HENRY & SUSAN RUGGIERO requests a Wetland Permit for an existing 60' floating
dock with a metal ramp and for an existing bulkhead. Located: 425 Calves Neck Rd.,
Southold. SCTM#63-7-29.1
TRUSTEE KRUP SKI:I Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the
application? Now we spoke to her and we reached an agreement on the pile placement
and...is that in writing anywhere.
LAUREN STANDISH: Yes, there was a letter sent to Angelo Stepnoski.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Reading letter from Trustees to Angelo'Stepnoski.. In other words,
the piles on the right side of the dock are going to go. They're essentially gone anyway.
So, I need a motion to close the Public Hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Approve the application'following the
description in the letter to Mr. Stepnoski, March 22, 2000 that he may repair the dock,
place the(2) 2-pile dolphins to hold the float in place, repair or replace the remaining
piles on the left side of the dock, replace the ramp, repair or replace the remaining piles
on the left side of the dock, replace the ramp but eliminate the piles on the right side of
the dock as you look at it from the house.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
16. DAVID KELLERAN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 3'X 30' seasonal dock.
Located: 570 Richmond Rd. East., Southold. SCTM#135-376
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone he who would like to speak in favor of or against
the application?
DAVID KELLERAN: I'd like to do a typical dock, catwalk, ramp and float. I'd like to
start the dock at the high-tide mark.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ken, did you look at this?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I looked at this for a 3'X 30' seasonal dock. I didn't want to
approve it but since you put in a quotation that you wanted a seasonal dock I figured no
problem. Now you're coming here tonight and you're asking for a float, ramp, and the
whole nine yards. That's a little different.
DAVID KELLERAN: It is a little different. It's a little different because...Well I'm ,
trying to think of the different ways a dock can be. I don't really care how it is. I just
want a dock. Either it can lay on the soil. I was thinking of putting wheels on the bottom
of it so I can drag it out one way or the other. I really don't know that much about docks.
I was thinking that I could put wheels on it so I can pull it on the pick-up to take it out. It
can either lay on the soil, the only way I know docks go is either on the soil or the other
thing I see, when I look out from the water,there are three part docks. I don't know of
any other option.
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TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well you need to show us some sort of a plan of exactly what
you want though so we would be able to review this.
DAVID KELLERAN: Well if what you were think of was Ok., what were you
visualizing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: 4'X 4' seasonal stick dock 3' wide, 30' long off your bulkhead
and then after your boating season, pull it out.
DAVID KELLERAN: I was thinking of pulling it out to preserve the dock. What is the
stick?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: 4'X 4's You can basically bang them in yourself and have
pieces and in the fall (changed tape)that would be a seasonal stick dock in my mind.
DAVID KELLERAN: I was looking at a model. As you look at the pond to the left,
there was a dock that they pulled out. I would just copy-cat their construction.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Well that's a full dock.
DAVID KELLERAN: Well I want to do it simple. Actually, if I saw what you were
talking about, I can kind of half visualize it, and I'm sure it would be fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you like, we could Approve that based on you submitting plans
on what it's actually going to look like.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: 3'X 30' and pulled out by November 15. Would you be done
by then?
DAVID KELLERAN: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's another comment though.
WALTER BUSH: I'm in the community with Mr. Kellernan. It's a community of none
homes from Richmond Rd: East. It runs between the North Rd. and Arshamomaque
Pond. The community is a summer community of nine homes one of which is Mr.
Kellernan's and one is mine. I'm the only one that happens to be year-around resident
and that is the reason for my presence here. I'm not here to either in a positive or negative
mode about this request for dock on Mr. Kellernan's property. My main reason for
being here is because my other neighbor's are either in Florida, or Massachusetts, or
some other place. When the Spring comes and there's a dock there, they'll ask me what
happened and so forth. So, we're all good friends and I want it to remain that way, so
that's the reason for my presence. I had an opportunity to talk to Mr. Kellernan earlier
this evening about some reservation I had. You already discussed here a few minutes ago
about the dock structure, and my reservation is that there are none in there now and that
traditionally the small boats we have tied up there now on steel pole off,-shore, anchored
on a line to steel pole on the.shore. So,this would be a replacement of it. My reservation
is I came to the Southold Trustee office and say the sketch of it yesterday and it looked
like a permanent type dock and there is one such dock in the community east of
Richmond Rd. East but that is out serving the East Winds Condominium of 10 units. It's
a structure that expands the beach up to the upland area and there is no ability to go from
one side of that dock to the other. Traditionally people of the community, Richmond
East, felt free to walk along the shore and pick up scallop shells and so forth and pick up
scallop shells and so forth and kids would go back and forth. It isn't what you would call
a bathing beach. Sometimes that happens but it's a free travel along the shore so for may
be less than '/a mile, and I'm concerned that if a dock expands that area to the upland area
that it would leave the upland people...there are 4 waterfront homes that wouldn't be
affected, the rest of the community, their chances to the pond on Richmond Rd. East, and
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it ends in a small part, maybe 25'X 40' and there's a small ramp for launching small
boats. So what would happen if permanent type docks expand that beach area, it would
be a very little area to the other 5 homes in the community. As I say, I spoke to Mr.
Kellernan earlier, and I feel from that conversation, that this would.be a seasonal dock
that would float in the water, it would not come ashore on piers or piles or anything else,
there would be free access on the beach. That is the only reason for my being here and I
thank you for your time.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could you please, if you could, answer me one brief question?
The'dock that you mentioned from the Condominiums, what is the name of that? East
Wind? Because they should have stairs so that people can go up their dock and then
down again.
WALTER BUSH:. Well the floating part of it, is that what you're talking about?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No the part that goes on the upland so people, like you said,
walking along the shore should be able to go up on little stairs and go across it and down
again and continue on.
WALTER BUSH: Well you are more or less trespassing on private property when you
do that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No because when.they cross that they're cutting off your riparian
rights of egress along the foreshore.
WALTER BUSH: Could you walk under it standing up?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know. I haven't seen it? Could you look that up and I'll
write them a letter requesting that they put stairs there. They should have stairs. Thank
you.
WILLIAM MOBLEY: We have lived in this community since 1963. There are 4 houses
here that have waterfront property. If we allow them to start building these ramps, where
are our kids and our grandchildren going to play. They have played here for all of these
years. Where will they be able to play? This high water mark listed here is not true. That
water goes up to that cement. Where is he going to put this ramp and for what reason
would you need a 30' ramp to tie a boat to? This community, there's a road next to that
which is a community road that about 35' wide, now if all four houses here decide to put
ramps in, where is this beach going to be. There will be no more beach is this goes up to
that mark, the high-water mark, which.is higher than what your diagram is showing, and
the ramp that they were talking about was dredged and that is a permanent structure.
What he is talking about is a floating ramp, is not what you're describing, it's totally
different. The other people could not be here because they do live out of State. I drove
tonight an hour and a half to get here just for this meeting because I am concerned about
this. I think everyone else would be concerned if they had the chance to be here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we're going to take another look at this.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'd like to back up a minute and ask the applicant a question.
What size boat do you have?
DAVID KELLERNAN: 16'
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Would it cause any problem to have an offshore or onshore
stake?
DAVID KELLERNAN: No,that wouldn't cause a problem.
E 1 t
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TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That is what is used throughout that creek. A lot of baymen
use it, a lot of homeowners use it. It's just one pole out offshore and one pole inshore.
Four by four.
WILLIAM MOBLEY: Don't get me wrong, I mean he's a nice neighbor and all but
we've been in this community for a long time. I bought this house from my mother-on-
law after they passed away and I don't want to see these changes being made that's going
to hurt this area and that's what we always had was poles for our boats. It always worked
very well and we never had a problem. In fact, when they rot out, you replace them but
at least you're not interfering with everybody else's use of the beach too. No one is
going to be able to walk on that beach.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why we have the public hearing sir.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: How do you feel,about the onshore/offshore pole?
WILLIAM MOBLEY: That's fine. You can take it out and replace. In the winter it does
come out quite often too.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's more of a seasonal thing than a dock actually.
WILLIAM MOBLEY: Not only that but there's 9 other bungalows there, or homes
there. If everybody put a ramp in, there would be nothing left. No one could enjoy that.
You wouldn't have access to that beach or anything which is only a small area now. But
all of our kids have grown up there through the years and I think all of the other families
would be against it also. That's just my personal opinion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
DAVID KELLERNAN: Just two things. One is, I'm not quite sure what the ramp is that
he's speaking about. There is a cement ramp that goes down to the water. In the stick
formation, stick dock, do I have a ramp with that?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No.
DAVID KELLERNAN: So there would be no ramp. The access where the cement ramp
is that goes down, where I showed the dock on the drawing is sort of in the middle of the
property because more people come down the cement ramp because it's easy access. I
could move,the ramp over farther away from that access point. People tend to come
down and sit on the beach right in this area because it also happens to be the sandiest
area. So that's one solution.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think you would be further ahead with an onshore/offshore
stake.
DAVID KELLERNAN: Well this whole situation started with the onshore/offshore
stake. I had one but my permit expired. I went to renew it and I guess there is a year or
two waiting list. So I thought, what about a dock.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Well you own that property directly in front don't you?
DAVID KELLERNAN: Yes I do.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Getting that would not be a problem.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think the problem that came up with onshore/offshore stakes
in there is because shellfish revive in there. But, you own a private home on that creek. .I
don't see a problem with the stake. It would probably save you a $150.00 on your permit
application too.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we could put that money towards the stake. We could give
you a refund.
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DAVID KELLERNAN: So that's my original reason. I was thinking about the dock
idea and now it's in my head because I couldn't have a stake. I definitely would be
happy if I could at least have a stake out of this.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we could give you a stake tonight but the dock we can't
give you tonight because there have been some real questions raised here where we'd
have to go and revisit the site as a whole board next month.
DAVID KELLERNAN: Could we just review what the questions are about the dock.
I'm very happy about the stake.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well there's a shellfish issue. There's also the beach access issue
and the actual location.
DAVID KELLERNAN: I would think if there were shellfish, I would prefer to have a
dock because when we actually, when there is a stake, when you walk out to get to the
boat over 10' and in water especially on shellfish, if footsteps are more than one foot
apart and you walk 10' out,that's l0 steps out, 3' below the(can't hear) on a ski.boat, 3
steps out 30 steps back, 3 times a day that's a 100 steps 2 days a week, that's 200 steps,
that's about a 1000 steps over 6 months, that's 6000 steps more than you would be taking
with a dock on top of shellfish. That's 6000 less steps.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well if you don't want the stake tonight...
DAVID KELLERNAN: Maybe you should give everybody docks instead of stakes.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I really don't think there's an affect by stepping on hard clams
because one of the best hard clam beds was right in front of Gull Pond within the
swimming ring for years. I bet there was probably about 50,000 steps on there. After the
summer was gone and people left, we started clamming in there and that was one of the
better clam beds in all the Bay.
DAVID KELLERNAN: Maybe we should propose this to Cornell.
.TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we'll leave that up to you. If you want to leave here
tonight with a stake and refund, or we could Table this and all go out as a Board and
revisit it in May.
DAVID KELLERNAN:.Well, why don't you give me the stake and then I'll think about
it. Maybe I won't want the dock, I don't know. I have to think about it. There was a
stake, and then there's no stake. Stake but no dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's up to you though.
DAVID KELLERNAN: Can you give me a stake and put the rest of hold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. You'll have to come in and see Lauren and fill out the stake
application and get you a refund check for the balance. I'll make a motion to ...it might
be easier to deny this and then approve a stake. Better yet, if you could give us a letter
than you're going to withdraw this then you could get your money back instead of
denying it and then you don't get your money. Then, we could approve a stake
application subject to you filling out the paperwork tomorrow. We can approve that. I'm
trying to do this just so-the paperwork comes out the easiest for everyone. If we deny it,
you don't get your money back which isn't really fair to you.
DAVID KELLERNAN: Yeah because I'm not sure why you would deny it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just so we could clear everything away to approve the stake.
DAVID KELLERNAN: But it's separate.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, we couldn't give you a dock and a stake on one piece of
property.
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DAVID KELLERNAN: Oh ok. Well whatever you think is best. I'm kind of confused.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to end the public hearing.
_TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What we need from you is a letter to withdraw the dock
application. You can bring that in to Lauren or Charlotte tomorrow and then I need a
motion to Approve a stake and pulley system.
LAUREN STANDISH: He did have a stake but it was cancelled. ,Can we just reinstate
that permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That would be fine. I need a motion to Approve a permit for an
onshore/offshore stake.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make that motion.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
17. DOUGLAS ROSE, SR. & LORRAINE ROSE request a Wetland Permit to create two
(2) lawn areas via terraces (smaller'than present) retained by block walls. Lawn area
would be set level and have contained drainage via drywells. Located: 95 Kimberly
Lane, Southold. SCTM#70-13-20.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
DOUGLAS ROSE: I was the one who put the application in. I've been visited by the
Trustees, I've submitted the paperwork, basically at the suggestion of the Trustees, it's a
three stage application, if I remember correctly what you wanted, was we wanted to put
the two areas of grass, which is less than the grass already that's presently there, with a
retaining wall system and also self-contained drainage system. Also included with this
permit was the eventual replacement of the existing wood bulkhead which by proof has
been there since 1977 or before so it has no application before the DEC and the third part
was to create a burm which, the Town property goes along Pine Neck Rd., which is the
boat ramp, and there was a chain link fence there and I have since planted natural 20' and
30' trees to give us a visual buffer as well as a privacy buffer and I needed permission to
add some soil to what those trees are as bald trees and that is the third.part of the
application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I guess we can address that other matter after. We have no
problem with this do we? Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the
hearing?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to Approve the Wetland Application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The rest of it, is it all contained here in the application?
DOUGLAS ROSE: Yes it is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you see the plans we have here for the french drain along
your property?
DOUGLAS ROSE: That was one of the discussions we had when we had the visitation?
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TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. We followed-up on that. Here are the plans. Take a look at
it. We haven't gotten it through the DEC yet but that's what we propose. Hopefully that
will eliminate the scour in the hole here.
DOUGLAS ROSE: The highway came and put some fill in there and how long it lasts,
we'll see. But, this is obviously our long term solution.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, we appreciate your cooperation on this.
DOUGLAS ROSE: Not a problem. Thank you very much.
18. JOHN A.FANELLI requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4'X 74' fixed dock, 3'X
12' ramp and an 8'X 20' float to moor a small pleasure craft and a kayak. Located: 2227
Indian Neck Lane, Peconic. SCTM#86-5-11.4
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here like to speak in favor of the application.
JOHN FANELLI: We'd like to build this little dock just to access into Richmond Creek.
We have a kayak and a sunfish. I know you gentlemen did visit me last
Wednesday but I couldn't come out and meet you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Our basic concerns for a dock, we have a standard 6'X 20' float.
It's a standard size throughout the whole Town, and that the dock not go out further than
a line drawn between your two neighbors. We aren't exactly sure of the exact length but
we'll put that in the Permit and then your contractor will know that's where it will come
out to, between your two neighbors.
JOHN FANELLI: The DEC already told me about the 6'X 20' instead of the 8'X 20'.
That's fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know if there were any other concerns there. Do you
have the DEC permit already.
JOHN FANELLI: I do not.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: What's the water depth?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It shows between 2 and 2 '/2'.
JOHN FANELLI: Today, Army Corp. of Engineers called and said will I be willing to
put in a chocked float. In other words the float can't go all the way down. Did you ever
hear of such a thing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Those are good. It allows the crabs, as they migrate along the
bank at night...
JOHN FANELLI: The water can go out of the creek and get quite low. I'll do that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On the original house permit there, and I can't remember the
name of the original owner there...
JOHN FANELLI: Sam Esposito.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There was a non-turf placed there are the top and that protects the
creek from lawn run-off. You sort of have like a bare area there but it's non-turf but feel
free to plant in native plants there to naturalize it or landscape..
MRS. FANELLI: Do we need a permit to do that?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You wouldn't really need a permit. Give us a planting...in fact I
have two planting plans I have to review later on tonight. Give us a planting plan, we
don't want to see any re-grading, but you can certainly plant in native species that aren't
going to require a lot of care, but it will look attractive, and keep it sheared low for your
view and everything, but it will...'
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JOHN FANELLI: Can I put lawn on some of that and leave a buffer, let's say 30' from
the top of the slope.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You're going to have to'check your original permit from
Esposito to see what that says. I'm not sure how restrictive we were then.
JOHN FANELLI: I never saw his permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You can call Lauren or Charlotte and find out.
JOHN FANELLI: You don't mean the envelope that's on the prints, blueprints.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It should show on a Trustee Permit from Esposito.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: There should be one from previous.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well may be not. No; it shows 75' from the wetlands. Then
make a copy of the survey and give us a planting plan as far as what you want to do there.
Depending on what it looks like, we may or may not require a permit.
JOHN FANELLI: Just bring it into the office?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just to give you an idea of what we're...it doesn't have to be this
elaborate but it can be. We would like to see no re-grading.
JOHN FANELLI: It is pretty well graded already.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But if you planted that, you'd preserve the bank better. You
don't want the bank to wash in. It's to your advantage to have it planted. For some
reason people think non-turf buffer means you can't have any vegetation there at all.
We'd rather see it planted because it helps stabilize everything.
JOHN FANELLI: Okay. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I need a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: .I'll make a motion to Approve but with a 6'X 20' not to
extend any further than the neighboring docks with stops under the float.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
(No further than 4'X 74' but could be less than. No further than neighbors.)
19. PETER& DEBORAH CONRAD request a Wetland Permit to construct a wood frame,
single-family dwelling, public water, septic system and a gravel driveway. Located: 595
Albo Dr., Laurel. SCTM#126-2-11
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anybody here who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
DEBORAH CONRAD: I don't have anything to say unless you have questions for me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I just have one question. It's our policy, whenever we can, to
keep the houses in line with the neighbors house, so we would like to see the house
moved back to accommodate that. I'm sure if we got a measurement on that. Ok, 5'.
DEBORAH CONRAD: This is what the Building Dept. said the porch had to be in line.
They said I should take the average of each house and that the porch had to be in line
with them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh, they're pushing you back from the front. We're pushing you
back from the wetlands. Do you have house.plans? What's the building setback there?
DEBORAH CONRAD: It's 40'. They said we could average the two neighbors.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do have to go to ZBA for this?
DEBORAH CONRAD: No, not for averaging the two neighbors.
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TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You're lucky this is the last one here.
DEBORAH CONRAD: The neighbors that are to the west, we asked them if they could
see water or anything from their house and they said"no"'so we're not going to interfere
with any kind of view. They said they can't see anything and they have a two-story
house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You see, what we like is, you're next to LaRosa's? You see they
have a nice buffer zone between their house and the wetlands. That's what we're going
to require there. I see you have it 25' with hay bales and silt fence on the survey.
DEBORAH CONRAD: Right. That was a DEC requirement.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We require the same thing. You would basically put that up so
your backyard would look the same and theirs. It would be just naturalized in the back.
DEBORAH CONRAD: The whole yard can be that. I'm sick of,,raking leaves.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright, any other questions? Someone want to make a motion?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to Approve the Wetland Permit with the
stipulation that there's a 25' no-disturbance buffer as shown on the survey.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded.. ALL AYES
V. RESOLUTIONS:
1. Land Use on behalf of GERALD RUPP requests a Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a
one-story addition to an existing single-family dwelling within an existing brick patio
area. Located: 19375 Soundview Ave., Southold. SCTM#51-1-20
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded.
ALL AYES
2. Jill Doherty on behalf of NANCY & PHIL WEBER requests a Coastal Erosion Permit
for a 4' high fence along the top of the bluff approx. 10' down from the bluff line.
Located: 160 The Strand, East Marion. SCTM#21-5-7
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Approve the application upon Trustee Foster's
inspection for a measurement and location, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES
3. NICHOLAS J. & BRIGITTE DEVLIN MAZZAFERRO requests a Grandfather
Permit for a floating dock. Located: 2125 Cedar Lane, East Marion. SCTM#37-4-6
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to go back to the Regular Meeting, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
VI. MOORINGS:
J
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1. BURKE E. LIBURT requests a mooring in Narrow River for a 16' sailboat. Access:
Public.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
2. KENNETH RAAB requests a mooring in Narrow River for a 24' sailboat. Access:
Public
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
3. TAKAMI YAO & MARGARET SMILOW request a mooring in Narrow River for a
19' boat. Access: Public
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
Meeting adjourned at 10:50 PM.
Respectfully submitted by,
Lauren M. Standish, Clerk
Board of Town Trustees
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
DATE&30 HOUR3'30
Town Clerk, Town of Southold,