HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/03/1994-FI 443
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
FISHERS ISLAND
AUGUST 3, 1994
2:00 P.M.
A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Board was held on August
3, 1994 ,at the Fishers Island, New York. Supervisor Wickham opened the
meeting at 2:00 P.M., with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
Present: 'Supervisor Thomas H. Wickham
Councilwoman Alice J. Hussie
Councilman Joseph L. Townsend, Jr.
Councilwoman Ruth D. Oliva
Justice Louisa P. Evans
Town Clerk Judith T. Terry
Town Attorney Laury L. Dowd
Absent: Councilman Joseph J. Lizewski
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: It's always a pleasure for the Board to make our
annual visit to Fishers Island. Some of us are fortunate to be here
several times this year already, and it's a particular pleasure for me to
be here, and to have Louisa Evans' active participation, and support, and
preparation; and all, for this meeting. We have about twenty-five meetings
a year in the Long Island portion of Southold Town, and Louisa comes over
and helps us with it, and today, Louisa, is our one day that she's here,
and we're basically joining her here. It's been a great pleasure to . have
her on the Board, and she's contributed to the entire workings of the
Board far more than some of you may realize from here on Fishers Island.
So, Louisa, it's a pleasure to be with you today here. I'd like to take
just a couple of moments, and introduce some of people who came over with
us on the boat this morning. Today's format was a little bit different
from previous years. In previous years we met, as you know, in the
American Legion, and we've launched into our regular meeting. Today we
had a mixing session. We've had various people. I think there's been.a lot
of activity, and involvement, and explanations, questions and answers in
those different groups over there. So, I'd like to take just a couple of
minutes, and outline who we are, who came over here today. I have to say
I'm rather new at this game, as Supervisor. Some of these people I don't
honestly know very well myself, so I'll refer to them. I'd like to begin
with those of us on the Town Board. Starting off on my right is Alice
Hussie, next to her, Louisa, who you all know, Ruth Oliva, and Joe
Townsend. All- of them, plus Joe Lizewski, who's not here today, who
couldn't come, we comprise the six member Town Board of the Town of
Southold. Flanking us on either end is Laury Dowd, our Town Attorney.
We're very fortunate to have Laury, and she's just a wonderful asset to the
Board. She has helped us in many ways. A person who has been here
more often than any of us, Judy Terry, as our Town Clerk, who continues
her long tradition of competence and assistance to the Board in many
different ways. So, who you're looking at up here is basically is the Town
Board with the Town Clerk, and the Town Attorney. Sitting in the
audience are other people representing the Town of Southold, and I would
444 AUGUST 3, 1994
just .like you to stand very briefly. I'm not going to try to go through
every single person that came over on the boat. It would take too long,
but I 'would like to recognize first, two of the people from our Assessors
Office, the Chairman of the Board of Assessors, Scott Russell, and behind
him another Assessor, Bob Scott. The third Assessor, Darlene Duffy,
isn't here with us today. We also have representative of the Trustees,
John Holzaphel. John; what happened to John? He was here, and he
will be coming back. ' Many of you saw him at the table over there.- John
is our Trustee with us today. In addition to the Trustees we have-. a
member of our CAC, Conservation Advisory Committee of the Town, which
assists the Trustees, and we have Mr. Hagerty. Is he here? He must be
off with John looking at something to do with the Trustees. Several other
Board we have. We have several people from our Zoning Board of Appeals.
I see Jim Dinizio, and Dick Wilton, and Gerry Goehringer, who's the
Chairman. All three sitting together of our Zoning Board of Appeals. We
have a member of our Planning Board Office, Valarie Scopaz, and I
don't think we have anybody from the Planning Board itself. Is that right?
Excuse me. Of course, Ken Edwards. That's the problem you see, when
we're on Long Island we tend to forget about the key people here on Fisher
Island. Ken Edwards, sand of course, Serge Doyen, who's a member of our
Zoning Board of Appeals. Serge, where are you? Right by door, you're
not sitting with the rest of the Zoning Board. In addition, we have, as I
mentioned, Valerie Scopaz, who is the Town Senior Planner in support of
the Planning Board Office, and now, I'm going to .refer to my list to see
the other people I might have overlooked. We have with us today the head
of the department of our Building Department, Building Inspector Tom
Fisher, and there he is at the end there. Tom is the guy who we need to
look at in terms of Building Permits, Certificates of Occupancy, and
enforcement of the Code, and a key person who has a very important role
to play in, the Town of Southold. We have Ve McKeighan, who is head
of our Human Resource Center. I'm going to have to assume that most of
you know who the people are who already live here on Fishers Island. I'm
sure you know yourselves much better than I do. Bob Wall, the Assistant
Building Inspector, who assists Tom on matters here on Fishers Island. We
have James Richter, ' who is the Town Engineer, and the liaison for the
Highway Department doing most of our engineering work, and some work
for the Highway Department. The Police Chief was unable to be here
today, but we have the Lieutenant Joe Conway, and we have John
Raynor, who's in charge of the Dispatching, the Emergency Services,
with the green colored shirt is Joe Conway, our Lieutenant, and next to
him is John Raynor in charge of communications, telephone service, and
radio service, and dispatching. The Town of Southold now no longer
finances, or in any significant way, garbage disposal 'out of General Fund
Budget. Rather the Town if divided up into two districts. One district
being the Fishers Island District. The other district being the Long
Island portion, and we have with us the Solid Waste Coordinator for the
Long Island portion, Jim Bunchuck. - Jim, who is here in the front row,
Jim has become the garbage czar for the Long Island portion of the Town
of Southold. Going down my list we have Fred Tedeschi of the Justice
Court of the Town of Southold. Those are the key people. There are
others of us. I really have to mention Lauren Grant in the yellow blouse
there, who has helped prepare us for all of this, and brought some of the
things. She works in' my office, has been a tremendous help in getting all
of this together. She's shaking head, but, anyway, there she is. In
addition to the Southold Town people, some of whom I may not have
acknowledged, but to move on there are a number of, others of us today,
that who I would like to very briefly mention, and I'll start with your
Assemblywoman in the Assembly of the State of New York, Pat Acampora,
who is a pleasure to have with us today. We have John Kreutz. John is
the Assistant to the County Executive, who is unable to be with us today,
but he'll report back to the County Executive, and has been a very useful
person to have with us. Very briefly we have several people from the
Department of Environmental Conservation. The DEC is a key agency with
whom the Town is engaged on a number of issues, Ray Cowan, and Ray
has a number of his people here. He is the Regional Director of Region 1,
and we're very grateful and pleased to have you with us, Ray. Number
four, Steve 'Jones. Steve is 'the Director of Planning in the County of
Suffolk. Steve, in the back seat sitting next to the Planners, and Vito
Minei, who is the Program Manager of the Department of Health Services.
Vilo, also responsible for the Peconic Estuary's Program in the Town.
Tom Martin the Drinking Water Bureau of Suffolk County. There's lots of
AUGUST 3, 1994 445
additional people I could acknowledge, and I wish there was time for
everybody, but gives you flavor of those who are here. I hope you had a
chance to visit with some of them. At Louisa's suggestion we tried to
structure the meeting so you'd have a chance to meet with as many people
as possible before we get started. You'll notice today we're meeting in
the school. We're not meeting the American Legion. The American 'Legion
was a very congenial place. We always felt very comfortable there, but a
school has an educational ' purpose, and the purpose of our meeting with
you today is basically educational, education for the Board, and I hope
educational for the people, who show up here, and interact with us. This
is our opportunity to meet with people of Fishers Island, whom we scarcely
see, who even the television cameras really don't properly help us to
relate to, to get an idea of how people here feel, and for you people to
get a sense of where the Town Board is coming from. I don't think we have
any real formal business to undertake today. Am I correct? There are no
resolutions for us to adopt. It's an opportunity for us to outline where
we're coming from, what we're doing, outline what the future is as we see
it, -and- more importantly, to listen to the comments, the concerns, and the
issues that you bring to our attention. I've listed on my sheet four
things, that I think you may have an interest in. One of them, obviously
at the'top of the list, is the Metal Dump, and what the Board is doing, and
how we're dealing with the Metal Dump. There are three additional issues,
that I think are maybe important to you, and I'll just mention them very
briefly. One is the pending legislation, that the.. Town's considering to
modify the provisions by which we can have B&Bs, Bed and Breakfasts,
in the town, and the changes to the Zoning Ordinance, that are currently
under consideration. No changes have been made, but we are considering
some changes, and I think that will be an interesting point, that we'll
want to have some discussion on. The County of Suffolk Planning
Department with support in part from, I believe, the Conservancy, and
from some other groups, has basically completed a Watershed Protection
Plan for Fishers Island here, and I hope they'll have time to outline
briefly what they have ' come up with. I see some interesting maps up
here; and I think they have a story to tell, that will interest most of
you. Finally there is some progress on an Enhanced 911 Emergency
telephone service, and if we have a chance we might get into some
discussion on those topics. That's not exhausted. You've got lots of
other concerns. I hope you'll bring them to our attention, but that's four
things in case nobody can think of what to say, that's a little primer,
four things that might be of interest. I would like now to begin a very
brief summary of where we are in regard to the Metal Dump. The last two
or three years, that I've had the pleasure to come over here to the Island,
the issue of the Metal Dump has been rivaled, maybe, by the progress, or
the lack of progress of the tennis court. But, the Metal Dump 'has been
sort of key issue for a number of years. I would like to bring you up to
date with a very, sort of off the cuff summary of what has happened since
last July or August when we were here last to see you. You all know that
going back several years now the Town Board of the Town of Southold has
committed itself to a proper resolution, some cleaning, or capping, or
somehow ending the festering continuation of that dump. The first step we
took some year and a half ago was to close the dump to any further
deposition of materials. It's no longer receiving stuff, and I gather, and
understand, that's been pretty rigidly 'implemented. But, in addition to
that the Board has accepted responsibility repeated. I have personally,
and I think all of us on the Board, in one fashion or another, have
accepted responsibility on behalf of the Town to close -it. What we haven't
fully decided is exactly how we're going to close it, nor have we specified
a timetable, and there's all kinds of discussions, and back and forth, and
negotiations on those two issues, . namely the timetable, and what exact
steps are we going to take. I'd like to outline to you now a very brief
history as, you know history is always in the eyes of the person speaking
it, and I told Alice. Hussie, who by the way Chairs, the Solid Waste Task
Force of the Town of Southold; and I'm telling the rest of. the Board, this
is my own slant on things, and when I'm finished I hope that each of them
will adjust my recitation to be sure that it reflects everybody's views as
best we can. First of all, when we were here last year we reiterated the
commitment to close it, and we said we would move ahead expeditiously with
it. What have we done since that time? Back in August we canvassed
around and sought estimates of- how much would it cost to close that Metal
Dump, to cap and close, and get rid of it? Through a series of phone
calls, and inquires, we learned, and the information that we finally got
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446 AUGUST 3, 1,994
back in early October, we got two separate estimates from two different
firms, one quoting $135,000.00, and one quoting $65,000.00 to simply skim
off the top ten feet of the Metal Dump, and guess restore that top ten
feet, but not to excavate everything, not to clean up, according to every
perimeter, and every legal restriction in the protocols that we're expected
to do, but simply to remove ten feet of stuff, and sort of clean it up on
top, $65,000.00 or $135,00.00 to do that. Back in October the Board
chewed on all of this. This was before the elections, and really came to no
decision.' There were two reasons we came to no . decision. One of them
was that sixty-five to hundred thirty-five is wide variance, and we weren't
at all clear, that the cheapest bid would really have done the job. We
also weren't clear that simply skimming off ten feet at the top was the
right thing to do. It might take more than that. Nor were we clear the
composition of that pile, so consequently the Board looked further into it,
and ' at that time did not accept either one of those, bids. We also got a
letter from the DEC at that point, and you may know that the cleaning up
of a dump is basically a partnership between the Department of
Environmental Conservation , and the Town. It's a. partnership that the
Town bears .all financial responsibilities for, but we're not just free . to
do it anyway we we gant. It has to be done with the agreement, and the
understanding, and 'approvals from the Department of Environmental
Conservation. That's why I'm particularly pleased .that they're here today,
and they've been available, and we've had a number of discussions with
them about this. They made it clear to us. .now, we.it a minute, before you
guys start cleaning up the Metal Dump don't forget it's got to have prior
approval from our department. So, that letter came across the desk of my
predecessor back in late October, and that led to a flurry of meetings, and
a further : postponement, of any decision, but I'm• pleased to say, that in
November we had . a visit from the ' Solid Waste Engineer in the DEC's
regional office, who basically said, if what you want, to do is to excavate
the stuff out of the dump, and remove it to Connecticut, and elsewhere, we
would have no problem with that, and we can basically give you a prior
approval to do that. There were a number of restrictions, and
qualifications, but basically it was a go ahead for us, and in fact, to be
candid the Department has encouraged us from the beginning to excavate
everything right out of that landfill, so there is no longer a landfill. I
think you're all aware that it has a. concrete base to it, and two or three
concrete walls. I think it's fair to say, Ray, that the preference of the
Department would be just to clean everything right out of there, and
there's ;no more landfill to worry about, and everybody would be quite
happy about that. The Town Board considered that at some length, and
was open to moving in that direction provided it wasn't going to break the
bank, and how much would it cost, and how much is really involved in
doing that? So, in December we made a few inquires. I actually made some
inquires, and the Board did, - back in December, and beginning in January,
on the 4th of January, we wrote to David Brown, who has been the
Engineer of the Conservancy here in Connecticut, to make some studies of
what is involved in cleaning out of the Metal Dump. Those discussions
didn't go too far, . and on the 6th of January right when the change of
government took over, early in January on the 6th, we wrote to Fagan
Engineers in upstate New York to, please, come down here to this island,
have a look,. dig through this pile, see exactly what's there, and give us
some engineering recommendations as to what we're really getting into, what
is a responsible, technically, environmentally, and fiscally responsible
approach to cleaning up the Metal . Dump here? On the 18th of January
we got a proposal from Fagan Engineers as to what it would involve for
them to undertake such a study, and in late January, early February, the
Town Board authorized, and paid $10,000.00 to' this upstate New York
engineering company to make a couple of trips over here, and study the
problem, explore with people who throw stuff into that Metal Dump, dig
through it, walk through the catacombs behind it in order to get a
sampling of the stuff inside, and they came up with a number of findings.
The first findings were, that .there's a lot more stuff there than we
realized. There's a whole second bay in fact, that most of us. .maybe some
of you knew it, but the . rest of us weren't even aware that there was a
whole another bay of that area that exists full of stuff. They also
assessed the extent of' metal in the Metal Dump. Metal being rather more
important product, because it can be recycled, and can be sold, and you
can offset to some extent the cost of that recycling and removal. When .
they were all finished Fagan Engineers gave us a report. We received
the report in early March about a month later, and the report outlined to
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AUGUST 3, 1994
447
us half a dozen different options available.;to the Town to close the Metal
Dump, and I don't have the report with` me.' ' We don't have the report with
us. In a ;sense it's served a purpose, but it's been overtaken by events. in
any event.- but there were about five or six particular options. One option
is to remove everything out of all of it, and get it off the Island, and
walk away from it. You like that. A second option is to do that to about
half. of it, that we knew existed, and don't do it to the half that we never
knew existed before. - A third option was this idea of just cleaning off the
ten feet up on the top, and cleaning it off, and putting something on the
surface. A fourth option was to clean it up, and build a wooden roof over
the whole thing with roofing just like a. house, so that water won't
infiltrate into it. Then there were several other sort of half way type
options of different kinds of things. One of them involved putting the
last option in refinement was to put a geo-membrane over the top,, so that
water will infiltrate, and do some monitoring of the water at the bottom,
and get an assessment of purity, and cleanliness, of that dump, so that we
could just clear up the top, leave a membrane on the top, and through the
monitoring over a period of years, cover it all over with some nice dirt,
and cover it all up, and excavate the top portion, but leave a portion.
This would have been considerable cheaper, if we could have gotten
approvals to do it, if the people on Fishers Island would have been happy
with it, and if, in fact, the monitoring wouldn't continue on for twenty,
or thirty years, and cost a lot of money through the water monitoring
that's required. We looked at these different proposals, and we tried to
price them, and Fagan Engineers in upstate sent us a number of different
numbers, and figures, and when the dust settled, after figuring out all of
this, we had in April a final report, and on May 9th we asked the DEC
to have a, meeting based on this report. That meeting was held on May
17th, and the former 'Solid Waste Engineer of the Region, plus Louisa,
myself, and two or three other people attended that meeting, and which we
discussed the two or three of those key options in , the report. The one
option is to remove everything from the whole thing from top to bottom,
and the other option was to remove the top ten or fifteen feet, cover it
all over with a geo-membrane, and continue monitoring the water from
time to time to be sure that there's no contamination coming out from the
bottom. There were costs associated with these two approaches. The
Fagan Engineers estimated, based on different metal composition within
the Metal Dump, depending on what that metal composition is, that the cost
of the complete excavation should not be more than $200,000.00. The cost
of - just cleaning up the top, and putting a geo-thermal membrane on
would be very variable depending on how much water monitoring would we
have to do, -and how much would we have to excavate, and after we went
through the fine print, and went back and forth with the DEC, and tried
to get a clarification of all these details, it became apparent to most- of
Us on the Board', and I'm going to speak for myself, but it became
apparent that probably given the liability of some problem in the future,
and the cost of monitoring, which we would be required to continue
indefinitely for . a significant period of time, and significant cost,
probably this portion would approach $150,000.00, and if $200,000.00 could
clean the whole thing out, hey, why don't we just go for the $200,000.00?
That became the cast of thinking of the Town Board. So, consequently, in
late May the Board took action on this, and we proposed to go to bid to a
commercial bid, to remove all the stuff out of the landfill with the
proviso, that we have a ceiling of $200,000.00, and we went back to our
engineering firm, and said could you, please, prepare us bid documents
with which we can seek contractors, who will do this job, subject to a
ceiling of $200,000.00. Our Fagan Engineers at upstate New York chewed
on this for about a week, and they called me back, and they said, Tom, we
really don't think that's going to work. If you put a ceiling of
$200,000.00, you're not going to get a reputable company. You're not
going to get good bids. We do think our report stands. It says
$200,000.00. We really think it can be done for $200,000.00, but we don't
think that we can prepare bid documents, that will put a ceiling, and hold
them to that. Rather, we think your Town of Southold is going to have to
accept more risk. You all know, many of you are investment people, you
know- in you families, you know what it means to accept risk. They told
us, you are going to have to accept more risk in case it comes in over '
$200,000.00. You all know what that means, too, and they said, if we're
going to prepare the bid documents, they're going to have to be more open
ended. They're going to have to be, or else you're going to get crazy
figures, and there's a likelihood of things not working out, and you'd
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4 4 8 AUGUST 3, 1994
better think of a more flexible contracting system. Reluctantly, in June,
the Board; chewed on this again, June was just six weeks ago. Chewed on
this again at some length, and we appropriated another $5,500.00 to an
engineering firm, the same Fagan Engineers, to assist the Town in
preparing the contract documents, which will put us at greater risk, and
the contract documents are going to ask for contractors to remove
everything from the dump, to get it off the island, to get rid of it in
Connecticut, to get -rid of it at any proper licensed fashion, and the
contractors is supposed to come back to.=.us, and tell us, these are,. the
rates that they're going to . charge per ton, or cubic yard of material
removed with a sum not to exceed, that is a ceiling price. Instead of the
Town providing that ceiling price, the contract documents now 'ask for the
contractors to tell us what is the ceiling price that they will not exceed.
Now, I think you all know, that when you let a bid out, and you ask the
contractor to give you a price not to exceed, chances are by the time you
finish paying for it; that price is pretty close to what we have to wind up
paying. The firm ' is now preparing those bid documents. The Board
hasn't seen them. I haven't seen them yet. We anticipate getting them
within a week or so,, and when we get them the Board will review them,
and that brings us uR to the present time. That's present. Now, let me
step into the future 'briefly. We expect to be getting these documents
shortly. We expect to be reviewing them, and I can't speak for the rest of
the Board, but I think that I, at least, and I think most of us, after all
we just put $5,500.00 into the preparation of those documents, I think
there is every expectation that we will put ' a bond in place, and that we
will then go to bid. There's an expectation that we will put the bond in
place of a figure that isn't clear to me yet, but it will obviously be at
least $200,000.00, and. that we will go ahead and solicit bids for the
removal of basically everything in the dump. Now, are we going to accept
those bids? It's no secret among the Board. I'm not sure if it is here.
It's no secret among the Board that I have been uncomfortable about
signing a blank check from the beginning to just remove everything from
the dump irrespective of the cost. It's just no in my nature. I'm trying
to run a business. I don't sign blank checks, and I'm just uncomfortable
about that. But, I'm just speaking personally now, and each Board member
has his own particular take on this, but I have been satisfied, that given
the regulatory requirements, that the Town faces, it looks to me that
anything else we could do that's legal and proper, would approach that cost,
and consequently to my mind removal of everything from the dump looks to
me like the logical thing to do, but' I'm 'going to be looking pretty darn
gone carefully at the sum not exceed, and if that sum is way up in the
stratosphere somewhere, at some level, that seems to me fiscal imprudent
for the Town, I am going to take another look' at some of these other
options that have been pointed out to us are environmentally responsible,
and are technically possible. This is just one vote on the Town Board, but
I have every hope, as I think most of you do, that this rather arduous
process, that we have launched, and carried out, I was going to say
diligently, at least we've made progress, every step ever since January. I
have every reason to believe that this will result in a bid, and in
contractor coming to the town with a bid, that we' can accept that. will
result in theremoval of virtually everything from that dump. On the other
hand, I'm not going to stand here in front of you today, and say, we are
definitely going to do that no matter how much it costs within a certain
time level, and I've tried to convey that to the DEC, and I want to convey
the same message to you. That's more or less where we stand at the
present time, and I could go into a lot more, but I've already spoken for a
long, and I would like to give my companions on the Board an opportunity
to correct what. -you know it's very hard to speak for a Board. Everybody
has his or her own views, and I'd just like to give them an opportunity, if
anyone would like to adjust what I say, or to put it in a broader
prospective.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Can I make an adjustment? I'm. going to make a
little bit of any adjustment here. Unfortunately, the Metal Dump got
caught in between a rock, and a hard place. I was very disappointed last
November, the famous November 22nd, of which Tom referred, when we
got the letter from the Regional Waste Director, the Director of Regional
Solid Waste Engineer, saying that in deed we ' could start a reclamation
project here with the Metal Dump on Fishers Island. 1 thought that was a
really good thing to do, because it meant that we could get started
immediately, which is something that I wanted to do. Unfortunately, the
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. AUGUST 3, 1994 449
Lame Duck administration did. not want to put a check out for X number of
dollars, and then the new administration had a few other ideas, and there
was a little diversion of opinion back in November. My feeling right now
is that we didn't - do that job, and what we have to do is find the best
solution for the Metal Dump, and at the same time not bankrupt us. I am
not so sure that everything that we have coming down the road is really
the right thing, but I tell you, this is going to sound like. . l'm not
campaigning, I want the Metal Dump to be emptied. I think it should be
emptied all the way. As far as cost is .concerned I recall that on this
very same famous November 22nd; I called one of the people who had
actually bid to do the top third of the work, and said, if it's going to
cost X dollars to do one-third, I presume it's going to cost 3X to do the
whole thing, ' and he said, yes, which brought us to a. number that seemed
to me to be pretty palatable, especially we would get the whole Metal Dump
emptied. We'll have to see how these new specs come in from the engineer.
If there is indeed a wide gap of what ,if, and things that we can not
actually determine the cost of, I don't know if I can go along with that.
We're all in this together. We'll have to see. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Louisa?
JUSTICE EVANS: I just wanted to explain the bidding process a little
better. I think what we're doing is, we're asking contractors for a per
ton estimate for what it's going to cost per ton to.-clean it out, and then
also they'll have a not to exceed price, and we can award the contract on
either basis, so if we feel, and my feeling 1 is, we hire these engineers so
hopefully they're pretty accurate, that if they're not to exceed' prices out
of this world we can .go on the per ton,, and trust our engineers, and
hopefully there's the amount of stuff in there, that they've told us is in
there. So, I feel as Tom, that we have to be fiscally responsible, but I'm
hopeful that when the contractors get a chance to bid on this, that the
bids will be palatable.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Well, you've heard a fairly, I hope, clear
presentation of the issue, where we are. I'd like to open the floor up to
comments that you may have, the issues that you'd like to raise to us.
We'd like to respond. We'd like to listen. We're at your service. This is
a formal meeting of the Town Board. Would you like to stand up at. the
microphone, and please, give your name for the record.
ROGER BARMACHE: My name is Roger Barmache, and I would like to
know, can the Armed Forces be held responsible for any part of that
project? At one time they used to use the dump, and dumped quite a bit of
metal, can they be held responsible for part of the cost?
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: That's a very interesting idea. We'll have to
explore that. I appreciate that lead. The question was in as much as the
Armed Forces deposited a lot-of products into that Metal Dump, could we go
after the Armed Services to help pay for it, and that's something I'm going
to look right into. Thank you.
JOHN THATCHER: I'm John Thatcher from Fishers Island Conservancy.
When the Armed Forces held Fort Wright what was in there was ammunition,
which I understand has now been moved. To my knowledge the Army did
nothing with it. The didn't have dumps elsewhere. So, I basically wanted
to bring this Board's attention to the Fisher Island Conservancy, of
course, feels, as many of you have hinted, that, yes, we'd like to
officially go on record as saying that we want it all cleaned out. I,
also, understand the Board's not wanting to sign a blank check. Tom, if I
were in your position, I wouldn't want to do it either, but that's why you
have your consultants, and. I think you're proceeding according to plan. I
wanted to mention one other thing. That dump area could easily qualify as
a possibly a National, certainly a State Historic Site. Most .of the Army
abutments, and Navy bunkers that were built long ago do qualify, and I
would like very much for the Town to look into that dimension, because
once it's cleaned out, there might be a considerable tax deduction
regarding maintenance of said premises, if I may use that phase, but it is
something the Town should look into. I have been in touch with several
people, that tell me that this does qualify being over 50 years old, as a
State and/or National Historic Site. It might be interesting. I think
450 AUGUST 3, 1994
there are several forts on Eastern Long Island that qualify in that
regard. Fort Wright certainly would be one of them.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you, John. Yes, sir?
BILL RIDGEWAY: Bill Ridgeway. On John's concern, what bothers
me, I assume you will get it cleaned up, and applaud that. I'm afraid what
you'll have then is a very attractive nuisance, whereas a child could crawl
through those catacombs, and I hope at some point you will fence it off, -or .
make it safe.
JUSTICE EVANS: I'm hoping that maybe we can convince the Town to give
it to the Museum, and the Museum can take care of it, but I don't know if
that will fly or not.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Bill, this has been one of my concerns, too. It's
a potential liability, 'and it could be quite dangerous. This is one of the
reasons I though it merited some consideration of a- proper consolidation
and fill and- leaving it in place. Any other questions about the Metal
Dump? Yes, sir?
ELLIOT PORTER: Back in October when -you had two bids, and it was to
clean up the whole dump, but one bidder didn't bid to clean up the whole
dump. The other one did for $135,000.00. 1 thought that was to remove
it, get it all cleaned up.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: I guess I wasn't clear about that. There were
telephone estimates. They weren't really bids, and they were not to clean
up the whole Metal Dump. They were just to clean off the top ten feet or
so, and one was $135,000.00, and one was $65,000.00, but they were not to
clean out everything, and they really weren't qualified bids. There were
estimates. Any other questions about the Metal Dump, or other subjects
that are on your mind?
PETER BRICKERHOFF: When you were in January we had a general
discussion regarding the notion that there was imbalance between the tax
revenues collected 'from Fishers Island by the Town of Southold, and the
services provided by the Town, and I believe you acknowledged, that you
agreed in general with the concept and that you would study it, and I was
curious as to the study, and the conclusions.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: The question is regarding the imbalance in tax
revenue from Fishers Island in relation to the services that the Town of
Southold provides. We did have quite an active discussion back in
January. It was very positive, and productive, and educational, at least
for me. The question really is, how should we address this question of an
imbalance? I go back to the definitive study, which the Conservancy did,
or commissioned . a couple of years ago, and as I recall the key conclusion
from that study was, that the imbalance was caused largely in Police
account. In most other respects of Town government it was fairly close
balance, but the Police portion of it there was a significant imbalance at
that stage. Now, Peter, as I recall last January, this goes back a few
months now, as I recall we were going to ask the Civic Association to look
into it. Is that right?
LESLIE GOSS: I'm Leslie Goss, Fishers Island Civic Association. As
many of you know, or if you don't know, when we circulated the minutes
from the January meeting, we did invite the people who see these minutes
to write back to the Civic Association, or Mr. Brickerhoff, about any
ideas they might have, which we could present to the town to address.
The other thing we did was run a notice, we sent a. letter to the Editor,
Mr. Bickerhoff did. • We did that, and unfortunately we haven't had that
much of a response to either of those appeals. There are definite needs
that have been defined by the communities, or the different organizations.
or different individuals, that I feel to let the Board know about. But
(tape change.)
COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND: It's an issue that's not unique to Fishers
Island. There are many areas in Southold Town, which have the same
problem. Those areas where ,;there may be a property owners' association,
where the roads are maintained by that association, and wells, and all
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AUGUST 3, 1994 451
sorts of services are provided by. that,association, yet they're taxed quite
heavily, because they have high value homes. There's also the Village of
Greenport, which pays not only taxes to us, but to their Village
government, and they pay for many things that they feel they shouldn't
pay 'for, like Town roads, and all the part-time Town expenditures. So,
it's not just a problem, that we'd have to address with Fishers Island.
We, also, have to think of it in a broader sense, and I think, as Leslie
just pointed out, what we really have to do is to look at those needs that
aren't being met, and if the Town can .meet them, we should meet them,
but I don't think 'that we can up, or we ever will come up with a. .well,
every Town dollar that we get from Fishers Island has to be spent on
Fishers Island. I think that's not practical, and I think to come up with
some sort of formula that does that would be. . l'm sure it would be very
popular on the Island, and is not a possibility. I am a former Mayor of
Greenport, so I'm very familiar with that issue, and there are a lot of
people in Greenport that are very hot, because they pay taxes to Southold
Town, and they don't feel they should. Town Hall allows that to happens,
and unless we can figure out a way to do it, that is equitable to everybody
that pays more than they get in services. I don't think we can come with
something that's special for Fishers Island in that case. Just make sure
that you're needs are met, and that you get a fair amount of government
attention.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you, Joe. Are there any other questions?
MARTIN SCOTT: Good afternoon. My name is Martin Scott. I have a
problem with the Assessors. A number of years ago they reassessed my
house, and as a result (tape malfunction)
STEVE MALINOWSKI: My question to you are number one, how much
time was spent in West Harbor? (tape malfunction) .
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Thank you for this opportunity to explain myself
just a little bit. In answer to your first question, how much time have I
spent? Not any. My objection was strictly from a philosophy standpoint. It
had nothing to do with the fact that on Fishers you were doing that,
anymore than it would happen if it was in Goose 'Creek, or someplace else.
My objection arose from the fact' that I did not think it was a wise thing
for the Town .to hand over to private citizens the jurisdictions, or the
workings of a harbor. This thing could happen anyplace. We had the
same thing happening in Goose Bay. The Goose Bay Associates could get
together and say, hey, we want to be running this thing now, or Ceder
Beach could do that, or any of the other places in Southold. It has
nothing to do with Fishers Island per sec. It has to do with -the fact,
that I did think that it was a wise thing to start. I thought it would
start a bad precedent.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: I'd like to comment that it was really Louisa
Evan's initiative that brought about that change. Are there any other
questions? Leslie?
LESLIE GOSS: Thank you. Leslie Coss, Fishers Island Civic
Association. Just to clarify Harbor Committee. I know I did this when I
addressed the on May 31st, took up this issue. I would reiterate that
the Harbor Committee was appointed by the Town Board. It has
representatives from each user groups, including a Harbor Master Plan to
present to the Town Board about what we think should happen over here.
You guys, the Southold Town Board, have final approval of the plan.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: I wonder if we could take a few minutes, if
there's an interest on the apart of the audience, to hear a little bit
about the Watershed Protection Plan, that the County of Suffolk has helped
us prepare here. Can we take a few minutes for. that? Stephen, are you
the person to help us with it? This is Stephen Jones, who is the Director
of Planning for the County of Suffolk.
STEPHEN JONES: Thank you very much, Mr. Supervisor and members of
the Board. My name is Stephen Jones. I'm the Planning Director for Suffolk
County. As many of you may be aware, a number of years ago, the
Fishers Island Conservancy and the County put a pile of money together,
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452 AUGUST 3, 1994
the bulk of which went to hiring private consultants. The Conservancy
and the County of Suffolk put money together to hire a number of different
consultants to do a thorough examination of a Watershed Protection Area for
Fishers Island. The bulk of that work of the consultants has been done
now. , There was a very detailed examination of the ecology of the area,
another examination of the hydro- geology of the area, and a third
examination of the engineering aspect of the water district, and the water
company. Those have all been completed now, and those of us in the
Suffolk County Planning Department, and .the Suffolki County Department of
Health Services 'are currently going through those ! documents, and what
we're going to be doing is culling out all the information we can, and then .
comparing it with other areas in the country, and also, along the eastern
seaboard, and the types of watershed protection rules any other areas have
developed, and try to take the best from all of those, and then we are
proposing to come back here to the Island, probably some time the .later
part of September.. A number of us will come over here. We will have
some preliminary recommendations to make, and we would propose that the
Conservancy help us to sponsor a meeting to run these recommendations by
the people here on the island, because many of these recommendations will
start to get into the areas of zoning, and land use,; and also, management
policy, that might be carries out here on the island I and they have impact
on the current level of things, that people can do with their property to
have a impact on the water supply system. This ! is, obviously, a very
touchy area, when you tell people that they perhaps should or shouldn't
water their lawn at a certain time, or maybe, have' to bring water to fill
up a swimming pool; or do it at a certain time of year, not another time of
year, so we want to . come up with some preliminary recommendations,
because Fishers Island., like Shelter Island, is classified such that the
Island will be able develop different kinds of watershed rules, that' is
true elsewhere on Long Island, or perhaps other areas of New York State,
so you will have the opportunity to put into effect rules as you see fit to
protect your own water supply system, so. we're not quite as far along as
the Supervisor had indicated, but we're getting very close. The part of
the reason for that is that we did a lot of work this past year from last
September through July on our major Pine Barrens Protection Plan for the
Town of Brookhaven, Town of Riverhead, Town of Southold, large
100,000 acre area there in Suffolk County. We've learned a- lot from that,
and we've come up with some interesting technics, which may have
applicability here on Fishers Island. How to guide: development in areas
that will have least impact on the groundwater supply. So, we hope to
take some of what, we learned from the Pine Barrens Plan, and see if we
can apply it to portions of the Watershed Protection Plan. One of the
things we're doing. .you know, we have some maps here for anybody who
wants them. I hope they can end up somewhere where all of you over here
can have a look at them, maybe in a library, or someplace, but the maps
we're starting to create here, which again, emanate from a lot of the
sophisticated equipment, that we acquired as part of !the Pine Barrens Plan,
the computer equipment, we're able to generate through maps now, that
show things like property lines, and tax map palcels, right on top of
things like topography, and roads, and home sites, and buildings, and that
sort of things. So, you may find those maps to be interesting, and
certainly I would welcome any ,correction, or any Icomments, any of you
have. The maps will come more and more sophisticated, as the months roll
by, and certainly by the time we're actually reading to, or the Town
Board, and the State, are ready to actually incorporate the regulations,
the maps will be much more sophisticated, and easier to read, but I
thought you might want to see a sample of all kinds of things we're now
starting to produce in the County Planning Department, in this case, for
the benefit of Fishers Island. So, I'll stop there, :and I!ll try to answer
any question 1 can. I did have an opportunity !with a number of my
colleagues .from the Health . Department to take a look at almost all of your
water supply system in terms of the reservoirs, and the ponds, and all of
the pumping equipment, and well sites, today, and certainly all of- us agree
that these .areas are all maintained, and working very wel,l. The quality of
the water is excellent. You have very dedicated personnel, who are
working for your water supply system, and from what I understand there
are always there a few scattered complaints, by generally people seem to be
happy with the water supply that's here now.
!
STEPHEN MALINOWSKI : Are you aware that permission has been granted
to construct a private well on our main reservoir?
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AUGUST 3, 1994 453
STEPHEN JONES: A private dwelling on Barlow Pond?
STEPHEN MALINOWSKI: Yes.
STEPHEN JONES: Yes, I'm aware of that.
STEPHEN MALINOWSKI : Is there anything you can do about that?
STEPHEN JONES: It's very tough to do anything, once the Building Permit
is issued, short of, if you go in there and revoke the Building Permit
you're going right to the heart of the property value, and you would have
to compensate the person for the lose of their property rights. I don't
know, certainly the County is not prepared to 'do that, and 1 don't if the
Town of Southold, or the Fishers Island Development Company would want
to do that at this point, either. What we can do it, is we take a look at
what appears to be happening in the future, and try as best we can to
say, okay, let's start the elbow, and do the best we can for the future.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you, Steve. Are there anymore questions,
or comments? Yes, John. `
JOHN THATCHER: John Thatcher, Fishers Island Conservancy. Tom, I
think I would be remiss if I didn't mention at this meeting, and I had two
main topics to address on. I wanted to thank the :Board for the vote last
year supporting the Fishers Island Conservancy when they protested the
U.S. Navy plan to dump millions of tons of contaminated dredge spoil just a
mile off our shore. I met with our attorneys yesterday in New London,
and this matter, which is now been hanging for over two years, is going to
come to a head, probably at some point between now, and the beginning of
1995. 1 don't think the Board needs to take any action at this point in
time, but I did want to alert the Board that further action may be
necessary because a great deal of that dredged spoil will end up in waters
belonging to the Town of Southold without any question. In fact, we've
found out that a certain portion of that dump site is in New York State.
It's not just on the border. It is in New York State. We had a survey
done to show that, so again, my heartfelt thanks, and I think I can speak
for a vast majority 'of people in this room, for through the Board for their
support. It's just been essential, and, in the near future it will become
essential, again, as David tries to fight off Goliath here. We'll do our
best. The second matter I wanted to address the Board, and I've spoken
to several of the officials in this room about it, our fishing problems.
Louisa and I have talked many times about it. There are numerous
dimensions to this, ranging from overuse by people from Massachusetts,
and Connecticut of the public areas on Race Point, which crowd out local
fisherman. It also encompasses the dimensions of trawling, which sweep up
and down primarily in Block Island Sound, but, also, here in Fishers
Island Sound, leaving us to wonder, where are these boats coming from? Do
they have , proper credentials? What are they catching, because we know
from experience here, that fishing is not what it once was. Yes, there's
still some here, but there's no question the bait, particularly bunker are
in short supply, and I wanted to mention this, and make the Town aware of
it, so that perhaps some enforcement from the Town can perhaps in the
future coordinating with the Coast Guard, and the DEC, can given to the
island, because a lot of these trawlers are from Connecticut, and Rhode
Island, and we see them those of us who fish on the shore almost every
night. They do come out at night. Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you, John. There a gentleman in the back.
PETER ROGAN: My name is Peter Rogan. I've been around this island
for many years. I have two points. One is, . I think it would be a great
idea to have a historic operation where the dump'is now. I remember about
sixty, years ago, when I was a little boy, we would watch .those mortars
being fired. They let us in about thirty or forty feet. It was very
exciting. You could see the bullets going up, and we all know Uncle Sam
has a lot of money, so, I think we ought to see if we can get some money
from him to do that job. My second point is, that everybody here is
talking about taxes. There's another side of that coin. It's called
spending. I think you people spend too much money. You ought to do
something about it. You can go Washington. You can write them. You
waste your time. They're in another world. They just spend, and spend,
454
AUGUST 3 .1994
and tax, and tax. Then you go to Albany. I don't know what's .going on
there, - but they don't ' help us out at all. All they do is mandate this,
mandate that. I'd like to get that word out .of the dictionary. No more
mandates. Now, you're the closest thing we have to a government. We can
speak to you. .I suppose we're kind of wasting our time again. I'd like to
say to you,. the people here are dictators. All you got to do is raise
taxes, and everyone writes a check. You got to stop spending. Stop
telling us what to do. - Leave us alone. Go on vacation. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: I'd just like to respond, very briefly to that. Part
of what you heard is the rationale for care in how we approach the Metal
Dump problem. The Metal Dump problem is linked, also, to the Landfill
problem in the rest of Southold Town, which is a much bigger issue still. I
would like to say, that the Board has expressed concern about the
tendency of tax creep; or the tendency to simply increase spending, and
increase taxes year after year. It's been a concern less probably with .
Town government, and more for a lot of the other taxing districts, which
also show up on our tax bills. So, for example, we have the school
districts, we have the fire districts, the solid waste districts, here, I
guess, there's a ferry, district, and Town government, County government,
etc. So, this year we have established a committee who's charge is
basically to explore avenues to restrain the tendency for increased taxes
and spending.. The overall purpose of this committee is to provide a better
base of understanding, or for more appropriate decisions related to taxes,
and to spending. It is not a mindless committee, that's destined simply to
slash spending, and do away with important services, but to look for ways
to economize, to look for ways to run more efficiently, to maybe share
facilities ; between different taxing districts, so that each district
doesn't have the same thing. You known, if the Board knew exactly what
to do I don't think we'd even have a committee. This is in a sense
uncharted territory. The tendency in the past has always been to simply
go to the taxpayers for more. With this committee we're looking for some
answers, some direction, as to how to control that tendency for more
spending and taxes, and yet to provide the necessary services that I think
most of us regard as essential. Is there any other comments from the
audience? Yes, sir.
KEN EDWARDS: It's not really a comment. Ken Edwards, Planning Board.
I'd just like to get a feeling from the audience; if I could, is there any
interest from amongst the people of having a regular Planning Board
meeting on Fishers Island sometime on Saturday in September, and if so
would you. attend? There's nobody from our Planning Board, other than
Valarie Scopaz, our head Planner. A few things have happened on the
island, pertaining to Planning. We - plan every application with a map,
available to the public in Louisa Evans' Office, so people can review it.
We're working to get an aerial photo of all of Fishers Island. There's
copies, supposedly, and Fishers Island should have their own copies. It
would be excellent to have. We should have it. Also, the Planning Board
is going to be ruling we're going to have the maps on the computer.
Valerie told me today that she plans to, hopefully, have one of the
Planning Board staff come over maybe once a month with the Building
Inspector to go over the questions, and help out with the applications. We
don't have that many, but it's nice to know how to process them. So, I
hope in September we'll have some people.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you, Ken.
PETER BRINKERHOFF: I commend for this committee established to look
at the economics of the town. I ask that you put on your docket
consideration of turning over a sum of services that the town now provides
back to the private sector.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you very much. We have with us today
the staff person to this committee. She's a summer intern who's assisting
the committee. She's in the back with her hand up. Peter, .why don't you
try to visit with her at the end? Any other comments?
AUGUST 3, 1994 455
JOHN THATCHER: John Thatcher. Fishers Island Conservancy, again. I
would like to inform the Board, and also Ken Edwards, that five copies of
the huge map of Fishers Island, which is at least seven feet long, are
being prepared. by the Conservancy, and will be given to Town officials. It
has wetlands on, property lines, coastal lines, whatever you choose. . We
feel that's the least we'can do. Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: We look forward to getting it. Who else has a
comment to add?
LESLIE GOSS: Leslie Goss. The maps that Ken Edwards from the
Planning Department was just referring to, we actually have copies of
those. Tom Doherty," of the Utility Office has those maps. If anyone is
interested in seeing those maps, go to the Utility 'Office between eight and
five, • between Monday and Friday. They're up in the conference room, and
I just realized I'm remiss in my duties as Civic Association president to
thank you very much, the Town Board, for coming over here today, to
conduct business, and bringing this large compliment of officials with you.
We _really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: If there are thanks for that, we really have to
thank the Fishers Island Ferry District for providing the transportation,
which they do every year for us, and I'm very grateful for that. You may
know the mechanics of government, when the change in the Town Code is
called for, there's a statutory process, that has to be followed, and one
of those processes is to hold a public hearing. A public hearing permits
everybody to have comments, and give comments, and react to the
proposal. Louisa Evans brought .to the attention of the Town Board such a
proposal, which has to go into our Code to change the change of parking
status on Whistler Avenue, and a proposal now is for a public hearing to
be held on the ,9th of August, that's next week, to institute a no parking
zone on the south side of Whistler Avenue about 1,800 feet up from Airport
Road. It's too bad these' hearings aren't held here, but I guess this one
will be held in Southold Town Hall on the 9th with the expectation that.
that will become a no parking zone.
JUSTICE EVANS: Just that if people aren't familiar, it's right in front of
the movie theatre, and it was actually a request of the Fire Department,
because people this year have begun parking in front of the theatre, and
it's very, difficult for any vehicles to get through. I just wanted Tom to
bring it to your attention, so that if anyone did have comments we have a
few copies of the notice here, and please, comment to me what you have to
say.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Any other comments from the audience today? (No
response.) If not, I'd just like to say how grateful I am to be. here. It's
always a pleasure for me, and I'm sure I speak for the whole Board. it's
just a great pleasure for us to come. It's a pleasure to listen, to get a
sense of where- people are .coming from. Anyone else on the Board like to
comment?
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: It's such a pleasure to be here, again. I know
so many of you over the years, and I've worked with you, and it's be a
delight, and I think the most important thing is we here on this Board
really do feel that Fishers Island is unique, and has unique problems, and
we want to help you in any way that we can, and you have our entire
support. Thank you so much for all your generosity.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: I think we're going to try to catch your boat
back in, about fifteen minutes or so. We'll be available to chat a bit
outside, and can I just turn it over to Louisa?
456 AUGUST 3,. 1994
JUSTICE EVANS: I just want to thank the Town Board, and all the
County, and State people that came over, sort of echoing what Leslie
Goss said, that we. appreciate the trip over here, and we hope .you do it
more than once a year, but we're glad you've come, and listened to some of
our gripes today. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR WICKHAM: Thank you. We need a motion to close.
Moved by Justice Evans; seconded by Supervisor Wickham, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board meeting be and hereby is adjourned at
3:05 P.M.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Justice Evans, Councilwoman Oliva,
Councilman Townsend, Councilwoman Hussie, Supervisor Wickham.
This. resolution was duly ADOPTED.
Judith T. Terry
Southold Town Clerk
O