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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/09/1973 �O���F�CKCo o Southold Town Planning Board p SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wickham, Chairman Henry Moisa Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle M I N U T E S SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD August 9, 1973 A special meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 2 : 00 P.M. , Thursday, August 9 , 1973 , at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Raynor; Frank S. Coyle. Also present: Mr. Charles G. Lind and Mr. Ken Babitz of the Suffolk County Department of Planning; Lefferts Paine Edson, Esq. ; Rudolph H. Bruer, Esq. This special meeting was called to discuss cluster development of the Pebble Beach Realty Subdivision located in East Marion, New York. Mr. Lind said that in looking over the layout of the cluster plan, we feel that there are several deficiencies in it.. We think that it is a matter of layout. Mr. Wickham read a paragraph from a letter received from The Suffolk County Department of Planning, dated April 24, 1973, - Southold Town Planning Board -2- August 9, 1973 as follows : "As you are aware the Planning Commission has favored the utilization of the "cluster" concept of land development as a means to preserve open space and attain other planning goals. " Mr. Wickham said that we feel we should utilize wooded areas; everybody gains if we can maintain agriculture. Referring to the Pebble Beach Subdivision, Mr. Lind asked if the building line was being held back 100 feet from the top of the bluff . Mr. Wickham responded that it is, and that it had been measured very carefully. He :'.indicated the location of the bluff on the map, and said that we feel that this line is most conservative. Mr. Lind said we have information on erosion now that we did not have years ago. Mr. Wickham stated that the Town has been working with the Soil and Water Conservation District. Mr. Lind said that in some places we have an incretion; a little bit to the west we have 4 or 5 foot erosion. We are not using a formula, we are using rule of thumb of 100 feet back from the bluff. We just received a report from Stony Brook Department of Marine Sciences which gives erosion rates. This is based on two points in time, about 100 years apart. We only. know that in 1836 the bluff line was here. . . now it' s here. The thing is to provide protection for people on the shoreline. This is a reasonable approach. Mr. Wickham said that we have a specific report from the Soil and Water Conservation District on this . Mr. Raynor said that this property abuts a golf course. Mr. Lind stated that he did not see any problem if you put cesspools in. He noted that the lots are a little narrow. Referring to the map, Mr. Wickham said that if you look at the ground water profile, you find that the highest ground water contour would be here. With this type of cluster development, the sanitary disposal would flow through the gravel beds. This is a historical development pattern. We can 't have multiple use in any residential . area; condominiums and town houses are out. Referring to the map, Mr. Babitz said he thought if there were condominiums all the houses could be in this area, and you could leave all this area open. It would be a ten times better layout. Mr. Wickham said that, in this Town at least, the density is very much more liberal in "M" zone. You are not talking about one . family per acre. If we could limit it to one family per acre, we would buy the idea. Mr. Lind said that with the cluster concept you can have a build- ing on an individual lot, 20 ' x 80 ' , but you would have to build row houses. Mr. Wickham said that, architecturally, we are not buying it in the Town of Southold. I have a keen sense of historical value of our Colonial motif. Southold Town Planning Board -3- August 9, 1973 Mr. Raynor stated that we have, more or less , tried to stick with one type of multiple dwelling in each area. Legally, you can't stop anyone from asking for a change of zone. Mr. Wickham said that if- we had an Architectural Review Board we could make sure that the buildings were colonial in motif. Mr. Lind responded that Architectural Review Boards don't seem to go over too well with some people. Mr. Lind asked if, basically, the Town felt that single family, detached dwellings, were preferable. Mr. Wickham said that this is what we are set up for, unless the zone is changed, which would allow something like six and a half units. Mr. Lind said that under present zoning, 100 units could be put on 100 acres but 100 units also could be put on 50 acres or less . The number of units would not change but the flexibility of housing styles could change . Mr. Wickham said that if you change the zone to a zone enabling a density of 6 . 3 or 6 . 4 , and the Covenant restricts to one unit per acre, there are some people who might question the validity, and feel that in 25 years or so this might be overturned. Whereas , the way it is , it is clear cut. Mr. Lind said that he would like to see a future approach with more flexibility, without changing the density. If you put all the houses on one acre, you will have open space . I do realize it has to be flexible to meet the desires of the community itself. Mr. Wickham said that the cluster ordinance is most specific that there must be a Home Owners ' Association and they must hold title on open space, and we usually insist on perpetual easement. Mr. Lind said there is a lot of pressure for individual home sites; the direction is from the Sound to the sea; we are faced with a demand for second homes . Mr. Lind asked if test borings had been taken and Mr. Wickham responded that they had not. Mr. Lind asked what wave action did to the property. Mr. Wickham said that there are some heavy boulders and a lot of gravel on the beach. It has a steep foreshore. Mr. Lind said that there should be some control on removal of vege- tation. Test holes would be necessary assuming everything else is satisfactory. The first thing that struck me is that the lots are narrow and long. There was also the question of the buffer. Referring to the map, Mr. Lind said that he was wondering why it continued this way on a pathway to the Main Road on the right hand side; bringing the road in here is an awkward situation. There is also another road. I have not walked this property. Mr. Wickham indicated on the map where the existing roadway runs to the beach. Speaking for myself, I would feel that the developer would have no real objection to changing the connections here or here. This is preliminary. If you don 't like the way these two lots are located, they can be set off in another place. Our Highway Department insists on having every road go to the end of the property and there has to be a turn-around. (There was a general discussion of the roads . ) • 1 L Southold Town Planning Board -4- August 9, 1973 Mr. Lind stated that the Planning Department has been pushing cluster zoning very strongly, and that Mr. Klein has been pushing it. He suggested that maybe there. could be some modifications in the Pebble Beach design. Mr. Wickham said that with lot sales , and individual owners doing their own building, the Town has really done very well. However, there are a few eyesores, but in comparison with developments where the builder is the developer, .we have done very well. Mr. Lind stated that, basically, there should be some modifi- cation in the road patterns . A long road creates problems in traffic. You might want to break it up a little bit. Mr. Wickham said that we would just as soon have this connection further back. We gave the opinion (referring to map) that this ought to be here, and the parking area here. There would be more room for parking. Mr. Lind said that parking should be provided for all lots that are 1,200 feet .from the beach. Mr. Wickham asked if one car for every two lots would be. reasonable. Mr. Lind responded that that seemed to be reasonable, and that the spaces should be a minimum of 60 feet wide. Mr. Wickham said that this wasiset up for 10 slots and 40 cars . Mr. Lind said that he thought it should be set up for 50 cars. He asked if there should .be any consideration to modify .the lots so they come in at right angles to the road. Mr. Wickham said that we have no objection to running these perpendicular to the road, or . the street line . Mr. Lind asked about drainage. Mr. Wickham said that they had given some rough figures to Charles Barnett, who has a great deal of experience including drainage layouts for agricultural land. The developer says th&t he is going to see Charles and say that we would like to look at the drainage swales now. Mr. Lind said that as far as road widths go, the minimum road width is set by the State law and on a road like this. you will probably need the maximum width, button some of the others Mr. Lind didn' t feel that 34 feet should be required as long as there is ample parking. If you have minimum pavement requirements , cars can get by. Mr. Wickham said that we are not allowed by the Highway Commission to have anything but Town specifications unless they accept this swale project on Fairway Farms and I don't know if the Town Highway Committee will go for another one. Mr,. Lind said that he would like to get away from the box type sump arrangement and try something else. He said he does not go for leaching. Southold Town Planning Board -5- August 9 , 1973 Mr. Leo Kwasneski appeared before the Board with a map of Sleepy Hollow Subdivision. Mr. Wickham said that maybe our concept is not valid but, personally, some of the most attractive places are where the house lots do not go to the waterfront but they have a water view. I have been thinking of keeping a section as park and playground and to have an easement to keep it forever wild. I think we could angle it so the third lot could have access . Mr. Lind asked what the highest water level is . He said this should be based on records of the past to see how often this has been flooded. He , said that Nissequogue has put meadowland into conservation easement. No vegetation can be disturbed; no cesspools can be built in there . Mr. Wickham said that our easement would follow the same lines; there could be no structures , you can't fill, and there would be a rebate on taxes . I can tell you about this particular Creek; it has narrow channels, and is not connected to Corey Creek. When you get easterly storms , it piles in but it does not build up as high as it does in most creeks . This one has no dikes and has a tremendous area to spread out. I would say that 7 feet would be a maximum. Most of these people want to do a minimum of deepening so they can get a small boat in. If we had under our control 400 feet of creek front, we would feel more lenient. I , personally, feel he should get what he wants . The meeting was adjourned at 3 :40 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Marjorie McDermott, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board 40hpnWickham, Chairman