HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/16/1973 z Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLO, L. I., N. Y. 11971
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Molsa
Alfred Grebe
Henry Raynor
Frank Coyle
M I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD . TOWN PLANNING BOARD
July 16 , 1973
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board
was held at 7 :30 p.m. , Monday, July 16 , 1973 , at the Town
Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, . Chairman;
Henry Moisa, Vice Chairman; Henry Raynor; Alfred Grebe.
Absent: Frank S . Coyle.
Also present: Mrs. Lorraine Terry et ano; Mrs. Shirley
Bachrach; Andrew Goodall, Esq. ; Mr. Richard Nagy; Mr. Edward
Bage, P.E.
Mr. Joseph Donovan, Rudolph Bruer, Esq. and Lefferts P.
Edson, Esq. appeared before the Board and presented a revised
sketch plan for Pebble Beach Subdivision. The plan shows a
cluster development with 143 lots on the 163.26 acres . 90 acres,
approximately, will be open space. They propose to leave the
open land near the Main Road in agriculture; it is presently
being farmed. Mr. Donovan said the lots near the bluff are
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Southold Town Planning Board - 2 - July 16 , 1973
approximately 30 , 000 square feet and the rest about 20 , 000
square feet each. Each lot would conform at the building
line with 75 feet width. The map shows proposed turnarounds
for the proposed east-west road and four cul de sac type
roads . They are going to keep the roads private. Beach
parking areas are provided for 42 cars and is surrounded by
trees. The parking area is divided into seven sections with
6 parking spaces in each section. Mr. Donovan said they
will have public water and private septic tanks and cesspools .
Mr. Wickham told Mr. Donovan the Planning Board is meeting
with the County Sewer Agency and Department of Environmental
Control this week and would like to present a copy of the plan.
to them. Mr. Donovan said , but they would not be putting in
a public sewer system. Mr. Wickham said at the present time
each cluster concept has to be taken to the Sewer Agency.
The Board wants to get some guide lines from them. Mr. Wickham
said he has talked to the County Executive about it and he
is favorably inclined. You will have to get approval of the
Town Superintendent of Highways for the roads . The roads are
technically not cul de sacs . Our regulations do say that roads
have to dead end at the property line. You could give an easement
on each one. Mr. Donovan said he would have no objection to
that. They propose not to dedicate the roads to the Town but
don't know what can happen in 10 or 15 years . Mr. Wickham said
the turnarounds can be dotted in on the map; it would not reduce
the square footage of the lots. The area would be marked for
possible future dedication to the Town. Mr. Donovan said they
have studied their financial and legal position on this and have
tried to come up with what they understand to be the spirit of
cluster zoning. This plan is the end result. We would ask the
Board to .'give us a public hearing as rapidly as possible.
Mr. Raynor asked what he was going to have for the average setback
and Mr. Donovan said 35 feet. Mr. Raynor asked if he would
consider 50 feet, due to the depth of the lots. Mr. Donovan
said he would have no particular objection to 50 feet, but on
some roads there would be problems. Along the bluff there is a
special problem. The lots along the bluff have a 100 foot setback
from the bluff line. Mr. Wickham told Mr. Donovan to present
his map to the Town Superintendent of Highways and get a report
from him for the next meeting of the Board. The Planning Board
will talk to the County Sewer Agency. After those things have
been cleared there is no reason why you can 't have a Preliminary
Hearing. Have your engineer mark the courses and distances on
the map for the Preliminary Hearing and submit a legal description.
Mr. Raynor asked Mr. Donovan if he still plans to retain as many
trees as possible and Mr. Donovan said yes , except for those to
be removed in the building process . Mr. Donovan said approximately
40 acres would be left for farm land. Mr. Donovan said he would
be at the next meeting of the Board.
Southold Town Planning Board - 3 - July 16 , 1973
Lefferts P . Edson, Esq. , came before the Board in regard
to a proposed minor subdivision for Clement W. Booth off
North Lane, Southold. The map shows four lots on the
approximately four acres . The map shows another lot owned
by Mr. Booth, but it is not contigious to the minor subdivision.
Mr. Wickham told Mr. Edson the boundary of the subdivision
must be marked in heavy lines and the map must show the names
of the property owners acress the streets .
Mr. Peter Warren came before the Board and said that
the owner and real estate agent for Laurel Country Estates
has been telling people buying lots there that they have
the right to use the beach (between the Sealy and Arthur homes) .
Mr. Warren submitted a copy of a letter sent to neighbors
from the Boulevard Residents Association dated July 15 , 1973 ,
and a copy of the Planning Board minutes of March 24 , 1970,
of the public hearing for Laurel Country Estates . In the
minutes the attorney for Laurel Country Estates stated they
would not deed out any beach rights with the lots. Mr. Warren
said he would like the Board to write a letter to the developer.
Mr. Wickham received the following telegram over the telephone
in regard to this matter from Dr. and Mrs . Philip Ziring:
"At the March 24 1970 meeting of the Southold Town Planning
Board the map of the Laurel Country Estates Subdivision was
approved without beach rights. In the last few weeks many
of these Laurel Country Estates residents have chosen to
defy this decision thus creating a health hazard and
potentially dangerous confrontation with members of the
Boulevard Residents Association who have deeded beach
rights. As members of the Boulevard Residents Association
we request the Town of Southold use whatever means it thinks
necessary to enforce the March 24 1970 decision. "
Mr. Wickham told Mr. Warren the Board will look into the matter
and take the . necessary action.
Mr. Gus Schad and Dick Lark, Esq. , appeared before the
Board in regard to the site plan for condominiums for
Brecknok Hall. Mr . Schad presented a new site plan for the
buildings . Mr. Schad said he had found out that the Zoning
Ordinance only allows four units per building and his plan
is for eight units. The new site plan shows the buildings
clustered and the parking area would be dropped down. Mr. Moisa
told him there may be a problem with drainage. Mr. Lark said
under this plan he can't build. He can 't have more than four
Southold Town Planning Board - 4 - July 16 , 1973
units under any given roof . The concept will have to be
re-thought. With the 145 acres he could have multiple .
residences on 30 acres and file for a subdivision on 70
acres with a cluster. . The advantage is to have the scenic
easement and open space on the residential. Mr. Wickham
said if the Ordinance says no more than four units we have
no right to vary that at all. There are some ways of, doing
it;, you could in some way divide the units. Mr. Wickham
said the multiple residence plan and cluster plan will
have to be handled separately. Mr. Wickham said in, this
particular case he would have no objection to him going
to the Board of Appeals. The Planning Board is meeting
with the Board of Appeals and would be glad to talk to
them about it. We would give a letter of recommendation.
Mr. Schad said this new plan is much different. There is
no trouble with spacing and the density is the same.
Mr. Lark said they plan to tie in the roads, sewage, water
and drainage with the "A" cluster concept. Mr. Schad said
they would be individual homes but under condominium ownership.
Mr. Lark said by clustering they would save money on building
and preserve open space. With condominium ownership then
can share in the open space. Mr. Schad said there are 57 acres
with the condominium area and about 30 buildable acres; the
residential area is about 74 acres - with clustering about
36 acres would be left open in the "A" zone. Mr. Schad
left the .new site plan map and Mr. Wickham said he would
discuss it with the Board of Appeals and Town Board.
Robert Tooker, Esq. and Jim Reeve came before the
Board in regard to Little Neck Properties Subdivision. Mr. Tooker
said the nitrate level had dropped and they have approval of
the County Health Department. Because of the new amendment
to the Zoning Ordinance changing the frontage to 150 feet
their map does not now comply. All the lots are over 40 , 000
square feet and three lots do not have the required 150 feet
frontage. Mr. Wickham told them the Town Attorney has said
the Planning Board has no authority to approve anything that
does not comply with the ' Ordinance. Mr. Tooker asked if the
Board could recommend to the Board of Appeals to grant relief .
He said they have another alternative and that is too' revise
the map. He presented a sketch plan of a cluster development
with 11 lots, each having 40 , 000 square feet and approximately
140 feet frontage. The open space would be about 25% . This
would satisfy the Health Department' s requirements. They would
Southold Town Planning Board - 5 - July 16 , 1973
lose two lots but would not have to construct roads. Mr. Tooker
said they have been assured by the Health Department that the
nitrate problem is taken care of. Mr. Tooker said the park
and playground area would be landscaped and put under a Home
Owners Association. Mr. Tooker also said the Health Department
did require a provision on the map that before any house can
be constructed the well must test satisfactorily. Mr. Wickham
said in many of the cluster -concepts you have to get approval
of the County Sewer Agency and to date they have not established
a criteria. We are meeting with them on Wednesday night and
will discuss this with them. Mr. Tooker said the map would
comply with both the County and Town requirememts.
Mr. Donald Cohen came- before- the Board with a proposed
minor subdiwis'on .for Manuel Almeida. Mr._ Cohen said Mr,. Almeida
has a contract to purchase the property. There is an existing
right of way going to the Sterling property. The owner is
Klam Properties. Mr. Richard Sterling holds the first mortgage.
Mr. Wickham said this property was susposed to have been given
to Mr. Sterling' s son and daughter. This is no reflection on
you. Mr. Sterling said he was going to give the parcel to his
son and daughter. Mr. Wickham said the Board will require
an affidavit of ownership; we want tb know the names of everyone
having an interest. Mr. Cohen said he will submit the affidavit.
Mr. Wickham said the Board will also require a legal instrument'
in recordable form that no lots can be resubdivided. Mr. Cohen
said he would -submit the documents for• the next meeting of the
Board.
Mr. Leo .Kwasneski appeared before the Board in regard to
Sleepy Hollow Subdivision. Mr. Kwasneski said he talked to
the Town Board and the Superintendent of Highways. They told
him to come back to the Planning Board on the park and play-
ground. Mr. Kwasneski asked if money could be paid in lieu
of park and playground. Mr. Wickham said we have never accepted
funds in lieu of land and would have to have the approval of
the Town Board to do it. The Planning Board is meeting with
the Town Board on Wednesday and will discuss it with them.
Mr. Kwasneski said the test holes and test wells have been
marked on the map. Mr. Kwasneski said he thought part of lot #14
would be a good place for the park and playground. The tota•1
area is approximately 17 1/2 acres and there are 14 lots.
Mr. Wickham said he did not think the park and playground would
Southold Town Planning Board - 6 - July 16 , 1973
interfere with the lot area for lot #14 . Mr. Wickham said
the property marked Howell ' s Meadow belongs to the Nature
Conservancy. He asked Mr. Kwasneski about giving a fairly
narrow strip of lot #1 which would tie in with the Nature
Conservancy area so that the public could use it. The
Howell people offered the property to the Town of Southold
before anyone else. We tried to work out something but
could not. Mr. Kwasneski said he would go back to Van Tuyl
and asked about the requirements for filing an application
for a preliminary hearing . Mr. Wickham told him he has to
file an application, a filing fee of $50 plus $5 per acre,
twelve copies of the map and profiles with the Town Clerk
and get a letter of approval from the Superintendent of
Highways. The park and playground could be settled out later.
Charles Cuddy, Esq. , and William Schriever came before
the Board in regard to the proposed cluster development at
Orient. Mr. Cuddy said they are going to go to the Town Board
for the change of zone. Mr. Raynor asked Mr. Schriever if
he had made any positive progress in transferring the land to
the adjacent property owners and Mr. Schriever said he has
permission from a few. Mr. Wickham suggested if he were to
give the Town a negative easement on the open space then he
could sell it subject to the negative easement. The negative
easement is on the land, not on the owner. Then he could do
some of these things after the fact. The land could not be
built on, nor could any structures be placed on it. They
still have to go to the Town Board and the open space must be
in the ownership of the property owners association or some
other approved agreement. The: Board suggested he put a
negative easement on the open space. Mr. Cuddy asked about
the proposed widening of the road. The Board told him they
didn 't think the Town Board would approve 70 feet. That
jurisdiction would be under the Town Board and the Highway
Committee. Mr. Wickham said if the Main Road is 66 feet he
would be on stronger ground to try for 66 feet. Mr. Schriever
said his reason for suggesting 70 feet was because of the
amount of traffic on the street created by the fire department,
cemetery and the excavating business . Mr. Schriever also
said he talked to the Supervisor about the sump and he told
him there would be objection to the zone change. Mr. Schriever
said there is a nitrate problem and they may want to put in a
public water system. Mr. Wickham said the Board would talk
to the Town Board about the development. The open space would
not be deeded to the Town, but would remain in the owners hands
to let him make what arrangements he wanted. At a future time
it would become the property of the home owners association.
Southold Town Planning Board - 7 - July 16 , 1973
Mr. Steve Tsontkas presented a revised sketch plan
for Peconic Knolls Subdivision. Mr. Tsontkas said the
two lots owned by Messrs . Driscoll and Waimey are now
included in the subdivision and they extended the roadway
and allowed for a turnaround. Mr. Tsontkas said he had
spoken to the Superintendent of Highways and he will allow
a waiver on the curbing. Mr: Wickham said the Board will
send the, map to the Superintendent of Highways for his
official comments. The Roads will be private and conform
to the Highway Specifications . The existing right of way
over the property will be ,changed to the road by agreement.
Mr. Wickham said that must be taken care of and a copy of
the agreement given to the Board. Mr. Axien, who has a.
right of way over the property inquired about the road and
how to go about changing the right of way. The Board told
Mr. Tsontkas he must file an application, a base fee and
twelve copies of his preliminary map and profiles with ,the
Town Clerk. He must also submit a letter of disclosure, a
legal description of the property and the Board must have -
approval of the Superintendent of Highways before this can
be set up for a Preliminary Hearing.
The Board discussed Inlet East Subdivision with Bill
Esseks, Esq. Mr. Esseks said the lots had been changed to
conform with the 150 foot frontage requirement. Mr: Wickham
said the Board will need the detail on the drainage and
the courses and distances must be marked on the map. The
Board will submit the map to the Superintendent of Highways.
Mr. Ed Bage, P.E. , Town Engineer spoke to the Board in
regard to roads in subdivisions that go to the shore. He
said the . Highway Specifications call for barriers at the road
ends . They would keep the public from using the roads as
public thoroughfares . Corey Creek Subdivision put in a road that
has become a public thoroughfare; it is a private road. The
homeowners want to include ,.a gate in the barrier-. Mr. Bage
said the barriers should be,. put up at road ends in all subdivisions.
that have roads ending at the shore. Mr. Bage also said
that preliminary maps for subdivisions should include station
and station cuts in the profiles . The Board asked Mr. Bage
to submit criteria for this .
Southold Town Planning Board - 8 July 16 , 1973
Mr. Richard Nagy asked to speak to the Board in regard
to work being done at Major ' s Pond, Orient. Mr. Nagy said
fill has been dumped -in and around the pond. Mr. Nagy presented
a copy of a letter sent to him by the Building Inspector
dated July 5th, stating that the Town Engineer was going
to inspect the work being done. Mr. Bage said some of the
work being done was in connection with the park for Willow
Terrace Subdivision. Mr. Nagy said eight loads of fill has
been dumped' since 'last week. Lorraine Terry presented
pictures of the work being done and the fill placed around
Major ' s Pond taken on July 4 , 1973 . Mrs. Terry asked if
Section II of Willow Terrace borders on Major' s Pond.
Mr. Moisa said Section I has park and playground on his own
property, Section II is not approved. Mr. Nagy said a
parcel of property in Willow Terrace Section was sold in
December 1972 which was 6/10ths of an acre. Mr. Wickham
said he cannot bring in a subdivision map and subsequently
sell one ,of the lots off of it. He is entitled to no
consideration. The Health Department Review Board told him
to reduce the subdivision, Willow Terrace , Section II, from
22 to 15 lots . Lorraine Terry asked if a sand and gravel
permit had ' been issued to Mr. Douglass. Mr: Wickham said
that record .would be with the Town Clerk. I have been told
that he had a permit. This is a Town Ordinance. Mr. Wickham
thanked' them for coming in and Mr. Nagy for his letters.
Mr. Axien again came before the Board in regard to
Peconic Knolls. He wanted to know about the change in the
right of way. Mr. Wickham said every property owner must
agree to the change. The road has to be built to Town' s
specifications; 36 feet paved. The road must meet the
standards even though it is not dedicated. The Subdivision
cannot be approved unless the right of way is shown on the
map or eliminated.
Lorraine Terry reported that she- had more information
on the _cemetery at Major' s Terrace. The cemetery was a
private burial ground. It was primarily a King cemetery.
She said she called Title Guarantee and a man there told
her there were State regulations covering these things.
Mr. Wickham said the Board would be glad to know of any
State regulations or anything filed with the County Clerk
on the-�c.emetery.
Southold Town Planning Board - 9 July 16 , 1973
On motion of Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that the preliminary plat of Fairway Farms
Subdivision .located at Cutchogue, New York, be approved
subject to the approvals and endorsements of all necessary
Town, County and State Agencies and subject to the
following modifications of the subdivision map dated July 13 ,
1973 : (1) map must show construction of the road to the
)southerly boundary of lot #17 ; (2) map must show lot to be'
reserved for .possible future drainage; ".(3') -lots #33 and #34
must have 150 feet frontage on road; (4) property in name
of Estate of F. H. Case immediately adjacent to Cedars
Golf Club must be included in subdivision.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Moisa, Grebe, Wickham,
Raynor.
On motion of Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that the preliminary plat of Crown Land Lane
Subdivision located at Cutchogue, New York, be approved
subject to receipt of a copy of the preliminary map showing
courses and distances and subject to the approvals and
endorsements of all necessary Town, County and State Agencies.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Raynor, Moisa, Grebe,
Wickham. ,
On Motion of Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that the Planning Board waive the requirements
for submission of the application and fee for Orient-By-The-Sea
Section 3 , two weeks prior to the meeting of the Board and
set July 30, 1973 at 7 :30 p.m. for a preliminary public hearing.
Vote of the. Board: Ayes : Messrs. Raynor, Grebe ; Wickham,
Moisa.
Mr. Raynor reported that Mike .Tsontkas has talked to him
and wants to present plans for an adult home off Factory Avenue,
Mattituck to the Board at its next meeting. He also reported
that some people have talked him about fixing the roads in
Southold Town Planning Board - 10 - July 16, 1973
Deep Hole Creek Estates . They want assurance from the Town
Board that they will take the reads over after they are
fixed. The Board will recommend that they get in touch with
the Town Board, as they are anxious to institute a road
improvement district.
In regard to Little Neck Properties subdivision the
Board will require a schedule of plantings for the open area.
In regard to Peconic Knolls subdivision the Board
will require a letter from the Superintendent of Highways
in regard to the waiver of the curbs.
On motion of Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED that the June 13th and June 29th minutes of the
Planning Board be approved.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Moisa, Raynor, Grebe,
Wickham.
On motion of Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that the next regular meeting of the Southold
Town Planning Board will be July 30, 1973 , at 7 :30 p.m. , at
the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, N.Y.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs . Raynor, Grebe, Wickham,
Moisa.
The meeting was adjourned at 12 : 00 midnight.
Respectfully submitted,
hn Wickham, Chairman Terri Lee Elak Secxeta
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