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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-01/11/1973 oS�FFot��o _ - o Southold Town Planning Board T S❑UTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wickham, Chairman Henry Molsa Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle M I N U T E S SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD January 11, 1973 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 7 :30 p.m. , Thursday, January 11, 1973 , at the Town Office,, Main Road, Southold, New York. There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Moisa, Vice Chairman;. Henry Raynor, Frank Coyle, Alfred Grebe. - Also present: Howard Terry, Building Inspector THE CHAIRMAN: I will call the meeting to order on the hearing for the property known as "Land' s End Subdivision" consisting of approximately 35 acres at Orient in the Town of Southold. Henry Raynor read the legal notice of hearing as follows:- y to 0• Southold Town Planning Board - 2 - January 11, 1973 NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of the Town Law, a public hearing will be held by the Southold Town Planning Board at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York, in said Town on the llth day of January, 1973 , it 7 : 30 o 'clock in the evening of said day, on the question of the approval of the following plat: 1 . Plat of property owned by Land' s End Realty entitled "Land ' s End" , consisting of a parcel of land of 35 .553 acres, situated at Orient, In the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, and bounded and described as follows : BEGINNING at a point on the northerly line of Main Road, 728 . 35 feet easterly along said northerly line from Plum Island Lane, said point of beginning being the southeasterly corner of land of George L. Young, Jr. , ; from said point of beginning running along said land, two courses : (1) N. 0° 20 ' 40" E. - 400 . 0 feet; thence (2) S . 82° 06 ' 40" W. - 179 .74 feet to land of Woodhollow Properties, Inc . ; thence along said land, along Orient By The Sea, Section I and along land of Lieblein, two courses : (1) N. 0° 20 ' 40" E. - 516 . 98 feet to a monument; thence (2) N. 1° 02 ' 2011 .E. - 1300 . 0 feet to ordinary high water mark of Long Island Sound; thence along said high water mark as measured by the following three tie lines : (1) N. 89° 20 ' 30" E. - 346 .22 feet; thence (2) S . 51° 07 ' E. - 398 . 24 feet; thence (3) S . 32° 51 ' 40" E. - 372 . 27 feet to land of Wilsberg; thence along said land of Wilsberg, five courses: (1) S . 10 18 ' 50" W. - 990 . 0 feet to a monument; thence (2) S . 820 45 ' 40" W. - 171. 08 feet to a monument; thence (3) S . 1° 25 ' 10" W. - 286 . 06 feet to a monument; thence (4) S . 82° 50 ' 20" W. - 70 .44 feet to a monument; thence (5) S . 20 19 ' 40" W. - 222 . 96 feet to a monument on said northerly line of Main Road; thence, along said northerly line, two courses : Southold Town Planning Board - 3 - January 11, 1973 (1) S . 76° 24 ' 10" W. - 432 . 96 feet; thence (2) Westerly on a curiae to the right, having a radius of 1009 .14 feet, a distance. of 10 . 51 feet to the point of beginning. Containing 35 . 553 acres . Any person desiring to be heard on the above matter should appear at the time and place above specified. Dated: December 20 , 1972 BY ORDER OF THE SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD JOHN WICKHAM, CHAIRMAN PLEASE PUBLISH ONCE, DECEMBER 28 , 1972 , AND FORWARD TWO (2) AFFIDAVITS OF PUBLICATION TO THE SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD, MAIN ROAD, SOUTHOLD, NEW YORK. Copies mailed to the following on December 20, 1972 : The Long Island Traveler-Mattituck Watchman The Suffolk Weekly Times Land ' s End Realty THE CHAIRMAN: I will read a letter from the Planning Board to the Suffolk County Planning Commission dated January 9 , 1973 : Dear Sir : Enclosed please find three (3) copies of final map of subdivision "Land ' s End" , N.S Main Road at Orient ,: Point, N.Y. , together with two (2) copies of road profiles with drainage & grading elevations . You will note that reservation has been made on the rear of lots No 15 & 16 for additional drainage if necessary, the land is a gradual slope from sound (the north) to State road (south) and should have no "water traps" or serious drainage problems . A permit for connection to State road has been secured by the developers . Southold -ruwn Planning Board - 4 - January 11, 1973 The enclosed material is to replace submission lost in mail in December. I believe that all items previously discussed have been covered in this map. Yours truly, John Wickham, Chairman Planning Board THE CHAIRMAN: It has been the policy of this Board never to hold a hearing without a complete file and approval of all other agencies . At this time, because of the interest of the large number of people it has been decided that we should hold the hearing and recess it. I should like to reverse the usual procedure of asking for those who wish to speak against the subdivision and then for those to speak in ..favor of it. It would appear there is a great number of people who should like to speak in opposition and perhaps relatively few wishing to speak for it. I will now ask for those wishing to speak in favor of this subdivision. MR. KROEHLER: I have brought the bond for $100, 000 and a list of deed restrictions . I am in favor of this and I want to go on record that we might change the profiles . THE CHAIRMAN: For your information Mr. Kroehler has passed on deed restrictions that the developers are prepared to put on all deeds for the homeowners in this subdivision. The bond will next 'go to the Town Board and they must send notice of acceptance to the, Planning Board and only after that is completed may the Planning Board give its approval. I will turn the bond over to the Secretary. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in favor of the subdivision Land ' s End? (There was no responce: ) HOWARD TERRY: The Planning Commission has acknow- ledged receij� t:of th'e papers on this subdivision. THE CHAIRMAN: I will now open the meeting to those who wish to speak in opposition to this subdivision. . Before we get started, and in the interest of saving a little time, I would like to call to your attention that the Town of Southold under enabling legislation of the State of New York has established zoning laws that have been amended. This Planning Board has established Southold Town Planning Board 7. 5 - January 11, 1973 rules and regulations. These have been presented at public hearings and approved by the Town Board. Legally, if any subdivider meets all of the, provisions of zoning and of the Planning Board this Board may not say we will not approve it. We are forced. to say yes, if all of the conditions have been met, which is why we are so sticky about having the files complete in every detail . We - are holding a hearing on one subject. Please make your comments germane to- this subject. ROBERT DE MARIA: I would like to read a statement, , which has been distributed 'to members of the Board, prepared by The Committee To Save Orient Point. First I would like to know if there is any possibility of moving the hearing to. a larger room. . (At this time there was discussion about moving the hearing across the street to the hall in the Southold Presbyterian Church. ) Mr. DeMaria read the statement of The Committee To. Save Orient Point, a cppy of which is annexed hereto and made a part hereof. At approximately. 8 : 0'0 The Chairman recessed the hearing to reconvene in the hall of the Presbyterian Church. After reconvening in the Church The Chairman introduced the members of the Planning Board and the Secretary to the approximately 70 people attending the hearing. THE CHAIRMAN: I have the list of those signing the petition and am giving it to the Secretary for the permanent record. LORRAINE TERRY: I would like to read a letter to the Planning Board from the North Fork Environmental Council: Gentlemen: The North Fork Environmental Council, Inc. , strongly urges you to deny the application for the Land ' s End Realty development known as Land ' s End. We base this decision on: the quantity and quality of water needed for an additional development in this area has not been clearly defined in regard to it' s own use, as well as those water resources needed for the entire district. In addition, we strongly urge a moratorium on all site developments until the problems concerning water, wastes and services can be studied and resolved. Respectively submitted, North Fork Environmental Council, Inc. Lorraine S. Terry, Pres . Southold Town Planning Board - 6 - January 11, 1973 FRED EDSON: I did not get a chance to sign the petition, but I want to back it up 100 percent. ORVILLE TERRY: If an honest vote were taken in the community the majority would pay they would prefer the Town as it is now rather than like the west end. It is time for those of us who are really interested in this to act. If the majority want it stopped, I can't see any reason why it can 't be stopped. I think we should apply pressure to encourage them to do something. DICK LESLIE : I drove from New York City to attend this meeting and drove by a majority of the developments on the west end. In driving through all those mistakes in planning in the western half of the county I am further resolved to see this does not happen to Orient and East Marion. JEAN TIEDKE, League .of Women Voters : We have presented to the Town Board of Southold a petition wh.ich .-: in effect was to ask the Town Board to prepare a compil- ation of maps, surveys, etc. , to determine what is left and why it should be developed in the entire town. MRS . LYTLE : Where can we obtain, a copy of the Master Plan and a copy of the text of the zoning that goes with the Master Plan? THE CHAIRMAN: We probably do not have them. I think you all must realize that zoning and planning are not fixed and that it changes from year to year and sometimes in as little as from month to month. Therefore, we do not have at any time but one official zoning map for the Town of Southold. We do not have available for public distribution an up-to-date zoning map. There is only one official map at the Town Clerk' s office . The ones which are for $5 a sheet are adequate, but at no time is any map the official map except one. This is kept up to date. We try and keep a copy filed on the wall in the Town Clerk' s office, but this is not the official map. It is a copy. These others are reasonably accurate except for minor changes. . The Master Plan has been presented in map form; this is available. The Zoning Ordinance is kept up to date; this is available. We do not have a text that goes with the Master Plan, but this has been presented at the series of hearings which we had • Southold Town Planning Board - 7 -_ January 11, 1973 and the Planning Board interpreted the sentiment at the time of the presentation which received 85% support of those attending, to be regarded as the guiding principles. MRS . LYTLE: Why. isn' t there a text? THE CHAIRMAN: The Planning Board of the Town of Southold is a part time business . We - get compensation for_ part_ time. Many weeks I work 30 hours as Planning Board Chairman. This week it will be in excess of that, for which I get paid for about 1/20th of my time. We simply can 't do it. We should have a Public Relations Department. ROBERT BERKS : We -have a very active, civic minded newspaper- and I am sure if you made this available it would be published. .THE CHAIRMAN: We are aware of that and consider ourselves fortunate to have the two newspapers in the Town. We ,use them to the utmost and I am sure Mr. and Mrs. Dorman and Mr. and Mrs . Booth ak&',most cooperative. Just bear in mind that the Planning Board are appointed by the Town Board and it does not come in very good grace for the Chairman to say you ought to make us full time jobs and pay us .in accordance. I feel and hope that some of the pressure has been taken off. I am pleased to see you. Personally I want you to know that we welcome everyone of you. You are saying the things we want to hear. We wish you would have come up two years ago. We were promoting two acre zoning and got no+wtakers . We have been promoting and have the most restrictive zoning in the County of Suffolk and perhaps in the State of New York. Just to point up : a few other things - most of you know I am a farmer. Farming has got very real problems. This Board, Lee Koppleman, County Planning, State Planning and Governor Rockefellar thin<X the best way to preserve open space is to keep it in agriculture. I think you know that other Towns, Riverhead and Southampton, are being simply flooded with subdivision requests. They ' do not have as good zoning as we have and they will probably go under. We get almost everyday requests "Can we put condominiums in Orient Point - Robins Island - Southold - Bayview" and we say no, you must have the zone changed. All other Towns can put condominiums in Residential zones. In the Town of Southold you have to have the zoned changed to either Business or Multiple Residence. This has been more good luck than good management. We want more restrictive zoning in the Town of Southold. We want to do more for agriculture because we think this is the best way for Eastern Long Island. To me it is important that Southold Town .Planning Board - 8 - January 11, 1973 Eastern Long Island be preserved for the food needs of the Metropolitan East. We have to have support. We still have to operate within the framework and the best we know is to turn down the screws on zoning in general. The next stop is 2 1/2 acre zoning. The Courts have challenged time after time people who say we don 't want it. I want to tell you the way I feel about it. I feel the Planning Board should not and cannot make any decision at this time . We won 't have to make a decision until such time as we hear from the County and when we have approval of the bond from the Town Board. At the same time there is a legal limit to how long we can hold things up.:, ._-We either have to approve it or disapprove it. At that time we will seek the advice of our Town Attorney and we will take each step we can to slow down development. In order to maintain Southold Town the way we want it, you have to say no most of the time. We cannot say no all of the time. When you say no you have to have the support of the people. What you may not understand is the Planning Board and the Town Board feel just the way you do about it. We don't want development. It can be documented the cost in the future outweighs the immediate advantages and legally the Courts have ruled that we may not always say no. LORRAINE TERRY: Please explain about not making a decision until you hear from the County. THE CHAIRMAN: The maps submitted to the County Planning Commission were lost in the mail . If the County Planning Commission were to say no, that would be the end. We then say our files are not complete and we would not hold a hearing. We must have approval of all agencies having jurisdiction. The engineers for the developers have sent another set of plans to the County Planning Commission. I would think that the chances of the County Planning Commission turning down this application is pretty remote. They have looked at the maps before ,and made suggestions and it would not be good,.'?�policy at this late date to say no. Our file is not complete, therefore, we cannot complete the meeting. CONNIE TERRY: Is there any action the citizens can take which would change the outcome of this meeting? THE CHAIRMAN: In my opinion there is nothing that can be done at this late date about this subdivision. They have met all the requirements. I think we can drag our feet to the legal limit. The Town Board has said they will have to put up a $100 , 000 bond. The bond has been passed on to the Secretary in the amount of $100 , 000 . This is the bond they asked for. Southold Planning Board - January 11 , 1973 CONNIE TERRY: There is no alternative? THE CHAIRMAN: I think the suggestion that Mr. DeMaria made is a good one. The suit that you suggest is rarely made but it is in order. This is .the vehicle that the developer will use if for any reason we were to say no. I have to say it has been the policy of the Town of Southold, expressed by the Supervisor and the Planning Board, it is our aim to slow down development and I mean all development. MR. DeMARIA: Can we assume that we have at least 90 days after a meeting at which approval is being requested? THE CHAIRMAN: I would assume that it would mean 90 days after this meeting is again called. We are getting in touch with the Town Attorney tomorrow and we only act on advice of counsel. ARTHUR TYRELL: Since you have been elected as the Planning Board and I think you have here at this meeting a sufficient sign the immediate inhabitants are against this development, where does your position stand legally? I do not feel that you would have to approve this . I think you have a clear expression of the inhabitants present. I am not an attorney. I am not able to give the answers that the Courts will give. THE CHAIRMAN: I am a part time officer and not elected, but appointed. From my experience of about 17 years in this job, the law says and we operate under enabling legislation that health, safety and welfare are not adversely affected. If you could prove that the water supply endangers the health through nitrates or shortage of supply, but to us this is questionable in due of the fact that the County Health Department has said one acre zoning. More is known about the water supply in the Town of Southold than in any comparable area in the United States . Both the State and local governments have made studies of underground water resources in the Town of Southold. As far as safety goes , if it were a matter of fire protection or highway access there would be no question. I have told you we get some inquiries about Robins Island. There is in New Suffolk about 150 acres currently and over 400 acres on Robins Island and think what that would do to the New Suffolk School District. Robins Island has no access . At the present we are saved, but Robins Island is a place to think about 2 1/2 to 5 acre zoning for the Town of Southold. Welfare becomes nebulous . In my opinion Southold Town Planning Board - 10 - January 11, 1973 we feel and as I have said, we can stall but we cannot say no without being in grave danger .of 'the courts upsetting... it. This is the basis for restrictive legislation which we cal'11-. zoning laws. ARTHUR TYRELL: On what do you base your decision? THE CHAIRMAN: I can only say what our attorney says, that=e:.it has to be pinned on one of these. RICHARD CRON, ESQ.: I think what you have to realize is that you are dealing with a law enacted by the legislative body of the Town of Southold, being the Town Board, and it grants to all citizens of the Town of Southold certain rights with .respect to the development of property interest. The- only way you can stop development - in an area is to stop people from coming in., But, as long as you have a law that says if certain requirements are met and they are deemed to be Constitutional and the people obey the law,there is nothing that can be done. ANDREW GOODALL, ESQ: What Mr. Cron said is that the Planning Board is endowed with a function that is in line with the police power of the State, namely that they can regulate anything that has to do with health, safety, welfare or morals and when you own property that is obviously against any of these the Courts are going to sustain it. On the other hand, if you have a piece of property that is developed to its highest uses and broadens the tax rase that is in the interest of the community. The point was raised that the Town of Ramapo had a test case along these lines . There the developer came in and decided to put a very high density per acre on his property. You have a certain density per acre when you make multiple residences and the increases do put a strain on the sewerage and of course Ramapo does not have the same type of soil that is here. The courts did hold up the people of Ramapo and it was on the ground that the zoning board is charged with the responsibility of having orderly growth, and orderly growth means that .you will not spot zone, etc. In this case all the hazards for disorderly growth have been met then the Courts may say you need a moratorium. In this particular case I don't know what power the County comes inuuhder. Southold Town Planning Board - 11 - January 11, 1973 THE CHAIRMAN: The County Planning Commission has review within 500 feet of open water or a County highway. RICHARD CRON, ESQ. : I would not depend on the Ramapo case. The factual circumstances are different in this case . CONNIE TERRY: If Southold Town is going to propose two acre zoning what action is necessary to propose it and if such action was proposed would it delay the settlement in this particular case? THE CHAIRMAN: You cannot expect the Town Board in this Town to go out and say we are going to make more restrictive zoning. The Planning Board has been saying we want to have more restrictive zoning. We feel and the Town Board has said at the hearings when the last zoning amendments were put through, we have to say no most of the time . We have got a great many people and the least of who are the farmers, who still own 75% of all the land and they say you are disenfranchising us and are taking away our chance for profit ORVILLE TERRY: Because they are farmers, they should not run the town. The one vote-one man principle is contrary to that point of view. The public interest is what you have to be concerned with. HENRY RAYNOR: (Adressing Mr. DeMaria) Your Committee To Save Orient Point has some well taken ideas . Has your group considered adding the property to the Park District? That may be a little rash, it is a lot of money, but if you people want to see this property maintained and open - have you approached the Park Commissioners? Have you talked to the developers to find our if they would forestall this subdivision. I am just suggesting something. This subdivision has been worked on over a year and they have a lot of money invested. Have you people taken ,a course in a different direction to try to advert this? ROBERT DeMARIA: If there could be sufficient time after this hearing such negotiations might take place. We have talked to members of the County Planning Commission about acquiring the property with a lease-back arrangement since they have more money. They claimed that it was possible to take the land and lease it back to the Town or Park District. .• Southold Town Planning Board - 12 - January 11, 1973 HENRY RAYNOR: You are aiming at a County controlled level? ROBERT DeMARIA: They will lease it back to the Park District. We want a denial or delay of this application. BILL TERRY: You are in the Orient-East Marion School district. , We have not yet done anything about it. HENRY RAYNOR: This createsa problem because you said the Orient-East Marion towns work as a unit. If you have a group of 300 petitioners and you feel that this can be expounded upon, there are many alter- natives . ROBERT DeMARIA: The notice of public hearings is very short. We don't know who the principles of the corporation are . HENRY RAYNOR: All the Planning Board meetings are public meetings . People here have been at the meetings and there was knowledge beforehand. ARTHUR TYRELL: Would it be helpful to have a resolution from this meeting either asking for a denial or for an adjournment of the decisionn for 90 days? THE CHAIRMAN: No. I think that we would not be on strong legal ground to encourage or allow it. This is a hearing to discuss and to hear opinions of those favoring the subdivision entitled Land ' s End and to hear those who oppose it. The Chairman will not encourage any organization at this time. We are very cautious when we think there is any chance that the hearing or deliberations are going to be the object of a court suit. On the other hand' I have told you that all of us are anxious to restrict development. ORVILLE TERRY: If a hearing is held and a predominate group request a moratorium, do you than in turn recommend this to someone else? Southold Town Planning Board - 13 - January 11, 1973 THE- CHAIRMAN: The Town Board has always authorized the Planning Board in all such cases to take charge. We ,defer to no one. , We have been authorized to proceed in these cases . On the other hand, we are interested, we will take the course which is advised by the counsel Employed by the Town. We will try to persue the . policy of the Town. Someone asked about text and maps. At the time of amendments to the Zoning Ordinance, which were a little more than a year a ago, the text, development plan and maps were placed in the Town Clerk ' s Office, Supervisor' s Office and every library in .the Town of Southold. ARMAND ROSE: I would like you to explain to us how this meeting or any meeting can influence the decision if you say the requirements have been met and there is a legal obligation to grant this petition. This meeting is to inform the Board the people of East Marion and Orient are not in favor of this and we assume that you would like to hear this opinion but what effect will it have on your decision? THE CHAIRMAN: We will be in touch with our Town Attorney tomorrow. We will ask if this can be held up the legal 90 days and we will get an answer. We will ask what weight should be given to the almost 100% protest from nearby residents and he will give an answer. I am not prepared to even guess it. JEAN TIEDKE: Why are the hearings held this late in the procedure? Why not earlier when they are first presented? THE CHAIRMAN: This is why we make all our meetings open. This is why we should have a Public Relations Department. This is why we try and keep in very close touch with the newspapers . We want- the people to be aware of what is going on. HENRY MOISA: As of January 1, 1973 , we will have hearings on preliminary applications of each subdivision. If we are mandated, we will also have a second hearing at the final presentation. I,t will - be published five days prior to the meeting. THE CHAIRMAN: I feel that it is vitally important that you understand where the Planning Board stands. Why it takes the action. it does. Why it feels the way it does and I am going to ask. from now on the remainder of the hearing be confined to people speaking in opposition to the subdivision under discussion. Soutbold Town Planning Board - 14 - January 11 , 1973 ORVILLE TERRY: Have you really made a detailed study of the water requirements of this subdivision in terms of the amount of water available in that verya. narrow peninsulA - The County will approve any water plan that involves one acre zoning. Do you have a detailed overall plan which will justify this subdivison? THE CHAIRMAN: No , we depend on the County Health Department doing this. We also concur in the opinions of the County Health Department regarding the sufficiency of one acre zoning for single residences . ORVILLE TERRY: That is in general , not in this particular situation. THE CHAIRMAN: We have studies to back this up and to back up one acre zoning in this location. This Board is satisfied and the County Health Department is satisfied. TODD BERKS : We feel that when it comes to a decision we will be defeated in our efforts . Can you make any recommendation as to how we might reverse the decision? THE CHAIRMAN: I cannot give you advice at this time. ROBERT DeMARIA: We talked to the Health Department about the water situation and they.-J"mdde it clear that their judgment is open to challenge by legal action. Any.-!Judgment made in this case might be vunerable, and possible reversible. THE CHAIRMAN: Our water surveys and planning consultants have told us we know more about the water in this town that any similar town. CONNIE TERRY: Have you had a report of the water on this side clearing it for people of all ages? In Orient By The Sea two people said they have had the water tested within the last few years and the water should not be given to infants . Do you have any statement from the Health Department which would restrict it in any way? THE CHAIRMAN: No, and I want to point our another thing. The newspapers have printed some articles about nitrates. More nitrates were contributed by homeowners than agriculture. Nitrates are a very serious problem. 0 Southold Town Planning Board - 15 - January 11, 1973 MR. BERKS : Your decision is based upon the legality of it. THE CHAIRMAN: Our decision is usually based on fullfillment of the requirements . MR. BERKS : Definitions are changing. There is not a clear cut definition of these things . We have brought up things which are challenging. THE CHAIRMAN: It depends on the Court' s decision and we are guided by the Court' s decision. We have the most restrictive zoning in the County of Suffolk. MR. BERKS : We have a unique situation of land. THE CHAIRMAN: If no one else wishes to speak in opposition, I will now adjourn the hearing until the file is complete. Dick Lark, Esq. , and Stanley Sledjeski appeared before the Board and requested release of the bond for Laurel Country Estates . Mr. Lark said he had spoken to the Superintendent of Highways and he said the requirements have been met. He also presented a survey and report made by Alden Young, dated January 11, 1973 . Mr. Raynor said we would have to get a verification from Mr. Dean as the only letter in our file is the one dated December 8 , 1972 , stating that the drainage is inadequate . Alden Young explained the changes made on the drainage map submitted. Mr. Coyle said we will have to get a more recent letter from the Superintendent of Highways . Mr. Raynor asked if Alden Young supervised the installation of the pools . Mr. Young said he did not. Mr. Sledjeski told the Board that he has hired someone to clean the pools out as soon as weather permits . Mr. Moisa told them the Board cannot do anything until they receive official notification. Mr. Raynor said most of the drainage problems was runoff from the buildings and I have talked with Mr. Sledjeski and it is my under- standing the corporation has purchased remaining lots . Mr. Sledjeski said on the last two houses a trench two or three feet deep was dug so that the water would run only into that trench. Mr. Wickham suggested that any seeding of lawns be followed immediately by a light Southold Town Planning Board - 16 - January 11, 1973 application of straw or something. The worse problem occurs when the lawns are graded in the fall and then not seeded. A light application of straw would rectify or help the problem. We have received complaints of adjacent property owners in new developments and in most cases it is caused .by new homeowners who simply don' t realize that you can 't grade lawns late in the fall and get grass . established. Mr . Raynor asked if they can get a covenant from Inland Homes . Mr. Lark said they can when he becomes the contract vendee, but some of the lots have been sold to third parties . On motion of Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED That the Planning Board will recommend release of the bond in Laurel Country Estates to the Town Board on receipt of the following : (1) Letter from the Superintendent of Highways approving the drainage; (2) letter from Emma Enterprises that the drainage system will be cleaned out; and (3) a letter from Inland Homes that in all cases where they are the contract vendee a trench will be dug in the front portion of (thetpropertyrty to prevent the dirt from running into the road. Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs . Coyle, Grebe, Moisa, Raynor , Wickham. Rudolph Bruer, Esq. , presented the preliminary maps for a minor subdivision for Kimon Retzos and asked for opinions on the layout. Mr. Moisa told him there will be problems getting a mortgage without a 30 foot right of way. Mr. Wickham wanted to know if Eastern Excavating had access for a 50 foot road and Mr. Bruer said they would use the right of way on the map. Mr. Raynor asked if Retzos bought Eastern Excavating Co.,. or owned any other property adjacent to this and Mr. Bruer said no. A right of way was given or sold to a corporation and it was not put on record. The corporation was bought out and in a title search with regard to Bondarchuk, it was something that could not be rectified and Bondarchuk took it anyway. Mr. .Raynor asked if it was a filed right of way. Mr. Terry said it was recited in deeds. Mr. Wickham told him unless Southold Town Planning Board - 17 - January 11, 1973 he has a right of way over it we cannot accept it as access for lots 2 and 3 . Mr. Bruer was advised to inform his client that banks have been unwilling to give a mortgage on a subdivision with less than a 30 foot right of way. The matter will be held over to the next meeting on February 8 , 1973 . Mr. Bruer also presented the revised minor subdivision map for Andrew Hahn on Indian Neck Road, Peconic . Mr. Wickham advised Mr. Bruer that the Planning Board has been under pressure from the Town Board about too many minor subdivisions. One of the conditions of our minor subdivision regulations is a bond on an established highway. This has not been interpreted, but the question is whether having 100 feet on an established highway will qualify it for inclusion. The Town Highway Superintendent has said that he is strongly recommending that when we have a minor subdivision more than 300 to 400 feet deep that the roads comply with Town specifications. Hahn .may be evading the major subdivision regulations . I am suggesting you take this under consideration. There is no question that the Planning Board is going to tighten down on minor subdivisions . We are going to look to the letter of the law and where we can we are going to stick with it. Mr. Wickham said he would talk to counsel on it and report to Mr. Bruer at the next meeting. Mr. Bruer also asked for the Board ' s opinion on a proposed change of zone for a fish market on property across the street from the Peconic Liquor Store . The Board informed him that they have stated and the plans for development state that business development should be in the Village. Stanely S. Corwin, Esq. , presented a sketch plan for a major subdivision for Poscillico . It is the interior part of Wickham Park. Mr. Coyle asked if any of the roads are established now and Mr. Corwin said no. Mr. Corwin said that Mr. Poscillico owns the property individually. Mr. Wickham told Mr. Corwin that the Superintendent of Highways has told us he wants an area, like the swampy one Southold Town Planning Board - 18 - January 11, 1973 on this map, for a sump. Mr. Corwin said Mr. Poscillico is in the earth moving business and road building business. All lots are over 40, 000 square feet and have public water. Mr. Wickham told him the Board will look at the property. Richard Cron, Esq. , attorney for Leeward Acres requested release of the bank passbooks for this subdivision. Mr. Wickham said the Planning Board has received a letter from the Superintendent of Highways recommending release of the bond but has not received notification of approval from the Town Board Highway Committee. He informed Mr. Cron as soon as all approvals are received the Planning Board would recommend release of the bond. Domonic Aurichio, Esq. , attorney for Petty' s Bight Subdivision at Orient, N.Y. , appeared before the Board and requested that the final maps be approved and signed by the Planning Board. On motion of Mr. Coyle , seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board give final approval , to Petty' s Bight Subdivision at Orient, New York, and authorizes the Chairman to sign the maps . Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Coyle, Moisa, Raynor, Wickham, Grebe. Richard Lark, Esq. , appeared before the Board in regard to a previous application for change of zone for Anna Hansen on property at Mattituck. On December 28 , 1970 , the Planning Board passed a resolution confirming their original recommendation with some additional recommendations . Mr. Lark said at the time that was Southold Town Planning Board - 19 - January 11, 1973 done they did not have sufficient engineering data as to whether the recommendations of the Planning Board could be implemented. The reason it has not been brought before you sooner is we did not have a competent purchaser who would develop the property. We negotiated with several purchasers about the covenants and restrictions placed by the Planning Board. The Chairman read the original recommendation dated November 18 , 1969 and the letter to the Town Board dated December 29 , 1970 as follows : Southold Town Board 16 South Street November 18 , 1969 Greenport, New York Gentlemen: This is to advise you that the following action was taken by the Southold Town Planning Board at a regular meeting held on November 17 , 1969 : In the matter of the original petition of Anna C . Hansen, Mattituck, New York, relative to a change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to ! M" Multiple Residence District on PARCEL 1 and from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District on PARCEL II , property located north side of Mill Road, Mattituck, New York. It was RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board does favorably recommend to the Southold Town Board the change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "M" Multiple Residence District on PARCEL I and from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District on PARCEL II at the above described location. Respectfully submitted, John Wickham, Chairman Southold Town Planning Board Southold Town Board 16 South Street December 19 , 1970 Greenport, New York Gentlemen: This is to advise you that the following Southold Town Planning Board - 20 January 11, 1973 resolution was passed by the Southold Town Planning Board at, a regular meeting held on December 28, 1970 : In the matter of the original petition of Anna C. Hansen, Mattituck, New York, relative to a change- of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "M" Multiple Residence District on PARCEL I . and from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District on PARCEL II , property located at north side o-f Mill Road, Mattituck, New York: IT WAS RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby confirms their original recommen- dation with the following additional recommen- dations on the above described proposed change of zone: It is recommended that this. proposed project meet all of the requirements of the proposed new amendments to the Zoning Ordinance, including the density requirements. It is also recommended that the meadow island be left in a natural state and we are including in this recommendation a sketch which appears reasonable to the Planning Board showing finger piers on the east side of the island and a minimum 50 ft. roadway and 100 ft. tutn-around. We strongly recommend the , proposed location of the gas dock be changed to either the north or south extremity of the meadow island. Respectfully submitted, John Wickham, Chairman Southold Town Planning Board Mr. Lark said in the interim after this recommendation and the time a public hearing was set, the contract vendee backed out. Finally a purchaser came to us. He is interested in buying the property and developing it, and agrees to work with the Planning Board; he - also agrees to the restrictions and covenants. We are Southold Town Planning Board - 21 - January 11, 1973 entering into a contract on behalf of Mrs . Hansen with Mr. Frank Knispel. The engineering is being done by r? Herman Bishop. .. Mr. .Wickham told Mr. Lark that the application would have to be amended. Mr. Knispel also came before the Board and asked for some recommendations of the Planning Board. Mr. Lark said the condept is still the same, to develop the entire parcel as multiple residence .with .some. business as a recreational complex. Mr: Knispel said he would like to retain the Creek front without bulkheading. Mr. Wickham said the Board did11 suggests that the middle island be left in a natural state. If you are going to put a road down there then I am not sure three years later we are going. to make the same recommendation. The immediate question arises - this is a meadow island, if you are going to put a road down there you will have to' provide access . Mr- Lark said they had a survey done on Sebastian' s Gutter. We did a study about the types of grass and the water. Mrs . Hansen said birds did not come there anymore. Conservationists have told is . the water is polluted. One recommendation they. did make was that this should be opened to permit a cleansing with. the rise and fall of the tide. It would make it healthier. Mr: Knispel _ said Mr. Bishop recommended culverts but he thought it, wouid be better to. bridge the area. Before entering into any agreement with, Mrs . Hansen he said he did some. research. He went to the State Environmental Conser- vation Department and talked to the Assistant Commissioner. He showed him a. chart of the area which they have catalogued as partial . wetlands. The Commissioner recommended- that if he could do something recreational he would recommend deleting it from=his proposals for purchase. He said he then went to the Commerce Department and they said they would highly recommend the development of the area and they would recommend financing it. Mr. Raynor asked Mr. Knispel what amount of dredging and type of docks he proposed. Mr. Knispel said the dredging would enlarge the basin. He said he was interested in the pleasure boating end of the business - the resort end of the business . Mr: Lark said the area will require a sewage treatment plant. Mr. Wickham told him the Planning Board is shying away from maximum density operations. He asked if any of the area could remain in "A" District. Mr. Knispel said he contemplated using some of the property in cluster zoning. Mr. Raynor asked if he had a site plan overlay. Mr. Lark said that they were just presenting their ideas to the Planning Board for their recommendations. Mr. Knispel said he wanted to use floating docks . The engineer, Bishop . said the banks will support the weight. Mr. Wickham said the real problem with floating docks is the rise and fall of the tide and icing up. Mr. Knispel said he planned to develop the Southold Town PlanningBBoard 22 - January 11, 1973 area into a Mystic Seaport type of thing. He would like to use part of the area for the display of old boats. He wants to do all of the building in a "down east" type atmosphere and appearance. He said he is looking to do a reconstruction of an old . seaport with new buildings. Mr. Raynor asked if he had checked with the Army Corps of Engineers. Mr. Knispel said he had and there is no problem except you can't build a structure into their existing channel. Mr. Coyle asked what depth he planned on having on the basin. Mr. Knispel said he wanted a minimum of eight feet and wanted to maintain 10 .feet throughout. He said he looks at- it as a five year project because the dredging and settling of land would have to take place. The marina would have to be started and some accessory buildings. Mr. Raynor asked if he would be willing to set up a bond for performance on this project. Mr. Knispel said it would depend on the cost. Mr: Lark said if the Commerce Department makes available the funding they could. Mr. Wickham told them the Planning Board can have him bonded for the improvements, for the .performance. Mr. Lark said one of- the things that came up with conversations with the State is that they are going to leave it up to local agencies . Mr: Wickham said the Planning Board required park and play ground in business district as well as in "A" and one thing that we are adamant about is we are not going to give 100% density . 'to anybody'. From now on we are going to say figure 10 - 15% less . Mr. Lark said the property would have an approved sewage and water system. Mr. Wickham said we are particularly concerned with population density. Mr. Lark said they are not going to be permanent . residences. Mr. Wickham said in our plan for development we convert temporary into permanent. As far as we are ,concerned we will not give 100% . Mr. Knispel said he is trying to expand the type of facility as the Anchor Inn. I want to upgrade rather than downgrade. He also said he has talked with architects and land designers and he wants to put playground area required down into the front area so that they don't restrict the view. Mr. Wickham said the ,Board has been trying to acquaint you with the problems involved. In the preamble to our original land use statement we said we believe water front development is usually as important as highway development. Mr. Raynor told them the Board will giant to look at the property. Mr. -Knispel said he would send another copy of the map. Southold Town Planning Board - 23 - January 11, 1973 The Planning Board discussed the Mattituck Shopping Center with Alden Young and Mr. Terry. On motion of Mr. Wickham, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board authorizes Alden Young, P.E . , to check the drainage plans for Mattituck Shopping Center. Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs . Wickham, Raynor, Coyle , Moisa, Grebe. The Planning Board next discussed Sound Crest Wood , Section II with Robert Schroeder. Mr. Schroeder will submit a revised map with one acre lots . Mr. Wickham told Mr. Schroeder if he wanted to wait for about two months the Planning Boag.d would try to get approval on the original map. Mr. Schrodder said he would rather submit one acre lots . Bill Esseks, Esq. , appeared before the Board and presented a revised preliminary map for subdivision for Donald Dennis . He said the road will be put all the way to the property line. Mr. Wickham told him he has to get approval of the Town Superintendent of Highways , the Suffolk County Department of Health and the Suffolk County Department of Environmental Control. Mr. Esseks said he would do that. The Board reviewed the proposed planting plan for Mattituck Shopping Center. On motion of Mr.,. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED the planting plan for Mattituck Shopping Center be approved with the following changes : (1) trees around . Southold Town Planning Board - 24 - January 11, 1973 water tank are to be 26 feet high; and (2) plant a hedge, to be maintained at least 6 feet three inches from the back of Grants store along the cemetery property. . Vote of. the Board: Ayes : Messrs . Coyle, Grebe, Ryr_ Y , Moisa, Wickham. Mr. Wickham said he sent a letter to the Town Board opposing the annexation to Greenport Village. On motion of Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr . Moisa, it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board reaffirm its position, as stated in letter of March 27 , 19720, opposing the proposed Village of Greenport annexation. . Vote of the Board: Ayes-:- Messrs . Raynor, Moisa, Wickham, Grebe, Coyle. On motion of Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED that the next meeting of the Planning Board be held January 17 , 1973, at the Town office, Main Road, Southold, at ' 7 :30 p.m. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Grebe, Raynor, Wickham, Coyle, Moisa. On motion of Mr. Wickham, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED that the following regular meeting of the Planning Board be held February 8 , 1973 , at the Town .Office, Main Road, Southold, at 7 : 30 p.m. Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Wickham, Coyle, Raynor, Moisa, Grebe. Southold Town Planning Board., - 25 - January 11, 1973 The meeting was adjourned at 12 : 45 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Terri Lee Elak,, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board A o n Wickham, Chairman THE COMMITTEE TO SAVE ORIENT POINT PRESENTATION OF"A .PETITION AND__ARGUMEN'TS AGAINST THE LP.ND'S END REALTY A1'P1.TtiAT?ON On behalf of The Committee to Save Orient Point, I would like Lo p�eserY 4' 1y" r_ 300 resident$ of Orient and Eart MPki-I""''- 1-�tp signed by approximately Tz p to the development of the 3545 acres at the Point otn1C that Lanhu,-F:,t F;�ea ��r-jk��' ,��$ Furthermore, I would like to summarize the arviatenLs ti N, ,..�, including a description of the legal grounds on which the Town- BoaYci ca> . l: iably turn down this application. ned strcnJl , pro e;� the plaits The petition reads as follows'. "We, the unde_s3g + ' 35n5 ` ..}s, at or-&—cats submitted by the Land's End Corporation toou�hQ.iWd�sbeg Bratt'QYs s_c 3-c; �3 _• the point; and we also oppose the application n r_ o-� thQ Q" r aa¢:h 48 acres at the Eastern tip of Orient Pairit� W Pe ! T Zc� a applications on grointds provided in Article %IV of t new Town e 'wi ..� t ���eeta "Article XIV guarantees that the Interests of neighboring ighbor{ng peop Sytr� Development- applications are prime consideration where any „� t ;.a ax Lein and' �ts.rg upon Ite Develapme F o s E 1400A states: �In considering a_..' a .. � P TYti saxeray 3nc5 Board shall tare into consideration the public hsa� - ft � deiit4 comfort and convenience of the public sn generaa. 'n3 0% the neighborhood in particular.,, ' z eo " e t,�.re: asked There was a questionnaire appended to the Petition in which P� P{ -r`'`, 5 y� the Ian-, ,> As Of £ ,�aA,. ary for their preference as to the ultimate ciispositiork of rition of the pros: 11 these are the results. 1�7 people favored Town acqui� °. .k, . referred that it be ^luster zc .ed, a 4• ether favored County acquisition, lei p a-� to a._1e_',<.zf;e suggest.'on including possible acqu4 s ��Cn Under the new ;.CLC rT�" P�.... farm lands on a !ease.-back arrangement- OUR ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE APPs,ICATi_C?'1 ARF AS FOLLOWS: ,immediate neighborhood" to mean Orient and East Marion, whr4,;,h.. 'unctions 1, we interpret mm d_ate ne gr oint sr'==:o01 d4 strict, a park d?.str, ^ .o- a.:.=.d r�°zner ous as a viable ^.cmmj;n.ity. It has a j t? Ss n;.i�r rPtation activities and problems in common. The Tovn Board recognized when it responded to an Orient-East Marron meeting at Poquat'-lck ;ia11 'ast '\l?y to L M.,me oppose the creation of a County Park at the Point A300l�peti pat etitions the Y.:,jl'jras': or about 250 people was sufficient to defeat the move. QcPr { from from the same source should be more than sufficient,, tie have hGT tT` f-.a a very direct neighbors in Orient by the Sea and rem Mr. George farm at the Point. 2, We are deeply concerned about the quality and quantity of _ere i3 no our bare r :'° The reliable, comprehensive report on the water situatiOl' r> ^ 'Ps�r 'S-- a' est- old Pirnie Report has been frequently questioned. Besides, !mates or summaries about Orient-East Marion, except to suggest; '.i:as ttee sa.:uation is bad if not dangerous, Furthermore, there seems to be no re-2-crev—,e ac all in the Zoning Ordinance to the overall water problem in Southold Town. The Cow-�ty Healtt. new Z g � erifRc �rei!.s,, w .thout Department grants approvals for Site Developments only on spe le are alained at the reference to the overall water problems of the area. Many peoplewter possibility that the area is becoming o-.aer-dateour eaaterrsarae,toe ��jllaoppose resources. Until the Town can prove to us that sT1i>• uyv all new developments and is ons, . z are concerned also about the impaet on our local school system. of, adOtior., _ ;rr- elopments. It is. true that this particular deve'lopmen.t may add, only a few stuc : .. T.ie must oppose all developments on 'the grounds -that ono quota`or limit has been '_fished by the Town, If this application is approved; it must become a psreceden-' approving any number of similar developments, including the vast Pebble Beach in East Marion involving up to 280 houses, not to mention scores of other pot ,b-divisions of lands now in the hands of real. estate speculators. If, as t?. -laims, this application can not be legally denied, then no other similar ar �J - - can be. legally denied, and we will be ruinecL Ulaestra4� develnixnuut. chaos in our school system and inevitably result in much higher taxes. our scr.:.._.:. --.::: r functions beautifully. How many communities can make that claim?. U1he whole area known as Orient Point is a unique piece of land with geographic," >>.,a historical significance. In its. current state it adds to the beauty and attral.." r- of our whole area.. Under a recent New York State Law, local governments are evq;: t: L,ell to pass laws to preserve and enhance the environment. We feel that any checker-."..c.<::::~R'tig or saturation housing at the Point would be harmful aesthetically and historic•::..:::; -�� our community. It would also be harmful economically to the whole North Fork, aim is to attract tourists who find this part of the world interesting and visit. They don't come out here to Levittown houses -- they come out to .see ' among other famous landmarks. The ,.cutting up and, in .effect, Fencing off, of lands at the Point would make the .:beaches more difficult, robbing. local fishermen of one of their favorite casting areas: More development means more traffic and less sa£ety4 our.ehildren now are ac moot a-,about freely and safely, and crossing the highway with reasonable secu; Eventually this will be impossible •- hence, another danger to "public welfa!:,c G: safety." New York State law recognizes the need to-protect endangered*s Oles of wild *.H ^. ong those species they include the osprey. We all know that saturation hous•:=..-- A. kill off the Osprey. nd we all know that Orient is one of the last refuges o: beautiful bird. It has been contended that excessive restrictions placed on the use of this 11� .: %:hrY,.a•i 'De tantamount to confiscation. First, of all, such a question is notli within tL-_.: -� e of this hearing. Secondly,- it wouWnot result in indirect`,confiscatiori any r Wetlands Ordinance- does -- and that seems to be legal: of :course, confiscat ...:._ ... .:.._ zompensation. New York State is compensating Wetlands owners. Where dompensat':-: . `-J y. eventually come from in this case we don't know. That is a problem that will i. .:.> -c be faced after this application is turned down. 9, According to the County's Town Charter law developments can be required to be SA.�s:ecit with historic patterns," We do not believe that suburban checker-boarding ar.1 housing is in any way consistent with our local "historic patterns" of clust&-C6U WyF,,� ages and open fields and woods. aa: .0, It has been suggested by a few people that the stand taken by this Committee sistent with the stand taken by the community against the County last May. T:= so. Last May we said we did not want a County Park at the Point. Now we are sr.' `.'.:.g Wa don't want a housing development at the point. These are not the only two al' ^es in the world. Our overwhelming first choice` is to find a way to keep it as it ic.. under private or public owndrship. ,r f 3.. 11. The contention has been made that the Town Board does not have the legal right to delly this appl;; gation, providing that all the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance are met.. We' contendn'that the Town Board has every right in the world to deny this application; and, in fact, sho uld be legally obliged to deny it on the grounds that a) the local people strongly object, b) publie welfare and safety will be jeopardized, Opublic comfort and convenience.will be jeopardized, d) wild life may be endangered, e) water resources may be inadequate, f) the school system may be overstrained, g) and the whole community may become less attractive as a rural, rustic, agricultural area. LEGAL GROUNDS FOR DISAPPROVAL INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING: 1. Article XIV of the current Zoning Ordinance, which gives prime consideration to residents of the immediate neighborhood. 2. The Town Law of the State of New -York and the Municipal Home Rule Law of the State of New York empower the town to act to preserve the general welfare and safety of their residents. 3. A new provision in the Municipal Home Rule Law gives a Town or local government the rr.ght to enact legislation to preserve and enhance its physical environment. 4. The County Town Charter provides for development within "historical patterns." 5. A recent decision in the New York State Court of Appeals, involving the Town of Ramapo in Rockland County upheld a. moratorium on all developments in that community. The moratorium was called by the Town, was immediately challenged by the developers and was upheld by the New York State Court of Appeals. The Town was allowed a moratorium of up to 18 years if necessary, to solve its basic problems. Their problems were similar to ours -- water resources, sewerage, community services, rapid growth. In other words, the Town can legally declare a moratorium on developments until it has a chance to study such crucial matters as its water supply. We understand that legal- action is under way In East Hampton now to force a moratorium in that Town. The grounds for upholding a moratorium are that further development might jeopardize the "public health, safety, and welfare.91 In conclusion, we reiterate our stand. We are unalterably opposed to this developrr;-�nt as things now stand. Should it be approved in the face of our local petition and the arguments here set forth, we have no choice but to consider a legal challenge in court. We must consider this possible course of action, because in�making its decision the Town Z Board may be swayed by the threat of legal action from the applicants, .should the appl•'_- cation be denied. Well, legal action is a two-way street. And if one real-estate developer can sue the Town to protect his profit, then certainly 300 concerned citizens can sue the Town to protect their safety and welfare and whole way of life. If, on the :other hand, the decision on this application can be delayed for say sixty or ninety :days, we would welcome such a delay as 'a period in which further inform- ation can be developed and exchanged. We are not opposed, in principle, to more housing, but we must have guidelines and assurances that our community and environment will not be harmed before we can accept any new applications for developments in Orient-East Marion. Members of THE COMMITTEE TO SAVE ORIENT POINT: Charles Webb, William Terry, Ellen DeMaria, Barbara Edeen, Roland Carlsson, E.E. Luce, jr, Robert DeMaria.