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Southold Town Board of Appeals
• �' MAIN ROAD - STATE ROAD 25 SOUTHOLD, L.I., N.Y. 11971
TELEPHONE(516) 765 1809
APPEALS BOARD
MEMBERS
GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, CHAIRMAN
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.
SERGE DOYEN, JR.
ROBERT J. DOUGLASS
JOSEPH H. SAWICKI
M I N U T E S
JULY 26 , 1984
REGULAR MEETING
A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Board of Appeals
was held ori 'Thursday , July 26 , 1984 at 7 :30 o ' clock p .m. at the
Southold Town Hall , Main Road , Southold , New York .
Present were : Gerard P. Goehringer , Chairman ; Serge
Doyen , Jr . ; Charles Grigonis , Jr. ; Robert J . Douglass and
Joseph H . Sawicki , consisting of all. the members . Also
present were Victor Lessard , Building-Department Administrator ,
and approximately 30 , persons in the audience 'at the opening of
the meeting .
The Chairman -opened the meeting at 7 : 30 o ' clock p .m. and
asked Mr. Stanley Corwin , attorney for the Kathrine Farr Matters ,
as her agent , if he would like to .make his presentation concerning
the board ' s decisions , Appeal No . 3117 , Special Exception rendered
July 3 , 1984 and Appeal No . 3118 , Variance rendered June 28 , 1984 .
Mr. Corwin was ready for his presentation , as follows .
r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -2- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
INFORMAL DISCUSSION : Stanley Corwin , Esq . in the matters .of
Appeals . No: 3117 (Special Exception) and No . 3118 (Variance ) .
Decisions Rendered June 28 , 198.4 by the Southold Town Board of
Appeals .
STANLEY CORWIN , ESQ. : : I realize I ' m on rather limited time
this evening., and I guess it ' s going to be my obligation to talk
fast. I had hoped that we might do it a li.ttle differently
and with a little more time , but I often -find myself- with.-the
time that we have . One of-i thb.:reasons:: I ::wanted to "tal k back
and forth across the table was because I felt that I needed
some clarifications with respect to at least one of the condi -
tions . , And that is the one and . it ' s dyed where you. say that
you want to reduce the second-story deck from ten feet to five
feet on one end and frori-'4' 6" to 3 ' 6" on the other. I _'di.dn ' t
know whether by doing that you were saying to me you wanted the
end of the deck parallel with the dock , where it is indicated
on the plan , and move. the building further away from the road
or whether or simply wanted to. limit the size of.-.the decking .
MR. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Limit the size of the decking .
MR . CORWIN : All right. . In that case then , gentlemen , what
I would like you please to reconsider are objections 5., 6 , 8 and
12 . -Objection 5 has to do with a prohibition. against stacking.
I think that the board ' s imposition of that condition is arbitrary
ifc:not.;:,,capr. i,cious . And the reason I say that is because my
neighbor on the left has constantly got boats stacked and the
people.:on the right , we have private .property in single family
residential , have the same situation there . And there ' s _that ...
road in the letter that I indicated to you through Linda , I
said at the very time that I was writing it was , and I photo-
graphs to prove it that it constantly goes on , and I do ' not
think that youare giving us an equal protection . When you say
that I can ' t do it. If you were to say that everybody on that,_..
little strip of water has got to leave . so much channel. and that
you can only go out so far , fine . But you ' re telling me I can ' t
even stack two little canoes . along the side of each other. And
that ' s not right.
Now, Item 6 has to do with no additional dock or mooring-- I
don ' t know whether you ' re aware of it or not. We have an applica-
tion to continue the bulkheading to the very .connection between
M
Southold Town Board of Appeals -3- July 2u , 1984 'Regular Meeting
(.Informal Discussion by S. Corwin Re : K. Farr : )
MR. CORWIN (continued) :
the property and the road , it ' s been approved by the Corps of
Engineers , the Department of Environmental Conservation , and
the Town ; and we certainly don ' t feel that we should come back
to you know to do that when that '.s. b_een approved. The bulkhead-
ing has been approved and the floating dock along side of. it
has already been approved , and .I would like to consider that
in the light of that fact.
Now, with respect to the decking , if you say you make it
smaller, they ' re unhappy about that .. We_ think that there ' s a
safety factor there . Going up those outside steps , a covered
walkway , the front of the building is going to be the entrance ,
to the office part of the building is going to be in the back,
nobody is going to see this p_latfo rm. . For safety reasons to
get furniture and equipment ,i_n and out. We don ' t want to be
confined to th 2 ' 6" around the corner of the buil.ding ' s face ,
and we think that we should be permitted to take it all the
way out to the end of the . bulkhead and leave it the way that
the original plan in_dicates ._it.
Now finally , 12 , is the inside storage business . We went
to court with_ the Planning Board over that. They said , ok , and
we compromised , anal they said up to' 16 ' you ,can store outside .
We ' re not talking about- storage- of big boats there . 40 ' sail
boats and things like that. We ' re talking about storing small
stuff. Some peoplet_.don ' t want to take them out . We don ' t want
to leave them on a. floating dock where they ' re going . to be in
somebody ' s way foritaid: of safety conditions . We think we
ought to be able to haul them out and just lay them on the
ground when somebody' s away for.ione trip--something like that
from time to time .
I hope that you will give this thing reconsideration , 5 ,
6 , 8 and 12 . I would hope that somebody would be persuaded
to suggest that those . conditions be, withdrawn . With respect
to the rest of the application , I thank you for the consideration
that you gave . Please take it from there .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you , Mr. Corwin . We ' ll be in touch some time .
MR. CORWIN : The board' s decision has already been filed with
the Town Clerk , and I ' m wondering dbout the .30-day statute., and
I think that ' s up on the 12th , a.nd _I don ' t want to wait until the
last minute . You take a week . You gave me five minutes . I ' ll
give you five days plus two .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We can ' t do that, sir._ I 'm not going to be
here next week : ( It would be soon thereafter . )
i
s
Southold Town Board of Appeals -4- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3256 :
Upon application of SOUTHOLD EQUITIES , INC . , 195 Youngs Avenue ,
Southold , NY for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance , Article VII ,
Section 100-71 for approval of insufficient area of two proposed lots
which contain existing buildings ; the northerly lot having frontage
along Traveler Street , and the southerly lot having frontage .along
Main Road , in the Hamlet of Southold; .. County Tax Map Parcel
No . 1000-061 -01 -15 . 1 (15 ) .
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7 : 37 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and ap..peal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating this property and the properties in the area. I have
a copy of the survey dated August 17 , 1978, copied from Appeal
File 3145 of 1983, from Roderick VanTuyl , .P . C . indicating the
northerly lot , which contains the old Town Hall building of 24 ,495
sq . ft . , and the south proposed piece which consists of the present
post office , two-story frame house and garage , of ..35 acres , . 356
acres . Mrs . DiMaggio , would you like to be heard in behalf of your
application?
LORETTA DiMAGGIO : I am here to answer any questions you might
ask .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Could you use the mike-- I ' m not sure if .that one
was turned on . *
MRS . DiMAGGIO: Testing--can you hear me?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Yes . Do you have anything specifically you ' d.
like to say before I. ask you some questions?
MRS . DiMAGGIO: I ' m just here to answer any questions you might
have .
MR . CHAIRMAN : All right. In your application you indicated
that you were unable to sell this property ,as one piece . What do
you mean by that?
MRS . DiMAGGGIO: The property goes from Main Street through to
Traveler Street , and the parcel i.s rather large for one buyer.
MR. CHAIRMAN : And it has been on the market for a certain amount
of time?
MRS . DiMAGGIO : Yes . We have a�1gr.eat deal of interest in the
front parcel ; however , the interest for the rear parcel has not been
too phenominal .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -5- July 26 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3256 - SOUTHOLD EQUITIES , continued : )
MR . CHAIRMAN : From this map , you indicate that the -- rather--
how deep does the business zoning go in that area?
MRS . DiMAGGIO : It ' s throughout the entire street as I under-
stand it , from Beckwith to Horton and Traveler to Main Street.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Will there ever come a time when, you would ask
for a division where the present post office building is from the
house and the garage area , or do you intend to sell that as one
parcel ?
MRS . DiMAGGIO: No . I intend to sell it as one parcel . It
wouldn ' t lend itself to that position . The post office area would
be too confined.
MR. CHAIRMAN : On the right-of-way situation , it appears that
that present driveway which was used as ingress and egress to both
the post office and to the dwelling . It appears to be shared with
the next door neighbor. Is that correct?
MRS . DiMAGGIO: Yes . It ' s shared with , I believe Edson is
still the owner of the property adjacent to us . It gives him
access to his limited parking area in the rear .
MR. CHAIRMAN : In the rear . Oh that ' s directly in back of his
building then on that .
MRS . DiMAGGIO : Right.
MR. CHAIRMAN : ' We had originally had an application , I believe ,
that you had brought in last year concerning the .old town hall
building . Nothing ever became of that , I assume?
MRS . DiMAGGIO: No . We had the use--it had been granted. We
are still talking to our tenant; however , his presentation as to
financial ability has not yet suited me . We need a little more
indication that he will indeed perform as we require . .
MR . CHAIRMAN : I thank you very much .
MRS . DiMAGGIO : You ' re welcome . Thank you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is .there anybody else that would like to be heard
in behalf of this application? Anybody like to. speak.. against the
application? (No one.) . Questions from board members? (None ) . Is
there anything else you would like to say before I close this hearing?
MRS . DiMAGGIO: No .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I did not read the handwritten part of the applica-
tion . I don ' t know if you wanted me to .
' Southold Town Board Appeals -6- July 26 , B4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3256 - SOUTHOLD EQUITIES, continued : )
MRS . DiMAGGIO : I don ' t know if -- if I ' m sort of out of line ,
please stop me . I don ' t want to take anybody ' s time . But we
lost three sales on the front half of this property because we
cannot subdivide ; and I would like the opportunity to sell it , so
a subdivision would certainly help it . And that ' s all I add to it.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Just quickly , you presently have a C/O on the
post office building?
MRS . DiMAGGIO: Yes , I do .
MR. CHAIRMAN : A C/O on--
MRS . DiMAGGIO : I believe it was prior to a :.C/0 being required.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok. A Certificate of Use you would call it--
MRS . DiMAGGIO: Yeah , it dates back to 1850 , I think. So I
don ' t know that we have a C of 0 , but I know .that when I bought it ,
he said all the papers were in order and I ' m sure they were .
MR . CHAIRMAN : And you had one on the one-family dwelling?
MRS . DiMAGGIO : I think that also was . in existence prior to the
time a CO was--
MR. CHAIRMAN : Did you get one on the old town hall when you
moved it there?
MRS : DiMAGGIO: Yes'.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok. Thank you . Hearing no further questions , I ' ll
make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later .
MEMBER DOUGLASS : Second .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , to close the hearing and reserve decision in the
matter of the application of 'SOUTHOLD 'EQUITIES , Appeal No . 3256
until later.
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -7- July 2b , 1984 Regular Meeting
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3261 . Upon application of JOHN
SIMICICH , by Charles R. Cuddy , Esq . , 108 East Main Street, Riverhead ,
NY for Variances to : (a ) the Zoning. Ordinance , Article III , Sec-
tion 100-31 , Bulk Schedule , for approval of insufficient area and
width of parcel in this proposed two-lot subdivision , (b ) New York
Town Law , Section 280-A for approval of access over a private
right-of-way known as - "Camp Mineola Road" extending northerly from
Kraus Road . Location of Property : West Side of Camp Mineola Road ,
Mattituck ; County Tax Map Parcel No . 1000-122-05-3 . 3 .
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7 :46 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and appeal application .
MR . CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating this property and the surrounding area , and a copy of
a survey indicating Parcel 2A which has an existing dwelling and
which I assume is the applicant` s property of 81 ,691 sq . ft . , and
the parcel in question to be divided ' .(set-off) ,. 2B of 72 ,797 sq . ft.
with road frontage on Camp Mineola -Road approximately 111 feet . Mr .
Cuddy , would you like to be heard in behalf of your application?
CHARLES R. CUDDY , ESQ . : Charles Cuddy . I appear on behalf of
the applicant . As indicated by the survey before the board, this is
96% the area that you require . if we divide this parcel into two lots .
The application also in addition to frontage , the applicant seeks a
280A variance because we ' re on a private road. That road is Camp
Mineola Road 25 ' in width . Mr . Simicich now goes to his residence
over that road . It ' s improved to a degree., , and certainly the
applicant and the new owner of the property , the person whom it is
to be sold , can use the same road . This area , and I take:.it that
the Tax Map that you have is part of the record , is that correct ,
Mr. Chairman?
Chairman nodded affirmatively .
MR . CUDDY : This area is basically one acre lots , some of them
are smaller , there are a few perhaps below one acre . But certainly
the character of the area, will not be changed in any sense of the.
granting of this application , therefore , we ' ask..that the board
approve the application as submitted .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Is there anybody else that would like
to speak in behalf of this application? Anybody like to speak
against the application? Questions from board members? (None ) Mr.
Cuddy , we had a physical inspection of this property last week ; upon
doing that inspection , _I ' 11 be honest with you , it 's probably one of
the rights-of-way that we felt no improvements have to be made . It
appears that atone time it .was probably a blacktopped..right-of-way ,
appears to be fairly well blacktopped even though there are areas of
it that probably could use resurfacing . It probably exceeds the stan-
dards that we require .for private roads at this time . Any approval of
this board would indicate that the right-of-way would have to be kept
in somewhat of a similar fashion , which I would assume both neighbors
would want to do anyway . So bearing that in .mind , I ' ll make a .motion
i
Southold Town Board of Appeals -8- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3261 - JOHN SIMICICH , continued : )
approving this as applied for.
MEMBER GRIGONIS : Second.
The board made the following findings and determination :
By this appeal , applicant seeks : (a ) a Variance to the Zoning
Ordinance , Article III , Section 100-.31 , for approval of Pa cel 2B of
72 ,797 sq . - ft . in area and 111 . 0 feet in lot _width .along "Camp Mineola
Road , " leaving Parcel 2A of .8'1 ,691 sq . ft . and 229 . 0.7 lot width ; and
(b ) a Variance pursuant to New York Town Law , Section 280-A for
approval of access over a private right-of-way known as "Camp Mineola
Road" extending northerly from Kraus Road a length of approximately
430 feet and a legal width of 25 feet.
Having personally examined the premises and the right-of-way in
question , the board members agree with the reasoning of the applicant
in that many of the parcels in the area of substantially smaller than
that proposed by this application and that the relief. requested is
not substantial since the parcel meets 90% of the. required lot area
and approximately 65% of the lot width of the zoning ordinance .
For the record it is noted that Parcel 2B is vacant , and Parcel 2A
contains a one-family , 12-story framed dwelling , accessory storage
garage which will beset back 30 feet from .the division line proposed ,
and two small accessory shed buildings.. A 122-foot strip is shown
on the survey map as amended April 24 , 1984 for reservation "for
possible future construction of a. Town highway. " The right-of-way
in question has an excellent macadam surface for a minimum width of 15 feet
and is very satisfactory .for accessibility by emergency and other vehicles .
For the record it- is also noted that the property in question has
been the subject of a prior Appeal , No . 2112 for the applicant herein ,
which granted a Conditional Approval of Access on April ,29 , 1976 .
Addition.aTly , this project... has... been. unfavorably acted .upon by the
Planning Board at its May 21 , 1984 meeting , d_ue to insufficient area .
In considering this appeal , the board has determined : (a ) that the
relief re uested is not substantial in relation of the zoning requirements
( 10%) ; that by granting of .the relief requested , the character of
the neighborhood will- not be adversely affected or changed; (c ) that by
allowing the variance , no substa.nti.al_.. detriment to adjoining properties
would be created ; (d) no adverse effects will be produced on available
gov_ernment.al fac.ili.t'ies if the variance is allowed ; (e ) that the
interests of .just_ice will be served. by allowing the variance , as noted
below.
Accordingly , on motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr .
Grigonis , it was,__
ti Southold Town Board of Appeals - 9- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3261 - JONN. SIMICICH, continued : )
RESOLVED , that Appeal No . 3261 , application for JOHN SIMICICH
for approval of access and for approval . o.f lot area of 72 , 797 ' sq . ft .
and lot width of 111 . 0 feet ; BE AND 'HEREBY IS APPROVED AS APPLIED .
Location of Property : West Side of " Camp Mineola Road , " Mattituck ,
NY ; County Tax Map Parcel No . 1000-122-05=3 . 3 .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Doyen , Grigonis ,
Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution wa_s adopted by unanimous vote
of all the members .
.PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3217 . Application of 'JOSEPH 'WANAT,
by A .A . Wickham , 'Esq . , 'Main Road, Mattituck , NY for a Variance tot e
Zoning Ordinance , A_r-ticle III , Section, 100=.31 , Bu1k Schedule , for
approval of .insuffi,cient width of parcel to b_e set-off .1ocated at the
north side of. Be_rgen Avenue , Mattituck ,__ 'NY ; County Tax_ Map Parcel No .
1000.-112-01 -01.6 .
The Chairman opened the hearing at. 7 : 50 .p .m. and read the legal
notice of .this hearing in its entirety and appeal application . ._
MR. C.HA.IRMAN : We have a copy of ,the Suffolk County. Tax Map
and map_ showi`ng -the two other lots applicant is referring - to , `along
with his farm.:. I have a copy of the _dated map from...Young & Young .
,_updated on November 28 , 1983 . The parcel indicated .is approximately
150 . 23 feet by 323 . 64 feet , irregul.ar'ly . Is there somebody that would
like to be heard in behalf of this ap_pl.ication? '(No one appeared) .
_Anybody like to speak against the app_1_ication?
MARK McD.ONALD : I don ' t. really want to speak against it but I
do want to' say there are some things that have concern to me . My
__name is Mark McDonald and I and Pat Carrig are the present owners
of .the Malm-- I.'m. sure you know; -you just .had a 280A on that . This
action , on his part , I guess , will require a 280A; and we would like
to be assured that he be co-responsible for the right-of-way'._for_ the
full length of the road with ourselves . We don ' t. fee1 that. we should
.hav_e to. bear _the whole burden if he ' s. going to use the road at the'_--
same time . I just wanted to make that_ point . I noticed in our
copy of .the fi,_nal resolution from this board. that . it specified
that you ' re .anti_cipati_ng this. action 'by him, and I assume .you ' re
aware of .it. But I wanted to . come down and make sure that_youu are
aware of .it. That ' s all I have to say .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Mr. . McDonald. I did receive. a letter from Miss
Wickham,. and she asked us , for an extension because of the vacation
that she had . .planned , and she ' s. unable to make it tonight . . But I
assume , I have not spoken to the board members about this , but we
Southold Town Board of Appeals -10- juiy 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3217 JOSEPH WANAT, continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN (continued : )
usually grant one extension , so .we will be extending this hearing .
I ' m not closing it as I did the other two . Until the second meeting
in September . So I would ask you possibly at that time to come down
and reiterate what you have said . It is a part of the record tonight ,
but possibly Miss Wickham , you know, would want to be aware of what
you just said . Ok? Hearing no further comments , I ' ll ask the board
if they ' ll grant Miss Wickham an extension to the second meeting in
September. We ' re recessing it until the second meeting in September .
MEMBER GRIGONIS : I ' ll make the motion . s
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr . Grigonis made the motion . I ' ll second it.
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr. Grigonis , it was
RESOLVED, to recess the matter of JOSEPH WANAT, Appeal No .
3217 , until the second Regular Meeting in September , 1984 .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No . 3206 . HENRY P . SMITH . (This
hearing was recessed at the June 21 , ` 1984 hearing until tonight . )
The. ChaArmah-reconvened the hearing of HENRY P . SMITH at 7 : 56
p . m. , and asked the audience if .,there was anyone present that would
like to be heard . (No one was present to be heard. )
Philip J . Ofrias , Esq . , attorney for the applicant , called
the office this afternoon. requested _for a recess for approximately
one month .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We will also be granting Mr . Ofrias an exten-
sion , also to the second meeting J.n.:September . '. The Regular Meeting
in September. So I ' ll make the. mo.tion .
On motion by Mr . Grigonis , seconded by Mr . Grigonis , it was
RESOLVED, to recess the matter of HENRY P . SMITH , Appeal No .
3206 , until the latter September Regular Meeti._ng 1984 .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resol:.ution was unanimously
adopted by all the -members .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -11 - July 2b , 1984 Regular Meeting
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3260 : Upon application of JOHN
GIANNARIS AND OTHERS , by D. Kapell , 400 Front Street , Greenport ,
NY for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance , Article XI , Section
100-112 (H) for permission to use adjacent easterly premises of the
Village of Greenport of . 765 acreage for parking accessory to the
snack bar use existing on the parcel presently owned by the appli -
cants also located at the-.north side of Main Road , East Marion ;
County Tax Map Parcel No . 1000=35-2-14 and No . 1000-35-2-15. 1 ;
see Site Plan revised 5/4/84 and 5/30/84.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8 : 00 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and appeal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of a County Tax Map indicating
this property and the surrounding property in the area; and I have
a copy of a site plan dated August 26 , 1983 prepared by Kontokosta
Associates indicating the proposed location on this piece of
property . Mr . Kapell , would you like to be heard in behalf of
this application?
DAVID KAPELL : David Kapell , Real Estate Broker in Greenport.
We ' re hear to ask you for permission to construct a lot as you
recited in the application . We have an approved site plan from
the Planning Board with a parking area provided on the. property
for 20 cars which is the required parking for the proposed expan-
sion of the restaurant . Subsequent to the approval of that
site plan , Mr . Gianarris was able to successfully negotiate
with the Village to lease this adjacent parcel,; and it ' s his
feeling , and also it ' s the Village of Greenport ' s feeling that
having a parking lot on this adjacent piece would be _a much more
suitable and safe mechanism for alleviating the.. parking as which
currently exists in front of. this side along the highway than to
stick to the 20 cars on the Hellenic property . Essentially , the
new parking will allow us to provide a parking lot that '.s. aamost
three times , or 58 spaces , as compared to 20 spaces that ' s required
and approved. As I understand it from the zoning ordinance , your
approval is required to do this , and we would appreciate it very
much . We feel that we have a dangerous situation in frontubf the
restaurant that this application would allow us to alleviate it
in the most effective manner .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Mr . Kapell , have there been any changes on
the ingress and egress on this.- site plan?
MR. KAPELL : As compared with the Planning Board ' s?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. KAPELL : Yes . There has been .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Would you point that out for us please?
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -12- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3260 - JOHN GIANNARIS AND OTHERS , continued : )
MR. KAPELL : Yes , sure . The Planning Board approved a plan that
called for the entering of cars along side the existing restaurant ,
and into the proposed parking area behind the restaurant , and then
exiting through the existing driveway on the property to a curb cut
on the easterly-excuse me , on the westerly end , ok , so that you ' d
have basically a one-way flow of traffic through the property .
Inasmuch as this new parking area eliminates this whole flow of
parking in and out of the Hellenic Property , per se , we are request-
ing , not only of you but of the Planning Board as well , in a request
for a site plan revision that we be allowed to come in and out
of the restaurant . Part of the site plan approval required and we
agreed to eliminate parking that currently exists in front of the
restaurant . In other words , there will no longer be any parking
whatsoever in front of the restaurant , and that should give us the
room to come in and out safely then . That ' s what we would like to do .
MR . CHAIRMAN : What do you suggest we do at this particular
time , and when are you going back to the Planning Board with this?
MR. KAPELL : We have an appointment for Monday night , the
Planning Board. The application has been filed . And maybe if ,
barring other concerns on your part , perhaps you can approve this
request subject to the amendments of the site .plan of the Planning
Board insofar as the egress and ingress is concerned .
MR . CHAIRMAN : I don ' t know if we can do that .
MR. KAPELL : Let me say this . We will comply with the Planning
Board ' s requirement submitted in the original site plan application .
They asked that we do it that way .
MR. CHAIRMAN : You ' ll comply with that. You jsut want to see
if they would--
MR . KAPELL : We would like to see if they would agree with this ,
if not , we ' re going to comply . All right? So one way or the other ,
we attempt to comply. It ' s definitely our desire and intention to
alleviate the condition that exists there , and in no way to exacerbate
it .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you have another copy of the--
MR. KAPELL : The original site plan?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Could we have a couple of those .
MR . KAPELL : Yes . It shows right on here what ' s egress on this
end , after this parking area , and an ingress through here .
MR . CHAIRMAN : That ' s what was approved. And this is what you ' re
going to be asking for.
MR. KAPELL : This is what we ' re asking for , and we presented this
exact same plan to the Planning Board; however , we will comply with
whatever requirements they make . Twenty spaces is simply not suffi -
cient and this is important to us .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals .13- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3260 - JOHN GIANNARIS AND OTHERS, continued : )
SECRETARY ,- TO CHAIRMAN : We ' ll need extras of the amended site plan--
the County Planning Commission requires--
MR . CHAIRMAN : Oh , I ' m sorry .
MR. KAPELL : I ' ll leave you this one here .
MR . CHAIRMAN: That ' s one .
MR. KAPELL : Yes , and I ' ll bring in more .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Why don ' t you take one of these back and then I ' ll
keep one .
MR. KAPELL : Ok . Are there any other questions?
MR . CHAIRMAN : No , we ' ll see what the public would like to say
about this , and then I ' ll probably close the hearing pending compliance
with the Planning Board or something of that nature so in case we do
run over that 60 day period , which we ' d rather not do--in other words
we ' re going to wait and see what happens Monday night . There ' s no-
need to deny it and then have you come back again or whatever the case
might be . All right?
MR . CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much . Is there anybody else that
would like to speak in favor of this application? Yes , Ruth?
RUTH OLIVA: I just want to say .for the residents of East Marion
and Orient , I think they would be delighted to get that parking from
the front of Hellenic and off to the side and it ' s entirely up to you ,
this whole thing--that and Skipper ' s , it ' s terrible .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Would anybody else like to speak in
behalf of the application? Would anybody like to speak against the
application? Questions from board members? (None ) Hearing no further
questions , I ' ll make a motion closing the hearing pending compliance
with the Planning Board -- excuse me , Mr. Douglass? .
MEMBER DOUGLASS: How long a lease do they have with the Village?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Could you furnish us a copy of the lease agreement
for the file , please?
MR. KAPELL : Yes .
MR . CHAIRMAN : When you bring in that other copy for us , please .
Again , pending compliance with the Planning Board on the site plan on
the egress and ingress .
MEMBER DOUGLASS: Second.
Southold Town Board . Appeals -14- Judy _5 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3260 - JOHN GIANNARIS AND OTHERS , continued : )
O'n motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr. Douglass , it was
RESOLVED, to close the hearing pending compliance with the Planning
Board on the egress and—ingress- on the amended site plan and receipt of
the parking lease agreement between the applicant and the Village of
Greenport.
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously .
adopted by all the members .
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3258 : Application of VINCENT GRIFFO
by I . L . Pri.ce ,...Es,.q,. , 8.28 Front Street , Greenport , NY for a Variance
to the Zoning, Ordi'nan.ce , Article .III , Section 100-3.2 for permission
to construct" tenn'i s 'court and .pavi l'l ion, both accessory to- -a proposed
one-story dwelling and bo,th - access_ory buildings to be located in an
area other th,an. .the, required rearyard , at premises known as 3765
Robinson Road (west 'si.de of Bridge or Briar Lane ) , Paradise .Point
Lot..-12SubdivisioLot..-12and part of parcel known as County Tax Map 1000-
81 -1 -16 . 1 .
The Chairman. opened the hearing at 8 : 10 .p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and appeal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating this and surrounding properties in the area , and I have
a copy of a survey by Donack Associates dated April 12 , 19845
indicating a proposed one- family dwelling on this parcel app'roxi -
ma.tely 35 . feet from the road , . of 35 ' by 55 ' , a pavill .ion , adjacent
to the- tennis court , 43 feet from the road of approximately 12 ' by
20 ' , and a pro_p.ose.d tennis. court of 55 ' by 110 ' . w.ith_ approximate
sideyards of .f'i.ve on the east side an.d 10 on the west, 'side . I_s .there
anybody that would like to be heard in behalf of this application?
I:s Mr . Price available ? (Not present ) . Is Mr. Griffo available?
(Not present ) Is there anybody else that would like to speak in
behalf of the application?_ (No one ) Is there anybody in the
audience. that would. like to speak against the application? Sir?
EDWARD BOYD V: Mr . Chairman , Gentlemen of the Board . My name
is Edward Boyd. of,. Southold". ' ,-..I . repr:esent Paradise ,,Point Association ,
Inc . , which is the property owners .association of ,Paradise Point .
I have been specifi.cal.ly charged by' 'that group to _come . and oppose
the Griffo application.... The reasons for the opposition are several .
I would .like ,to begin by making you gentlemen .aware of the fact
that .Mr ._. Griffo is a contract vendee on this property and is not
the owner 'of_ the property . He , of course , has the right to come
before this board in the. position. of contract vendee , but the contract
that he has in this particular case is a contingency contract , one
that is dependent upon securing approval of the Board of Appeals for
Southold Town Board of Appeals 15- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No.,. 3258 - VINCENT GRIFFO, continued : )
MR. BOYD (continued) :
what he plans to do , and secondly , one that requires approval of the
Paradise Point Association for what Mr . Griffo plans to do . Paradise
.Point as you may or may not know is made up of l.ots all having in
common a chain of title from Frank Robinson . The deeds that go to
the property owners on Paradise Point contain covenants and restric-
tions . The covenants and restrictions are to be violated quite
severely by the plan that is in . front of you gentlemen . The first
covenant and restrict that I would like to point out to you is the
fact that the lot usage allowed provides for a single , one-family
house and a single garage.. Those are the only structures that are
allowed . The second covenant and restriction and perhaps one that
is even more important perserving the water on Paradise Point , ,.which
is a relatively narrow piece of land , requires a 20-foot setback
from all property lines for any structure built upon apiece of
property . In this particular case as you can see from the plan in
front of you , the applicant is proposing considerably less than 20
feet for not only the house but .for the tennis court . The tennis
court if I remember correctly is something like 55 ' by 110 feet; and
I calculated that out quickly , that ' s 6 ,050 sq . ft . Now, gentlemen ,
I don ' t know exactly the .:square footage of the lot involved here , the
Donack survey that. you have doesn ' t seem to have either a scale or
a square footage , but I believe most of the lots on that particular
side of the road are something in the neighborhood of a half acre .
We have here an attempt to cram approximately 8 ,215 sq . ft. of usage
into that half acre . ' You got a tennis court , a pavillion , a house
that ' s just on the first floor alone almost 2 ,000 sq . ft. There ' s
another problem which I ' ve come across . I ' m not sure that the lot
as it ' s described on that Donack survey is one that has been approved
by either the Zoning Board or the Planning Board in Southold Town .
It seems that the maps that I have had access trochee that triangular
shape piece .that you have , cut about 100 feet off the apex of the
top northerly part 'of it , which would. further decrease the square
footage that ' s available. Mr. Griffo , the applicant , is well aware
of these requirements that lie receive approval from both the Town
of Southold and -the Paradise Point Association before he drew any
construction on this. property ; and I wish to assure you gentlemen
that Paradise Point Association is very much in opposition to this
particular plan for land usage . If there are any questions further
concerning the opposition , I ' ll be happy to answer them.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Since we are at distinct disadvantage at this
particular time not having either the applicant or his attorney
present_, let me just ask a question which I would have asked anyway .
Do you have anybody else in the audience that intends to speak .
against this application?
MR. BOYD: No . I am representing the property owners ' association .
There are 19 or 20 families that own property completely surrounding
r this , and they held a. m_eeting , annual meeting , special meeting last
Sunday . This matter was raised and at that time , I was directed to
Southold Town Board of Appeals -16- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3258 - VINCENT GRIFFO , continued : )
MR. BOYD (continued) :
come here and voice the opposition on behalf of the association .
Certainly if it were a question of counting heads and numbers or
anything like that, we would bring them down . But this time , that
has not been done .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well , we appreciate that very much , Mr . Boyd.
I think at this particular time we ' re going to have to caucus and
discuss what we intend to do with this application . I will probably
suggest to the board that we write a letter to Mr . Griffo' s attorney
asking him why no one has been present at this hearing , and as you
have seen tonight and usually we grant one recess . . It ' s rather
strangethat we have heard nothing. from the applicant or his attorney .
And we ' ll see how we will deal with it .
MR. B.OYD: If I may take another 30 seconds of your time , please ,
there is one other matter regarding the application ._ On Paradise
Point there is a building committee . This is part of the covenants
and restrictions that I mentioned earlier that had pertained to the
deeds . The plans for any structures to be erected on the Point must
be submitted to this committee and must be approved. An initial
submission was made to the building committee in May , late May of
this year. It was the same plot plan that you gentlemen have in
. front of you . The Chairman of the building committee wrote back
to Mr. Griffo ' s attorney at that time , Mr . William Price was repre-
senting him, and. r.equested elevations , something th.at they actually
could look at to see what the buildings were going to appear to .be
when. they were constructed. We h.ave received nothing back to that
regard. That is something of course that the Association has required
before . it gave i.ts approval . Thank you , gentlemen .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you , Mr . Boyd. Do you want to go into a
caucus..on,.this?
MEMBER SAWICKI : I think we should go into a caucus .
On ..motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Sawicki ; it was
RESOLVED, to recess temporarily for approximately three minutes
for the purpose of .either a further recess or close of this hearing.
Vote of the. Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by _.all the members . _
The board members left the room to caucus , and then returned at
8 : 31 p .m.
On motion by Mr. Sawicki , seconded by Mr . Grigonis , it was .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -17- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3258 - VINCENT GRIFFO, continued : )
RESOLVED , to reconvene the hearing of Appeal No . 3258 , matter
of VINCENT GRIFFO .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mrs.:-Boyd-.; was;.there anything else you would like
to . say concerning this?
MR. BOYD : I don 't think so , Mr. Chairman , because I ' m suffering
fromt he same disadvantage that you are with no opposition . Can ' t
say too much .
MR . .CHAIRMAN : We have unanimously suggested that we are going
to close this hearing , and so therefore start the 60-day process .
So bearing that in mind , I ' ll make a motion closing the hearing and
reserving decision until later. Thank you very much for coming in .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by . Mr . Douglass , it was
RESOLVED, to close the hearing and reserve decision in the
matter of the application of VINCENT GRIFFO , Appeal No . 3258 .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No . 3259. Application of NICHOLAS ALIANO ,
3800 Duck Pond Road , Cutchogue , NY for a Special Exception to the
Zoning Ordinance-, Article VI , Section 100-60 (B)._[l ] (b ) , Article V ,
Section .100-50 (B ) [4] , for permission to establish and build four
two-story motel buildings containing 10 motel units for transient
use , and an office building of 2 , 500 sq. ft . in area on this 3. 721
acre parcel located on the South Side of Main Road , Greenport , NY .
Zoning District : B-Light Business . County Tax Map Parcel No.
1000-46-01 -002 . 1 .
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8 : 34 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and appeal application :
MR . CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating the area , and a copy in the file indicating a proposed
2 ,500 sq . ft. office building approximately 41 feet from Main
State Highway , parking therefore in back of that , concrete walk ,
and then the proposed construction of four two-story motel buildings
of 10 units each--average height of approximately 20 feet , 40-foot
distance in between on a map prepared by Roderick VanTuyl , P . C . on
July 28 , 1983 , total area 3 . 721 acres , amended on June 14 , 1984 .
Ok .. Mr . Aliano , would you like to be heard in behalf of your ap.plication?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -18- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3259 - NICHOLAS ALIANO , continued : )
NICHOLAS ALIANO: I have really. nothing to say except I ' m here to
answer any questions . I gave. my reasons in the application . I 'm
just here to answer any questions .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you have layout on what the motel units would
look like?
MR. ALIANO: No .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Has this site plan been approved by the Planning
Board?
MR. ALIANO: I really can ' t answer that honestly . They directed
me here .. They had some questions which was cleared up with the Planning
Board , which I cleared up , and with the Building Department; and the
Planning Board directed me here .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Victor , can you shed some light on this for us?
BUILDING ADMINISTRATOR LESSARD: Am. .I..r. ight._.,in�.saying that ' s
a B-1 Zone?
MR . CHAIRMAN : B=Light.
MR. LESSARD: Yeah , I think that ' s probably what tt 's :in .
MR. CHAIRMAN : The reason why I asked you that,_ Mr, . Aliano , is
because we do run into a .problem approving anything prior to the
actual approved Site Plan of the Planning Board.
MR. ALIANO: ' I 'm satisfied if you tell me it ' s subject to you
seeing a completed product, but I don ' t want to spend thousands of
dollars and have you say , "Well , now we don ' t want it . " I think
if you know the Beachcomber Motel , and those improvements , I know
how to build. But I don ' t want to spend a fortune and then find
out the idea is--you don ' t like that idea . . That ' s your perogative .
I can guarantee that I ' ll work with the Town as far as the design .
It ' s going to be colonial in my mind , a colonial -style that will
fit in with the area . I. want to. do something nice because there ' ll
be a big expense .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Is there any timeliness involved in this? Do
you intend to build this project--
MR . ALIANO: Well I wanted to break ground right after the
summer , you know. The carpenters are ready to come to work when
they' re not so busy . That ' s what I have in mind .
MR. CHAIRMAN: When was the last correspondence you had with
the Planning. Board?
MR. ALIANO: A week ago .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -19- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3259 - NICHOLAS ALIANO , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Are you on for any other future meetings?
MR. ALIANO : Everything is cleared up .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Everything is cleared up?
MR. ALIANO: Yup . There ' s. no objection to anything that I know
of. And none with the Building Department that I _know of. And none
with the Planning Board that I._ know_ of . , I can ' t conceive of any .
That ' s why , you know, I ' m. here .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Excuse me one minute.. Victor , do you know if
this has been certified by the Building Department?
MR. LESSARD: They have to get the Special Exception from you
people , , that ' s what th_e law requires because i.f you don ' t.. It ' s
permitted in that zone provided you people grant. them a Special
Exception . And he ' s in the process of trying to get that out of
the way . Then he can say yes or noj s,:how the PLanning. Board is
going to go on from there . You can ' t approve a _ site plan on
someting` that he hasn ' t got the Special Exception for , and this is
what you people got to do .
MR . CHAIRMAN : But you know, and I ' m sorry to carry on this
discourse ,. but this is the normal process that we use . ..- You know
i.f . : it ' s the Planning. Board attempt for some reason to eliminate
one unit , change the conformity of the unit, change anything that
we have in front of us , this man has to come before us again., ok?
MR. LESSARD. Well I think what he ' s af.ter. : is to get the
Special Exception from- you people to say that he can do this in
the first place . Ok? Not how many units he ' s going to have there .
That ' ll be under the requirement of the Planning Board and the
Build._ing Department. The design of the building and whatnot isn ' t
what we ' re talking about . We ' re talking about , yes , can he put
motels in that. B-Zone by Special Exception as ' the law requires ,
or no , he ` can ' t do it . If you .say no , that kills the whole thing
right there .
MR . ALIANO : There ' s no point going any further with it .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I can understand that. I ' m only concerned
about the fact that if .there are any changes on anything that we
might grant--
MR. ALIANO : Well , we have no chagnes as far as the layout of
the building . As far- as the structure and what ' s in the building
we ' re perfectly willing , because I want to make it "A-number 1 "
anyway' to. take it up w_ith':the. Building Department before I even
go, ahead with complete details .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well , I have to admit to you , Mr . Aliano , that
T I should have met with the Chairman of .the Planning Board along with
Southold Town Board of App.eals -20- July 26 , 1-984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3259 - NICHOLAS ALIANO, continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN (c.ontinued : )
the Planning Consultant that we have at this particular time . However ,
but because of vacations of other people and other things ,
MR. ALIANO: But this has been two years with the Planning Board--and--
MR. CHAIRMAN : I understand .
MR. ALIANO: The big problem is always sewage , water , ok . That
took me four or five months to get tha.t. ... And then it was postponed
because of last year ' s vacation..
MR. CHAIRMAN : I ' m not blaming it on vacation . I' m telling you
that the problem basically here is that I have not corresponded. with
the Chairman of the Planning Board to find out if th-is is the type of
conformity at least if they are going to be dealing with the Site
Plan that they ' re -going to approve. I ' m talking about the layout .
The way the buildings are laid out .
MR . ALIANO : I don ' t think the Planning Board would send me here
if they weren ' t satisfied , do you? The Planning Board . is the one
that sent me here . They ' re the ones that said , we had to have the
surveyor , VanTuyl , be a little more distinct as. to the separation
of the building , that was the objection . I went .to VanTuyl and I
had that done . Then they said , ok , now you take it to the Zoning
Board . That ' s what I ' m telling you .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Well , the only thing that .I can say that I ' m
going to propose to my board is that , . and because of the lack of
correspondence from the.-,Planning Board on this particular applica-
tion , that you give us _appropriate time to sit down with them and
discuss anything that might transpire , and this is basically for
your benefit , too , Mr. ALiano , because if they ' re any changes , you ' re
just going to have to come back before this board again . And I ' m .
not talking about any great length of time , you know , a couple of
weeks , so .
MR . ALIANO: Will you be able to straighten it out with the
Planning Board and then give me a determination without meAaving
to have another hearing and so forth?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well , we ' re just going to extend . the hearing .
But W6`tan close it at the next Rggular meeting . You don ' t even
have to come if you don ' t want to . Ok?
MR. ALIANO: I ' ll know where I stand?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes . Yes . At :that particular period , ok?
MR. ALIANO : Ok . I don ' t want to be penalized because, you
know , ' the Planning Board didn ' t get together with you , or you didn ' t
Southold Town Board of Appeals -21 - July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3259 - NICHOLAS ALIANO, continued : )
MR. ALIANO (continued) :
get together with them as far as time is concerned .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We usually have correspondence from the Planning
Board. At this particular time we have nothing from them concerning
this application . And if I were to close this hearing , there was
nothing I could get from them, ok , th..en we would have to deny the
application and have you come back, therefore , allowing them to put
input into this application . And. that ' s what I want to alleviate
because it ' ll .c.ost you money , everyone ' s time , and so on and so forth .
MR . .ALIANO : Well , you do what you have to do .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . Well , I ' ll go through the public and see if
there ' s any, o.pposition . Is there anybody that would like to speak
in behalf of this application?
RUTH OLIVA: Can I just ask a question? First of all , does
Mr . Aliano have permission from Greenport for the water and sewage?
MR . ALIANO: I have it in writing from Mr. Monsell .
MRS OLIVA: And one other question . Who is it that will decide
how many units per acre he will be allowed , this board or the Planning
Board?
MR. ALIANO: The book . The book calls for it . The book reads
how many is allowed based on having water and sewage .
MRS . OLIVA: 6 . 7 units per acre on .four acres does not give
40 units .
MR. ALIANO: No , that ' s if you don ' t have water and sewage . If
you don ' t have water and sewage ,. 18 units .
MRS . OLIVA: That ' s 4 . 2 4. 2 . Southold Town . Am I right , 4 . 2
without water and sewage , and 6 . 7 with water and sewage , units per
acre in multiple? .
. MR . ALIANO : This is not multiple .
MR. LESSARD: I ' m sure the building , department will see to-.;.that--
MR. ALIANO: I have a l.etter' from the. Building Department that
they checked it out and it does afford 40 unit_s .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Could I have a copy of that , Mr. Al.iano?
That ' s an original .
SECRETARY : We have that in the file .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have that . I apologize.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -22 July 26 ," 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3259 - NICHOLAS ALIANO , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : All right. This was the purpose of my suggestion
of sitting down with the Planning Board and this is the reason why
I ' m with this issue , ..ok : rather. than closing the hearing at this
particular time .
MRS . OLIVA: It ' s not that I ' m for or against it , I just had
a couple of points .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes . This is what' we will address and I ' ll say,
this is what the Planning Board had suggested., we have a letter that
says please disregard , and I want to go over that with them, ok .
Is there anybody else to speak in faVor .of the application? . Anybody
against the application? (No one ). I ' ll make a motion recessing,
this application until the . next Regular. Meeting , which will be
some time in Augusta We ' ll take care of this situation as quickly
as we can for you . I realize that you ' ve been ,befo.re the Planning
Board for a long time and . in no way do I want to lengthen .this
process . All right?
MR. ALIANO: Will someone contact me and let me know when it
will be?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , to recess the matter of NICHOLAS A.LIANO , Appeal
No. 3259, until the next Regular Meeting o.f _this—board (which is
planned for August 23 , .1984) .._
Vote .of the. Board Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer. , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . . .This .resol._ution was unanimously
adopted by _all the members .
PUBLIC HEAR.I.NG : Appeal No . 3255 . Application of 'THOMAS 'HIGGINS ,
48 Kenwood Road , Garden. City , 'NY 1 .1530 , for a Variance to the Zoning
Ordinance , Article III , Section 1.00-.31 for permission to construct
deck addition to dwelling with reduction of frontyard setback from
Cedar Point Drive East . _ Identification of Property : 80 Lakeside
Drive (a/k/a 675 Cedar Point Drive East) ,_ Southold; Cedar Beach:.Park
Subdivision Lot No . 81 ; County. Tax Map Parcel No . 1000-90-03-014,.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8 :46 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and' ap.peal application .
MR. CHAI.R.MAN : We . have a. copy of the Suffolk County. Tax' Map and
I have a copy of .a survey amended_ May 25 , 1983 _indicating a Jive-foot
proposed deck for an area , that I don..' t know-=the length of the house .
Would somebody, l.ike to be heard in behalf of the _application? Sir?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -23- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3255 THOMAS HIGGINS , continued : )
THOMAS HIGGINS: I don ' t know what to tell you except what' s there .
The back of the house is with sliding glass doors . I wanted a five-foot
walkway to walk around there . Either that or I ' m going to have to
arrange to have two stoops .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Higgins , how long is. that distance?
MR. HIGGINS : About the length of the house , 50 feet.
MR . CHAIRMAN : Fifty feet . Is there any reason why you suggested
a five-foot deck as opposed to anything smaller?
MR . HIGGINS : I figured it would. be k.i.nd'. of ridiculous to , I
don ' t know.
MR . CHAIRMAN : This will be an open deck?
MR . HIGGINS : Yeah .
MR. CHAIRMAN: With a railing?
MR. HIGGINS.: Well , either railing or one step down . Approximately
18 inches off the ground with it .
MR . CHAIRMAN : You mean you would put one step , run that the whole
50-foot distance?
MR . HIGGINS: Yes .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Almost like a stoop effect.
MR. HIGGINS: Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I thank you . We ' ll see if there are any other
questions . This would be of. wood construction , I assume , right?
MR. HIGGINS: Yes , sir .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there anybody else to speak in behalf of the
application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Yes , sir?
PAUL CAMINITI , ESQ . : Gentlemen , Paul Caminiti . I ' m an attorney
at Main Road ; Southold , New York , and I represent the adjacent property
owner , Peter Echo . I also understand that there ' s quite a . bit of
interest in this particular appeal , and I think there are about 15
to 20 members of the Cedar Beach -Association here in opposition also .
In interest of brevity , I ' ve prepared a statement that I would like to
submit to the board which covers three points . Two of the points will
be covered by the property owners association , and I ' ll just confine
my comments to the first point. If I may--
MR. CHAIRMAN : Certainly. Let me say also that we do have . this
Southold Town Board of Appeals -24- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3255 - THOMAS HIGGINS , conti.nued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN (continued ) :
letter in the file with what appears to be approximately 20 signatures
in opposition to this , and the board has read . it , ok , and we ' re not
required by law to read that , ok , therefore , it would be fruitless
also to try and read all the signatures , but we are. aware of it. ...: :
MR. CAMINITI : Mr. Chairman , the first point involves the actual
setback provisions . He has a 35-foot setback on the front , 11 feet
on the side , and if you ' ll see from the survey which he attached to
his original application , there ' s 31 feet on the back . Now he originally
required a 35-foot setback , but because of the fact that he came under
the exception that other houses within 300 feet of his house had a
minimal setback of 31 feet , he was allowed the 31 -foot setback. But
when he submitted an original plan , he submitted a plan for the largest
possible house that he could. possibly build on that unique piece of
property . He took the entire setback of 35 feet , 11 and 31 to build
a house of over 1 , 500 sq . ft . In the original plans he submitted
didn' t at the time he submitted them , he contemplated a deck , that is
the time that he should have submitted them in the plans to conform
with .the 31 -foot setback . Now that he ' s been granted relief already
to allow him to build a house within that 31 -foot setback instead of
the 35 , now he puts in the sliding glass doors and comes to this
board and now is requesting an additional five feet which would only
give him a 26-foot setback which is 'completely contrary to all the
other homes in the area . He ' s on a triangular piece of property .
It would be obvious there would be a difference between his deck
and all -the other houses in the area . Another point is , this property
intersects two roads , and up until this point there has never been a
problem with drainage or flooding . He ' s completely taken down a 1-ot
of the trees that belong to the association . He ' s scalped the
property entirely . It '-s completely barren . And the runoff from
the past couple. of rain storms have been so severe that there ' s been
a foot , foot and a half of water , at the intersection ; and the
situation is unbearable .. And to allow him any further variances
to build decks instead of re-plant,ing .trees or grading , would.,be
more harm to the community , and I believe the members of the associa-
tion would like to address themselves at this time on that particular
point .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Thank you , Mr . Caminiti . Would you kindly state
your name , sir?
FRANK FRANSELL : My name is Frank Fransell ; I ' m with the Board
of Directors of the Cedar Beach Park Association . We had a . meeting
last Sunday , July 22nd at which time came up and it was agreed .that
.the associa_ tio.n. would present some of its views on Mr . Higgins '
property . He ' s. been building for approximately 15 months now, and
we have. endured a water condit.ion that has been slightly improved
within about the last three weeks and we did bring in .q.uite a lot
of topsoil . But of course the grading is such that the problem
which was on his land is now on our road . I spent several. hundred
Southold Town Board of Appeals -25- July 26 , 1984 _Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3255 - THOMAS HIGGINS , continued : )
MR. FRANSELL (continued ) :
dollars bringing in stone blend trying to fill that in , and we ' ve
gotten some relief but it ' s not quite what we.. have to do . In
addition to that, he has deneutered the property . There ' s no
question about that. Now whether or not the shrubbery that he
removed was of fine quality or not is besides the point . All of
the roads in Cedar Beach Park are shrubbed up to th.e road ' s edge
and if you go down to the park and you come in , it ' s like going
into a tunnel of trees , and you turn the bend and you have somewhat
of an open area and then you come to another tunnel of trees . But
of course the tunnel had been broken where he was . We think he
should put them back . He has promised to do it, . but that was
15 months ago , and at this point , we don ' t think this argument is
relevant to the deck except for the fact he says every house has.:
a deck. There isn ' t a house in Cedar Beach Park , a house in Cedar
Beach- Park , that has a deck on the road side.. I think it ' s out
of keeping with the character of the area to put a deck on the
road side . If he wants to put a deck., let hi.m put it in the back
of the house where everyone else has a deck . And that ' s the
opinion of the association . I speak for them at this point . We
like to be good neighbors . We ' re not out to hurt Mr . Higgins , but
it ' s time that he began to cooperate with us a little bit more .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you , sir . Is there anybody else that
would like to speak against the application? Mr . Higgins , could
you„ gi.ve us a copy of the present building plan so that we might
_calculate the square footage of the existing building , breezeway
and garage . Not tonight. It ' s not necessary tonight. You can
bring it down to the office some time ,
MR. HIGGINS: Can I say something?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Surely .
MR. HIGGINS : My property is not thb only property that the
trees - were .-removed from. down _that area . _ The man that just spoke--
he ' s got ' a ( ) in front of his house . Number 2 , the water
problem that is created is created because I backfilled the area .
And that was my only hope of having a well .down there . The well ,
the guy from Mattituck , Kreiger, called .me , if you have the runoff
going onto your property , you ' re going to have problem with that
'well . So .to protect myself so that I could have a well , I back-
filled it. The water that,' s running off that ' s .running onto the
.road is not running off my property. I_'m the guy at the bottom
of the hill . It ' s_ coming off the properties all_ the way around.
The only way to solve the problem .the,re with th.e water on the road
is to .put a hole in my property and let the water run in there .
Which I don ' t think is fair to me . And the reason I have the
31 -foot from the road on this side is on account of the man that
put.-his up . His house is 31 feet to the road . That ' s the reason
I could do it. That ' s all I _want to say.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -267 July 26 , 1984 Regular -Meeting
(Appeal No . 3255 - THOMAS HIGGINS , continued : )
MR . CHAIRMAN : You, will bring in that plan for us to our office
before we start deliberating on this application?
MR. HIGGINS : Ok .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there anybody else that would like to speak
either for or against the application? (None ) Questions from
board members? (None ) Hearing no further questions , I ' ll make a
motion closing the hearing pending receipt of the present building
plan for the purpose .of calculating :the square footage .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Grigonis , ' it was
RESOLVED , to close t.he..heari-ng.-, in the matter of Appeal No .
3255 , application of THOMAS HIGGINS, pending receipt of the building
plan of the house and deck f.or. the purpose of calculating percentage
of lot coverage .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Gr. igonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resol.ution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
TEMPORARY RECESS: On motion by Mr. Sawicki , seconded by 'Mr .
Gocihr'inger ; 'it was . RESOLVED; to recess temporarily for approxi -
mately five minutes_. This resolution wa.s .unanimous1y adopted.
RECONVENE 'REGULAR MEETING: On motion by Mr. Goehringer,
seconded by Mr . Sawi.cki. ; it was RESOLVED, to reconvene the
Regular Meeting of this Board. This resolution was unanimously
adopted . The meeting reconvened - at 9 : 16 .o ' clock p .m.
(continued on page 26 )
Southold Town Board of Appeals -27- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
RECESSED PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No . 3234:
Application of ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT, ET7AL . , Private Road ,
Orient , NY for a reversal of the interpretation of the building
inspector concerning a Certificate of Occupancy No . Z11736 issued
June 21 , 1983, to E. Loucopoulos and H . Damianos for a one-family
dwelling and four accessory cottage structures at Private Road
No . 7 (a/k/a Diederick ' s Road ) , Orient; County Tax Map Parcel
No . 1000-18-03-005 [Current Owners : D. I . Abbott and J .T. Swanson] .
The Chairman reconvened the public hearing on this matter,
which was recessed from the June 21 , 1984 public hearing , at
approximately 9: 16 o ' clock p .m.
MR. CHAIRMAN (GOEHRINGER) : Mr . ' Pachman , since this hearing
was brought about by you and your clients , I would assume you
would be the first one to address the board .
HOWARD PACHMAN , ESQ . : I had served the Board of Assessors
last time with a subpoena , and they didn ' t supply the record
at that time .. They have since come in and they were mailed to me .
I have them here . I would like to submit them to the board .
(Mr. Pachman submitted the Assessor ' s transmittal letter with
enclosures : listed thereon . )
When I was talking last time , I was referring to a map showing
the Abbott and Swanson property and the adjacent owners and the
right-of-way . I didn ' t have an extra of that , and now I have a copy
which I ' d like the board to have . Since we referring to it , it
should be part of the record. And if you will recall , the telephone
company was here last time , and he testified as to certain books and
records that he did not have copies of. He was asked to mail copies
to the board and to myself. Did the board get their copies?
MR. CHAIRMAN : No .
MR. PACHMAN : ;.. All right. I have a copy for the board. I have
a copy for my adversary .
MR . CHAIRMAN : You meant LILCO .
MR. PACHMAN : LILCO . I ' m sorry. If you want more than one
copy , I have extra copies . (Mr:. : Pachman.. submitted five photocopies
concerning LILCO for the record. ) I think at this point , I don ' t
have anything to add except what I will reserve for the rebuttal .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -28- July 26 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT AND SWANSON , continued : )
MR . CHAIRMAN : Mr . Esseks? .
WILLIAM W. ESSEKS , ESQ. : I have an affidavit of Doctor Damianos ,
I can ' t pronounce his name--and he ' s here , and I ' m going to also have
him testify . So I ' d like to have his affidavit be part of the record ,
and I have a copy for the Doctor.:.. . Doctor , did you want to come up .
as a further witness?
DOCTOR DAMIANOS: Thank you .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Doctor , would you raise your right hand please?
Anything you have to say concerning. this hearing concerning this appli -
cation will be the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes (raising his right hand ) .
P.ETIT10NER."s STENOGRAPHER: Could you spell your full name?
DR. DAMIANOS : H-E-R-0-D-0-T-U-S D-A-M- I-A-N-O-S .
MR . ESSEKS : Are you a medical doctor?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes .
MR . ESSEKS : I ' ll show you a survey that Mr. Pachman just gave
to the chairman that purports to show a parcel of 1-and bounded on
the north by the Long Island Sound. Do you recognize this parcel ?
DR . DAMIANOS: Yes .
MR . ESSEKS: Did you ever own it?
DR . DAMIANOS: Yes , we did .
MR . ESSEKS: By yourself or someone else?
DR . DAMIANOS: With my sister , Mrs . E-U-R-Y-D- I-C- E, pronounced
Eurydice , Loucopoulos , L-0-U-C-0-P-0-U-L-0-S, a nice Polish name.
MR. ESSEKS : Doctor. The survey that Mr . Pachman handed up
purports to show four cottages , and a two-story frame house .
DR. DAM.IANOS : That ' s correct.
MR. ESSEKS : When did.!you and your sister acquire the premises?
DR. DAMIANOS : In 1973 .
MR. ESSEKS: And when did you sell it?
DR. DAMIANOS: Recently in 1984 . Early of this year.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -29- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT AND SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: The cottages--were the cottages shown on this survey
and the house shown on this survey on the premises when you acquired it
in 1973?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes , they were .
MR . ESSEKS : Now , would you be so good as to describe to the
audience and the members of the Board of Appeals the extent , if any,
to which you or anyone else used those cottages between the time you
acquired it in 1973 until the time you sold it to my clients?
DR. DAMIANOS : In 1973 , when we acquired the property , we are
presently operators of a Nursing Home called Woodhaven Nursing Home
in Port Jefferson , and two larger built Homes , one in Port Jefferson
Station , and one in Patchogue . These facilities employ more than
300 people , 200 people . At that time , my sister and I decided that
we would find an area in which some of our employees would benefit
by this lovely piece of property. And that ' s primarily what
precipitated us in buying this in 1973 . When we first viewed the
property , we had our employees use the cabins on the property for
what we call rest and rehabilitation , and did so up until the sale
of the property.
(At this point in time , Mr. Leslie laughed loudl:y. )
MR. ESSEKS: Mr. Chairman , is it expected that members of the
audience can giggle and cackle and carry on in the adolescent fashion?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Not usually , Sir.
MR . ESSEKS: I think it will detract somewhat from the ability
of my client to present their case .
DR. DAMIANOS:' Oh , that ' s ok , Counsellor . I ' m sure that you ' ll
be asking more questions that would certainly vindicate that comment .
MR . ESSEKS : Did you visit the property each year , 1973 to 1983?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes , I did.
MR . ESSEKS: Then tell the members of the audience , the members
of the board , to what extent you visited the property yourself and
saw it either. .yourself, members of the family or others using the
property?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes . During the Year ' 73 until approximately
' 78 , ' 79 , they were primarily occupied by members of our--employees
of our facilities . I can certainly attest that in ' 80 when Pindar
Vineyards was established here on Peco.nic , Long Island , I also
incorporated some of our vineyard people and our workers who worked
in such close proximity to use the cottages ; _ and in 1980 , 1981 , 1982 ,
and 1983 , not only did the members of my staff frequent the cottages ,
so did I .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals - 30- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT AND SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: Did you stay overnight , or did you just occupy them
during the day?
DR. DAMIANOS: Many , many times . Overnight .
MR. ESSEKS : Do you recognize this gentleman who is giggling?
DR. DAMIANOS: I really don ' t recognize anyone . Only the com-
plaints that I would unhurri.gd.ly get about radios being on , et cetera .
And that ' s one of the problems that we had , and we banned all radios
used on the premises .
MR . ESSEKS: Did you ever see him at the premises--the gentleman
with the orange shirt?
DR. DAMIANOS : Many of these people who lived adjoining the
property would come to the property and ask who we were , and when I
was there , I would introduce them and myself. But when I was not
present , I always had a letter of authorization on my stationery
informing anyone who arrived on my property that these people were
allowed to be on my property on the part of my staff in the event
that a police car would come or whatever the case may be . They had
a document that I would write , and they would carry with them at all
times .
MR. ESSEKS: Now , the content that you described , did it occur
each year , ' 73 , 74 , 75 , 763 77 , 78 , 79 , 803 81 , 82 , and 83?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes , we always had residents or people staying
at that property during these years .
MR . ESSEKS: Can you identify my name some of the people that
you personally recollect--
DR . DAMIANOS : Absolutely .
MR . ESSEKS : That you know stayed there .
DR. DAMIANOS: Well , absolutely .
MR . ESSEKS: Can you describe them by name?
DR . DAMIANOS: Number one , Mr . and Mrs . James Morand and their
son , John , who was my vineyard foreman . Alexander and Jason Damianos ,
two of my boys . Michael Jazanti (spellin.g':,. unknown ) , one of my
part-time helpers from St . James , Long Island , where I live . K. J .
Morand , also .a worker on the vineyard. John Carlucci , also a worker
on the vineyard . Kirk Kelly , Arlene Connolly , and her husband .
MR . ESSEKS: I ask that you would read this affidavit of Arlene
Connolly .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -31 - July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS:" . .Arlene Connolly , being duly sworn , deposes and
says: . 1 . I am employed by the Woodhaven Home. for Adults ; 2 . I
make this affidavit. to advise that during the July 4th_ weekend in
1975 I occupied two of the cabins on the property. in question with
my sister and friends; 3. During the 4th of July weekend in 1978
I occupied one cabin at the property with my husband and my sister . . . . "
Signed Arlene Connolly and notarized .
MR. ESSEKS : I ask that that be made part of the record . Do
you know a " Kathryn Krejci ? "
DR. DAMIANOS: Oh , yes , she ' s a sweetheart .
MR. ESSEKS : Besides that she' s a sweetheart , do you also know
her in some other capacity?
(A remark was made by Dick Leslie to - Dr. Damianos . )
DR. DAMIANOS to Dick Leslie : How dare you say that !
MR. CHAIRMAN : Excuse me?
DR. DAMIANOS : I refuse to be insulted by members of your
group here or by the audience . If anyone , I would say , Sir--excuse
me , I have my rights as well , but_ a perjurer I am not . How dare
you make that accusation !
MR . ESSEKS : I hope that the record reflects the comments of
the gentleman , and Mr. Pachman , would you .so good as to identify
him for the record? Identify your client who stated that Dr.
Damianos was a perjurer , a person guilty of a committed crime .
MR. PACHMAN : May I have a break here , Mr . --
MR. ESSEKS: I would like the record to reflect the gentleman
who did that.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I just want to say something before-- Doctor?
I must apologize at the last hearing which you were not , I did have
a police officer present . I was with the Chief of Police yesterday .
I did not ask him.
DR. DAMIANOS: I ' m sorry , sir. I had no intent to create a
problem. Perjury of course is very damaging to myself and my
reputation_, and I will withhold al.l comments if you would care
for me to read the next affidavit, I would be happy to do so .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Just let me say that normally in this particular
case , , I have no intentions of taking anybody from this board and
asking someone to physically remove themselves from this premises ,
that was the purpose of .the. police officer . Ok?
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -32- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS: I understand.
MR . CHAIRMAN : At this particular time , I have the telephone
plugged in , and if there are any further outb.reaks., all ri„ght , by
anybody in the audience that does, not have a mike in __their hand and
is not speaking in the mike so that it can be controlled by this
lady down . here and this lady up here , I will call th.e._ police and
I Will have them extricated from this room.
DR. DAMIANOS : Mr . Chairman , thank you very much for your
kindness and your gentleness , and we certainly appreciate it .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr . Pachman , did you want to--
MR . PACHMAN : Can-..we have 'a five-minute recess?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you have any objection to that?
MR. ESSEKS : None .
On motion by Mr . Sawicki , seconded "by Mr . Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , to recess for approximately five minutes .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted . by, al l the members . .
At 9:41 p .m. , the meeting reconvened , on motion by Mr. Douglass ,.
seconded by.. Mr,. Gri goni s it was
RESOLVED, to reconvene the meeting of this board and to
continue _wi.th the public hearing in the matter of Appeal No . 3234 ,
'Truckeribrodt/Abbott/Swanson .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen, Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted 'by. all the members .
DICK LESLIE:, apologjzed to _the: board and the members of .the
audience' and .assured_...t_hem the.:di:sruption would not happen again .
MR. ESSEKS: Doctor , I believe we were at the point where I
was asking you if you knew a Kathryn Krejci .
DR. DAMIANOS: Krejci .
MR. ESSEKS : Is she. empl'oyed at one of your places of business ,
sir?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes , she is .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -33- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . ESSEKS : In what capacity?
. DR. DAMIANOS : She 's an assistant administrator..
MR. ESSEKS: Now , .would you read her affidavit please?
D.R.. DAMIANOS : Yes . " . , . Kathryn Krejci. , being duly sworn , deposes
and says : l . . I reside at-:Miller Place , New York and I. am employed
by the Woodhaven Home for Adults ; ., 2 , I make . this affidavit to advise
that .my. husband and I stayed in cottage number 4 on the . property in
question for at least one. night on my birthday weekend during the years
1981 and 1982 ; 3 . I further advise that there was no electrical
power at that time and my husband and I employed a camping lantern . . . . "
MR. ESSEKS: I would like the original , which I believe you have
in your hand , to be made a part of. the record. I gave a copy to Mr.
Pachman .
MS . GERARDI , stenographer for Mr . Pachman, asked Dr . Damianos
for the spelling of Krejci. .
DR. DAMIANOS: K-R-E-J-C- I .
MR. ESSEKS: K-R-E-J-C- I . .
MR . PACHMAN : Well there are two different spellings on the
affidavit, I believe the bottom one is the correct one .
MR. ESSEKS: The one that she printed. She ' s here and she will
be sworn in a couple of minutes . Doctor , did there come a time when
there was no longer electricity servicing the cabin?
OR. DAMIANOS: Yes , there was .
MR. ESSEKS: And when was that.
DR. DAMIANOS: I really don ' t recall .
MR. ESSEKS : What did you do with regard to toilet facilities
after there was no longer electricity at the site?
DR . DAMIANOS : Did two things in terms of sanitation at the
time that I was there and what was instructed the people who were
there . We brought with us Jerry cans that we used on. the vineyard
for bringing out fresh water, for fresh water . What we would
norm.a:l.ly::do is arrive at about 6 or 7 o ' clock and just in the
beauti_ful_, Long Island Sound after a hard .day ' s work . We carried
on the fresh _water , and the use of .the toilet facilities in the
cabin using the water from the sea that we carried in to use as
a flushing__ d.evi ce .
MR . ESSEKS: Doctor , annexed to your affidavit that ' s. been
Southold Town Board or Appeals -34- July 26 , iy84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . ESSEKS (continued.) :
handed up and made a part of the record , is something called Green
Acre cottages rules and regulations . Could you tell us who created
those rules and regulations ; for what purpose and what you did with
them.
DR. DAMIANOS: What we did back in ' 73 when the recreation
department had built the nursing home and the adult homes coordinated
the use of the cabins by the employees , various rules and regulations
that woul,d govern their behavior of this property inasmuch as. that
there were other people and neighbors present , and this was formulated
regarding check-in time , check-out time , what could be done and what
could not be done , and these were the rules and regulations of which
anyone who went to the cottages were obligated to abide by. We
. called .the property "Green Acres . "
MR. ESSEKS: I have no other questions .
MR . ESSEKS : . Do you have a recollection as to whether the location
of the cottages -- withdrawn . When did you first see the cottages?
DR. DAMIANOS : 1972 , I believe , sir.
MR. ESSEKS : Are they in the same location today as they were
in ' 72?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes , they are .
MR. ESSEKS: Are they any larger? Were they in the same physical
size in ' 83 when you sole. it .to my clients as it was in ' 72 when you
first saw it?
DR. DAMIANOS : Same size , sir .
MR. ESSEKS : Now, when you bought the cottages in ' 73 , how were
they furnished?
DR. DAMIANOS : There was a . small kitchen , a bathroom, bedroom,
sort of like a little ( ) room, small little porch .
MR. ESSEKS: Furniture?
DR. DAMIANOS : There was some furniture . Yes . There was some
furniture . ' As a matter of .fa,ct ; th_e' kitchen , yes . I -wouldn ' t give
much for the beds .
MR. ESSEKS : I have no other questions .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Can I ask one question?
DR. DAMIANOS : Sure .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -35- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Doctor , at any time , were these cottages rented
for a monetary sum?
MR . ESSEKS : Mr : Chairman , I assume you mean while he owned them?
MR. CHAIRMAN : While he owned them , yes .
DR. DAMIANOS: They were leased to the Adult Home and to the
Nursing Home . Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : But you did not charge a.ny of your employees any
money?
DR. DAMIANOS: No . The homes themselves paid for the rental as
part of some of the benefits that they would receive .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there any lease agreement that you could show
us?
MR. ESSEKS : Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Oh , you have that . Ok . I ' m over-stepping-
MR. ESSEKS: I ' ve got to get them in order .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is this taking you out of order?
MR. ESSEKS: I ' ve got to -find these things . Doctor , I ' ll show you
at least what purports to be two xerox copies of executed leases
between-- I ' m not going to go through those names--
DR. DAMIANOS : Let me try . Xenophon Damianos and Herodotos
Damianos .
MS . GERARDI , stenographer : . Say that again?
DR, DAMIANOS: X-E-N-O-P-H-O-N Damianos , D-A-M-:I-A-N-O-S , and
Herodotos H=E-R-0-D-0-T-S Damianos , herein referred 'to as Landlord ,
and South Country Adult Homes regarding property at Orient , New York
known as Green Acres ,_. dated November lst , 1973 , and to end October3l.st.,
1978.
MR. ESSEKS: You also have a lease , how much was the consideration
on that?
DR. DAMIANOS: Ten thousand , ten thousand dollars .
MR. ESSEKS:. For the same period of time there was also a lease --
DR. DAMIANOS : With the same names , Woodhaven Home for Adults ,
_ property at * Orient , New York , known as Green Acres , November 1st ; 1973 ,
until October 31st , 1978, for a sum of $10 ,.000 .
MR . ESSEKS: Those were both Woodhaven Home for Adults , right?
DR. DAMIANOS : One was Home for Adults , the other was SOuth Country
Homes .
Southold Town Board of- Appeals -36- July 26 , 1-984 Regular. Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: All right. Here are two more .
DR. DAMIANOS : Again , same names , South Country Adult Home , same
propety at Orient , New York , known as Green Acres , from November 1st',
. 1973 until October 31st , ' 78., annual rental $.10 ,000 . Another lease
sent for the same names , Orient Point to Woodhave. Home for Adults
November 1st , 1978 until October_ 31st , ' 83, $10 ,000 .
MR. ESSEKS : Are those true xerox copies of the original leases
that were xeroxed in. ,my presence by your lawyer and given to me. two
weeks ago?
DR. DAMIAN08: Yes , that ' s correct.'
MR. ESSEKS: I ask that they be part of the record.
(Four xerox copies of leases were entered for the record and
marked WE, exhibits 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 of 7/26 . by the Chairman .' )
MR . CHAIRMAN : I ' d like no further -testimony until -- I ' m not
going - to say anything until I get a copy so I ca,n log them in .
MR. PACHMAN reviewed the four xerox copies of leases and had
no objection . -
MR. CHAIRMAN : I ' m numbering them. Ok , did you have a question ,.
Mr. Esseks?
MR. ESSEKS: No . I have no further questions of the witness
and I ' apologize for interrupting ._.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Doctor, I will ask you maybe a question or two
during-- , Mr. Pachman?
MR. PACHMAN : I ' ll wait.
MR. CHAIRMAN : No , no . That was all I --
MR. PACHMAN : Before I ask any questions of the Doctor , is
Kathryn Krejci --
MR. ESSEKS : She ' s here .
MR. PACHMAN : She ' s. going to testify?
MR. ESSEKS : Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : All right , so I ' ll hold off on that affidavit
un.til she. testifi.es . . Is Arlene Connolly going to testify?
r MR . ESSEKS: Is she here?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -37- July 26 , 1984 Regular. Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
(No rep.sonse ) .
MR. PACHMAN: So she ' s not going to testify . Ok . With reference
to .Arlene Connolly ' s affidavit , Dr . Damianos , would you .please tell me
the period of which she claims to have rented the.. property, or used
the property?
DR. DAMIANOS: In .her affidavit she states that she used the
property on July 4th weekend in ' 75 and that she occupied two of
the cabins at the property in question and also during the. 4th of
July weekend in ' 78.
MR . PACHMAN : In ' 78.
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Did she -occupy--when did you sell the property
to Mrs . Swanson and Abbott?
DR. DAMIANOS: In 1984.
MR. PACHMAN : Did they , did Mi,Ssi.Connolly , Arlene Connolly occupy-
DR . DAMIANOS: ' 83 , not ' 84.
MR. PACHMAN : 1;83., .Did Arlene Connolly occupy it in ' 83?
DR. DAMIANOS : Not to my recollection .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Did she occupy i.t in ' 82?
. DR. DAMIANOS : I think , Counsel , that the .affidavit states--
MR. PACHMAN: I understand that, Doctor, . I ' m just trying t-o
establish that .for a per-i.od of .tw.o years prior to the transfer of
title., this affidavit does not indicate that this person who :si!gned
this affidavit occupied the premises in that period of time . In
' 75 thi.,.s property may have been occupied_, we had no question about
that. But the period two years prior to the transfer of this
property from yourself to the present owners , th`ey.. were not occupied
by Arlene.. Connol'ly. Is that correct , is that what the affidavit says?.
DR. DAMIANOS: It would be correct according to the affidavit .
MR. PACHMAN : I have no objection to that affidavit . Now, may I
see those leases again please?
MR. CHAIRMAN : As long as I get them back .
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , yes , don ' t. worry. I ' ll be sure to get them back.
Doctor , it would appear from both these leases that you,�rented the
.same property in tw-o different corporatio_n_s during the same period of
time. Is that correct , sir?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -38- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3.234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS: That' s dorrect.
MR . PACHMAN : And you received rent . from both corporations for
the' same property?
DR. DAMIANOS: They' re :not corporations , but nevertheless.
MR. PACHMAN : Entity.
DR. DAMIANOS Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Let me just go back to the first one that you
leased to Woodhaven Home _ for Adults which was from, . Woodhaven Home for
Adults ; and 'that was from October 1st-=November lst , 1973 to- Octo-
ber 31st , 1978. . Now that lease expired prior to . two years before
the transfer of title , am 1:.correct?<<.- '
DR. .DAM1\ANOS : May I see the leases?
MR. PACHMAN: Yes , sir . And I think that expired some four years
before .
DR. DAMIANOS : The lease from Woodhaven Home_ for Adults , 1973
to 1978 , correct .
MR. PACHMAN: So that was not , the coverage did not cover a
period for two years prior to when you transferred the title?
DR. DAMIANOS: Y-ou ' re referring to 1981 ?
MR. PACHMAN : That ' s right . This lease .
DR. DAMIANOS: With that lease , no .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . I have no objection to that lease, and I
just want_ _the , board to indicate it , I don ' t know how- you marked it.
MR. CHAIRMAN : WE 5 . .
MR. PACHMAN: That would be number 5?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR_. PACHMAN : Ok . Now with reference to the lease between
yoursel.f .and the Suffolk County Ad•u_lt Home which also covers the
period. of November 1.., ' 73 to ' 78 th, your answer to at would. be the
same?
DR. DAMIANOS: The lease reads. November; lst , ` 73 to. 0.ctober' :3lst ,
' 78 , and the entity. is called the South Country Adult Home , that is
correct.
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -39- July 26 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No.. 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
.MR. PACHMAN : So that doesn' t cover a period in excess-- it would
have been two years from the time you transferred the title?
DR. DAMIANOS: 1978, Counsellor .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . So I would have no objection to that lease
being entered ; and I think it should be indicated that ' s the period
s
of time . Now we cover the lease ..which apparently overlap . That' s.
the one from Novem=- I haven ' t lost the board , I hope .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I ' m. referring to our recorder that that was
number 8 .
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , ok . Thank you . Is this number 7 , sir?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. PACHMAN: Ok . With reference to Exhibit #7 which is yourself
and Woodhaven Homes , that is for the period starting with ' 78, resum-
ing when the other lease expired , and went to October 31st of ' 83.
You remember when you transferred the property , what date?
DR. DAMIANOS: Um , November 3rd , ' 83 .
MR. PACHMAN : November 30 of ' 83. So that was after this lease?
DR. DAMIANOS: Third .
MR. PACHMAN : Third . All right. So that was after this lease
expired?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . In the period beginning with 19-- this lease
doesn ' t define .whether it covers the cottages or the main house , does
it?
DR. DAMIANOS: Green Acres is known at the Adult Homes and at
the Nursing Home as _being a parcel of land located in Orient Point ,
which consists of the main house and four cabins .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . So , although the lease covers that parcel of
property , it does not segregate or say which portion of the rental
applied to the cabins and which portion of rental applied to the
main house .
MR . ESSEKS : Is that a question?
MR. PACHMAN : Sounds like one to me .
MR . ESSEKS : Wouldn ' t. you say the lease speaks for itself, Howard?
MR . PACHMAN : I can ' t .answer.:.that:..;quest.i.on . The lease doesn ' t
speak fo,r_ itself.. If ,the lease spoke for itself, I wouldn ' t ask the
question .
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -40- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3234 - ARTHUR 'R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS: I think the intent of the lease and as the employees
have viewed this , is that the property consisted of the main house and
four cabins , and the lease included at the time 12. point something acres
called Green Acres , and all of. the structures were available to these
employees . _
MR . PACHMAN : Doctor , whether the building3-were occupied or not,
you would still get the rent , 'is that correct?...
DR. DAMIANOS: I would say , counsel , that that' s. true of any l.ease .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok. So whether the buildings were occupied, the
cabins were occupied , the mere fact that' you entered into a lease does
not in any way indicate that anyone occupied the cabins .
DR. DAMIANOS : I can ' t make that judgment . I think that ' s.
probably a conclusion that you ' ve made .
MR . PACHMAN : Well , I 'm. asking you , if you-- if the payment of
the rent _has any cond_i t.i on that it be occupied by anybody. between the
two corporations that paid $10 ,000 annually .to each one of these
properties for-,-:a'a total :;of .$20',.000 , was' i.t. predicated on the fact that
they be occupied or not occupied? .
DR. DAMIANOS: The lease was predicated on the fact that these
cabins , all including a -house , were open for the employees of .the
three facilities in which,
MR. PACHMAN: I 'm not denying that , Doctor . I 'm. just asking you
whether_ i_t was necessary that _the_y be occupied for the_ rent that they
paid?
DR. DAMIANOS: I ' ve never structured a lease in that fashion and
I don ' t., know' how, to answer that question :
MR. PACHMAN: It doesn ' t matter whether they were occupied or
not , Woodhaven Home for the Adults and South Country Ad.ult ,Home would
pay the rent?
DR. DAMIANOS : That ' s. correct.
MR. PACHMAN : And I presume your books reflect that obviously
that a rent' twas taken at the time . -
DR. DAMIANOS : Certainly.
MR. PACHMAN : .0k . I have no objection to that. Now, Doctor ,
the lease that ex.Pired. 1978 ,-.:which was the first two leases , seem
to coincide with" the same time that the electricity was turned off
with LILCO. Do' you remember turning the electrici..'ty off .with LILCO?
Southold Town Board o-t Appeals . -41 - July 26 , 'ijo4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS : I believe the office may have managed that during
the winter months , yes . I received a telephone call from Mr . Galluckson
in 1978. It was December , if I recall correctly , in which he called
me atiAy office and informed me that. some of the wires were down and
that that it might be . dangerous for people that might be trespassing
on the property . At that time I informed my office who handled the
matter in order to have the power I would imagine at that time turned
off so that no damage be done since there was a storm and something .
had occurred to the wires coming across the property .
MR. PACHMAN : I appreciate that , Doctor . Now, did you repair
those wires at any time?
DR . DAM1ANOS: No .
MR. PACHMAN : Was the electricity turned on in 1979?
DR. DAMIANOS: The electricity was not turned on from 1979 until
1983.
MR . PACHMAN : Ok . So anyone who occupied the main building or
the cabins occupied it without electricity.
DRo DAMIANOS : That ' s correct.
MR. PACHMAN : And anyone who occupi e.d thb-.buf:l di ngs during that
period of, time had to carry a jerry can of water. to flush the toilet?
DR. DAMIANOS : No , sir . They carried a jerry can of water for
potable water.
MR. PACHMAN : Ok. How d,i.d they flush the toilet?
DR. DAMIANOS: About 100 .feet away is the great Long Island Sound
and they picked up the bucket of water. from there . and they flushed
the toilets .
MR . PACHMAN : Doctor , is that good practices?
DR. DAMIANOS : Of course , it is , sir . It certainly beats going
in the bushes .
MR . PACHMAN : It certainly beats good plumbing, .right?
DR. DAMIANOS : There ' s a cesspool .
MR. PACHMAN : But the cesspool wasn ' t used?
MR. ESSEKS: :: Did you get an answer to your question.?
MR. PACHMAN : I 'm waiting .
DR. DAMIANOS: I didn ' t go down to the cesspool to see whether it
was being used. I know that pipes went into the cesspool .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -42- July 26 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/AB_BOTT/SWANSON ; continued : )
MR. PACHMAN: Ok . Did you supply camping equipment to the people
using these premises?
DR. DAMIANOS: No .
MR. PACHMAN : Did they use camping equipment when they used these
premises , that you know of.
DR. DAM.IANOS: In part. I do know of.
MR. PACHMAN: Ok . And do .you know the nature of this camping
equipment that they used?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes . They used coleman lamps for illumination in
the evening , they brought in barbeque and Hibachi apparatus . They
brought in sleeping bags and also sleeping cots .
MR. PACHMAN : Doctor , do .you know the .premises , you know it fairly
wel 1 , don' t you?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes , I do .
MR. PACHMAN If someone .was using a Hibachi or an outdoor grill ,
and with the neighbors surrounding the property be able to see that?
DR. DAMIANOS: The neighbors that were constantly trespassing
. probably could. But the location where the neighbors were , it would
may or may not be visible depending on what they were doing .
MR . PACHMAN : ).. Wo.uld you see smoke?
DR. DAMIANOS: From a Hibachi , sir? Very little I think . By
the time they would see it from the distance they were at , it would
have diffused in the atmosphere.
MR. PACHMAN : These people I presume swam at ."the beach?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Were the people who lived surrounding the property,
were they able to see whether people used the beach and were in the
water if they were looking--
DR. DAMIANOS: Probably only one person would probably .see that ,
and I thi,nk:..that that was . Mr. . Gallockson who had a house by the
water . The others I ' m not sure .w.hether they could see them or not .
MR . PACHMAN : Well , Mearns has-- if I show you this survey which
we looked at before and asked you if those 'are the four cabins, would
you think your ,attorney--no , as I showed you before the four cabins
exist right here , is that correct?
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -43- 'July 26 , iy84 Regular Meeting .
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , contin.ued : )
DR. DAMIANOS : That ' s correct.
MR . RACHMAN : All right . Now you have the Mearns , did . they see
from the water-side anyone doing anything on the water-side in the
location of their property?
DR. DAMIANOS: Are the Mearns the Gallucksons?
MR . RACHMAN : No . Mearns are the ones all the way .at the edge
near the water .
DR. DAMIANOS: No , their house is at the end of the--at the end
close to the .water. There is some hedges of some kind of foliage
that separpates the property from that last cabin . As a matter of
fact , they even put a fence up there . If I recall correctly , unless
that fence was taken down , and I would imagine that they went on
their patio and looked out to their extreme east , they would
probably see people swimming , yes .
MR. RACHMAN : What about the Gullocksons?
DR. DAMIANOS : I really don ' t know because there is so much
dense foliage and heavy trees , I ' m not certain whether they could
see where we might be swimming at the beach .
MR. RACHMAN : What about the Hesses?
DR . DAMIANOS: Sir , I would find that difficult and I again
cannot be certain . But I think I would find it difficult unless
you ' re looking through the trees . It ' s very heavily wooded.
And there is a gully down--
MR . RACHMAN : Do you know when those trees were taken down?
DR. DAMIANOS: Which trees , sir?
MR. RACHMAN : Blocking the Mearns , the Gullocksons and the Hesses
on the same side . Do you recollect when they were taken down?
DR . DAMIANOS: I didn ' t say there were trees blocking . The
property here is covered with trees . If you looked at the property
and. if you walked the property , you would find that when you come
over a deep rise and you go down.. approx_imately maybe 20 or 30 feet
and then come down into the flatland , there .i.s a slight rise coming
up , • and then down again to .t•he water side . If you. were sitting on
the beach back by the tree line , just sitting , you probably could not
see someone at the water line because of that slight , that slight
cove that comes over.
MR. RACHMAN : On the north side of that property , a gentleman
by ,the name of Pung , Dr . Pung--
r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -44- July 26 , 19tsW Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - 'ARTHUR 'R: 'TRUCKENBRO.DT/ABB.O.TT/* SWANSON , coiit.inued : )
DR. DAMIANOS: Dr . Pung . I know Or. Pung well . As a matter of
fact , he--
MR . PACHMAN : Would he be able to see the property?
DR. DAMIANOS: Dr. Pung could probably see part of the property .
. He uses my property all the time_ to bring in helicopters . Dr . Pung
is a chemo-therapist in New York and it ' s difficult to communicate
with him sometimes , and I don ' t him using the property , but I was
worried about the safety and liability involved when. he flew in with
helicopters . I% told hi.m he could use the property but he would
please check to be sure there were no people on the beach , otherwise
somebody might be injured. Dr. Pung and I had difficulty in.
communicating in the English. language .
MR. PACHMAN : When you say cottages 1 , 2 ; 3- or 4, can you
designate. io me on here ,-,;,Which you mean are cabins 1 , 2 , 3 and 4,
if I take a pen so we know which ones we.',r.e talking about , if we
take this one , now this is the main house right here , right?
DR. DAMIANOS: Let me see . I .don ' t have my glasses . Yes .
That ' s. the two-story framed house .
MR.. PACHMAN : Ok . If we take the first one to that;:- :-.aafi:` we
call it number one .
DR. DAMIANOS: Ok .
MR. ESSEKS : Howard , you were asking him a question .
MR : PACHMAN: I ' m just saying I want him to designate the map .
MR. ESSEKS: Why don ' t you go ahead and ask for it? .
DR. . DAMIANOS.: If you want to call it number one , that ' s fine .
MR. PACHMAN : Do you want to call it number four?
MR. ESSEKS: I don' t. care what you call it.
MR. PACHMAN : What number do you want to call it?
' DR. DAMIANOS : I don ' t know. What number do you want?
MR. PACHMAN: Call it any number you want.
DR. . DAMIANOS: Call it four .
MR. PACHMAN: Call that one four?
DR. DAMIANOS : One to ten . Take four.
MR. PACHMAN : Call that one four. Ok . Let' s take the one to
the left of that.
Southold Town Board oT Appeals -45- July 26 , 196,+ Regular Meet.ing
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAM.IANOS. So it would have to be three , two , one I would
imagine .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr . Pachman , could you tell us which one you ' re--
MR. PACHMAN : I ' m going to give it to you right now so you can see
them , ok?
MR . CHAIRMAN : So I would assume one is on the west side .
MR. PACHMAN : Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : And four is on the east side?
MR. PACHMAN : Right. For the record , ok? So the most , well
the easterly cabin is number four and the most westerly cabin in
number. one . Do you know if at any time whether all four cabins were
occupied at the same time?
DR. DAMIANOS : Simultaneously?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes .
DR. DAMIANOS: I don ' t know for any certainty , no .
MR. PACHMAN : Was any one cabin used more than any of the other
cabins?
DR. DAMIANOS: Not with any great certainty .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . There was some testimony last time , Doctor ,
and I 'm trying to refresh my recollection, ..there were shutters on
these cabins , and. the screens were. covered with shutters and doors
were covered. When these people went out, ...:did they take the..shutters
down as far as you know? Or did they leave them up?
DR. DAMIANOS: Well , counsellor, I really can ' t recollect but
I would imagine we had_ and I know. we had a great deal of damage from
the elements from the storms , et cetera , especially as you know out
here on the Fo.rk if .we get a good northeastern , we really get blasted
badly down there . When we had a few northeasterly, and I watch the
weather very , very closely , and certainly problems where the shutters
were, broken ..down or torn. .off , et cetera. .
MR . PACHMAN: Well , when these people--we ' re trying to find out
when these people came , did they take these shutters down , spend two
days or the one day there , and then they put the shutters back up
again when they left., is that part of your rules and regulations?
DR. DAMIANOS: I think my rules and regulations doesn ' t say
anything about shutters .
MR. PACHMAN : All right , did you take down the shutters at the
beginning. of the season and then at the end of the season put the
Southold Town Board of Appeals -46- July 26 , ry84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN (continued) :
shutters back up again?
DR. DAMIANOS : Y.ou 'rr. e refe;rrng. :to :.shi .tters as what? . The actual --
MR. PACHMAN :. Swanson indicated.. to me that there. were wooden
shutters over " the screen doors. and over the screen windows to protect
the screens . And I 'm. aski'ng' you , and you have some photographs there
that I think show some shutters if I may have the: .-photographs , maybe
that will help the Doctor refresh.. his recollection .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Are you talking about the photographs that were
supplied to us?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes , of the buildings .
(The photographs were viewed.)
MR. PACHMAN : Here are some shutters . The other photographs--
yes , these shutters . The shutters in the photograph .
DR. DAMIANOS: Those aren ' t. shutters . Those are storm shutters--
they ' re. not ' really shutters . A shutter is one that looked like you
were in Bermuda .
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , I ' m. sorry . No , no. These .
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes . Oh defi.nitely . Oh sure.
MR. PACHMAN : Those were taken down?
DR. DAMIANOS : Oh certainly . Picked up and taken down .
MR. PACHMAN : Each time someone used it .
DR. DAMIANOS: Qh , yeah . It would happen during the summer.
Most of .the - time they were up , you know, people who forgot to put.
them do.wn..'. -
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Now your rules and regulations that you
indicated_ a part of your affi.davit ,_. they covered the period from
when to when?
DR. DAMIANOS : During the entire course of the ownership of
the property '.'-.
MR. PACHMAN': And every time someone came out , they were g vend
one of .these rules and regulations?
DR. DAMIANOS: These rules and regulations were on record at
both the Adult Home,..and the' Nursing Home and they were available to
them, and they were given the`:r..ules and regulations .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -47- July 26 , iy84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR 'R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN : Between ' 82 and ' 83 , you indicated some people
occupied these cottages . I don ' t recall their names . Could you give
me their names again please?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes . Michael Duvaney.
MR. PACHMAN : Is he here tonight?
DR. DAMIANOS: No .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Do. you know how many times he stayed there?
DR. DAMIANOS: I would to give you an estimate , counsellor?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes . To your best recollection .
DR. DAMIANOS : During the Year ' 81 , approximately five times .
During the Year ' 82--
MR. PACHMAN : Approximately five times . Did he stay in one , two ,
or three ,. or four, which cottages?
DR. DAMIANOS: I don ' t know.
MR. PACHMAN : Did he stay in more than one cottage?
DR. DAMIANOS : But it ' s. conceivable he did.
MR. PACHMAN : He stayed in several cottages?
DR. DAMIANOS : It ' s conceivable , sir , he did.
MR. PACHMAN : But you don ' t know which ones .
DR. DAMIANOS: No .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Let ' s. take ' 82 . How many times did he go
but then?
DR. DAMIANOS : ' 82', several times .
MR. PACHMAN : You don ' t know the amount.
DR. DAMIANOS: No .
MR. PACHMAN : Do' you know if he stayed in one or more cottages?
DR. DAMIANOS: I. think the same .answer.
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . And ' 83?
DR. DAMIANOS : In ' 83 several times during the course of .the
summer and approximately a week anda half .to two weeks during harvest
time , which was some time in the middle -of September until the end of
Southold Town Board of Appeals -48- July 26 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS (continued) :
September , beginning of October .
MR.. PACHMAN : Did he stay at a cottage or did he stay at the main
house?
DR. DAMIANOS : Primarily at the cottages .
MR. PACHMAN : And he stayed in more than one cottage?
DR. DAMIANOS : I don ' t know that.
MR. PACHMAN : Is there anyone else in ' 81 who stayed at the
.cottages?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes . Jason Damianos .
MR. PACHMAN : Jason Damianos . How many times did Jason Damianos
stay there?
. DR. DAMIANOS : Jason stayed in ' 81 about the same amount as
Mike did.
MR . PACHMAN : Five times?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes . And that would be about the same amount of
time in ' 82e
MR. PACHMAN : In ' 82 you didn ' t recall .
DR. DAMIANOS :' Whatever times. that Michael stayed he would stay .
' 83 with the exception of September , he stayed many times at the
cottages - in ' 83 .
MR . PACHMAN : Who else?
DR. DAMIANOS: Except in September where he was not at the
cottages , he was going to school . Alexander Damianos .
MR. PACHMAN : I didn ' t have his name before .
DR. DAM.IANOS: ..Oh , yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Alexander Damianos .
DR, DAMI.ANOS: Yes . The same amount of time , almost as Jason ,
probably a few ti.mes. longer , he was older.
MR. PACHMAN : Is it possible--
DR. DAMIANOS: Mr. and Mrs . James Moran and son , Sean .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -49- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : And how many• times were they there .
DR . DAMIANOS : Mr . and Mrs . James Moran and son , Sean , in ' 80
a few times., ' 81 several times , in ' 82 they spent and ' 83 at least
a week vacation out there .
MR. PACHMAN : And they' re the ones who would take the camping
equipment , right?
DR. DAMIANO.S: No . Mr. Moran stayed with his family during
those periods of time and ' he also kind of oversee my boys while
they were out there , so he was also there but he came with camping
equipment and he stayed in ::the cabins as well .
MR . PACHMAN: Without electricity .
DR. DAMIANOS: Of course . They love it .
MR. PACHMAN : And they flushed the toilets in the same fashion?
DR. DAMIANOS: Oh they were wonderful . They went to work
every morning and used to park at the vineyard . ' They arrived home
at 7 : 00 o ' clock at night. They took a good swim in there . They
fished. They had a wonderful time . They sang campfire songs they
ffiked,; ;:they.:went , to., bed and they woke up at 6 : 00 , they stayed. Also ,
_do you want more names., counsellor?
MR. PACHMAN : Well --
DR. DAMIANOS: Let me go on then . K. J . Moran , also worked at
the. vineyard . About, the same amount of time as Mick Duvaney in
that ' 81 , ' 82 , ' 83. Jean Steele only in ' 82 and ' 83 , the same
amount of .time as. my _s.ons . Kirk Kelly , better known as Scoop Kelly , ,
about the same amount of time as Mick Duvaney and K. J . Moran .
Carlucci in 1980 on a few occasions , ' 81 , ' 82 , and - ' 82 , not ' 83
for Carlucci... Would you like more?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes , if you have them.
DR. DAMIANOS: Denis Murphy. Denis is 1980 , ' 81 , ' 82 and not
in ' 83 . My.:.nephew- T . J . Loucoupolous L-O-U-C-O-U-P-0-L-0-U-S, a
little less than when_ my. sons were there.
MR. PACHMAN : Doctor , did you use any information to refresh.
your recollection as to the dates and the time these people went
out and visited the premises?
DR. DAMIANOS: I don ' t understand the question , counsellor.
MR. PACHMAN : We11 , did you , when you ever used these premises
and without' your employees , did' you have some kind of a roster , some
kind . of ,a book , some. kind of a ledger , some kind of a guest book
that would indicate who .was . going tb._.be there that week and so you
wouldn ' t. have conflicts . I mean , is there some kind of a memoranda
' Southold- Town. Board of .Appeals -50- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN (continued) :
that you maintain in an effort to identify who was going to be out there
on those dates , and which cabins they would be , so there wouldn '.t be a
conflict. You had these rules and regulations , so I assume you had some
kind of mechanism in which to ascertain. who was going to use it , what
weekend , what dates , and which cabin . How did you do that?
DR. DAMIANOS : Well , what we did , counsellor , at our vineyards
was play moveable cabins , and after work., one of the men would go out-
most of them would go out to take a quick swim after working hard in
the fields .
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , that' s important. There ' s a difference between
living in a cabin and swimming : I want to know the people Viho :were
living there as opposed to those who ,:were just using the beach for swim-
ming .
DR. DAMIANOS: I ' m- trying to explain your question .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok.
DR. DAMIANOS: That since we were in such close proximity , what-
ever cabin was available for the boys that night , they would take .
MR. PACHMAN : Was there ever an occasion that there were no
cabins available?
DR. DAMIANOS : I don ' t recall .
MR . RACHMAN : So if I. made some; it would appear-
MR. ESSEKS: Howard , you asked a question about : a- l.edger , and the
witness started to answer it. '
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , I wish he would tell me about the ledger. I ' m
glad you reminded me . Let ' s hear about the ledger.
DR. DAMIANOS : I didn ' t say I had a ledger.
MR. PACHMAN : I thought Mr. --
MR. ESSEKS: You asked about a ledger .
MR. PACHMAN : I ' d like to know if he maintained one?
DR. DAMIANOS: I explained how we maintained our ledger .
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , so...there was no ledger.
DR. DAMIANOS: It was called moveable cabins . .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . So he answered the question . Ok. You wanted
him to reiterate the answer?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -51 - July 26 , 198-+ Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ART HUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/AB'BOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: I just wanted to make sure all your questions were
answered .
MR. PACHMAN : I want to be sure they are also.
DR. DAMIANOS : What I failed to mention is my use of the cabins
also during these periods of time .
MR. PACHMAN.: You used them also , Doctor?
DR. DAMIANOS: I certainly did®
MR. PACHMAN : Do you recollect the dates t.hat you used the cabins?
DR. DAMIANOS: Well , I can _tell you probably two. days of the
week that would be more likely , and one would be Thursday which is my
day off and I_'m out here , and it. would have_ to be on a Friday , Saturday
or Sunday. That' s generally if I take a weekend off that ' s the time I
would be out here . . But never on Monday . and never on Tuesday.
MR. PACHMAN : During the times that you were out there , did you
have occasion to see your neighbors?
DR. DAMIANOS: Yes . I met Mr. Gullackson .on a few occasions .
I recall the last time I met Mr. GuIlackson was in the Spring of 1983
in which .I came down to the property which James Moran and. Michael
Duvaney and we .were looking the cabns , over to . see whatiikind of winter
damage had taken place , and what we had .to do . Mr. Gullackson followed
me all over and said , "What are you going to do . What are you . going
to do , what are you going to do?" I said , "Well ; you know, pain.t. a
little bit and , you .know, pound a few nails in , and do the best we can . "
We had some damage therefrom the elements . But that was the last time
I met Mr.. Duvaney--rather Mr. Gullackson , and I remember , I recall
meeting a Reverend , and I don ' t remember the Reverend ' s .name , but he ' s
a retired Methodist . minister, whom I .met in Smithtown General Hospital .
He was a local. minister in our community , and he was apparently visiting
some of his parishioners and we discussed Green Acres , . very amicably ,
and I didn ' t . think we had any problem at that time. I ' m sure that. the
Reverend would have told me if there. w.as . He certainly knew where to
get ahold of. me .
MR . PACHMAN : Well , I don ' t think-..anyo,ne was going to say
anythi,pg:.about ;.the.-,p.roblems since they. were not ( . ), but let ' s get to
. the Cabin No. 1 , which is the most.._easterly cabin . " Do you recall
placing any curtains in that cabin?
`DR . DAMIANOS : I recall there was. some really moth-eaten
curtains , which were facing. the Gullacksons , and I ' m not certain , -.but
I think there were some terrible. moth-eaten ones there which-
MR. PACHMAN : Did you put. them up?
, Southold Town Board of Appeals -52- July 26 , 196,+ Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS : I don ' t recall .
MR . PACHMAN : Do you know if the Gullacksons put it up?
DR. DAMIANOS: I really don ' t recall . I assume that people who
went out to the cabins did put. the curtains up .
MR. PACHMAN : Do you recall any part of that cabin being painted
before this condition--
DR. DAMIANOS: Mr. Gullackson painted the west end of the cabin
without permission . I told him I appreciated his painting the cabin _
inasmuch . as it faced him completely and I guess he must have felt that
some of the peeling paint may not; have been too aesthetic for him , so
he took it upon. himself to trespass my property and paint the wall . He
also put up a fence there and he also put up some shrubbery there , and
I thanked him profusely for his efforts , and I offered to also pay him
for the paint . .
MR . PACHMAN : Did he indicate to you why he painted it?
DR. DAMIANOS: No . He just painted it.
MR. PACHMAN : Are many of these people who , obviously your sons ,
are they here tonight?
DR. DAMIANOS: No , they ' re not.
MR. PACHMAN : Are any of the other people you mentioned;1here
tonight?
DR . DAMIANOS : No . '
MR . PACHMAN : Are , any of these people still in your employ?
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Could you tell me , sir , why and when you applied
for the Certificate of Existing Nonconforming Use from the Town of
Southold?
DR. DAMIANOS: I ' m not familiar with the details of applying
for that , but apparently my attorney in the terms of closing on the
property had to., get certain documents in order for him to close , and
I allowed him to handle those matters .
MR. PACHMAN : Was there a condition in the contract to establish
that these cabins could be used for,- the uses previously stated?
DR. DAMIANOS : I ' m not certain , sir.
MR. PACHMAN : You don ' t know if you don ' t know.
, Southold Town Board of Appeals -53- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : Sir , I looked at a copy of your affidavit , section
five , Sir , and would you please read that and read it .aloud?
DR. DAMIANOS: A ledger has been maintained at the adult home
to coordinate the use of the cottages by the employees and friends :
We have not been able to locate the ledger .
MR. PACHMAN : . Do you know when the last time the ledger was seen?
DR. DAMIANOS: No , I don ' t recall .
MR. PACHMAN : Do you know how long it was in use?
MR. PACHMAN . o.LTo your best recollection .
DR. DAMIANOS : What occurred with the ledger is that initially
one of our recreation directors kept the ledger so that you could
coordinate the various weekend as per the rules and. regulations . Her
name is Mrs . Roberts ; she ' s presently in California., otherwise I11m
sure she would be here at the meeting . She , kept the ledger in peak
periods of timeain order to coordinate .the employee use . After awhile
I imagine she felt it was not necessary to .:do that . That ' s just a
supposition on my part, and that it , co.uld be handled on a one-to-one
verbal basis .
MR. PACHMAN : When did she leave your employ?
DR. DAMIANOS: If you ' ll allow me a moment ; I ' ll get the time .
Approximately five years, ago.
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . So that may have been the last time the
ledger wa.s . kept. .
DR. DAMIANOS : It ' s. quite possible .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . So but during the years ' 81 , ' 82 and ' 83
no ledger was kept .
MR . ESSEKS : Are you asking him or are you telling him?
MR. PACHMAN : I ' m asking him. Were there ledgers kept with
' 81 , ' 82 ; ' 83?
MR . ESSEKS: I could even tell if it was a question or a statement.
Because I didn ' t see you take the oath .
MR . CHAIRMAN: He ' s still in effect from . the last time .
DR. DAMIANOS: Your question?
MR. PACHMAN : Read it back to me .
Southold Town Board of Appeals _54- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MS . GERARDI , stenographer for Mr . Pachman : That during the
years 1981 , 1982 ,. and 1983 no ledger was kept. Was a ].edger kept in
19813 ' 82 and ' 83?
DR. DAMIANOS : No , I don ' t believe so .
MR . PACHMAN : And no record of who was there and when those
people were there . It wasn ' t kept in . any written form?
fi
DR. DAMIANOS: No , not in any written form. ,
MR. PACHMAN : ' And this is only your best recollection?
DR. DAM.IANOS : That ' s. correct , Counsellor.
MR. PACHMAN : I have no further points .
MR. CHAIRMAN : . Doctor. , could I ask you one .question . The
thing that confuses me concerning the property, and maybe you can
refresh my memory because , or you can answer the question , . it will
help me with my problem..of this particular parcel . When we began to
look at the parcel , it was my understanding the area where you would
park- was severely,* overgrown . I ' ll show you a picture which . I had .
taken , and I believe was one of the first pictures. I think that ' s
cottage No . 1 . After you had , there had been some work done on the
property , I would assume machinery had been brought in and this is
a picture with-- I ' m sorry to make.. you come ford-- .cesspools and so on
and so forth as it presently exists so that it had probably been
placed in the ground at this particular time , ok? Where did these
people park? Where did they park their vehicles , were they parked up
in the area of the main house?
DR. DAMtANOS: There were three areas in which the vehicles
were parked. NumbEr one , coming down the road there is a cut in , a
small little back road , it ' s overgrown , where cars were parked.
P1ace::No . .2 , as you come down , front of one .of_.the houses is another
area in which you could come in . The difficulty this past year
because of the. storms . and the runoff is that the . place . where we
normally parked regular passenger cars had to go over a bit of a
gulley down into the cabins which was very difficult . We at the
vineyard would always bring our truck , which was a 4-wheel drive ,
and we went right into it , - so there was no problem. . But my car we ' d
have difficulty getting in there , and where I would park would be
way up into a cut-in and just pull the car right off of the road .
We . had tremendous--they did something , something happened with that
road , and we had bulldozed that area to get the beautiful parking
area back in ' 74 , ' 75 , and we were getting adequate drainage . As a
matter of fact , I brought one of my engineers out and one of my
cement people out , and I had the tractor people out to take a look
at that and what we could do .
MR. CHAIRMAN : You ' re referring to the area in back of the
cabin--
DR. DAMIANOS : Yes , that little gulley area which makes it
difficult for a car to come down and in to , but we would use a large
Southold Town Board of Appeals -55- July 26 , 19u4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
DR. DAMIANOS (continued ) :
truck . The men would generally come down with large trucks and
packed their jerry cans and everything in there . That ' s the way we
got to the property.
MR . CHAIRMAN : Thank. you , Doctor.
DR. DAMI.ANOS : You ' re welcome .
MR. ESSEKS.:.:.- :. Kathryn Krejci ? I can ' t pronounce your name--
MS . KREJCI : That' s close enough .
MR . ESSEKS: When you take the oath , stand by the microphone?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Will you raise your right hand please? (Ms . Krejci
raised her right hand . ) Do you solemnly swear that the . testimo.ny that you
are about to give during this hearing is the truth , the whole truth , and
nothing but the truth?
KATHRYN KREJCI : Yes .
MS . GERARDI : How do you spell your name?
MS . KREJCI : Kathryn . K-A-T-H-R-Y-N Krejci K-R-E-J-C- I .
MR . ESSEKS: I ' ll show you this affidavit , is that a xerox copy
of your signature?
MS . KREJCI : Yes , it is .
MR. ESSEKS: Are you employed at one of the nursing homes?
MS KREJCI : At the adult home , yes .
MR . ESSEKS: Sorry. And how long have you worked there?
MS. KREJCI : I worked for the nursing home from ' 73 to ' 80 , and
then I went to the adult home from ' 80 to the present time .
MR. ESSEKS: And this place called Green Acres , do you know where
we ' re talking about?
MS . KREJCI: Oh , yes .
MR. ESSEKS: Have you visited it from time to time?
MS . KREJCI : I didn ' t in the beginning when groups of people were
going out , but in the past few years , I did go .
MR. ESSEKS: And .would you describe to the members of the board
.Southold Town Board of Appeals -56- July 26 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR .R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS (continued) :
and the audience the extent to which you and/or members of your family
occupied one or more cottages at. different times?
MRS . KREJCI : I had gotten my ' new job in 1980 . It was the Fall .
I worked the year after that. I handled a lot of things for my
employers of that deal out east , one is the, vineyard and a few . other
things . It was the following Summer , I guess that' s Summer - of ' 81
and the Summer of ' 82 , for both my birthday weekends , it was offeredd
for. me to go out_ a.nd I did. It was very , very rustic . My husband
and I have a motorcyc1b, that we use on the weekends . It was just the
two of us . We came'- out. I only used it to sleep in . I didn ' t really
spend the day or use the area . . I really just slept there . It didn ' t
.really have too many -
MR. ESSEKS: On how many occasions did you sleep overnight - at
the cottages? r
MRS . KREJCI : It was twice . It was my birthday weekend both
years , one night .
MR. ESSEKS : Do you have friends or associates in your similar
employment with the same.- employers , and to your knowledge went out
there in the last five years . and stayed overnight?
MRS . :.KREJCI : Within the last five years? Yeah , they ' ve
spoken about it--a few parties--
MR. ESSEKS: No other questions . Howard?
MR. PACHMAN : Did you do any cooking there?
MRS...`::KREJCI : Oh ,. no . No . I did not.
MR. PACHMAN : Was there a stove with the gas?
MRS . KREJCI : I believe there was a little kitchen set up , but
I did not cook .
MR. PACHMAN : Did it work? .
MRS . KREJCI : I did not cook.
MR.. PACHMAN: Did you use the toilet facilities?
MRS . KREJCI : No , I did not.
MR. PACHMAN : What would you describe the condition of the cabin
that you thought as it being in?
MRS . KREJCI : I would say rundown .
MR. PACHMAN : Rundown . Was it clean or maintai.ned in .any fashion?
MRS . KREJCI : Yes .. It was . I wouldn ' t say that it was-- it
wasn ' t dirty. There wasn ' t debris or anything and by no means were they
0
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -57- July 26 , 1904 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MRS . KREJCI (continued ):
a hotel room.
MR. PACHMAN : Well , was it a shack?
MRS . KREJCI : No . I don ' t think so.
MR. PACHMAN : Well give me some better descriptive term how you
would describe it .
MRS . KREJCI : Ok . No electricity. It was rustic . It was , I
think I .remember _ some shingles down on one--
MR . PACHMAN : The night you were there?
MRS . KREJCI : No . I don ' t believe so .
MR. PACHMAN : Do you know if the roof leaked?
MRS. KREJCI : I don ' t-- it rained.
MR. PACHMAN: Did you have a chance to look at the other
cottages?
MRS. KREJCI : No I did not. We picked the one we came right
down to .
MR. PACHMAN : You had a choice of any one you wanted?
MRS . KREJCI : Oh , yes .
MR. PACHMAN : SQ/ Qu : C418k one , two , three or four?
Is there any reason you picked, four?
MRS . KREJCI : It was the closest .
MR. PACHMAN : The closest to what?
MRS . KREJCI.: We came right down on the bike and remember it
being very steep and we had passed the big house , and it was the
closest.
MR . PACHMAN : To that big house .
MRS. KREJCI : When we came directly down .
MR. PACHMAN : What was the condition of the big house?
MRS . KREJCI : I don ' t remember?
MR . PACHMAN : Was it occupied?
Southold. Town Board of Appeals -58- July 26 , 198,+ Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MRS . KREJCI : Not when I was there , no .
MR. PACHMAN : Did you go through it?
MRS . KREJCI : No , I did not.
MR. PACHMAN : And you didn ' t go through th,e ' other cabins?
MRS . KREJCI : No , I did not .
MR . PACHMAN : And you were not able to ascertain whether they
were used at all ?
MRS . KREJCI : They weren ' t used the weekend I was there .
MR. PACHMAN : And you don '.t know why your observing or viewing
the cabin , .. whether they were used at all ?
MRS . KREJCI : They could have been .
MR. PACHMAN : And they could not have been also .
MRS . KREJCI : Could not have been .
MR. PACHMAN : No further questions .
MRS . KREJCI.: Thank you .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Thank you .
MR . ESSEKS: I handed up last month I guess it was an affidavit
from Elva M. Deiderick and Raymond Deiderick , and I had a supplemental
affidavit dated July 3 , 1984 . I don ' t have a copy . I forgot . , I ' m
sorry. I ' d like to offer it . If I may , I ' ll read it in first .
" . . . State of.. Pennsylvania , County of Lancaster : Elva M. Deidrick and
Raymond Deidrick , being duly sworn , depose and say that this affidavit
is made to supplement the affidavit sworn to on the 17th day of May , 1984 ;
2 . For each of the years 1953 through 1973 , when my . husband and I sold
the property in question , we did lease each of the four cottages on the
property for some portion of .the summer season ; and . each cottage was
rented for at least several weeks of each summer season . . . . "
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you .
MR. ESSEKS : That ' s all I have . If you ' ll give me just a moment ,
I ' d like ' to inquire-- I want to . make a statement'. The Doctor is not a
client of mine .
MR. PACHMAN : I apologize .
— MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Pachman , do you have anything that you would
like to add?
e s
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -59- July 26 , 1984 kegular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : Yes , I ' d like to do one thing if I may . I see
Mr. Beebe is back here . today and I see Miss Swanson . is here . I would
ap2preciate , I would like to examine both those people , and I ' d like
one of them not to be . present while the other one is testifying , if
you don ' t mind.
MR. ESSEKS: I don:'.t: know of any basis for excluding one .
MR. PACHMAN : I ' m asking you . I ' m asking you that.. it,.be done .
MR. ESSEKS: If it ' s. done--the Chairman will do what he sees
fit , but it will not be with my consent. _
MR. CHAIRMAN : I think it ' s a discussion that we ' ll have at
this particular time. So we ' ll take a fast recess .
MR. PACHMAN : Thank you .
On motion by Mr. Douglass , seconded by Mr . Goehringer , it was
RESOLVED to recess temporarily for approximately five minutes ,
at which time the hearing will be :reconvened. ..
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by . all the members . The meeting was recessed at 10 : 33�. p .m.
MEETING.'RECONVENEDiI On motion by Mr . Douglass , seconded by
Mr . Goehringer , it was
RESOLVED to reconvene the regular meeting and proceed with the
hearing in the matter of TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/. SWANSON, Appeal No . 3234.
The meeting reconvened at 10 :44 p .m.
. .Vote of the, Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , . Douglass and Sawicki. This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
MR. PACHMAN: I asked the chair for a ruling , .and Mr . Esseks
objected to it. - I don ' t. know what the board decided.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well , we go by past precedents , and although I ' m
not the most wisdomatic person on this board , there are two gentlemen
sitting to the left of .me that have been on this board for some 23-24
years-- , 27 . And.:to their knowledge no one , of course , . this is not a
. court of law; no one has ever been asked to leave the room.
MR. PACHMAN: I .accept .:the Chair ' s ruling which I presume is "No . "
MR. CHAIRMAN : Correct .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -60- July 26 , 19u4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN : I would like to call Mr . Beebe. Mr . Beebe , the
last time-- he was sworn before , I presume he ' s still under oath .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Did he testify the last time? I don ' t believe
he testified . I ` must apologize .
WILLIAM M. BEEBE: William. B . Beebe . B-E-E-B-E.
MR . PACHMAN : Mr . Beebe , I think when you were last here ,
you testified that you are a contractor-builder.. who was doing work
in and about the premises known as Green Acres , am I correct, sir?
MR. BEEBE: That ' s right.
MR. PACHMAN : And you indicated that the work that you-.-were
performing . on behalf of Swanson and Abbott was on a time and materials '
basis?
MR. BEEBE : I don ' t know if I said that or not . You asked me
if I was getting paid. I was getting paid as a contractor .
MR. PACHMAN : All right . And you said there was no written
contract?
MR. BEEBE : No .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok , sir . . Have you completed all your work?
MR. BEEBE: No .
MR. PACHMAN : But how much work have yo.0 completed to date?
MR. BEEBE: On what?
MR. PACHMAN : Well , let ' s take the house . The main house . Can
you estimate the total amount of work . that you performed in dollars?
MR. BEEBE: I thought this meeting was for the four bungalows ,
not the house .
MR. ESSEKS: I object to the question . I fail to see its
relevance . I don ' t want to kill the whole evening . .
MR . PACHMAN: Well , if you would like to know the relevance ,
I will tell you the relevance.
MR. CHAIRMAN : . By the way, .let me just reiterate , gentlemen ,
that we have broken the ground rules here all night. All right. If
you ' ll remember the discourse that you had with Dr. Damianos and the
Doctor who was not your client , ok , all those statements should have
been projected to the board. Ok.
Southold Town Board of --,peals -61 - July 26 , 19 Regular Meeting
. (Appeal No . 3234. - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: We get too esthusiastic and I apologize .
MR. CHAIRMAN : As long as the recorders could take the information
down is what I was mainly interested in . So , I would ask you please--
MR. PACHMAN : Mr . Chairman , I understand there ' s an objection to
the present one . I would like to draw the board ' s attention to Section
100-, Sub.division 121 (C ) , wrong section , excuse me--100-118 , Nonconform-
ing Uses , Subdivision ( E) . And it says and I ' ll quote.- it ,
" . . .A nonconforming building may not be reconstructed or structurally
altered during its life. to an extent exceeding in aggregate cost .
50% of the fair value of the building , unless the use of such build-
ing is changed to a conforming use . . . . "
So therefore I have objected on several grounds , as to the use of this
building . One , that it hadn ' t been used for a period fo two years ,
which was, Section (D) of that , and now I would like to get into the
testimony of Mr . Beebe and possibly others as to the cost of the
improvements that were made . to see if they will exceed 50% of the value ,
because if they ,don ' t , even i-f you assumed that the property was con-
tinuously used , which I ' ll argue at another date for that period of
two years , I think there was a violation because the value may have
exceeded 50% of the value which would provide for the reconstruction .
MR. ESSEKS : Mr. Chairman , before he gets into that, I would ask
you to consider that it be --the petition of Mr . Truckenbrodt where he
claims that the Certificate issued by the Building Inspector , our
zoning administrator ,-. was incorrect , and also I believe it ' s the burden
of the owners , Mr. Truckenbrodt and his cohorts that it '. s up to them
to show this ' is a nonconforming build.i.ng ; and I don ' t believe there ' s
anything in the evidence to show that it is a nonconforming building .
I believe that you and the other members of the board know that a
nonconforming building is a building such as a house in a commercial
district or a commercial structure in a ,residential district . A
building designed and only usable for a use not permitted in that
district. The only testimony for two days and tonight is that this is
a cottage , a residential cottage situate , at the property zoned for
residential purposes . I fail to see how --that' s there is any showing
that this is a nonconforming , a nonconforming use . You haven ' t proven
that yet . He ' s assumed that conclusion . So I fail to see how the
testimony being elicited is germane . If you ' re going to allow it ,
fine , but you take it subject to connection subject to his showing
that. the property in fact is a nonconforming use .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Just briefly , Mr . Esseks , we would also consider ,
or I would also consider , I ' m not answering for the other five board
members of this board , that a building , we . won ' t call it a dwelling , ok ,
that does , not meet the 850 square. foot requirement could be construed
to be a nonconforming dwelling-- I ' m sorry-structure .
MR . ESSEKS: But , Mr . Chairman , I believe the section--do you want
to give me the section , Howard?
MR. PACHMAN : The one I was just referring to , nonconforming uses ,
100-118 . And that ' s on page 10053 .
r * '
Southold Town Board of Appeals -62- July 26 , 198,+ Regular_ Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: That section is entitled , Mr . Chairman , 100-118 , Noncon-
forming Uses . It doesn ' t say nonconforming structure . It doesn ' t say
nonconforming as to area . It.. doesn ' t say nonconforming ,as to the size
of the lot . It doesn ' t say nonconforming as to setbacks and sideyards .
It sa.ys , ` nonconf.or.ming uses , and I believe the word "uses" is a word of
art in the law of zoning . As you know , you have use variances and you
have . area variances . And I ' m going to stick to my guns that there ' s no
suggestion of nonconforming use .
MR . CHAIRMAN : How far are you going to go into this?
MR. PACHMAN : Well , Mr . Chairman , I ' assume that the board is going
to take judicial notice of its own ordinance and that the zoning of this
particular section does not permit hotels , motels , tourist camps , or
cabins of this nature . And if that ' s the present zoning ordinance , and I ' m
pretty sure that you will take notice to that effect, then the use of
these cottages can only exist if they were nonconforming uses . I don ' t
have to prove the self-evident what the ordinance says and what these
buildings are . They are obviously not in-'.the present zoning classifica-
tion in their use . And I don ' t suggest that Mr. Esseks is saying they
are . Or are you?
MR . ESSEKS: I ' m suggesting--
MR. PACHMAN : I ' m asking you a question , Sir? Are you claiming that
. this use of this property is,.within the present zoning classification?
MR. ESSEKS: Yes .
MR . PACHMAN : You are?
MR. ESSEKS : Yes .
MR. . PACHMAN : Will you show me the section?
MR . ESSEKS : These are-- I submitted that in the Town of Southold ,
that ' s where we are tonight. I get confused some . n.i.ghts . You may rent
your house by the week and you may rent your house by the month and you
may rent your house by the' year or by the five years , And if I ' m in . the
wrong town to say that , I ' ll stand corrected , but I don ' t think I am.
MR. PACHMAN : That ' s not the issue , Mr . Esseks . We ' re not renting
one house,. We are saying whether this main building and the subsidiary
satellite buildings!� iwhich are cabins or cottages and the definition is
the ..ordinance , which self-supplies in itself says that a tourist cottage
is a detached building having - less than 350 . square feet of cross-sectional
area , designed,. for or. occupied a's.-a living and sleeping quarters for
seasonal occupancy.
MR. ESSEKS: It ' s not less than 350 square feet .
MR . PACHMAN : Is this seasonal occupancy?
a '
Southold Town Board of Appeals -63- July 26 , 1yt54 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , . continued : )
MR. ESSEKS : You can have a house that ' s seasonal occupancy-- If this
was less than 350 feet, it might fall within that definition . But it doesn ' t .
MR. PACHMAN : I ' ll stand on the ordinance that this is a nonconforming .
MR . ESSEKS: We ' re all going to stand on the ordinance .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . And I would hope that the board will take judicial
notice of its own,. ordinance as to whether this is .a hotel , . motel , or a
tourist camp or anything else other than a permanent dwelling or a dwelling
which is defined in the ordinance as a dwelling .
MR . CHAIRMAN : By the nature of the fact that it was a determination
done by the Building Inspector which is of course probably the reason
why we ' re here , ok--
MR. PACHMAN : That it is a nonconforming use .
MR . CHAIRMAN : No . I ' m about ready to direct that question to Mr.
Lessard .
MR. PACHMAN : Hi.s certificate so states it .
MR. CHAIRMAN : What ' s your opinion?
VICTOR LESSARD , BUILDING ADMINISTRATOR: First off, this property is
in an A-Zone , which is residential . Ok . The main house is a one-family
dwelling , ok . In a residential zone , you ' re allowed to reside . The
nonconformity is , under Article III , Section 100-30 where there it says
that you ' re allowed one dwelling on the property . The nonconformity is
because of the fact that there are four cabins there that were preexisting .
The fact that people lived there , that ' s what they ' re allo.weddto do in a
residential zone . . The main house is the one dwelling. That is a conform-
ing use in a residential zone .
MR. CHAIRMAN : So in other words , you ' re saying that the one house
on the ten acres, or whatever. the--
MR. LESSARD : The law doesn ' t specify acreage . You ' re allowed one
dwelling on a piece of property under 100730 (B ) I believe . The fact
that you have four cabins there , that is the nonconforming condition .
The fact that peopl:e ..Tived there , that ' s conforming .
MR . PACHMAN : That is jibberish .
MR. LESSARD: That ' s the law , Sir .
MR. PACHMAN : You construe , you can see that the four cabins make
it a nonconforming use and you gave a certificate to that effect. I
don ' t care. what the basis of its nonconformity is . If it was abandoned
for a period of two years , it ' s nonconforming .
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -64- July 26 , 1964 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: Either purposefully or otherwise ; Mr . Pachman fails
to realize that nonconformity can be use and it can be as to number of
residential units on a piece of land . And it ' s very difficult to argue
with the fact that the cottages are residential , no-ohe has ever pre.sented
it to the contrary. It ' s also very difficult to argue with the fact that
there are five residential structures on one piee of land , and therefore
to the extent that they ' re violating the density and setback rules of the
Town of Southold , they- are nonconforming . But not as to use . They ' re
nonconforming as to acreage and setbacks , and I submit and I ' m not
testifying that that is manifestly self-evident and I don ' t know why
we ' d really want to spend a great amount of time arguing about it. _And that
I believe ;.tips:; the basis of the issuance of the certificate. . I believe
that .if you had a house on . an eight-acre' lot in this Town , it would also
be nonconforming as to density--the coverage I mean , and as to setbacks
and as to the size of the lot , But because of single and separate you .
would do that . That ' s not our situation . And I think you shouldn ' t try
to confuse the issue .
MR. CHAIRMAN : At what point--excuse me just one second--at one point
are you objecting? Well , I know what you ' re objecting to--
.:MR . ESSEKS : If this were a nonconforming use , if we had a
restaurant in a residential district , you would be covered under that
section as to value and cost for repairs , and _ if you wanted to exceed
it we ' d have to come to you and get . a variance . The reason being in
this Town , special permission for that-- I can ' t remember . But that ' s
not our situation. So I believe you can take that testimony-.-it will
be irrelevant to the issue_ before the board .
MR. PACHMAN : Mr. Chairman , Members of the Board , you ' re own ordi -
nance ' defines -what a nonconforming use is , .and the lies , the arguments ,
that Mr . Esseks . has made and .. Mr. . Lessard is ahnonconforming use is
defined as ;;."Any."use , whether - of a building or tract of land , or both ,
existing on the effective date of this . chapter , which does not conform
to the use regulations of the district in which it is located. "
MR. ESSEKS : I absolutely agree .. .
MR. PACHMAN : And the use regulations include not, only the type of
use as to -multiple use or single use or setbacks and everything else ,
that ' s all in your use regulations .
MR . ESSEKS: I submit that that ' s not correct .
MR. PACHMAN : But that' s. what it says .
MR. ESSEKS: '.'Use" as:.to bus,iiness ,'�' commercial , and so on .
MR. PACHMAN : Use talks about buildings , size , coverage , sideyards ,
rearyards , frontyards , everything is use ; and if it violates the use by
your very definition , it is . in violation of your ordinance and it ' s
nonconforming . And there would be no other reason by the very fact that
, Southold Town Board of Appeals -65- July 26 , 198-4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN (continued ) :
the Building Inspector issued a Certificate of Nonconforming Use that he
as the interpreter of the ordinance indicated . that it ..was nonconforming .
MR. CHAIRMAN : You know, gentlemen , you ' re forcing me at this
particular point to basically recess this hearing for another meeting
because you ' re getting into _a situation here where you ' re referring-
this is an area that the Town Attorney should be dealing with , and .
unfortunately , he is not with us tonight . So , you know. You ' re
going to have to tell me how you are going to resolve this , or else
we ' re going to have , to recess it at this particular point .
MR. ESSEKS : I have no trouble with a recess . I vote for a recess ,
but I ' m not even suggesting that you not recess to consult with your
counsel , but I have . before . me a believe a copy of .the . Certificate of
Occupancy and it says "Certificate of Occupancy , Nonconforming Premises . "
And then it says this stuff that my client owns does not conform to the
present zoning , code of the . Town of. Southold for the following reasons :
"a lot with a . dwelling and four cottages . " It doesn ' t say that it
violates the use . . . It says that a Certificate of Occupancy , Nonconforming
Premises , and I submit that I am correct as to my interpretation of the
law , but you shouldn ' t hear what I have to say or hear about what I
have to say , you should hear what Mr . Tasker says .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you object to a recess , Mr . Pachman?
MR. PACHMAN : I don ' t. object to a recess . If this is an issue
which - this board can consider as not an appeal from a nonconforming use
based on the interpretation of the building inspector , which I have
been actually appealing., and that ' s why we ' re here today , as to the
definition , now the. definition as. I : said , .;a nonconforming use , then
we shouldn ' t be here and there should be no work being done here at all
because it ' s totally without merit what they ' re doing . Secondly , we ' re
also objecting to the fact that there ' s reconstructing , altering and
various other . things being done in and about the premises ..without a
Certificate-=or.' per.mit , or a Certificate of Occupancy . And that has
not been responded ..'to or answered in any way , nor has anything been
applied for. .. I think it' s. so self-evident what we ' re talking about ,
if this board has any doubt in its mind , I ' ll come back again and go
.over this issue and argue it with the Town Attorney , or anyone else
you want to argue with .
MR. CHAIRMAN : ).You leave me with no choice at this particular time
to put a motion. before this board to recess this hearing until the
next regularly scheduled meeting . My major problem, gentlemen , is
that that .meeting is fully booked. " The Town is running 200% over
capacity at this particular time .
MEMBER SAWICKI : Mr. Chairman , may I make a suggestion? We
'could have it on a separate night, just this alone? How does that sound?
,, Southold Town Board of Appeals -66- July 26 , )`jo4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued :)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well , that' s-- we have to make the motion on that
basis though for the purpose of advertising , and--
MEMBER SAWICKI : Would you have to readvertise it again?
SECRETARY : Unless you have a date now. If you have a date you
shouldn ' t have to readvertise it.
MR. CHAIRMAN : We don ' t know what that date is at this particular
time , so we ' ll have to readvertise it.
MR. ESSEKS: Please don ' t make it on a Friday night . You don ' t
work Friday nights', ..do you?
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have , ok , at this particular time I.' ll offer a
motion to recess this .h.earing until August 23rd , 1984 , tentatively , in
hopes that it might be the only hearing on that particular evening ,
so it would be earlier and we ' ll deal with that issue-
MR. PACHMAN : I didn ' t get the date , Sir , I ' m sorry.
MR. CHAIRMAN :. August 23rd . Tentatively. A Thursday . Is that
all right with you , Mr. Pachman?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes. You did not set a time .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Seven or 7 : 30 at this particular time . 7 p .m.
MEMBER DOUGLASS : Are we going to start this first?
MR. CHAIRMAN : It ' s the only one we ' ll have .
SECRETARY : We could have a _. Regular Meeting two weeks after that.
MR. CHAIRMAN : All right. I ' ll call that motion , gentlemen .
On motion . by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Grigonis , it was
RESOLVED , to recess the hearing in the matter of Appeal No . 3234 ,
TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON until Thursday, AUGUST. 23 , 1984 at 7 :00
o'clock p .m:
Vote of the Board : _ Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution .was unanimously
adopted by ..all the members .
Following the hearing , Mr . Pachman corrected t'he. pronunciation
of Mr. Gullackson ' s name (not Gallockson ) , who was the predecessor
in title to Truckenbrodt . h-
,,Southold Town Board of Appeals -677 July 26 , 198-t Regular Meeting
The board discussed a tentative date for a Special Meeting to be
held at Fishers Island on Wednesday, August 8 , 1984, at approximately
1 : 30 p .m. The secretary will be advised as to an official notice
when defini-te .
Being there was no other business properly coming before the board
at this time , the Chairman declared the meeting adjourned at approxi -
mately 11 ; 1.5 o ' clock p .m.
Respectfully submitted ,
Linda F. Kowalski , Secretary
Southold Town Board of Appeals
,Verard P . Goe ringer Chairman
Approved 10/11 /'84
105:CEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTI-.OLD TOWN CLf13RIN
DATE HOUR
Town Clerk, Town of Southold
_. J
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
TFIE SOUTIICLD TOWN CLLBII�'
DATE/0 HOURS W PM
Town Clerk, Town of Southold