HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-06/21/1984 s y _
Southold Town Board of Appeals
• t' MAIN ROAD - STATE ROAD 25 SOUTHOLD, L.I., N.Y. 11971
TELEPHONE (516) 765-1809
APPEALS BOARD
MEMBERS
GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, CHAIRMAN
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.
SERGE DOYEN, JR.
ROBERT J. DOUGLASS
JOSEPH H. SAWICKI M I N U T E. S
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 21 , 1984
A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Board of Appeals was
held on Thursday , J'une 21 , 1984 at 7 : 30 o ' clock p .m. at the
Southold Town Hall , Main Road , Southold , New York .
Present were : Gerard P . Goehringer , . Chairman ; Serge Doyen ;
Charles Grigonis ; Joseph H. Sawicki ; Robert J . Douglass (arr.
8 :26 p .m. ) . Also present were Victor Lessard, Building Depart-
ment Administrator and approximately 3.5 persons in the audience .
The Chairman opened the meeting at 7 : 30 o ' clock p .m.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION : Appeal No. 3173 . Matter of MIRIAM
BATSON by David Kapell as agent concerning the Decision rendered
by this Board July 8 ,. 1982 . _Premises at East Marion , New York .
David Kapell met with the board briefly , requesting an
adjustment to the variance conditionally granted for a deck .
The problem revolved around an inaccuracy in the original
sketch provided by the builder in the application . The dimen-
sions on the side of the deck are different on the second floor
than they are on the first floor by 10 feet in length . The 42 '
deck that was approved would not allow access to the main door
which provides access into the house , said Mr . Kapell . Request
a 10 ' extension of the length for the second floor for access by
the existing stairs . No widening of the deck is proposed , nor
any other structural alteration . The original deck granted was
7 ' wi-de:.by 42 ' in length .
The Chairman said that the board will discuss this matter
and will notify Mr. Kapell of its decision .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -2- June 21 , iy84 Regular Meeting
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal - No . 3244 . Application - for 'JO.HN 'D.ENNY ,
333 Warwick '.Avenue.,, Tea. .Ne.ck,. NJ' . 07666 for a Vari-ance to the
Zoning Ordinance, -_Arti,cl e I I Z.,' Section .100-.32 for permission to
construct accessory garage building i n -.0.e1. f,rontyar.d area at
premises , 1255 Private. Road #1 '(Goose. Creek Lane.) ,, 'Southold, 'NY;
County Tax Map .Parcel No .. 1000-.078-08"009. __ . _..... ._._.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7 : 36 p..m. and read the
legal notice of .thi_s hearing, in its en.ti.rety: _and appeal 'application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I have a copy of .a survey pro.duced. 'by Roderick
VahTuyl May 15 ; 1965 and I have copy of the Suffolk Coun_ty. Tax Map
i ndi ca_ti ng,.. thi s and surroun:di ng :proper.ti es. i n _the .area. Mr.-
Stoutenburg , would you like ' to. .be. heard .in' b.e.half of .thi.s - applic.a-
tion?
PETER S.TO.UTENB.URG : Members of .the. board, I ' d, 1 i key,ou to be
aware Father sent apologies , but he had pre.vi_ou- en_gageme.nts due
to his__ position in New _Jersey . ,He ' s. .pla.n.n.ing on r.eairing into
this area and has lived her _for many ,,years :on a seasonal__ basi s
and was trying to _establish _what he needed in. .this area,, for full
time retirement , 'a garage was somethi'n'g.. that he, ,played wi.th an
awful lot . Origina_l.ly , 'they 'wore'. going to. try t-o. 1ocate their
garage_ closer to the_._water. We moved _i. t now as far from that
as we possibly can , and he ' s. just. looki.ng for, the -same thing that
his neighbors_-. have. I assume'. you _people......have inspected the_ site
and you noticed all the other ga'rages ,.... for the. most part right up
on the road , and _h_e held . it back as far . as he c.o.ul'd.__. He doesn ' t.
want to affect anyone ' s. view, let along his own..
MR. CHAIRMAN : All right, can' you give me some dimensions? .
The original survey submitted sketched. _it .95 '. .from. the road. Is
that the ap.pro.ximate"Aistance? '. _
MR. STO:UTENBURGH : He ' s. moved it in more . .
MR. CHAIRMAN : He moved it farther . Ok. H.ow .far would you say?
MR. STOUTENBURGH : At least, 100 , 'perhaps, 100+. Most of the
houses in here are even closer° We' .had. not rest.aked it. We moved
it into the pa.rki'ng '.area . it ' s. a' good.'.100 .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . On the size of ,the garage?
MR . STO.UT.ENBUGH : It' s. 24 ' 'by 24' ..
MR. CHAIRMAN: One-story?
MR . STO.UTENBURGH : Yes . The interior will be completely open .
MR. CHAIRMAN : No objection with the normal restriction that
it not be added to the house in any way and that it remain as a
storage bu.ilding?
�- Southold Town Board of Appeals -3- June 21 , iy64 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3244 - JOHN DENNY , continued : )
MR. STOUTENBURGH: Yes (agreeing ) .
MR. CHAIRMAN : And what about closeness to the property line .
MR. STOUTENBURGH : We ' re hoping to get the three feet .
MR . CHAIRMAN : The normal three feet . Ok . Thank you very much .
Is there anybody else that would like .to be heard in behalf of this
application? Anybody like to speak against the application? (None )
Questions from board members? (None ) Hearing no ,.further questions ,
I ' ll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until
later.
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Sawicki , it was
RESOLVED , to close the hearing and reserve decision in the
matter of the appli._cation of JOHN 'DENNY , Appeal No . 3244.
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , and Sawicki . (Member Douglass was absent at this time) .
This resolution was adopted by unanimous vote of the members present.
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3220 . Application of GEORGE R.
TUTHILL ,,.Box 719 , Cutchogue-,_ NY for a Variance to the . Zoning Ordi -
nance ,. Article III , Section 100.-31 for approval of insufficient
area and width of parcels located at. the north-_ side of Bay Avenue ,
Cutchogue , NY; Nassau Farms Subdivision , part of Lot 140 ; County
Tax Map Parcel No . 1000-104-04-33 .
The Chairman opened- the hearing at 7 : 43' p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and appeal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of a survey produced by VanTuyl
dated February 15 , 1984 indicating the house lot, which is not the
nature of the set-o.ff of 43 ,847 sq . ft . and the lot in question
( to be set-off) which is the nature of this -application , which is
24 ,020 sq . ft. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating this and surrounding properties in the area . Would
anybody like to . be heard in behalf of this application? Would you
like to say something , Mr. Tuthill ?
GEORGE R. TUTHILL : Is that against it ,, do you mean?
MR. CHAIRMAN : No . In favor of it.
MR. TUTHILL : I ' m in favor of it , of course . It ' s a case of
giving this ' lot off and giving it- to our daughter , .which she is
renti.ng now .and we would-,. like her to build a_ little house . That ' s
all I have to say .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you .
'y
Southold Town Board of Appeals -4- June 21 , -1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3220 - GEORGE R. TUTHILL , contin,ued : )
MR. TUTHILL : We have a map here and so forth .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I think we have a copy of, .that. Is that the one that ' s
February 15 , 1984?
MR. TUTHILL : Yes , yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes , we have a copy of that , thank you . Is there
Anybody else that would like to speak ..in behalf of the application?
Yes , ma ' am. Could you. state your , name , please?
MRS . E. BARNES : ( ) Barnes and my property adjoins the property.
The back .of my property joins the back of . the.ir property . And every-
body told me what a big place I have , and that one i.s supposed to be.
even bigger than mine . 5.0 why can ' t. they build?
MR. CHAIRMAN : We didn ' t turn them down . It was the building
department that turned them down . That ' s the reason why they.' re here .
Because there is two-acre zoning. now.
MRS. BARNES : It ' 11 be just like every other house around.
MR . TUTHILL : All .the adjoining lots are just about the same as
that one .
MRS . BARNES: Most of them are a 1.00 . 'This -is 117.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you very much . Is there anybody else that
would like to speak in behalf of .the application? Anybody like to
speak against the applicati-on? Questions from board _members? (None )
The board members briefly reviewed the file .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Hear". i.ng no further comments , I ' ll make a motion
granting this as applied for.
MEMBER GRIGONIS: Second .
(Continued on page 5 )
I
or
Southold Town Board of Appeals -5= June 21 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3220 - GEORGE R. TUTHILL , continued : )
The board made the following findings and determination :
By this .appeal , applicant seeks a variance to the provisions of
Article III , Section 100-31 , Bulk Schedule of the Zoning Code , for
approval of the proposed reduced lot area and width requirements , to
wit : Parcel A will contain a lot area of 43 ,847 sq .. ft. and a lot
width of approximately 220 feet; Parcel B, the westerly lot , will
contain a lot area of 24 ,020 sq . ft. and a lot .width along Bay
Avenue of 125 feet and along Lilac Lane of 193 .01 feet. Parcel A
is improved with a one-family, 12-story frame dwelling , an accessory
garage and small shed . Parcel B is vacant . - For the record it is
noted that the entire premises is part of "Plot B". as shown on the
March 28 , 1935 Subdivision Map of "Nassau Farms , " Map No . 1179 .
The board members have visited the premises in question and
are familiar with the neighborhood . The board has found that a
majority of the parcels in the immediate vicinity of these premises
are similar in size or smaller than that proposed by this applica- ,
tion . Also , in considering this appeal , the board. determines .
(a ) that the relief requested .is not substantial ; (b ) that by
the granting of the relief requested , no substantial change will .
be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a substantial
detriment to adjoining properties ; (c ) that the difficulty cannot
be obviated by some method feasible for the ' applicant to pursue
other than a variance ; (d) that no adverse effects will be
produced on available governmental facilities of any increased
population if the . variance is allowed ; (e ) , that the interests of
justice will be served by allowing the variance .
Accordingly , on motion by Mr. Goehringer , seconded by Mr.
Grigonis , it was
RESOLVED , that the application of GEORGE R. TUTHILL for
approval of insufficient area .and width of parcels , to wit :
43 ,847 sq . ft. area and 220 lot width , and 24 ,020 sq . ft. and
193 . 01 feet (125 along Bay Avenue ) , BE AND HEREBY IS APPROVED
AS APPLIED ' IN 'APPEAL NOo 3220 .
Location of Property : North Side of Bay Avenue; Nassau
Farms Subdivision , Part of Plot 140 ; Cutchogue , NY; County Tax
Map Parcel No. 1000-140-04-33 .
. Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer, Doyen ,
Grigonis , Douglass. and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -6- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3245 . Application for DAVID AND
JEANNE BRAWNER , Main Road , Orient , NY for a Variance to the Zoning
Ordinance , Article III , Section 100-31 for approval of insufficient
area of parcel to be from an _4..066-acre parcel at the South
Side of Main Road , Orient; County. Tax Map. Parcel No ... 1000-20-3-28
and part of 11 . 2 .
The. Chairman opened the hearing at 7 : 50 �.p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and appeal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of a map from Roderick VanTuyl
and Son drawn , ' prepared December _6., 1983 i_ndicating ' the nature of.
the two particular parcels to be set . off, with an area of 54 ,000
sq . ft. I also have a .copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating
this property .and the surrounding properties . Would you like to be
heard , Mr. Price?
IRVING L . PRICE , JR. , ESQ . : This was originally one parcel ,
and had some_ 560 feet of .road _frontage . Mr. 'an.d Mr.s.,. Brawner s.e.t
off some time prior to. 1977 , ' 2.14. 23 .fe_et and gave ' it_ to their
daughter and son-in-law_. on 'whi.ch to build a house . The original
house was there had _a C. O. The new house built prior to 1977 had
a C. O. and as the application " states it was landscaped , they were
landscaped as such . , .Two resulting parcels had a frontage then of
302 ' and 214 ' , and have an area of which to set it off of 2 . 345
acres for -the large parcel and 1 . 121 for the smdll p_a.r.ce_1 . The
reason the lines have been projected as they are is because
there ' s. lan_dscape . I understand the board has reviewed it and
there are lines of trees and a farm road on the southerly . When
the daughter and son-in-law moved away , they conveyed it back to
their father and mother ,, and then when. the _zoning _ordinance was
changed to the two acres , it became a merger of ,-the two legally
existing parcels . They applied for a vacant 1--and C .O . interpreta-
tion for the small parcel...,and am-. correctly told by the building
department that they have to get a set-off and then apply to the
Planning Board for a set-off,. ,and they_ we_re told that the .Planning
Board had no approval and I._ believe there ' s such a letter or deci -
sion Iin your file ; but that it- would require a variance .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want me to read it?
MR . PRICE : Well , I just wanted to be sure it was part of
the file . The .Planning Board is in favor of .this . That ' s our
case__. unless -you had an_y. questions .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Now , is there anyparticu,lar reason why they
chose to add this additional little parcel in the rear?
MR. PRICE : That ' s because there ' s a farm road that has been
used in time .
MR . CHAIRMAN : The farm road is here?
MR . PRICE : It ' s here .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -7- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3245 - DAVID AND JEANNE BRAWNER , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : I couldn ' t determine where it was when we went
out there .
MR. PRICE : It can ' t be added-that ' s the reason it can ' t be
added to it because it ' s a farm road there . ' And they don ' t want
a separate farm road.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I see .
MR . PRICE : And they don ' t. want it to run through a lot owned by
some third party.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I see . So in other words , what are they--they
are attempting ' to convey part of .this property now?
MR. PRICE : The small parcel .
MR. CHAIRMAN : The small parcel .
MR. PRICE : This is the one . Which is a. legitimate house with
a C.O.-
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes . So. they want this parcel to be as one unit
with the farm road?
MR. PRICE: Yes . Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Who has access to the farm road , they do?
MR. PRICE : It ' s. very informal . A lot of people use it and go
to adjo.ini.ng, lands as I understand it . And being.._neighborly, they
wouldn '. t. cut it off .to prevent something that' s...-been going. on for
years .
MR. CHAIRMAN : How big is that farm road .exactly?
MR. PRICE: How. wide is that farm road , Mr. Brawner? .
MR. B.RAWNER : What we ' re talking about, I think , is access to
the farm. The farmers immediately behind Mrs . Brawner and my house .
. The farm area is here . There ' s an irrigation pond here . And if we
went ,a11 the way down to - the irrigation pond , we. couldn ' t. come .in to
the right-of-way .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Oh , I see .
MR. B.RAWNER : My own personal driveway 'is quote narrow before
I put * one - in .
MR . CHAIRMAN : So in other words , they come like this .
MR'. B.RAWNER: Right. And then we extend down there to about 10
acres . You have Christmas trees in there , about 4 ,000 Christmas trees .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -8- June '21 , iy84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3245 - DAVID AND' JEANNE BRAWNER; continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . That answers the question . Thank you very
much.
MR. PRICE:. Thank you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there anybody else that would like to be heard
in behalf of this application? -_. Anybody like to speak-. against the
application? Questions from board.. members? •Hearing no further ques-
tions , I ' ll make a motion closing the hearing and reserv.i.ng .:decision
until later.
On_-moti.on:: by Mr. Goehringer , seconded by Mr. :Grigonis , it -was
RESOLVED , to close the. hearing and reserve decision in the
matter of the application of DAV_ID AND JEANNE 'BRAWNER,. Appeal No .
3245 .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen, and .Sawicki . Member Douglass was. absent during this time .
This resolution was unanimously- _adopted by all the members present.
PUBLfC HEARING : Appeal No. 3247 . Application of 'ERNE.ST AND
JEAN STUMPF, 207 Roxbury_ Road South , ' Garden. ,City , NY .11530 , for a
Variance , to the Zoning _Ordinance , Article III , _Section. 100-32
(and/or Section 100-31 ) for permission to construct rai-sed, deck
with an insufficient setback _ in the side and rear yards at the
West Side of . S. Oakwood Drive , Laurel ; County Tax_. Map Parcel No.
1000-145-03-005.
The :Chair.man opened the hearing at 7: 56 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hear.ing in its .entirety and ap-peal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of .rendition produced by Ed
Tobia ' and Sons ; dated 4/10/84 indicating a proposed deck a variation
Of 10 '. by 26 ' elongating_..it to 4 , an additional four feet in the
sideyard area. And:. I::have a copy of the ,Suffolk County Tax Map
. indi:cating this and surrounding .properties in the area . Would
somebody _like to be heard in behalf of this application?
JOHN STUMPF : Yes , and I haven set of ;plans for the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Good , thank you .
MR. ' STUMPF: It has the elevation . (Mr. Stumpf .gave each of
the f.ou.r. _:board members one copy of .the 4/10/84 plan-.. ).- I ' d. also.
like to submit some pictorial data for you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Could we have your name please?
MR. STUMPF: I ' m John Stumpf, acting as agent for Mr. Stumpf.
.MR. CHAIRMAN : Go ahead
Southold Town Board of Appeals -9- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3247 - ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF, continued : )
MR. STUMPF: As was stated a bit in the original application ,
the main premises are the natural ' lirght- &,. venti 1 ation has been
restricted due to some growth very. close to our property . We ' d
also like to .at this time make the deck as a protective barrier
against some barren trees which are existing, .on the property
adjacent. During recent storms , I ' ll show .ypu some pictures ,
some limbs have fallen very close to_ the house. almost breaking
windows . The deck. might help_ as a protective barrier against
that.
Also , 'the lack of the rearyard. We only have 11 feet , so we
really don '- t. have a rear yard. _ And the encroachment of those
hed9es on our rear yard really cuts down on .our rearya_rd . We
have no backyard . So 'by rai_s_ing.' it , we ' re hoping to add to that .
I ' d. like to submit some .pictures as to how we had purchased
the house and some of the con_d.itions that exist now. I ' ll start
at this end. '('Sever.al photographs were submitted.. ). That was six
years ago that we had purchased the house "as is _."::..,.;At that time ,
the old donors had i nst.al 1 ed some be.a.6.t'tful- bay :windows in the
area which are no .use to, us now, whi ch`_y_ou.' 1,1 see i n some of the
other pictures .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there an actual covering over the-- oh , this
is the .awning .
MR. STUMPF: That ' s. an awning .right there . That was ruined
during that storm due to some. limbs fa..11ing through it of which .
our insurance will not cover the cost .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok .
MR. STUMPF: Can I entertain any questions from you?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well , i.t ' s. very rare , Mr. Stumpf 'that we allow
any construc.ti.on that _close to the_ property ,line . ..We have not .
discussed this because __we had not had the he'arin-g . What you ' re
in effect telling us that due to the rise or thegr.owth of .the
hedg,e_ to the .- rear of your property , or your mother ' s property ,
it has limited you ,both air-w.ise and view-wise , 'and use-wise._,, is
that what you ' re saying?
MR . STUMPF: Exactly . It has been six years since it' s been
maintained , an_ d I don ' t.....feel it' s. at all right to maintain them,
so you really have an alternative that _defe_ats this special request
from .you that you could possibly offer any suggestions . I_t would
_.be helpful .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well , you ' re talking about a deck that ' s
approximately afoot (91' ) off.: the line ,._ is that correct?
MR. STUMPF: . That' s correct . Yes. A non-permanent deck , of
course. I ' mean it - could be taken down . You know it ' s. not a
structural , not a habi-table thing. Nobody is going to: live on it,
sort of .speak . It' s. just. seasonal use .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -1.0- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3247 - ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF, continued: )
MR . CHAIRMAN : What ' s the actual elevation of the deck?
MR . STUMPF : Well , there ' s..a rear elevation , which is here . And
then that ' s the side elevation .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes , well , what' s the actual height of it?
MR. STUMPF: Oh , I ' m sorry. Height-wise . It would be close to
7 ' 6" where the top sill plate would be on the existing house . About
7 ' 6" . What I ' m trying to do is tie it right into that somehow with
two connectors which I had talked to Mr . Hindermann about which he
accepted and recommended .
MR . CHAIRMAN : I would assume if you made this deck smaller it
would not serve any practical purpose .
MR. STUMPF : No , sir. I studied five years as an architect and
that ' s already pushing it as far a.s usable .space . I would like to go
out, you know, at least 12 feet but the .10 feet would be. sufficient
to our needs .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Let us just give you the philosophy that we use .
If a person does not have an adequate. area to. get to the rearyard of
his property or her property , that presents a problem. I am ..aware
of the fact. that this particular addition , sort of speak, will be a
permanent part of the actual plan or the house as-_ it stands ,,, which
would then basi c.al ly mean that. i t i s..an a,ttachment ,..ok . It is not
an accessory structure .
MR . STUMPF: No .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Which then limits you to the actual use of the
rear of .the property for the purposes .of ,any maintenance:
MR . STUMPF: Not re.al'ly . We have full access underneath the
deck . - It ' s: a ,_matter of four columns , I-- believe . -Four by four posts
which I don ' t see a rear hinderance as to ma.intenance. or-. any of that.
My mother right now has plenty of flowers which will remain-.. right
along the edge of the property . _ I .don ' t see any problem with her
getting to it , if that.' s what. you mean by maintenance_.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I meant the possibility of .getting machinery
back there if they required it . Are there._ any .cesspool areas
MR. STUMPF: Not whatsoever. It ' s only 11 feet. I don ' t really
think you could get any machinery back there if you wanted to .
MR. CHAIRMAN : You could certainly back a car back there if you
had to , presently over the top of .that slab?
MR. STUMPF: For what purpose though? I mean' you can go
through the front door, just as easy as. you would be able to go
throu.gh the back . 'And we have a right-o.f-.way to the left of the
property which would be perfect for, ac.cess , .th:at�;.cannot be touched
Southold Town Board of Appeals -11 - June 21 , - 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No : 3247 - ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF, CONTINUED: )
MR. STUMPF continued:
.by anybody .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Well the only thing we thought:.Wherr::we_.went:.down
there , that maybe we s-,hould entertain ..into the .existing roof line ,
and putting a flat roof on the rear part of the house.
MR. STUMPF: Uhm , yeah , I thought of that too , but that' s some
nice storms that come off of the bay that way. And .we have no leaks
now, and -flashing . and` wh.at _not don '_t. alw'ays work , and if that water
got' in there with the sea air and everything , you know ,--. why create
a problem if .there ' s. no need to .
MR. CHAIRMAN : There would be no roof on. this? .
MR . STUMPF: No , no . It ' s. strictly open . Simple post and beam
construction : _.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I mean it wouldn ' t. serve as a roof on the lower
part of ,the cemented area.
MR. STUMPF.: Not a roof, for a protective covering it would be
like a terrace almost.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Open , slatted.
MR. STUMPF: Open , slatted,":with the joints , yes . It wouldn ' t--
no rolled roof_i.ng o_r anything of .that sort on top_ of..it.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . Well , we haven ' t.'Atscussed it , :'so we ' ll
discuss it after the hearin.g_s , and thank you very much for your
presentation and copies .
MR. STUMPF: Thank you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Would anybody else like to speak in behalf of
the application? Anybody l i_ke to speak_ against the appl i cat_i on?_
Mr. Stumpf, who owns- the hedge? _.
MRS. M. BURNS: We do.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Could I ask you to use the mike , ma 'am?
I reali,ze that this gentleman didn ' t but it ;makes it a little bit
easier when we record it.
MRS. MARGARET BURNS: Well , my name is Margaret Burn . We are
the owners - of the property to.: the .west of the property of Mr . Stumpf.
I would like to point out that we did receive the notice , and on
th,e basis of the notice, we did check out the_,material here at the
Town Hall . There is according to the drawing that I received a
discrepancy . - I.t ' s incomplete . To the north side there already is
Southold Town Board Appeals -12- June 21 _ 984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3247 - ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF, continued : )
MRS . BURNS (continued) :
a structure that is on the property line , not now shown , and this
structure was not part of the original building . In addition to
that , we object to. structures of any kind _on the property line , and
according to a notation on the plot plan that we received , Mr.
Stumpf has said that the property that the deck would go to the
property line , and the date on that notation is May the 15th . The
deck as is planned has 14 steps of approximately 74" apart, and if
you take 14 steps with ,that measurement , you ' re_ coming to 8 ' or
more , so that the floor of the deck would be 8 ' high . Now this
would constitute an invasion of privacy_ now, and it would .be an
increased invasion of privacy when we _build in that area. And
this is a consideration . Now they talk about the hedges . The
hedges are on. our property , and they ..-have been in existence for
over 50 .years . Now, we h-ad the property for approximately 20 years .
And we did come to a hearing in .conn_ ection with the height of the
hedges in May of last year ,_._ and the case was dismissed.
Now if .this application sh'o.uld be granted , we question
whether or not it would establish__.. a precedent for others in the
area which would include us . On the_ basis of 'the property line
alone , I respe_ctf.ul'ly request the application of the waiver be
denied.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you Mrs . Burns . Is there anybody else
that would like to speak against the application? Questions from
board members? (None ) Only one other question , is there any
reason , Mr. Stumpf, why yo-u selected that heigh.t as opposed to
.the normal height' a person would build a deck , two ; three feet
off the ground?
MR. STUMPF : Yes , we have -a rear door there which you had
said correct ,--accessibility to the back yard. Next to that
window is the door of which you get out into the rearyard .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Which?
MR. STUMPF: Next to the picture window.
MR. CHAIRMAN : It ' s not shown in this drawing.
MR. STUMPF: No , I ' m sorry , it isn ' t . I ' ll get you a copy.
But , you know.,.. it ' s a hazard just to trip over a two-foot step.
MR . CHAIRMAN : How far does that sill go down from that door?
Are there steps coming. out of that door?
MR. STUMPF: Oh , there ' s. just , you know, one step .
MR. CHAIRMAN : One step , about 8" or something like that?
MR. STUMPF: Yes . But , no , not even 8" because when they
i
Southold Town Board of Appeals -13- June, 21 , ra84. Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. . 3247 - ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF, continued : )
MR. STUMPF:
poured the slab to the concrete , they came up instead of digging down .
So it ' s only about 4" . to tell. you the truth .,
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you . Would anybody else like to be heard
in behalf of this hearing? Sir?
ERNEST STUMPF: My name is Ernest Stumpf. In answer to the
question of adjacent structure on there, whe.n we purchased the home
six years ago , we._,pur,.chased this with a Certifi,cate of Occupancy,
the structures as they are :
MR. CHAIRMAN: I would assume you ' re referring to. the storage
building , is that correct? _.
JOHN STUMPF : The only reason it ' s, not on the drawing is it
was not on the-,-. survey tha.t.. I had worked off ;of, so I didn ' t. know.
MRS. BURNS: May I comment on th.a.t? As far as I know, that is
not a storage structure . That structure whi°c_h was put up by the
previous owner ] s an outside shower and I would say that_ the width
of it is approximately five feet and the hei'g_ht of it is eight feet
or more ; and al though.-. I. don ' t. 1 i ke to say th'.i s , I_ question whether
or not a waiver was ever reque.sted for the building of .that structure .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Do you know the approximate -size of that storage
shower , whatever?
JOHN STUMPF : Four and one-half feet by seven , then it goes up
to no more than seven feet.
MR. CHAIRMAN : How far off the rear line would you say that
exists? _
JOHN STUMPF: It sits right on the rear ,line .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Right on the rear line itself.. Ok .
MRS .. BURNS : Right on the side line as !well .
JOHN STUMPF: Side and rear lines .
MRS. BURNS : Property lines .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Would anybody else like ; to be heard in behalf
of this application? Hearing no. furthe.r questions , I ' ll make a.,__
motion closing the hearing and reserving decision .
MEMBER SAWICKI : Second.
MR . STUMPF ; (When will we know? )
MR. CHAIRMAN : What I ask you to .do is to give us a call in
a week or so and ask us if .we made a decision : Call us next Friday
and find out when the next Special Meeting i,s. and we ' ll deliberate
on this when at the next Special Meeting-. Thank you for coming in.
Southold Town Boaru- uf Appeals -14- June 21 _ 984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. ,3247 = ERNE.ST 'AND JEAN STUMPF, continued : )
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Sawicki , it was
RESOLVED , to close the hearing and reserve decision in the
matter of the application of ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF, Appeal No . 3247 .
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs: oGoehringer, Grigonis, Doyen and Sawicki.
Member Douglass was absent at this point in*time. This resolution was adopted.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No: '3227 . Application for EUSTACE C.
ERIKSEN , 1085 Westv.iew Drive , Mattituck , ,N.Y- for a Variance to
the Zoning Ordinance , appealing the December 12 , 1983 decision
of the building inspector in order to permit the conversion and
renovation of a "guest cottage" or second dwelling structure at
premises known as 1085 West View Drive , Matti.tuck ; County Tax
Map Parcel No . 1000- 139-1 -3 .
The Chairman _..opened the'.hear.ing at 8 : 17 p . m. and read the
legal notice of .hearing in its entirety and_ appeal application .
MR . CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I._°have'.a copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map showing this and surrounding properties . Mr. Bruer.
RUDOLPH BRUER, ESQ. : Rudolph. Bruer in behalf of the
applicant ._.. Chairman and members of the board , the situation
arose back in May of 1983 . An application was made to make an
addition and alter the existing accessory building . That
building permit was issued and the work in connection therewith
has been completed. Thereafter on December 12 , 1983 , a Notice
of Disapproval was issued by the Building Inspector stating
that the applicant was converting the building , the accessory
building to a guest cottage conversion , w,ith..reference to the
application--going back to the reference of the May 13 , 1983
application ._ I make again specific reference to the Certificate
of .Occupancy that was issued on October 3 , 1975. It was issued
October 3 , 1.975 and it says :
" . . . The occupancy for which this certificate is issued
is private one-family dwelling with accessory building
(can be guest cottage with . no ..cooking facilities . . . . "
I would like the board to take notice of a, housing code inspection
dated-, October 3 , 1975=- I don ' t know if .it ' s. part of your fil.e--
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes ,- it is .
MR .. BRUER: Made by Mr . Hindermann at that time , and on
paragraph three of that report it says :
" . . .An informal discussion with-.,the- Board of Appeals and
present owner was held some time i.n 1.969 with regard to
.,making living unit in this building .._, The Board ' s recom-
mendations were that living rooms would be permissible-,tut
kitchen facilities would not be permitted . . ..
And with this , it is obvious that after that inspection and with
this in mind, Mr. Terry issued a Certificate of „Occupancy stating
that the accessory - bui.ldi.ng could be used as a.._ guest_ cottage , and
with that in mind , it was so used . It was sold by the then owner ,
Southold Town Board of Appeals -15- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3227 - EUSTACE C . ERIKSEN , continued: )
MR. BRUER (continued ) :
I believe , Mr. Gildersleeve , to another party.;.7Who then sold it to
my client in 1977 .
MR. CHAIRPTAN: Was there anything done in between that , to your
knowledge , t-o- the structure?
MR. BRUER: Not to 'my knowledge . I know nothing that was done .
Mr. Eriksen is here . Mr. and Mrs .._. Eriksen are here , . and I ' d. like
to ask them ohe :par.t.i:cul ar question . Mr. Er.i ksen , .woul d' you have
bought these premises in 1977 if .you could not have us_ed .this
building as a guest cottage?
MR. ERIKSEN : I don ' t. think we would , because we wanted i.t
(for that use . )
MR. BRUER: Is it true that you ' re using it primarily for your
mother and son and daughter and grandchildren?
MR. ERIKSEN : That 's correct .
MRS . ERIKSEN : The main house is too small , we. don ' t. h.ave
enough sleeping arrangements .
MR.. BRUER: And I believe isn ' t.. it true that with respect
to the conversion that was done , two bedrooms were eliminated
and with the intent of converting it into -a garage? ...
MR. ERIKSEN : Right.
MR.. BRUER: And that the living space has been there for
living in?
MR . ERIKSEN : Right.
MRS . ERIKSEN : That ' s. right.
MR.. BRUER: And isn ' t. it true that there are no cooking
facilities on the premises?
MR . ERIKSEN : None .
MR. BRUER: Mr. Chairman and members ,of .the board , I don ' t.
know why the December Notice of Disapproval wa.s issued . And
that ' s. why we ' re here .
MR . CHAIRMAN : In other words , you applied for a C/O at
that time
MR.. BRUER: I don ' t. t.hink he applied for a C/O. I think--
........ _... ...
MRS . ERIKSEN : We had the C/O .
MR.. B.RUER: No , you had the C/O for the house but on this
particular structure?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -16- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3227 - EUSTACE C ." ERIKSEN , continued : )
MR. BRUER: And . the building permit was issued. Obviously the
. building department was. aware of the use of the building based
upon the inspection of Mr. Hindermann of that stating that they.
were for living quarters , that it was used for the purposes
thereof. That he contacted somebody and there was discussions
with the Board of Appeals . I don ' t know if the hearing was
held .
MR. CHAIRMAN : No , I ' m. not aware of any.
MR. BRUER: But in that event , and I certainly point to the
board ' s attention that 'my clients have expended a _.great deal of
money in reliance upon the .documents. th.at were issued by the
Building Inspector .stating the particular use of '.the property ,
which is now being denied .
MR. CHAIRMAN : In other words , what you ' re saying that--
MR. BRUER: And that denial was done without a hearing .
MR. CHA.IRM.AN : In other words , what you ' re saying is that
this bu.ilding , the actual conformity of .the building has not
changed ._since . the time' they h_ r a.ve puchased this. .property , that
they -. very simply eliminated. two bedrooms to cons,truct this
garage?
MR. BR.U.ER: I think there ' s. been addition to the building .
M. ERIKSEN : Twenty feet was added onto the bedroom.
MR . CHAIRMAN : Coming forward 20 .feet from your house .
.MR. ERIKSEN : Right.
MR.. BRUER: But that ' s. not the problem. The problem is that
a building permit was issued for that_ . There ' s. no_t_ hing wrong
with the construction .
MR CHAIRMAN : Right. I 'm.---.not saying, that.
.MR. B.RU.ER : For the addition . I ' m talking ab.out use .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes . I understand. I ' m. just trying to find
out what was added also during that particular period of .time .
MR. BRUER: I do have a diagram of the present part of it;
I don ' t. know i f. .that ' s. part of .y_o.ur f.i.l a .: We can su_bmi t it .
See where the garage- is.,. there were two ..b.edroo.ms there . And if
I may point here , I guess th'ey.'.11 have ro.11 out 'beds for up here
in. that area . And i.t' s. strictly for fa.m.i.l..y use , guest, or friends .
MR.. CHAIRMAN : Do we have any idea when this building was
o.ri gi n,a,l'ly erected?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -17- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3227 - EUSTACE C. ERIKSEN , continued : )
MR. BRUER: No . I don ' t have any information .
[ It is noted for the record that Member Douglass arrived at this
point , approximately 8 : 26 p .m. ]
MR..: CHAIRMAN : It ' s also our in.tention that the kitchen
cabinets that exist in there are very simply just cabinets . There
will be no stove associated along with that.
MR. BRUER: No . Whoever lives there , it ' s. family , and they ' re
going to eat with the family . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I see . So although it appears to be a kitchen ,
it ' s not really a kitchen .
MR., BRUER: No . (Not a kitchen ) It' s basically convenience .
Does the board have any questions , of .myself, my clients?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Let ' s see what develops here and we ' ll get
back to you . Thank you very much .
MR. BRUER: Ok .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there .anybody else to be heard in behalf of
this application? Is there anybody_ th.at would. like to speak
against_ the application? (No one ) . Questions from any board
members? (None ) Mr. Bruer, if the .,board desires to
_ grant this
.application , or in effect , reverse the decision of the building
ins_.pector , do you have any objections to restrictions on this
particular piece of property _as to size , no further addition?
To the size . of the building , further reinforcing the fact that
there be no cooking facility , which of course was originally
stated in the--
MR.. B.RUER: I could have no objection, to the cooking facilities .
I haven ' t discussed the other thing _with my clients , but it would
seem to me what we 're really talking about _ is ,-.."Was Howard Terry ' s
act as a. Building Inspector in. 1975. . legiti'mate?".
MR. CHAIRMAN : I understand.
MR—BRUER : And by .buying a piece of property , relying on
that , 'why - should we lose our rights if .we haven ' t? .
MR. CHAIRMAN : No , I understand. I ' m. asking you this question
because this is what comes.-,up in deliberations . __
MR.. BRUER: I don ' t. know what you could mean by additional
structure '.
MR. C.H.AIRMAN : No , no . Any further addition to this structure .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -18 J.une'. 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3227 = EUSTACE C. ERIKSEN , continued : )
MR. BRUER : We would only be allowed to do that if it was proper .
I mean , they would. be denied if we weren ' t allowed to do it as a
matter of right , I don ' t know why we should be restricted in that .
MR.- CHAIRMAN : Ok . Thank you .
MR. BRUER: Thank you . Would anybody else like to speak in
behalf of against this application? (None ) Hearing no further
questions , I ' ll make .a motion closing the hearing and reserving
decision .
On motion by Mr. Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Sawicki , it was
RESOLVED , to close 'the -hearfng .'and 'reserVe decision in the
matter of.-the application of .EU:STACE 'C :- 'ERIKS.EN , Appeal No . 3227 .
Vote of .the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawn.cki. . This resolution wa.s unanimously
adopted 'by'._all the members .
At this point in time; Member Grigonis left the meeting room
for the next hearing .
PUBLIC HEARING-: Appeal No . 3248. Application of JOHN 'GRIGONIS ,
950. Bayview Road , .Southold , NY for a. Variance to the Zoning Ordi -
nance , Article III , Section 1.00=* 31 for approval of the construction
of new dwelling with reduction of..sideyard setback , at premises
located at 860 Main Bayview Road , Southold; County Tax Map Parcel
No . 1000-070-07=016 . 2 .
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8 : 33 p .m. and read the legal
notice of hearing concerning this ap.plication... in its entirety and
appeal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of .the May. 12 ,. 1983 survey
i:ndic.ating' the . setback in question which is -nine feet three -inches ,
and I have a copy of the Suffolk County- Tax Map indicating this
and surrounding .properties in the area. - Is Mr. Grigonis here?
Would you, like t_o be heard in beh,alf ,of ,your application , sir?
JOHN GRI.GONIS : The home that I ' m. in is too big . It' s. getting
to be quite- a n expense and a hardship . I ' m. not a chicken any more
and .it_.has..steep._staiirs:; and downstairs , and I ' d. like to get over
into the other _place , and it ' s. there . Nine inches out of the..way .
It was a mistake_ in the first .place where the lot angles off where
we put the house in, line.- with ,.the. elements and_. that'_s_,..wh.ere the
pr.o.blem came in .
MR . CHAIRMAN : We have not discussed ,this entire application
with all the board members . ' Mr, . ..Doyen-jhas just flown. in ,__ from
Fishers., I,sl and , so I can ' t- guarantee you that we,'_,11 have the
-determination tonight. I know that you ' re bu,ildi'ng and' 'You ' ve been
Southold Town Board of Appeals - 19- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN GRIGONIS , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN ( continued ) :
holding off on it . We will attempt to give you a determination ,
however , in a very short period of time in' the next few days . So
I hope you can bear with us at least until such time .as he has
been over to look at the building and so .o.n and so forth . Ok?
Thank you very much for coming in .
Is there anybody else that would. like to speak in behalf of
this application? Against the application or in behalf?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ: Against .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . Do you want to use the mike?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ :. I have a loud enough voice .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . Go ahead . Could I have your name?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ: My name is Sophie Furmankewicz , and I ' m
a next door neighbor to Grigonis . And_. in 19.65 , I bought the
property from. Benedict Mana_sek . ' I bring them and I have the
papers ,_ that nobody be divided the lot _that was in between us ,
and for that reason , nobody going to build in the middle between
Mr . Grigonis and me . And _4,1_1 of a sudden this year , ' the house
came up after 20 years . I ,want_ to know how Mr._- Gri goni s got
away with_, building the house .
MR. CHAIRMAN : How do you pronounce your. last name?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ: Furma.nkewicz .'
MR . CHAIRMAN : . We had an appeal , Mr. Grigonis had filed an
appeal with this board and we had granted -_h.im_ the division of
hi..s property , 'approximately a' year.., or so ago; .:with a provision
that the property no '. longer be business , that it be used for
residential purposes.,_and that the fuel oil tanks that 'are_. ,placed
a in the rer of the property be either removed or filled with
sand , and that he not be able to operate a fuel oil business
from that particular piece _of .property again . And that was
,the provision that we had given him and a.1l6wed him to--. .
MRS ..FURMAN.KEWICZ: But what , how big is his property to
put a - house on , where the' back yard is practica.11-y no room for
_anybody to move around?
MR . CHAIRMAN : I can ' t read the-- oh , the actual size here
is , appears to - be 65 ' -.,by._ l.80 ' ,. which allows him appr_o.ximately
almost. .17 feet on th_e side where his existing resi-dence is and
an average . of .about ten feet on' your side .
MR'S .. .FURMANKEWICZ:. But it ' s. not ten feet on my side .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -20-June 21 , lv64 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN GRIGONIS , continued : ) -
MR. CHAIRMAN : Have you seen a copy of the survey?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ: No .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you want to see it? Come on up and we ' ll
show it to you :
MRS. FURMANKEWICZ : Because 20 years ago , we agreed nobody
going to build in the middle .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I don ' t. know if .you can see it from there .
Here ' s your property. Here ' s.. the.. 9 . 3" we ' re talking about. . The
average of the h,ous:e. is a little over l'O '. ,, .1 ],. 1 . There ' s the
area that ` he:':s.: here appeal_i,ng._....
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ : And .a,ll of .a sudden , his house is ahead
of my ' property . My house is i_n. the. backyard.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I understand that. But he is allowed to go
as close as 35 ' .. He chose to go, 1:5 '. _back .farther than the 35 '. .
MRS. FURMANKEW,ICZ:. I d.on ' t. thi.nk there ' s 35 because--
MR. CHAIRMAN : No , they reduced it. back down to 35 , or
whatever the existing setba_c.k--
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ: You see ,. with me was the agreement. Now
I ' m. payi'ng.. for half .the, l.pt that . wa.s going to. be no -use to me .
MR. CHAIRMAN : But you don ' t. own this property .
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ:. I own this part of .the . property .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MRS. .FURMANKEWICZ :. So when Mr . Manasek was selling that lot
supposed t_o: be divided by , never to_ be used as a building lot.
And I build before Mr. G_rigonis . I would,.:like to see his part ,
deed .of where the property, . when he bought the other half.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I ' m not going to read this , can we copy this
and give it back to you right now?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ : I have a copy of it home . (Mrs . Furman-
kewicz handed the Chairman the original _deed from_ Manasek .to
Furmankewicz for photocopying and return by -mail . )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Can we keep this and send it back to you?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ: Yes .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Ok.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -21 - June .2-I , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN GRIGONIS , continued: )
MRS. FURMANKEWICZ: To me it ' s just , I bought a half a lot and
now all of a sudden somebody builds a house , without surveyors ,
without nothing .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . We ' ll take a copy �of .this and send it back
to you , ok? Thank you very _much . Is there anything else you
wanted to say?
MRS . FURMANKEWICZ : No , I don ' t want that house to be there .
It ' s as simple as that. Because I ' m paying for half a lot of the
property which is no use to me .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you very much. Is there anybody else
that would like to speak against the application? Yes , ma ' am?
MRS . RADE: A question . Is it permissible to build
with the 65 ' of width on my property?
MR. CHAIRMAN : If the lot has been divided or has been preexist-
ing , yes .
SECRETARY : I didn ' t. get her name .
MR . CHAIRMAN : May I have your name , Miss , for the record?
SANDRA RADE: Sandra Rade . R-A-D-E .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there anybody else that would like to speak
against , sir? ' Would you stateyouur name please?
FRANK TARULLI : My name is Frank Tarulli and I live at 1540
North- Bayview Road in ".Southold . _ Mr . Chairman and board members ,
I am curious on the parcel itself ; I gathered from this evening
which I didn ' t. know,,. that_ it was considered a building lot , which
is fine . That settles one question . The only th..ing ,I don ' t,
understand now is I_ ride by there every day ,.. _and as. far as saying
for example he had , was there a variance i_s.sued before he got a
_building_ permit?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. TARULLI : Once .-.the:.house:_b0il.t , and now we ' re applying
for a ' v-ari ance., was there approval of .hi s bu.i 1 di ng permi_t?. __ In.
other words , he had his septic tank and well setbacks all approved.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. TARULLI : And I don ' t. understand how the house is 9" on
the lady ' s. property or at this time with the house being three-
quarters built that now we ' re applying for a variance . I mean ,
.just as -a point of information I___want to know. Becau_.se when I
_built , everything had to be before I dug the -Kole . I put a garden
shed in the back , and everythi:n.g had to be approved before that.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -22- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN GRIGONIS , continued : )
(Member Grigonis returned to the board room approximately 8 : 40 p . m. )
MR. TARULLI : So .all I ' m curious is , as far as the rules , I just
want to know where I ' m going if I want to do something else , if
I want to build another house . So as I say , it ' s only a point of
information . It seems that it ' s built , and yet now we ' re asking
for a variance . I don ' t understand that.
MR , CHAIRMAN : Mr. Tarulli --
MR. TARULLI : I thank you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I ' ll answer the question . Do you want the
questions answered?
MR. TARULLI : Yes , 'Please .
MR. CHAIRMAN : On Apr.i1. 12 ,,. 1983 ,: we had a hearing of which
I had eluded to before , _whi_ch divided this property with the
provision that it not be used for business again . _. Again with the
provision that the .existing tanks be , Mro Grigonis , I assume had
an oil business or something of that nature on this property.
And with the provision that the oil tanks ei.:ther: be removed or
filled with sand , and that no business be used there . That this
not be a site for business again , ok? What I assumed happened,
and this is only my opinion , ok , is that when they actually
constructed the foundation , the foundation attempted--they
filed the application and the building permit was granted. I
have no idea what occurred with the Suffolk County Health Depart-
ment in general . All I can tell you is. a building permit was
granted by the building depart_men.t , and when .the foundation was '
put in , and actually when .the foundation was approved and some
time thereafter , .when they started framing , they had found out
that the foundation itself was some. 9" closer to the sideyard.
So ' it ' s. 9 ' 3." rather than approximately 10 ' . And this is the
nature of the application . They ' re _tal.king about a eight or
nine inch variance on the sideyard area . And this ..can be done
very , very easily by just moving the foundation one way or
another , and that ' s exactly what the nature of this application
is at this time . Sophie ' s_ situation is entirely a different
view of it , and I ' woul.d .rather not expound on that at this
particular time .
MR. TARULLI : That ' s all right . I think you ' ve answered
part of .it . _As I said , the only thing that was getting me a
little confused is seeing what_ happened and what took place ,
and what I ' ve seen is that we just passed from the Master Plan
one-acre zoning to two-acre zoning ,..- and then we approve from
my .knowledge ,, Iooking at the place , I couldn ' t say . But it
looked ._like the. house was on 40 ' by 50 ' or something like that.
Because_ .there ' s. a garage in the back of s it . I assumed the
property goes all the way back :.then .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes , it does . I think I have a copy-- I
was incorrect , by the way , because I was reading off .the
Suffolk County Tax Map . .. But the -property ,is approximately 69
by,_ .180 on one side and 175 on the other side .
two pieces , so I had to add both of them together. I was just
taking a fast figure . I would assume it ' s about 50 feet past
the rear of the garage .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -23- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No : 3248 - JOHN:`GR.IGONIS , continued: )
MR. TARULLI : I.. did not know the dimensions of the lot, assuming
that the house , and the garage in the back', I assumed it .was 40 by
50 or whatever. And that was. it at mostly. As far as saying that
he ' s applying for a variance now , after the house was up , I didn ' t
think that should have been done.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Occasionally, this happens . The best example
of this is when a person has a one-car garage attached to an
existing , one-story house , and they attempt to put a second garage
on . When they pour the foundation , instead of making the . garage
11 then make it 12 because they want to be' able to fit a lawnmower
in , and they find out there ' s. no longer. a ;sideyard now at_. 10 feet ,
and now it ' s. nine feet , which requires the°m to come before this
board. . The building could be completely constructed , and they
have gone to the building department for an updated C.O . , that
already has a C .Q . but a C .O . now on that ;part of the .garage that
you added, and now they have to come before this board for the
purpose of reducing-,that sideyard back down a foot. And it ' s. a
prime example of what happens sometimes . Sometimes you can have
the best surveyors , best. masons , and people still make mistakes .
MR. TARULLI : All right. Thank you very much .
MR. CHAIRMAN : You ' re very .welcome . Sir , would you like to
be heard? .
MR . JERRY GRASECK: If .that ' s. going to be the case , 'a 913"
setback , does t.h,is set a precedent for everyone else in ,the area?
MR. CHAIRMAN : No , absolutely not. You ' ll still be required
to have 10 feet .
MR. GRASECK: Then I feel it should be denied.
MR . CHAIRMAN : Can I have your name? ;
MR. GRASECK: Jerry Graseck'..
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Yes , ma ' am? .
MRS . RADE: When you change the building on a piece of .property ,
Y 9
wo.ul d , the adjacent property 'owners be noti,fi.ed of your decis-ion.
Would those folks be notified about it at ,all ?
MR . CHAIRMAN: No. Yes . Knowing that' there was an application
before the board , it ' s. basically the same question that I had.:
referred to Mrs . Burns , and that was to call the board in a week
or two weeks ' and so on, and so:-forth . .
MRS. BADE: For the original application w.o.uld the adjacent
property owners be notified?.
MR. CHAIRMAN : No.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -.24- June 2i , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN GRIGONIS , continued : )
MRS . RADE: Notified for that the same?
MR. CHAIRMAN :. No . She was notified ;of .the hearing , which I
have no idea if she came or did not come . , I ' d have to read the
minutes at that particular time . Does that answer your question?
MRS. RADE: Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes , ma' am. Could we, have your name?
KATHLEEN G.RASECK: Yes . Kathleen Gra�seck. I 'm. just. wondering
how 'a man„ could have .clear ti,tT.e: when in f,'act _she has a deed to
this property
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well , we have not had '.a chance to go over th'is ,
with the Town Attorney_, ' or anything at this partic.ular. time , so
that ' s. why I ' m. saying,_. I said to Mr.. Taru,l'li I rea.l_ly don ' t want
to get into this ..because I would have - to sit down here and
decipher this before , you- know--.I.' m. happy ,she presented this
to us so that we ' re aware of .what the situation is here.
Sophie , could you possibly give us a survey of .your property so
we might be able to. follow _the. lines that iar.e .mentioned in here-in
this deed--
MRS. FU.RMANKEWICZ: Everything is mentioned on it , and I
bought the property before and it states. ghat too , before Mr.
Grigonis wi.th .the _understanding. that nobody gonna build in - the
middle. I don ' t need that piece of .proper'ty. and. Grigonis .didn ' t.
want to buy the property because he didn ' t. _want ' to pay for it.
So this way , he divided the lot , I paid. for it with the under.
standing that nobody ' is going to be buil_di;ng in the middle .
That we. going to have privacy and they wou!ld .have privacy. Now
I ' m, paying tax on that piece- of ,land for ZO ".years . Now he
builds the house , and I, mean all of ',a_ sudd,en over_ the line .
So „if he is entitled to do that, L` m going' to put another one
right next to i t , _ and we ' re going to have ;five cesspools in
the backyard, four-car garage , gas tank , fuel tank.; and all
that. Let ' s. have _a fun'! I__ thought there was a law. When.-. I
put up _a sign for pizza , they wrote me a note. to. take it -off..
Now, al 1 of .a sudden, a man bu.i 1 ds a house ;on a half -a lot , _and
everybody-._ says it',s. fine because he s. an old man .____,
MR . CHAIRMAN : Would anybody else like to be heard in
behalf .of :thi s ' appl i cat.i on? ..: ,(No one ) . _ He;ari ng no further
questions , I 'll make 'a motion .closing the 'hear_ing a_nd rese.r.v-
ing decision. _until. later .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer, seconded; by Mr. Sawicki , it was
RESOLVED , to close 'the hearing and - relse.rVe 'decision . in the
F matter of_.the ap,plicati„on of_ JO.HN GRIGONIS,; .Appeal. _No._ 32.48e
Southold Town Board - of Appeals -25- June 2i , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN 'GRIGONIS, continued : )
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , DoYen:, ' Douglass
and Sawicki . Member Grigonis abstained from vote . This resolution
was adopted by majority vote of all the members present.
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No. 3246 . Application for PATRICK
CARRIG and 'MARK S : McDONALD .(Owners : Eric� and Nancy Malm ichmond
Road , Southold , NY for a. .Variance for approval of .acces_s , New York
Town Law, Section.-. 280-.A:, over a private right-o.f-.way located at the
north side of Bergen Avenue, Mattituck , to, prem_1ses identified as
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-1.12-171„8 , containing approximately
3 . 9 acres .
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8 :'$1 p .m. and read the. legal
notice of-;this hearing in its entirety and appeal application . ._
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of .a survey dated January 31 ,
1964 indicating the nature of th-e_ ri._ght-of-way , which__ i s ac-cording
to Mr. Davis ' report some 34501 i neal feet l on-g , and I h.ave a copy
of the Suffolk County. --Tax Map indicating this _and surrounding
properties in the area : Mr. Bruer , would you, like to be heard in
_behalf .of this application?
RUDOLPH H. BRUER, ESQ . : . Mr . Chairman', Members of .the. Board:
Very simply , we would lik.e. you " to grant the application because
that ' s the_ o.nly way this property can be used. for residential use .
Without that ,._ it ' s. limited to being a garden . _ Very simply. And
it ' s, beautiful soun_dfront property , an_d it should be utilized.
MR. CHAIRMAN : bk . Are you aware of ;the engineer' s. report?
MR.. BRUER: Yes , I am.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there anything you! wo,uld. like to say
concerning that?
MR. BRUER: I have nothing to say. Mr . Carrig , do you have
anything you would like to say?
MR. CARRIG : .(Nodded no. )
MR . BRUER : No? You ' ve seen it. You'' ve been aware of i.t?
MR . CHAIRMAN : So you would like us to make our determination
based upon the engineer' s. report _on what type of material we -should
use in dealing wi.th it®
MR. BRUER: I don ' t have anything else to submit for the
board ' as an alternative . I would like to .add though , _I know the
board does not usually make determinations od the date of the
hearing , I would ask that you make an exce',pt.i.on here . This is
based ,_u_pon an _early February contract with, a June 30th closing date
Southold Town Board of Appeals -26- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3246 - CARRIG & McDONALD , continued: )
MR. BRUER (continued) :
and that has been extended to this month , and we are in some what a
jeopardy with respect to this matter .
MR. CHAIRMAN : All right. We ' ll make every attempt. I think
we ' re going to go until 2 :00 o ' clock in the morning , to be honest
with you . But I would make every attempt to resolve this , and in
some way, a determination by the end of next week , and that' s the
best I can do for you .
MR . BRUER: I would appreciate that, and I don ' t very often ask
that request.
MR. CHAIRMAN : We,'II we. ap.preciate' your--
MR. BRUER: Tha.nk' you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is there anybody else that would like to speak
in beh'al f ;of ,the application? _ _Anyb_ody_ l.i ke to speak ._against the
application? . Que'stions from board members?
GAIL WICKHAM, ES'Q. : ' My. name. i.s. Ga.i1 Wi.ckham , 'and I represent
Mr. W_ana_t., the adjoi.ntng . owner. I was .j_ust contacted tonight . I
would just to see the map of ,the right.-of.=,w;ay. and the engineer' s.
report.. P m. not sure yet the ob jec_ti on on. that until I. .1 ook at
the file .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr.. Bruer, it ' s. my opinion that this right-of-way
is 15 - feet wide?
MR. BRUER : One rod.
MR. CHAIRMAN : What .
MR.. .BRUER: One rod.
MR. CHAIRMAN : One rod.
MRS . WICKHAM: Sixteen and a: half feet.
MR. CHAIRMAN : During the entire length? .
MR. RRUER: '. Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you have a copy of .the original survey .
We just have a copy of ,it. _
MRS.' WICKHAM : Which is the property?
MR. CHAIRMAN : That ' s. not. the ..proper survey . This is an
existing house ."
MRS . WICKHAM: Ok . (Mr .. Bruer showe.d' Mrs . Wickham the map
and outlined the ' area of the right-of-,way f.or ._her perusal )
Southold Town Board of Appeals -27- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3246 - CARRIG & McDONALD , continued : )
MRS. WICKHAM: Ok. As I said , I was just contacted , so I haven ' t
had a chance to speak to Mr. Carrig . My client ' s only concern if
there is any soil removed from the property , it be retained on the
property , and I see they do recommend some topsoil be removed , so
we would like to discuss that with you people before it ' s done .
And he also indicated there were aacouple ;.df drainage:::: pipes under
the road that he would like retained. I ' m sure they can work that
out.
MR.. BRUER: We ' re only going to do what they make us do .
MRS. WICKHAM: Yes .
MR® CHAIRMAN : Woul'd' you. li,ke .us to recess this for a few
minutes so that you can .review__.that with Mr.. Bruer?
MRS . WICKHAM: Those are the only two things. I don ' t have
any objection to ' the application . _.
MR. BRUER I don ' t think there would be a problem.
MRS . WICKHAM: That' s really between 'the owner of the fee
and the people that have the right-of-way .' It doesn '.t affect
the board .
MR. CHAIRMAN : No. Just quickly , any, soil removed you want
retained on site?
MRS. 'WICKHAM: That was what he said ,tonight , but I think
we,',11 - h.a.ve to see the extent of-rthe removal and work it out
between us . That ' s. not a concern of the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you have any objections?
MR.. BRUER: No. We ' re going to work it out ourselves , but
I don ' t. thi.nk it should be part. of the board' s decision .
MR. CARRIG,,.. : The removal is only on the existing roadway ,
the topsoil . And there are no drai_nageepipes that I know of. ,
MRS. WICKHAM: He seemed to think there were a couple .
MR. CARR.IG: Fo.r the most "part , we would attempt to put a
drainage pipe in , _for all of th_e_ water on ,one side to the. other ,
but th_ere.' s. no pipe there now.
MRS . WICKHAM: He ' s just obviously concerned about farm
drainage not being affected, so. As I _ safd , that will be
worked. out between the two ._ I just wanted to look at the
application . _
MR.. BRUER: Thank you very much .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -28-. June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3246 = CARRIG .& 'McDONALD, cont;inued: )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Is there anybody else that would like
to speak against the application? Questions from anyone? Board
members? Hearing no further questions , I '11 make a motion closing
the hearing and reserving decision .
On motion by Mr. Goehringer , seconded by Mr. Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , to 'close 'the 'heari'tig '.and"re,serve 'decision in the
matter of the application of PAT UCK 'CARRIG 'and MARK 'S . 'McDONALD ,
Appeal No. 3246 .- . -- - -
Vote of .the Board : 'Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , 'Dou,g-Lass and' Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted 'by. .all the members ...
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal. No . 3206 .. Application of HENRY 'P .
SMITH._, H.obart Road_, Southold , NY for -a Variance - to the Zo.ni.ng
Ordinance-, Article V'II Section 1.-0.0-.71 ,. B.ulk' Schedule , for
approval of two parcels with insufficient -area and- width in this
B-1 Business District , located at. t.he West Side of .Peconic Lane ,
on the south side of .the L , I ..' R. R. , Peconic ; County Tax Map
Parcel. No*.. 1000-.74-5-2. an4. 3. (9 . 2) .
The Chairman opened. =the hearing at 9:01 p':m.', 'and read the legal
notice of this heari ng.....i-n its- entirety and, appeal f ap.pl i cati on , _with
affidavit of :.Henry P... Smith .
MR. .CH_AIRMAN : . We have_ a copy of .a survey prepared. November 9 ,
1983 by VanT'uyl & Son and we have, a copy of th-e S_uffol k County
Tax Map indica.ting this and surrounding properties In the area .
Would you like to be heard in behalf of this matter?
PHILIP J . OFRIAS, JR. , ESQ. : The application is pretty well
' as stated in_ Mr.w_- Smi't'h. '..s,,.-affi.daVi.t. :`':What;_he..proposes _to do_, the-,
main building " there .that houses the post office and grocery store
and the laurdromat , is in need of extensive repair. Mr. Smith ' s.
father was not interested or undertaking t-he task -and - Mr. Smith
is now the owner , he ' s not either , but he :does require the southerly
building which they use for equipment storage i.n adjunct to their ---
business on the Main Road. They have trucks and equipment that
they keep there The application if granted would cause no change
whatsoever in either d'f:::the:. buildings. There will be no changes
made , no fences , no construction , no physical changes whatsoever ,
to someone driving by , to someone driving down the. road , there
would not appear to have been any change. at all . What it is , Mr .
Smith has found someone willing to purchase t.h_e building and
expend .what we woul d estimate _to be_ i in the vi ci n_i ty_ of $60 ,000 -
$70 ,000 to make extensive repairs that are, necessary .._ We ' d. like
to sell that building to- that man because he would, like to have
it and.., also Mr. Smith would. like to not own it a_nym_ore,
. Because of .the fact it is a small. lot., the overall parcel
is approximate'ly one-half ,acre , this_ _woul d create two .-parcels.,
each', being
wouppldobemlitt leau nderterr. Butacre ,._think ne will be a little
over.
ink the primary thrust
II
Southold Town 'Boara of Appeals -29- June 2'i , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3206 - HENRY P . SMITH, cont,inued : )
I
MR . OFRIAS (continued) :
of our application to this board is that the granting of the applica-
tion would cause no physical change whatsoever :to the physical
plan that' s there or to the uses that are going on . The present
uses that have been there for years and years would continue
without change .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Is there anything else you would like to say ,
Mr. Ofrias?
MR. OFRIAS : I don ' t. believe there ' s. �,anything else .
. MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok .
MR. OFRIAS: We ' re having some trouble with the Planning Board ,
as far as the parking . They Want--.
MR. CHAIRMAN : That was my question.. How . do you intend to,,-
come up with the 24 parking spaces?
MR. OFRIAS : There ' s. no way to come up with 24 parking spaces ,
just on asquare footage basis ,._ it ' s not there . I just got this
letter from the Planning. Board yesterday , ;and starting at noon
yesterday , we ' ve been doing an hourly count of the number of cars
there, and from noon till 5 :00 .0 ' cl_ock yesterday , and then starting
at 7 :00 o ' clock this morning until 5 :00 o' clock tonight , the most
cars that were ever there at any one time Iwere .6i',ght,, and most of
them were parked on the roadway_. I shouldn ' t. say most of the eight
were parked on the roadway , bu_t there are always cars on the
roadway . And then if there are three or four cars there , then
somebody p.u,lls into _the lot .onto the side .' The Planning Board
y y p g p don ' t. _see any way we
i f,.:the sta _..__with the 24 _ arks n places , I
can co_mply .._ Now it has been suggested that maybe we all ow'some
parking on in front of the garage that Mr., Smith intends to keep ,
but we can ' t even put10 cars--we have a .plan for 14 parking
spaces . They want : 10_:,:mor.e. We can ' t even. put_ these 10 , more
p_arki ng spaces i n _front of the garage , we 'id, block the entrance
way to the garage substantially . I' think ,that in my speaking
with the Planning. Board , the secretary of !the Planning. Board,
it ' s my understanding that they imposed a ,r.equ_i_rement_ of one.
parking space for every 100 sq.. ft.., based !'on. the section of the
ordinance which refers to shopping centers... I attempted on
numerous occasions. to get ahold of David Emilita about this .
I ' ve been unsuccessful in getting ahold of him to speak with , him.
I think they ' re in error. I had submitted my proposal to the
Planning. Board for 14 parking spaces based on .my .understanding
that we needed ,one ._space for, every 200 sq e ft. which we can
comply with , and which our proposal does . So we have & parking
plan with 1.4 spaces . If they .want one parking for every 100
_s_q . ft. and if they stand by that, we cannot comply with that.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -30- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3206 - HENRY P. SMITH, continued : )
MR. OFRIAS (continued) :
I ' d like to think that when I get ah.ol.d of somebody and sit down
and talk to over there , and particularly i'f we run .this count
on the parking for a period of weeks , �_,which we ' re going to do ,
I think that it will show there ' s no way you need 24-- I don ' t
think they put 24 cars there at. the same time forever.
MR. CHAIRMAN : What do you suggest that we do , Mr. Ofrias?
Recess this hearing until the July meeting?
MR. OFRIAS: What ' s the date of .your. Ju'ly meeting?
MR. CHAIRMAN : It would ,proba,b1y' be the early part of July ,
the second week , third wee_K.
MR. OFRIAS: I think so . . That might .give me the opportunity
to get ahold of .the ,Planning Board and , you see , I just received
the letter yesterday__ and di.dn ' t. have any_..opportunity to speak
with them about
MR. CHAIRMAN : I think. that. w.o..uld. be the most equitable
thing here because I think if. .we. close the hearing on the basis
of the fact that we ' re de.ali:ng with 24 cars ,. thdn ...we ' re definite-
ly goi n.g to. have a pro,bl em;, i n . d;e.l.i berati ng. upon thi s particular
application . So I think. that , it..' s. the most viable thing to _do
would be to recess the hearing unt.il the next board hearings ,
and hopef,u.11y you '.11 have that resolved and then we ' ll know
exactly _h.ow__many we.-. have to de.al' with at that particular time .
Ok?
MR . OFRIAS: Ok . Thank you very much .
MR. CHAIRMAN. Thank you . Would anybody else. like to be
heard ' in behalf of this application? Anybody. like to be heard
against the application? ..(No one )/ Questions_ from board
members? (None ) Hearing no further . questions ,._, I ' l1 make a
motion recessing this hearing. until the next Regul_ar'. Meeting ,
which will --give us a call some time after the 4th o_f ' July ,
and we ' ll_ give you a date on it , sir. .
MR. OFRIAS: Fine . Thank you very much .
MR.. CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Thank you very much for coming in .
On motion by Mr. Goehringer , seconded' by Mr. Douglass , it was
RESOLVED, to recess Appeal No. 3206 , heari-ng of HENRY P .
SMITH until the next Regular Meeting of this board .i. n. JUL'Y _1984 ,
tentatively July 26th ) . __
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . . This resolution was unani.mously
Southold Town Boar.. if Appeals -31 - June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3206 - HENRY 'P . SMITH , continued : )
adopted by all the members .
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No . 3231 . Application for DOUGLAS
'MILLE.R, Montauk Hi.ghway., Quogue , 'NY for a_ .Variance for approval
of .accesses , New York Town L.aw, Se.ct.ion 280-.A over _two private
rights-of-way , one known as. "Kirkup Lane" a.nd one as "L.aurel Way"
locate.d at the south side of :Sound. Avenue , Mattituck ," .(Near,
Laurel ) , to premises identified as County Tax Map Parcel No .
1000-121 -4-10 containing approximately 7 . 2 acres .
The Chairman opened the hearing at 9:09 p .m. and read the legal
notice of this hearing in its entirety and ap.p.eal application .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We have a copy of a survey dated. February 25 ,
1984 and then updated April. 10 ,, ;1984_ indicating the nature of
these rights-of-way and.. a _copy of the Suffolk ..County Tax Map
indicating this and surround_i_ng properties ._in the area. Mr.
Guldi , would to be heard i.n behalf of .this application?
GEORGE GULDI , ESQ . : Yes , I would. The .application lies on--
this is essentially a, bifurcated application , i.n,:that,'..there are
two rights-of-way.- We really only need one means of access to
the parcel . . The two rights-of-way are existing roadways , although
there ' s. a. complication with respect to the Kirkup Lane right-of-way.
.The Laurel Way right-of-way is described as such in the deed.
The Kirkup Road right-of-way is not a deeded right=of-,way,; . but Is
one that we submit- was acquired through adverse user by the belief
of the prior owner , Mulvihill , for 22 years . This was. his deeded.
right-of-way . A belief .that we. could see was mistaken . We ' ve
submitted an affidavit of Mulvihill to that affect in "that it
only came to his attention _that his deeded right-of-way was off-
adjacent , was parallel . to , along side of Kirkup Road and not
across Kirkup Road . . When our surveyor prepared this survey, he
brought it to our attention , then we brought it to his , by,.,. his ,
I mean Joseph Mulvihill , the prior owner ' s son . I ' ve submitted
his affidavit with respect to- the use of Kirkup Road . As the
engineer ' s. report indicates , and as we believe. the condition and
use of .Kirkup , Road as an access was far more desirable then the
use of 'Laurel Way because of the condition, of the road and the
directness of the route . The board has a letter from Abigail
Wickham , the counsel for Peconic Homes that the new owner_ of. the
adjacent. land over which Kirkup Road runs , she has stated that
it ' s her .opinion that we have not acquired a right-of-.way by
adverse user . We have , I think it ' s fair 'to say, we- are going
to attempt to discuss with Peconic Homes the possibility _of
some licensing arrangement where we negotiated the determination
Southold Town Boara of Appeals -32- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3231 . - 'DOUGLAS MILLER., continued : .)
MR. GULDI (continued) :
of that question , although we have not had an opportunity to do that.
Meanwhile , unfortunately , while we are also an applicant who
signed a January contract anal have a seller that' s. ve.ry anxious
that we close . At the moment while we .have an application pending
with the Planning Board , well , at� the moment we .don ' t even have
access to. the land and as such it ' s unbuildable and cannot close .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Mr . Guldi , we in our engineer ' s report do not
have any problem with Ki.rkup Way . We think. that the major brunt
of that road is in reasonab.1y good condition , regardless -- it ' s
a . moot point at this particular time if .you had a right-of-way
over it- or not . The issue here is when -we- went and .j.ns_pected. --
apart from the engineer ' s. report-- the Laurel Way right--of-way
we found that the lake has curre_n„tly cut in and .has _barred yo.0
from the actual ri..ght of .using that right-of-way .
MR. GULDI : Could you show me on the survey where you mean
that? I _saw it in the engineer ' s. report and dial not understand it.
MR . CHAIRMAN : It does not show on this survey .
MR. GULDI : Ok . Could you show me where on the survey where
the water was observed?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Right here .
MR. GULDI : If you could mark this copy. All right . The
current , the exi st_i n_g right-of-way for Ki rku_p Road_ , e_xcuse me ,
for Laurel Way does _not extend.—al_l the way to the property . That
easement is an easement from the deed that was in Mac_ari ' s.
chain of .title , so basic_a.11y , 'my, easement is a right to go
from my property l i ne to. La_ur.:el._ Way'..across his l a_n_d , at least
As I understand it . Laurel Way does not reach the Miller parcel
at the present time , .and that road would have to be extended to.
the parcel if .it were to be considered_ as an access road .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Can you give us a copy of that?
MR. GULDI : The deed I believe it ' s. in the file .
MR . CHAIRMAN : The copy of Macari ' s deed indicating this?
MR'. GULDI : Macari ' s. deed , no , Macari ' s. chain of title is
from Jarzombek . My deed to Mulvihill is from Jarzombek . _So my
_deed is in his chain of title even _i.f it ' s. not referred to in._
his deed.
y MR . CHAIRMAN : What you ' re saying is that in Macari ' s. chain
of .title it indicates --
Southold Town Board of Appeals -33- June 2) , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal. . No . 3231 - DOUGLAS MILLER, continued : )
MR . GULDI : Well Jarzombek was the prior owner of the Macari
property ._._
MR. CHAIRMAN : Right.
MR. GULDI : Jarzombek , the deed from Jarzombek , Mulvihill , is
in the file and it grants me a right-of-way across Laurel Way. Ok?
Inheritance--in right-of-way across Laurel.. Way is the right-of-way
to the end of Laurel Way .
MR_. CHAIRMAN : And we have that in the deed that you-
MR. GULDI : The deed that you have in the file , the right-of-way
is described. Across Laurel Way.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Is there anybody else that would like
to speak in behalf of this application? (No one ) _ Mr . Guldi , before
we get.-.past and get into anybody else , what ' s going to be the nature
of the situation. here . If .We grant the right-.of-way over Laurel Way ,
are you going to entertain the improvements that we.- are going to
require?
MR . GULDI : Of Laurel Way?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. GULDI : I don ' t. know what improvements-- I saw the survey--
I ' ve been . across Laurel Way . I don ' t- know that it could be done..°
MR. CHAIRMAN : That was my question .
MR. GULDI : I ' ve seen it too. I agree . I can ' t imagine the
existing landowners consenting to such improvements . I really
don ' t know what to do about the use of Laurel Way . Obviously , we
would prefer to work out an arrangement- for the use of Kirkup Road
since it ' s more direct and it' s. in better condition , and certainly
makes more sense considering the character of the area .
MR. CHAIRMAN : So why don ' t we recess this hearing until the
next Regular Meeting so t"hat you can deal with Miss Wi,.ckham. .
MR. GULDI : And her client. The only problem I have with that
is is dealing with my seller. _.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I see .
MR. GULDI : From January until July he ' s beginning to get a
little jittery. I had.. conversations,_. wi.th him today , and he is
anxious to close .
MR. CHAIRMAN : You ' re only talking two or three weeks though .
MR .' GULDI : The next regularly scheduled meeting , is that
July 14th.?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Some time around mid-July.
Southold Town Boara of Appeals -34- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3231 - DOUGLAS MILLER, continued : )
MR . GULDI : I don ' t know that we ' d be able necessarily to
accomplish anything in that period of time any way. Given the
recent acquisition, of the parcel , the Kirkup Road, lies across
the lot ' s current owner.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . I thank you . Is there anybody else that
would like to speak against the application--is there .anybody
that would lik to speak against this application? Do you have
any other questions?
MRS . WICKHAM: I ' d just like to reiterate that Peconic Homes
now has acquired the property, ".that is a corporation owned by
David and Jerry Horton , who _are willing to talk to these people
but I don ' t see how they have any claim of right whatsoever to
that roadway. They do have from the deed I saw a right-of-way
along Kirkup Lane from Sound -Avenue that they (nay ' want to
consider . But at this point , we don ' t have an agreement
whatsoever.
MR. GULDI : That is the third possibility and that would
require bulldozing a substantial amount of the wood land at
the tail end of the road. It is a possibility that is not
certainly desirable . We would be more interested in exploring
the -others . As is my opinion that we do have and have acquired
a right-of-way by adverse user across Kirkup Road not along , not
along it for the reason set forth in the affidavit of Joseph
Mulvihill that' s been submitted to this board and is in your file .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok . But we are dealing specifically with
Kirkup Lane as ' the nature of this particular 280-A as the
alterna.te--or the primary--
MR. GULDI : As the primary . You know , if--frankly if this
board were to deny the application on Kirkup Way , then the
secondary choice would be along Laurel Way rather than bulldozing
a new road parallel through...the.:Kirkup Lane for the full length .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I thank you . Any questions from board members?
(None ) Hearing no further questions , I ' ll make .a motion closing
the hearing and reserving decision unt.il .later .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr. Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , to 'close 'the hearing and reserVe 'decision in the
matter of-the appli-cation .of DOUGLAS MILLER, Appeal No .. 3231 .
Vote of .the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by _,a.11 the members .
A five-minutes recess was taken at ' 9: 26 p.m. after motion was made
by Mr . Sawicki , seconded by Mr. Goehringer , and duly carried
unanimously .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -35- June 21 , lvb4 Regular Meeting
The meeting reconvened at approximately 9 : 41 p .m. after motion by Mr .
Grigonis , seconded by Mr . Doyen , and unanimously carried.
RECESSED PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal No . 3232 .
Application for BERTRAM. .AND MARGERY WALKER, by R.T. Haefeli , Esq . ,
Box 757 , RIverhead , NY for a Variance t.o the Zoning Ordinance , Article
III , Section 100-31 , for : (a ) an interpretation that the existing
cottage and garage are valid preexisting , nonconforming uses and
structures ; (b ) approval of a wooden deck as an accessory structure
in the sideyard; (c ) approval of a reduction of livable floor area
of a proposed dwelling conversion to 500 sq . ft. and approval of
insufficient sideyards . Premises located at ,Edgemere .Park , .MacDonald ' s
Path off ,Peconic. -B'ay:. Bo.ulevard , Laurel ; County. Tax Map Parcel. No .
.1000-145_4-014.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Haefeli .
RICHARD. T. HAEFELI ;. ESQ . : I. thi.nk' y.ou asked for a copy of .the
subdivision map as f,ijed in. the Suffolk County Clerk '.s.. Offi.ce . , I ' ve
obtained a copy of -that for' yo:u . (Mr,. Haefeli handed the chairman
a copy of .the "Edgemere Park subdivision map as f,i,led under. File No : 742 .
on July .2 , 1931.;_ Abstract No .. 1067 .. for the record . )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you very much .
MR . HAEFELI : I ' d. like Mrs .. Beatrice Wasson 'to come. up . She
was the lady I wanted to bring the.- last .time and who was not .availa.ble
at the, 1"ast time , and she can give "a history as to her knowledge -of "
the cottage ,
MR'. CHAIRMAN : Mrs . Wasson , can I ask you to raise your right hand
please? (Mrs. ' Wasson raised her right hand.. ) Do you solemnly swear
.that everything you ' re going to say in this testimony. is fact?
MRS . WASS.ON : True .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you .
MRS . WASSON : I was asked to come here tonight and before , 'to speak
about ' an_ attached cottage which. belon.ged. to Mrs .__MacDonald. when I knew
her in 1948 or ' 49. It was in that area . And now there-' s-. a question as
to Mr. and Mrs . Walker mother being sent out of ,the house that is now
being made livable . . She is 84 years- old . And. this is something I can ' t
understand,,where neighbors can _do this to one another. However_, that ' s.
neither here nor there . What I ' d. like to say is that I knew that to be
a livable cottage . In. 1949 , her si..ster Moll'ey, lived in it when they
didn '.t."get along .. Mrs . MacDonald , her name wa.s Bertha but she was
called ..Bea , _and we were very good friends , and** I knew Mr. MacDonald--
his name was Stuart C. MacDonald , .and . once in, awhile her sister and -she
wouldn ' t. get .along , so she would go over and. live .in the cottage . And
then she _had a maid . She was _a black girl who wore a black uniform.
My children .a.11 knew h,er. My nephew , Roger. Fleshutes' (spel1ing? ). was
— the chauffeur for Mrs . MacDonald . Took Mrs . MacDonald and the maid back
and forth to New Yo.rk ,. but the maid. lived i.n that cottage . There was heazt
Southold Town Board of Appeals -36- June 21 , 1 984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3232 - BERTRAM AND MARGERY WALKER, continued : )
MRS. WASSON (continued ) :
-There was light. There was water. There was a stove. There was
sleeping facilities . There was everything there available . So I 'm
sure nothing was done after that. Then it was sold to Mr. Fulcher .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Can you give us some time period when that might
have been , Mrs : Wasson?
MR.: . CHA:IRMAN : When the MacDon:alds had owned this premises?
MRS. WASSON : Sure . Between-- I built my home in 1950. 'My
brother built in; 1949. And that house was_. bu.ilt the year, 1948 ,." 1949
before that .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Tha.nk' you. .Very much .
JAMES CR.ON , ES'Q . : Mr. Cha.irm.an , since it i.s a sworn. witness--
may I ask the .wi.tness a few questions?
MR. CHAIRMAN : If .you use that mike . Do -you have any objection ,
Mr. Haefel.i ? .
MR. HA.EFELI : No , I don ' t.. I was under the impression that ques-
tions , came through the attorney--.
MR. CHAIRMAN : I was just going to say that--. , you ' re welcome to
use the mike , but' you ' re going ,to have to .address. the ques;t.i.gns to
the board.
MR. CRON : Yes , Mr. Chairman . I would request that the board ask
Mrs . Wasson if .i_n fact .the MasDon.alds used the property more than on -
a seasonal basis?
MRS. WASS.ON : No . They didn" t. live there all winter.
MR. CRON : And di -- excuse me .
MRS. WASSON : No .. They didn ' t. live there in the winter . It was
in the summer', and fa.11 , - an_d spring . It was prob.a.bly six mo.nths out
of the year.
MR. CRON : Mr. Chairman , in particular , was the dwelling_--excuse
me , the structure .which is the subject matter in this ap:p.l i c.ati on used
during that six month period that they were there?
MRS . WASSON : Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : . And for six months it was , not used? .
MRS® WAS.S.ON.: Well I didn ' t. go over to check on it .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -37- June 21 , ivo4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3232 - BERTRAM AND MARGERY WALKER, continued : )
MR. CRON : Well you checked on it for the six months it was used.
MRS . WASSON : Please , sir , I knew them very well and we were very
friendly . They came weekends , and what they di.d al.l. the time I wouldn ' t
know. But I know it was available .
MR. CRON : Mr. Chairman , would you ask the witness if in fact the
two structures on the property were winterized and closed, for .the winter.
MR. CHAIRMAN : What do you mean by that?
MR. CRON : That the buildings were not used for six months out of
the year . That the people who . lived there during. the seasonal use of_
the buildings packed up.. .and, lived elsewhere .
MRS . WASSON : I can ' t. answer that truthf,u.l'ly because they came
weekends .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Weekends .a,ll yearround , Mrs . Wasson , do you know?
MRS . WASSON : Not during the winter.
MR. CRON : Tha.nk you , Mr. Chairman and Mrs . Wasson .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you again , Mrs . Wasson . Mr . Haefeli , do you
have any other witnesses?
MR. HA:EFELI : Yes . I ' d,. like Mr. Walker to come up so he can testify
please?
MR . CHIARMAN : Mr. WAlker , wo.uld' you raise your right hand please?
(Mr. Walker raised -his. -right hand . ). Do you sole_m.nly swear that the
testimony that you ' re about to give is the truth , the whole truth and
nothing but the truth?
MR. WALKER: I do .
MR. HA.EFELI : Just give them the history .
MR. WALKER: We moved into the house. .=h..:, the cottages on the property
in 1976 . And we used he cottage , the children used the cottage . My one
son lived there during the winter , and in the Year 1980 ,. my mother came
out and we remodeled .and made a beautiful stud.io apartment out of it ,
which it was before , but we remodeled it , and she ' s living there full
time , yearround.,, as we are . Now what I want to say is that the house
and ,cottage both weren ' t,..a:..yearr.ound.-.residence. .. It was a summer resi -
dence . We made a full year residence out of the house and we did the
cottage . Oh , and I ' d like to show you the picture of the cottage before
we did the remodeling .. (The picture was passed to the board members
through the Chairman:; )
MR. HAEFELI : Would you tell them about when that picture was taken?
MR . WALKER : Around the. 197647-, soon after we moved in .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Haefeli ?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -38- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3232 - BERTRAM AND MARGERY WALKER, continued : )
MR . HAEFELI : I have only one other thing , gentlemen , and that is
that the deed from Virginia Fulcher to John Kelly . I believe last time
when Mrs . Kelly testified that she at one point tried to obtain or put
additional buildings on the property that she owned , which I believe
Mr. Ziedler owns now, and I think you will see in that deed there ' s a
covenant restricting the ability to construct so that you could--a person
could not construct on the Kelly property to block the view from the
Fulchers ' house . Maybe that was the reason why she could not do any
.additional expansion on her piece of property. Other than that I have
nothing further . (Mr . Haefeli handed the Chairman a five-page deed
recorded at Liber 6994 page 127 dated August 20 , 1971 ,. for the record. )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Mr. Cron?
MR. CRON : Thank you , Mr. Chairman . At this time , I would. like to
hand up a certified copy of the decision of .Justice Tedesc.hi on
October 11 , 1983 . I would also like to hand up the affidavits of
Ann L . Kelly , Mabel and .John.. Costanza , who were the prior owners
before th.e .Careys.: . (Letter dated December 5 , 1981. signed by Ann L .
Kelly and witnessed by Joan A. Jacobs ,-.:and:.two. : separate affidavits
notarized Decemberl0 ,: 1981 of John S . Costanza and Mabel Costanza ,
were all submitted and made part of .the record. )
MR . CRON : Gentlemen , in particular , I draw your attention to
page two of the decision of .Justice Tede_schi . The. last paragraph
specifically refers to an .accessory structure on the property.
Obviousl y,. .there would have to be a merger of .use for ..,an _,accessory
structure to be on the property . In other words ,__ 'it has to be --
accessory to something-that would be the dwelling that is on the
property .
On page three of Justice Tedeschi ' s. decision , he mentions that
the seco._nd dwelling on the premises was illegal . Obviously , the
entire four building lots would have to be considered one premises
to have two dwe.11in_gs._ on .it , and therefore be .illegal . Gentlemen ,
the legalities in this particular case have been established. This
matter has been litigated , ;a.11__ pertinent witnesses were called at
the time of .tri,al and subject. to cross-examination by defense
counsel , who is in the exact same law firm that is representing
the applicant tonight . What I ' m. s_ayin_g to you is that this board
should _not determine legalities . The, _leg,al.ities 'have .been estab-
1'i shed. Do not sit as an.. Appeals. Board._._ Do not review what
somebody has already been convicted of..
Also , 'gentlemen , I ' d. like to direct your attention to the
purpose of ..buil.ding permits and certificates of .occupancy . Many
._times in the paper transit that goes on , we fail to realize what
the purpose is. The purpose is to insure that the dwel..lings
involved are safe, and that the health of .the neighbors. ._are_ insured.
These individuals decided that their neighbors ' _welfa.re was not
of paramount concern and that their own _particular_. individual
_ i..nterests were of paramount concern . Therefore., they took themselves
Southold Town Board of Appeals -39- June 21 , iyts4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3232 - BERTRAM AND MARGERY WALKER, continued : )
MR. CRON (continued) :
both above the neighbors who reside in that subdivision with them ,
the laws of the State of New York , and are open tonight to come
before this board tonight , and say, "Gentlemen , sanction what we
did wrong . Allow us to keep what is illegal . Allow us to break
the law. And allow us to step on the neighbors . " I think ,
gentlemen , in some summation , this board can plainly see this
application is devoid of any merit. Thank you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : . Would anybody else like to speak against the
application? Mr. Ziedler.
RICHARD ZIEDLER: I have just handed the board a map of Edge-
mere Park , that I got yesterday at the County Clerk ' s Office . It ' s
dated July 2 , 1931 . If you look at the little _subdivision that
it is , if you look at .Lot 19 . Lot 19 is a rather large lot , but it
has two buildings on it. One where a man lives in it . Number two ,
a cottage . _ Or a playhouse . Or a tool she Whatever it is , it ' s
there . If you loo._k at lot 137 , 159, _149, there ' s a man who has a
house , he has a two-car garage , -separate from the house . They too
have had people sleep in it at various times . But you go down to
.the Lot #8 , #8 ha_s a house ; it has a separate two-car garage that
can be used for any of .the things you ' re being asked to use . Lot
#9 and #10 have a .house and a separate garage . Lot #1.1 not only
has a house, it has a 'garage , and it has beds in it where the kids
sleep . I don ' t. know whether they' ve . had chauffeurs or not. But
it ' s there . I;.,own Lot 12 , 13 and 14. I have a house . Lot 14
has an easement view. And I would think that if you passed .some-
thing like being asked to be passed here tonight , some place you
could sneak a:.little something in there for me . I say to you
that this little subdivision can ' t stand six or seven more little
dwellings . Drive down the road--it' s full of holes. The water
comes from out on the street 900 feet away--that ' s where the wells
are because you could not get a well ( ) for our homes . Sewage. --
Tbt '.s :not even talk about that. That - has become such a tremendous
..problem. I think most of us that live there don ' t want to hurt
anybody. But we don ' t want to see any profit here . We don ' t want
to see land split. We just think this is wrong . A lot of us have
a big investment . A lot of us would like to live Yearround , and
it just upsets to have to stand in. front of you and. plead. If you
grant this , you got to grant the neighbor. You got to grant the
next one . Let ' s. not mess up this little place . It ' s nice . Thank you .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you . Is there anybody else that would like
to speak against the application? Anything_. you would like to say in
rebuttal , Mr. Haefeli ?
MR. HAEFELI : This board' s. purpose is to, grant variances . This
board ' s purpose is also to interpret this code . I ' m not disputing
what Judge Tedeschi said. I 'm. not disputing what Judge Tedeschi did.
But if you take the logic of Mr. Cron ,_. it means that if a person goes
Southold Town Board of Appeals -40- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No'. 3232 - BERTRAM AND 'MARGERY WALKER, continued : )
MR. HAEFELI (continued ) :
out , does something without a building permit , and is found guilty
of that , they can never under any circumstances come to this board
to ask for relief. I admit we built the extension or we expanded
that room--that area without a building permit. We ' re here tonight
to correct the situation . And the fact that there was a prior
decision in the Justice Court should not have bearing on this board
tonight or take away from this board' s right , obligations and duties
to pass upon the application . You have the jurisdiction . The
Justice Court made a determination in a criminal nature. Yours
is the jurisdiction as to what the code says , what the code means ,
and what relief you can give to this 'applicant and to every other
applicant in this town . This was a summer cottage back in 1948 .
It was a summer cottage up until 1980. It ' s the same as many other
summer cottages in this town , that .at some po:i,ntii.n time they went
from being a-_fr..om:.a seasonal nature to a yearround nature . And
many other people have converted homes that have initially started
out for summer use only , winterized them , and have been using them
on a yearround basis . This particular cottage is being used by the
mother of Mr . Walker. He ' s providing a place for her to live._.
There are too few people today that are providing for their parents .
This is a way that it .can be done . We have a 500 sq . ft . --approxi -
mately 500 sq . ft. apartment with two small bedrooms . You people
have been in it.. A living room and a kitchen . On a lot that under
your code -- that 's., a- single: and '.separate lot. All of the testimony--
there i sn-' t. a person that came in here tonight or.-.at: the 1 ast�._
hearing , that . said that that structure was not there prior to the
effective date of the zoning code of this town . So at the very
least , we have a summer cottage with an attached garage going back
to 1948. '.`.That structure has remained in the :same location from48
to today . And if this board makes that interpretation , this board
would then find that no variances would be needed as far as the
location of the structure , and that the only variances that would
be needed would be as to the size of the residence itself. But if
this board finds that it was a residence in ''48 and continued until
the present time , then that interpretation would eliminate the need
for the granting of any variances .' We would then ,come down to one
final ting--and that is the deck . And I don 't think that deck really
affects anybody. We ' re asking for a variance because it was put in
the sideyard , because that ' s where the mai.n door in and out is , and
it just makes it convenient to use it .-
So in conclusion , gentlemen_ , the lot is a legal single and
separate lot , has been .used_ for residential purposes since prior
to the effective date of the..,zoning code in .thi.s town , and .I believe
my clients are entitled to an interpretation to -.that effect, and
that they are entitled to maintain that cottage and the garage as
it is , orc:at least in the alternative , that they ' re' entitled to
the necessary variances that they ' ve requested so that it can remain .
And that ' s all I have .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -41 - June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3232 - BERTRAM AND MARGERY WALKER, continued : )
(At this time Mr . and Mrs . Walkers consulted with their attorney , Mr .
Haefeli , for a few moments . )
MR. CRON : In the interim, may I respond to that?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. CRON : There are a few points which I would like to take issue .
Counsel has mentioned that many of the residents i.n the Town of
Southold have converted what once might have been garages and cottages
into livable dwellings . Granted , gentlemen . But what did they do to
convert them? They became before this board if necessary . They
definitely obtained building.-permits , which are necessary. And they
obtained Certificates of Occupancy , which are necessary before someone
can live in the building. Secondly , as concerns Justice Tedeschi ' s
decision which convicted the peti.tioners in this particular case ,
Justice Tedeschi in his decision interprets the zoning ordinances .
It is a criminal conviction based on reasonable doubt . A conviction
which bore a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt , something
which you gentlemen are not being asked to consider , therefore , a
higher burden .of ..proof. Finally , gentlemen , there ' s one other issue
which I would like to take point with .
The petitioner is n.ot asking that his parent remain in this
building . The petitioner is asking for this board to determine
that that particular lot could be .sold to a third party . That is
quite a distinction between the emotion heard tonight . He is saying
that this is a separate building lot with a separate structure on it
which I can legally sell to a third party , that is a far cry from
his 84-year-old .mother ..living in the garage . Thank you , 9entlemen .
MR. CHAIRMAN : As long as,.:we don ' t get into personalities , Mr .
Haefeli --
MR . HAEFELI : I really don ' t. want to belabor the point . I ' m
going .to doubly emphasize the fact that th:is.._board has jurisdiction
over the zoni.ng . code , irrespective of what Judge Tedesc_hi said .
But number two , Judge Tedeschi also gave them a conditional
discharge , the condition being that they .come before this board and
request the relief that we ' re requestin.g .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Are there any further comments? Questions from
board members? , (None ) Hearing no further questions , I ' ll make a
motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until .later.
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Messrs . Douglass and
Grigonis , the hearing was declared closed an_d decision reserved
until later in the matter of. :.BE.RTRAM 'AND MARGERY WALKER, Appeal
No . 3232 .
Vote of .the. Board: Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Doyen , Grigonis ,
Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was adop_ted. by unanimous vote .
Southold Town Board of. Appeals -42- June 21 , iv84 Regular Meeting
PUBLIC HEARING : Appeal. No. 3234 .
Application of ARTHUR 'R.. 'TRUCKENBRODT; et .'al . , 'Private .Road ,
Orient , NY for a reversal of ,the interpretation of. ,the building
inspector concerning a Certificate of _Occupancy No . 21,1736 issued
June 21 , .1983 to E. Loucopoulos and _H. Damianos for an one-family
dwelling _and four accessory .cottage structures at Private Road
No . 7 (a/k/a Diedericks Road) ,. Ori.ent; County Tax Map Parcel No .
1000=18-03-005. [Current Owners : D,'I . Abbott and. J.®_Ta._- Swanson .]
The Ch,airm.an . opened the hearing at approximate1y, 1O :O9 p .m.
and read the. legal notice of hearing in its entirety__.
MR.. CHAIRMAN : I w.i..11 ask' .y.ou to allow .me to dispense with
read everything here . Th-e board has red this and I want to
briefl.y sketch Exhibit so that everybody .is .aware of. ,what. is
going_ ._on here , but I would rather not.- read every bit or piece
that ' s. here .
HO.W.ARD. E. PAC'H.MAN , ESQ . : We.'.11 expedite, it as, long as' your
record is` appropr atoa I will have no objection .
.MR. .C.HAIRM._N : Thank'. you C(.The Chairman read Exhibit. B of
the. ap,p_l i c.ati on .v )- I- have __a 'c_opy of. .the .survey map indicating
the nature and .placement of .the_ cottages in question dated Octo-
ber 31 ,, 1983;. and I have. a copy of the Suffolk .County. Tax *Map
indicating- this and surr.o.undi�ng .p.roperties in. the. .areae Mr .
Pachman .
HOWARD 'E . .PACHMAN , ESQ . : Mr.- 'Chairman . I . hope I can bring
t h i s close enough' and _I hope I speak l.oud'ly enough_ that I don ' t,
need any mi cropho.ne and you,_:bb`:.abl a to he.ar me . ,
MR. CHAI-R'MAN : If anybody has problems hearing in. the back
of .the room , please 1_et us know._
MR. PACH.MAN : At. the out.s.et--;my name is 'Howard Pachman ., I ' m.
an attorn'ey'. - My office is at .366.. Ve _terans Memorial Highway ,
Commack,. Ne_w' .Yo_rk ;. _And I represe.nt .Mr.. Truck.enbrodt and the adja-
cent owners of .all the properties abutting the Abbott and Swanson ,
say for one or two. which I..wi..11 explain i_n a second. Before I
start , I think it' s. fair for .the record that ; I indicate. that I
have been in the past been consulted by a Mr.,: Burke Liburt , who
is a neighbor to one of the memb of ..Zoning of the.' Board ofZoning Appeals .
I think .I want that to be on the record. I ' m not asking nor.. my
- clients a.ski'ng for that member, Mr. Dou.gl ass ; to disqualify himself .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -43- June 21 , 1-984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN (continued) :
from this board. ,,�.t. That':s-: a,:choice that he would want to make . I ' m ,not
asking him to do it , but for the record , I want it to be understood
that I have been in consultation with Mr. 'Liburt about the problem
with the two neighbors , 'and I want the - r_ecord' to show this statement.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Are you ready to take the oath? _
MR. PACHMAN : Yes , I ' m. ready .to take the oath .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Would you raise your right hand?
MR. PACHMAN raised his right hand.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you solemnly .swear that the testimony that you
are about to give is the truth , the. whole truth , and nothing but the
truth?
MR . PACHMAN : I do .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Thank you .
MR. PACHMAN : That' s the fi.r.st. .time I ' ve. been sworn in as an .
attorney .. I would also .like to take something out of .order . I
subpoenaed the Lo. n.g .; .sland Lighting Company , .-:the' record--he. has
appeared with the record , would you mind if . I take him out of
order so he wouldn ' t. have to _.stay? Would the gentleman from the
Lighting Company please standup-Land state your name , and if .the
:..Chairman woul d. ,_1 i.ke' you to be sworn in-
MR. CHAIRMAN : Use the mike , if you would, Sir , please .
JOHN WAHLERS : My name is John Wa,hlers , `W-A-H-L-E-.R-S.
MR. PACHMAN : Mr. Wa.hlers , are you an employee of .the Long Island
Lighting' .Company? .
- MR�: �._WAHL- ERS: I am.
MR. PACHMAN : And was the. Long I.sland Li,ghti6g:,:Company served
with a subpoena by my offi_c.e? .
MR. WAHLERS : It was delivered. to Mineola . Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : And was it so ordered subpoena by the Honorable
Justice DeLuca of .the Supreme Court of .the State of. .New York . And
did it ask you to bring tonight before this board certain books ,
statements and.crecords that.. you have relating to premises sometimes
known as Green Acres ,: Tax Map._,_ Number. 100, Section 081 , Block 03
Lot 005 , located in *Private _Road, :Diedericks Road , East Marion , New
York , in the name of,-, Dorothy I . Abbott and Janet. T. Swanson , or , and
ll l
Southold Town Board of Appeals -44- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
M'R. PACHMAN (continued ) :
I hope I pronounce this name correctly , and i.f I don ' t , please forgive
me , Eurydice Loucopoulos , L-0-U-L-0-P-0-U-L-O,-S , or Herodotos Damianos .
Did you bring those records , Sir? _
MR. WAHLERS: I believe I have those records .
MR. PACHMAN : Do those records indicate when electrical service
serviced that particular parcel of property?
MR. WAHLERS : In what name , Sir?
MR. PACHMAN : In the name of Loucopoulos and Damianos .
MR. WAHLERS: Service was in that name between May the loth , 1974
and August 28 , 1978.
MR. PACHMAN : Do you have any record on those premises--.is ,th.at
for the main house?
MR . WAHLERS: It ' s for the main house .
MR. PACHMAN : What about the cottages?
MR. WAHLERS: The cottages have the same , so the record is the
same for the cottages .
MR. PACHMAN : All right. You may have some new service in the
name of ,Swanson and Abbott , _do .you?. . .
MR. WAHLERS : We do.
. MR. PACHMAN : And when wa.s that service ,applied for?
MR. WAHLERS: I have two applications dated February 13 , 1984.
One application dated March 27 ,. _1.984 - in the name _of Abbott and Swanson .
MR. PACHMAN : Are they for the main house and the cottages?
MR. WAHLERS: These applications are not complete . One is
Cottage. Two . Another for Cottage Two , Cottage One . Cottage Three .
Cotta.ge Four. . Those are just a_ppli.cations .
MR . PACHMAN : Has service been installed, in those cottages yet?
MR. WAHLERS: No meters have been set irn these two that we--the
four that I .just referred to.
MR. PACHMAN : So , Sir, do I understand your testimony , between
1978 and the ' new .ap,plications , there was no electrical service
_servicing the main...bu,ilding o o r the cottages n this p._artic.ular loca-
tion? .
MR. WAHLERS : After 1978 , the services were abandoned, removed.
MR . PACHMAN : I have no further questions .
_ Southold Town Board of Appeals .45 June 21 , : ,014 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No. 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Are you going to permit the other side to--
MR. PACHMAN : It':s up to you . You run the show here , Sir .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I just wanted to ask Mr. Esseks , do you have any
questions of this--
MR. ESSEKS: Over-here ; .. I don ' t .
MR. CHAIRMAN : OhS; :I _d:i�dn ' t. see you over there , Sir . I thought
you were hiding on the other side of the--
MR. ESSEKS: I couldn ' t see the easel .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Oh , I see . Thank you very much , Sr.
MR. WAHLERS: May I be excused?
MR. PACHMAN : Ye's . I have the--he doesn' t have copies of those:.
records , .but I think hi.s=.testi.mony .would suffice in Lieu of supplying--
MR. CHAIRMAN : How would we get copies of .those?
MR. WARLERS: I can supply them if .you need them.
MR. PACHMAN : Would you send copies to the Board of Appeals?
MR. WAHLERS: Board of ,Appeals .
MR. PACHMAN : Right. And send a copy to me please? . Howard Pachman .
MR. WAHLERS : All right.
so thatR. ouCcould seeetheseasel ?o.ulamynotltrying totblockttle closer
y your view.
.. The parcel of property of .Abbott and Swanson consists of. .some 12
acres in Orient, .New' York , and it fronts 'about 435 feet on Long Island
Sound. Access . to that property is. off the Main Road on a right-of-way
which traverses land of Lyons on two, _sides who is also one. of ,.the ,_
objectants and one of my_clients , it passes through land of _Rose
Oha.niah (spbllfi.ng? ) ,_ Smith , Chouinard, and Caufie.ld _and then passes
through Lest i_e ,�.another,..°client , passe' .., Singerman , "Hess , Gullackson
and Mearns ., Gullackson is the predecessor in title to Truckenbrodt.
Mr. Truckenbrod_t is the recent purchaser of that property . On the
easterly side , or northerly side really , is Dr . Pung ,. Bayles ,. Bayles ,
Kulpa ,,._ Gold. (Mr. Pachman. referred to map on easel whic.h__was placed
in .the _front portion of the audience . )
The peo.ple. w.ho are concerned and who are .objecting are Mr . Lyons ,
who is at_ the foot of .the right-of-way -you have Leslie , Singerma,n ,
Hess ,. Truckenbrodt , .Mearns , Pung , Bayles , Bayles ,_ Kulpa . Now you have
Southold Town Board of Appeals -46 June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABB'OTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN (continued) :
some statements from some of these owners indicating during the years
that they have been in ownership of this property during the time that
Damianos--we ' ll use that name for sake of ease rather than repeating
both names--were in possession_ of that property which 'I _thin_k._w"as , .
1.976 . �;.Dur.ing that .time the cottages were used as .indicated by the
Lighting Company for some . period of time in 1.975 and 1976 , and then
was abandoned and the service was cut off in :' 78. Your letters , which.
you already have in the file wh:i.ch . I will not, repeat , indicating the
.people who testified or sent statements .as to the use of the. property
would be redundant to restate them at this time.
I have witnesses present--some people who have testified as to
the actual use of the property duri.n.g this period of time But as a
predicate.., before I introduce said testimony , I think it behooves me
not to remind you but to once again draw your, attention to your
ordinance , which, obviously sets forth the. purposes of the health ,
welfare and safety , and also requires that the residences be pre-
served .
One of the the 'most important statements in your ordinance ,
100-10 , which sets forth purposes says that it should be , ,.-.under "F, "
the .gradual elimination of .nonconforming uses . And this a stated_
purpose inyou_ur ordinance .
It is clearlywithout a doubt that today the use of cottages ,
motels , tourist _camps , are not proper uses i_rn the zoning as it
presently exists on that particular property .- And if that
property is to be used in the fashion that _Swanson a_nd Abbott
intend ,to use , Jt would have to be based upon` the fact that they ' ve
had a continuing nonconforming use .
We next look to the statement as to definition of cottages
and motels-- I won ' t. repeat ,them to you at thi-s time , but if you ' re
going to- operate today a tourist camp or a tourist cottage under
Article- X , you must make application to get permits to do that.
I ' ve .checked with the Building Department , and the Clerk ' s Office ,
and there is.-no record , to the best of my ability to find any
application on file or any applications be filed to operate under
Article X as a tourist colony ,or a camp .
Now we get to the issue of what is a • non�conforming use . A
nonconforming use is defined specifically in the ordinance as
what .it is . , And it says that a nonconforming, use is any use
whether of .a building .or a tract of land, or 'both , existing on
the effective date of this chapter which does; not conform to the
use ; regulations of the district for which it, is located . That
clearly is the case now. The district does not permit that kind
Of use .
The ordinance under Section 100-.1.18 talks about nonconforming
^ _ I
a
Southold Town Board ofi Appeals -47- June 21 , ivo4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued :)
MR. PACHMAN (continued) :
uses and makes a statement. The statement is ; "Unless authorized as
a Special Exception by the. Board of .Appeals , `;which is not the case
here , "as hereinafter provided , 'the following provisions shall apply
to nonconforming uses . " Obviously "A" says , and I ' ll just summarize
that , if the building continues to be used for that purpose , it can
remain .as a nonconforming use .
":' . .A nonconforming use of .a building or premises may be changed
to a use or higher classification according to . . . thi s chapter'. . . ,,,
provided you go for the necessary variances .
"Whenever , " and this is "D."--;this is what we ' re talking about
for the interpretation why we believe the building inspector erred
in not , although based on- the affidavit which. he did issue the
Certificate , when he was put on__ notice--put on notice that the
information contained in that affidavit which supported that Certi-
ficate was inaccurate or in doubt , he should have put a Stop Order
or revoke that Certificate and directed the applicant , or the then
owner , because the applicants were Damianos at the time and then
Swanson and Abbott took title; to Section D, which says:,'
" . . .Whenever a nonconforming use of a building or premises has
been discontinued for. a period of more than two years or has
been changed to a higher classi'fi,cation . . . ° ,-::which is not
applicable here , . . the nonconforming use-of such building or
premises shall no- longer be permitted unless a variance
therefor shall have been granted by the. Board of Appeals as_;
hereinafter provided . . . . ".
And there ' s. no record in your office where anyone moved.
(At this point in time ,. Bernice . Gerardi , Stenographer for Mr . Pachman ,
interrupted to._:stop.,the: heari,ng��.so ,that the s-teho machine could be
unjammed ,,.etc . )
MS. GERARDI : . . . Unless a variance shall' thereafter be granted
by the Bo.ard of .Appeals as hereinafter--.
MR. PACHMA( ::. . .As hereinafter provided. And Section E, which is
also somewhat - interesting . A_ nonconforming building may not be
reconstructed or structurally altered duri.ng ,its life to an extent
exceeding in aggregate Cost. 50% of the fair v,al ue_ of the building
unless the use of .such building i... changed to .a conforming use . . . , "
and I think the building' inspe_ctor' s re.cords �will reveal that there
is work being done in and about the premises ,, and I would believe
that after you hear the testimony as to the condition of the build-
ings , the cabins . :.,that more than 50% of the value has been con-
structed , it would be installed in and about the premises . I find
it somewhat also , startling ,,. and I ' m somewhat concerned about the
Southold Town Board of Appeals -48 June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. 'TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN (continued ) :
fact that the ordinance also calls for , that any reconstruction , .
restoration , alteration , or structurally altered building , requires
that a permit be obtained from the Bui.l..ding Inspector; and although
roof work :, and:'.inter16r. . room work was done , and siding work was per-
formed , and exterior structure landing , and various other things
and plumbing , and new sewer..-work was being performed , or cesspool
work was being performed , there has been no permit issued by the
building department. When I asked the building inspector as to
why no permits were issued , he says , that ' s the way we did it when
I came , and I 'm just doing it the same way. I trust that was the
proper.:quote .
So we have work that ' s. bei`ng performed. In violations of
building permits , Section under 10.0-.1_41 , which presumably would not
then be the basis for someone getting a Certificate of Occupancy
which is a prerequisite for occupying a dwelling , whether it be
a nonconforming use or a conform_i.ng use , and we don ' t have that.
And one of. the reasons I do also believe that one is required
to have a building permit because ._that gives the Assessors Office
the key to know that some construction is going on , that some
buildings are being improved , and presumably the assessed value
which is coupled with the improvement of those buildings would be
shown on'.:the :assessment role_, therefore, the Assessments.: would;.
change , and presumably the_ tax computed based , upon that piece of
property would :also .be the case.
So I ' m asking for an interpretation as to why or if the
building inspector does not feel that the erection , reconstruction
and. restoration for structura,ll_y altered buildings required build-
ing permits . A simple lookin_g ,at any dictionary--
(At this .point in time , Mr. Pachman ' s. stenographer interrupted to..
stop'. the hearing due to problems with the steno. machine . There was
another brief pause . )
MR. PACHMAN continued : If we .look in the regular paperback dictionary
r.•ather, than the Funk and Wagnalls , we find that the word "alter" is
to make or become different or change in character , so the mere
applying of anything different is an alteration that would require the
issuance of a permit under your ordinance . If you look at the word
"reconstruct , " to build against , create , ':to..epatt , to renew; and we
can go through each one of those words and those words are clearly
defined and clearly set forth that under the very ordinance , a per-
mit was required and hasn ' t been done . So we need an interpretation
from this board as to why there has been no permit granted.
But let' s get to the issue of nonconforming use and why there
hasn ' t been a stop order or some kind of action taken to abrogate
--the permit which was given in June of 1983 to Mr. Damianos and his
co-owner. .And understandably and I ' m not saying that Abbott and
Swanson didn ' t rely on it-- I ' m not blaming them. They bought the
premises I assume with the understanding that: they had a valid permit.
I ' m not suggesting that they did anything other than rely on the
Southold Town Board of Appeals . -49 June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal .No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN continued :
person they bought the property from.
I have a statement here--he couldn ' t be present--from- Dr. Pung ,
who ' s the adjacent owner right there.. and it ' s' in the affidavit form
and says :
" . . . To Whom It May Concern : June 7 , 1984.
I have owned a summer home and waterfront lot -by' Edwards Lane
in Orient since 1980 . I have had in the past negotiated to
purchase the adjoining property west of us belonging to Dr .
Damianos . I have inspected 3 _cottages.. and 1 house in that
property and came with a' builder who advised me that those
structures were beyond repair and should' be ' torn down com'-
pletely . It was on account of the conditions of .those _.
buildings that I decided not to go ahead with the purchase .
I also know positively that those buildings have been
abandoned at.-.least since 1980 until re.cently.
I have been involved in several building constructions and
I know those cottages and the house were, total wrecks .
Thank;-you .
Sworn to . Signed Dr. Pung .
MR. PACHMAN : I would like to submit that for the board . (The
document - read above was submitted for the record and marked such . )
MR. PACHMAN : How we doing?
MS:.: GERARD.I : Good.
MR. PACHMAN : I have another statement from Mrs . Mearns . Mrs . Mearns
is a homeowner right on the Long Island Sound . adjacent .to the
property . As a resident immedi.atel.y adjacent' to the newly acquired
.property owned by Ms . Abbott and Ms . Swanson , I have been. advised to
b'e in touch with you , as our attorney , to give you some details as
to the deplorable condition of the cottages on -said property;.-_
Several years ago , these cottages were .o,ffered to the employees
of Mr . Damianos and their families .for vacation at the rate of-..,$50
p _
er -week . ALthough we were not given the la'd'y' s. name , one mother
told my husband that with God ' s. .help , I will :never come back to this
place again . " She explained she . h-a.d to spend the entire week doing
nothing but scrub and clean in an effort to make the place even
slightly livable . There was no place allocated for the disposal of
rubbish or.;:'garbage . The peopleA ust pil.ed it' behind one of the
bungalows that were unoccupied , (pause :.for;:.other stenographer) .
. . thus inviting rats to feed on the above . ,This was reported to the
former owner and it was corrected.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -50- June zi , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued: )
MR . PACHMAN continued:
" . . . Occasionally we would look around the cottage as we were aware
of young people- hanging-. out in them. They surely made a shambles
of the place . . The roof of one of the buildings_ had a leak and
the rain gaining entrance , thus causing mildew actually climbing
the wall i.n the bathroom. We know the. ladies are in _p.oss_ession of
an affidavit issued by Damianos , stating that these buildings have
been . in continuous occupancy . The families of Hess--Gullackson
(former owners of the Truckenbrodt residence )., and we , the Mearnses
are related and at no time were all thr.ee homes left unattended
even over one might . I add this to say , people could not be
occupying the cottages at any time without someone of us observing
thei_r_ presence . It._ is quite obvious that these ladies have pur-
chased
_ the property under fraudulent circumstances . Submitted ,_
. . . Mrs. Harry Mearns . . . . "
And I think it ' s in affidavit form also . (Mr. Pachman submitted.
the document of .Mrs . _Harry Mearns which_ was , marke.d received today ' s,
date by' the Chairman , for the record. )
As I indicated to you the. Truckenbrodt ' s. predecessor in title is
Gul l a.ckson .
" . . . May 21 ,, 1984, To Whom It May Concern :
This is to advise you that I resided in Orient from June, 1971
Until June. 1983 : .My' house was, located on a private road on '
the north side of Route 25 and -bordered on the north 'by
property owned 'by Mearns , on the south by property owned
by _Hess , and on _the east by property o.wn_ed by Da.mianos .
The cabins on the Damianos ' _property were visible from
my property. These cabins were vacant , open 'and in total
disrepair ._.'. The grounds surrounding the cabins were all ___
Unkempt. _ For many years these cabins were unoccupied_.. . . . "
. Signed. . . Donald L . Gullackson and it ' s. witnesses by two.
si.9natures . _. _.
(Mr.' Pachman submitted the May 21 , 1984 one=page . letter for the
record , which the Chairman marked "_6/21 /84 received , H . P . )
On February 28 , Mr . Lessard received a letter from Irene Singerman ,
I think that shows in' your f,i.le O who is the other owner
adjacent to this property . .
" . . . Dear Mr. Lessard. . . I am writing you about a situation
that ' s. just recently come to my attention . My husband and
I have been property owners in Orient on a private road
known, 1 oc,a.l'l_y a_s .Ki erdri cks Road, and have resided here
since June 1. 979. A parcel of. ,land on the Sound was recently
purchased from a party name .Damianos , containing several
abaridoried cabins which formerly enjoyed protected status ,
N 1
Southold Town . Board of Appeals -51 - June 21 , 1984 Regular . Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN (continued ) :
. . . even-though they did not conform to the local zoning laws .
Over the years , and certainly since we have lived there , the
cabins , to my knowledge , have never been inhabited , although
they have been vandal .i.zed repeatedly , and have been the
habitat of many animals . Their deterioration has certainly
made them a hazard to all .
I understand that the present owners ,intend to ..and are
restoring them for rental use . Since these structures have
been abandoned for so many years , it seems to me that this
would be contrary to the zoning laws established by the Town
of Southold. . . . . Sincerely Irene Singerman .
The original letter has been handed to me -by the Building Inspector ,
and I will _hand that to this board for their information . (Letter
dated February 28 , 1984 addressed to Victo-r Lessard , signed by
Mrs . S.ingerman was _submitted for the record and marked received
today ' s date H . P . )
Thank you., Sir. At this time I would like to ask Mr . Hale to
please stand . One of the affidavits at to the application
is from Mr. Hale , who is present here . Mr. Hale , would. you tell
me where you own property with relation to the Da.mianos .property?
MR . HALE : ` My property is 300 feet east of the Damianos property.
Those , 300 intervening feet being owned by -Dr. Pung .
MR. PACHMAN : And have you had occasion--how long have you
been living at that location?
MR. HALE: We ' ve been living at that -location yearround since
August of 1980 .. The building was started ..under construction in
January of_ 1980 , and we .had :a cottage which was made a part of
the permanent building whi.ch has been in 'my wife ' s family since-
MR. PACHMAN : Approximately .
MR. HALE: Well , let' s. see". I ' ve gone with my wife for 50
years - and it was before that. So I can ' t. ,tell you what date .
MR. PACHMAN : Mr. Hale , I ' m. going to ,have . to interrupt you ,
sir. ' I think - I usurped the Chairman ' s charge of having you sworn in .
MR. CHAIRMAN :. Would you raise your right hand .please.
MR . HALE raised his right hand .
.MR . CHAIRMAN : Do you solemhly swear 'that the testimony that
you are about' to give i..s the truth_, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -52- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTH.UR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , conti.nued : )
MR. HALE : I do .
MR. PACHMAN : What you said before wa;s . under oath also?
MR. HALE : Yes , it was .
MR. PACHMAN : In about 1918 you retired , Sir?
MR. HALE : Yes , Sir .
MR. PACHMAN : All right. And could you tell this board since
1978 what you observed in and about these premises known as the
Dami.anos ' property .and the cottages and the cabins and the house?
MR. HALE : Well in th.e Summer of 1979, my wife and I spent
the entire summer i_n our cottage although we had a yearroun.d resi -
dence on Village Lane . We did this in order to really determine .
whether or not we_ wanted to build a permanent residence there . So
we were there from May to October. And we- have always had animals ;
we would walk on the beach ; we walked .on the beach ourselves ; our
children and our grandchildren used the beach and go up and down
the,. beach , and we have never seen those cottages occupied . We
moved into our houses that I said in August of .1980 , and until
construction was started , we saw nobody in' th.ose , in or around
those cottages other than once in awhile we would hear the::dog.-.bark .
We have a very. 1 arge dog whose mission_ in Ti fe _i s to guard. _ and we
have a saying i.n our house , "When the dog _barks , look . " So we
looked , and once in awhile we would see somebody ,down on the beach .
_It co.u.l d. be .El-l.i a and Dick Leslie_ taking a swim. But still we were
alerted to the . fact that they were there . And those cottages were
unoccupied at that time and _to the best of my knowledge ha_ye not
been occupied since we ' ve been permanent yearroundresidents at
that l oca.00h .
MR . P•ACH.MAN : And that would be, 1978 ,. S.ir?
MR .HALE : We moved in in 1980 ..
.MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Between. 1980 .and today--.
MR. -HALE : Yes . And the Summer of„1979 before. we started to
build :
MR.' PACH.MAN : C.an you give me some idea or can you tell this
board some ' idea of ,the _cond_i.tion of ,those cottages . __..,Let the board
understand ,.one thing , we are not .making any objection.- to the house .
being reconstructed__ or any work. that' s,_ beiIng done on the house .
Our ,own focus and direction is upon the cabins and cottages. _The
house has got a bu.ildi'ng permit'_for the work that' s. bein_g done- there .
My clients_ are not .objecting to _.the work t�hat ' s. being performed on
the house ; and a'nythi.ng that we ' re t.a.lking .about now is not talking
F' •l
Southold Town Board of Appeals -53- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN (continued) :
about the house . The house has a building permit and work is being
performed under that building permit , I presume , conforming to
the building code . And when this is completed , I assume that a
Certificate of Occupancy will be granted. Our focus , our attention ,
and our own direction is to the cottages . Now, get: back to those
cottages , Mr. Hale . Can you give me some idea as to the--did you--
what did you see in ands;about the windows?
MR. HALE: Well , in my letter to you I stated that they were
. at various .times , they were , windows were boarded up ; the windows
seemed;.' to be broken out. Only the frames being there ; and they
were in an abandoned state .
MR. PACHMAN : Did you notice whether the doors were operating
or whether- the landings were usab.l.e or anything like that?
MR. HALE: I can ' t testify to that .
MR. PACHMAN : You don ' t recollect that. Do you have any
recollection of walking your dog _across that property at any time .
.MR._ HALE_: Well all the old Orienters will vouch for the fact that
in the , I '_ll call if off season , we take strolls and .so forth and
it was our ha.bit_,_ for along period of time to walk our dogs and
one of the places. that we would go would be to go from our
property down to what we::call_ . the farmland and across and:°ouer:
there--.,.Ellie and Dick Leslie_' s., and cut through Damianos ' property
and go down to the beach and go back to our cottage that w-ay... And
over time it got to the point that we each could no longer do that
because the roadway was completely overgrown . The tree . limbs had
fallen off and there was just so-, point in working your way through
So 'my observati on from that. time were ofi-Ty,-from the._ beach ...
MR. PACHMAN : But you could see that the area was basically
abandoned and not being used?
MR. HALE: Yes , Sir .
MR. PACHMAN : I ' ll show you these pictures .whi;ch::show the four
houses from the beach, area and ask you -s �that a reasonable re,pre-
sentation of the condition of the houses that you recollect.
MR. HALE: Yes , it is .
MR. PACHMAN : During the time that they were abandoned and not
used.
MR . HALE : Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : And those , the . ones with the boards on the windows
and thi,ng_s, like 'that. (Mr. Hale nodded yes.. ) Thank you .
Southold Town .Board of Appeals -54- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : Ok , Mr. Hale , the other statements 'are : basically
in your letter which is part of the record , and I will thank you
very much for testifying . . I know your wife is .here--
MR. HALE: No , she ' s not.
MR. PACHMAN : Oh , she didn ' t show up , Ok. All right. Mrs .
Mearns? Mr . Mearns . Can you hear me?
MR. MEARNS: Sure .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Do you want to use. . that microphone please .
Mr. Mearns , you "re the house rig.ht on the sound right next .to those
cabins , correct Sir?
MR. MEARNS: That ' s right.
MR. PACHMAN : How long have you lived there?
MR. MEARNS: Pretty close to .11 years . Ten and some odd months .
MR. PACHMAN : Can' you see the cottages from your house , Sir?
MR. MEARNS: Yes . The closest one , it ' s. right near the property
line , ' is about.. 100. feet from _our house . It ' s. about a 100 .
The stenographer asked Mr. Mearns his full name and its spelling .
MR. PACHMAN : Harr Mearns . M-e-a-r-'n-s .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Could you raise your 'night hand please?
Mr. Mearns raised his right hand.
MR. C.HA.IRM.AN : Do you solemnly swear that everything you are
about " to say is the truth, the. wh.ole truth and nothing but. the
truth?
MR. MEARNS : Outstandin.g'ly.
MR.- CHAIRMAN : Thank you , Sir.
(Mr. Mearns gave. a statement that was, not audible.. )
MR . PACHMAN : Would you repeat that f'or ' the record please?
MR . MEARNS : I said that the distance from my house to the
nearest cottage is just .about, .110 feet .
MR . PACHMAN : .Then he didn 't; lose his, stroke , ok . (jokingly) .
A.1.1 right. In your seeing those houses during that time ,, lW s.
bring . i t ba.ck to the. 1 a s t three or four years e Can' you g.i,v_e me
some descri.p.tion as to the condition of those„ houses?
I
Southold Town Board of Appeals -55- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKEN.BRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. MEARNS : Well , the condition was .in a state flux ,,/on account
of the weather , a lot of wind , a certain amount of vandalism, and
very poor effort made to try to board it up . Some of the boarding
that;,,wasuput up was ripped down . There were young kids around , that
didn ' t have anything to_ do so the cottages were very accessible .
Nobody to take. care of them. So they d.ete'ri orated ,. I would s,ay
starting in the Year 1978 regularly all different things in the
hosues , things were destroyed , and ,damaged,' thrown out , and the
windows broken , 'and there were some efforts made to sort of close
it up ; but they weren ' t very good . So.. by 'the time it got to ._' 83
I wouldn ' t have thought that .you could fix' them. You know , I said
somebody would take a. lot of .money to stral.ghten these things out.
. But that ' s. the way it -was . I know I wouldn ' t have tried it , and I
agree with Dr."Pung. I felt- the same way -that he feels on what to
do wli-th them. Either for ;fi.re wood or take them a_Way.. But evidently
they ' re going to fix them up now. That' s about it .
MR. PACHMAN : During that time of disrepair , did you see anyone
l i vi ng i n__.those houses? _
MR. MEARNS: . No . Another thing about seeing anybody living--
ei then I woul d say a., very dim, .1 i ght_ i n any, one of the dottages I
could see. I could spot-.. even with trees , you know , with the foliage ,
you can spot a l i..ght ..very eas,i'ly at :night. So if anybody was there ,
,they never had any, lights on . _But I d.on ' t, know how they- could have
them on with the_ _el,ectric to„rued- off.. They must have bought. a
generator. So they--if .th'ey came there ; they had candlelight with
a shade over it and, I don ' t. know what else . _
MR. PACHMAN :, Mr. Mearns , I.'.11 show you this p.ic.ture . . _Do you.
recognize__which cabin that is?
MR. MEARNS viewed the picture.: . Isn ' t that the second one . It
lo.oks " like- the second one from mine .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok. And is that a fair, and accurate representa-
tion of .the condition of those cabins during the time they were
abandoned and in disrepair? .
MR. MEARNS : That ' s. pretty accurate .
MR. PACHMAN : And what does that show, Sir?
MR . M.EA.RNS : Nobody paid any attention to them.
MR. PACHMAN : Well , 'I mean--
MR. MEARNS : Well there was no one living there . They weren ' t
being used,
MR. PACHMAN : Does it show the door hanging off?.
N •
Southold Town Board of Appeals -55- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. MEARNS : Oh , yeah . (Mr. Esseks viewed pictures . )
MR. PACHMAN : Thank you . Yes , you ' re right , Mr. Esseks , it
shows a screen door hanging off and it shows no door . Thank you
for drawing that to my, attention . Mrs . Mearns? Do you have
anything to add or to say. I don ' t want to say anything unless
you have something to say.
MRS . MEARNS: I don ' t think so . I think that covers it all .
MR. PACHMAN : All right , you heard your husband . If you
testified, , would your testimony be substantially similar to his
testimony? Even , jf ,you were sworn?
MRS. MEARNS: Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Reverend Hess?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you solemn:l-y- swear that everything that you
are about to say at this hearing i.n the truth , the whole truth ,
and nothing but.._.the truth?
REVEREND HESS : Yes , so help me God .: (after raising his right hand ) .
MS. GERARDI (stenographer ) : May I have your full name?
REVEREND HESS : Bradford N . Hess . H-a-s-s- .
MR. PACHMAN : Reverend Hess lives right there .
MR. -PACHMAN : Reverend Hess , how long have you been living at
that location?
REV . HESS : We ' ve been living there since I retired three years
ago . Before that we were there every weekend for about nine years .
Because my work took me out here weekends .
MR. PACHMAN : Can you describe to this board and tell this board
i.f- dur.i.ng ,.the time you .were there on weekends , and during the time
you were there full, time for the last three years , do you know or
.had you seen anyone residing or using those cabins or cottages in
any fashion?
REV . HESS : No , not at all .
MR. PACHMAN : During that time , did you see the condition of
those cottages , Sir?
REV . HESS:, Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Can you describe to this board the condition of
those - cottages?
'r r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -56- June zi , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
REV. HESS: They were deteriorating reg.ularly . I remember when
Doctor Damianos first had the property and he rented the cottages , he
was very meticulous during the wintertime to make sure that they were
boarded up , and he hired .somebody to come in and put , I guess you
call them shutters or something , plywood over the doors .and windows
to .protect them. And the same fe.11;.ow would come back in the Spring
and take it off because he was .goi.,ng to rent them again . This.
happened for about two or m�ybe:ithree years , back i.n the late ' 70s ,
and but then since that time- , 'one of those'.years through .there , he
must have discontinued that practice so I didn ' t see anybody around
putting boards up or protecting the place .
MR . PACHMAN : Did you see any broken windows?
REV . HESS: ' Yes , I saw some broken windows .
MR . PACHMAN : Did' you see any holes in the roof?
REV . HESS : I didn ' t see any holes in the roof,. but I was sure
that the roofs must leak because- the walls inside the cottages were
mildew and the mattresses that were there were badly stained from
mildew and rain .
MR . PACHMAN : In your opinion were those houses occupied for the
last three years during the time--
REV . HESS: No , no way . No way , not possible .
MR . PACHMAN : I ' ll show y.ou this picture of .another one of the
buj 1 di ngs , and this o_n_e is wi,_th the screen' door._ open but the door
off, and ask you if ,that is a reasonable depicting of the way the
condition of ,one of .those houses are .
REV . HESS,:. : Yes . I would say so . Tu... ;..._. .
MR. PACHMAN : I have no further questions .
.(The picture was given to Mr. Esseks for viewing . :):. :
MR. CHAIRMAN : Excuse , you must direct the questions this way .
WILLIAM ESSEKS, ESQ. : Can the witness tell us the year this
photograph. was taken?
REV . HESS : I don ' t, know when it was taken .
MR. ESSEKS : Does the witness know which cabin it is? .'
R.EV . HESS : I ' m. not sure seeing just that much of it . I know
which ones-- I know one that it isn' t.. I know it isn ' t. the first
one closest to us ,
Southold Town Board of .Appeals -57- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS : When was the last time before 1984 that the witness
was in any of the cottages?
REV . HESS : Before 1984 . I would think probably ' 83 or ' 82 .
MR. ESSEKS : Which cottage?
REV . HESS:. All of them.
MR. ESSEKS : What time of year?
REV . HESS : That would probably be the summer time .
MR. ESSEKS : Will the witness tell the board whether.,..the. doors
had springs on them? ._ „
REV . HESS : I know there was at least one , because I remember it
was loose from the hinges and it matc-hed the state disrepair of the
rest. of them.
MR. ESSEKS : Will the witness state whether there were screens
on the windows?
REV. HESS : I don ' t remember. I didn ' t notice any . I wasn ' t
looking for them.
MR. ESSEKS : Was the witness in the house and any of the cottages
in 1979?
REV. HESS : I was in two of .them around 19-- it might have been
' 78 or '79 or ' 77.,. but it was when Mr. Damian_os. was renting them.
MR. ESSEKS : When was the last year that the witness recollects
that any of .the cottages were rented?
REV . HESS : Either in 1977 or ' 78 .
MR . ESSEKS: Each cottage or which cottages? .
REV . HESS : I don ' t. know, you know , if ,we start from the. Truck-
enbrodt ' s. house and call the first cottage, Number One ,..the second one
Number- Two , it was Cottages Number One and. Two' were the only ones
that I knew that were rented .
MR. ESSEKS: In those cottages i:n the last year that the wi.tness
recollects they were occupied , were there be.ds i.n the cottages?
REV. HESS: Yes .
MR. ESSEKS: Were there kitchen tables in the cottages?
R.EV . HESS : Yes .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -58- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS : Wer.e:ther.e._ chairs in the cottages?
REV . HESS : Yes .
MR. ESSEKS: Were there crockery and kitchen utensils?
REV . HESS: Yes. Pots and pans .
MR. ESSEKS : Is it the witness ' s testimony that he was only in
two out ' of the four cottages in the last year„ of rental ?
REV . HESS : Yes . And the reason is I , had a little fault to
find with the fellow because he was shouting fireworks off ._at
1 : 30 in the morning , so the following day I_ went in to a.s_k him
If he would refrain from that because this was not a carnival , it
was a residential area .
MR. ESSEKS : Does the witness recollect whether there was
electric power then?
REV . HESS: I don ' t. recolle.ct. that. I ' m sure they must have
had lights on . . But I don ' t. specifi.ca,lly remember seeing electric
Tights.ghts. on . - -
MR. ESSEKS : Does the witness recollect whether, -:the : people:°were
cooking or not?
R.EVe HESS: No . I don ' t. know that.
MR. ESSEKS: Does the witness recollect whether there was pots
and pans of the type that you use for .cooking?
REV . HESS Yes . I 'm. quite sure there was . I don ' t. recall
specifically seeing them.
MR. ESSEKS : Were there toilet facilities in the cottages?
REV . HESS : As far as I know there were , yes . I don ' t remember
seeing any . I know there ,was a shower. in .Cottage Number Two because
we had an altercation over that too.
MR. ESSEKS: Does the witness recolle.c't whether in the last year
of _rental whether the shower was operating?
R.EV . HESS: Yes , 'it was opera,ble_; .
MR . ESSEKS : Operable?
REV. HESS: I Yes:; .:it.�was oper.able .
MR. ESSEKS : One of .the cottages , two cottages?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -59- June 21 , 1yu4 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
REV . HESS: All I know about is Cottage Number Two .
MR. ESSEKS: Did the four cottages in the last year of rental appear
to be approximately in the .same condition?
REV. HESS: I don ' t remember that last year being in Cottages 3
and 4 , but 1 and 2 I would say were about equal .
(Mr. Pachman submitted picture #3 for the record . )
MR. CHAIRMAN to RICHARD 'E. LESLIE: Do you solemnly swear that
the testimony that you are about to' g.ive is t-he whole truth and nothing
but the truth?
RICHARD E . LESLIE: I do .'
MS . GERARDI Can I :Aave your full name?
MR. LESLIE: Richard E. Leslie :
MR. PACHMAN:: Mr. Leslie , do you own. property south and west of
the Damianos' "property? ..
MR . LESLIE: My wife, and I own that property .
MR . PACHMAN : Excuse me , sir. Yes . Ok . How long have you and
your wife owned that property?
MR . LESLIE : For 11 years . We moved there in 1973.
MR. PACHMAN : And during the course of your living there , did
you come a time when you saw .Mr. Damianos and. others using the
property of .the main ...house and the cottages?
MR . LESLIE : Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : And did there also come a time when . there was a
discontinuance ' of .use of ,the main house and the cottages?
MR . LESLIE : Yes , there did.
MR . PACHMAN : And can you tell this board when you-.,recollect
there was ..a discontinuance of .use of .the cottages?
MR. LESLIE : I would, to the best of my recollection , after 1976
the cottages and the house , ' 76 , ' 77 , along in there some time were
no. longer in use .
MR. PACHMAN : And did you have occasion to look at those cabins
during - the years that they were in disuse?
MR . LESLIE: Yes , we did.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -60- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON., continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : Can you tell this board what you observed when you
looked at those cottages?
MR. LESLIE: Well , my wife and I walked that property many , many
times throughout the year . . As a matter of fact , we , in order to get to
the beach , we passed through cabins we ' ve now come to describe as
Cabins 3 and 4 within three or four feet of either cabin , so we did
have occasion to observe them on numerous . times during those years .
MR . PACHMAN : And can you tell this board what you observed at
those occasions?
MR. LESLIE : Well , we observed that the houses obviously were
unoccupied , repeatedly over the years , or gradually over the years ,
they became more and more vandalized by , I_ would_ assume children and
animals . The stairs were falling off _several of them. The windows
what screens there were , there were only remnants left. We observed
snow in the wintertime in these cabins that passed through , and rain
in the other seasons of the year .
MR. PACHMAN : Did you observe some furniture in these houses?
MR. LESLIE : Well , I don ' t know if you would call it furniture .
Over the course of time , I think I recal,l__seeing. .a small kitchen table
in one of them and a couple of iron pots___ and a mattress that was too
far gone to be called a mattress , a stove , refrigerator , but I don ' t
think that--if you call that furniture , then I guess it was furniture .
MR. PACHMAN : And from your viewpoint in the vantage of your
house , did. you see any lights between ' 78 and to date?
MR . LESLIE : Well we cannot observe these cottages from our house .
MR . PACHMAN : So you would not be able to see whether-- did you
ever take walks along the beach. and along .the paths during the night?
MR. LESLIE : -We walked along the beach at night . We didn ' t go
through the path at night .
MR. PACHMAN : And when you walked along the beach during that
time , did you observe any lights in those buildings?
MR. LESLIE: Not in the intervening years , somewhere around ' 76
' 77 : : ; o
MR. PACHMAN : Do people have to pass by your house to get access
through that property? ,.
MR. LESLIE : Yes , they do .
MR . PACHMAN : Does that right-of-way go right across a good portion
of your property? .
r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -61 - June 21 , 198-1 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. LESLIE : It goes within--yes , a good portion of my property .
MR. PACHMAN : And from your house , can you hear and can you see
if cars are going up and down that road?
MR. LESLIE : Yes , we can .
MR. PACHMAN : And during that time when the houses were abandoned
and disused , did you see many cars going up there?
MR. LESLIE : To use that--that specific property? Well , as a
matter of fact , when we would see a car, when I observed a car coming
up the drive , it was not the car that I. knew to be either the Singer-
mans , the Mearns , Hess , Gullackson , I would go out and see who they
were and where they were--go-ing because we__. were always concerned about
vandals in the area . So any cars that I saw going to that area immedi -
ately turned around and left .
MR. PACHMAN : And' you saw no one who was using your--the area in
front of you , or the right-of-,way , to get access to those cabins?
MR. LESLIE: I saw no one.
MR . PACHMAN : And that was during the last three years at least
and possibly- longer since those cabins_ have .been abandoned and in disuse?
MR. LESLIE : That is correct .
MR . PACHMAN : All right. I have no further questions .
MR. LESLIE : Thank you .
(Mr. Pachman asked Mrs . Leslie a question ..that was inaudible . )
MRS . LESLIE: We have had occasion to go in--
MR. CHAIRMAN : Use the mike , if you would please .
MR. PACHMAN : And get sworn in please . (Mrs. Leslie raised her right hand. )
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you solemnly swear that everything that you
are about to tell us is the truth ,--the whole truth , and nothing .but
the truth?
MRS . LESLIE: I do .
MS . GERARDI : Can I have your name?
MRS. LESLIE : Eleanor Leslie . And I would like to say , that we
had in ' the last three years , particularly occasion to go inside the
cabins quite often . I. recall„ that my husband often said , "And don ' t
go ins%de the cabin because.... the stairs have fallen down so badly they
Southold Town Board of Appeals -62- June 21 , 1964 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MRS . LESLIE (continued ) :
may break and you ' ll hurt yourself. " But the reason we had occasions
to go inside is that we have had several robberies , I wouldn ' t call
them robberies--but what seemed to be teenagers breaking into our
house to :takean odd bottle of wine , scotch., or whatever , glassware ,
and we knew because we had to. get inside the garage on the property
to the main house that there were kids using that garage as a
camping out spot , if you will . They have written .on walls and all
of the furniture was broken up in that garage , so when we were missing
a substantial amount of liquor and then later it was a television set
and a bicycle and so forth , .we ' d;:check out all of the buildings on
the property to see if _perhaps those kids had. left them there and were
then using that as the camping o.ut .place , and to see if we could catch
them.
MR . PACHMAN: And now that you went into those buildings and had
close observation of ,those buildings within the last years or more ,
can you tell this board what you .observed in those buildings? Were
they occupied?
MRS. LESLIE : Obviously not.
MR . PACHMAN : Were they in a state of disrepair?
MRS . LESLIE : State of total disrepair . Mildew..-as everyone has
mentioned plus the inside of .the showers were so _rusty that you would
never have gotten into one ;_. and while there was crockery and pots and
pans , I mean if you call two dishes., some broken , one odd glass , you
know--it ' s the-. sort of.. crockery that you ' d find in any abandoned place .
MR. PACHMAN : I have no further questions . Mr . Lyons .
PATRICK E . LYONS raised his right hand .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Would you raise your right hand , Mr . Lyons . Do
you solemnly swear that the testimony_. that you are about to._ give is
the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth?
MR . LYONS : I do .
MS . GERARDI : Your full name?
. P:ATRICK E . LYONS: Patrick E. Lyons .
MS . GERARDI : U-1y.?
MR . LYONS : L-y-o-n-s .
MR. PACHMAN : Mr . Lyons , you "::are at the front of the entrance
of that right-of-way where. all these other neighbors live . That ' s on
Main Road and the .right-of-,w.Ay commences at that location., east of
your house?
. y
Southold Town Board of Appeals -63- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. LYONS : Yes , it ' s a. 1.6-_foot wide easement over our property,
which is the sole ingress and egress of all those lots including the
former Damianos ' property .
MR . PACHMAN : How long have you owned that property?
.MR. LYONS: Since ' 77 .
MR. PACHMAN : And since the time you ' ve owned the property , have
you had occasion to use that right-of-way and go down to the Damianos '
property , the Leslie. property , the Singerman. property , the Hess , Gullack-
son , and Mearns ' property? .
MR . LYONS: Yes . My wife and I are residents mainly on the
weekends , yearround , and very_ much fulltime in the summer. We used
to go to the beach because it-was more, closer to the house and 'a
very attractive beach down there , and there was a little worn path
that Dick Leslie had eluded to between Cabin 3 and 4 . ., And we have to ,
we know that area on the way to the beach .
MR . PACHMAN : And in the course of your traversing and traveling
over the property and observing those cabins , can you tell this board
what you 've seen . and heard?
MR. LYONS : When we had first walked down there was to some
timidity s.e_eing cottages . I ' l.1 back u,p a bit. When we bought our
house on Main Road , i.t had been abandoned for about 20 years and it
was,in .a severe state of delapidation . The cabins when we first
looked at them , I guess. in .' 78 we were fairly busy in the first couple
of years when . we bought the house and didn ' t have much time to go to_
the beach . It seemed to be in a state of disuse , and over the years
it continued to get worse . Vines would crawl up through the windows ,
higher every year . There was no evidence that the lawns were ever
mowed. Windows were broken out of. Doors torn off.., Part of ,the
cottages had been boarded up it seemed , but then,_ some._. of those have
been torn off, and we did upon occasion go into one cottage . This
would probably be around ' 81 , ' 82 I .guess . We saw bits and pieces
of cro.ckery .and mildew and it' s something that brought back horrible
memories of our house before the renovations , so I _got out of .there .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . Did other than the normal neighbors and the
normal property owners that had access and right .to use that right-of-way
durin_g _the time that you were there , during the intervening years where
we , testimony has indicated. there ' s been an abandonment of. the property ,
did you see cars go in there other than the normal homeowners that would
be .u.sing that road?
MR. LYONS : Yes . Occasionally I would get very brave and stop
somebody that would use it , and in_ ,fa,ct one time I think Rev'. Hess had
a Sunday School p__icnic and it was q.uite embarrassing to stop several
people . We di.d _get to note fairly much who owns the property back ..
there and what the cars were .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -64- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : And you saw no cars going to the Damianos ' property?
MR . LYONS : As far as I know. I said the road that went to the
main house by this time , by ' 82 , was totally unpassable , in fact I
didn ' t even realize there _was a house up ..t.here until someone. pointed
it out about ' 8.2 . The weight of .the cottages , too ,_. the one road
curved around and the washout had been so tremendous that there ' s no
way that short of a four-wheel heavy-duty vehicle could even have
gotten down to that road 7mth_e parking area . I_ think there was a
gas truck that got ( .) down there trying to move the gas tanks
was something someone did recently .
MR. PACHMAN : All right. I have no further questions .
MR. PACHMAN : If the board pleases , I `su,bpoenaed the Conservative
Gas Company who serviced the bungalows and received in lieu of their
appearance. a letter from them, two letters--one says , "Annexed to
your subpoenae dated June 4th , 1984 , Mr . Steven A._ King is District
Manager of .our Riverhead Office . After making diligent search of our
records , .we have the dates and amounts on our computer listed below.
Damianos Account , 9/7/75 8 . 2 gallons , $7 . 37 . May 5 , 1975 , 23 . 5.
gallons , $20 . 32 . June 8 , 1975, service work order 9%2-30 , $40 . 13. A
.copy of the computer run-off of Mr . Damianos ' account is enclosed
showing the two deliveries of ,service and the work order . " Signed
by Conservative Gas . I ' ve then received another letter dated the
same date , "'Dear Mr. Pachman : Enclosed please find copy of work
order 40144-for the pick-up of all .equipment at the Damianos '
residence , Orient Point. We failed to include this with our other
information . We are sorry for any inconveniences this might have
caused you . " And apparently that. indicates that the equipment was
taken out in February 29 , 1984 . So tf there has been no use of gas
on that premises from ' 75 through ' 84--
MR. ESSEKS: Mr. Chairman , I object to the counsel testifying .
He hasn ' t shown that he had personal knowledge of what happened on
that property. Unless he ' s. willing- to show that.
MR. PACHMAN : I was sworn .
MR. ESSEKS : You ' ve shown no background by your visit to the
property-- _
MR. PACHMAN : A11:.. .I ` said i §`.what that report says .
MR. ESSEKS : That isn '.t. what it says at all . It says gas was
delivered in ' 75 and the equipment was taken out in February of 1984 .
MR. PACHMAN : The board will make whatever conclusions they can .
from that.
MR . ESSEKS: It should , but not from your testimony.
.r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -65- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
.(Appeal ..No . ' 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN : I also subpoenaed the Department of Health records
and asked them if they had any_ ev :dence of any work be.ing done in and
about the premises . for the installation of septic systems , et cetera .
I have a certification from Robert A.. Villa ; Chief _Engineer , 'Divisio_n
of Environmental Health , County of .Departmen.t�'of _Health Services . I
think it indicates the ap.p.lication for this was_ sub m_itted some time'
in -- it doesn ' t. seem to_ be dated,. .but I.'.1 1 give i t to the board--
the whole sheet of .papers and they can read it as they will . I .-think
it ' s somewhat significant to note... that on the applicant wh__ich is
signed by Janet Swanson , the ut.i.lity type code _circled "cabin and
bungalow .colo'ny . " I have a paper clip .attached to it. --I won ' t
comment on it . I ' ll let it speak for_ itself.. I also subpoenaed
the Wetmore Realty _Company. ,I don ' t know _i._f .they ' re here . Did you
bring some records?
BONNIE ROSE: I have no record . this date . The only thing I
have on my record and I am Bonnie Rose , l icensed .Jn: real. ..estate , is
what Lew Edson had sent to us . He concluded the deal . We were the
co-broker in that deal .
MR. PACHMAN : Is that the listing?
MS. ROSE: ( ) of sale . Memorandum of sale . (The brief
statement of Ms . Rose was not... audible . ) R-O-S-E .
MR . PACHMAN : All right. Will you swear this witness please?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Surely . (Mrs . Rose raised her right hand. ) Do
you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are abo.ut to give is
.the truth , ' the:.whole truth , and nothing but the truth?
MS . ROSE: Yes . I do . And legally I am Lillian not Bonnie ,
if you * have to have it legal .
MR. PACHMAN : I ' d like you to look at the last page of ,that
memorandum of ,sale , and j f you.' l l pl.ease read to._. the board __the last
sentence on that memorandum of sale .
MS . ROSE: Seller shall give purchasers an affidavit that the
house and cottages .have been used within the last three years , closing
as soon as possible . That ' s. Lew Edson ' s. signature . _
MR. PACHMAN : Thank you . I have no further questions .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you .
MR.. PACHMAN : I also subpoenaed the Department of Environmental
Conservation of .the State of ,New York to see,,.- if any permits were
obtained to putt in a septic system and to reuse the property with
reference to it ' s. being_ adjacent to tidal wetlands . Ap.pare.ntly they
have not responded to _the _subpoena:_ and __I have no .know.l_edge of whether
any application was f.i.led or. :.what their records reveal. other than the
fact that I did serve them with a subpoena . I have here a memorandum
_of law which I have for each member of the board which I think will
explain 'my arguments with reference to the use of .nonconforming uses
and the strict compliance , how they are to be interpreted under the
' r
Southold Town..Board of Appeals -66- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN (continued) :
code . I also have one for my adversary , Mr. Esseks . I also have one
for your Town Attorney, Mr . Task'er , so that he can have one also . I
think in essence what. that says , and I " ll summarize it and then sit
down and rest and to give* you_ a rest , t_he , where an ordinance calls
for a set elimination of .a_. nonconforming use for a period of two .years ,
the testimony that 'my clients gave showing vacancy and abandonment
is of . no great. c.onse.quence. That is some- evidence of an abandonment
of a nonconfor.mi'ng use . But where the ordinance specifically sets a
time frame of two years , as the absolute bar , if it is not .used and
you can ' t go back beyond and say , it: could have been used or should
have been :used. I will not go __in detail__ to that. I think it ' s my
memorandum and I think. it goes to that. I think the issuance and
the continuance of ,a nonconforming use. is to be constrictly construed.
Your own ordinance says where there are conflicts between varying
sections of the ordinance , particularly Section 100-11 , where
"provisions of .this chapter conflict or impose with. a different
requirement from any other provision of this chapter , . the provision
or requirement which is more restrictive or which establishes a
higher standard shall govern. So therefore , the standard of
strict construction .is_ the one that must. be applied against the
continued use of a nonconforming existence , or .nonconforming use .
And the burden should not have fallen on the adjacent neighbors to
prove before this board that this _was a continuing nonconforming use
for that.. The burden should have been on the owners of the property
who should have come before this board when the building inspector
was , put ..on notice that this certificate that he issued apparently
was based upon information that was not totally accurate and he should
have put a stop order on the work that was being per and not
let these people spend a lot of .money to repair and .add to these
,houses when they vaguely violating the ordinance and violating .other
codes for which_ they s_houldnht. have been put to that task because
they didn ' t get a stop or.der from the building department. And they
should have then come before this board and asked for a variance if
they wanted continuation_ of this nonconforming use . As set forth
in the ordinance . Thank'. you very much .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Esseks , we have one member of the . board that
came out of -.the - hospital bed tonight to make this hearing , and I.
would like to take a three-minute recess to allow--
.
.MR. ESSEKS: I believe this proceeding i.s., brought against the
building inspector , so , I don ' t. know how you do it here in Southold ,
but it would appear to me as though he would go next.
MR . CHAIRMAN : Is that who you would like?
MR.. ESSEKS: I ' m. going to do what' you decide , but it would
appear - to me as though _he ' s the respondent and--
.
L Southold Town Board of Appeals -67- June 21 , 1.984 .Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. CHAIRMAN : That 's not. to my knowledge .
MR. PACHMAN : I would respectfully differ with you .
MR. ESSEKS: My clients are not a part, of these proceedings .
MR. PACHMAN : I understand that. They were put - on notice
because they ' re an adjacent owner and they '-re the ones who are the
recipients unfortunately of an affidavit ,which they relied on ,
rightly or wrongly so..
MR. ESSEKS : Howard ,he asked me whether I agree . I think a
break is a wonderful idea . But implicit in that is .that you ' d be
expecting more testimony from me . I ' m going to call at least one
witness tonight , but I believe that it is appropriate if the
building inspector is ready to proceed for him to offer whatever
proof he has . I believe the proceeding is an im rem proceeding
brought against the town questioning whether the town was correct
in the decision , and I. intend to support the. position of the
town or at least until a conclusion , but I will proceed as you direct.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Esseks , I don ' t think specifically the
building inspector is ready to testify .
MR. ESSEKS: I 'now understand what you ' re saying. After
the break, we ' ll go on .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Can I have a motion please? .
. On motion by Mr. Sawicki ; seconded by 'Mr . Goehringer , it was
RESOLVED to recess temporarily : fo.t ippr.oximately five minutes ,
at which time the hearing will be reconvened .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , G'rigonis , Doyen ,
Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was adopted by unanimous
vote of all the members .
The board left the meeting hall , and returned at approximately
11 : 35 p .m.
On motion by Mr.. Sawicki. ,, ,.:seconded ,by Mr . Douglass , it was
RESOLVED, to reconvene the public hearing in the .matter of
Appeal No . 3234 , .TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer, Grigonis , Doyen ,
Douglass :and'-Sawi.cki : 1: Th .s . resol ution w.as unanimously adopted .
Southold .Town Board of Appeals -68- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 = ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABB.OTT/SWANSON , continued : )
J . ROBERT PETERS .was the next witness .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Do you solemnly swear that the testiimony that you
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but : the
truth?
MR. PETERS: I do . Initial , J . Robert Peters .
MR . ESSEKS: Where do' you. .live , Sir?
MR .. PETERS : I. live in Allentown , Pennsylvania .
MR. ESSEKS : And have you been here tonight and heard about this
property?
MR . PETERS : Yes , Sir.
MR. ESSEKS : And when did you first visit it? -
MR. PETERS: In 1952 .
MR. ESSEKS : What relationship were.-you or are you to the former
owner?
MR. PETERS: . My mother married Raymond Diedrick who owned the
property .
MR. ESSEKS: Did you . spend summers at the property? .
MR. PETERS : Yes , sir.
MR. ESSEKS : Did there come a time when the cottages were built?
MR. PETERS: Yes , sir .
MR . ESSEKS : Were you present at that time?
MR . PETERS : Yes , sir .
MR . ESSEKS : When were they built?
MR. PETERS: The first cottage that was started to be built Tns
1953 , and. the second o-ne was built the following year which would be
' 54 . Third and fourth were started to be built in 1956 .
MR. ESSEKS: When were they completed?
MR. PETERS : Completed in the Spring of 1957 .
MR. ESSEKS : I ' ll show you this photograph and I ' ll ask you what
it reflects .
MR . PETERS : It reflects the four cottages as I know them.
Southold. Town Board of Appeals -09- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R . TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: I offer that.
(Mr . Esseks submitted the photograph with the words "June , 1958 ,
Sent by Mrs . Raymond Diedrick, .Green.. Acres , Orient , " for the record. )
MR. ESSEKS: Is that a fair and reasonable portrayal of those
photographs in the Year 1957 and ' 58?
MR. PETERS : Yes , Sir .
MR. ESSEKS : I offer it .
MR. PACHMAN : Bill , may I see it?
MR. ESSEKS: Of course . (The photograph was shown to Mr . Pachman . )
MR. PACHMAN : Did you take that picture?
MR. PETERS : No , sir.
MR . PACHMAN : I wanted:;to know when it was taken .
MR . PETERS: It was taken in 1958 .
MR. PACHMAN : How do you know?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Excuse me , would you direct that--
MR. PACHMAN : I ' m sorry . I asked him if he took the picture . He
said , "No . And I asked him when it was taken , and .he said in 1958.
And I asked him how he knew it was taken in 1958 .
MR . PETERS : It was taken by friends of myself and my mother.
They were there visiting them in 1958 .
MR. PACHMAN : And you saw them take the picture?
MR. PETERS : I didn ' t see them.
MR. PACHMAN : No objection .
MR. ESSEKS : I have no other questions . Oh , yes I do . . In what ,
were the units rented , leased?
MR . PETERS : Yes . Number one and number_ two were rented at the
time when.. I was there .
MR. ESSEKS: Thereafter , did you know whether 3 and 4 were leased?
MR. PETERS : Yes , sir .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -70- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON., continu.ed : )
MR. ESSEKS : No other questions..
MR. PACHMAN : No questions .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you , sir .
MR. ESSEKS: I would like to read certainaffidavits into .
the record and make them part. of. the record , and if that is necessary
for to be sworn to do that , I ' ll be. sworn . Do I have to be sworn
to read?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Are you reading from some text , sir?
MR . ESSEKS: Yes .
MR. CHAIRMAN : No . It ' s not necessary .
MR. ESSEKS : If I have to be sworn , you ' ll warn me?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. ESSEKS: " . . . County of Lancaster , Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania: Before me-, a Notary Public , in and . for the County and
Commonwealth afforesaid personally „appeared Raymond . H. Diedrick who
being duly affirmed according to._ law deposes and says that to the
best of his knowledge , information and belief the structures and
improvements located on the premises in the Hamlet of Orient , Town of
Southold , Suffolk County , New York, which he sold to : . . . , " I can ' t
pronounce the name , " . . . on November 1 , 1983 , are valid and legal
nonconforming uses , said structures having been erected in about 1955 . . . . "
I offer this affidavit for his name , his address , history , and the
fact that he said it was constructed , I mean erected , in. about 1955 .
I don ' t offer it for his conclusion.
(Photocopy of affidavit of Raymond H. Diedrick was marked
" E-2 6/21 " and made a part of the file. )
MR. ESSEKS: May I start the next one.?
MR . CHAIRMAN : Yes .
MR. ESSEKS: " . . . State of New York , County of Suffol.k :
Gary Tabor , ' being duly sworn , deposes and says : 1. . I _reside .on
Nay.y Street , Orient ,_ _New York . I am forty years .of age and have
been a resident of Orient all my life . 2_. I am familiar with the
property owned by Janet Swa_nson_ and... Dorothy Abbott as I irregularly
pass by the property and have done so since 1950 . 3. I make _thi_s
affidavit to . state that to my knowledge the cottages in ques.tion on
their property has been there since before the 1957 hurricane . . . . "
May I continue? " : . . Elva Deidrick , being duly sworn , deposes and
says : 1 . That my husband , Raymond H. Deidrick and I own property
Southold Town. Board of Appeals -71 - June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR'. ESSEKS (continued) :
that we acquired from Dr . Harry C. Greene in Orient consisting of
approximately 12+ acres and described upon a survey , a copy of which
is annexed hereto . To my knowledge we acquired the property in 1947
and sold it in 1973 . 2 . A house and four cottages are shown. on the
annexed survey . The four cottages were all constructed prior to
April , 1957 . Two of the cottages were constructed in 1953 . 3 . While
we used the cottages , they were only used for residential purposes .
The two cottages erected in 1953 did not have electricity until 1954 . . . . "
" . . . June 11 , 1984 . To Whom It May Concern : I Lawrence Bruno rented
cottage number 4 from Raymond Diedrick in the summer of 1957 . The
cottages at that time were named after the Diedrick children instead
of having numbers . I also stayed in Number 1 in 1955 and Number 2 in
1956 . Sincerely, Lawrence Bruno . . . . " Sworn to before a notary in
the State of Florida .
MR . ESSEKS: You can swear the witness .
(Mr. Esseks submitted an original aff' davit of Ela M. Deedrick
for the record which was marked " E-4 , 6/21 . " and document signed by
Lawrence Bruno June 11 , 1984 , marked " E-5., 6/21 " for the record . )
Janet T. Swanson was the next witness .
MR. CHAIRMAN to JANET T. SWANSON : Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony that you are about to .give is the truth , the whole
truth and nothing but the truth? (The witness raised her right hand . )
JANET T . SWANSON : I do . Janet Swanson . Janet T. Swanson .
MR. ESSEKS : Are you one of the owners of the property in
question?
MS , SWANSON : Yes .
MR. ESSEKS: When did you first see the cottages that have
been described this evening?
MS . SWANSON : Summer of 1983.
MR . ESSEKS: Would you describe their appearance in the
Summer of 1983?
MS . SWANSON - They were boarded up . They --
MR. ESSEKS: Keep your voice up .
MS . SWANSON : Some of the windows were boarded up . The
screened porches were boarded. The doors to the cottages were there .
- And they were furnished and looked to me to be redeemable .
O
Southold Town Board of Appeals -72- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . ESSEKS : Now, was there furniture inside each cottage?
MS . SWANSON : Yes .
MR . ESSEKS: Describe the furniture that was there .
MS . SWANSON : The furniture . in Cab.in 4 , which is .the easterly
cottage , was very wet and awful because of the leak in the roof. '.'The
. other cabins, there were no leaks in the roof and it looked grungy
but it did not look ( ) (i,naudible ) .
MR. ESSEKS: Describe what kind .of furniture .
MS . SWANSON : There were maple chairs . , There were maple beds . ,
There were dressers , no mirrors . There were dishes stacked up and-
quite an abundance of them , boxes of them as a matter of fact , and
cups , saucers , glasses .
MR. ESSEKS: Who did .you buy the property from?
MS. SWANSON: Eurydice Loucoupol.ous and Herodotos Damianos .
MS. GERARDI : Could you say that once more?
MS . SWANSON': Hurydice Loucopoulos and Herodotos , H-E-R-0-T-0-S
Damianos , D-A-M- I-A-N-O-S. The monthly payments make that easy-. :.,-
MR. ESSEKS : Did you have conversations with them concerning the
prior use of the cottages before you signed the contract to buy the
property?
MS. SWANSON : Yes .
MR . ESSEKS: What did they say to you about the prior use by them
of the premises?
MS. SWANSON : They said that they have been used consistently .
through the years .
MR. ESSEKS : For what purposes?
MS . SWANSON : Rental , and for income producing .
MR . ESSEKS: By whom?
MS . SWANSON : A lot of employees , I believe they were employees ,
of their businesses , but I don ' t .know.
MR. ESSEKS: I ' ll show you this photograph and I ' ll ask you what
it reflects .
MS. SWANSON : That ' s Cabin 1 kitchen . It' s numbered Number Four ,
but it ' s Number One .
01
Southold Town Board of Appeals -73- J.une. 21 , 1984. Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS: And when you first saw the cottages in the Summer of 1983 ,
did the inside , is that how the cottage looked as shown in the photograph?
MS . SWANSON : Yes .
MR. ESSEKS : I offer it .
MS . SWANSON : No , we took some curtains down . Sorry. There were curtains
up here and we took curtains down .
MR. ESSEKS :' Were there curtains in the windows of these cottages?
MS . SWANSON : Yes .
MR . ESSEKS: Were there curtains in the windows of any other cottages?
MS . SWANSON : Yes , .but I can ' t tell you which ones . I believe they were
but I can ' t --
MR. ESSEKS : Besides curtains , crockery , beds , were there any appliances
. in these cottages?
MS . SWANSON : Yes , there were . They were stoves and refrigerators , you
could not test the stove-- I mean you could not test:; the refrigerator
since there was no electricity , but the stoves were working . :'
MR. ESSEKS : What kind of stoves?
MS. SWANSON : Gas . Conservative Gas .
MRI., ESSEKS : Did you turn them on?
MS . SWANSON : Yes . We turned them on in 3 and 4; I don ' t remember if
we turned them on in 1 and 2 .
MR . ESSEKS : Were there screens in the windows?
MS® SWANSON : Not all of them, no .
MR. ESSEKS: I offer that photograph . (Photograph was marked as E-6 , 6/21 )
MR. ESSEKS : Questions?
MR . PACHMAN : This is Cabin 1 or 4?
MS . SWANSON : Is that the one I just looked , at?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes , ma' am.
MS . SWANSON : It '. s Number 1 . That Number 4 I think Mr. Lessard put on
it. It ' s the westerly cabin .
MR . PACHMAN : It is the one closest to Truckenbrodt?
r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -74- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MS . SWANSON : Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : Is that the one that had the curtains on the window and
the lamp in the window?
MS . SWANSON : In the living room?
MR. PACHMAN : Yes . The one facing the Truckenbrodt and the Mearns
and. the Hess .
MS . SWANSON : There was curtains in the--
MR. PACHMAN : Is that the one where the one wall was ( ) on the outside?
(.Word.:was uncl:ear . due to noise in background . )_,
MS . SWANSON : I don ' t know about painting of the walls . Somebody told
me that they had painted a wall on that side toward Mr. Truckenbrodt ,
but .I don ' t know--
MR. PACHMAN : Did they indicate to you why? . Did they indica1te to you
why .they put curtains up in ..the house?
MS . SWANSON : I .:di.dn ' t know they put them up .
MR. PACHMAN : They didn ' t tell you that they put the curtains up?
MS. SWANSON : No . They--
MR. ESSEKS: Howard , I ' m offering a pho.tograph .
MR. PACHMAN : I ' m just asking her because she , the identification of
this_ particular photograph w.as confusing between l . and 4 . I ' m trying
to ascertain . its._ identity .
MR . ESSEKS: That ' s Number 1 .
MR. PACHMAN : It ' s Numberl , the one closest to Truckbrodt . Thank you
very„ much.
MR. ESSEKS : I have no other questions .
MR. PACHMAN : No questions .
MR. ESSEKS: Mr. Beebe?
William M. Beebe was.. the .,next witness .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Would you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth , the whole
truth , and nothing but the truth?
WILLIAM BEEBE: I do .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -75- June 21 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRU.CKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN : Excuse me . I do respectfully request to call Mrs. Swanson
back again .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Right now?
MR. PACHMAN : Well , it can wait.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Ok .
MR. ESSEKS: Are you going to question Mr . Beebe?
MR. PACHMAN : I do not know what he has to say .
MS . GERARDI : Can I have your full name please?
WILLIAM B . BEEBE: William M. Beebe .
MS . GERARDI : Spell it .
MR. BEEBE: B-E-E-B- E.
MR. ESSEKS: What is your trade or profession?
MR. BEEBE: Building contractor.
MR . ESSEKS : When was the first time that you saw the cottages in
question?
MR. BEEBE: I guess it was January ' 84 .
MR. ESSEKS: Do you .know whether anyone had done any work on the cottages
six months prior to January of 1984?
MR. BEEBE : I don ' t think they have , no .
MR. ESSEKS : How much do you weigh , Mr. Beebe?
MR. BEEBE: Two-hundred sixty lbs . Thank you .
MR. ESSEKS : Did you walk up and down other stairs--were there stairs
in January of 1984 on each of the cottages? ,
MR. BEEBE : Yes there was .
MR. ESSEKS: Did you walk up and down them?.
MR. BEEBE: Yes , I d.id.
MR. ESSEKS: Did they break?
MR . BEEBE : No .
MR. ESSEKS : Did you , have you done some carpentry work on the cottages ?
. r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -76- June 21 , iy84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. BEEBE : Yes .
MR. ESSEKS : Will you describe to the board in your opinion as a.' builder
whether the building was structurally sound or not prior to your work on
them?
MR. BEEBE: Well , structurally sound they were . There were no. sags in
the roofs . There were no holes in the roofs . Number 4, I guess it is ,
. to the east , had leaks in the roof. The other , Number 3 might have had
a couple of leaks , but Number 1 and 2 were , they were both good roofs .
MR. ESSEKS: Did they have doors on them?
MR. BEEBE: They had .doors on them:, in,..-fact they were there , tight ,
and the man I had with me and I had' to pry them open with bars to get
into them.
MR. ESSEKS: Did they have windows?
MR. BEEBE : Most of them had windows . There were a few broken glass .
The porches , most of them , had shutters , ( ) up and down , they were
closed , and the screens were pretty well shot in there .
MR . ESSEKS : Did you recollect--
MR. PACHMAN : I didn ' t hear that , :.again . . What was that?
MR. BEEBE: The screens on the porches were pretty well shot , done by
vandals -.-must .'have happened . .
MR. ESSEKS : Was there furniture in the cottages?
MR. BEEBE : Yes , there was .
MR. PACHMAN : Did you enter into a contract with Swanson and Abbott
to do work?
MR. BEEBE: It wasn' t a written contract.
MR. PACHMAN : What was the amount of the contract for the work that
you ' re performing?
MR . BEEBE: Well it wasn ' t a contract.
MR. PACHMAN : Well , how much--
MR. BEEBE: I ' m doing it time and material .
MR. PACHMAN : Are you being paid for your work?
MR. BEEBE: Yes .
MR. PACHMAN : And you are being paid to do the work that you are doing?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -77- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. BEEBE : Right .
MR. PACHMAN : And that ' s why you ' re here today , sir , right?
MR. BEEBE: Right .
MR. PACHMAN : Thank you . No further questions .
MR. CHAIRMAN :. Mrs . Swanson--
MR. ESSEKS: I .don ' t want her. He wants her.
MR. CHAIRMAN : He wants her back . Do you want to wait till later?
MR. ESSEKS: Let him wait till later . May I inquire of the building
inspector , sir?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr . Esseks , I will not speak for the building inspector .
If the building inspector wishes , it ' s entirely up to. him.
MR. ESSEKS: I would like the record to reflect , if I may , that the
.property in question is now zoned:.. for residential purposes , and has
been so zoned continually since the advent of zoning in .the Town of
Southold , is that correct? Can we take that as a ( ) , otherwise
I ' ll call the building inspector and ask him is that true .
MR. CHAIRMAN : I can ' t answer that . I won ' t answer that because I
don ' t know if the map was . changed or not.
MR. ESSEKS : Mr . building inspector , would you come up? Mr. Chairman ,
instead of asking the building inspector,, who may be as reticent as
you , I believe that your counsel will .advise the board , the board
takes judicial notice of .the zoning ordinances of the towns since
they ' re in such--and if for such period of time' in there this property
was zoned for motion picture theaters or something like that, I ' ll
stand correct; but I believe that it was-always been zoned one-family
residential .
MR . CHAIRMAN : I would assume that.
MR. ESSEKS: I don ' t need the building inspector .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr . Lessard , would you raise your right hand please?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about to give
is the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth?
VICTOR LESSARD: I do .
MS . GERARDI : Full name?
VICTOR LESSARD : Victor G . Lessard . L-E-S-S-A-R-D .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -78- June 21 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. ESSEKS : I will show you these seven photographs , Mr . Lessard. Did
you take them?
MR. LESSARD: No , sir , Mr . Curtis Horton took them when I was with him.
MR. ESSEKS : Are they pictures of .the cottages that have been the subject
of so much discussion tonight?
MR. LESSARD : Yes , sir ;
MR. ESSEKS : When were they taken?
MR . LESSARD : When were they taken?
MR . ESSEKS : Yes .
MR. LESSARD: They were taken the loth of February.
MR. ESSEKS: Of this year?
MR. LESSARD: Of this year , yes , sir . 1984.
MR , ESSEKS : And are they a fair and accurate representation of the
state of facts that . existed on February loth of this year?
MR. LESSARD : Yes , sir .
MR . ESSEKS: I offer them.
MR. LESSARD: I would like to clarify the numbers on this so the
board won ' t get confused , ok? When. these photos were taken , we
had come down from the main house and as we took them we numbered
them one , two , three , four; and now I find out I 'm in complete
reverse from everyone else , 'but that ' s. .why they ' re numbered this way .
MR . CHAIRMAN : Are you saying that east is Number l ?
MR. LESSARD: That 's right , sir .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Pachman wants to look at them.
MR. PACHMAN : May I ask him some questions?
MR . CHAIRMAN: If you direct them toward the Board please.
MR . PACHMAN : This is the state of the buildings as you found them
when you came in since there were complaints made by, the adjacent
neighbors , is that correct , sir? :.
MR. LESSARD: That ' s right .
MR. PACHMAN : Wasn ' t there work being performed in and about the
premises - at that time?
MR. LESSARD : Yes , there was .
. � r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -7.9- June 21 , iy84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN: So that you don ' t know if this was the actual state of
these buildings before work was constructed , do you?
MR. ESSEKS : Witness suggests that it was .
MR. PACHMAN: Well I would like him to say it for the record--
MR . LESSARD: Being in the.-car..pehter business for 40 years , I know
new work from existing , sir .
MR. PACHMAN : I did.n ' t ask you that , sir.
MR. LESSARD: That ' s what you inferred .
MR. PACHMAN : This is what you saw on the date that you saw it. You
do not know what it was two days before , a week before , or a month
before?
MR. LESSARD: That's true .
MR. PACHMAN : Ok . And do you know of your own knowledge if they
were . occupied for two months , three months , one year , two years or
three years prior to that time?
MR. LESSARD : No , sir , I don ' t .
MR. PACHMAN : No further questions . I don ' t object to the photographs
at all .
MR . ESSEKS : I ' d like to bring Janet Swanson back.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you , Mr. Lessard. Could you just give me a
minute to ' number these please? (The Chairman was handed the seven
photographs , which were marked E-6 through E-12 for the record . )
MR. ESSEKS : Had any work been done on the cottages between the time
that you bought them and the time the picture , the pictures were taken
in February of ' 84?
JANET SWANSON : To the roofs , a no .
MR . ESSEKS : Anything :else?
MS . SWANSON : I think we did some cutting around in that time . I
think some of the growth was cut back .
MR. ESSEKS : The buildings themselves .
MS . SWANSON : No .
MR. ESSEKS: I have no other questions . Howard?
Y M
Southold Town Board of Appeals -80- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : ).
MR. PACHMAN : Pror to the time ( ) back to the property and during the
time that you owned the property , do you know of your own knowledge
whether any houses were occupied , the cabins? Do you know of anybody?
MS . SWANSON : No .
MR . PACHMAN : You have no knowledge . You relied purely on the affidavit.
as you received from the former owner ..... So the last three ( ) , you had
no knowledge that those buildings were occupied. by anybody?
MS . SWANSON : I wasn ' t. acquainted with the property then .
MR. PACHMAN : No questions .
MR . ESSEKS : Mr . Chairman , we have asked the owners who sold the
property to the present owners and who made the affidavit to the
building inspector to appear and testify , and they. have not responded
to our strong request , they indicated a misunderstanding and therefore
I ' m going to ask for a continuance for some period of time to bring
them in because I would think their testimony would not only be
relevant but of interest to the . town ' s board of appeals based upon
the fact that the building inspector is an officer of the town , and
I have considerable summary and argument to make , but if I ' m going
to be granted my continuance ; I would like to make it afterwards .
If I ' m not going to be granted my continuance , I would make it tonight.
Seeing that it ' s midnight , I don ' t really see how my request is
terribly out .of line . I hope it will .b.e granted .
MR. CHAIRMAN : As I have told the public . in the past , we usually
grant one recess . The recess is usually until the next regularly
scheduled meeting . If not , then we have to readvertise .
MR. ESSEKS: I understand .
MR . CHAIRMAN : And I would like you to bear the cost of the advertising
if it is not at the next regularly scheduled meeting .
MR . ESSEKS : I have no trouble with the next regularly scheduled
meeting unless something happens to my witness . I will bear _the costs .
MR. CHAIRMAN : No , you don ' t have to bear the costs because we don '.t
have to readvertise if it ' s the next regularly scheduled meeting.
. MR. ESSEKS: If there has to be a readvertising , I ' ll bear the costs .
MR. PACHMAN : Mr . Chairman , members of the board. I respectfully
disagree�; and heartily object '..to '. the requirement that this hearing
be adjourned. I think that Mr. Esseks.. had three or four weeks'
notice , maybe more , that this hearing was scheduled for the 21st.
If he did not have the opportunity to have a voluntary appearance
on the part of Damianos and the co-owners , he had the same right and
obligation to subpoenae those witnesses to come before this meeting
Southold Town Board of Appeals -81 - June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR . PACHMAN (continued) :
tonight the same way I did. I don ' t see why it was necessary for me
to be prepared to meet the burden of my proof tonight, and he was not
necessarily required to meet the burden of his opposition to my proof.
I think he had every opportunity to subpoena those witnesses . I
think those witnesses are hostile to him. He kn.ew they were hostile
to him. They indicated a reluctance to testify based upon his
statements . . I do not want this board to work .beyond midnight , and
I ' m really very sorry that one of the members is not well , but I
think this meeting was to be held a month ago , work is continuing
unabated , contrary to the ordinance and if the owners would stipulate
not to do any further work on the premises pending a determination
of this board ,_ I think I will consult with my clients and see if that
would be accepted .
MR. ESSEKS : I ' m not going to make that offer to stipulate. I ' ve never
heard of that being required of the board. The board , they know it ,.
even the secretary knows , that I have been out of the Country for
almost two weeks and I requested that it not be heard tonight so I
could have some control over whether witnesses would appear or not ,
and. despite my request and with Mr. Pachman ' s insistence this matter
was held tonight . And you have the absolute right to hold things
when you want to , but I think my request is not cruelly brought , it ' s
not in bad faith , it ' s after midnight . I think the board ought to
hear the testimony of the people who sold the property to my clients .
MR. CHAIRMAN : This determination is not mine . It ' s the determination
of the board .
MR. ESSEKS: I understand .
MR . CHAIRMAN : And at this particular time , unless Mr . Pachman has
anything else to say we will go into a caucus ,for a sho..rt period of
time , and come back with a _decision .
MR. ESSEKS : All right. But if in fact you don ' t grant my application ,
I ' m not. through . But to repeat myself, .I would like not to sum up
and give my arguments until after my, case is in ...it. So if you grant
my application for an adjournment , _.I ' ll go away . If you don ' t grant
my application for an . adjournment , I .w,ill then go into my .arguments .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr Pachman , I would assume then you have nothing further
to present to this board?
MR. PACHMAN : Based upon the information that has been su.pplied
tonight and what I '.ve given , I .think this board has adequate informa-
tion to make the determination . I do feel that if Mr . Esseks is
going to make some eloquent statements to thsi board , I would be
given the o.ppo.rtunity of .a reply . Other than that , I think the matter
should be continue .;toni.ght and _come to its conclusion .
MR. CHAIRMAN : We ' ll take a five-minute recess for the purpose of
discussing this issue .
On motion by Mr . Goehringer , seconded by Mr . Grigonis , it was
Southold Town Board of Appeals -82- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
RESOLVED , to recess temporarily for five minutes .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution. was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
RECONVENING:'OF:.REG.ULAR''MEETING: On motion by Mr . Sawicki ,
seconded by Mr . .Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , to reconvene the Regular Meeting of this board.
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
The meeting reconvened at approximately 12 : 12 o ' clock a .m.
DATE', OF NEXT REGULAR MEETING : On motion by Mr. Goehringer ,
seconded by Mr . Douglass , it was
RESOLVED , that the next Regular Meeting of this board is
THURSDAY , JULY 26 , 1984 commencing at 7 : 30 o ' clock p .m. , to be
held at the Southold Town Hall , Main Road , Southold , .New York .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
RECONVENING OF TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON : Appeal No . 3234 :
MR . CHAIRMAN : Mr. Esseks and Mr . Pachman , we have discussed
the extension . that you have request , and the board is in agreement
to grant the extension for the purpose of what I mentioned before ,
I prefaced to-- I said that we normally grant one extension . And
we ' ll vote on that .now. The meeting will be held , will cont.inue
on July 26 , 1984 at 8: 30 p .m . , and we ' ll vote on that now. Do
you have anything further before we close this-- I mean recess this
hearing?
MR. PACHMAN : Mr. Chairman , just so I understand the rules , if
I may . He ' s just going to bring in Damianot at that time , am I
correct? And then he is going to make a summary of his arguments
and I will have a chance to reply , is that what we ' re doing?
MR. CHAIRMAN : That' s what I assume .
r *
Southold Town Board of Appeals -83- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3234 - ARTHUR R. TRUCKENBRODT/ABBOTT/SWANSON , continued : )
MR. PACHMAN : We ' re not expecting anybody else?
MR. ESSEKS: I don ' t. know that.
MR. PACHMAN : I want to know that now.
MR. ESSEKS : I don ' t. know., but if .I hear of ,any,. 'I.',ll let you
know so you can prepare yourself ,to oppose it . ___ But_. I don_' t... know of
any other tonight---
MR.. PACHMAN : Ok. Then we ' re just talking about the two
Damianos , or each one of '.those , -_right? . Either one of them or both?
MR. ESSEKS: That' s. all I can think of right now , Howard , to
be candid with you .-
MR . PACHMAN: You ' re always candid with me . ,
MR. ESSEKS: If ,, I can think of .any others in between , I ' ll let
you know .and the board know, and y_ou and the board can take whatever
_position-
MR. PACHMAN :. At least 10 days ' notice?
Mr. Esseks nodded affirmatively .
MR. PACHMAN : Thank you very much .
.MR. CHAIRMAN : Hearing no further questions , I.' ll make a motion
recessing this - hearing until 830 .p .m. _on. J.uly 26th .
On motion by' Mr . Goehringer , seconded by M-r. Grigonis , it was
RESOLVED , to r. ecess . Appe.al No . 3234 , application in the matter of
A: 'TRUCKENBRODT/A.BBO.TT/SWANS.ON until the next Regular Meeting of
July 26 , 1984 , at -8 : 30 o ' clock p .m._ _.
Vote . of .the. Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Dou.g_l ass and Sawi.ck.i . This 'res.ol ution was unanimously
adopted 'by__,all the members ._
MR, CHAIRMAN : Th.ak' you very much everybody for coming in .
MR. PACHMAN : Thank you .
NEW 'APPLICATI.ON REV-IEW:. 'Appeal No . ' 3257 - A .M: "AND E :F.' STOLL-
MEYER. Insuffi:ci_ent area ._in th__i_s proposed set.-off.-.of a parcel of,__
1 and at Soundview .Avenue , 'Southol d-n
. . d
Southold Town Board of Appeals -84- June 21 , iv84 Regular Meeting
(Appeal No . 3257 - STOLLMEYER review, continued: )
On motion by Mr. Douglass , seconded by Mr . Sawicki , it was
RESOLVED , that Appeal No. 3257., application for A . M. AND E . F .
STOLLMEYER , for permission to set off lot containing insufficient
area in this proposed subdivision , be held in ABEYANCE PENDING an
application to .and receipt of comments or action -from the Planning
Board .
Vote of the. Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was' unani.mously
adopted by all the members .
NEW APPLICATION REVIEW: Appeal No . 3.254: EUGENE DAVISON .
Proposed set=off of substandard parcel out of 12,. 6 acres . It
was the consensus .of the board. that since th_e ..application involved
jurisdiction of the Planning Board , that this matter be held in
abeyance pending application to , and comments from , the Planning
Board ,
On motion by Mr . Douglass , seconded by Mr . Sawicki ,. it was
RESOLVED, that Appeal No . 3257 , application of EUGENE 'DAVISON
for permission to set-off lot containing insufficient area in this
proposed division of lan.d ,_ containing an acreage of 12 . 6 , be held
in ABEYANCE PENDING an application to and receipt of- comments or
action from .the Planning Board .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
Following the resolution , it -was brought to the board' s,
attention that another application of the -same premises has been
pending i.nvol.ving additional living quarters in the second floor
of the existing horse stable ._ The P. l.anning. Board is to be.
reminded of this request of ,February 24 , 1984.
SCHEDULING OF NEW HEARINGS : On motion by Mr . Douglass ,
seconded by Mr. Sawicki , .it was
RESOLVED , that the secretary is hereby authorized and directed
to advertise the following matters gursuan_t to law for public
hearings to be held at the next Regular Meeting of this board , to
wit : Ju1y.- 26 , 1984:
(a ) Appeal No . 3217 = JOSEPH 'A: WANAT;
w
Southold Town Board of Appeals -85- June 21 , . 984 Regular Meeting
(Hearings for next meeting , continued : )
(b ) Appeal No . 3252 - JOHN CHARLES AND M. SLEDJESKI ;
(c ) Appeal No . 3255 - THOMAS HIGGINS;
(d ) Appeal No . 3256 -. SOUTHOLD EQUITIES:
(e ) Appeal No . 3258 = 'VINCENT GRIFFO ;
(f) Appeal No . 3259 = 'NICHOLAS ALIANO:
(g ) Appeal No. 3260 - JOHN GIANNARIS (Hellenic Cabins ) ;
(h ) Appeal No . 3261 = JOHN SIMICICH .
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawick.i . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
REFERRALS TO SUFFOLK COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION : On motion
by Mr . Douglass , seconded by Mr . Grigonis , it was
RESOLVED, to refer the following matters to the Suffolk
County Planning Commission in -accordance with Sections 1323 , et
seq . of the Suffolk County Charter; with copies of entire files ;
(a ) Appeal No . 3244 - FATHER JOHN DENNY;
(b ) Appeal No . 3245 - DAVID AND JEANNE BRAWNER:
(c ) Appeal No . 3247 - ERNEST AND JEAN STUMPF;
(d ) Appeal No . 3227 - EUSTACE C . ERIKSEN:
(e ) Appeal No . 3248 - JOHN GRIGONIS;
(f) Appeal No . 3232 - BERTRAM AND MARGERY _ WALKER:
(g ) Appeal No . 3222 - JOHN 'WICKHAM; 'ET 'AL;
(h ) Appeal No . 3118 - KATHRINE FARR;
( i ) Appeal No . 3117 = KATHRINE FARR.
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer ,. Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members . _
f �
'Southold Town Board of )peals -86- June 21 ; 1 Regular Meeting
ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATIONS: On motion by Mr. Douglass , seconded
.by Mr . Sawicki . it was
RESOLVED, to declare the following Ne_g�a_t���ive Environmental Declara-
tions pursuant to the N .Y . S . Envi_ronmentaQuality Review ct of the
Environmental Conservation Law , and . Local Law #44_-4 of .the Town of
Southold , for the following as individually noted below :
S.E.Q.R.A.
>> NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
! � Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
� I
APPEAL NO..:', 3217
PROJECT NAME: JOSEPH WANAT
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4 of the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar.
project.
TYPE OF ACTION: [ ] Type II [ ] Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Variance for insufficient width.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: Bergen Ave. , Matti-tuck, NY
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-112-1-16
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted which indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environment are likely to occur should this project be imple-
mented as planned;
(2) Approval has been received from the N.Y. S. Department of En-
vironm al Conservation concerning this projects under Permit No. 10-84-0138.
The property in question is at an ele-vation of 10 or more ee
above mean sea level.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of .Appeals,._ T_ own Hall, Southold, NY 11971; tel. 516_
765-1809 or 1802 ..
Copies -of this notice sent to the. applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
f M
f
Southold Town Board of Appeals -87- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
S.E.Q.R.A.
NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
APPEAL NO. : 3256
PROJECT NAME: SOUTHOLD EQUITIES
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to ,Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4' of the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar
project..
TYPE OF ACTION: [ Type II [X ] Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Variance for insufficient area of lots
in this proposed division of 'property.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: Main Rd. , . Traveler St. , Southold, NY
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-61-1-15.1
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted which indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environment are likely to occur should this project be imple-
mented as planned;
(2) The property in question is not located within 300 feet of
tidal wetlands or other critical environmental' area.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of Appeals,. Town Hall, Southold, NY 11971; tel. 516-
765-1809 or 1802 .
Copies of this notice sent to the applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
Southold Town Board of Appeals 7887 June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
S.E.Q.R.A.
NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
APPEAL NO. :3255
PROJECT NAME: THOMAS HIGGINS
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4 of the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar
project..
TYPE OF ACTION: [g] Type II [ ] Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Variance for insufficient frontyard
setback of deck addition.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: Cedar Point Dr. , ..Southold,.. NY
County Tax Map Parcel NO. 1000-90-3-14
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted which .indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environment are likely to occur should this project be imple-
mented as pa!anned;
(2) Abroad or structure exists between the activity . proposed
and tidal wetlands (or other critical environmental area) .
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of .Appeals, Town Hall, Southold, NY 11971; tel. . 516- .
765-1809 or 1802 ..
Copies -of this notice sent to the applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
1 � _
Southold Town Board of Appeals -89- June 21 , ` 1-9 4 Regular Meeting
S.E.Q.R.A.
NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
APPEAL NO. : 3258
PROJECT NAME: VINCENT GRIFFO
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4 of the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar
project..
TYPE OF ACTION: [X] Type II [ ] Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Variance for accessory tennis court ,
fencing, pavillion in an area other than
the required rearyard.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: Robinson Rd. , Paradise Point, Southold, NY
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-81-1-16._1
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) ' An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted which indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environment are likely to occur should this .project be imple-
mented as planned;
(2)
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of Appeals,._ Town Hall, 'Southold, NY 11971; tel. 516-
765-1809 or 1802.
Copies of this notice sent to the applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
I Y
Southold Town Board of Appeals -90- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
S.E.Q.R.A.
NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
APPEAL NO. : 3259
PROJECT NAME: NICHOLAS ALIANO
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4' of the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated .
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar
project..
TYPE OF ACTION: [ ] Type II [X ] Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Special -Exception for motel unit and office
building.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: S/S Front .St. , Greenport, NY
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-46-1-2.1
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted which indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environment are likely to occur should this project be imple-
mented as planned;
(2) The property in question is not located within 3.00 feet of
tidal wetlands or other critical environmental area.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of .Appeals,.. Town Hall, Southold, NY 11971; tel. 516-
765-1809 or 1802.
Copies of this notice sent to the applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
1 '
Southold Town Board of Appeals -92' June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
S.E.Q.R.A.
NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
APPEAL NO. : 3260
PROJECT NAME : JOHN GIANNARIS (Hellenic Cabins)
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4 of. the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar
project..
TYPE OF ACTION: [ ] Type II [ ] Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Variance for accessory off-street parking
facilities.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of, Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: E/S "Hellenic Cabins" Main Rd. , East Marion, NY
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-35-2-15.1
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted which indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environitient are likely to occur should this project be imple-
mented as planned;
(2) The property in question is not .located within 300 feet of tidal
wetlands or other critical environmental area.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of Appeals, Town Hall, Southold, NY 11971; tel. 516-
765-1809 or 1802.
Copies of this notice sent to the applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
r r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -92- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
S.E.Q.R.A.
NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATION
Notice of Determination of Non-Significance
APPEAL NO. : 3261
PROJECT NAME: JOHN SIMICICH
This notice is issued pursuant to Part 617 of the implementing
regulations pertaining to Article 8 of the N.Y.S. Environmental
Quality Review Act of the Environmental Conservation Law and Local
Law #44-4 of the Town of Southold.
This board determines the within project not to have a signifi-
cant adverse effect on the environment for the reasons indicated
below.
Please take further notice that this declaration should not be
considered a determination made for any other department or agency
which may also have an application pending for the same or similar
project..
TYPE OF ACTION: . C ] Type II Unlisted [ ]
DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: Insufficient. area & width variance, and
request for updated approval of access.
LOCATION OF PROJECT: Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, more
particularly known as: W/S Camp Mineola Rd.. , Mattituck, NY
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-122-5-3.3
REASON (S) SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION:
(1) An Environmental Assessment in the short form has been
submitted wb.ich indicates that no significant adverse effects to
the environment are likely to occur should this project be imple-
mented as planned;
(2) The property in question is not located within 300 feet of tidal
wetlands or other critical environmental area.
(3) The property in question is at an elevation of 10 or more feet
abov mean sea level.
?OR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Linda Kowalski, Secretary,
Southold Town Board of Appeals,.. Town Hall, Southold, NY 11971; tel. 516-
765-1809 or 1802.
Copies of this notice sent to the applicant or his agent and posted
on the Town Clerk Bulletin Board.
1 r A -.
Southold Town Board of Appeals - 93- June 21 , 1984 Regular Meeting
( Environmental Declarations - continued) :
Vote of the Board : Ayes : Messrs . Goehringer , Grigonis ,
Doyen , Douglass and Sawicki . This resolution was unanimously
adopted by all the members .
NEW APPEAL REVIEW:. Appeal No . 3253 - ELVIRA MORGENSTERN. On
May 23 ; 1984 , Mrs . Morganstern filed an appeal for a variance
pursuant to the May 23 , 19844 Notice of Disapproval of the Building
Inspector in order to change lot lines . On June 5 , 1984 , the.
.Planning Board suggested that since the conveyance of 5 ,022 sq .
ft. from the. larger parcel to the smaller parcel would increase
the substandard lot, and .would not create an undersized area
of the larger lot , that the matter would not appear to need a
variance . The Planning Board will be .r_ equesting covenants and
restrictions similar to the following :
1 . Lot to be transferred to the house lot of Elvira Morgen-
stern as a nonbuildable lot;
2 . No further subdivision of-'.either lot in the future .
On June 20 , 1984 , the Z. B .A. submitted that. June 5 , 1984
letter to . the building inspector for his final determination and
further clarification . Mr. Lessard indicated to the board that
Mrs . Morgenstern will not require action of the Board of Appeals
under the circumstances of this unique situation and will be
sending a memorandum to that effect tomorrow.
Being there was no other business properly coming before the
. board at this time , and in light of the- lateness of the hour ,
the Chairman declared the meeting adjourned .
The meeting adjourned. at approximately 12 : 45 o ' clock a .m.
June 22 , 1984.
Respectfully submitted ,
Linda F. Kowalski , Secretary
Southold Town_ Board of Appeals
erard P.._Goelfringer Chairman
r
THE CiU�'ifGI'D i C�V1.1.4 C:L: �a';
Town Clerk, Town of scut old