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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-10/09/2003 HEAR SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS SPECIAL MEETING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS HELD OCTOBER 9,2003 (Prepared by Jessica Boger) Present were: Chairwoman Lydia A. Tortora Member Gerard P. Goehringer Member Ruth D. Oliva Member Vincent Orlando Linda Kowalski, Secretary Absent were: Member George Horning PUBLIC HEARINGS: 7:40pm Combs, R & A / Mark Schwartz, Arch. #5393 (Carryover from 9/25 for floor plans, submitted) This is a request for Variances under Sections 100-242A, 100-244, and 100-33, based on the Building Department's Notice of Disapproval _ amended July 17, 2003 concerning proposed additions/alterations to the dwelling with side yards at less than 15 on one side and 20' on the other side,for a total at less - than five (5) feet from the property line. Location: 6525 Indian Neck Lane, Peconic; 86-6-24. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? MARK SCHWARTZ,ARCH: Mark Schwartz, architect for the project. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay,what can you tell us? MR. SCHWARTZ: You had asked for the existing floor plans and proposed floor plans, which I submitted. CHAIRWOMAN: Yes you did. MR. SCHWARTZ; As I mentioned at the previous hearing,it's going to be a cape style house, one and a half stories,you have the first floor plan. The second floor plan will have space for probably 2 bedrooms and one bathroom,but we are not going to,the space will be there. We're not going to finish this off as part of this project. MEMBER OLIVA: You have plans here for 2 kitchens, Mr. Schwartz? i 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MR. SCHWARTZ: No. MEMBER OLIVA: Then I don't understand. This is proposed I"floor plan. I was confused. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Schwartz, if you could use the microphone because we don't get anything on the record. MEMBER OLIVA: Sorry. MR. SCHWARTZ: There's one plan. The first sheet shows you the existing floor plan. The second sheet shows the proposed. The third sheet actually shows the existing floor plan with a dotted line to show the footprint of the proposed to try to clarify what area we adding to that footprint. CHAIRWOMAN: It's actually much clearer than it was for the public hearing. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Now my question is the same question I had at the public hearing. And that is,there was discussion about what you refer to as the first bedroom. That is going to remain. That is an encroachment on the property line. MR. SCHWARTZ: I think it's like 2",or 6" from the property line. It's very close. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That is staying? MR. SCHWARTZ: That is staying as is. It's going to be, it was a bedroom,we are going to utilize it as a closet. CHAIRWOMAN: That's what we, there was some confusion about the hearing, at the hearing, about whether that small little niche that's really at 0 lot line is going to remain. I think we got that cleared up. Yes it is going to remain. MR. SCHWARTZ: Exactly as is. CHAIRWOMAN: Only going to be one story. MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes,we're not going to be changing that at all. CHAIRWOMAN: The new addition is not going to further increase, or go on the 0 lot line. It's going to follow the line of the house directly to the south, correct? MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Clear to me. I personally think the applicant has an unusual situation. There is no expansion with a key area that I was concerned about with the expansion of that little niche. It is an extremely narrow lot. It's only 80'wide, although it's very deep. Page 2 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING And there are limitations on it. So I personally do not have a problem. I don't really think the applicant has any other alternatives in this instance. Mr. Goehringer? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: We could, of course,make you cut back that area that is within 2" of the existing property, since this is really like a total renovation of the house. Is it not? I mean they are moving out to do this renovation,right? MR. SCHWARTZ: We haven't discussed that,but yes, it's big enough that they may have to move out. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I don't know at what point 50%mark is,it's probably at least 50%, if not more. Not in reference to total square footage,but in reference to things that are going to be done to the house. So again,we could make it more conforming if we wanted to,but it appears the board doesn't to do that. I don't mean that in a sarcastic manner,I mean that in a pragmatic manner. So,we'll go from there. CHAIRWOMAN: Let me ask you a question. If we cut this back,how many inches? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: He said it was 2". CHAIRWOMAN: So if we cut this back,what are you suggesting? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I'm not suggesting, if it's,2" or a foot,it's still very close to the property line. CHAIRWOMAN: What are you suggesting that he would cut it back? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: In reality, 3' MR. SCHWARTZ: In that area,I don't think so. Is there a basement under... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Excuse me,Mr. Combs,because we are recording, somebody else needs to transcribe it. What was the question? MR. COMBS: Not a question,just a statement that the structure existed before the current owner purchased the property. Years ago apparently they were not that accurate with surveys and the 2nd former owner discovered when they were putting their affairs in order that we were actually over the line and he deeded,there is a separate deed for that few inches of property. And at the time, I wanted to purchase some more, and he didn't want to sell it. MEMBER ORLANDO: That section, that 10'x10', or whatever, there is a full basement under that? MR. COMBS: It's not a full,but it is up on block, and it's excavated underneath. That's how I got the heat out there when we... Page 3 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MEMBER ORLANDO: Oh, so it's a crawlspace. It's not a full 8'basement. MR. COMBS: Pardon, sir? . MEMBER ORLANDO: It's a crawlspace with a wooden, I'm sorry, dirt floor? MR. COMBS: Yes I think it is dirt floor,but it's block. It goes down quite a ways. But that's how that happened. Apparently the survey years ago, surveys,were not as accurate. As a matter of fact,when the people moved in that had a house, they had a fence put up which we never had there, and they put it up 5'on their line, and then came back and moved it when they discovered that their architect or whatever, fence builder had made an error. MEMBER OLIVA: And how long has that... MR. COMBS: We had actually been mowing the lawn and everything on about 5'of that for probably 40 years. MEMBER OLIVA: How long has that house been there,though? MR. COMBS: The house was built in 1947. And the addition Agnes,was? MRS. COMBS: '49. MR. COMBS: '48 or'49. So that has been there since that time. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Schwartz, could you give us a cost estimate of what it would be to remove a 3' section of that little spit? A rough cost estimate. MR. SCHWARTZ: I don't think I'd be able to give you anything very accurate. To be honest with you. It just would, it's considerable. I couldn't give you a number off the top of my head. Thousands of dollars. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Goehringer? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I apologize for making you sit back down again,Mr. Combs,but my question to you is, is the owner of that 3 '/2 acres the same owner presently that you bought that little bit of area from? MR. COMBS: That was 2 owners back. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That was 2 owners back. That property, is that vacant? MR. COMBS: No, sir. Page 4 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MEMBER GOEHRINGER: There is a house on it? MR. COMBS: Yes. They put a swimming pool and a poolhouse and a dock out over the wetlands. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I apologize. I was fixated on your house and I didn't look at that house. I looked at the house on the opposite side. MR. COMBS: They've done a great deal of work. And they took out a lot of the natural vegetation that was there. But that's neither here nor there. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: But they definitely know that your property line is within 2" of... MR. COMBS: Yes sir. Because when they purchased it I called and asked if they wanted to consider selling some. And they said no. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Who brought the issue up at the hearing that this... MR. COMBS: I believe it was a stepfather or father-in-law of one of the owners of the property. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Of the property. MR. COMBS: They've only been in there about 5 or 6 years. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I got confused at the hearing. I thought it was the neighbor on the other side that was complaining about, and I couldn't figure out why the neighbor on the other side would complain about that addition was so close to the property line. Now I see, as you said, it was a relative of the person that lives next door. MR. COMBS: It was some sort a relative of a person that lives to the south, I guess you would call it. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Southeast. MR. COMBS: East, closer to the public launching ramp. CHAIRWOMAN: Are there any other comments? Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak in favor or:against the application? Seeing no hands I'll make a motion to close the hearing and reserve decision until later. ` PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION Page 5 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING 8:OOpm Gulmi, Joseph & Susan # 5340 (Carryover from 7/24 for survey and applicant's survey revision) This is a request for a Variance under Section 100-33, based on the Building Department's March 4, 2003 Notice of Disapproval, for a swimming pool, accessory garage, and accessory shed in an area other than the required rear yard.Location: 250 Pine Tree Court, Cutchogue,98-1-7.11 CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? JOSEPH GULMI: Good evening. My name is Joseph Gulmi. CHAIRWOMAN: What can you tell us since we saw you the last time? And it wasn't too long ago. MR. GULMI: No it was about 2 months ago. We submitted to you a survey with the proposed swimming pool, garage, and shed on it. We are requesting a 25' setback. Our property is unique in that it has 2 front yards. And the side and back of our property have joined the wetlands. This is the only area that we have that we can build in. I don't know that there's anything else to add. MEMBER ORLANDO: It looks like you moved the pool from last time? MR. GULMI: Well we had someone come in, and we located it within that 25' setback. I believe there was some problem with the drawings that we submitted at the last hearing. So we had someone come in and work off the survey, show the 25' setback, and where we would be positioning the pool. It's basically a large, open field. The rest of our property is heavily wooded, and has remained in a natural state. This is an open field that we decided we would place the pool in. MEMBER ORLANDO: What is just east of the pool again? Is that the poolhouse, or, on your survey here? MR. GULMI: East of the pool, there is a garage, combination, garage and shed that we are looking to put in, which would house the filtration system for the pool, pool chemicals and garage, which would,we put our cars in. MEMBER ORLANDO: The names are the Walkers, is that correct? The neighbors are the Walkers, is that their... MR. GULMI: Well, the Walkers are one of our neighbors, that's correct. MEMBER ORLANDO: She had a letter in there from last time, is that correct? MR. GULMI: Their concern was that we not place our driveway on Pine Tree Road which wraps around our property. And our property abuts our property in the vicinity of Page 6of14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING their house. They have a tennis court in their front yard, and they were concerned that we would put a driveway in there off that section of pine tree road that would invade their privacy, if you will. MEMBER OLIVA: But you are keeping your driveway just the way it is now? MR. GULMI: There were no plans to change the driveway at all. I'm just assuming that... MEMBER OLIVA: They assume that you might change it. MR. GULMI: Well, I guess, we never had any discussions with them that we were changing it. And in fact, we've located the garage in the vicinity that we've located it in so that we wouldn't have to excavate for a new driveway. We would be able to use the existing driveway and turn off to the left, which is where we would place the garage. That is right at the edge of the open field. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: May I ask a question? CHAIRWOMAN: Certainly,Mr. Goehringer? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Mr. Gulmi, what actually is going to be part of that area in - back of the garage?- I know you just described it to us as accessory containing pool filter and the pool filtration system. MR. GULMI: A changing room, possible a shower, maybe a toilet, I don't know. We're thinking about that now, and checking what the requirements would be to hook up to our existing cesspool. And the garage would be a garage. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Is there anything in this particular project, and I'm zeroing in on the garage, heated on a year round basis? MR. GULMI: We have no intention of heating the garage. It would simply be a garage. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: So all it would have is the utility of both electricity and water? MR. GULMI: Yes. MEMBER ORLANDO: I don't believe we have any kind of drawing of that, do we? MR. GULMI: No. This is a multi-phase project. MEMBER ORLANDO: Before we could approve that garage with all those amenities in it, we'd have to see a plan. We can't approve based on generic hearsay of what may or may not put in it. Page 7 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MR. GULMI: Well, I understand that. Are you saying I need to submit a plan to this board to get approval to get a 25' setback to the pool? MEMBER ORLANDO: Well you were denied for accessory shed in an area other than the rear yard. MR. GULMI: It's all, my property, unfortunately is all front yard except for the side, which runs along the wetlands, and the back,which runs along the wetlands. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I think what Mr. Orlando is saying, Mr. Gulmi, is that, if you gave us a floor plan, which would show us what you intend to build no matter when you want a building, okay? I don't think you'd have a problem with that. MR. GULMI: Except I'd have to hire an architect at this point to prepare a drawing. And I'm not prepared to do that. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Well then you've got to give us some sizes. MR. GULMI: I have. 30x30 on the garage, 36'high. 20x20 on the shed, 16'high. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Okay, so the 30x30 on the garage includes that little area in the back that you are considering to be, because what I'm looking at is, maybe if you come up here, I'll just point it out to you. I see this as being the accessory shed. I don't know what this is back here. MR. GULMI: Oh sorry. We are referring to the area at the very back of what is the garage building. And that's storage area. We would have, rather than going through the garage, I would have doors in the back of the garage where I could store chemicals and other pool paraphernalia. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Okay. So the accessory building would actually be the building where the changing area would be in. MR. GULMI: So I don't have tubs of chlorine and other pool chemicals and the nets and the skimmers and the vacuums. Basically so you're not tripping over those items while you're changing. CHAIRWOMAN: The original plans to the Building Department showed an L-shaped pool. You have since changed? MR. GULMI: Yes we have. We spoke with, this pool is smaller than the one that we had originally envisioned building. The L shaped pool. It's a fiberglass pool that we are looking at. CHAIRWOMAN: Is it elevated? Page 8 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MR. GULMI: No, it's an inground pool. CHAIRWOMAN: And the elevation is about 15'? MR. GULMI: It's a 40xl5 or 16' pool. 16 wide, I think, 16 and a few inches and 40' long. CHAIRWOMAN: What would the board like to do at this point? This is our 2nd hearing on this. MEMBER ORLANDO: I know we had asked for these drawings. He did a better survey, but I can't approve a 30x20 whatever structure that's fictitious right now. It's not even in conception of being drawn. It could change tomorrow,the design. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Well at least a floor plan. MEMBER ORLANDO: Or a floor plan. CHAIRWOMAN: Are we talking about the pool? MEMBER ORLANDO: No the garage with the attachments, the bathroom and the shower. MR. GULMI: I'm looking for a 30x30 building, 36' high. And a 20x20 building 16' high. CHAIRWOMAN: Which one is going to be 36'high? MR. GULMI: The garage, I'm sorry, 16'high. And a 20x20 16'high. CHAIRWOMAN: Back it up... MR. GULMI: Sure, 30x30, 16'high, and 20x20 16'high. CHAIRWOMAN: One story? MR. GULMI: Yes. It's the same height as the house. MEMBER ORLAND0: But you don't know that, you don't have any drawings to look at. ` - CHAIRWOMAN: All you have to do is say that in the decision. 3000, one single story structure,maximum height of 16'. That's all you have to say. Page 9 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That's alright for the garage,Lydia. But we have a problem with the storage building. The problem we have with the storage building is, and I'm not trying to interject anything,we're trying to help you out here,honestly. MR GULMI: I'm here to be helped,then. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Because if you don't show us a floor plan on it, and we don't approve a floor plan,then the Building Department is going to make you come back, sometime in the future. , MR. GULMI: That may be. And I'm prepared to do that, if it gets to that point. What I don't want to is,before I have the pool in,have somebody give me drawings,which are, I have to pay for. What I would like to do, and what we intend on doing, is having the pool installed, then we'll make a decision as to whether or not we're going to go with just a garage, a pool house, or shed, and a garage. And at that point,I thought I had to deal with the Building Department(BD). My understanding was the structures would be approved by dimension and height. And then the BD would deal with the actual floor plan to make sure it was built to code. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Everything we've seen so far in reference to poolhouses, the minute they start getting a little over the size of the pool, equipment goes in,it goes right to us. Because then they become moderate looking cabanas. MR. GULMI: Then, I assume, I'll be back in front of the board with architectural drawings. MEMBER GOEHRINER: We're just telling you that that's probably what's going to happen. MR GULMI: I appreciate that. And I assume nothing less. I just didn't think it was at this point that I needed those drawings. Because quite frankly, I didn't know what I want to do with it. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: We're just trying to save you a step. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay. I think the board has,would really like to take a serious look at the pool, as far as the garage, when you have firm plans of the garage that we can review. Then we can review that at that time. The only other alternative is to leave the hearing open until there is a firm location on the garage clearly showing the dimension, the setbacks to Pine Tree Road, to all,your sideyards. Because these are things that we don't want to end up in a situation where 6 months down the road, we have approved an accessory garage and a shed, and we don't know the location. MR. GULMI: The location is where it appears. This is why I don't understand... Page 10 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING CHAIRWOMAN: We don't know the square foot,we don't know how far it is from Pine Tree Court. We have nothing. And I can tell you that as long as I have been on the board,we have never approved an accessory garage in a front yard without stating specifically how far it is from the street lines. That's the way it is,period. MR. GULMI: The board is prepared to pass on the application to the pool in the front yard,but you're denying the application for the garage. CHAIRWOMAN: We're not going to deny it. You have 2 options at this point. You can go back and submit amended plans that clearly show the setbacks that you are proposing, both to the north and to the west. MR GULMI: This is to scale, this drawing that's in front of you. CHAIRWOMAN: I'm not an engineer, and I'm not going to guesstimate from the 2 scales how far you're setback from Pine Tree Road. We simply don't do that. We can't do that, certainly. MR GULMI: So if the numbers were put in,just so I understand what you are saying, because this is the 2nd time I've appeared here. And I don't want to leave today with the same misunderstanding that I left with the last time. If I had someone draw the numbers in from the west and from the north, on this plan, then the board would be accepting where the location of the garage and the pool shed are on the application? CHAIRWOMAN: Yes, the board would also customarily like to see floor plans of this. In other words, you have an image of what you want, correct? MR GULMI: I haven't any idea what I want there. All I know is that the size of the garage that I want is 3000, and the size of the shed is 20x20. CHAIRWOMAN: You've kind of got our hands tied. Because until you know what you want,then we can't see what we're approving or disapproving. And the board simply is not going to put itself in that kind of position. We've never done in, and we're not going to do it now. MR GULMI: Why don't I do this, assuming that's your final word on that. I hear what you are saying... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I'd like to just add one thing. I remember when you filed your application. One of the things that the staff had recommended to you was that you draw, or have someone draw a rough diagram of what you would like. MR GULMI: And that's what I thought this was. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: If you couldn't agree with Plan A, you could do Plan B, and Plan C, and show the board the options that you are considering. Page 11 of 14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING MR GULMI: That's what I thought... MEMBER ORLANDO: Why don't we give this gentleman his permit for his pool, and he'll come back in 6 months for his shed. CHAIRWOMAN: You're not ready. When you're ready, that's fine. We can wait. But if you would like us to go ahead and act on the pool, that's fine. MR GULMI: I'll take it one step at a time then. And sure, I'd like the application for the 25' setback to have the swimming pool placed in my front yard considered. And as far as the buildings are concerned,I understand you want a plan and you want a location. CHAIRWOMAN: The setback for the pool is 36' MR. GULMI: The setback I'm asking for is 25'. I've shown on this plan, a positioning of the pool with a 25' setback. CHAIRWOMAN: No,we don't have that. We have a setback at 36'. MR. GULMI: Yes. That's where we'd position the pool within that 25' setback. 36 from the property line on the west side. And 30' from the property line on the north side. MEMBER ORLANDO: I'll buy that. MR. GULMI: Rather than bunching it up right onto the 25'mark, we moved it back to see what space we had. But the setback I'm asking for is a 25'setback. MEMBER ORLANDO: But you did set it up with a 36... MR. GULMI: Yes I did. MEMBER OLIVA: And you could live with that? MR GULMI: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Then we are going to act on the plan virtually in front of us. MEMBER ORLANDO: We just had a recent application in Nassau Point where it was 25' and we denied it. So 36 is the winning number. MR. GULMI: If you came out and looked at the property, and I know many of the board members have, I am tucked away in the back woods. My neighbors on the west side have less than a 50' setback from the road for the construction of a 2 story house. The Walkers,who are on the north side,have a tennis court in their front yard,which is less also than the 25' setback. I find it difficult to understand what the concern of the board is Page 12of14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC BEARING if they gave me a 25'setback. I'm perfectly happy if this engineer that came out and made this drawing is able to sit the pool where he places it on the drawing. But if it needs to be moved 4 or 5', does that mean that I have to then come back to the board? Well, okay. Then I guess that's what it means. It's your logic,not mine. So I'm stuck with it. I'd like the hearing, at least,to close on the swimming pool. And if it works out when they are constructing it that I need the 25'setback, I guess I'll have to come in front of you again. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak in favor or against the application? SUSAN BRAVER: I'm Susan Braver, I'm the other half. The garage is going where it's at. Period. And it's going to be there, exactly where you have it. But the question I have is can I keep this process open, or do I have to submit a whole new thing in order to, suppose I leave it exactly the way you have it, exactly the way it looks? Suppose I don't even have a shed, I just have a garage. Can I just come back in, or do I have to start this whole process all over again? MEMBER ORLANDO: For the garage? MS.BRAVER: Yes. MEMBER ORLANDO: Because we're not approving your garage. MS. BRAVER: I understand that. MEMBER OLIVA: So you'd have to start it all over again. MS. BRAVER: Even if it's exactly what it is now. MEMBER ORLANDO: You'd submit a new application with drawings, and setbacks. Because you'll submit it to the BD,they'll deny it because it's in the front yard. And it will come to us. MS. BRAVER: So even if it's exactly where it is on your plans,right now with the exact same setbacks they have now? CHAIRWOMAN: Show it to us now. MS. BRAVER: You need the numbers of the property line to where the garage is. CHAIRWOMAN: And the floor plan. We need to see what we are approving. And the exact location of what it is. If you don't know what that is,we can... MEMBER ORLANDO: Give you the pool, and you can come back when you are ready. Page 13of14 10-9-03 SPECIAL MEETING—PUBLIC HEARING CHAIRWOMAN: The other option is we can leave this hearing open,recess it without a date until you make up your mind. MS. BRAVER: Can I just leave it open because all we have to do is come back in with a floor plan for that building that's the garage, and the setbacks from the property line. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Then she still has to re-advertise. CHAIRWOMAN: Let me give it to you very clearly. We want to see the exact location of all of the proposed structures. We want to see the setbacks to all of the sideyards. We want to see floorplans of all of the proposed structures. When you have that information, you will not have to go through a whole application process because what we will do tonight is recess without a date. Which means that it will have to be re-advertised when that information has been provided. But you will not have to,unless there's additional variances that you are seeking,it will not entail a whole new application. BOARD MEMBER KOWALSKI: There are other steps that need to be taken. We have to repost the sign and re-do the certified mailings again to the neighbors. But that would be it. CHAIRWOMAN: You will not have to pay an additional application fee, etc. MS. BRAVER: Then you would just set it up for whatever date you have available at that point in time? CHAIRWOMAN: Correct. MR. GULMI: What am I going to do,tell them I don't like the rule? MS. BRAVER: You will leave the whole application open? CHAIRWOMAN: You will hear exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to make a motion to recess the application 5340 without a date. Page 14 of 14