HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-09/09/2002 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS h�O�Qs �COGy p,0. Box 1179
JERILYN B.WOODHOUSE
Chair o= Jl► Town Hall, 53095 State Route 25
y Southold, New York 11971-0959 .
RICHARD CAGGIANO • Telephone (631) 765-1938
WILLIAM J.CREMERS G Fax(631) 765-3136
KENNETH L. DS
MARTIN H.SIDOR �Ol `1►aO
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
September 9, 2002
6:00 p.m.
Present were: Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
Richard Caggiano, Member
William J. Cremers, Member
Kenneth L. Edwards, Member
Martin H. Sidor, Member
Mark Terry, Sr. Environmental Planner
Scott Hughes, Sr. Environmental Planner
Victor L'Eplattenier, Senior Planner
Carol Kalin, Secretary
Chairman Orlowski: Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order. The first order of
business is for the Board to set Monday, October 7, 2002, at 6:00 p.m. at the Southold
Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next regular Planning
Board Meeting.
Mr. Caggiano: So move.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
********************
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Orlowski: 6:00 p.m. - Hart's Hardware - This proposed site plan is for a
1000 sq. ft. addition to an existing hardware store. The property is located on SR 251 95'
west of Jockey Creek Drive in Southold. SCTM#1000-70-5-6.2
Southold Town Planning Board Page Two September 9, 2002
I will ask if there are any comments on this site plan?
Patricia Moore, Esq.: I am here, if there are any questions. I have the elevations.
Everything is ready but, unfortunately, the ARC could not meet until Wednesday so, we
are scheduled to be there for a Wednesday meeting. So, this will have to remain open, I
guess, until we get their comments which we hope will finish it. The DOT -we have the
approval by way of a letter. We are in the process of getting the bond to comply with the
DOT requirements of the insurance and the bond. East End Insurance will be getting
the bond. It was supposed to be today but it hasn't come yet. So that, too, will be
forwarded on - everything is ready; the package is done. I am just waiting for the bond.
Chairman Orlowski: O.K. Any other comments on this site plan?
Patricia Moore, Esq.: Did you want to look at the elevations? If you want, I have them
here. If not, then -
Chairman Orlowski: No, Pat, you'll do fine at the Architectural Review, I am sure. We
will wait for their report. Hearing no further comments, any questions from the Board?
Hearing none, I will make a motion to hold this hearing open.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in
favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Chairman Orlowski: 6:05 p.m. -Aliano. Nicholas -These amendments modify the
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, dated March 31, 1993, as they pertain to
Lots 7 & 8 of this approved subdivision. These amendments affect the proposed
Grace's Place Nursery School common curb cut requirement on CR 48, and the
relocation of the common driveway which provides access to the subdivision lots. The
subdivision is located on CR 48 in Peconic. SCTM#1000-74-4-(4.1-4.6)
Are there any questions on these amendments, modifying these amendments?
John Skabry: Chairman Orlowski and Members, thank you very much for giving me the
opportunity to speak to you tonight. Let me preface this by saying that, once again,
reiterating there is absolutely no need for this project in this Town. Already we have 52
openings for child care in this Town and, at a sliding scale, migrant farm worker's
children would have to pay nothing for that service. This is nothing but greed we're
talking out—to build something and to buy something. The driveway that we're talking
about ...(inaudible tape)which exists now on paper— and, stop me if I'm wrong -was
Southold Town Planninq Board Page Three September 9, 2002
sold to the Town. The building rights were sold when they sold it for Four Hundred
Thousand Dollars in Development Rights to the land so the property cannot be
developed. It can only be farmland. ...(inaudible tape) to Peconic Land Trust
...(inaudible tape) the figure, but it's close to One Million Dollars. That's One Million
Four Hundred Thousand Dollars for the property which can only be farmed on.
...(inaudible tape) to put the driveway six hundred feet closer to the intersection which
...(inaudible tape) people explained at the meeting this winter, is a dangerous
intersection right now. I have a neighbor down the street who is disabled. She makes
that turn - that right turn -to pick her kids up at events at school. When she wants to
make a left off Henry's Lane onto 48, she makes a right hand turn. She is not here
tonight. She couldn't stand up to speak at this microphone if she wanted to. She makes
the right turn, proceeds west on 48 to the first turnaround, which would be facing the
new driveway- I am sorry - the existing driveway- and then makes a u-turn to go east
on 48. If you allow ...(tape inaudible) commercial vehicles and cars going into Grace's
Place ...(tape inaudible) 150'from Henry's Lane ...(tape inaudible)we all know where it
is — it's the only gas station from Riverhead to Peconic ...(tape inaudible).
Some solutions: Move to another area where a commercial operation is viable. That's
why we have zoning; that's why we have Agricultural Districts. As far as the property
.being landlocked, I believe that it's landlocked right now. There is no driveway for it. Am
I right or wrong, Ben?
Chairman Orlowski: Well, the is access over the Aliano property. That's what these
amendments are changing7right now.
Mr. Skabry: All these Development Rights were sold to the Town —
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Skabry: Including the driveway?
Chairman Orlowski: The driveway goes with it but Mr. Aliano is changing that right now
to amend those covenants, allowing access to the last two lots - off the last two lots -to
the last two lots.
John Skabry: So the lot is landlocked now ...(inaudible) where the Development Rights
have been sold, right?
Chairman Orlowski: This won't be on that. This will be on those two lots that are left.
John Skabry: I am talking about the existing subdivision driveway is six hundred feet to
the west.
Chairman Orlowski: Right.
Mr. Skabry: And it no longer exists because it can't be built on.
2�2D
Southold Town Planning Board Page Four September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: Well, that driveway will exist for the other six lots. That driveway is
still there, but those six lots - you are right - have been purchased through the Town and
I don't know how that was done but it has nothing to do with this Board. O.K.?We are
just looking at two lots there now and this amendment change, changes the access
giving right of access to Route 48 for lots, I believe, it is Lots 7 & 8. This is an
amendment change. This has also been reviewed by our Consultant and approved by
our Consultant and it's my understanding they have also gotten permission from the
County for the curb cut and that is already stamped and put on the map.
John Skabry: Are they looking at other access points for this project? Have they come
to you with any, Victor, or anybody on the Board? Have they proposed any other access
to the project?
Chairman Orlowski: There's not many other places you can go.
John Skabry: There certainly are. I've walked the whole area, I have lived there for
thirty-two years. I know how to get around the back of Peconic. Presently, Morris'
Cesspool Service - he is in the back of Brower's (sp?) barn —o.k. - and he has access
from Peconic Lane. He is less than 150' from their property line. All they have to do is
extend that LIRR right-of-way where the old section used to be and the siding to the
railroad —o.k. - right along the railroad tracks, you can drive on a public right-of-way
from Peconic Lane west to 150' of their property line. There'slnothing but ...(tape
inaudible) in there right now ...(tape inaudible) weeds. All th@t would have to be done is
clear it out. That would put all the traffic out on Peconic LanEZ, which is shortly going to
have a traffic light. I hope you're not going to approve this project in the first place. You
see, I don't even think they've given much thought about where it's going to be ...(tape
inaudible) driveway or anything. ...(tape inaudible) thirty-two years and I'm the guy
who's going to have to try to get out on that corner after that driveway is in place.
The second choice would be Horton's Lane which is another road that is marked right
adjacent just to the east of the Amoco Gas Station. Paul's Lane goes south from 48 and
it's beyond Henry's Lane intersection and it meets up with that right-of-way that I'm
talking about. ...(tape inaudible) right-of-way through that property ...(tape inaudible)
Henry's Lane intersection.
Chairman Orlowski: Well, this is one thing you have to understand. They have gotten
the use for what they have applied for. They're coming in. They've gotten the use to
access onto County Road 48 from the County. So they can do that. And they have it.
Our Consultant has reviewed it and our Traffic Consultant has reviewed it and he said
there isn't a problem. There's not much else left for us to do. You can't say that now
you'd rather we come from the Railroad side. They've gotten their approvals and their
permits and everything they need.
Unidentified Speaker: So Benny, in other words, this is a done deal?
Chairman Orlowski: All I'm saying is that they've gotten all the approvals they need and
this is all we can do. You've got to understand that this Board —you have the right to do
Southold Town Planning Board Page Five September 9, 2002
certain things with your land. This Board is here to approve the site plan. The book that
we read has certain elements in the site plan and they've met all of those elements,
including the curb cut from the County which they now have. They have the Health
Department approval. The use was granted. This Board did not grant that use but we
have to look at it with that use on it and that's it. We can't do anything else here.
John Skabry: So, the curb cut is the only thing they needed from the County and then
the Planning Board has to approve their site plan?
Chairman Orlowski: Well, they're allowed that use so, yes, I mean —you know—we
can't arbitrarily say that just because we may not like it, you know.
Joe Betty: I've lived on Henry's Lane for twenty-seven years and I'm against Grace's
Place. Do you people realize what that corner is like? Does anybody go over there
between 7:30 and 8:00 in the morning and 4:30 and 5:00 at night with that gas station
the way it is? Do you know what it's like—you have two signs on either side of those
entrances —"Do Not Enter". Most of these people go in heading west in the eastbound
lane to get into that station and vice versa on the other one. How there hasn't been any
accidents is beyond me. It's a bad area and you're going to go widen that. You're going
to have accidents there. You guys are going to have to sleep with this. It's going to
happen, as sure as I'm standing here— it's going to happen because you've got a
driveway there from the gas station; you're going to put another one right along side of
it. These people, they don't give a damn. They're going to go head east in that
westbound lane. They're doing it constantly. I've seen so many close calls, it's pathetic.
dread just getting off my damn road and you guys, you're just going to make it worse.
What's going on with this Town?
Chairman Orlowski: Again, you know, we aren't the Traffic Experts. We have a
Consultant that's a Traffic Expert.
Joe Betty: Well, who's the Consultant?
Chairman Orlowski: The County- it's the County's road. The County has no problem
with it and it's their road.
Joe Betty: How can that be?
Chairman Orlowski: They granted it. Again, you're actually talking to the wrong Board.
Joe Betty: Unless they change that median where they widened it, maybe it will work
out different, but it's not. When you've got people heading westbound in the eastbound
lane to get into those driveways, you're going to have head-ons. As sure as I'm standing
here, it's going to happen. God, I wish you guys would wake up.
Chairman Orlowski: Again, it's not us. The County granted it.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Six September 9, 2002
Joe Betty: It's always somebody putting the blame on somebody else. This is the Town.
Why can't you say no, we can't put it there— like Mr. Skabry just explained. You've got
two other outlets—you've got that back road and you've got the road alongside the gas
station that they could use. Why the hell do you go put it where you've got a bad spot in
the first place. It's beyond me. I don't understand you people's thinking. Can't you tell
the County look, you're making a mistake. Are you going to wait until somebody gets
killed? What do they got—tombstone mentality? Let some people get killed, then later
on we'll change it. We'll put the driveway somewhere else. Why? Wake up. It's going to
happen. I swear to God as sure as I'm standing here, you're going to have bad
accidents between the buses that are going to go in there and the people who are
dropping off kids and picking them up. It's going to happen. I know it is. I'm sorry to say
about it, as sure as I'm standing here, you're going to have more accidents there
because you just widen a bad area where you've got two signs there that say "Do Not
Enter" and they don't give a damn. They drive westbound in an eastbound lane. I'm
sorry to say, it's going to happen.
Chairman Orlowski: Any other comments?
John Bokina: I live on Henry's Lane across the street from the Amoco Gas Station.
Everything that was said at all these previous meetings, from all of our
Peconic residents, didn't matter. This is a done deal. We all know it. We were against
Grace's Nursery School from the start. I don't know who was the bird brain that even
1/ thought of something like this for these kids, migrant people, which our kids cannot go
to this school. Are we going to pay—our taxes —going to pay for this? Who is going to
pay for the care of this place? You know, this place has got to run just like this place—
got to be mowed, got to be swept, cleaned. I don't know what these people are thinking
of. I'm sure that all of you Planning Board Members have nothing to do with this but I'm
sure all of you would not like to plunk this thing in back of your yard. We elect public
officials to help our Town out. Now, here we are, fighting amongst you, the ZBA—
everybody—our Councilmen — all of them. I called them all up about this deal. Here we
are. Fighting. Don't forget. It's going to be a memory. But no, now we want to move the
driveway closer to the gas station. Another big problem. You know this road as well as I
do. ...(tape inaudible) on a Sunday or a Saturday and come into that gas station —go
there early in the morning and see those fellas on their bicycles. Have you ever been in
...(inaudible)? Do yourself a favor—take a ride over there at the 7-11. At every corner,
you see what's happening.
Mr. Chairman, this is not a smart situation — a smart idea for everybody. And I'm serious
about that. This is going to bite somebody in the butt. Really. When this thing gets all
said and done, this is going to be a big issue for this whole Town. Remember that. This
is going to cause a lot of problems and people are going to get hurt. The bottom line is —
we do not want this day care center at all. ...(inaudible) the last day it's open space.
That's what we want this for. Take the grant and put it towards our school taxes so our
taxes go down. Our taxes are definitely going to go up on this. There's no ifs, ands, and
buts about this.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Seven September 9, 2002
Mr. Chairman and Board Members, it would be appreciated if you people would reject
this Grace's Place Nursery School and put the money to good use for our taxpayers.
Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker: I live on Henry's Lane. I'm concerned about this situation. I'm
opposed to it from the beginning.
Chairman Orlowski: Can we have your name for the record, please?
Lori Kalinke: Members of the Board, I would like you to all be aware of how the use of
this intersection of this location of the proposed new driveway site, 600' next to the gas
station, closer to Henry's Lane will be: 1) Due to Safety. Myself and my six and a half
year old son did a survey of cars that have entered into this gas station -to the "Do Not
Enter'—where it says "Do Not Enter" in a forty minute time zone. Six motorcycles and
thirty-five cars have entered into this illegal side saying "Do Not Enter". Does anyone
other than myself and my son taken the time to do the count on a busy day? This is a
danger for cars exiting the gas station -for cars coming out of the gas station —for
residents trying to pull out of Henry's Lane. There are days when I wait fifteen minutes
at the end of my corner trying to pull out and I can't get across. I have to wait and wait.
And when the ferry traffic comes through, it's even worse. Now, I did the survey on a
Sunday afternoon at 3:30 in the afternoon. The person that did this proposal —when did
they do this? Did they do its- n the middle of the afternoon? Did they do it during the day?
When did they do it? Did they actually stand there and count the amount of cars like I
did? My son and I did. V1 e counted all these cars that went into the "Do Not Enter" and I
do not believe it. And him, a six and a half year old, has to see this happening. I'd just
like you to think twice about it again. It's just such a danger and I was opposed from the
beginning and I'm opposed even more due to this where the exit and entrance is going
to be. Place take the time to put a counter in the road, even if you have to. Count how
many vehicles do use this and enter wrong and right and see what you come up with.
Maybe then you'll have a solution that like what Mr. Skabry had said entering into a
different place — I mean, there was an accident on Peconic Lane -someone who lives
on our street. His wife was killed on Peconic Lane. Is this what we need —someone to
be killed before something can be done about this? It's not a good thing.
Also, I just want to let you know again that I'm opposed to this from the beginning
because myself cannot use this type of facility. It's only for immigrant farm workers and
their families and I'm not able to use this facility. I have to find child care elsewhere.
Maybe it would be if you plan on building something like this, have it for everyone so
that the whole Town could use the facility like that and then I wouldn't mind having my
tax dollars going to something like this. It's just - I mean you're forcing me out of this
Town. I don't even want to live here any more because this is a disgrace and that's all I
have to say. Thank you.
Chairman Orlowski: Thank you. Any other comments?
Gary Rempel: Good evening, Board Members. Myself and everybody that's speaking
here is going to have to deal with this danger zone every day. I know I've been to
Southold Town Planning Board Page Eight September 9, 2002
different Town meetings in the last several months and I see at times that they'll
entertain to go look at bluffs or other sites. I'm just wondering — have any of you actually
went down there, spent a half hour of your time and looked at this danger zone? You're
going to be voting on it. I mean you'll want to have a crystal clear view. Not just
something on paper. Have you? Have you taken that time?
Mr. Orlowski: I've been there. I think the rest of the whole Board is familiar with the area
of the spot. We have looked at it.
Mr. Rempel: What do you think?
Chairman Orlowski: What do I think?
Mr. Rempel: Yes, just your opinion.
Chairman Orlowski: Traffic is a problem everywhere in this Town. I can't make those
decisions because I'm not a Traffic Expert. (simultaneous discussion)
Mr. Rempel: If they had this Traffic Expert— I know if you go to different areas and I see
— I don't know the exact terminology they call it but it's a traffic counter. I live —you
know, I've been there the last month. This decision was made since we met last month.
I didn't see nothing down there. Wouldn't that at least make�sense if they put that thing
down there by that island, you would see how many people; are making those turns. If
you had that thing down there, you've seen all these people making these illegal turns,
how could you turn around and justify something like that?
Chairman Orlowski: Illegal turns is a police issue. I mean, that's illegal. You keep saying
that. That's a police issue.
Unidentified Speaker: Nobody gives them tickets. You never see any cops there. In fact,
the cops do the same thing. They go through the sign.
Chairman Orlowski: Well, they can't do that. (simultaneous discussion) One at a time.
Gary Rempel: But you don't want to add to the situation and, by doing that, that's what
you're doing. You're just flaming it—flaming the fire. When the decision was made, I'm
just curious because I know Route 48 has become part of the Scenic Byways. Now, I _
know this proposed curb cut certainly isn't going to unlock the world of scenic beauty. If
anything, you're going to make it look like up island. More congestion, more traffic and
more accidents. So, I don't know how that decision was made.
Now, the Aliano Subdivision was designed to have a driveway access in a much less
conspicuous place, much further west where it was safe from the intersection, safe from
the gas station and safe from Henry's Lane. So why is that conception being changed?
Why are you taking this thing and putting it into an unsafe situation?
Southold Town Planning Board Page Nine September 9, 2002
At Grace's Place inception, they applied for a Special Exception. The public was
provided with a site plan to examine before the meeting, the Board of Appeals used
these plans to render their vote for the decision. The plans did not show a driveway that
would be placed across from my home with street lamps on all hours and lights and
busses and cars shining in my bedroom. Changing the curb cut changes the entire
package —changes the safety issue. It changes the conception. Changes everything.
This is not what the public was shown and this is not what the Board of Appeals voted
on. So, the curb cut really should stay the same. The people of the community feel that
the Board of Appeals ...(inaudible) Grace's Place to violate the Town Code that says a
school cannot be built close to a gas station. ...(inaudible) that the Planning Board
...(unintelligible) further movement of the driveway that puts busses with young school
children closer to an extremely dangerous condition.
I appreciate the Board listening to our comments over the last several months, but, once
again, we, the community will have to deal with this issue—this dangerous issue every
day. We would hope that the Planning Board would take our thoughts and comments
into consideration and will take the time to meet as a group at the site after this meeting
tonight and the decision will be held open for a future date. Thank yolu.
Paula Daniels: Good evening. Hello, Chairman and Board. I'm a little new to this
community. I moved here from a place that I find is a little bit like this. I moved here from
Hawaii and Hawaii was like our area— beautiful and growing very quickly. We had a lot
of problems like this with traffic and new lots and so forth and we left that area because /
of what had happened to the islands. I'm here tonight to speak— I live off of Henry's on
a very small road called Sound View Avenue West and I did not do the scientific survey
that my neighbor did but, on the way over here, I counted the number of directions that
go through the island. Presently, there are ...(inaudible) directions of traffic all heading
through a very small island that one car will fit through —two if you do it correctly. When
you add this driveway, you're now going to have ten different directions of cars, all
heading at each other at exactly the same time. Now, I know you're supposed to use
your turn signals and I usually do but, a lot of the people coming through don't and so,
you don't know really which way they're going. You've got ten directions and you're
guessing and hoping which way they're going. I do respect that you had an expert study
this. I might wonder how much time you studied this. It's been mentioned that there
might be a traffic light on Peconic Lane. I think that people will, unfortunately, use this
little island as a cut-through to save whatever three seconds they think they're going to
save on the light. So, you can add maybe twelve directions of traffic. I understand your
constraints of the Board and their rules and their jurisdiction but, I wanted to speak to
this. My husband also agrees. He's at work on Shelter Island tonight and couldn't make
it. I thank you for listening to me.
Chairman Orlowski: Thank you. Anyone else?
Val Pust: I live on Route 48, very close to the intersection that they're talking about and,
over the years, I've seen so many accidents on Peconic Lane and Route 48. I've called
the fire department and police myself many times. You're just making this thing worse
than it is now. We've had — actually I'm getting tired of having the police helicopter land
o�
Southold Town Planning Board Page Ten September 9, 2002
in front of my house to pick up the injured people. They blow everything; they destroy
everything with that wind but, that's beside the point. Why are you doing this in a nice
community? You're going to turn it into a zoo. Is there any other way, as Skabry says, to
go out the back way? There are other ways to get out of this thing and you people have
to give permission somewhere. Why don't you just stop and anything they want in the
way of variances,just don't give them anything. Just don't let them — put up your
objections to these things. It's ridiculous. I'm fed up. I'm almost ready to move out of this
area myself. It's turning into a —a beautiful little community, Peconic— and now it's
turning into a little industrial park. You guys should do something to stop all of this.
...(inaudible) buying all of this property and the scenic zones are disappearing — selling
us down the river. That's all I've got to say.
George Viola: I live on Henry's Lane. I remember at the last meeting that there was a
request from our group to see whether the Zoning Board of Appeals would hear—and I
think that the Board was going to ask the Town Attorney whether that was possible. I
don't know what happened with that.
Chairman Orlowski: Well, the question was —
Victor L'Eplattenier: He said that it wasn't necessary to go back.
George Viola: It wasn't necessary. O.K. I still stand opposed to this and, basically, that's
all I have to say. Thank you.
Margaret Skabr :: I live on Henry's Lane. I don't have anything written down. You don't
really want to hear what I'm thinking right now so I'm going to try to keep it a little nicer
than what I'm feeling.
Every time we come to Town Hall about anything, we have to hear about it's not that
person's fault, it was the one before us. It takes a lot for us to come down here. We
know we can be misquoted, if we come down very often about the same thing. We're
coming down here because we live here; we care about here and we're not making a
penny off of this. The more people that you can run out of this Town by allowing the
things that you are doing, the more money for the real estate people— and we know
who they are — make. We don't get much out of it. We lose our families; we lose our
friends all the time to the garbage that goes on in this Town. We come here to you
because the Zoning Board of Appeals held a meeting at 11:00 at night the first time
without notifying everybody they were supposed to. That was not the way it was
supposed to be done. Being that they did it that way, they should have, when it came to
you and that was brought to your attention, they should have been made to start from
Square One with everybody notified that should have been notified but, it wasn't done.
You went back and asked them if they thought maybe it wasn't such a great idea to
build a school next to a gas station and highway and railroad tracks. They said sure, it's
a great idea and you're powerless. We're told you're powerless to do anything. Mr.
Goehringer- or whatever his name is — it's just my opinion, I don't need a lawsuit or
anything. This is my opinion — Mr. Goehringer is like Adolph Hitler. He makes the rules
and everybody suffers. There are people in this Town who have had legitimate things
l
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Southold Town Planning Board Page Eleven September 9, 2002
come up before the Zoning Board and been put off for years. If they are lucky, only
once. This thing — I'm not quite sure how long it took from the time Mr. Murphy
presented it until now. I'm not clear on dates but I know this fast tracked. Your
Consultant should be ashamed of himself for saying that he studied that curb cut and it's
fine; that the six year old and his mommy can count cars and realize it's not fine. The
Consultant should apologize to every citizen of this Town for taking a paycheck. I don't
know why we have so many Boards if only one calls the shots. The next thing, I guess,
it goes to the Building Department and they don't even hold meetings like this where we
can be told we're really sorry but we have to shove it to you.
When Mr. Betty said you're going to have to sleep with what you do, I feel bad, in a way,
for you because I know you're people that live here and you're good people and you
want to do the best you can but you're not doing enough. You're not doing anything.
Who has got the chutzpah in this Town to turn around to the Zoning Board and say
that's not going to fly anymore. You can't do this. You can't stick kids in a school next to
a gas station, next to a four-lane highway, next to the railroad tracks. The supreme part
is, it's called Grace's Place. It's agri-business they call it. We all care about what goes
on with the farmers. We know how hard it is out here for the farmers. And I'm very sorry;
I don't think growing kids to go out and pick your grapes should be considered agri-
business and that's exactly what you're doing. You're taking the poorest of the people
who are not citizens, if when checked, and every time they have a little citizen born in
this country, we provide school for it so their parents can continue to give us the cheap
labor that the vineyards/'and the fat cats use in order to make their profits. I can't fund
any Republican Party dinners, Democratic Party dinners or any other party dinners. I
wouldn't because I don't think that's right. I think a person should be in if they're honest
and they're going to do what they know the people of the Town want. Not this privilege
and this Board didn't do it. It wasn't the one that started the ball rolling but you could
have kept sending it back. We were told at the beginning by the person who presented
this disgrace of Grace's, the first time, that there was a time constraint. ...(tape
inaudible) took our money that was funded to our Town to pay for people who don't live
in our Town to use, ...(tape inaudible) property around a real estate agent to purchase
the property and my tax dollars are going to build for other people from other towns to
come here and tell the people of my Town on that highway— I live three houses away
from it— I hear the plastic thuds of the cheaply made cars these days. It's not the metal
like you used to hear and the screeching brakes, thanks to anti-lock. You hear it time
after time after time. I don't know where that Consultant came from. He should be
ashamed of himself. All of this money that's going into this is tax money. All of the time
that we're having to spend down here ...(inaudible tape) anything out of it ...(inaudible
tape) special preference should have been given to someone who held a public office, it
was, in my opinion, go get this ball rolling.
In the years that we've lived here, Southold has been really proud of itself. Southold was
above so many other things, little things. Well, guess what? We were above the other
places; we were above Greenport and all of the problems that they have with their
drugs. I was told by the Principal and the Superintendent one time, Southold kids
couldn't get head lice because they were Southold students. Mattituck could get them;
Greenport could get them. Our kids couldn't get them. That's the attitude that went
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twelve September 9, 2002
around in Southold but guess what? The Riverhead kids got the head lice; the
Greenport kids got the head lice. Greenport is moving up. Riverhead was intolerant
enough to stop Grace's Disgrace. ...(inaudible tape) in their town. ...(inaudible tape)the
opportunity to move in with another church and share the facilities and they wouldn't do
it because they could only do it if they build a new building. So, they come out here. I
don't know how somebody can get the ear of a Zoning Board (inaudible tape) playing
field ...(inaudible tape) of the town, but it happened and it's been steamrolled ever since
and we've been apologized to ever since. That's not enough. Who's got the chutzpah to
go over there to the Zoning Board to say take it back; make sure the first notifications
were done correctly and, if you run out of time, tough nougies. If you don't have the
chutzpah, let me know. You know, the thing that everybody is afraid of in this Town is
lawsuits. If you mess around with Grace's Disgrace, you're going to be sued by them. If
you turn it Town, you're going to be sued; if the Zoning Board turns it down, they're
going to be sued. Well, guess what? You're going to get sued somewhere. Do you want
to be sued by an outside interest or do you want to be sued by the people you go to
church with, your kids go to school with, you march in parades with? Who are you
representing? Who is that Zoning Board representing? You think of the people you've
driven out of this Town by not getting control of that Zoning Board of Appeals; it's
somebody pulling the rings up short. You're going to tell me at the end of this it's a done
deal. You explain to me how my tax money again goes to buy ...(tape inaudible) lots
with those roads but now it's agricultural so those roads shouldn't count. But Mr. Aliano
...(tape disturbance) put another curb cut in. Somebody's grit to have some chutzpah
around here. Mr. Murphy appears to be the only one (tap change — Mrs. Skabry chose
to continue speaking while the tape change took place.)7..More are going up for sale if
this goes through. More money for the real estates. More disgrace for our Town. You
drive our young people out with your taxes already and you let garbage happen. I never
thought I would think that Riverhead was better than Southold but they've got a little
more going. They've got some chutzpah.
I'm really sorry for the position you're in but, you've got no idea the position we're in. Do
something about it. Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker: I moved out here about thirty years ago —
Chairman Orlowski: I need to get your name again.
Joe Betty: I moved out here about thirty-five years ago. It was potato farms, cauliflower.
Little by little, it seems, the vineyards moved in. More and more, you see the high-priced
houses go up. Now, you've got the high-powered realtors that are over here now. Now,
I'm not the only one that feels this way. From everybody that I talked to, I get the same
answers. Well, maybe it's different— no, it's not. I can see. What it is now is the
vineyards with their money, the high-powered realtors who are pulling the strings and
you've got individuals like that who are past Town Supervisors getting away with a lot of
it. People are seeing this; they're not that dumb. Believe me. More and more, the money
is moving out here. The money is pulling the strings and you know the same old saying
— money talks but what walks and that's what's going on in this Town. God, I hope you
guys wake up.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirteen September 9, 2002
Lori Kalinke: I just wanted to say again — I just was a little bit confused. I guess you
have determined, except for this curb cut, decided —this is the first that I'm hearing of it
but, I would really like to know still: is this a nursery school or is this a day care center
because, we as the citizens here, still have not been explained to what exactly is going
to.be located here— if it is going to be a day care or if it is a nursery school because
they are, as we have brought up at prior meetings, two different issues. So, I would still
like to know, myself, maybe also some of the other answers that we have not still known
that were brought up— issues that we brought up — building next to the gas station. I
guess there's no longer an issue, having a school located there. Being located on Route
48, also being located next to a gas station, behind the railroad tracks. Maybe I should
just quit my job tomorrow and go work on a farm and I can have day care for my
children. Maybe that's a great idea. This is where you're going with this. It's just a center
that we don't need here because you have other centers located in the same town that
has fifty-two available slots that these children can go to. So, why can't they go to this
center instead? Why do they have to have this million dollar project built right here in
Peconic and ruin our beautiful acreage that we're trying to preserve? It's a disgrace; it
really is and I just want to say again that I'm opposed to it and I'm mostly appalled
because I can't use the center. You don't want to have segregation going on in this
community but you're calling for it. I can't use the center. It's only going to be for these
people that are low income. Well, guess what? I'm low income, too, but I still can't use
the center. I have to travel west to have a job and this is where my children go —up
west with me because I can't afford day care out here. Maybe if I was low income like
these people, I would have day care out here. But the assessors out here have smarts.
Riverhead was smart enough to deny it. Why can't we? Why can't we look at other 1.
issues. There were other issues from the beginning. I cannot believe that now you're
coming down to just deciding that it's going to be an issue because of a curb cut. What
about the community? What about the petitions that we brought to you. None of that
matters. I did a petition. We brought the petition to you. There were many people
opposed to it and I know if we brought it to the public knowledge, I'm sure there would
be more than enough citizens in this Town who would be opposed all the way from
Jamesport out to Orient that do not want this center here. Like I said, I'm just opposed to
it and I wish you would reconsider. Thank you.
Chairman Orlowski: To answer your question, it is a nursery school and the gas station
issue was taken off the table because a gas station cannot build next to a school but it
doesn't prohibit a school from building next to a gas station.
Gary Rempel: A nursery school is under three hours. A day care is over three. That's a
New York State Law. So, this is going to be open for more than three hours so it is a
day care center. You might elect to label it—you know, it's like labeling something an
apple but, if it's an orange, it's an orange. So, there is an issue there — it is a day care
center, not a nursery school. There is no Special Exception for a day care center.
Out of curiosity, explain to me the mechanisms of how this works. Curb cut, Department
of Highway. How does that work? Do they send you something?
Chairman Orlowski: No.
230
Southold Town Planning Board Page Fourteen September 9, 2002
Gary Rempel: How does that go?
Chairman Orlowski: They make a separate application to the County Department of
Transportation, then they review it and send their engineers out or whatever they do but
they come back and they get a map stamped with a curb cut on it. It's their role. To have
access to any property, to have access to any commercial property, they have to get it
from the Town, the County or the State.
Gary Rempel: It's amazing how they sent somebody out there and you can have all
these people come up there that live there and tell you that it's a real issue and you
have somebody that—almost, in my opinion - rubber-stamped a report and is telling you
that it's o.k. It's like you're standing there and somebody's beating somebody over the
head and they're telling you it's o.k. It's not—somebody's getting beat over the head
and, in this case, it's us getting beat over the head with this thing. Now, you said you
had one of your experts - somebody on your end - review it?
Chairman Orlowski: Our Consultant and his traffic person reviewed it.
Gary Rempel: O.K. Just within the last month?
Chairman Orlowski: Well, it's in the file, yes. It was done after the —
Gary Rempel: Can I ask, is it all right to ask—did you experience the same situation
that all of us did when you see what's going on with the traffic or didn't you — I don't
know.
Chairman Orlowski: He's not the expert (Mr. Rempel thought Senior Planner Victor
L'Eplattenier was the Traffic Expert.) I'm not the expert.
Gary Rempel: Oh, I thought he was the expert. Oh, o.k.
Victor L'Eplattenier: If I just- could I just explain?
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Victor L'Eplattenier: We have consultants who look at environmental stuff, including
traffic. We inquired, after the last hearing, what the impact would be about moving the
driveway to line up with the proposed nursery school and the answer was that there
would be no new traffic impacts because of that move. In fact, there would probably be
less because the subdivision had eight lots; now six of them are never going to be
developed so the total potential traffic impact would be diminished and the fact that you
move it to line up with the school did not create any new hazard. That was their report.
Gary Rempel: I thought I read in the papers that there was actually a higher impact due
to Grace's Place than the subdivisions — higher traffic impact. Do you have a copy of it?
Is it possible to read part of it? I mean, we're here. Just to satisfy us, what the person
Southold Town Planning Board Page Fifteen September 9, 2002
said. You're telling us no, but this is like the man behind the curtain. We're just being
told no and come in and read it.
Chairman Orlowski: It's in the file. I mean, it's been there.
Gary Rempel: Yes, I just haven't had time to get down there. Like I say, we have other
things in our lives and stuff. So, is it possible? Could you? Would you? No or—
Chairman Orlowski: We're not making it up, I mean, it's in the file.
Gary Rempel: I know.
Victor L'Eplattenier: You're welcome to come take a look.
Gary Rempel: Alright. You don't want me to read it now? Part of it?
Chairman Orlowski: What is it—
Victor L'Eplattenier: I think it's actually in the file— a one page report from Nelson and
Pope which talks about the impact and it basically says what I said.
Chairman Orlowski: Caah"you find it?
Victor L'Eplattenier:G.'ll show it to him.
Gary Rempel: Alright. Thank you.
John Scabry: It just comes to my mind that, within thirty days of the last meeting, this
Consultant has studied the intersection of Henry's Lane and the proximity of the new
driveway coming in within one hundred feet of it and he's able to ascertain what's going
to happen over the next eleven months of the year? He knows what happens in the
snow. Did he make a visual inspection? We live in this Town. I don't know where the
Consultant is from. I know that the owners of Grace's Place, Agri-Business
Development, is a corporation in Schenectedy, New York. Their representative is here.
Their attorney is from out of town. I'm not sure where in Nassau County. These people
will build what they want to build and then they're gone. I'm not sure where their
consultant is from. Does he have to travel on 48 every day to work? I can't understand
how within thirty days ...(tape disturbance) perhaps within thirty days. Maybe he knows
this area real well and he can ascertain what's going to happen over the next eleven
months or the next ten years, as long as I hope to live here. But, that's not what I got up
for really. ...(tape disturbance) he didn't have the contents of my letter so he gave it to
the New York State Office of Children and Family Services ...(tape disturbance) is the
Commissioner. This letter is from Suzanne ...(tape disturbance) who is the Director of
the Bureau of Early Childhood Services up in Albany. The reason I brought ...(tape
inaudible) if it's going to be a nursery school which was presented to the Zoning Board
of Appeals and to you folks ...(tape inaudible) Early Childhood Services licenses all day
care and nursery schools in New York State. She told me that a nursery school is three
23�-
Southold Town Planninq Board Page Sixteen September 9, 2002
hours or less a day. You might call yourself whatever you want to. If you have children
in more than three hours a day, you are a day care center as per the licensing of New
York State. ...(tape inaudible) I didn't get an answer if this is going to be a nursery
school or it's going to be a day care center. ...(tape disturbance) build a hardware store
and then build a ...(tape disturbance) in this Town ...(tape disturbance) build a nursery
school and ...(tape disturbance) build a day care center. ...(inaudible tape) build a
nursery school. It's going to turn out to be a day care center. ...(tape disturbance) recent
correspondence of Governor Pataki ...(lengthy period of inaudible tape) to observe that
it's being built properly in the proper area. Is it a nursery school or is it a day care
center? Can I get an answer from somebody on the Board?
Chairman Orlowski: Nursery school.
John Skabry: So, it's going to be three hours or less a day?
Chairman Orlowski: That I'm not familiar with. I don't know if anybody here is. The way
our Code reads—
Victor L'Eplattenier: The Code deals with children six and under. That's the definition of
nursery school. That's what they got the Special Exception for and that's what the use
will be limited to. It's not the hours that define it in the Code; it's the age.
John Skabry: It's not clear to me. Is it a nursery school/or a day care center?
Chairman Orlowski: Nursery school.
Victor L'Eplattenier: We're looking at this as a nursery school.
John Skabry: The State Code says that a nursery school has to be three hours or less a
day.
Victor L'Eplattenier: They have to meet the license requirements. I'm just saying what
the Code says.
John Skabry: ...(tape disturbance) sixty-five miles an hour ...(inaudible tape) that this is
going to be a nursery school. You and I know what a nursery school is and we know
what a day care center and a social service center is. ...(inaudible tape) day care
center. Am I right or not, Victor? There is nothing in the Zoning Code that you can apply
for a day care center in this Town?
Victor L'Eplattenier: Ben, do you want me to respond?
Chairman Orlowski: Yes, please.
Victor L'Eplattenier: The Code is silent on the definition of a day care center. It does
have a clear definition of a nursery school.
Southold Town Planninq Board Page Seventeen September 9, 2002
John Skabry: ...(tape inaudible) turned into a comprehensive social services center for
migrant farm worker's children. ...(tape inaudible)whole project being approved ...(tape
inaudible) nursery school?
Chairman Orlowski: This won't be operated at night. I believe that's put in the
covenants.
John Skabry: ...(tape inaudible) go to work. You can't pick up these children at 8:00 in
the morning — and this is going to be throughout the County that they're going to bring
these people from, this is not just the Town. We could never support it. Seventy-six
children going to this center. ...(tape inaudible) leaving the property at 5:00 in the
morning, starting up the diesel engines and the headlights going into, as Mr. Rempel
said, into his living room and his bedroom windows because ...(tape inaudible)farm
here. We work with farmers. You start in the morning. ...(tape inaudible) 9:00 in the
morning to pick your children up. They're going to start picking up these children ...
(lengthy period of tape interference) so we're talking about 5:00 in the morning until, I
believe, the busses probably will return at 7:00 at night after dropping off the kids.
...(tape interference)for a place to surface. As I said in my opening statement, there
isn't really a need for it. That's the shame of it all. It's one million five hundred and
twenty-two thousand dollars of taxpayer money that's going to be wasted. Thank you.
Lori Kalinke: I'm sorry. I'm still a little bit confused. So, we're still saying that this is going
to be a nursery school instead of a day care center so ...(unintelligible) misled from the l
beginning was that this was proposed for a day care center that would be operating, l
according to New York State, all day from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. If this is going to be a
nursery school, by law from what I was told from New York State, they don't need to
meet all the requirements that a day care center does and I would like to know where,
somewhere on the island, there provides bussing for a nursery school. I've never heard
of such a thing. Why would we be providing for a nursery school bussing for children
who are newborn? They're going to get on a bus? I don't understand how that's going to
be provided. I don't see the sense in that. If it's a day care center, then I can understand
why you will be having children from newborn to six years of age. But, if you're having a
nursery school, who are not even supplied by New York State registered licensed
providers, the nursery school doesn't have to have —they can have any Joe Schmoe
come in and apply and work there. A day care center has to have their workers
screened and go through all the regulations. You have to have CPR Training; they need
a lot of requirements before they can even work at a center. So, is this what you're
saying, that these people that will be working at this nursery school — if this is what it's
going to be called — if this is what they are— is this going to be a nursery school where
children are going to be going there at these ages of newborn to six or is it going to be
for all day, where it's going to be all day 'til — because from the beginning I was misled,
saying that they were going to provide medical care, dental care. If you were having a
nursery school, you wouldn't be having any of that. So, I'm still a little bit confused and
would like to have some answers as a citizen and a resident who will be living right in
front of this. If someone could just answer me to that?
Southold Town Planning Board Page Eighteen September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: You ask a lot of professional questions that this Board does not
address.
Lori Kalinka: O.K. Well, no one seems to have my answers and that's why I'm getting
very discouraged.
Chairman Orlowski: Right.
Lori Kalinke: I've been to many numerous meetings. We don't get any answers. It gets
passed from this person, to this person, to this person, before the Planning Board. Now,
you're telling me that all these other things have approved except for a proposed site
plan for a curb cut; that's the reason why we're here this evening. When did they decide
that all these other things had been decided upon because the public hasn't known
about it, not to my knowledge. It hasn't been published in the paper, nor has it been
published anywhere else. Am I going to just wake up one morning and see a brand new
million dollar building going up? I don't understand. I don't want to wake up one day and
just find this center here. I would like to know because, believe me, I'm looking to get
out of here if this is what's going to be here because, first of all — like I said before— I
can't use the facility so why would I want to stay in a neighborhood that's going to plan
for it? It's a disgrace. I'm just asking for answers as a citizen and a taxpayer. I pay
taxes. I may look like a young person who doesn't pay any money or whatever but, I
own a home here. I've been here for eight years. I commute to my job up west because
they pay benefits up there. I can't find local work out here so I commute. My children go
west with me and I just want to know. I just want some answers and no one seems to
have any answers for me. And I just feel I need those. If I didn't pay my taxes,
somebody would be knocking on my door saying, o.k., you haven't paid your taxes so
you can't live here any more. That's all I'm asking.
James Matthews, Esq.: I'm from Matthews and Matthews, attorneys for Grace's Place.
We haven't addressed many of these issues simply because they were properly brought
up with the Zoning Board of Appeals process which deals with the use and what I can
tell you is that Grace's Place is a nursery school, as defined under the Southold Town
Code. Everything we do is presented to the Zoning Board. That's a use issue. We can
go on and on and on about use but we are in full compliance with what the Town of
Southold Code permits and we followed all the rules and gave all the notice. I respect
everyone's heartfelt feelings as being sincere and we live in a democratic society and
we're here to voice our views. We, too, respect the rules, law and complied with every
letter of the law and every request put before us and we intend to be a good neighbor, a
welcome part of this community and I would hope that you would give us the chance to
demonstrate that to you. Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker: I'm sorry, Benny. I didn't hear— Mr. Matthew's is from what town?
James Matthews, Egg.: I am a life-long resident of the County of Suffolk. I do live in the
Town of Huntington.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Nineteen September 9, 2002
Unidentified Speaker: I'm confused. I still haven't got a squared-away answer. We still
don't know if it's a nursery school or a day care center.
Chairman Orlowski: It's a nursery school. This hearing is for the changing of the
covenants, amending the covenants.
Margaret Skabry: I have a couple more questions. One time I said if it's duck, it's a
duck. O.K.? If it's a nursery school, it's a nursery school. If it's a day school, it's a day
school. Who is going to stand there and make sure how many hours those kids are in
the building? Which one of you people are going to deal with it? Or the Zoning Board of
Appeals? Who is volunteering?
Chairman Orlowski: It won't be us.
Margaret Skabry: I know. And guess who is going to end up doing it? I know that the
first time that the notices went out from the Zoning Board of Appeals, not all of the
people were notified. I challenge you now to turn it back to the Zoning Board of Appeals
and have them go back to square one, have them send out the notice of a meeting
about this. Anybody got the chutzpah?
Mr. Caggiano: Can I just make a comment?
Margaret Skabry: Please.
1.
Mr. Caq iano: I hope no one takes personal offense to this but, we've been listening to
a lot of things thrown at us and I just want to make a comment that I don't think it's a
matter of chutzpah or not chutzpah — it's a matter of law. We were appointed to this
Board and sworn in. I will stand behind the Constitution of the State of New York and
the Laws of the Town of Southold. That's what we have to do.
Margaret Skabry: Right.
Mr. Caggiano: We have books that Victor has copies of that are this thick. People have
individual property rights to do what they want with their property within the confines of
that book. Once a decision is made, that this is what you can do with your property
according to a Board, that has nothing to do with this Board, has nothing to do with the
Town Board. It's set up by the State—the Zoning Board of Appeals is a State Agency, a
State set up agency; it's a State Law-
Margaret Skabry: Right.
Mr. Caggiano: We have no control over them. Once they make a decision —and I will
take Mr. Matthew's word and I will take Gerry Goehringer's word —that the property
public notices were sent out. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Now, what you may think is
proper public notice and what is legally required may be two different things. I won't
argue that point but I'm sure they met the letter of the law. The sign on the road —
there's a sign on every piece of property— it's posted. This big. I have one down in front
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty September 9, 2002
of my house on some property that's being developed. The sign is this big. That's what
it is. So, our job is to take a look at what we have in front of us from point of view of site
plan. We have consultants we ask to look at it, from environmental, traffic, safety points
of view. We have the Building Department who looks at it and certifies it that, yes, it
meets the Code. We have our own Site Plan Reviewer who look at it for set-backs, yes
—we have landscaping, yes—we have this, yes—we have that. We have the State
DOT who says this is a proper curb cut. We have the Department of Health who says,
yes, they meet all the requirements for sanitary and water. They have all that stuff. And
the Code says that, if they have all that stuff, it's our obligation under the rule of the law
to approve that sort of thing. We can't interject our own personal opinions and I'm sure
this Board has many different opinions about what you say and, believe me, I
understand what you guys are saying because I've been through the situation before
and it feels like government just looks the other way and doesn't give a damn about
what you say. Unfortunately, there are processes and procedures you have to follow
and our personal opinions can't enter into it. That's why we're elected —or appointed —
to this position. To do what we've got to do according to the rule of law which is
encoded in our book and, as much as I may not like it, as much as any of you guys may
not like it- and I can tell that you guys are really emotionally heartfelt about this issue—
Margaret Skabry: Well, yes it's our wallets.
Mr. Caggiano: It's my wallet, too. I'm going to pay for It"
l
Margaret Skabry: ...(tape interference) Murphys tax ...(tape interference)
Chairman Orlowski: Hold it. Hold it.
Margaret Skabry: ...(tape interference) Now, I shouldn't say that. O.K. I'll apologize. I
don't mean it but I will apologize because that wasn't a nice thing to say.
Mr. Caggiano: Can I finish?
Margaret Skabry_ Sure.
Mr. Caggiano: So, the bottom line is, we have to look at what they proposed to us as an
applicant, compare it to what they're required to do in terms of what they proposed and
make a decision. And, according to the people we rely upon to make those decisions—
our professional staff and our consultants —they have said that they have met all of the
requirements that are in that little book that we need to follow. So, I don't think we have
a choice, legally, to say no. That's because we live in a society that's based on rules
and codes and we follow the rules and the codes.
Margaret Skabry: We use them. They are used.
Mr. Caggiano: Of course.
Margaret Skabry: They're not followed. They are used and abused.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-One September 9, 2002
Mr. Caggiano: I'm not going to get into a debate about—
Margaret Skabry: From our perspective, my question is: when they sent out the first
notification, they put the board up in the weeds and they sent the letters out to the
people. The people that are supposed to be notified — it's like within certain distances or
something —one of them wasn't notified.
Chairman Orlowski: Were you notified?
Margaret Skabry: No. We wouldn't have to be. We're down Henry's Lane. These are
people up on the highway that were not notified. One person was not notified. That was
at'the get go. It never should have gone through and that meeting was held at 11:00 at
night. Only one person showed up and they were new in town and they didn't know
what was going on. They got it blind sided. So, if proper notification isn't given out at the
beginning, and there are laws that you have to follow and rules you have to follow,
would it be too much to ask—we've waited this long —to wait another month to have
them check the files to see if there was proper notification of all the neighbors the first
time? I mean, it's only another month. ...(tape interference) put up a pre-fab building in
no time.
Chairman Orlowski: That was looked at and I did talk to the Zoning Board and, as far as
they're concerned, there was proper notification and I did mention to John that that's
what you have to look into and go find out - my question to them and they gave me the
answer they did.
Margaret Skabry: We tried asking the Town Attorney. Of course, there was no feed-
back. It is our opinion that there is a family that was not notified and, therefore, all of this
is wrong. And, I don't really think that if all the people were notified and understood what
was going on - you can imagine the Zoning Board of Appeals would be having the fun
that you are having with the past couple of meetings with us up here. There would have
been a lot more input for them and they might have actually listened a little bit, for a
change, to the people— being that it is, according to the State, up to the Town to go with
what the people want. I don't think it's too much to ask for another month. Look what
happened in one month. You got the whole thing approved. Your driveway was
approved we came here tonight to be told. The laws are there. Is it too much to ask for
you to go back another month? I'm going to be here for another month. Anybody leaving
between now and then? What's the rush?
Chairman Orlowski: How many months has this hearing been open?
Margaret Skabry: I have no idea. I've only been out, what, three months or so? I didn't
have an interest in it because that's all I knew about it. A year ago I didn't know.
Chairman Orlowski: It's been four months. I think we've reviewed a lot of these things.
We've discussed it. John personally called me and I've talked to you about it. It's an
emotional issue. Like Mr. Caggiano says, it's a tough issue. Unfortunately, if you believe
that the other Board did something wrong, then it's your option to challenge that.
�uK
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Two September 9, 2002
Margaret Skabry: ...(inaudible tape)through, Benny, before we challenge and it's that
much harder.
Chairman Orlowski: It's not ours. Everybody gets the wrong idea. We're looking at a site
plan. We can't look at the use. We can't challenge the use. It's not our job. It never has
been. I've never done it in the twenty some years that I've been here. It would be a
waste of my time and your time if we did something like that because once you lose,
you lose forever. I mean, you just, you don't— it's no way to win something. It's the
wrong Board. We have to look at the site. We're looking at the site plan. Our
Consultants have spoken.
(Unidentified man made a comment from the audience.)
Chairman Orlowski: If you're talking about something illegal, then that's an enforcement
issue. The County— it's their road and they own it. They have said it's o.k. with them.
They're the traffic people. It's like pulling into somebody's back yard — it's their back
yard; it's their property and they've got the right to use it.
Margaret Skabrv: That's not what I was talking about. I wasn't talking about your
driveway. I was talking about the first legal notices that went out to the people. There's
question as to whether they were done properly.
Mr. Caggiano: Did you address that with the Zoning Board?
Margaret Skab!y: How? Yes. He went down and looked through the letters.
Mr. Cag ig ano: And? I'm just curious.
John Skabrv: The following people got letters from the ZBA: J. P. Krupski, B. J. Realty,
Damianos, Rempel and Aliano. The following people got letters from the Planning
Board: J. P. Krupski, B. J. Realty, Damianos, Rempel and Aliano as well as Wicks, R. &
S. Feaker, K. & P. Homan and Tartan Oil. Neither party— neither organizations —
Planning or ZBA— notified the L.I. Railroad who are property owners adjacent to that
property which is a failure on the part of the Planning Board, in my opinion. So, we have
four additional people that were notified by Planning Board in certified letters than were
notified by the ZBA. But, as I said, nobody was —the L.I. Railroad never was asked if
they thought it was a proper zone change or Planning Board approval for their property
to speak tonight. They are not here tonight to speak because nobody ever did send
them a letter.
Chairman Orlowski: Hold on one second. (Mr. Skabry continued talking as the tape was
changed.)
Margaret Skabry: My question remains being that there is a question about the
notification process that was done by the Zoning Board of Appeals at the get go. It
shouldn't even be here at the point of curb cut. It should have been returned to the
Zoning Board of Appeals where they have to deal with this in person and answer our
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Three September 9, 2002
questions and I really don't think at this point—you know, we have waited four months
too, but it was a year before that when he was at that eleven o'clock meeting at the
other Board. ...(inaudible) Building Department. I don't think they have meetings like
this where we could say to them what are you crazy so I just want to know why can't
you wait another month, if you had waited this long? What would happen if I go down to
Hellenic Restaurant ...(inaudible), there's a sign that they've been waiting for approval
since '98 for building down there, what is another month for something that the people
of the Town don't want but other people from outside the Town want us to have for
them? Thirty stinking days that is all it is.
Chairman Orlowski: What would happen in that month?
Margaret Skabry: If we can find out that the notification was done incorrectly, then you
would have to return it to the Zoning Board of Appeals. They would have to list it in the
paper. From Square One, we start all over.
Chairman Orlowski: That's something that you would have to pursue.
Margaret Skabrv: Why do I have to do it if you say that they can go put the shovels in
the ground, Benny? It comes to you and it is not supposed to be here. So, you turn it
back to them. Are you afraid of them?
Chairman Orlow,ki: No, but four months ago when John called me, that is the first thing
looked into an!d I was told that they notified properly. Now, if you don't think they
notified properly, it seems like you are on your way to an Article 78 and you can pursue.
I cannot challenge something that I have already been told is o.k.
Margaret Skabry: Who told you that it is o.k.?
Chairman Orlowski: The Zoning Board.
Mr. L'Er)lattenier: They also sent a memo.
Chairman Orlowski: And they sent a memo - I mean, it came in a memo.
Margaret Skabry: I didn't get it. My point is how can you go ahead and vote on
something if there is a question about? If you have a question about the gas station and
you send it back to them, and they say, oh yeah, that's fine to stick kids next to the gas
station — no sweat—then, why can't you send it back for this? Thirty days -what is the
problem?
Chairman Orlowski: We did.
Margaret Skabry: Send it back and ask them if this is correct.
Chairman Orlowski: We did and it came back that the notification was proper.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Four September 9, 2002
Margaret Skabry: So, what do we have to do? What do we have to do now, Benny, to
get them not to go to the point of getting a shovel in the ground?
Chairman Orlowski: You always have the option of filing an Article 78.
Margaret Skabry: So, what is that?
Chairman Orlowski: You need an attorney.
Margaret Skabry: So, we have to spend more money because some people get an
inside line to the people that want this?
Chairman Orlowski: What you're asking this Board is to make a decision that it can't.
Margaret Skabry: No, I am not. I am asking you to look and say o.k., this was done
incorrectly. It should never have been brought to us.
Chairman Orlowski: It was done correctly, as far as we know.
Margaret Skabry: As far as they are telling you.
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Margaret Skabry: No. You are going ahead and you are-going to do it tonight, Benny,
and you are wrong doing that if we know that they did not notify the same people both
times. Then what - did you do it wrong? Did this Board do it wrong? Did they notify too
many people? Is that the problem? Somebody was wrong and, if you are not wrong,
then they were wrong and it shouldn't go forward tonight. It should go back to them
again.
Mr. Caggiano: If I am not mistaken, in the notification there is a minimum amount of
people you must require. You can notify the whole town if you wanted to, but there is a
minimum you must require, but you can notify as many people as you want.
Margaret Skabry: The one they did not notify is directly across from the lots.
Mr. Caggiano: I don't know about that.
Margaret Skabry: I am telling you.
Mr. Caggiano: We have a situation here where the Zoning Board has given us an official
resolution saying that they approved a certain use and that's the official resolution that
we have. We have someone coming up and saying they did it wrong. Well, so we have
this. Technically, we have to abide by official resolution of the Zoning Board of Appeals..
If you think that is improper, then you have the option of going and appealing to the
Zoning Board and saying we think you did it wrong. And that goes back to what Benny
said - you have an Article 78; you are in Court and it goes on forever.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Five September 9, 2002
Margaret Skabry: Isn't it kind of like the Zoning Board is a closed book? Can people
approach it?
Mr. Caggiano: I try not to get involved in the Zoning Board.
Margaret Skabry: And there's a reason for that.
Mr. Caggiano: They are a separate, individual, independent body created by the State
that we have nothing to do with except we have - there are many times when they do
things that this whole Board 5-0 would have said absolutely no way.
Margaret Skabry: Well, power corrupts. It does, especially when you have exclusive
power.
Mr. Caggiano: I don't want to get into stuff like that. This is not the place for that.
Margaret Skabry: I know that you have held this over other times when you have had
questions. ...(inaudible) you, being that we are raising these questions, if you hold it
over until we look into it - until we get a lawyer or until we can ask the Town Attorney
and we can have him show us where it says who has to be notified.
Mr. Caggiano: Well, I don't want to be facetious, or make your argument seem not t -be
as important as it really is, but it has been four months and when Benny spoke with
John, you could have done that four months ago. (,
Margaret Skabry: So, what? ...(inaudible) thirty years big deal ..:(inaudible)
Mr. Cagqiano: I am not trying to argue with you. All I am trying to say is government is
difficult, as you know. Processes get involved and convoluted and we have to do what
the book says or else we are not upholding our obligations to the office we swore that
we will uphold.
Margaret Skabry: Does it go back to what I said before - somebody is going to get sued
and you don't want to be the ones?
Mr. Edwards: We have been sued many times.
Margaret Skabry: I know. I know but it hurts after a while. It is kind of like giving yourself
shots for diabetes and stuff. It hurts like -
Mr. Caggiano: No, it's just another one on the list. That does not phase any of us
anymore. I am just speaking for myself. It is just another one on the list.
Margaret Skabry: Just because, basically, you don't give a damn anymore.
Mr. Caggiano: That's not a fair statement.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Six September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: That's not so.
Margaret Skabry: Yeah, I think it is. At this point, that is the way I feel but, you know,
...(inaudible) it's been nice talking to you. I'm sure you're a nice bunch of people and .
stuff but, you know, I sure hope I never get on a Board and have people coming to me
feeling desperately that you could have given another month and I just have to tell you,
uh.
Chairman Orlowski: I don't think you would want to be in our position at all.
Margaret Skabry: No, I would want nothing to do with politics - nothing. It is not a good
place to be.
Chairman Orlowski: It is not politics; it is a code. It is your code; it's your rules. It is your
laws. You can come and change them. You can talk to the Town Board and do it. We
have to go by the book.
Margaret Skabry: I can't change them in this town. Real estate can change them in this
town.
Chairman Orlowski: You can change them. You have to go there and, yes, you have to
put in time to do it but everybody can. That's why we vote and that is why we are here.
don't agree with a lot of things and maybe I don't agree with a lot of things going on
here tonight and it is a sensitive issue and maybe I feel just like you do, but I just-when
we are just looking at the site plan, we can't sit here and make things up to knock things
over and throw things out because, if we could do that, everybody would be scared to
come here or we would be locked up somewhere.
Margaret Skabry: I can't believe it has reached a point where you are going to go ahead
with it tonight.
Chairman Orlowski: It has been four months. It's not a point; it's been four months. It's
been four months and I have had discussions with your husband —
Mrs. Skabrv: If it was one hundred years, I would still be disappointed in you.
Chairman Orlowski: - and we have talked about it and you have had as much time to
work on this as the applicant has almost.
Margaret Skabry: I'm not a lawyer. I don't have the money to hire the lawyers.
....(inaudible) counted on and I am not getting paid to do this either. This is not my
career; it is just my life. Well, thanks for your time. Don't want you to lose too much
sleep tonight but I really don't appreciate what you are going to do. Thanks.
John SkabrY: Benny, the attorney, Mr. Matthews from Huntington, said that he wanted
to work with the community. Nobody has looked at this right-of-way issue. I
...(inaudible) at the get go. It is about the right-of-way issue. It is a hundred and fifty
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Seven September 9, 2002
feet. That is all they need -that right-of-way along the railroad and they are on to a
public right-of-way.
Chairman Orlowski: John, you are going to be sending the traffic somewhere. I mean,
the traffic - what you are talking about- you have to send it somewhere. We do not
condone right-of-ways and right-of-ways are tough to get public access to different right-
of-ways.
John Skabry: One point four million dollars that they got for selling the Development
Rights and then the property- Peconic Land Trust -they got one point four million
dollars. They only need a hundred and fifty feet of right-of-way along the railroad. If we
can't address that tonight, it is senseless to have a Planning Board because that is part
of the site plan - where the driveway is going to be, how the site is going to be designed,
how it is going to affect the Town. If we can funnel the traffic to Peconic Lane, which is
shortly going to have a traffic light according to the County because of all the deaths
that have been there, the children will be safer. The children ...(inaudible) traffic light.
Chairman Orlowski: O.K. Any other new comments? Hearing none, I will entertain a
motion to close the hearing.
Mr. Caggiano: So moved.
Mr. Cremers: �_.econd.
f
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries. (The hearing was closed at 7:30
P.M.)
Margaret Skabry: What was the motion?
Chairman Orlowski: To close the hearing.
I will make a motion:
WHEREAS, Agri-Business Child Development, a division of New York State Federation
of Growers & Processors Association, Inc. (referred to as ABCD) are the owners of the
property known and designated as "Grace's Place", located on County Route 48, 1307'
west of Paul's Lane in Peconic; and
WHEREAS, ABCD is the owner of the premises more fully described in the annexed
Schedule "A" (hereinafter sometimes referred to as the "subject premises"), and has
submitted an application to the Planning Board for the Town of Southold for site plan
approval for a nursery school on the subject premises situated in the Town of Southold,
. o27'T
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Eight September 9, 2002
County of Suffolk, State of New York, which property is further described on the Suffolk
County Tax Map as District 1000-74-4-4.7 &4.8; and
WHEREAS, the subject premises are two lots of an eight lot subdivision previously
approved by the Planning Board of the Town of Southold (hereinafter referred to as "the
Aliano Subdivision"), all of which lots are subject to a Declaration of Covenants and
Restrictions, dated March 31, 1993, and recorded in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office
on June 4, 1993 at liber 11631, page 638 (hereinafter referred to as the "Covenants and
Restrictions"), which Covenants and Restrictions provide that there shall be one
common curb cut on County Road 48 as shown on the approved map for all eight lots
with one common driveway for all eight lots, twenty feet in width, as shown on the
approved map to be maintained in equal proportions by all lot owners; and further that
said Covenants and Restrictions can be modified only at the request of the then owner
with the approval of a majority plus one of the Planning Board of the Town of Southold
after a public hearing on notice to adjoining property owners, whose consent to such
modification shall not be required; and
WHEREAS, the ABCD is the owner of Lots 7 and 8 of the Aliano Subdivision, and on
August 22, 2002, the Town of Southold purchased the Development Rights to Lots 1
through 6 of the Aliano Subdivision, known as Suffolk County Tax Map Nos. 1000-74-4-
4.1 through 4.6 and more fully described in the annexed Schedule "B"; and
WHEREAS, the subject premises, Lots 7 and4 of the Aliano Subdivision, have been
merged into one lot; and
WHEREAS, due to the Sale of the Development Rights to the Town of Southold, Lots 1
through 6 of the Aliano Subdivision have also merged under separate ownership from
Lots 7 & 8; and
WHEREAS, in recognition of the aforesaid Sale of Development Rights to the Town of
Southold, the existing curb cut in the Aliano Subdivision shall be reserved solely for the
use of Lots 1 through 6, now merged into one lot, and that there now will be a separate
curb cut solely for use of merged Lots 7 & 8; and
WHEREAS, ABCD as owner of merged Lots 7 & 8 requests that the Covenants and
Restrictions be so modified, conditioned upon the issuance of a curb cut permit from the
Suffolk County Department of Public Works and all other required permits and further
conditioned on ABCD receiving final site plan approval; and
WHEREAS, ABCD for the purpose of carrying out the intentions above expressed does
hereby make known, admit, publish, covenant and agree that said subject premises
described herein in the annexed Schedules "A" and "B" shall hereinafter and forever be
subject to the following Covenants and Restrictions, which shall run with the land and
shall be binding upon all purchasers and holders of said premises, their heirs,
executors, legal representatives, distributees, successors and assigns, as more fully set
forth below and which constitute modifications to the Covenants and Restrictions, dated
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Nine September 9, 2002
March 31, 1993, and filed in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office on June 4, 1993 at liber
11631, page 638:
1) There shall be one curb cut on Route 48 for the exclusive
use of previous Lots 1 through 6 of the Aliano Subdivision,
which have been merged into a single 12.25 acre agricultural
parcel. There shall be a second curb cut on Route 48 for the
exclusive use of previous Lots 7 and 8 of the Aliano
Subdivision, which lots were merged as required by the
Planning Board as part of the site plan approval for a
proposed nursery school, a use previously approved by
Special Permit of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of
Southold, Application No. 4969.
2) Other than as set forth in paragraph I" herein, the common
driveway shown on the approved Aliano Subdivision
applicable to all lots shall be abandoned; there shall be a
common driveway required only for Lots 7 & 8 in a separate
curb cut.
3) These Covenants and Restrictions can be modified only at
the request of the then owner of the premises with the f
approval of the majority plus one of the Southold Town /
Planning Board after a public hearing. Adjoining property l
owners shall be entitled to notice of such public hearing, but
their consent to such modifications shall not be required; and
WHEREAS, as a condition of final approval of the Grace's Place Site Plan,
these amended Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions must be
recorded with the County Clerk's Office and the liber and page number of
the recorded document must be noted on the final subdivision plan; be it
therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve the amended
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions and authorize the Chairman to
endorse these modifications.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
**********
24
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: 6:10 p.m. - Floyd F. King, Jr. Revocable Trust - This proposed lot
line change is to subtract 2,699 sq. ft. from an 8,745 sq. ft. parcel, SCTM#1000-24-2-
26.3, and add it to a 7,750 sq. ft. parcel, SCTM#1000-24-2-26.2. The property is located
at 225 Private Road #14 in Orient.
Margaret Skabry_ I just want to say thank you for your time.
Chairman Orlowski: You're welcome. I just want to note that the applicant sent a letter—
not the applicant, somebody that lives down there— sent a letter—William S. Kostasoni
(sp.?) and Pamela Valentine. It will be placed in the record so we'll put that in the file.
Now, I will ask if there are any new comments on this lot line change?
Unidentified Speaker: I just want to say that I'm so proud of my neighbors. God bless
them and God bless America. Thank you.
Chairman Orlowski: Thank you.
Richard Lark, Esq., Main Road, Cutchogue, for the applicant: This has been before the
Board before with the prior attorney who you then requested, due to the size of the
proposed two lots involved in the property- in the Floyd King Trust - to get a variance
due to the area. And, of course there are, as you know, two existing buildings on there.
The application was made and the Board of Appeals did — and I know you have a copy
of it—did grant it back in May—did grant a variance approving the lot line change. Just
by way of background, the applicant who is the Trustee, is just carrying out the
provisions of the Trust where the Grantor, Mr. King — Floyd King —wanted these two
lots separated for two members of his family, each with 85 feet of waterfront and that's
what the Surveyor, Mr. Lewindowski, did with the lot line changes there. So, I'm here
primarily to answer any questions since the ZBA did grant the area thing which you
needed done before you could look at it.
Chairman Orlowski: Any other comments? Hearing none, any questions from the
Board? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing.
Mr. Edwards: So move.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-One September 9, 2002
WHEREAS, the applicant proposes to amend the lot line between two improved lots
(Tax Map Numbers1000-24-2-26.2 and 1000-24-2-26.3) where Lot 1 equals 10,449
square feet and Lot 2 equals 6,046 square feet, as depicted on the survey dated June
7, 2001; and
WHEREAS, The Town of Southold Zoning Board of Appeals granted an area variance
for the non-conforming lots (Appl. No. 5054)without conditions on May 2, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board acknowledges that the area variance does not
authorize or condone any current or future use, setback or other feature of the subject
property; and
WHEREAS, the lots are improved and therefore Suffolk County Department of Health
and/or Suffolk County Water Authority approval or permits are not required; and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold
have been met; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action.
The Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency, makes a
determination-of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwar(1,,s Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Mr. Cremers:
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant final approval on
the maps, dated June 7, 2001, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the maps.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
**********
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Two September 9, 2002
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Chairman Orlowski: Perino, Joseph —This proposed major subdivision is for 7 lots on
20.8211 acres. The property is located on the south side of Main Road, 150' west of
Sigsbee Road in Mattituck. SCTM#1000-122-7-9.
This was a piece of property where the hearing was opened but they could not close it
and it's now tied up in the temporary moratorium that is now going on.
I would like to entertain a motion that we keep this in abeyance.
Mr. Cremers:
WHEREAS, the above application is a major subdivision without an
executed conservation component; be it therefore
RESOLVED that Local Law Number 3 was adopted at the regular meeting of the
Southold Town Board on August 13, 2002 entitled "Local Law in relation to a Temporary
Moratorium on Processing, Review of, and making decisions on applications for Major
Subdivisions, Minor Subdivisions and Special Use Permits containing Dwelling Units in
the Town of Southold" and, therefore, no comment can be accepted or action can be
made on this application. "
Mr. Ca iano: Second the motion.gg 1.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Chairman Orlowski: Island Health Project, Inc. - This proposed lot line change is to
merge a 10,890 sq. ft. parcel, SCTM#1000-9-2-6.2, with a 12,565 sq. ft. parcel,
SCTM#1000-9-2-8, creating a 23,455 sq. ft. parcel. The properties are located at the
north corner of Oriental Avenue and Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island.
Again, the applicant is requesting to keep this hearing open. So, I'll entertain that
motion.
Mr. Cremers: So move.
Mr. Caggiano: Second.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Three September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Sidor.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'd like the record to state that I abstain for reasons
previously stated.
Chairman Orlowski: Let it be so noted in the record that Mr. Edwards abstained for
reasons previously stated.
Opposed? The motion carries.
**********
Chairman Orlowski: Grace's Place -This proposed site plan is to construct a 7,000 sq.
ft. nursery school facility on a 4.6 acre parcel. The property is located on CR 48 in
Peconic. SCTM#1000-74-4-4.7 &4.8
I'll ask if there are any new comments on this site plan.
Gary Rempel: A little while ago I had asked if you had that survey.
Chairman Orlowski: The letter, es. Vic do you want to show Mr. Rem el t e/l
y y p h t. letter? We
have to leave it in the file.
Gary Rempel: Can I ask you a question? I don't know if it's -
Chairman Orlowski: Is it a new one?
Gary Rempel: It is a new one. I've got to keep you awake and give you a new one. I
don't know if this is under your jurisdiction. I am just reading in the local paper today and
it was an issue in Greenport about variance approval and one of the things they were
saying, of course, was any building plan that falls within five hundred feet of a recreation
area or state highway or bay has to be approved by the Suffolk County Planning Board.
Was that done to Grace's Place?
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Gary Rempel: Was that a separate paper that was in there?
Chairman Orlowski: That's separate. That is the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
Gary Rempel: Is it in the file? I did not see it when I had looked.
Chairman Orlowski: Yes, it is in the file.
2�0
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Four September 9, 2002
Gary Rempel: It was in there. O.K. Thank you.
Chairman Orlowski: Any other comments?
Unidentified Speaker: All I've got to say is if you guys approve this, you just approved
another death trap on that highway with that curb cut. It is so simple to go in the back.
People are going to get killed. It is a shame. It really is. What people will do for money. I
know because I see it every damn day.
Margaret Skabry: Hi. I am Margaret Skabry, again. I do have a question. I heard at the
end of what you were reading in that already prepared thing that the lawyers for Grace's
Place had and it said, if they look for access or exit from it, they would have to notify
twenty people?
Chairman Orlowski: Adjoining people.
Margaret Skabry: Yes. Where are you going to find twenty adjoining people? That's a
stretch.
Chairman Orlowski: I don't believe I said twenty. I meant-
Marqaret Skabry: It was the number twenty, yes. I'm pretty sure—twenty.
Chairman Orlowski: Adjoining property owners. That's all I said.
Marqaret Skabry: Was there twenty- do you have Pindar, gas station, railroad?
Chairman Orlowski: I did not say twenty.
Mar-garet Skabry: Yes, there was a twenty said there. Absolutely.
Chairman Orlowski: I'm sorry but it is not even written.
Marqaret Skabry; You said it. It came out of your mouth. I was sitting right there in the
front. Twenty people notified. If they decided to seek for a different exit.
Chairman Orlowski: Well, if I did, it will come out in the minutes and it will have to be
changed but I don't believe I said that.
Richard Caggiano: I think, the point is, if he did say twenty, he meant to say adjoining.
Because in this entire resolution, there is no number twenty.
Margaret Skabry: I mean, how come, you know, we get like six one time, twelve another
time, and then they make it twenty and there are not twenty. I thought you said there
were rules about how many had to be notified.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Five September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: The rule is, since I have been here, is just the adjoining properties.
We extend ourselves and send it across the street and maybe directly across the street
but I believe the Code just says adjoining.
Margaret Skabry: Does the Zoning Board have different rules?
Chairman Orlowski: Same rules. And that's probably why we sent out more than they
did so -
Margaret Skabry: Because they seem —
Chairman Orlowski: And another thing -we do not send them, the applicant does.
Margaret Skabry: O.K. Just interesting the way it was changed. Thank you.
John Skabry: You said that you have waited four months for the final approval but the
date of this letter is only August 29th from the Engineer and that's not four months.
That's less than thirty days the way I figure it. This engineer sent you this letter-
Chairman Orlowski: No, John. That was the start of the hearing process.
John Skab I am only talking about the resolution that you passed giving them the new
curb cut ploser to Henry's Lane. You had mentioned, under that discussion, that it was
four mo!::iths that they have been waiting but they have been waiting only one month - or
less than one month -for the curb cut for the driveway closer to Henry's Lane, not four
months. And this is one paragraph which says nothing about Henry's Lane or the gas
station. As Gary said, nobody has been out there to look at it, to count the cars or to see
how many accidents occur there and what is going to happen in the future. I can't
believe that this Nelson, Pope -this planning and consulting company- can sign their
name to something like that -this Shanna Lacey.
Chairman Orlowski: You have to remember, John, they reviewed everything.
John Skabry: They reviewed a piece of paper- that is all they looked at was a piece of
paper. They probably have not even been into town.
Chairman Orlowski: They reviewed everything, as they have in the past for us, and it is
a lot of information that they had in front of them from before because they have been
doing work for use for years.
John Skabry: Could you make a survey of this of East Meadow - if you were an
engineer? They just get a piece of paper out of the file. They look at a map - a
Hagstrom or whatever they want to look at - and they say we're going to move the
driveway six hundred feet. That map does not show the gas station; it doesn't show the
number of accidents. How could they possibly, within thirty days, say that they have
these engineers -this company from -where are they from, Victor?-from Melville, NY -
understand what happens at that corner and what this site plan is all about?
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Six September 9, 2002
Victor L'Eplattenier: Could we keep that file up at this desk?
John Skabrv: Sorry, Victor.
Chairman Orlowski: O.K. Any other comments?
Lori Kalinke: I am just going to comment on the letter myself because I just did a survey
myself standing out there for thirty-five minutes of time and there were almost forty
vehicles - six motorcycles and thirty-five cars that went in the wrong way and I am a
resident that lives on that street near that area. With my child, I am standing there
watching these people,just wondering when this person actually physically came out
here and had done this survey and did he actually stand there and count the amount of
cars he counted going in or did he just look at a piece of paper and say, o.k., that looks
good, let's sign off on it. I mean, I live there. I see what goes on. I can't pull out of my
street everyday and, based on a survey I just did myself- I mean, maybe you don't think
the numbers matter, but I do. I have children growing up in this area who someday I
would like to raise out here and have to try to cross this road and this is what, you know,
they want to propose. If they put a light there, that is something else but I have not
heard anything about that yet. But, right now, it is a danger so I am just wondering when
this person might have done that.
Chairman Orlowski: Any other comments?f fearing none -
Gary Rempel: I read the letter but it doesnn't explain anything how it was done, how they
arrived at the numbers. I mean, it is a shame, when you see a letter like this, it really
doesn't explain how anything was done and it's going dictate to us -the local community
- who spent the time to go out there and live it every day and know that this is wrong. I
could take you out there right now, after this meeting, and we stand out there and you
would know that it is wrong - the traffic. I am not lying; I am not manufacturing this. It's
real. So, I don't know how something like that can dictate what is going to happen.
John Skabry: I would like to reflect back - I know you were on the Planning Board in the
80's when they wanted to build an airport in this Town, when there were proponents of
an airport and they got engineering studies. They spent fifty thousand dollars on
engineering studies to come before this Planning Board and the Town Board and
explained how poor this Town was going to be without an airport. They predicted dire
economic disaster for this Town if we could not become part of the national air
transportation system. Directly opposite has happened and the communities with the
airports are suffering now economically. It is the same exact thing - if I want to hire an
engineering firm to find out the best place to build a nuclear bomb factory, and I paid
him well, he will say Peconic. You and I know what the intersection is like. We have to
vote our conscience tonight. We know what this intersection is like. These people are
not politicians. They are only looking out for their own welfare and their neighbors. I ask
you to vote your conscience tonight.
Chairman Orlowski: O.K. Any other comments? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion
to close the hearing.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Seven September 9, 2002
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion?All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Unidentified Speaker: I hope you people sleep good tonight. Somebody's going to get
killed on that highway. You, too, Murphy.
Chairman Orlowski: What is the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Caggiano: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
WHEREAS, this proposed site plan, to be known as Grace's Place, is to construct a
7,000 sq. ft. nursery school on a 4.6 acre parcel on County Route 48 in Peconic; and
WHEREAS, Agri-Business Child Development, a division of New York State-federation
of Growers and Processors Association, Inc. (referred to as ABCD), are thelowners of
the property known and designated as "Graces Place", SCTM#1000-74-4-;4.7 and 4.8;
and
WHEREAS, a formal application for approval of this site was submitted on June 29,
2001; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental
Quality Review Act (Article 8) Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a
Negative Declaration on April 18, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals granted a Special Exception for a nursery
school for up to 76 students in an A-C zone on July 12, 2001, Application No. 4969; and
WHEREAS, the site plan, dated 5/9/01 and last revised 8/25/02, was certified by the
Building Inspector on September 6, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Town Engineer has reviewed the drainage calculations and the
Planning Board has accepted his recommendation for approval; and
WHEREAS, on December 18, 2001, the Architectural Review Committee reviewed and
approved the proposed site plan application; and
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Eight September 9, 2002
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice of
Public Hearing has received affidavits that the application has complied with the
notification provisions; and
WHEREAS, the applicant has requested an amendment to the Declaration of
Covenants and Restrictions, dated March 3, 1993, as a consequence of the Sale of the
Development Rights on Lots 1 — 6 of the Aliano subdivision in Peconic, which is
adjacent to the applicants parcel and this change in ownership caused the common
driveway and curb cut pertaining to Grace's Place (Lots 7& 8 of the subdivision)to be
relocated to provide direct access to the nursery school; and
WHEREAS, the amendment to the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions was
approved by the Southold Town Planning Board on September 9, 2002; and
WHEREAS, as a condition of final site plan approval, the amended Declaration of
Covenants and Restrictions must be recorded in the County Clerk's Office and the liber
and page number of the recorded document must be noted on the deeds for Lots 7 & 8;
and
WHEREAS, an additional Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions pertaining to the
Grace's Place Site Plan (Lots 7 and 8)was offered by the applicant to further restrict
operational elements of the nursery school proposed for the site and these have been
accepted by the Southold Town Planning Board as a condition of final site plan
approval, and must be noted on the final site plan; BE IT THEREFORE
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant final approval on the site
plan, dated April 20, 2001 and-last revised August 25, 2002, and authorize the
Chairman to endorse the final site plan, subject to the following conditions, which must
be met prior to the issuance of any building permits:
1. Recording of the amended Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions
pertaining to the access to Lots 7 & 8 (SCTM# 1000-74-4-4.7 & 4.8).
2. Recording of the second set of Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions
pertaining to the use of Grace's Place site (SCTM#1000-74-4-4.7), and noted
on the final site plan.
3. Notation of the liber and page number of recorded Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions on the final site plan.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Nine September 9, 2002
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET
OFF APPLICATIONS
Setting of Final Hearings:
Chairman Orlowski: Burger/Kosmynka - This proposed lot line change is to amend the
lot line of SCTM#1000-98-17 to form two single and separate lots where Lot 1 equals
22,297 square feet and Lot 2 equals 36,617 square feet. The property is located at 1900
Pine Tree Road in Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-98-1-15, 16 & 17
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
WHEREAS, the lots 1000-98-1-15 and 1000-98-1-16 merged pursuant to Article II
Section 100-25A; and
WHEREAS, the applicant proposes to amend the lot line of SCTM#1000-98-17 to form
two single and separate lots where Lot 1 equals 22,297 square feet and Lot 2 equals
36, 617lsquare feet; and
i
WHEREAS, The Town of Southold Zoning Board of Appeals granted an area variance
for the non-conforming lots (Appl. No. 5058), with conditions, on July 25, 2002; and
WHEREAS, all of the conditions have been met as outlined on the map revised on
August 28, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board acknowledges that the area variance does not
authorize or condone any current or future use, setback or other feature of the subject
property; and
WHEREAS, no structure is proposed at this time and therefore Suffolk County
Department of Health and/or Suffolk County Water Authority approval or permits are
not required; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action.
The Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency, makes a
determination of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
o2��O
Southold Town Planning Board Page Forty September 9, 2002
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Mr. Cremers: In addition -
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday,
October 7, 2002, at 6:05 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps, dated August 28,
2002.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
********************
SITE PLANS
Setting of Final Hearings:
l
Chairman Orlowski: Lewis Marine Supply- This proposed site plan is for a 1,400 sq. ft.
warehouse addition and a 4,992 sq. ft. warehouse replacement on 1.54 acres. The
property is located at 230 Corwin Street in Greenport. SCTM#1000-48-2-1 & 44.1
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes
a determination that this is a Type II Action requiring no further review.
Mr. Caggiano: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Mr. Cremers: In addition -
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, October 7,
2002, at 6:00 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps, dated May 31, 2002 and last revised
July 31, 2002.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Forty-One September 9, 2002
Mr. Caggiano: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
There is nothing left on my agenda. There will not be a Work Session tonight because
we have nothing for the Work Session. If anybody wants to put anything on the record,
they can do so now or we'll just adjourn the meeting.
Mr. Caggiano: So moved.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned
at 8:10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
c
Carol Kalin
Barbara Rudder
rilyn . Woodhouse, Chairperson