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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-07/12/1995 HEARING APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS O� aa%jfFO��CO hy� Gy Southold Town Hall Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman o 53095 Main Road Serge Doyen, Jr. 0 _ P.O. Box 1179 James Dinizio,Jr. Oy • �� Southold,New York 11971 Robert A. Villa �lJ O Fax(516) 765-1823 Lydia A.Tortora ®d �� Telephone(516)765-1809 BOARD OF APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD PUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD July 12, 1995 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE J. DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member LYDIA A. TORTORA, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistant to Board Page 1 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:32 Diane Herold, Architect: Appl. No. 4316 Oscar & Beth Blevins: . This is a Variance based upon the May 11, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for the permission to relocate dwelling and garage addition which will have insufficient front and side yard setbacks, Article 111A, Section 100-30A.3. Location of property: 640 Haywaters Drive (and Mason Drive) , Cutchogue, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1.000-104-5-23. Zone District: R-40 Chairman: A copy of a map which is certified to Diane Herold most recent date June 25, 1994 and revised March 13, 1.995. I have a copy of a Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would someone like to be heard? We're sorry we didn't pull the other podium out for you. Diane Herold: I was requested to bring the , DEC and the map and a copy of it. This is for the board because it shows existing conditions and proposed conditions and your board may not be aware of them. I'm the architect and I'd just like to ruri through what we're proposing at the site for the board's benefit. We're proposing a deck on the west side of the house; which is on the wet lands side. We're expecting to change the screen porch into a kitchen. We're adding a two .car garage on the east side of the property. We're enlarging the existing second floor and we're putting in a new foundation underneath the building. The building currently sits on concrete tiers and is not closed in below. We feel we have a definite hardship with this property. It's on the corner of Mason Drive and Haywaters Drive which means we have two front yard setbacks to contend with. Also, the permit issued by the Board Town Trustees Southold township dated October 27 1994, and also the permit issued by the New York State DEC on June 19, 1995. Both I haven't sent to the board and they probably read. Both require sixty foot setbacks from the wetland edge. I've marked that in red on the wetland map which I just gave to you. That means all construction has to be back behind that line. We'll lose approximately one third of the total area of the lot. This reduces our buildable area considerable. Also, the property narrows as you go towards the east side so that construction becomes a little more difficult because of the required setbacks. We feel we've come up with a solution that should be agreeable to the board. Just replacing the building on a new foundation we do have the opportunity to move the building. We're suggesting that we make it parallel to Mason Drive, and therefore we can keep the existing non confirming setbacks. If you 4` Page 2 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals look at the site plans that I provided you'll see that the building, the existing front yard is now 23.6. We're proposing 25 feet. The existing side yard setback is on the north side. The screened porch is 11 feet plus your minus for the property line and that will remain unchanged. The garage addition will be almost conforming or will be conforming to the 15 foot side yard setback that is required. Chairman: Your not destroying anything here. Your simply just picking this house up and then place on a new foundation. Diane Herod: No, it's all disturbed area. As part of our conditions we are removing that one driveway that comes off of Mason. The DEC requested that in there permit. Also, we requested to change the sanitary system. They wrote a letter to the Board because there is some question who has jurisdiction' on the sanitary system and I was hoping the Board could. give me some guidelines on that also. Chairman: You want an answer. Diane Herod: Sure. Chairman: We think the Building Department will have the jurisdiction. They are the ones that are going to require you. They will make the determination if they construe it to be more than a percentage, which would then require you to go to the Health Department. Diane Herod: The. Board of Health is reluctant to act on this application. Chairman: Right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Also the trustees would have jurisdiction on this. Chairman: Yes, trustees also. Diane Herod: Could I go back to the trustees and ask them for something that would take to the Health Department because it's better when a group decides, than when a individual decides. Thank you. Do you have any questions, or do you have any questions on what they are proposing to do. Chairman: I don't have any specific questions at this time. We'll see what developes throughout the .hearing. I have been down at the site, I did look at it. I am familiar with this area. It's a very Page 3 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals beautiful area and we'll ask the board members if they have any questions. We'll start with Mr. Villa. Board Member Villa: My only question is, where's the well? Chairman: Where is the well? Board Member Villa: This whole proposed sewer system is right in the middle of the lot basically, where are you going to put the water supply. Mr. Blevins: On the northeast corner. Chairman: Northeast. Board Member Villa: Up by Haywaters Drive Mr. Blevins: It's right at the corner of the house. Board Member Villa: Corner of the house. Mr. Blevins: Can I show you the map. Chairman: Sure. Mr. Blevins: Let me show you how it sits now. The well is right here. Secretary L. Kowalski: Could you mark that on our copy please for the files I couldn't see. Thank you. Chairman: Is that a submersible one or is it shallow. O K Board Member Villa: That would probably become an issue if you have to go the Health Department. They probably are going to require you to relocate. Diane Herold: That is what happened. I spoke to Mr. Bridham at the Health Department. He said that all the wells and all sanitary systems in that area, we would have to go for a variance. It would take up to six months to get that variance and it would cost $330.00 and $450.00 for the different permits from that department. This is basically Mr. Reynolds whose head of the Health Department is requesting the municipalities handle it themselves. They are requesting to change the sanitary system. Page 4 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: I should think you would want to relocate it anyway, because if you put the sanitary system where it's proposed, the likelihood of it flowing towards the well is pretty good. Diane Herod: The sanitary system location was selected because the trustees asked us to get as far away from the wet lands as possible and we were also trying not to get to close to the neighbors well. Our first concern was the neighbors. Board Member Villa: Yes, but the direction of the ground water flow would be somewhat towards your own well, and you'd be pretty close to it. I should think you'd be concerned about that. Chairman: Jim. No, I have no questions. Mr. Blevins: Could I interject. Chairman: Surely. Mr. Blevins: Whatever the reasonable solution is we would like to have some 'input into it. We want to do whatever is best. Board Member Villa: I'm just looking out for your owii health. Mr. Blevins: We'll I agree with you. It's pretty poor the way it exists. Chairman: Mr. Villa is a past engineer for thirty three years with the Suffolk County Department of Health Services. That's why we start with Mr. Villa. O K Mrs. Tortora. Board Member Tortora: The only question I have is I noticed that last year DEC was concerned with about the proximity to the CDM line, and they had suggested that the house be moved back at least 5 feet, buffer zone from the construction activity. I wondered if the map that you presented to us reflects that or was that done. Diane HEROD: That was changed. After we worked it out they asked us to clear a certain area put wood chips and let natural vegetation come through. It should be on that permit, but to quote exactly what she made us do, that was in exchange for that requirement that was made orally in 1994. Things .changed during 1995. Board Member Tortora: I was just concerned that the maps we have reflect any of those changes. Diane Herold: The latest one I just handed in tonight is the final DEC map. Page 5 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Proposed site. Secretary L. Kowalski: No the stamped site. 'This one. Diane Herold: They gave us a variance for 64 feet off of this wetland Chairman: Serge, No thank you. O K So the question we have here gentlemen and ladies is where do we go with these nice people? Board Member Tortora: We will reserve decision. Chairman: We will reserve decision, but the question is where do we go from here with it? Are we going to go back, to the Building Department on the cesspool issue and the trustees, then see if there is any particular movement that has to be made, or do you want to make it subject to that, or what do you want to do? Board Member Villa: Where is the existing sanitary system? Diane Herod: It's shown on this. Board Member Villa: Oh I see. Diane Herod: It's on the front on the wetland side. Board Member Villa: It's on the wetland side. It's only one pool. Chairman: That's why they wanted it moved. Diane Herod: Yes, that's why they wanted it moved and both departments were very specific about that aspect of it. Chairman: But the point and question is Bob, if you have a lot that as deep as this one is, why couldn't you push it closer to Haywaters, to the corner. Board Member Villa: You could, but where are you going to put the well? Chairman: Leave the well where it is. Board Member Villa: You could, but the only problem is, your losing pitch all the time on your pipe pushing deeper into the ground. You have a relatively shallow system here. You only have a test hold to you. You only have about 8 feet of ground water. Chairman: They are putting a foundation in. Page 6 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: They are showing .a five pool system which is a shallow system. You might possibly get away with a three pool system with 8 feet but it doesn't save you any space. It stretches it out 8 feet between pools. It's more condensed with the five pool system. Diane Herod: Which is why I selected that. Board Member Villa: It's just that the lot is so very narrow. That's why I guess you haven't pushed it closer to Haywaters Drive, because it narrows down as it goes that way. Chairman: O K Bob So we'll make it subject to. Board Member.Villa: Subject to what. Chairman: Subject to going back to the Trustees and to the Building Department for there recommendation. Board Member Villa: If she wants the system relocated, I would say it's going to come under the inspection of the Health Department because any system that goes in is supposed to be inspected by the Health Department. Secretary L. Kowalski: Subject to Health Department as well. Of course, we all know that anyway. Board Member Villa: They might say, refer it to the town. But generally if the town is going to require it, which they basically are, because DEC is requiring it. Diane Herod: Well basically when I spoke to Mr. Brigham he felt the Health Department should not be involved. Board Member Villa: Should not be. Chairman: Because it's preexisting Bob. Diane Herod: It's preexisting and also because the town requires it. Board Member Villa: But generally they step aside when it's preexisting when that means they don't have to relocate the system. Chairman: I'm not fighting with you. Board Member Villa: When the new system is going in they generally want to look at it. Page 7 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: I'm not disagreeing with you on this, I'm just saying. Board Member Villa: I'm surprised at that decision. Secretary L. Kowalski: Are you sure there not asking for a SEQRA declaration from the Trustees? Usually that's what they do. They ask the town to proceed with SEQUA first and then they proceed after the town makes a declaration on it. Diane Herod: No. I spoke to him right after Mr. Fisher said that he wanted the Health Department because I knew it was going to be a problem on this property. Board Member Villa: Where they aware a new system was going in? Diane Herod: Yes. Secretary L. Kowalski: What would you like to do because if the Board closes the hearing. Diane Herod: Well, as you can tell by the Planning Board, the Blevins have been waiting since last May to work on this project. I would like to expedite it if I could. What I would like to suggest is perhaps, all of this be cleared up for the certificate of occupancy, that they would be allowed to proceed with at least the moving of the building. Chairman: Construction and foundation. Diane Herold: If you grant us the setbacks we would like to proceed with .that aspect. The Blevins do live there. It's just going to get into winter time and it's going to make it very difficult. Chairman: Right Board Member Villa: If the Department sticks to that position, could you get a letter from them to that extent. Diane Herold: Certainly I could go back and see him, or I could work something out. If the board grants us some extra time. I know it's an expense and the difficulty but the Department of Health services would probably would have to grin and bear it because they wouldn't make it on a buildable piece of property. Board Member Villa: They would go through the :Board of Review, but what I'm saying is, I'm surprised they wouldn't want to get involved in an inspection. ' Page 8 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Diane Herod: That's why they didn't want too because they knew. Board Member Villa: When they inspect the system, then you know you have a system that meets code specification. If you don't get it inspected you would have a pipe running uphill for all you know. Diane Herod: I think they felt that the Building Department would do the inspection. Chairman: O K Let me ask this question. Board Member Villa: None of the towns do that as far as I know. Chairman: My basic premise for the question was, that the granting of specific variances in this application should not necessarily effect, since they are relocating. So we can proceed with that. Board Member Villa: Subject to, O K I follow you. Secretary L. Kowalski: The footprint of the building would stay the same. Right. The footprint of the building would not be changed in any event. Right. Diane Herod: Well, we would like to put garage addition` on. Secretary L. Kowalski: But if you have to relocate the cesspool in a different spot, it's not going to effect the footprint that this Board has jurisdiction on. Right. Diane Herold: No. Secretary L. Kowalski: O K Chairman: O K Lets see if anyone else has anything to say. Anyone else in the audience that would like to speak in favor of this application? Anyone like to speak against this application? Any further questions from any Board Members. No. Not hearing any further questions is there anything else you would like to say. We didn't want you to sit down. Diane Herod: Thank you for your time. Chairman: No problem. Thank you. Not hearing any further questions we'll hereby make a motion closing the hearings and reserving decision until later. Board Member Villa: Second Page 9 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: All in favor say Aye. We will be hopefully working on this tonight. You are welcome to stay around or your welcome to give us a call. Thank you so much for corning in ar)d have a lovely evening. 7:52 p.m. Appl. No. 4319 - Yoshimasa Osato. This is a Variance based upon the May 18, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to construct an addition to dwelling which will have an insufficient front yard. setback at 35 Sunset Way and 3250 Cedar Beach Road, Southold.. Zone district: R 40. 30.6 setback request was confirmed with ZBA office by applicants, who will not be able to attend hearing on 7/12. Chairman: I have a copy of the Tax Map which is by American Engineering Services. The most recent date is June 23, 1994. The nature of this application is a 10 by 14 foot addition to Sunset Way. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. It is my understanding that the applicants are not here. Is there anyone in the au,dic.nce that wants to speak in favor of this application? Is there anyone that wants to speak against the application? Any questions from Board Members? Pardon me. Board Member Tortora: Do they plan to appear at a later time? Secretary L. Kowalski: No they don't. The board could make judgement based on what's on tonight. But if you have questions they would be glad to answer them if you would let them know what the questions are. Board Member Villa: Well, in there statement here, they are saying basically they are asking for about .2 and a half foot, but it's more than that. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's 4 and a half foot variance. It's 30 feet 6 inches. Chairman: It says on the building permit. Secretary L. Kowalski: On the what? Chairman: On the application actually. Our home which we purchased last year is very small, and we need to expand in order to have a more comfortable living space. Because the lot is located on a corner, it has two yards. facing the streets. How the house is situated on the property, the expansion or the deck which could fit table and chairs can only be made to the north of Cedar Beach Road front, or West Sunset Way front. The deck facing Cedar Beach would Page 10 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals not be desirable because there is a fair amount of traffic on it, and therefore would not allow the sufficient privacy in contrast. There are very few people and vehicles that pass along Sunset Way. As you can see in the photos the perimeter of the closed deck, a large distance between it and the actual street line. So the are asking for a 4 and one half foot variance. Anyone have a particular problem with this? As long as we place a restriction on this that it remain unroofed. Board Member Villa: It's not clear as to what they are going to do here, because are they going to cut a door? Chairman: Into the house. Board Member Villa: Into the house. Chairman: I would tend to think yes. Board Member Villa: There's no mention 'of that. Secretary L. Kowalski: They would have to, to get access. Board Member Villa: There's no access to it any other way. Secretary L. Kowalski: They would.- The door is not in the Boards jurisdiction, because it's not within that setback. Board Member Villa: I realize that but I'm just saying, I don't know what the house layout is.' There are questions why they couldn't put it in the back, the side yard, which would be on the south side of the house. Chairman: In the rear of the house. Well I assume they could put it in the rear of the house but they are choosing to put it in the side yard. So, I don't know. Board Member Villa: But what's the rational. If this is accessible from the rear to the side, why couldn't we do it there? Secretary L. Kowalski: Which side are you talking about, on the side. Chairman: On the rear of the house. Board Member Tortora: lie's talking about the rear. Secretary L. Kowalski: O K That's a side yard. Board Member Villa: There's no doors on it. Page 11 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: I think it's because of the layout of the house. I don't know. Did anyone get a change and go down and look at it? Board Member Villa: I looked at it, but I didn't go in the house. Board Member Dinizio: It looks to me like this is coming off the living room. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yes Board Member 'Dinizio: That follows, and I think there is probably . a bedroom in the back. Secretary L. Kowalski: I think your right Charles, I think your right. Board Member Dinizio: It could be a dining room. Board Member Villa: Could be a bedroom on -that side too, in the front. Board Member Dinizio: No, it didn't look to me like it was though. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's off the living room. Board Member Dinizio: The house is small as it is. Board Member Villa: My first house had a dormer ._i.nd there was a bedroom in the front and a bedroom in the back and one on the side. Secretary L. Kowalski: Jerry, the living room when you were down there, it didn't look like a living room. Chairman: It didn't look like a living room. Board Member Dinizio: So that was just my impression. Board Member Tortora: If they did that Bob, how far would they be from the property line. Board Member Villa: Same, same as the house. If you could put it in line with the house. Board Member Dinizio: Well, it would be the same distance from the property line. Chairman: But you have a rear yard setback at 36 feet, so you need to cut into that too. Page 13 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: If they are looking for the privacy and everything else it would almost be better to put it in back of the house. Secretary L. kowalski: I just want to mention, that they filed on June 15 and they have been waiting a month for the inspection and for the hearing. If you want to recess it for another month, if you feel it's necessary. Chairman: It's really a catch 22 situation, quite honestly. You are going to effect some things one way or another. Board Member Villa: It would be less noticeable 'in the back. Actually, if they put it off the kitchen they would probably get more use for it in the back. Chairman: But why didn't they choose to do that. Board Member Villa: I don't .know. They are not here to ask. Secretary L. Kowalski: I think we should have a meeting. Board Member Charles: It think we should have meetings every two weeks. Secretary L. Kowalski: I do too. Chairman: So what do you want to do? Board Member Villa: I don't feel comfortable addressing this without knowing all the facts. Chairman: O K Secretary L. Kowalski: What is the question so I can pass it on? Board Member Villa: Why couldn't they relocate it in the back yard. They still need a variance, but it would give them more privacy if it was off the kitchen, which is probably in the back, and they would probably get more use. Secretary L. Kowalski: They have the bedroom there, I know that. They did tell me that there was a bedroom there.. Board Member Villa: Bedroom where, in the back. Secretary L. Kowalski: Where your talking about putting it. On the westerly side yard. It's a corner lot, so that's a side yard. Board Member Villa: I realize that. Page 12 - Hearing Transcripts Regular. Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Tortora: Bob, where are you talking about because I don't. Secretary L. Kowalski: On the west yard area Board Member Tortora: This is west over here, gad he's talking about putting it here. Yes. Chairman: It's cuts into the rear property line then. Board Member Villa: It's suppose to give you more privacy, there would be more privacy than there suppose to be in the back yard anyway. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's a side yard, a corner lot. Chairman: It's actually a side yard anyway O K Board Member Charles: Well, we can give it to them but we could also ask them that question.. Chairman: How would you like to do that? Secretary L. Kowalski: Did they mention that in the letter Jerry. There is a letter. Chairman: They really don't say. Secretary L. Kowalski: Let'me see this letter. Board Member Dinizio: They said they wanted a little more room. Board Member Tortora: They are not able to attend Linda. Secretary L. Kowalski: They are in New York City and they had another commitment but Board Member Villa: I'd rather give' them a back yard variance than a side yard variance. Chairman: Does anyone have any objection to dealing with it on this basis or what do you want to do? Secretary L. Kowalski: I just want to mention. Page 14 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: O K There is a bedroom there, Board Member Charles: I would go along with Bob :in that. . Maybe we'd ask them for a layout of their house and floor plans. We could make the decision in two weeks if. you want to make it. Maybe next week. Board Member Villa: As soon as we get the interior of layout. Chairman: You mean, have a special meeting just for that. Board Member Villa: Sure Board Member Charles: If it's necessary. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's a hearing not a special. meeting. Chairman: It's a hearing, well no. Secretary L. Kowalski: No, I'm sorry: Chairman: It's a hearing, your right. You guys are forgetting one thing. O K I understand how important it is for this, but we are one secretary down, this is the summer. O K. We are not having any special meeting for this, and our only one full time person is going away the week after next. So it's not going to happen till August 9. Secretary L. Kowalski: August 9th. But it's not only that, it's just these papers have been on file for a whole mouth and not one question was raised about those floor plans. Chairman: Quite honestly, I have to be honest with you gentlemen and ladies, I don't get involved in the floor plans of the house. Secretary L. Kowalski: Maybe we should should have somebody review the files two weeks before the hearing,.. and see if there is anything else that's needed. Board Member Charles: My assumption was that they would be here we could ask those questions. Board Member Villa: That's right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Oh I know, but still if you need floor plans they may not have had the floor plan of the house with them. If you know two weeks ahead of time, we could bring them. Page 15 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Charles: I'm not asking them to prove that Linda, all I'm saying is tell me what that is. Secretary L. Kowalski: All right, No, Bob said he wanted floor plans. So let us know what we're doing. Board Member Villa: In lieu of them being here, that's the only way of doing it. Chairman: So then we'll recess until the next regular scheduled meeting and make that motion. All in favor. Aye 7:57 Appl. No. 4318 - Henry Ruthowski. This is a Variance based upon the Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector dated May 31, 1995 for the permission i,o construct an addition which will have insufficient rear yard setback and which. places accessory garage in a side yard, Article 111A, Section 100-30A.3 and Section 100-30A.4 (ref. 100-33) . Location of Property: 1.8275 Main Road, Mattituck, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-115-2-11. Zone District: R-40. Chairman: I have a copy of a sketch. Mr. & Mrs Rutkowski House has been there for many years. They are planning this addition on the rear of the house, and it is a 10 by 12 one story addition to house a mud room according to Mrs Rutkowski. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Rutkowski is there something you would like to add to the hearing? Mr. Rutkowski:' Well no. It's a simple addition. Chairman: It's one story, just as I said. Mr. Rutkowski: Yes. Chairman: It's a mud room, just as your wife has explained to us. Something you never has on the house. How old is the house? Mrs. Rutkowski: Over 40 years. Chairman: Over 40 years, O K. Mr. Rutkowski: We're getting too old to climb up and down the stairs to the laundry room, so we'd like to put a laundry room there. Chairman: O K Is there anybody in the audience tb a.t would like to speak in favor of this, other than the applicants? Anyone .like to Page 16 - Hearing Transcripts Regular. Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals speak against it? Seeing no hands, any questions of any Board Members, Jim? No, O K, Lydia, Serge. Is there anyone who would like to make a motion? Board Member Villa: I'll make a motion that we approve it as it applies. Second. Chairman: All in favor Aye. 8:04 p.m. Appl. No. 4323 - John Czartosieski . & William F. Quirk Jr. Special Exception for an Accessory. Bed and Breakfast, for the renting of not more than three (3) rooms for lodging and serving of breakfast to not more than (6) casual and transient roomers, which request is to be clearly incidental and subordinate to the principal use (single-family dwelling) use. Location of Property: 51680 Main Road Southold, NY: County Tax Map Parcel No 1000-63-6-3. Zone, District Residential-Office (RO) . . Chairman: We have a. copy of the sketch of the property. Just approximately 99 by 330. The, house of course has, as the older houses are, centered closer to the main road then it is to the center of the lot. We have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. . Mr. Czartosieski, How are you tonight, Sir? Mr. Czartosieski: Fine, thank you. Chairman: Is there something you want to add to the hearing or could we grill you about something? Mr. Czartosoeski: First I would like to extend a personal thank you to Linda, for getting the application on this months agenda. Thank you Linda. Secretary L. Kowalski: Oh your welcome. Mr. Czartosieski: I have been a life long resident of Southold and I have a vested interest in not only preserving the rural and rustic beauty of the community, but also adding to the economic prosperity of the area. I think we all know and realize that there is a definite need for rentable rooms, on our little corner of the world. What my partner and I have done systemically, is taken .a old house, it's about 100 years old. To say the least, it was a challenge restoring it to it's original beauty. We have added ample parking around the barn, towards the back yard. One thing that is not indicated on the use of the property or maybe the floor plan, I'm not sure where it would be, is the flood lights for the . guests so they could find there way around to the entrance, the rear entrance. The flood lights are located on the southeast corner of the house. As Page 17 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals there is also a light directly above the rear entrance of the house. Other than that, I just feel as though I'm fulfilling a need in the community as well as helping promote tourism. Chairman: Great. While your standing up there, does anyone have any further questions of this applicant? Bob? Board Member Villa: Yes I was there', I don't remember.. Is there a doorway to your bedroom from upstairs, other than the stairs coming up from the kitchen area? Mr. Czartosieski: No. Board Member Villa: Because I did see a note here from Linda to you saying, this will require access from the remainder 'of the dwelling. Secretary L. Kowalski: You have an outside, iuside stairway- Right. r Chairman: That never did have an access, did it? Mr. Czartosieski: It wasn't there. Chairman: That never did have access did it, from upstairs into that second area where the maids quarters originally was? Mr. Czartosieski: Yes, but years and years ago. Chairman: Years ago. O K Secretary L. Kowalski: Years ago. Board Member Villa: That inside stairway is in use. Mr. Czartosieski: Yes. Board Member Villa: O K. That's the only way you can get into your room. Mr.Czartosieski: Yes. Chairman: O K Jim, No, I don't have any questions at all. Lydia, your excusing yourself, yes I am. I just have two .litters which are in the record which I will mention. Secretary L. Kowalski: Lydia, are you excusing yourself. You have to speak louder into the mike, so I can get you. Page 18 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Serge, no questions. O K, let's just briefly go back to the parking plan. Have you decided how you are going to set up the parking plan? Mr. Czartosieski: Yes, Bob had mentioned that people drive around the barn and park facing the house, next to each other. Then they could get into the house through the rear entrance. Chairman: O K You'll show that on some' kind of a plan for us so we can make it a part of the permanent file. Mr. Czartosieski: Sure Chairman: O K Now the flood lights are shielded to the property that your referring too. They are not showing on other property. Mr. Czartosieski: They are shinning directly down towards the parking, which is in the center of the property. Chairman: O K Mr. Czartosieski: There. are bushes and trees surrounding the parking. Chairman: O K Great. I don't have any further questions of this applicant. I will say for the record, that it is one of the nicest tours of a house I have ever been too. Really. You did an absolutely magnificent job. Is their anybody that would like to offer a resolution to this? Board Member Villa: I'll move. Chairman: Seconded it by Mr. Villa. Secretary L. Kowalski: He's approving it right? Board Member Villa: As applied. Secretary L. Kowalski: You have to say that. Sorry. Mr. Czartosieski: Thank you. Chairman: All in favor say Aye. 8:10 p.m. Phillip Cardinale, Esq. and/or Catherine Mesiano Inc. ,as agent: App; . No. 4321 - Frank Palumbo, as Contract Vendee (Owner: County of Suffolk/Mary Murphy. This is a Variance based upon the June 15, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to construct dwelling with an Page 19 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals insufficient front yard setback and within 100 feet of the Long Island Sound bluff or bank. Also requested is a Variance under New York Town Law, Section 280-A for minimum improvements for access by fire vehicles over a private right-of-way or easement Area. Commencing at a point along the north side of Oregon Road, Cutchogue, along the westerly side of lands of Bokina, over lands now or formerly Baxter and others identified as Lot 1.9, Block 1, Section 72, thence extending northerly approximately 1035 feet to a point, thence running in an easterly direction approximately 375 feet to the applicant's parcel of land identified as Lot. 3.3, Block 2, section 73, District 1000, all as shown by survey dated June 7, 1995 prepared for Frank & Louise Palumbo. Chairman: I should point out for the people in the public this property at one time was as commonly held both by the applicant Mary Murphy and by Suffolk County. ' I believe it was seized at one time by Suffolk County for non payment of taxes. I have no idea if it has been returned at this point but it will be. There was a time on the application. I have a copy of the survey produced by Roderick Van Tyle pe most recent - date August, I'm sorry December 19, 1988 indicating, again produced by Roderick Van Tyle proposed dwelling footprint 60x60 approximately 25 feet from right-of-way and approximately 45 feet from the top Or the bank. If I didn't give you a date I will, June 7, 1995. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the areas. Is there anyone that wants to heard? All right. Is there someone that wants to speak in favor of this application? Anyone that wants to speak against this application? We have a request to recess this for the next scheduled meeting. Does anyone have an objection to that? Ladies and Gentlemen of the Board. Board Member Villa: No Chairman: O K Board Member Villa: Is it possible to get a path or something cut through there, so we could get to the bluff? Chairman: I think the best thing to do is, it's not a patronizing statement. I'm reading again the soil and water evaluation. Board Member Villa: I did too, and I was there No way was I going to tangle with that. Chairman: We have had significant hearings with Miss Johnson on the easterly side. My suggestion would be to call her and tell her you were coming up. If you get no answer, walk on the property and identify yourself. Page 20 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting .of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: She won't mind. She already mentioned it. chairman: She's very very nice. We have had sufficient, unbelievable, maybe you remember some of them, applications over the 280A action. Board Member Villa: I was reading that soil thing too. Chairman: This applicant is going to have to subscribe to some of this, or they are going to have -to substantially, they are going to clip the house anyway. But there is going to . be a substantial adherence I would say, if they want my vote to that. Board Member Villa: Yes, definitely. Chairman: I have no idea what they are paying for the property and at this point I don't really care. But it's going to cost them a phenomenal amount of money for erosion control on this piece of property. Board Member Villa: Yes. From the report we wouldn't be doing them a service approving this thing the way it is, because they are no going to have a house very long. Chairman: That's right. Board Member: Neither will the neighbors, eventually.. . Chairman: O K Hearing no further comment, 1 . make a motion recessing the hearing until the next regular scheduled meeting. All in favor Aye. 8:16 Appl. No. 4317 - Edwin and Donald Tonyes. . This is a request for a Special Exception under Article 1X, Section 100-91B, for permission.. to convert existing building in this Hamlet-Business (HB) Zone District from single-family dwelling to multiple-dwelling, or alternatively two-family dwelling with retail store. The subject lot with existing house contains a total area of 10,615 sq. ft.. and is identified as 1000-62-1-13 containing approximately 10,500 sq.ft. in area which is being offered in this project to increase the available land area. Both lots are located on the north side of the Main Road, Southold, and are in the HB Zone District. Chairman: We have a copy of a survey produced by Peconic surveyors dated July 11, 1985 indicating a piece of property which is approximately 60.50 feet, so I guess that's 16 and one half on Main State Road or Route 25 by a variable 183.91. It tapers down to 54.12 in the back. The separate lot we have is by Tax Map. I have Page 21 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this. and surrounding properties in the area. Would someone like to be heard concerning this: Mr. Tonyas, how are you tonight. Sir. Is there something else you would like to further state. You wore gracious in showing us the place last Saturday. Mr. Tonyes: Of course I'm supporting the special exception. I feel that the Board should allow this special exception because I appealing the HB district code. The property does apply to our special exception. Of course, there are a few things that have to be done. Wherever we have to address any issue that comes before us, we would be happy too, immediately. But I also want to add. We purchased "this property in 1987. We've had some good ideas with the property back then. But because we got hit with a recession, things didn't go the way we planned too. We have a mortgage that exceeds the value of the property. If we wanted to turn arotind and sell the property and pay off the mortgage, we would have to take out a loan to help finish paying off the mortgage. We find that if we do not generate income from this piece of property, it's a real big problems. If you ask of proof of that right now, anything you want I can give it to you. Chairman: O K MR. Tonyes: I'd appreciate anything you could do with that. Chairman: This is a private money mortgage that you have with the prior owner, or is it a bank mortgage Mr. Tonyes: No, it's a bank mortgage. Chairman: What did the house look like in 1987 when ,you bought it? Mr. Tonyes: Well, it was run down quite a bit. We had to restore a boiler. It was the front. It was an overhang in the front of the house, which probably I could look back at, from au old picture. I guess, I don't even know when it was built. It probably was built in 1725. But this overhang in the front was falling down and it was kind of dangerous, so we had to remove that. We rebuilt the whole front of the house. We did the heating system. We added extra electrical lines. We took the old fuse panel out and added new circuit breakers. We did as much as we could. Anything that we did do, applied to the codes and anything that we are going to do, that you ask us to do, we'll comply to the codes as well. We're constantly improving the property. In fact, over $100,000. dollars in improvements on that property. Chairman: Was this property ever used for business or was it non conferment. Page 22 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Tonyes: The only way you could prove that, we met an old lady 90 years old last summer. She tells us stories that there used to be a butcher there way back, a plumber there. Someone was living down there for awhile. But there's no records of this. Chairman: What did you find downstairs wheii you actually purchased the property? Was just an open room? Mr. Tonyes: The floor was rotting downstairs and had a smell of. The way they did the house back then, the would take a 4 by 4 wood and plant logs and lay a ,pine floor right over it. Maybe they redid this a hundred years ago, the only way to figure it out. The smell, the toxic smell of the house that was so bad, you coo-ldn't rent it to anybody even someone living on the second floor. First floor and second floor. Chairman: You mean, the smell of rotting wood. Mr. Tonyes: I bad to dig the rotting wood up for a cement floor on the bottom: So this way, =you wouldn't have this wood on dirt. Chairman: O K Mr. Tonyes: Most of that work I did by myself, with no help. Chairman: Good. There were no extensions put on the house. The size of the house is existing as it exists. Mr. Tonyes: Exactly the same as it always was, as we bought it. Chairman: As you bought it. Mr. Tonyes: I would have to say probably about 65 years ago there was a bathroom extension. I'm sure you see pictures up there. It's about 6 by 6, it's on the side. Well, they never had a bathroom before. They used to have outhouses way back then so I think that's probably the newest part of the house. That little bathroom section there. But, from records those records got burnt in a fire I guess, in late eighteen hundreds in Riverhead. It's exactly where the main part of the house was built. Dating back, say 1725, the newer section of the house which would be the back part of the house, that would be about 150 years old Chairman: Mr. Villa. Board Member Villa: My concern, I don't have a problem with what your proposing. My problem is granting something and not knowing 7-1 Page 23 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals if you meet the codes. In other words, when you get into two family and residents or three family you fall into different housing codes, and different . fire codes. I would like to be sure, ahead of any decision that we have here, that that building meets codes or that you can make it meet the codes. I don't want to grant something and then have the Building Department come in and say, there is no way you can do it. I would rather have that up front before we can make a decision. Mr. Tonyes: You. have to also bear in mind., that at the time the house was built, people living there two hundred fifty years ago, that, I don't know what the codes were back then. I don't have a book of codes. But, if the Building Inspector says do this, put this here, put this here, we'll do that. We'll comply to any of the alterations. Board Member Villa: No. You've got a 7 foot ceiling upstairs with sloping ceilings, besides beyond that. Mr. Tonyes: You mean, the bedroom upstairs. Board Member Villa: That's right. I don't know whether that is going to meet any kind of codes. I would not feel cot.afortable making a decision whether this can meet codes. Chairman: What do you propose, Bob? Board Member Villa. I would like to have someone make an inspection from the fire and multiple housing sections to see if.. this is going to meet codes, or are they going to need variances. Chairman: You're referring to someone in house or outer house? Board Member Villa: Whichever. Secretary L. Kowalski: Well, in house doesn't do it.. I've already checked. That's because they don't know what the specification are for the houses that are there today. You may have to come up with a building construction plan of the house as it exists, to show what codes it met when it was built or what it is. Board Member Villa: It was built as a single family or it's only approved a single family. Right. Chairman: You understand what we're talking about here. Mr. Tonyes. I understand exactly what you said. Chairman: No way do we want to make a decision without having. Page 24 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Tonyes: Absolutely. Chairman: We're not tearing the place apart, we're not criticizing it. We're not doing anything. That's what Bob Villa wants. O K So what we would suggest you do, get a hold of the local engineer, let him have a look at it and evaluate it on that basis. Board Member Tortora: Only one thing, the other thing here is, you're asking for either-or. Mr. Tonyes: I want you to understand something. Board Member Tortora: You're asking for either two family, or two family and a retail use, or multi family use. The bulking parking schedule is different for both. I don't know what I'm looking at right now. The bulking parking schedule is different for both. Also, your talking about 20,000 sq. ft. minimum for each use in this zone, so I'm sure what we'd be granting. It would depend on which ones you are going to go with. Chairman: I think this could be addressed also from the engineering evaluation. Mr. Tonyes: But I did clearly mention that at this time, that something has to be done, because if I don't generate income from this property, or if I cannot continue as I am now, gonera.ting income from this property, I won't have to bother coming here anymore. My point was: The reason way I went from A to B, like your saying there, I would prefer two family with a store. I think I could generate the most income out of it that way. If the Board says O K, lets go three families. You want to incorporate that piece of property on the side and well, I'll go along with whatever you want. Board Member Lydia: That's what we're trying to say to you. If it's going to be two families and a store, there is a whole set of different parking requirements, than they would . be for three families, for multiple families. Mr. Tonyes: I understand. Board Member Tortora: I'm not sure what application is before us at this point. .. Chairman: Let's let the engineer look at it, and the engineer can refer to that situation. Then they can make a determination what way they want to go with that. Page 25 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Tortora: And either one is going. to require a site plan approval, and it's multiple family your in for site plan waver or you have to get some kind of a decision. Chairman: You want a outside PE. Board Member Tortora: And if it's retail, same thing. Chairman: Anything you suggest? Board Member Tortora: That's supposed to be the recommended number. Chairman: There are several engineers in town. I can say three. Secretary L. Kowalski: You're not supposed to recommend any. Mr. Tonyes: O K Secretary L Kowalski: We're not permitted too. Mr. Tonyes: O K But if you could give me a lisp. that we could recognize, we just don't want to get an engineer, and someone say, who is this guy, we don't know him. Chairman: Whoever you decide to get, O K, just have him call me or Mr. Villa and we will have him review or her review that particular area that we want addressed before the next hearing, and then we'll have everything and we'll be able to go from there. All right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Could I have the name, of the other gentlemen who are with Mr. Tonyes today for the record please? I'm Ed. Tonyes Jr. Oh I know, Donald and Edward Sr. . O K. Thank you. Chairman: Give him a page out of the yellow book, I guess in the town. Secretary L. Kowalski: She works for an attorney, they can check this. Board Member Villa: A engineer can do the same thing. Chairman: Sure. Mr Tonyes: I do have some architect, which I had some work that we had done in the past. Chairman: Right. Page 26 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Now, you can't do this. You have to address this to the codes, specific codes that fall into being when you go, like from like a two family to a three family. Mr. Tonyes: Right Board Member Villa: They require certain floor areas with minimum ceiling heights. You have fire codes that fall into place. You have all kinds of things that get involved here. I just don't want to be in a position ''here of saying to you, O K, we're going to grant it and then find out, that you can't meet anything. It wouldn't make sense. I'd like to know up front, that you can meet all the codes and then we can address what your proposing and tsake it whichever way we think is best. Mr. Tonyes: O K Chairman: Sure, but if you have any questions on what we want the engineer to look at, have him call us. Mr. Tonyes: O K Chairman: All right, and myself and Mr. Villa. or any of us will refer him to what we think we want. Secretary L. Kowalski: We'll mark mainly fire codes and ' zoning codes. Chairman: Right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Is there anything else we could mention today? Board Member Villa: It's multiple residency codes, building codes. Board Member Tortora: Depending on what use. What kind of area variances you need. Secretary L. Kowalski: Building and fire codes are the same thing, same codes. Chairman: We just suggested that you use someone that's familiar with the Town of Southold codes. Mr. Tonyes: O K Chairman: All right. Preferably not someone from New York City. I'm being facetious of course. Page 27 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. . Tonyes: Sure. Chairman: O K, when your 85 miles away, you don't kind of understand some of this stuff that we deal with. Because some of the stuff out here is older, as in this case. This is an older house. I'll refer to it as very old. It doesn't look very old, but I mean it is very old. The main structure. O K Board Member Tortora: It's not a artifact. Secretary L. Kowalski: It should be someone licensed in Suffolk County. Chairman: We thank you though for your honesty aiid your courtesy in showing us the place. We really appreciate that 111d we'll see you back on August 9. If you have any questions, please give us a call. Thank you. Mr. Tonyes: O K Thank you. Chairman: Is there anyone else, just 'one second Joe, want to speak in favor of the favor of the application? Anyone want to speak against? Board Member Tortora: Well, what I wonder is, if you're holding this over, can I hold my comments? Chairman: Surely. Board Member Tortora: I'll speak at the next: meeting, I'd rather,I'm tired. Chairman: Good. I don't mean good, it's good that you will be able to come back. I have to watch what I say, sometimes. O K Hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion to recess the hearing until the next scheduled meeting. Board Member Villa: Second it. Chairman: All in .favor say Aye. Thank you again for coming in. 8:34 P.M. Fairweather-Brown Arthitects: Appl. #4322 - William Gordon. Variance based upon the May 24, 1995 Notice of Disapproval of the Building Inspector where applicant is requesting permission to construct garage and deck additions which will have insufficient front yard setcacks. Ref: Article 111A, Section 100-30A.3. Location of Property: 1030 Broadwaters Road, Cutchogue; County Tax Map District 1000, Section 104, Block 9, Lot 1. Page 28 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: I have a copy of a survey produced by John Mentzer, which is Peconic surveyors. It is dated May 4, 1994 indicating the nature of the present dwelling as it exists. : Lets get to the site plan. I have a site plan produced by registered Architect Robert I. Brown dated, June 20, 1995 indicating the nature of this application, which is existing attached garage to be removed, proposed. relocated garage attached and proposed wood deck, as mentioned, on the rear of the dwelling. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody that wants to be heard? How are, you tonight Sir? Mr. Robert Brown: Fine thank you. How are you? My name is Robert Brown arthitect for Mrs Gordon. Chairman: Do you want to explain what your proposing here? Mr. Robert Brown: First, I'd like to thank Mr. Villa for pointing out to the Board that arthitects are qualified to help previous people. Chairman: You didn't give me, your card, did you? Mr. Robert Brown: If I had one with me. Board Member Villa: Having dealt with both for many many years, I know that was stressed from very early on that Architects. Mr. Robert Brown: Architects are always very resentful anyway. But that's another story. My client, in this case bought a house with a preexisting condition of a garage that, as you can see from the survey, overlaps the property line to the west. The purpose behind the moving of the garage which we need for a variance, the garage obviously doesn't already conform to the front yard setback. In order to move the garage, and to minimize the impact of making it smaller as we move it, to get it entirely on to Mr. Gordon's property. But obviously we still have a front yard setback problem in this case. With regard to the deck, to the east, the condition there is that the property line east boarders a road, which as far as we can tell, would and should never be actually be built as a road. But according to the Building Department, and correctly so, that becomes. another front yard. We've designed the deck to 15 foot, which would be appropriate side yard setback for that zone. Hoping that the Board will allow us to treat that side of the property, the east side, as a side yard considering the state of the road, Chairman: Good. Mr. Robert Brown. That's basically it. Page 29 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Let's jump right into the questions here while we have you standing. Board Member Villa: The existing structure that's close to the road there that's a garage, what is that used for now? Mr. Robert Brown: As a garage. Board Member Villa: Can you actually get 'cars into that? Mr. Robert Brown: One car. Board Member Villa: One car. Mr. Robert Brown: Yes. Board Member Villa: O K Mr. Robert Brown: That's what it will be designed for. It's larger than a one car garage, .but it'.s not, big enough for two cars. Board Member Villa: What's the size of this structure that's going to be put there now? It shows at 24 feet existing and there's no dimension on the land that I have. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm afraid I didn't bring my ruler. Chairman: We can get you a scale ruler if you would like. Mr. Robert Brown: If you could. It's approximately 20 by 20. Secretary L. Kowalski: 20 by, I'm sorry I didn't get that. Board Member Villa: My question is, why if they had a one car garage, I couldn't see how he could use that old structure for two, why can't we call this one down. Mr. Robert Brown: If in fact, what doesn't show on this, is the living space projects into the garage. So that what you see as garage square footage is not entirely garage. Board Member Villa: So you're putting, your actually enlarging the house that coming in. Mr. Robert Brown: No. The house is the size that it is and it currently projects into the existing garage. If you go inside the garage, you don't really have too. Page 30 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: All right. But your showing on your plan with no dimension, your showing a little bit of a. wing there which I'm assuming is the part that your talking about, going .into the garage the existing garage now. Then your showing a boxed structure, which is the garage. How big is that going to be, 20 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: We'll, the structure that was showing 20 feet by 20, but. in fact part of the existing living space already projects I believe, the 4 foot into the 20 foot of the proposed garage. Board Member Villa: No, it goes 4 feet into the 24 feet that's existing on the wing of the house. If you look at the survey, when you look at the front of the garage it's 24 feet existing right now. Mr. Robert Brown: Right. Board Member Villa: Now your leaving 4 feet of that, and then your adding another 20 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: " Well 0 K. I understand what your saying. Board Member Villa: Right. Mr. Robert Brown: We're hoping to do a little' work inside there perhaps extend the living space. Board Member Villa: So your still trying to extend into that. Mr. Robert Brown: That's tentative. Board Member Villa: So your really not adding a 20 foot garage., your adding a 20 foot addition and part of it is going to be the house. Mr. Robert Brown: Potentially. But honestly, we haven't' gotten to that phase of work. Board Member..Villa: Because, if your trying to improve something and we've only got, plus or minus 5 feet from the property line on that corner, nothing says that we can't cut from that 20 feet back say 16 or 14 and it's plenty for a garage. Chairman: In other words, the existing. Mr. Robert Brown: Theoretically, we could do that. To be honest with you, I might have some for what it's worth, esthetic concerns about the propositions of the garage that size with the house but it's certainly possible. Page 31 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: You only have an 8 foot door in the garage, so if you have 14 feet you still have some. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm talking about. Board Member Villa: Yes, I know what your saying, but I'm looking at a nonconforming use here. Mr. Robert Brown: Understood. Chairman: Were you saying, that when you open that garage door, you have a dead wall in front of you which is actually an extension of the house into the garage as it stands now. Mr. Robert Brown: Not in front of you, but immediately to your right there's an entrance into the garage. Chairman::: O..K Great, I understand. Board Member Dinizio: I think it could be made the size of the wing there and be done with it. As long as a car fits in there, what's the difference. Board Member Villa: We are here to grant minimal kind of relief if we can. So I don't object, if he's only getting one car in there now, that's all he's looking for is really a. one car gar<ige. Chairman: He can only use it for one car. That's all lie can use it for now. Board Member Tortora: If that's what you intend to use it for in the future one car, or as an addition for the house. Mr. Robert Brown: Well, I don't think we would ever be able to get two cars into it. So it would be one car and a. pretention addition to the house. Chairman: O K Serge, No questions. O K While we have you standing there, we do not have a great deal of public left but we'll ask the questions anyone like to speak. Would their be anybody that would like to in favor of this application? Anyone would like to speak against the application? Notice I didn't ask for any hands in between, we just rolled right into the second portion of it. All right. Seeing no further questions, no further comments, is there anything else the Board Members would like to discuss with this gentlemen? • Page 32 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Robert Brown: May I just make a comment, about t:he garage. Chairman: Surely. Mr. Robert Brown: In looking at it, if 'we were to push the existing garage, just straight forward, to get it off the neighbors property, the difference between where the corner would fall from the street is not very different from where we're proposing. I just: want to point that out. We weren't trying to take as much as we could. We were just trying to take a reasonable. Board Member Villa: Oh I grant you that, but we're also here to grant variance if minimal or minimize them if we can. Chairman: Yeah. Board Member Villa: Everybody tries to get as much as they can. But, I look at this. Mr. Robert Brown: Could:. 1. propose, a; compromise where we would maintain the line, the' southern most line of the garage and move the garage over. Chairman: And what footage would that be? Mr. Robert Brown: On a scale that would be possible .18 feet_ Board Member Dorizio: And you can live with that. In other words, you won't be going any further towards Broadwaters. Mr. Robert Brown: No further towards Broadwaters than the existing garage does, except it would be a little more easterly., Board Member Dinizio: What's that about, 2 feet, three feet? Mr. Robert Brown: Yes Secretary L. Kowalski: Caii you draw us a little sketch on there, so we can submit it to the file as an alternative? Chairman: You can draw it on our sketch. Secretary L. Kowalski: Can you draw it on our copy. That would be great. Thank you. Chairman: Why don't you, if it takes you a little longer than you wanted, we can go into the next hearing? Board Member Dinizio: Why can't you do this? Page 33 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of. July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Tortora: Follow the existing footprint on the southern line. Mr. Robert Brown: That's what I'm trying to do. Does that make sense. Chairman: Now that's 18 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: Yes. Secretary L. Kowalski: Could you write those figures on there please, so we have them. I do require them for the file. Board Member Dinizio: Well, I think that's part of the 16 feet. Chairman: The deck is not used, it that correct. It's an open deck. Mr. Robert Brown: It's an open deck. Board Member Tortora: Is it a screened porch? Secretary L. Kowalski: Is it 22 feet. Mr. . Robert Brown: Northwest corner of the house, is probably a screened porch. Board Member Tortora: This is a screened porch here. If you proposed a deck here. Mr. Robert Brown: This is the back wall that notches out. Board Member Dinizio: There's no variance. He's entitled to that, he's entitled to that. Board Member. Tortora: Are you going to remove the stairs here? Mr. Robert Brown: Yes Board Member Dinizio. If he doesn't put it on the ground, he's entitled to that. Board Member Villa: If he doesn't put it on the ground, he'll continue using it. Board Member Dinizio: Right. Board Member. Tortora: What's happening to the screened porch? Your enclosing the screened porch. Page 34 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of' July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board. of Appeals Mr. Robert Brown: Yeah The screened porch is theoretically enclosed. Chairman: It's enclosed already. Mr: Robert Brown: What we're doing is providing a door from the porch to the deck. Chairman: If somebody get,natty out there they can go to the porch. Board Member Tortora: A screened porch is going to be enclosed. Chairman: While I have you here Sir, give me the setback. I'm showing 9 feet. Would you concur, about 8 and one lialf. Would you say? So we're going for 5 and a half to 8 and one hi f. Mr. Robert Brown: To be honest with you, I'd call it about 7 and one half. Board Member Tortora: What about the other corn ..r there? What would that be. Chairman: It's about 2 and one half. Board Member Tortora: No, the other corner. Oh I see. Board Member Dinizio: There's no getting around :it. If you say it's going to be 22 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: That actually would not change from the existing. Board Member Dinizio: I don't know, I just think why function when you have a foundation. . Chairman: Thank you, see how convenient that was. We got our ruler back. Mr. Robert Brown: Next time I'll bring my own. Chairman: Does anyone have any objection to this is lie holds that setback, it's exactly, it goes from 5 and one half to seven and a half, we just measured. Board Member Dinizio: What did he do on there? Chairman: Holding the existing, going from 20 to 18, I assume that is, right. • Page 35 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: Your saying, he needs this anyway. Board Member Villa: Yeah. Board Member Dinizio: Right. What's wrong with that? He's entitled to this. He's not entitled to this form overhear. I'll agree to that. But he is entitled to this. Board Member Villa: I don't .agree to anything. Chairman: You don't agree to any of it. Board Member Villa: No, I'm saying that .I don't Agree that he's entitled to anything. Board Member Dinizio: I'm not getting involved Hi asking for it. If he doesn't ask for it, we can't tell him to take it out of there. . Board Member Villa: Someone could tell him to take it out because it's over the line. Board Member Dinizio: He could cut this off over the line but he could still keep this. Board Member Villa: If he cuts it off over the lime then he can't use it because it can't get anything into it. Board Member Dinizio: He could put a building there. Chairman: Could I propose, that based upon the new survey that for. Mr. Brown, that we allow him to hold the original setback which was approximately 7 and a half feet. And allow him to move this building onto his clients property and we grant the deck at 15 feet provided that it remain unroofed and not part of the actual living area of the property. Does anybody have any true objection to that? Board Member Dinizio: No Chairman: It gives them an 18 foot garage. Board Member Villa: It's an 18 foot garage. Chairman: Yeah Is that correct? Mr. Robert Brown: Yeah Page 36 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July. 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: Was the original setback 7 and a half feet? Chairman: I believe it was. Yes Mr. Robert Brown: It's on the survey. Board Member Villa: The original survey here shows. 9.8. Chairman: Oh O K Board Member Dinizio: We're the hell do you see that. Secretary L. Kowalski: 9.8 Chairman: 9.8 That's why I thought it was a little more than that . Mr. Brown. Mr. Robert Brown: The problem is, if I have to keep the 9.8 I really don't have the depth I would need for a reason�.z.ble garage. Board Member Villa: I know, that's why I was wrong to go to 16 feet and let. you have whatever that came out to be Because you were going from 9.8 which is basically 10 to 5. You were halfing what you had. Mr. Robert Brown: Right. I'm asking for 18 becau ;c: that's the line of the existing garage. Board Member Villa: Yes, but your moving it from the buildingout three foot over the line and you keep a couple of fei:t free, so your moving it 5 feet forward. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's wider. Board Member Villa: So your cutting . Mr. Robert Brown: I'm not following you. Board Member Villa: You were 3 feet over the line with the existing garage, right, the same depth basically 20 feet and your keeping.like 2 feet off the line, the new one right. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm moving it to the other side. Chairman: At it's closest point it's 2 and one half feet. Board Member Villa: So your coming forward like 5 feet so your halving that existing distance from Broadwaters Road. Page 37 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: On that corner. Board Member Villa: On that corner, so do you see what I'm saying. Mr. Robert Brown: I see what your saying but I. Board Member Villa: But the footprint isn't there. The footprint is 9.8. If he sticks to 9.8 I'll live with it. But he can't, he's going to 5. Mr. Robert Brown: I agree, but I'm asking now to go to 7 and one Half. Chairman: He's now asking to go to 7 and one half. Board Member Dinizio: So grant him the 7 and one half. Mr. Brown: As a compromise. Chairman: That was my notion. Board Member Villa: 7 and one half. Mr. Brown: If it doesn't work out to 16. Board Member Villa: Your not going to cut 2 .feet off of that and go from 5 to 7 and one half. Mr. Brown: May I show you the plan that I did. Chairman: If you need the ruler back, we'll give it to you. Mr. Robert Brown: What I'm proposing to do here is to maintain this existing southerly foundation and simply cut that back to 18 feet and bring the erosion. Board Member Villa: But your not telling us what going to be there then, it's not. Mr. Robert Brown: This would be 7 and one half feet. Board Member Villa: I would doubt that that's going to be the case. Chairman: He's got to cut it back. Mr. Robert Brown: As far as to here. Chairman: It's 7 foot 6 inches and that's what he's got to cut it back Page 38 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Your going to cut 2 feet off and your going to go from 5 to 7 and one half feet and two feet. Board Member Dinizio: Well just grant him the 7 and a half feet and he'll have to deal with it. Board Member Villa: He might be sorry because if we say 7 and a half feet. Chairman: If he's sorry, he'll"have to come back. Board Member Villa: He might end up with a 14 foot garage. Chairman: He'll have to pay one hundred and fifty dollars and come back, that's all. Mr. Robert Brown: Well. Secretary L. Kowalski: Just don't build it closer in case it's denied. Board Member Villa: It will be. You know what I'm saying, if your only moving two feet there's no way that your going to pick up 2 and a half feet on that line. It's only 2 feet here and your going to pick up 2 and half feet that way. I don't see it happening. . Mr. Robert Brown: Well, I mean, .if I had to make that 17 and one half to get some. Board Member Villa: You would have too. If your going to keep that at 7 and one half, your not going to end up with a 20 foot deck. Mr. Robert Brown: But we're making this an arbitrary number, what I'm trying to accomplish is maintaining the existing southerly wall. Board Member Villa: Yeah, but what I'm saying is, your keeping that southerly wall in the garage and your coming 2 and a half feet here, which is what you're saying and you're corning 20.3 feet here or 20 feet, what are you going to be here. We don't, know what it's going to be. I doubt very much if that's going to be 7 and one half feet. You're saying, you want to maintain that line and if we maintain that line we might end up with 5 and one half feet. Mr. Robert Brown: No, I'm confident of these numbers. Board Member Villa: I'd like to see. Page 39 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Robert Brown: It might be 7 or 7 and one half., but what I'd like to do is move the garage forward 5 feet and maintain the southern property line, the southern wall. Board Member Villa: If you people want to pass it with 7 and one half feet off the property line, I'll pass it. Chairman: I don't care because the gentlemen will have to come back if they can't build it. Board Member Dinizio: Well he agreed to it. Chairman: Yeah Board Member Villa: That's what I'm saying . Board Member Dinizio: Don't come back, tear it down.. Chairman: Just make the garagge, smaller ,that's all. Secretary L. Kowalski: Just don't go closer. Mr. Robert Brown: You're asking me to guarantee 7 and one half feet that I just scaled off a blueprint. Really what. I'm trying to accomplish is maintaining that southerly wall, which exists. Chairman: Right Mr. Robert Brown: To be able to use perhaps, part of the foundation. Board Member Villa: .I'd like to see you draw it out on a large scale and show us exactly what you've got. Secretary L. Kowalski: That would solve the problem I guess or questions that might be in anybody's mind. Chairman: Well, we can pass it at 7 and one half feel. and then. Board Member Dinizio: Pass it at 7. Give him 6 inclies. Board Member Tortora: Yeah, , but if it doesn't work then he has to come back and pay another fee. Board Member Dinizio: No he doesn't. Chairman: As long as he can get a car in there with the addition that's off the house, they don't care. Board Member Dinizio: That's what I'm saying. Page 40 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Well it depends if it's going to be a Honda or a Mercury. Board Member Dinizio: Well my assumption is, that Mr. Brown can make that decision. Chairman: Anybody that lives out here, isn't going (.o get a car in that garage anyway. It's only going to be used for storage. Mr. Robert Brown: Right, most likely. Board Member Villa: Well. Secretary L. Kowalski: What would you like to do? Mr. Robert Brown: I'm not sure what my choices are. Secretary L. Kowalski: Well the board can recess it and wait for you to submit a plan. Board Member Dinizio: : We could' do it next month. Secretary L. Kowalski: We could give a confirmatio ii to the exact setbacks that you are requesting as a alternative o.e- the board can make a decision based on your request for 7 and ei half feet and assure the board that you won't have to come back. Mr. Robert Brown: I don't understand this, have to come 'back. Secretary L. Kowalski: Well, that you won't ask for a further reduction. Mr. Robert Brown: I don't mind you asking, as long as you don't mind me saying no after. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's what we mean. Chairman: Why should you pay the. money if you're going to say no. Mr. Robert Brown: Well, hay listen. In the interest of my clients time, as much as anything. Chairman: You want to get this done. Mr. Robert Brown: I really in their interest want to get it done. Secretary L. Kowalski: Twenty Minutes. Mr. Robert Brown: If I had a sense that the board would pass 7 and one half feet, I'd take it Page 41 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Good Mr. Robert Brown: Take it and run. Chairman: Good. That was my motion Gentlemen and Ladies Board Member: I will second it. Board Member Villa: The garage is only 18 feet deep. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm fully anticipating the garage 18 feet deep. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's a setback that we're. Mr. Robert Brown: Oh you mean. Board Member Villa: I'm saying deep. That's the distance that's critical in this thing, it's that one. Mr. Robert Brown. Well, - if that's the case in the interest of proceeding, that will be my responsibility. For something of this magnitude, I can't imagine speak justifiably to my client while we have to recess it, and do additional work and we're talking about a matter of inches. Board Member Villa: I'm saying that. Mr. Robert Brown: I would take it and run, quite honestly. That's what I have to do. Chairman: That was my motion. Secretary L. Kowalski: We have a motion and a second. Board Member Villa: What's the motion? Chairman: The motion is not to encroach any closer than the existing garage, 7 foot 6 inches. O K, closes 2 and on half feet to the closes property line, which is on the, this says what Board Member Tortora: 2 and a half feet, what did he: say. Board Member Villa: So what you're 'really doing is reducing the existing setback from 9.8 to 7.5. Chairman: That is correct. 7.6 Seven feet 6 inches. Mr. Robert Brown 7 and one half feet. Page 42 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: You ,are going to have 2 and one half feet off the westerly property. Chairman: That is correct. Board Member Tortora: No wider than 18 feet. Chairman: I don't care how wide it is. Secretary L. Kowalski: We don't go with the dimensions because he may have to revive the dimensions to meet the setback. Mr. Robert Brown: We're just not going to be able to go any further Secretary L. Kowalski: That's right. Chairman: That the deck remain unroofed and not pert of the actual living area of the house. Mr. Robert Brown: So you can figure that out with O.ie directions. . Secretary L. Kowalski: Yeah Chairman: So again, Aye. Secretary L. Kowalski: Bob did you vote? We have four in favor. Board Member Villa: I'm reluctant, but I'll vote for it but I still think he's going to have problems. Chairman: U K So we got motion passed. Board Member Villa: The next time would you put all dimensions on it. Like on your deck, your missing dimensions, your missing diihentions on the garage. Mr. Robert Brown: I was only interested in getting what I thought was necessary. 8:59 p.m. Rudolph H. Bruer, Esq: Appl. No. 4120 (Proposal A & B, or Proposal C & D. ) East Wind Development Corp. as the current owner of property located on King Street between Third and Second Streets, New Suffolk, NY, identified as 1000-117-8-6, requesting approval of one of the following two proposals: Proposal 1: • Page 43 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals A. Special Exception, Article 111A, Section 100-30A.2, for permission to establish Accessory Apartment use in conjunction with principal single family use as provided by Article: 111, Section 100-31B(13). B. Variance under Article 11i, Section 100-31B(13-e) for permission to utilize existing floor area for the <accessory Apartment at a ratio of approximately 50-500 (instead of 40/600) as liveable floor area,. Or, Proposal 11, as follows: C. Special Exception, Article 111, Section 100-31B-1 for approval of a two family dwelling and related accessory uses in an existing "former supermarket" building. D. Variance under Article 1X, Section 100-92 (Bulk Lot sIze Schedule) for approval of lot area as exists of 21,430 sq. ft. for two-family .use in this HB Zone District. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey for King Street and Second Street indicating the ..formei,. John's Supermarket, which is the owner of this property, which is not the owner of the property but Fast Wind Development. One story, former supermarket at-id second story apartment, which is rather an extensive building. I have a copy, plus a concrete garage. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Breur, we're ready. We were hoping that you didn't fall asleep back there and we can see that your awake and ready to go. I don't mean you in question, I mean just everybody just listening to the verbiage of the footage in the prior appeal. Mr. Rudolph H. Bruer: On behalf of the applicant. We are here on behalf of the property in question is in contract i'or sale. The purchases are Mr. & Mrs. Worthmiller & Mr. & Mrs. Goldstein. Mr. & Mrs. Worthmiller are here. 'I believe you met them, all those of you that went to the property on Satur(lay met them. Obviously, you have seen the 'property and realize the problem of what we have. We have a building that was built I I)elieve, prior to zoning as a supermarket. We have the most recent certificate of occupancy with respect to this property goes back to 1987 at which time was zoned business and the C O at that time, I think your file has a copy of that. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yes, we do. Mr. Rudolph H. Bruer: Business, buildings, residents concrete floor and so forth. What we're here for, I believe my clients, probably, I know my clients would like the two family option. Primarily because it solves the problem now, period. If you go for the accessory apartment, that's something which requires annual Page 44 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals review. It really was designed for a situation whej:�e the property would be owned by primary . owner and renting it out to a tenant. That's why they had the sixty forty requirements. That's why they had a requirement or have a requirement that the owner, upon the death of the owner I think there is a years period ' which you must get it renewed or lose your two family or accessory apartment status. I think it would be more settled if we had the two family. The hardship obviously is, that this property probably, we are in a R 40 zone. It's a one family dwelling situation. The property, the building is really, can't be used for a one family dwelling. I mean, there is a residence which is used upstairs, but the downstairs area is really not designed for anything really than a supermarket or retail use. I think what we have come here with i€; a proposal, to _ satisfy, hopefully for good the use of this property in this.. area. If you notice the Tax Map you'll see that the size of ,the other properties in the area is much less than this,. this_ is quite a large piece for the area. We obviously need a variance because the code requires I believe 80,000 square feet' for a two family. We have adequate square footage for the 'building itself I believe. Like for instance, the, ground floor not covering is .Like 65011"f square feet 'I would think% according to my calculations. The apartments that are proposed there are oversized. The property has plenty of parking, it being a former supermarket. Again, I think it would be proper and really the community would appreciate it being a residential use rather than the commercial use which the building was designed for. Chairman: What is the zoning code. Secretary L. Kowalski: R 40 Chairman: It's not the business area. Secretary L. Kowalski: , No. . 111Rudolph H. Bruer: I think the loss of the non conformance use of the business because I don't think, I'm not sure, I can't commit the owner on this, I don't think it was used as a business for the last couple of years. Chairman: A long time actually. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I know, but the next application, if you deny this application the next application, I'm sure corning before you will be for some type of either change of zone back to business or some type of retail use because that's what there building for. Chairman: Restaurant. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Restaurant or something like t.lrat which would be more parking, more congestion. My clients are going to use this Page 45 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals as a residence. They are going to use joining the downstairs area as a studio. They don't intend to use this as a exhibition hall. They are not there to bring in the public to see whatever work- they do, that will be taken care of in another place. What they have to do would be to finish up the construction or do the con:;t:r.uction for the second apartment. They will of course Have to "meet all the building codes and the requirements of that and this approval of course would be meeting all the requirements of the code. They. did have, An purchasing this, they went to the process of having a quote ,on quote Engineers inspection of the property, which pointed out to them the various things any person would do in buying a house with a typical, house inspection. They believe that this is a doable, workable situation which they are willing to spend their- money and buy this property. Chairman: Did the engineer's report Rudy, show any default or deformities to the building structure as it stands? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I didn't read it. I didn't re,:lly realize that this question was coming up. I.-noticed that at a prier hearing here, that it might be asked here, which is why I'm saying we going to conform to the code. Remember, this is a commercial building which has a residence on it. If anything has, I thinly the codes are stricter there.- We have a residence on top of a bu5hiess in terms of fire codes and. so and so forth. They will of course, they are going to be living there and they have told me tonight they are going to meet all the code requirements. They will upgrade the electric and do that which is necessary to conform, and they wil.1 do that. As I said they are under contract to purchase this. The, contractors, I can leave this here if you want. It's a contract that was dated April 3 rd. It requires them to get whatever appro�-als. They got 90 days to get it with a 30 day extension. Chairman: What's the purchase price? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: The purchase price is $169,000.00. Chairman: Thank you. O K Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Mr & Mrs. Worthmiller are here and we will answer any questions you have. We respectfully request that you please grant this variance. Chairman: Well Board Member Villa: Well my concern is, you heard the previous one, that grant it, it's nice to hear that they are willing to do all this but I'm just wondering, if again, I don't lake to be in a Page 46 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals position of granting something and find out you cannot meet the codes. I would like to see something along those lines that can be. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Well, I think they have to because to do anything here,. they have to go to the Building Depa..e,tment, and the Building Department needs . to do the additional work for that apartment. It's not like we're taking existing codes. We have to add on and do the construction and they , will not give us a building permit unless we're going to meet the codes. I'd like to point out, at least we're being caught short in a way. I mean, in all your applications of all the people that have come here for accessory apartments which are in the nature of this. When was the last time if ever, that you asked to show up with plans showing that you meet a two family dwelling, I mean. It's not in your instructions. Board Member Villa: This is beyond and above that because you still have a very large old building which you are going to use as another area' down stairs and what have you. So you got more than just a two,family house. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I'd like to point out that: if we left it alone, we are entitled at least, to live where we, are and use what we're doing as a studio. So there is no change other than that upstairs apartment turning into another residence and allowing this purchase to happen. Otherwise, we're going to back to a .retail store probably next year. Board Member Villa: I don't have any problems what your proposing, I'd just like to know that it can meet; all the codes that's all, and your saying the building department. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: My clients are going to live there and they are going to make sure that it meets all the codes. Board Member. Villa: You see, . I don't like to be passing on something and putting the building department on the spot of having to approve something, or turning it down and saying, you know, and have you between two positions or two departments of the Town. It doesn't make sense. We should have it clear, up front.. Chairman: Let me just ask you this question. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I disagree with you. Chairman: Let's assume that he as agent .for these clients, we held this in abeyance for a short period of time. O K. lie as the agent and the attorney for, made the application to the building department for all of the changes that they want to do to this building. O K. You make the application over there. Building Inspector will come Page 47 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals out and look at the building, possibly upon the . request of filling that application with the Building Department whicii you have not done yet because you don't- have anything to go by yet. Is that correct. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Correct. Chairman: Right. He will then tell them what lie is going to request. O K All right. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: If he says O K then I have no problem. Chairman: O K Board Member Dinizio: No, I disagree with that whole heartily. In all honestly, why don't we do it like we do every other one. Which is, we're not granting the building and we're not saying it's safe for them to live there, we're not saying they have enough ingress ingress. We're not saying their windows dre large en(.-A gh. All we're saying, really saying is that, we :see ..a-building that has very little use. Certainly, the use that it could be used for is objectionable to the town to change the zone on it. We're just saying to them that they have what appears to be two apartments. You have two separate couples that want to own it equally. Al we're saying is yes. Go ahead and own it equally, and use it as two apartments. It's riot going to be a supermarket anymore. I really-don't care what you want to do downstairs. If you want to put your paintings downs there fine. It's a basement as far as I'm concerned. But don't make them go to the Building Department and pretend that they have what we have and have the Building Department pretend or have to commit themselves to what they think they might require. because they could be going to a building process, they could. go staxt ripping out walls, find other things wrong, and the Building Department is going to require them to meet certain codes. Those codes are written. There is nothing new about that. We're just basically granting use here. In my mind lesser use then, and certainly a more conductive use to the surrounding area.. To put them through that. Chairman: It's a conforming use. It's residential, residential. Board Member Dinizio: Right. But it's two apartment and what could be if they tore it down, probably four houses. Chairman: So what you're saying is, that you're not requiring any. Chair Member Dinizio: I cannot vote for something that's going to tell these applicants to go to the Building Department and pretend. Page 48 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Well the only other thing is 'to go to an Architect or an Engineer. Board Member Dinizio: No. That's not necessary. They said they would be responsible. My assumption is that Mr. Bruer and Mr & Mrs. Worthmiller will be responsible. Certainly, lets expect the Building Department to do their job. Now, you know how I fell about that Bob. I've stated it publicly but I don't think we're in a position to ask them to pretend in any way to come up with any guarantee in any way meet the codes or the Building Department will guarantee to meet the codes. They have too. Mr. Rudolph Breur: We're going to have to come up with a certificate of occupancy from the Building Department which we assume is going to do it's job and make us meet tb e requirements. As I said, we want to meet the requirements because we are going to be living there We being my clients., Board Member Dinizio: We want you to meet, we're going to require you-,to meet the requirements because the Building. Inspector, that's his job. Now again, Bob, do' you understand? I've stated my, I'm perfectly clear on how I think the Building 'Department but again, that's how it's suppose to work. I don't want to deviate it from that one bit. Chairman: O K While your standing there, their no one else there except for Serge's dear wife, so I'm sure there is no one else in the audience that would like to. speak in favor of it except for your clients, if they would like to say something they are very welcomed to. Is there anything else you would like to say in defense. Mr.Worthmiller: Actually, everything is said. Chairman: Right. There is no one in the audience that is going to speak against the application then we'll go back the q.Lzandary that we were dealing with. All I'm trying to do Gentlemen and Ladies is solidify, the situation so we can put it to bed tonight. So James, Serge. Do you have a question? Mr. Worthmiller: I don't understand. Why can't we with respect to do other variance, subject to their meeting all the requirements. If they don't, they don't have the variance. What's so difficult? I mean, that's it. Chairman: o K . Mr. Worthmiller: If they don't meet them, then there variance doesn't apply. • Page 50 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Let's take the worst case cinereal. O K There's disagreement .between the two groups of owners. All .right. On the common area. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Right. Chairman: They put a party wall up, downstairs. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Right. Chairman: Equally dividing the square footage and one, uses one side and one uses the other side. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: What's the problem. Chairman: There's no problem. I think that if you had an intermingling or. . conjunction of some other the factors involves here. I think that I could see that point. We were looking at a basically a square building, a rectangular building, O.K. But we're looking at a, building that's completely open, O K.;.. So I think that the options are desirable at this point and I'm not taking this away from you Bob. Board Member Villa: You're talking about two residence upstairs or in a framed structure and I don't know what codes fall into play here. Board Member Dinizio: But that's just it. Mr. Rudolph Breur: We are redefining the function of the board, if you go along with Mr. Villa's suggestion.. Board Member Dinizio: We'll I don't intend too. I think we should just vote on this thing and let the town, let the people, do what they have to do, let them do it. Again I'll say it again Bob, you know how I feel about the people that are responsible for_ the next step, but again we have to rely on them. I don't think we. should become the .judge and the enforcer. Mr. Robert Villa: I'm not saying we should be the enforcer, but we should know that all our T's are crossed and the I's are dotted. Board Member .Dinizio: They are. Mr, Robert Villa: Supposed they come back and say, you have a two house, and you can't have two families living up over the structure because it's a fire hazard. Then what are .you going to do? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Then we obviously can't do it. We're wasting our time here. Page 51 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board ,Member Dinizio: I'm assuming Mr. Bruer has gone beyond tonight. Board Member Villa: Evidently they haven't because he'd have the answer if he did. Board Member Dinizio: No Board Member Villa: Yes he would. If he said .if: was perfectly legal, like researched it, lie could do all this. Board Member Dinizio: Mr. Bruer feels that he feels confident that he can meet all the codes. Board Member Villa: He just said that if they find out he can't do it. Board Member Dinizio: Right. That's if. Board Member Villa: Well. Board Member Dinizio: But he's saying to us that he's going to meet a.11 the codes Secretary L. Kowalski: What if you put an update or something. Mr. Rudolph Breur: We wanted to come in here and decide that, we.'re going to have a philological discussion whe(.her structures meets codes. I thing it's beyond the boards function to be talking about the codes. in terms of meeting the Building code, that not the boards function. The boards really here to determi.ne ' whether we should have a variance to be able to have two families here. It's the Building Department function to determine whether we meet the fire and the building codes. Board Member Villa: Ruby, I can grant you that but by the same token if a person is buying something, wouldn't you think they would know that they can do what they propose to do before they put their money down. Board Member. That's not our function. Board Member Villa: It is our function. Board Member Dinizio: No it's not. We're not sul)i?ose to protect them. I could care less if he makes a bad decision. We're not charged with that. Page 49 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Are you making, excuse me. Can I just question you. Board Member Dinizio: I'd like to know if you have any idea if you have any restrictions. My personal feeling is, we're getting something better than we could ever possibly hope for in my mind. Chairman: Well. My only restriction is being limitcd to those two living areas. I mean, we have a 6500 square foot building there. I mean, we're actually sold. We meet the people and they are very nice. It does not stop them from selling the property to someone else, so that the restriction would only be for those two residential units. Secretary L. Kowalski: The project being two family. Board Member Dinizio: Two family Mr. Worthmiller: I understand what you're saying but I don't see why we have to make the extra coming back to, our delaying our decision. Board Member Villa: Do you ' know what happens. To a smaller degree what happens in situations like this. We heard it earlier where a gentlemen made basically, a bad business decision in 1987 and now he's looking to try to bail out by getting tziultiple use out of the property. Now, these people are coming in, and - they are getting into a situation. I'd like to have things cut and dry, ahead of time knowing what they are doing is, can meet: all the codes before time, rather have. someone buy something and then find out they have a problem they can't meet a code. Then they are back where looking for another variance or another deviation. I'm saying, it's better to have things straight and clear before time. Mr. Worthmiller: That sounds good, but the point is, we're not there keeper and we're charged with whether they hax.-e to come back or not. They come back here and they ask for something, if it there for you to grant it, we grant it and if they have tough luck and can't meet it, that's their problem not ours. Board Member Villa: That is our business. What I'm saying we are also responsible for Town codes. Secretary L. Kowalski: You can make it subject to, but I don't think. Mr. Worthmiller: You can make it subject to the '1'own codes and any other thing that applies. If they don't meet it, they don't meet it. Page 52 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Let me just say this, O K If we had a poured cement building O K , where the walls were all interlocked so there would be no manipulation of walls as they function. That could be the case but we don't have that deal, we have a wood structure. Anything could be blown out, and stairwells could be put in. . Anything that's required for health, safety and welfare of these people and anybody they intent to sell to, could be done. That's the reason why I would vote on it as it sits. If again, if you had the old lofts of New York City with steel beams running across everything and everything was all interrelated and you couldn't do manipulation like this, then maybe there would be a concern.But that doesn't exist here. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: No it doesn't. Secretary L. Kowalski: There's only one other tliilig. I think it would involve some, concern: it' fire code regulatioJis effected the variance or the special exception that was before the L)oard. Such as the size of the property. If it was too small, say that there was a very tiny piece of land and in order to ;have a two, family house you had to .add on certain fire exits and stairways and so on, and you could not meet the setbacks, that would effect the variance and the special exception. You are within the same building so there is nothing that is being done on the outside that will effect anything. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: That's correct. Chairman: The only thing that you are going to give us Rudy if this does for tonight, you have to give us the. square footage of the downstairs kitchen area, and the upstairs footage of the second story apartment. Secretary L. Kowalski: I think he did that already though. Board Member Dinizio: I thought I saw it in the file.. Chairman: Is it in there. Secretary L. Kowalski: Is it in there? Mr. Rudolph .. Bruer: The square footage of the downstairs bathroom? Chairman: No No. The kitchen area downstairs. Secretary L. Kowalski: The kitchen is 16 plus 7 inches by Chairman: We got it, because we are going to restrict that in the decision to the apartment area. Do you understand what I'm saying? Page 53 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals The apartment to be created, if it is created tonight. O k So it's going to be that downstairs kitchen plus the upstairs Loft. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I think there is a bathroom downstairs. Chairman: The bathroom, to whole thing before we get to that freezer area. Board Member Dinizio: I'd like to make a motion that granted I guess it would be C. Secretary L. Kowlaski: No, A & B excuse me, your right C. I had them reversed. C & B for the two family Chairman: For a two family dwelling related accessory uses in former supermarket building. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: It would be C & D Secretary L. Kowalski: Yes. Board Member Villa: A variance for a lot area. Secretary L. Kowalski: Jim said he made the motion. Chairman: O K now. Can I just ask a question without putting any words in your mouth. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: That's O K. Chairman: For the area that we had seen, to conform) for the second apartment. Is that correct, the downstairs area. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Yeah that's right. Chairman: That's what I'm trying to impress. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Yes, it's there. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's on paper. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: It is there. It's 9 and one half. Chairman: O K Secretary L. Kowalski: Is what you saw, is that what it is Jerry? Chairman: Yeah. Page 54 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: It's very close. Chairman: The only thing is, it excludes the stairwell going up, because. that's .in a separate back there. Board Member Villa: It got to go back there anyway. Secretary L. Kowalski: You're talking about living area. Chairman: Yes, do you see this. This is the room here, the kitchen and the bathroom. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yeah Board Member Dinizio: It's right here. The dimensions are there too. Chairman: Just show her where the stairwell are goi.ug up Jim. See that stairwell is actually out of the living area. Board Member Dinizio: Right Secretary L. Kowalski: This one here, your talking �,bout. Board Member Dinizio: The bathroom right there also. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's on the other plan Chairman: That's a better plan. We're getting there. Secretary L. Kowalski: There are a lot of plans in here. Chairman: This is the ground floor and the only thing out of the area is .-the stairwell area so I think we would really have to go in there. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's not living area anyway. Chairman: No, it's riot living area anyway. Secretary L. Kowalski: Now access to the second floor.• apartment? Board Member Dinizio: Well yes, that's really living a►e-a. Chairman: So we're going with that whole area and you have to go up to here Jim. Board Member Dinizio: Right. To the bottom of the top of the stairs. �. Page 55 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: As exactly as shown on the plans. You're not changing anything. Chairman: No, I'm not changing anything. Secretary L. Kowalski: O K Chairman: Let me just put a dotted line across here because this is where the actual end of the living area is. Board Member Villa: 22 feet Secretary L. Kowalski: So which for the upstairs apa Lment. Chairman: Yes. This, all this and then the stairwell. goes up to the second story. Board Member Villa: 38 and one half feet. Chairman: Which is this. This is the ecpnd story apartment. Board Member. Villa: Can I ask a silly question? You went all through all this. Why are you doing this? We're granting them a two family house in a common area, what's the difference. Board Member Villa: The difference is exactly what: I said Bob. If these people intend to sell this property to somebody with fifty kids. I happen to work with a guy that has 17 child ren. We could end up with the biggest house that we've ever seen in our. lives. Board Member Villa: What's is the difference. If a person come here and buys a one family house. He has the right to do whatever the hell he wants to in 6500 square feet. Chairman: He is only allowed by law two kitchens not to 'be used. Now if we grant this, he's allowed two kitchens. Bu I, uniquely, from law, from zoning laws by precedent of the court he's allowed two kitchens, not to be used in conjunction with each other. Board Member Villa: O K Chairman: That is a Hebrew situation the day of permit. So what I'm doing is restricting the living area, not the working area of the apartments. I 'am not saying that they can't -use the common area as living area. I'm saying it cannot be used as a, it can be used as a living room, so to speak. But I don't want to see further encroachment, elongations of kitchens and all this other stuff that would normally be. 1. Page 56 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: I'm just saying we're buying a pig in a poke here. If the Building Department goes back here and says we need another entry way because these bedrooms are two fa.r, away from the stairway, we need another stairway. They are going to be back to zero. How are they going to do it? Secretary L. Kowalski: They don't have to_come back. Chairman: They don't have to come back. We just: said, we could work out anything that they want. Board Member Villa: You're just putting dotted lines in here,though you said. Chairman: I'm not putting dotted lines, I'm just defiiahig the law. Board Member Dinizio: He's just defining the law. Secretary L. Kowalski: Defining the separation between the two apartments, that's all. Board Member Dinizio: Defining the apartments, ai:id then you're going to have a common space. Chairman: It's a common area after that. Board Member Dinizio: Right. Mr. Worthmiller: I'd just like to say the House will be (inaudible)Chairman: Right. Mr. Worthmiller: Actually two of those but I want to be close. Chairman: You're talking about that big ramp going u p in the back. Mr. Worthmiller: Right. Chairman: O K, you made the motion: Board Member Dinizio: I made the motion, it will be C and D. Chairman: O K, based upon that new existing. Board Member Dinizio: Do you want to define that. Chairman: We did define it. Page 57 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: Then we are going to state that the downstairs is common area. Chairman: Is common area. Yeah. Board Member Dinizio: O K Secretary L. Kowalski: By common area you mean for accessory Art studio, is that what you mean by common area? Mr. Worthmiller: I didn't understand. The studio is common area. Chairman: Common area. Right. Mr. Worthmiller: The exact downstairs where we will will be. Chairman: Right and the stairwell area going upstairs. Secretary L. Kowalski: I have to know what coinnion area. is. Can you define common area. It's not in the code and eve don't have a definition Chairman: It's area succinct from the two apartments. That's it. Secretary L. Kowalski: For accessary use. Chairman: Yeah. Secretary L. Kowalski: Or storage space. Chairman: Yeah Secretary L. Kowalski: O K ,that's what I thought you meant, but I had to make sure for the record. Chairman: O K, who wants to second that motion. I'll second it. Secretary L. Kowalski: That is for both the specici.l. exception and the variance. We're doing it in one resolution. 8:15 p.m. Postponement requested by attorney for the applicants (see letter copies for board members) . Appeal No. 4314 - James and Barbara Miller, Contract Vendees. (Owners/Sellers: Paradise of Southold, Inc. and Others. Continuation of hearing carried over from June 7, 1995. Location of Property: 580 Basin I.Zoad, Southold, NY, 1000-81-1-16.7 (formerly part of 16.4) Postponed till August 9th. + Page 58 - Hearing Transcripts Regular. Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Noreen Frey Prepared from tape recordings 2)ECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK DATE ����95 HOUR Town Clerk, Town of Southold_