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Home My WebLink AboutZBA-06/07/1995 HEARING APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS O��S11FF0(,�cO hy. Gy Southold Town Hall Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman c 53095 Main Road Serge Doyen,Jr. y z P.O. Box 1179 James Dinizio, Jr. O ® Southold,New York 11971 Robert A. Villa Fax(516) 765-1823 Lydia A.Tortora �a Telephone(516)765-1809 BOARD OF APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD PUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD June 7, 1995 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE J. DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member LYDIA A. TORTORA, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistant to Board L M n '.1 I N D E X APPLN. # APPLICANT PAGES 4210 DONALD ALDRICH 3-4 4312 JEAN C. HOLLAND-LONGNECKER/HOLLAND 4-5 4313 ROY SCHOENHAAR 5-7 4311 ANDREASVASSILIOUS 8-11 4315 JOAN AND STEPHEN LATHAM 11-14 4314 JAMES AND BARBARA MILLER 15-48 4246 LKCCORP. 49-83 m A.?B��?9 ��J&li e- 7, 7:35 PM Appl. No. 4210 - Donald Aldrich. Request based upon the April 13, 1995 Notice of Disapproval in which applicant is requesting a building permit for a deck addition "as built" and disapproved due to insufficient rear yard setback, ref. Art IIIA, Sec. 100-30A 3 of the Zoning Code. 1620 Hiawathas Path, Southold, NY 1000-78-3-43.2. Chairman: I have, a copy of a Survey dated May 15, 1976 by Roderick Van Tuylindicating the placement of beautiful two story frame home which is almost centrally located on the lot which is 115 by 110 ft in depth. Nature of the application is the existing deck in the rear of the dwelling of approximately 14 x 23 leaving a 32 ft. rear yard. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there anyone here that wants to be heard in reference to this first hearing? Is Donald Aldrich here? Chairman: How are' you Sir? Is there something you would like to say for the record. Mr. Donald Aldrich: I'd like approval. Chairman: Sure. We'll see if .anyone on the Board wants to grill you. Is there anyone that wants to ,speak in favor for the application? Is there anyone that wants to speak against the application. Any specific questions from any board members? Board Member: I guess the record can show why this came about. You mentioned today about selling the house. Mr.Donald Aldrich: About 6 years ago I put the deck on. I built it myself. My.wife decided she wants to move to Florida where all her relatives have fled, and I said all right. So we put the house on the market. Some brokers came in and said, do you have a C O for the deck? That's when the procedure started. So I need a C O for this three foot that I'm too close to my rear setback. My yard is bounded on the rear with 20 foot Cedar trees. Mr. Miller was there today to inspect it. Hopefully, everything will go well. Mr.Chairman: Is there any intentions of ever enclosing it? No, not at all. So you wouldn't have any objections to that restriction. Any other objections, 'Jim No. Lydia, Serge? Does anyone want to make a motion? Board Member Tortora: Provided we restrict the deck as being unenclosed, unroofed. Secretary L. Kowalski: Lydia, I can't pick you up. Is there a mike on the floor (to use)? Chairman: There is a mike here. Secretary L. Kowalski: c unroofed and uninclosed. ., Page - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 Mr Chairman: So Lydia has made that motion. Does anyone want to second it? I'll second it. Chairman: All in. favor just- say Aye. 7:42 p.m. Appl. No. 4312 - Jean C. Holland-Longnecker & E. Kirk Holland. Chairman: The appeal is #4312 based on a request made on May 5 by the Notice of disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for a building permit for an accessory, as exists, and disapproved on the following grounds. Variance 'under the Zoning Ordinance, Article 111-A, Section 100-30A.4: Accessory Building, 100-33, shall be located in the required rear yard. Corner of Lowland Road and Sunset Road at Nassau Point, Cutchogue. Property size: 55,660 sq.ft. 1000-111-10.18.1. You have a copy of the survey( which is somewhat reduced) by Roderick Van Tuyl. I don't see the specific date on it. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and the surrounding properties in the area. We have been out to look at the gazebo. We are aware of its approximate placement on the property. Who would like to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? Mr. Thomas Longnecker: This is my wife Jean Holland. Chairman: Yes, I remember meeting you a long time ago. Mr. Thomas Longnecker: We assumed it was included in an extension on the house. Now that we are going through the records because the house is up for sale, we have a contract on it, we find now that it wasn'tincluded. So we're trying to get -everything straightened out. The Gazebo by the smalls survey, the property is surrounded on three sides by map roads," right of way". Two of these right of ways don't even exist, there like foot paths. That's about it. Chairman: 0.K. The approximate size of the gazebo is what? Mr.Thomas Longnecker: The approximate size of the gazebo is 13 by 13. Chairman: Now I have the placement of 28 Feet from the house. Mr.Longnecker That's approximately it. Chairman: Do you have any idea how far it is from Lowland Road or Beach Lane. Mr. Longnecker: I think from the house to the beach 74-78 Feet, 28 plus 13 would be 41. So that would give us 30 something feet from the beach. Chairman: O.K. There's no intention of enclosing this structure to your knowledge. Mr.Longnecker: No No Chairman: So therefore you would not object to a restriction on that. Mr. Longnecker: No No Screens is all right. Page ' - Hearing Transcript . ZBA .Meeting of June 7, 1995 Chairman: I'm talking about complete enclosure, a little electric heat? OK it does demand, the house and the gazebo a beautiful view of Cutchogue Harbor, there's no question about that. Mr.Longnecker: It would be difficult to move it! Chairman: Right. Thank you. Is their anyone else that would like to speak in favor of this application? Anyone want to speak against it? Any questions from Board Members? Bob, Jim, Lydia,Serge? Anyone having a objection to it? Board Member Doyen: Id like to make a motion. Chairman 0. K. Secretary L. Kowalski: to approve it. Chairman: : Would you qualify it the way we qualified the other? Board Member Doyen: That it not be enclosed. Chairman: Except for screening. Who will second it? Board Member: I will second it. Chairman: All in favor say Aye. Have a lovely evening. Mr. Longnecker: Thank you. 7:47 p.m. Appl. No. 4313 Roy Schoenhaar. Request is based upon the May 10, . 1995 Notice of Disapproval wherein applicant requests a building permit for accessory shed inside yard area "as exists" and disapproved under Art. 111, Sec. 100-33 which requires accessory structures to be located in the required rear yard. 64300 Main Road, Greenport Chairman The next appeal is in behalf of Roy Schoenhaar. It is appeal 4313. - which includes the restaurant Marina, and all the other various pieces of improvements for this particular piece of property. Nature of this application is a shed, on the west side of the property, adjacent to the restaurant. We will ask the applicant approximately how far it is from the water. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this 'and surrounding property. Is their something you would like to add, Mr.Schoenhaar? Mr.Schoenhaar: Only at the time of negotiations, it wasn't deliberate on 'my part to include this on the property. The Attorney's relied on the C O dated 1982 by Ed Hindermann & they had assumed everything was in tact at that time. I saw no reason to look into it further. Page Z - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 Chairman: What is the nature of the building at this time? What do you use it for? Mr.Schoenhaar: It's a shower to the Marina Chairman: Oh, it's a shower to the marina. Mr.Schoenhaar: And all the services to the restaurant & marina come from that building. Chairman: Do you know how, far, approximately it is from the basin itself? Mr.Schoenhaar: 40 or 50 Feet. The dining room is 30 ft. Chairman: O.K 30 Ft. in actual depth, from the point. Mr.Schoenhaar: If you walked diagonal for that particular building. Chairman: If you took a stab around 40 would be about right. While I have you up there, do you have any questions of this gentlemen. Bob, No! Jim, No! Lydia No! .Serge? Secretary L.Kowalski: What are we saying? Chairman: We are saying approximately 40 Ft. from the basin. The actual set back from the property looks like its about 3 to 4 feet. Secretary L.Kowalski: Is the 3 to 4 ft. you would say? Mr. Schoenhaar: It's a crucial diagonal, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Secretary L.Kowalski: Do you think it's less than three feet? Mr.Schoenhaar: No, but it's kind of deceiving. Looking at two pieces of property that run right along the other side. Chairman: You have no intentions of moving it anyway? Mr.Schoenhaar: It certainly serves the purpose as it is with no intention of moving it or changing it or alternating it. Chairman: Good! Mr.Schoenhaar: Thank You!• Chairman: Is there anyone that would like to speak in favor of this application? Is their anyone that would like to speak against the application? Anyone have any objection to this? No. Anyone like to make a motion? Board Member Villa: I'll make a motion. Chairman: Granting it as applied for in its placement. Board Member: Villa: Right! Chairman: Second it! All in favor say Aye. Page 7 - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 Secretary L.Kowalski: It was approved. Chairman: Have a lovely evening. r Page - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 7:53 p.m. Appl. No. 4311 - AndreasVassilious. Frank Polistino as agent-contractor. This application is based upon the April 29, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, wherein applicant is requesting a building permit for pool with deck as an accessory structure on an area other than required rear yard. Pool exists. without deck. 585 Inlet Dr. and Summit Dr. Mattituck. Cpt Kidd Estates Lot 87. 1000-106-2-1 Chairman: I have a copy of sketch of the survey. Actually it's a print of the survey dated March 24, 1994 indicating this one plus story house, which is built on Inlet Drive. The nature of this application is 18 by 32 foot pool in the side yard area, approximately 34 feet from the deck or the deck area, which is housing around the pool, which is a railroad tie wall on a slope. A copy of Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. So does someone want to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? Mr. Frank Palistino contractor representing Mr. Vassiliouswho is out of town. Chairman: O.K. What would you like to tell us? Mr. Frank Palistino: I'm not quite certain what exactly was disapproved in this situation and I'm here to answer any questions I can to expedite this law. Chairman: Well, reading the legal notice it said that building permit for a pool and a deck an accessory structure in area other than rear yard. It appears that you only have 27 feet. Actually you have 22 feet. It's the closes point for a rear yard. It would be very difficult to put that pool in the rear of the house. So it was chosen to put it in side yard. My question is, how come you didn't know that you had to get a building permit for it at the time? Mr. Frank Polistino: Well, I had nothing to do with the actual pool. So Mr. Vassilious became aware that there would be a problem he went ahead and tried to resolve it. He has no intention of doing anything deceptive. Chairman: I understand. Who built the wall around the pool? Mr. Frank Polistino: I did that. Chairman: O K. Now is that going to be filled in or is that going to remain just the way it is? Is there going to be a deck that will fill in that whole area around the pool Mr. Frank Polistino: Yes Chairman: Is there going to be grass planted on the slope toward Summit drive. Page 9 - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 Mr. Frank Polistino: Correct, with the exception of anything that would conform to the code I understand that possibly we need to have a connecting deck. Chairman: We're not going to make you put a connecting deck. Mr. Frank Polistino: We're willing to do whatever is necessary to conform, at one point it was suggested to do that. We should connect the. deck to the deck that's attached to the house to the bulk headed area. Other than that, yes, it would be great if that's the answer to your question. Chairman: O K All right. I guess while we have you up here Sir we'll ask Mr. Villa if he has any questions? Board Member Villa: When you say grass, you have it tiered going down to the pool and it looks like the stairs are on the left side. What's going to be in those tiers some planting on it. Mr. Frank Polistino: Oh Yes. That area would be planting. I thought we were talking about the opened flat area above. Those are flower beds. Board Member Villa: But then it actually go up and from the road you can't see because you have such a berm, you can't see this anyway. That's going to stay natural, I would assume. Mr. Frank Polistino: Yes Board Member Villa: I don't have anymore questions. Chairman: O K Jim, no nothing at all. Lydia? Member Tortora: The only question I have is, I have two maps here and on one map it shows a new deck 10 by 38. Is that when you were thinking of connecting it to the house? Mr. Frank Polistino: We submitted a second proposal to the building department that we thought we'd conform so we wouldn't have to apply for a variance. So that was the second proposal that we were assuming we would resolve .the matter, it obviously didn't. Whatever would be asked upon to perform, we would be more than willing to do. Board Member Lydia Tortora: So the map we would be looking at would be the first map and not this one, the second proposal. . Mr. Frank Polistino: Right. Board Member Lydia: O K Chairman: Unless we required you to put a deck you have no intentions of putting a deck there. Is that correct? f Page /D - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 Mr. Frank Polistino: Well, the only thing Mr. Vassilious would have liked to have done is put a walk way. Chairman: Right. Serge O.K. Let me go back to Bob one second, since we have him here. What do you think of the possibility of a blow out of this pool since your the resident engineer? Would. there be any concern about water down that hill onto some grasses? Board Member Villa: You have a concrete retaining wall which is down closer to Summit drive. Chairman: Right. Board Member Villa: I assume that's going to establish the grade, and then that wall is got to be 10 or 12 feet high. Mr. Frank Polistino: The concrete wall. I don't think it's that high,it's preexisting. I don't believe it's that high. But at the base, it's all tiered off. At the base of the next tier, he intended to put more railroad ties just to reinforce that area. Just to reinforce it from erosion. Board Member Villa: How far from the side of the pool facing Summit right which goes down, how much of a level area are you going to have there? Mr. Frank Polistino: Now we're talking below the pool Board Member Villa: Just from the pool out. What's your deck or level area going to be. Mr. Frank Polistino: We'll the deck on the pool on the Summit side would be just a walk around on that side. Then the natural grade sort of bevels down and he's going, we waited at this point to get this satisfied. Board Member Villa: Right. Mr. Frank Polistino He was going to 'put another retaining wall just to secure that area, before the concrete. Board Member Villa: Right. How far from the pool? Mr. Frank Polistino: From the pool. I'd say it's approximately 12 feet from the pool going towards Summit. Board Member Villa: What's the depth of that pool? Mr. Frank Polistino: It's above the ground spout pool and has a slope middle at 7 feet, but the rest is a 4 foot perimeter all around. It's basically a standard above the ground pool with an expandable liner. Board Member Villa: Right. Gentlemen, do you see a considerable problem with it? Page /I/ - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 Chairman: My only consideration was, should we . require him to put a french drain on the other side of the pool so if you did have a problem. Board Member Villa: If he did have a blow out a french drain is going to hold it. Chairman: No.. Board Member Villa: Chances of that are pretty remote I would think. Chairman: Unless, not necessarily this applicant. If 'they sold the house and the person let the pool lay idle, and the liner deteriorate. That was the only concern I had. Mr. Frank Polistino: Excuse me. Chairman: Sure. Mr. Frank Polistino: I would think that if it was a in ground pool it would probably hold allot more water. Whereas the majority of the area from midway towards the east is a four foot pool basin. It doesn't have the volume of water a regular in ground pool has. Chairman: Right. Mr. Frank Polistino:. That helps to alleviate any concerns. Chairman: What actually alleviates more of the concerns to me is the fact it has an expansion liner, and it's just not sitting that character type situation, where it's out there. There is at least something to hold it along with the really nice wall you built. O K .Are there any other questions to this applicant? We will kick this around. I will not ask for a motion at this point. We will deal with it right after this hearing: Your welcome to stay. We have about three more. hearings. One of two will be a little longer than the other three that we just had. Secretary L.Kowalski: Or you can call tomorrow morning. Mr. Frank Polistino: Well, I'd probably like to stay just to get it resolved, if I can add anything. Chairman: O K sure. , Mr. Frank Polistino: Thank you, Board. Chairman: Thank you, Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor of this application, against this application. - Are there any further comments I make a motion of closing this hearing and reserving decision until later. All in favor say Aye. Aye. 8:02 p.m. Appl. No. 4315 - Joan & Stephen Latham. Request based upon the May 9, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, wherein applicant is requesting a variance to amend building ti Page - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 permit #22491Z issued April 17, 1995 for the modified location of a new single-family dwelling, "as built" and shown on the survey updated May 12, 1995 which shows a reduced front yard and reduced southerly side yard setback on this corner lot. 60 Rogers Road and Orchard Road; also Lots 0 & #3 as combined, shown on the Map of Beixedon Estates, Southold containing a total of 17,000 sq. ft. 1000-66-18 & 19. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey produced by Roderick Van Tyyl,pc dated May 12, 1995 which is the most recent amended date, indicating a foundation on the southerly side of 14 feet 4 inches It appears to be a front yard setback at approximately ,33 feet 8 inches. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and the surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard. How are you Sir. Can we grill you. Mr. Stephen Latham: Good evening. I appreciate the opportunity of being here. My name is Steve Latham, my wife Joan is with us this evening, and we are the owners of the property. I have a letter which I'd like to submit to the board. I thought I had * copies for everyone which I don't. Chairman: That's all right. Mr. Stephen Latham: It says Gentlemen, which I apologize for. It's not that your not Gentlemen, but if you would' like I can paraphrase. Basically it says, we've been around the family about 50 years. We're now into the fourth generation. Our three grandchildren are now staying with us for the summers. Our intension was that the house was going to be our retirement home in a few years. - We believe it to be an attractive home, as a matter of fact I think it's probably more attractive than it was originally presented to you in terms of the plans. Some of our neighbors here, the letter also contains attachments from four of our five surrounding neighbors. The fifth neighbor Larry Ostermanis here also and would be happy to offer more support. Obviously, the letter is also in support. The construction and reconstruction is not a simple task. It is rather complex in terms of raising it, excavating underneath, moving it both sidewards and forward to meet the figuration requiredon the . zoning. We believe that it was done properly. There should have been a survey done when the foundation was poured. We had ordered it but it was at the same time the Van Tyle family had the tragic death and I didn't have the heart to press them to do all the things because of the death in the family. It got away from us at that point. We continued with the construction, at this point now find the new survey we are, depending how you look at it. I guess the front yard we're� off by, if you go to the roof. 8 inches, if you go to the footing it's less than that. Actually, it's reverse, if you go to the roof it's about a foot, if you go to the footing before the gazebo it's about 8 inches. The side yard is about 6 inches. I think it was built about two and a half feet, and it's looking for the side yard restriction. It was never our intention to violate any of the requirements, there is room on the side. Everything was moved to the right, but it just wasn't far enough inadvertently. I would also comment that in moving the house for construction to the right away from the side yard, it is further away from Mrs. Dooleywho is here 1 1 i Page 13 - Hearing Transcript ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 than it was before. I would also like to make the case as it states going back to the late twenties or thirties. There are many houses that are actually built on or very close to the line and much closer to the line than ours is. We had an old tin garage in the rear which we took out. We incorporated the garage in the house. We moved the old garage, which is on both lines and is now a garden. So it's our house for the future, and we will do everything, and are doing whatever we can to make it attractive for our neighbors. I apologize for the problems I created but I think it would be unduly harsh to if we weren't given a variance for the eight inches, six inches, if that's what it is. I gather you have some questions. Chairman: I will concur with you, the house is absolutely gorgeous. Mr. Stephen Latham: Thank you. Chairman: While your up there, we'll start with the board members and we will start with Mr. Villa. Do you have any questions Mr. Villa? Board Member: Mr. Villa: Well, I just want to be sure that none of the neighbors have any problems with this. Mr. Stephen Latham: O K Let me if I may. Chairman: Surely Mr. Stephen Latham: I have a letter, two more of the five letters our neighbors supporting it with letters. We have two of our neighbors here, one whose letter is in there and one whose here in person. Would you like to here them ? Chairman: When we get to the point where anybody else wants to approve, we'll deal with it on that basis. Mr. Dinizio. Chairman: The problem is the applicant sits down, ' and then I have to ask the applicant to get back up. So that was the reason I asked the board members that question. Your welcome to sit down if you would like to Mr. Latham or your welcome to stand next to your neighbors. O K. Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor. I think Mr. Villa is looking for the person that is most closely related to the fourteen feet four inches. How are you tonight Sir. Mr: Larry Osterman: We have the property directly west of the Latham's. There house is absolutely gorgeous. We have no objection whatsoever. They are doing a spectacular job. Chairman: Thank you, Sir. Pleasure. The lady that's most closest to the south. Frances Doole: He knows me too; He's not going to get away with it (jokingly) . You couldn't ask for any better neighbors and I do wish you Page It/ - Hearing Transcript ` ZBA Meeting of June 7, 1995 would do something about it, because they put up a beautiful home and I'm so proud of them. You couldn't ask for better neighbors. Chairman: Could you just state your name again for the record dear? My name is Frances Doole. Wonderful. Anything else. No that's it. We will then continue with Mrs. Tortora. Do you have any questions? Mrs. Tortora: I don't have any questions. Your letter is very clear. Your statements are very clear. It seems that it's very minimum. Extensions, that's very minimum. Chairman: O K You've heard the people, anybody else. O K, anyone want to make a motion? Board Member Lydia, I will. Chairman: Second. All in favor, Aye. �Q�es 1 141 � 8:15 P.M. Appl. No. 4314 - Variance request for JAMES AND BARBARA MILLER, contract vendees. (Owner: Paradise of Southold, Inc. and Others). 580 Basin Road, Southold; Paradise Point, Section One, 1963 Filed Map No. 3761; 1000-81-1-16.7 (formerly p.o 16.4). The Chairman read the legal notice of hearing and part of the application for the audience. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the survey indicating a proposed house and proposed swimming pool area. I guess the easiest way to say it, it's proposed 58 feet, 51 feet at its closest point to the Basin, and approximately 100 feet - pardon me, I'm in reverse, I apologize, approximately 100 feet from the basin and approximately 51 feet at its closest point to the bulkhead on Peconic Bay. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody that would like to be heard? ANNETTE ADERESTO, ESQ: Good evening, Mr. Chairman. My name is Annette Aderesto of Blake and Aderesto, 18 Railroad Road, Center Moriches, NY. I represent the applicants who are contract vendees, James and Barbara Miller. The application before you requests permission to build a single-family dwelling, garage, pool and decks on a 1.79 acre parcel which consists of 78,000 square feet. This application is based on conformity, practical difficulty and economic hardship. The subject parcel is a parcel known as Tax Lot District 1000, Section 81, Block 1, Lot 16.7 located at Paradise Rage lb - Hearing 'L,anscript ltgguiar Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Point, Southold, New York. This parcel was designated as a single and separate lot on June 1, 1981 by the Planning Board of this Town.In addition, a (vacant land) Certificate of Occupancy for the subject parcel was also issued by the Building Department on June 12, 1981. And I would just like to read the language of that Certificate of Occupancy, '! . .This is a single and separate lot as approved by the Southold Town Planning Board June 1, 1981 with access to a street. . . ." This lot has been held, in single and separate ownership since the date of that grant and since the date of that C.O. Thus, I believe this is a buildable lot. In addition, subsequent to the filing of this application, as late as yesterday on June 6, 1995, the Planning Board determined that it had approved this lot in 1981, that it would not request Department of Health approval of the reconfiguration of this lot as approved in 1981 and the Planning Board in addition is not requiring the 1981 map to be filed with the County Clerk's Office. Also, the Planning Board advised they are not requiring any amendment to the 1963 map of Paradise Point. No further steps need be taken with this Planning Board regarding the buildability of this lot. Accordingly, on the first variance requested, I believe this lot is a single and separate lot and a buildable lot pursuant to the Town action taken in 1981. This parcel is recognized by the Planning Board as a buildable lot today without requiring any additional map filings in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office. Page 17 - Hearing ri.,anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Also, on the fourthvariance, Basin Road abuts this property and the subject premises, and it gives access to the subject premises. The applicant has no intention of extending Basin Road as they have legal access from Basin Road and as a C.O. from the Town states, they have access to the Road. Therefore, I believe that the fourth variance requested is unnecessary, and perhaps the Board will consider making a motion to withdraw that request. A review of the tax map of the area indicates that this parcel is almost twice as large as the majority of lots on Paradise Point. This lot was always intended to be a separate building lot. The area of the lot is 78,000 square feet which in substantial compliance with the 80,000 sq. ft. required in the R-80 zone, thus there is conformity to the area. As to the subject of two uses on the subject premises, the lot currently has an easement running with the land in favor of Paradise Point Associates, Inc. This is utilized for parking. and access to approximately 13 boats slips in the boat basin. I must emphasize that this is a private association. It is not open to the public. The boat basin itself is a separate tax parcel known as District 1000 Section 81 Block 1 Lot 16.8. And it consists of 84,000 sq. ft. Thus, the total square footage of the two parcels, tax lot 16.7 and 16.8 is 162,000 sq. ft. , which is in excess of the 160 sq. ft. that the town feels is required for two uses on one premises. The only reason an easement is necessary to access the Boat Basin and the Boat Basin in entirely underwater. Thus, for obvious reasons, for Page Hearing 'i.,anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town 'Board of Appeals parking of cars to get to the boat slips, there must be an easement on Lot 16.7 which is the subject parcel. It must be stressed again that the Association is private. This is a minimal use. We're talking about approximately 13 boat slips. It's not open to the public and it's a seasonal use. The boat basin has been used and docks present at the boat basin since the late 1950s. Tax lot 16.7 has been used to gain access to the boat basin since the mid-1960s, and so it was in existence when the Planning Board issued their decree that this was a buildable lot in 1981. The parking was also in existence at that time and it was in existence when the Building Department issued their C.O. on this lot. The third variance requested by the applicant tonight is for a 51-ft. setback from the existing bulkhead. This variance is based on practical difficulty with the land. The subject parcel as the Board can see from the survey is an irregularly shaped parcel. In addition to being an irregularly shaped parcel, the topography map shows that this parcel varies greatly in elevations. The bulkheading of this parcel is on its north side and part of its westerly side. The parcel is surrounded by water on three sides. The location of the house 51 feet from the existing bulkhead places the rear of the residence at the septic systems 100 feet from the wetlands are on the southerly and easterly portion of the premises, that portion which is not bulkheaded. This 100 ft. setback is required by the D.E.C. In addition, the house has been proposed on one of the higher elevations of the property, and this would be advantageous in Page, l9 - Hearing '1,-anscript 'Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals preventing any flooding of the proposed structure. At this time, I would ask that the Board accept Mr. Fred Wood who is a licensed real estate appraiser to testify as an expert on this application. CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Mr. Weber. How are you? MR. FRED WEBER: My name is Frederick Weber. I'm a licensed real estate appraiser having appraised real property in Suffolk County for the past 22 years. I have appeared before your Board previously. I believe the most recent was about three years and there was a change obviously in the Board Members since that time. CHAIRMAN: We're getting better looking. MR. WEBER: Yes; , I would grant that. The fairer sex is also present here at this Board. Ms. Aderesto had described the property and the topography, and the fact that the parcel is surrounding by water quite adequately so I won't be going into that in any great detail. But I would like to describe the area with regard to the zoning, lot width, lot size, and things of that sort. As you can see from the Suffolk County Tax Map which you have in front of you the subject property is significantly larger than any of the adjoining and surrounding properties by a factor of two in many cases. There are obviously larger parcels elsewhere within this community larger than the subject property, but in the immediate area this is one of the larger parcels, and as you have heard, it does have an area of 78,000 sq. ft. So the variance that's being requested is nominal. Two-thousand square foot variance, or actually 2-1/2 percent with regard to your ordinances. Page 4o - Hearing 2 ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board. of Appeals The adjoining parcels have varying style residences on them. We have a mixture of residences, and I do have some photographs to leave with You. that vary from single-family - I should say one-story residences, we have two-story, contemporary style residences, two-story colonials, and various configurations or branches. These dwellings as I see them vary in nature, I would guess from the oldest probably being somewhere about 25 to 30 years old. The newest being, having been constructed very recently. So we have an area that homogeneous with regard to its variations. There are varying styles of residences. Varying ages of residences. And varying sized size. So the subject property being a newer residence on a larger lot would fit in with the general scheme of things in the Paradise Point subdivision. It's my opinion therefore that based on the conformity that I've explained to you this evening that there would be no adverse effect on the character of the area should the variance be granted for the 2,000 sq. ft. relief in lot area. I further my opinion that there will be no physical change in the neighborhood, by the granting of this requested variance. It's further my opinion that there will be no adverse effect on the surrounding properties, immediately adjoining, or any of the surrounding parcels with regard to the reduction in value of those properties or with regard to the use and enjoyment of any of those parcels. It's my opinion that the residence will be constructed at this site will not detract from the neighborhood. In fact its location and lot size enhance the overall ° Page -/ - Hearing '1�anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals value of this location. my opinion is there will be no change and will have sufficient utilities and services available. With regard to the relief for the setback on the bulkhead. Your ordinances require 75 feet. What's proposed is 51 feet, and as indicated by Mrs. Aneresto, the topography of the site varies considerably from obviously the sea level along the shore lines, the three shore lines, to as great as, I believe, it's 16 feet. The residence is sited in such a way that it takes advantage of the high ground for several reasons: for view, also for minimizing the environmental impact on the site. You can see if we located the residence in other spots within the site, it would require more clearing and greater grade, which would have even a greater effect on the environment. , Based on the'- survey that you have in front of you of the adjoining properties, I believe that's owned by the Curcuru's and based on what I could observe in the field by walking the property and estimating - guestimating the setbacks of at least the adjoining residence to the east, that appears to be less than 75 feet. By my estimate which is crude, I would say it's between 55 and 60 ft. setback. I would further venture an opinion that that is probably true of other residences constructed in Paradise Point probably under prior zoning ordinances. It's my opinion in regard to the requested relief for setback that this again would not change the character of the area if this variance should be granted, and it would not have any adverse effect on the adjoining properties, nor would it physically change the character of the neighborhood. Page .?A - Hearing ,ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals It's my opinion further that there would be no adverse effect on the use of the enjoyment of the surrounding properties should this variance be granted. That would conclude my testimony, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to leave the Board with some. photographs of the properties that were mentioned in the immediate area, and I would be happy to answer any questions that the Board may have. CHAIRMAN: I. have one request from you, and we'll see if there are any questions first (from the 'audience) . You're welcome to give me the pictures. Thank you. MR. WEBER: Thank you. _ CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions of this real estate agent, broker? MEMBER VILLA: I have one question that I could ask. You're talking about value here and this Board, of course, when we entertain a variance we try to give a minimum amount of variance granted. I'm looking at the proposed house which is 76 feet wide and 76 feet deep, and it seems to be an excessive size building for the -. Isn't there a way that that could be reduced and get a greater setback from the bulkhead? MR. WEBER: That's always possible, a physical change in size, however, I would like to answer that in this way. The property as you see is a .very strategically placed parcel. It has waterviewof the. basin, it has actually three water frontages, and it has a spectacular view of the Southold Bay. The parcel itself as you know has a very large - has a great value. Based on market activity and Page Hearing -ranscript ' ' Regular Meeting of June 7, 1-995 Southold Town Board of Appeals sales in this location, it's probably somewhere between 400 and 500,000 dollars for the value of this parcel, as a buildable site. With that sort of land investment, we're interested in trying to relate to the structure that would be built on this parcel to the value of the parcel, so that would of course be a larger home. And I think it's a matter of preference in this case, but obviously a smaller home could be placed on this site, but I think that would be an undervaluation of the parcel based upon the great value of the site. There is no - in my opinion - there is no direct damage created to any of the surrounding properties by the size of the residence since the site is fairly well wooded. Both on the side facing the boat basin and on the east side of the property, so the size of the house would not be visible even to the neighbors, and even by the configuration, it would only be visible from the bay side itself. It would not be visible from the other-- MEMBER VILLA: Yes, but the setbacks are basically determined to try and protect our water quality. We're not worrying about the neighboring parcels as much as we worry about our waters out here. MR. WEBER: Yes, and I understand that. And I'm assuming, Mr. Villa, that the Suffolk County Water Authority - excuse me, Suffolk County Health Department would be assuring that the quality of the water would not be MEMBER VILLA: Well, they're taking care of the sanitary but the larger the house, generally the more activity is involved and everything that goes along with it. You're going to have, you know, a very expensive house. You're going to probably have very Pa,ge a�l - Hearing -ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals expensive landscaping, which means probably more cultivation, everything that goes along with it. That's also true but we have a single-family residence here. It does not contain any apartments or anything of that sort. MEMBER VILLA: I realize that. MR. WEBER: And if memory serves me right, I believe that are four bedrooms - excuse me, three bedrooms. Three bedrooms. So that in and of itself would limit the number of occupants in the house. But I understand the grounds would be greater because of' the size of it. MEMBER VILLA: I just look at the size of the house as being rather large. SECRETARY TO CHAIRMAN: , Do you know the square footage of the house? CHAIRMAN: Looking at it now, it's about 5,000 square feet (with decks, etc.) . MR. WEBER: It was pointed out to me that the association requires a minimum square foot home of 2,400 square feet. The area of this particular residence is 3200 square feet. So it is in excess. But it's not significantly larger than 2400 square feet which is already here with the garage. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, certainly 2400 sq. ft. is better than 3200. MEMBER WEBER: It'.s definitely smaller than 3200. Again, I go back to - previously, this, being a very large lot, 1.79 acres which is significantly larger than any of the parcels in the area, and if you've been, and I'm sure you've visited or are familiar with this site, there are some very large homes located in this community on Page .�5 - Hearing ,ranscript Regular. Meeting of June 7, 1995 ` Southold Town Board of Appeals very small - I shouldn't say very small, smaller lots than this particular parcel. In some regards, as small as half of the size. And I would venture while I did not attempt to measure the size of those residences, they are fairly large homes in there. Which I am sure, at least approach the 3,000 square foot size of this - this is a one-story residence, it makes it look larger. MEMBER DINIZIO: I would just like .to comment, you know, and carry one Bob's comments that, you know, the laws that we have currently - the up-zoning that we have was created for just that - to limit the needs for variances, and you know to make people build houses that comply and on larger lots - to save our water in all honesty. And, you know, to me this in my opinion of this whole thing from 1963, it appears to me that the intent of that lot was more for the community. And I further say that having a basin on there that's for the community, just convinces me more than the intent when this whole development was serious, that this piece of property would be for the community. I believe it even indicates it on one of the older maps. Let me just finish my comment first, and then you can go on. Also, the June 6th letter from the Planning Board seems to be unclear as to whether, and maybe you can comment on this, this second paragraph as to whether this is an actual lot or not, or whether there's a mistake made issuing this set-off, sort to speak. MRS. ADERESTO: The second paragraph of that letter? MEMBER DINIZIO: The first and second paragraphs. MRS. ADERESTO: Starting with accordingly? Paae A� - Hearing ..ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board. of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. MRS. ADERESTO: It just says there is no filed . map with the County Clerk bearing Health Department approval. In 1981 when the set-off was approved, the Planning Board did not require that the applicant obtain Health Department approval prior to granting approval, and therefore cannot require it retroactively in 1995. The Planning Board does not plan to take any further steps in regard to the (coughing into microphone) . . .as it is no longer within its jurisdiction. I think from reading the entire letter it is very clear that they feel no further steps need to be taken and then I had another copy of a memo that was sent to the Board of Appeals to the Planning Board with a notation by Melissa on the bottom: "As per Dick Ward no additional steps are being required by the Planning Board regarding this lot." BOARD SECRETARY: Yes, we have that. MRS. ANERESTO: So I feel that the Planning Board, and there's also an additional letter of the Planning Board that I think the Board has in their file. From May, that also deals with the issue of the. buildability of this lot and their own action that they took in 1981. CHAIRMAN: I just have some questions of this attorney after you answer his question. Then I want to go back to Mr. Wood after that, and then we'll - MRS. ANERESTO: Certainly, whoever you would like. We're both here. Page �J - Hearing ,ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regarding this lot being utilized by the association and for the association use and not a buildable lot, the association did not even have a legal easement until 1989. That's when the easement - and I have a copy of that here from Fidelity National Title, recorded in the County Clerk's. That's when the easement was given. BOARD SECRETARY: But they owned it (Paradise Point Association) at 'some period in time, right? MRS. ANERESTO: There's a different entity - it was no the association. It was in a corporation that was just basically the owners that now own it, owned it in a different entity. The association as you know it now is Paradise Point Association never did own this, and don't now. They have an easement over it only. This is owned by - we have presented the deeds - four owners, and we're under contract to buy the entire parcel subject to the easement, and it was never intended, and I think by the 1981 coming to this (Town) and .getting a C.O. as a buildable lot (sic), shows the owner's intent to always keep this as a buildable lot. At that time, the use was already used for parking in 1965. MEMBER VILLA: It didn't come to this Board. MRS. ANERESTO: To the Planning Board. MEMBER VILLA: How do you address the fact that Article VI of the Sanitary Code, County Center goes into effect in 1980 and said, "No lot shall be subdivided without health department approval"? MRS. ADERESTO: We have already applied for health department approval on this lot. They have accepted our application, and we will go to the Board of Review on this because of the salt-water Page .. - Hearing ..ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals problem in the area. They had not asked us for a subdivision. They recognized this as a separate lot, and we do have an application already filed. MEMBER TORTORA: In your contract of sale, Item #27, it says "purchaser understands and agrees that -the ground water available at the premises does not and cannot meet the standards as established and administered by the Suffolk County Department of Health Services for domestic use." MRS. ADERESTO: That's correct. We knew when we signed this contract - my client knew that they would have to put a reverse-osmosis system in because this whole point has had to go through this and the various houses have had to go through this, and we have done numerous tests to see if we could find any available water, but it is - it's salt water there. So we have to install a reverse-osmosis system to get fresh water, and we have to go to the Suffolk County Health Department Board of Review for approval of that system. MEMBER TORTORA: And you referred to this property being a CO I believe in 1981? MRS. ADERESTO: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: And as Bob Villa said the Article VI went in in 1980? MRS. ADERESTO: Yes. But we have applied , to the Health Department for this structure and they have accepted our application and accepted this as a separate lot. And they have not asked us to subdivide. Puke V1 - Hearing 1 ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Sduthold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: I'd like to see the original covenants and restrictions that went with this parcel? And previously you had said that you implied that somehow the Planning Board's action in 1981 would preempt any other agreement or covenants and restrictions that went with this parcel. Are you saying that, this parcel was not and never has been set aside as a park and playground area in the subdivision? MRS. ADERESTO: No, it has not to my knowledge. In 1989 we gave them an easement for parking. The boat basin is part of the Association. Yes. That's a separate tax lot, that's 84,000 square feet. MEMBER TORTORA: But this parcel has never, been a reserved area at any time? MRS. ADERESTO: Not to my knowledge, but with us here tonight and he will speak is John Sinning who is one of the owners, and certainly he knows a lot more about the history of that point than I could ever hope to learn in these few months that I have been involved, in this. And I'll defer to him on anything. I have the title report here. From Fidelity National Title. And a review of that shows the easement that spoke of in 1989, and we do have here the filed map in 1963 which you asked about, and there are covenants if you would like to see that. Would you like to see that? MEMBER TORTORA: Would you give us a copy of that for our records please? CHAIRMAN: Well, let her look at, it now and then we'll get a copy. MRS. ADERESTO: If. you like to, I can get another copy of that. Page 3.L' - Hearing -1 ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Are you going to continue with this (to Member Villa). Ok. I just want to finish with Mr. Wood (meaning Mr. Weber) , and then we'll go back with you, ok. Does anybody have any other questions of this real estate person? (None) Mr. Wood, I do remember you coming before us. You did a fine presentation tonight. I have only one request from you. Could you just supply us with your resume or your background? It doesn't have to be tonight. Just drop it -- MR. WEBER: I have it with me. CHAIRMAN: Oh, that's great. I appreciate that. MR. WEBER: I was in the process of answering the question. CHAIRMAN: Yes, surely. Let's finish that. MR. WEBER: We were talking about coverage and the size of the residence, and I wanted to point out that on your survey, your survey that was presented to you this evening, the coverage considering both the home and the pool is 7 0, approximately seven percent of the lot area. CHAIRMAN: Are you saying "seven" percent? MR. WEBER: 'Yes, seven percent. While your ordinance, and I'm referring to the R-40 Zoning in the zoning manual indicates a permitted coverage although we're not asking for, coverage of this extent, permits coverage of 20 percent. So the actual coverage of this particular case is actually one-third, approximately, of what is permitted in R-80. Now,, we realize the sensitivity of the location but we would ask that Board to consider this is a very special location as well for, providing a residence on this property which Page ,�� - Hearing L ranscript V,egular Meeting of June 7, 1995 • Southold Town Board of Appeals will give it justice, but I do understand the Board's concern about the size of the dwelling and the potential impact on the environment. Well we are submitting that it is less - MEMBER VILLA: Well we grant that but there's nothing to say that would be a 4500 sq. ft. house that you' can't go three stories high, or go in height rather than closer to the bay. Right? MR. WEBER: That's right. The applicant is asking. One-story, it's not two stories. CHAIRMAN: Ok, thank you, Mr. Weber. And you'll supply us with that. Thank you. Let's go back to Miss or Mrs -- MRS. ADERESTO: Miss. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions of the attorney? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. In the Planning Board letter and all throughout this whole file, this lot entitled, "clubhouse" it says in the first paragraph of the Planning Board letter, they did go back to even one of the original maps, there a lot there entitled, "clubhouse". MRS. ADERESTO: Yes, I can - do you want me to point it out to you? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, you don't have to because it's the lot we're talking about, I'm assuming. MRS. ADERESTO: No, it's not. That's the lot on the point. I think that'll clear things up for you too. It's over here. That's the point. MEMBER DINIZIO: Ok. MRS. ADERESTO: That's a• triangular shaped lot. Page _5!g - Hearing -ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Just a second. (to Board Secretary: Why did the PB address that? BOARD SECRETARY TO MEMBER DINIZIO: Because this was their minor subdivision, these four lots. MEMBER DINIZIO: Ok. Ok, thank you. MRS. ADERESTO: You're welcome. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Any questions from you, Bob at this point? Do you want me to continue? MEMBER VILLA: I'm following Jim's line of thinking, I know where he's coming from, I think. And the 1.7 acre lot that they're talking about in the first one was unnumbered. The question is why did they leave it unnumbered in that time. They left it unnumbered at that time because it wasn't a building lot. MRS. ADERESTO: It was described property. That's why. It wasn't part of the map, not because they -- and Mr. ' Sinning is here who can tell you also from his own knowledge and they're the owners and they now what they did and how they proceeded with it, but the way it was ekplained to me was it was just not part of the filed map. It was never intended for public use. It was intended to be later developed. MEMBER VILLA: But it was all part of the original parcel though, right? MRS. ADERESTO: Yes. BOARD SECRETARY: And also part of the marina? CHAIRMAN: Can I just have you come up here for one second? Bob, would you come over. Page -93 - Hearing. -ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, t 995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN. This is a copy of the old Tax Map from the old fiche card in Suffolk County. MRS. ADEREST.O: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Now, the most recent date on this map, I'm going to show it to my board members in a second, is 1985, all right. It shows the basin and this lot as one piece as 5.7 acres, and then subsequent to that, all right, we have what we have now today which is a lot which was created over in this area here, ok, and then the tax map reappeared where the number one is, and we now have what is before us today. Let me just show it to them. So, what you're saying to us in 1981 which existed - based upon the letters from the Planning Board and so on and so forth, is correct. That they recognized something there. But something subsequent to 1981 and in the area of present day is different based upon this map because we're talking about a lot that's 78,000 sq. ft. -. less than two acres, ok. We were showing 5.7 acres here. But what you are telling me is that these people that owned this property owned the 5.7 acres at that time, in this corporation name? MRS. ADERESTO: Yes. What the Planning Board doesn't refer to when you read one of their letters - let me read the exact letter to you. They identify the subject parcel as the lot they gave the C.O. on, and let me get that letter out because I think it's very important. (Pause) Ok. This is the May 9th memo from the Planning Board, and they do identify this particular lot as the subject of that C.O. , and they - and it says, on "June 1, 1981 the Planning Board approved the map dated May 11, 1981 for Paradise ' Page j - Hearing ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Point Corporation. The approval set-off a 2-3/4 acre lot entitled, 'Clubhouse' and a 1.7 acre unnumbered lot on Southold Bay directly to the east of Inlet Basin. The 1.7-acre lot is now known as Suffolk County Tax Map Map No. 1000-81-1-16.7. The Planning Board records do not show that the map or set-off was endorsed or recorded in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office. . . . " MEMBER VILLA: That's the point really. CHAIRMAN: That's the point we're bringing up. MEMBER VILLA: People can do anything by deed, but if it's not done legally it has no validity as far as the Town goes. MRS. ADERESTO: Well what happened was before they did it by deed they came to the Planning Board in 1981., And they established this lot, a 1.7-acre lot as a buildable lot. They didn't just "do" it. BOARD SECRETARY: But it's a marina, correct? MEMBER VILLA: That's not what's on the County Tax Map of 1985. MRS. ADERESTO: No, it's not the marina. The 1.7-acre lot is our subject premises. BOARD SECRETARY: There's a parking lot there, and the dockage, right? And that's all part of this 1985 lot. This is what they're saying. It's all one piece. Yes? MRS. ADERESTO: This 1.7-acre lot existed in 1981. MEMBER VILLA: Only by deed. MRS. ADERESTO: It existed by Planning Board also. They approved the set-off. Page Hearing ,ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY: We ' have a problem with your single and separate search because it's say that. It doesn't show the conveyances from 1981 on the search. There's something missing on here. MRS. ADERESTO: You want to know where it came from in 1981? BOARD SECRETARY: No, we need to have a search that shows all the conveyances since 1981. MEMBER VILLA: You see, the Planning Board can do a lot of things in writing, but if it's not followed through, and it's not filed with the proper agencies, in effect it has not happened. MRS. ADERESTO: Well, what Planning said was they didn't require it to be filed. That they cannot retroactively require it because it because in 1981 they did not require it to be filed with the Health Department or in the County Clerk's Office, and that they don't require it now because they can't do that retroactively. That's how-- MEMBER VILLA: But the County Clerk and the County Health are the legal entities that have bearing on this. MRS. ADERESTO: I have a single and separate search here that shows Paradise Point' Corporation conveyed to J. Lane Curry 37% interest, Gilman Hollenbeck 32%. Gary Sinning 29%. And John Chute 2%. That deed was dated October 29, 1981 recorded October 29, 1981 for the subject premises. Did you want to know who it came from prior to that? We have that here in the single and separate. BOARD SECRETARY: They don't show who the owners of 16.4 were in 1985. MRS. ADERESTO: 16.7? Page Hearing �ranscript k6gular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY: No. 16.4. 16.7 was part of 16.4. If you want to come back and look at this map again we -- CHAIRMAN: We can give you a copy of it. BOARD SECRETARY: Yes. MRS. ADERESTO: Well the reason the single and separate search does not show that is they don't show it as adjoining. They just show it Basin Road, Southold Bay, if you show me where it is-- CHAIRMAN: It emanated out of 16.4. BOARD SECRETARY: It has emanated out a parcel and it's not showing the parcel that it has come from. Take a look (referring to copy of partial search in file received when application was filed) . MRS. ADERESTO: I just need to know where 16.4 is. That's 16.8. BOARD SECRETARY: No. MRS. ADERESTO: In here. Ma'am. 16.4, that's the Basin and the top piece that you're talking about. It's all one parcel of land and it's not showing up on your search. CHAIRMAN: You see, the question is, how was 16.8 created which is the piece that's landward of the basin. And that would then tell us how 16.4 was created. MRS. ADERESTO: Well, how it was created, I believe, is in 1989 there's in my title report, you'll see, there's a deed wherein these four owners for the corporation of Paradise Inc. deeded over into the Association the roadways and an easement, and the boat basin, and that's how it was recreated as a separate tax lot. BOARD SECRETARY: Can you have that corrected to show the 16.4? MRS. ADERESTO: Well the tax map that I have shows it at 16.8. ' Page J - Hearing �ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY: Your talking about today. We're talking about 1985. CHAIRMAN: 16.8 is the separate lot down here. MRS. ADERESTO: The single and separate can't show a lot that doesn't exist anymore. CHAIRMAN: 16.8 still exists. CHAIRMAN: It's still there, the 16.8. MRS. ADERESTO: Yes, but she was requesting 16.4. 16.4 is now 16.8 and 16.7. BOARD SECRETARY:. No, it isn't. It's now 16.7 and 16.10. CHAIRMAN: 16.7 and 16.10. It's all three of those. MRS. ADERESTO: Oh, you're talking about the lot on the other side. MEMBER DINIZIO: The basin. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MRS. ADERESTO: The underwater land, I think, is 16.18. CHAIRMAN: 16.10. The lot west of it is 16.18. MRS. ADERESTO: (Pause) Yes. It is 16.10. BOARD SECRETARY: It's not showing up on the search. MRS. ADERESTO: I have it here as variance south and west 16.10 on the single and separate search. BOARD SECRETARY: That's not the one you have us. (Pause to check) . No, you didn't give us that one. MRS. ADERESTO: Do you want a copy of this? CHAIRMAN: Yes. BOARD SECRETARY: We were wondering why it wasn't -- Page 3.8 - Hearing -ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: I apologize for all the people who are waiting for the last hearing, but we will have to take a short recess here for a couple of minutes. MEMBER DINIZIO: Why don't we make a copy of that because I would like to look that over and -- BOARD SECRETARY: Yes, this is a different search than what was given to us. CHAIRMAN: We'll take a break. Four or five minutes and we'll be right back to everybody. I need a motion gentlemen and lady. MEMBER DINIZIO moved to take a short break for five minutes, seconded by Chairman Goehringer, and duly carried. 8:55 p.m. 9:00 P.M. Hearing reconvened on motion by Chairman Goehringer, seconded by Member Dinizio, and duly carried. CHAIRMAN: Is there anything else you have to add to the record? MRS. ADERESTO: No, unless the Board has any further -questions. CHAIRMAN: We are still disseminating information. And that's the problem that we have. We might have to reconvene this, I'm not really sure. MRS. ADERESTO: We also have, we have some people who want to speak in favor of this,, one of the owners that may help you with a great deal of the information you need. CHAIRMAN: Ok, thank you. Ok, for those persons who would like to speak in favor? Page 3Y - Hearing -ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals PETER COOPER (Attorney) : My name is Peter Cooper. I live in the area and I'm a member of the association, member of the board, and I represent the association and I am here to support the application for a variance. The Board of Association had a meeting on the 29th of May and voted to support the application. The interest of the Association we feel are accommodated by the presence of the easement and we feel that the development of the point would be consistent for the purposes of the association. We have no interest in any further ownership or activity on the lot itself, and so we would like to see it developed. CHAIRMAN: Let me just ask a question. You are a member of the association? MR. COOPER: Right. CHAIRMAN: And the easement that exists over this piece of property will be a continuous easement, but are you actually saying that none of the property owners have an interest in gaining access to the basin? MR. COOPER: No, no. We have - the association has an easement on the . property along the perimeter of the Basin, on out to the channel to the point. And that's for the general purposes of the association. CHAIRMAN: Ok. MR. COOPER: And we make use of that easement at the moment to get access to the dock that leads out into the Basin where the floats are and for the boats. Page fB - Hearing .ranscript Regular Meeting -of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: And as long as that easement is held in perpetuity, everything else is ok. MR. COOPER: Right. We have -- our interests are totally accommodated as far as we are concerned. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Oh, wait. We have a question. MEMBER VILLA: Are you allowed to drive over that easement all the way or just walk it, or what? MR. COOPER: Right now there's an extension of the road. The association owns the road which -- and the road extends on into the lot, and we can drive down there and the shoulder of the road, or we park, we get on down the path onto the dock into the basin. And since we do have the easement, the new owner of the lot wouldn't be able to affect that. We would continue to use the easement. MEMBER VILLA: You have the right - the right to the easement allows you to drive and everything else over it or just access through it? MR. COOPER: No, drive if you wish. MEMBER VILLA: Ok. And park? BOARD SECRETARY: Is there a parking lot in the easement, or is there a parking lot elsewhere? MR. COOPER: Well there's no parking lot in the sense that there's a parking lot behind this building. BOARD SECRETARY: Parking area. MR. COOPER: The shoulder is wide in that area and .cars could park there. There's also a dirt road that goes down and around - shoots ' Page /: - Hearing eanscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals around by where the well is, and we can parking our cars down there then. We've only got a dozen boats. And so it's really only on heavy duty weekends like the 4th of July that you'll see more than two or three cars down there. BOARD SECRETARY: Would they parking along the water where the easement is? MR. COOPER: No. Down along the road as you see on the map at the end of the lot. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Who else would like to speak? ED CURCURU: This is not "for." CHAIRMAN: That's fine. Be careful of -the wire there, sir. MR. CURCURU: Yes, I see it. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, the Board. My name is Ed Curcuru and I apologize for not having a prepared memo, but I came from Florida in the summertime and they can have Florida in the summertime as far as I'm concerned. To make a long story short I have been a resident of Paradise Point since 1966. I've been the Treasurer, Secretary and Vice-President, and last year did not take the Presidency because of illness. That's beside the point. I think I have history as much as anyone has. I'm an adjacent neighbor - hopefully to Mr. Miller. I met him. He's a fine gentleman. I have seen the house. It is a big house. It's a very one. One-story. I have no objections at 51 feet. I've already talked with John Sinning about that and with one of the members. ( ) As far as the map itself, I have a concern, I have not had a clear answer from anyone about the jetty that we own at Page . - Hearing .ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals the end of that easement. We will not be able to drive around the basin totally. We can only drive up to as far as where the boats are. The rest will be some kind of an access path for walking. So it will not be as we have now, a clear cut path right to the jetty for vehicles, which is a concern for some of us. The concern I have is that jetty. I understood from some (asociation) board members, and I was not at the meeting because I was in Florida, that that square footage of that jetty was calculated in the total square footage of what they call Lot 1. I presume that Paradise Point owns that. I know the Bay is owned by the Town. But we put the stay, we put all the stuff in way back in 1972 roughly. We paid $16,000 for it. We funded bonds which were paid by the Association, so presumption is that we own it. I've heard that basically speaking that a title company were to make a mistake and include that, and the map shows it, as possibly one piece of land to the ( ) plus this would be incorrect. So that's one thing I think we need to do some research one. And I think we need research - I have not had a chance to talk to an attorney about it. Because I just talked to Peter this morning and it's first chance I really had to get at it. CHAIRMAN: I have not the most current map but I have the 1985 map from the Suffolk County Real Property Tax Service. It does not show the spit. MR. CURCURU: It does not show the spit. CHAIRMAN: Does not show the spit. Page 3 - Hearing L ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CURCURU: But the one that you have, I believe, that was given to us by the attorney for the seller. It .does show one complete area here of the jetty and, my only objection is I don't want that jetty going to the ownership of the new owner. Now some can say basically, well, that's not happening - that's not so. But I heard from two sources on the (association) board yesterday, it was calculated. So I ask that further research be done on that particular issue. I don't know the answer and I'd like to have time to get an attorney to study that, to present it to the association at our meeting on July 4, 1995. I think we have to talk about this. There are other issues, I think, that we see maybe differently than the attorney for the buyer. And therefore I'm asking you to postponement it until we get things clarified. There are other people, I think, that would like to speak_. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. We will certainly take it under advisement. RICK ALBERI: My name is RickAlberi. I live on Paradise Point and our concern is, to park facilities there for the boat basin on the easement right now only permits about four or five cars, and we feel it should be a lot more. We also - they're only about a dozen boat slips and they're at least 24 members or thereabouts in the membership. And we feel that eventually many more people will want boat slips and we'll have to provide for those. So we need more parking facilities and we would like to delay the decision on the variance until these questions are settled. CHAIRMAN: Sure. Thank you, sir. Page �44 - Hearing �ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals HELEN ALBERI: I'm Helen Alberi and I reside at 4345 Paradise Point Road, of course I'm on the Paradise Point myself. I have been an owner of my property for the past 30 years. We have used the Basin Road which goes down to our Boat Basin and the turnaround I have myself for approximately 30 years. The turnaround is being cut off, and as a result we have no access plan to turn around in the future. Even the light pole has been taken down. We must have the ability to use the boat basin and to be able to turn our cars around, sir, and we must have a postponement of this variance in order to look into the further - into it further with the Association Members. CHAIRMAN: Can I ask you, Mrs. Alberi, will you be getting counsel to do so - someone to represent you? MRS. ALBERI: I think we're going to have to. I think the Association might have to, yes. CHAIRMAN: I would appreciate it if when you come-- I appreciate your here and mentioning it, but you're raising issues that are issues that are countermount to the case and therefore it's important that you be represented by someone. MEMBER DINIZIO: Can I ask a question, Jerry? CHAIRMAN: To whom? MEMBER DINIZIO: I don't know who to ask this question. I guess I can ask you. Are you Mr. Sinning? JOHN SINNING: My name is John Sinning. Page �S - Hearing �ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Can I just ask you a question before you even - the lady just commented about the easement. I'm assuming that the association met and agreed to this easement, is that' - and someone signed this agreement? MR. SINNING: The association Board of Directors and their informal attorney has reviewed the easement. They feel that it more than adequately serves the members of the association. MEMBER DINIZIO: Has it been signed? Is it the actual easement now? MR. SINNING: The easement has been in place since 1985. MEMBER DINIZIO: 1989. MR. SINNING: 1989, I'm sorry. MEMBER DINIZIO: And it is an easement voted on by constituted body of associat-- MR. SINNING: Right in the deed. MEMBER DINIZIO: Ok. MR. SINNING: Peter Cooper is the one that reviewed it. Several other people have reviewed it and they feel the deeds are in order. BOARD SECRETARY: Are there minutes of the meeting, to show the PETER COOPER.: I'm not sure what the question is. The easement itself is contained in a deed in 1989 which you have a copy of and it was filed in the County Clerk, and that's now a matter of record. The association has accepted the easement, I guess, as the transferee, but there's no meeting that I'm aware of on the easement Page - Hearing .ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals itself. The meeting that was held was the Board of Directors back last Fall and in October, excuse me, November and another meeting that we had on May 29th where we took a position on the variance - first we took a position in October of whether we were in favor of having the point developed, the lot development, and again we took it on the 29th of May on the actual variance. I have minutes of the meeting of May 29th if it would be of any help. MEMBER DINIZIO: I just wanted to know if I needed to invest time to find out if we have a legal easement here. I just wanted someone to state to me that the easement is legal. MR. COOPER: I have a copy here - MEMBER DINIZIO: That's ok. No, no. If it's in the paper, I'll find it. I just wanted someone to answer that question for me. MRS. ADERESTO: It's with the title report I gave you. MR. COOPER: I might point out that the reason that was done by easement rather than deed back in 1989 was we couldn't afford to reduce the square footage of that lot. The owners of the lot continue to pay taxes on the entire thing so it's pretty clear that they weren't intending to give away the lot. It would make no sense. CHAIRMAN: Ok. JOHN SINNING: As I said my name is John Sinning, and I've lived on Paradise Point since 1949. I built the first docks that went in there when I was 18 years old. I have a pretty good idea of the • Page Hearing ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals history of the place. I served in various positions on the Paradise Point Association including service as President for, I believe, 10 years. I am here to hopefully answer any questions that anybody may have. I should come in,with a prepared speech. I didn't realize it was going to be this complicated. CHAIRMAN: I think we're a little overwhelmed, Mr. Sinning, I think at this point, and we'd like to understand all the data that's here. So I'm not taking anything away from you in not asking you a question at this point. When we reconvene, I'm sure we'll have many questions, and you know, some - maybe you can answer, some someone else can answer, so. Why don't we reserve you for that particular time. MR. SINNING: I also have the facts that I got today from the other adjoining neighbor of the Boat Basin, the Maynards, and I only have one copy of it, but you can read it. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Appreciate it. MR. SINNING: I also, if I may, point out that I own a very small share of that lot. MRS. Mr. Maynard is leaving. He had home up for sale I just want you to know that sir. CHAIRMAN: Did you want to ask a question of Mr. Sinning? MEMBER TORTORA: I just wanted to know if you know the answer to this gentleman's question if the jetty was calculated in the total? MR. SINNING: As far as I know, it was. Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: It was. MR. SINNING: Yes. Page I/ - Hearing _ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: We thank you very much, sir. MR. SINNING: Ok. If there is anything else I can help you with-- CHAIRMAN: Would you like to wrap it up, Mrs. Aderesto? Thank you, Mr. Sinning. We're going to recess and take the information in, and we will reconvene and that's it at this point. If we have any specific questions that we need of you, we'll fax it to you by letter rather than send it through the mail, and we'll-- MRS. ADERESTO: Do you have any idea when your next meeting - would it beyond the next meeting? CHAIRMAN: Oh definitely. If we have a meeting before that, we'll attempt to put you on that one. Ok? MRS. ADERESTO: Mr. Miller has been in this process (buying a home) for a long time. Renting houses .out here is a little costly. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion recessing this until the next regularly scheduled meeting. BOARD SECRETARY: Would you add the date of July 12th? CHAIRMAN: That meeting is July 12, 1995 and for any reason if we attempt to have a meeting prior to July 12th, and we can put you on we would certainly put you on. Thank you very much for_ your courtesy everyone. MEMBER VILLA: Seconded. The meeting was recessed for a continuation on July 12, 1995. Vote of the Board: Ayes: All. v� ' Page - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 9:12 P.M. Appl. No. 5E-4246 - LKC CORP. (also referred to as OCEAN CITY or JASTA, INC. MR. CHAIRMAN: This hearing is pursuant to Resolutions of the Board of Appeals adopted on June 13, 1994 and on May 15, 1995 to calendar and consider the use and operation of the establishment known as "Ocean City" and pursuant to Condition No. 6 of ZBA Decision rendered June 13, 1994 in which a Special Exception use will expire on July 31, 1995 for said drinking establishment and for which said Special Exception is listed as an allowable use under the provisions of the Zoning Code at Article XI, Section 100-101B, subject to specific conditions and requirements pertaining thereto at 6955 Main Road, Laurel (near the intersection of Bray Avenue, Old Main Road, Mattituck) and it's located in the B General Business Zone District. The tax ID No. is 1000-122-6-26. I have before me a variety of documents. I have not reviewed them all because we did receive some today. I have copies of the original sii.e plan and this in effect the original file and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I assume we will open with the attorney Mr. Goggins, is he here? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: No, he's not here, Jerry. MR. CHAIRMAN: He's not the attorney. Who is representing, is anybody representing you, Mr. Lebkuecher? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is Mr. Goggins your attorney? Page 5O - Hearing Transcript kegular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. LEBKUECHER: He couldn't make it tonight. lie has a conflict with the other parties, so John McNulty is our representative, he couldn't make it tonight. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, so we will then proceed with the discussion with you and we will then continue. We'll go from there. Could I ask you to come up to the mike, if you would. Jim, could I ask you to raise your right hand please. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth to the best of you knowledge, please? JAMES LEBKUECHER: I do. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you and state your name for the record. MR. LEBKUECHER: James P. Lebkuecher. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Do you want to tell us why you think this Board shall continue this business which is the nature of the special exception of this establishment for another year or whatever. MR. LEBKUECHER: You know it's hard to run a business. You know, a new business now within a year and you know time ---- MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, tell us some of the things that you know have been up against and ---- MR. LEBKUECHER: Well we've had some bumps you know, ups and downs. A lot of downs in the first year but now we're starting to you know take care of the problems. MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask you a couple of questions. This will be reduced to writing so your attorneys will have copies of it. Can you tell us what the nature of, I have no prepai-od text OK and this is I'm shooting from the heart, OK, from the mind and I'm not here to do anything but just to question you. Can you tell us what 1 t Page Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals happened with the nature of the easement that you had or the agreement that you had with the adjoining neighbor on the west, Mr. Crenshaw because you had shown us a lease that you had with him and you know the perpetuation of that lease didn't last very, very long. MR. LEBKUECHER: That's right. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, can you tell us what happened? MR. LEBKUECHER: Well, the lease from the Planning Board, they, you know in the beginning they were shown that I needed the extra parking for the CO and then as we got into it you know I went and approached Joe Crenshaw for the lease, I received it and during the Planning Board sessions we found we didn't need it anymore and that was their decision so I kept the :lease and money that was given to Joe, he kept, and I had a couple of months with him and it expired and that's when I went from ---- MR. CHAIRMAN: Because I thought it was, you know, a continuing lease. I mean I could be wrong. MR. LEBKUECHER: Well it was going to be but the Planning Board didn't know. We found that we didn't need the extra parking. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: At the original hearing wasn't it said it was a two year lease? MR. CHAIRMAN. I thought it was, yeah. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Yeah, that was a condition in the original special exception permit. The two years lease to accommodate overflow parking-- BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I don't think -- Page Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Yeah, it is, I have a copy of the original right here. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: So, what you're saying is that the Planning Board said it wasn't necessary? MR. LEBKUECHER: No, that was the Planning Board's decision that the extra parking, parking on site was a enough. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: When was that, after the Zoning Board made a decision, or before? MR. LEBKUECHER: Yeah, that was after the a, th�i t was the final decision from the --- BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Well, I have a copy of our hearing. It says the special exception permit that was granted, the facts and findings and determination and it says; the owner and/or operator of this proposed establishment shall provide overflow parking must be available on an adjoining parcel. Presently this permit is subject to the limited two-year lease for overflow parking or) the Crenshaw parcel to the west. It says, parking shall be limited to this site and the adjoining Crenshaw parcel during the term of the lease agreement without parking along the shoulder of the Main Road or unauthorized areas. So, it was very clearly part of our permit, nothing that the Planning Board could do would chai.tge that. What about valet parking? How have you been doing with valet parking? MR. LEBKUECHER: I don't have valet parking. I have parking attendants right now. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: How often do the parking attendants - • 4 1 Page 53 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. LEBKUECHER: Once a Friday. Once every Friday. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA.: I looked over, I'm a new Board Member and I looked over the conditions of the permit that were granted you during the last year and I have 37 police incident reports here before me, and a lot of them have to do with parking violations, which is very keyed, overcrowding in your permit. The permit that you got from this Board you talked, you specifically said, that you would limit the capacity on site to 75 people and yet we have complaints from the neighbors, and we have incident reports that say that didn't occur. Why is that? This is a year later. MR. LEBKUECHER: If you don't mind I don't f.'eel comfortable talking without my lawyer. I can't -- MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me say something. We're not, we're not setting you up Here, OK. This is not a setup, alright. MR. LEBKUECHER: I understand that. MR. CHAIRMAN: There's no prepared text. We're asking you a question. If your attorney was here or not here, we. would still ask you the question. If you refuse to answer it, then, that's basically it, alright. We are going to reconvene this hearing, special hearing, OK, only for you, alright and as long as you don't tell the people out there, I'm kidding, because if we can fit ahem in, we will try to fit them in, OK, on June 29, which is a 'Thursday night, alright, and that is it. There's no, there's nothing else, you know. I don't care who's representing you, I don't care wliu s representing you sir, in the back, I want you here, let's get it doiie, we're going to finish it, alright. Please don't ever come before this Board and Page ,54 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals not tell me, I understand you don't want to talk without your attorney, but don't tell me you don't want to talk to us. We are all people here. There are no attorneys here, OK. We're all business people, or people that have worked in industry, alright. We're down to earth people and that's basically it. We just want to hear how it's coming down and that's it, alright, just so you're aware of that, OK. (Unidentified Person) : Can I speak to you for a few minutes? MR. CHAIRMAN: In one second. You have anythir)7 else you want to say to the Board? MR. LEBKUECHER: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody else have an.ythint; they'd like to address of that? Jim? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I sit here on the 29th though. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Thank you Jim, for your franii--mess. Sir? KENNETH COUDREY; I'm Kenneth Coudrey, I'm the President of LKC Corporation. I just want, I'm looking around for a property to accompany this business, that I, you know, I'm trying to buy a piece of property in the area or lease a property to lake care of the overflow of cars. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. KENNETH COUDREY: James does, you know, I've been here a lot of times and I've been to other Night Clubs. You know, actually it costs, I mean, you know, one guy hurt his thumb fixing a tire. I mean it's odd that I've been looking, you know, I only, I don't go through the files. I just had a moment to look at it before but it h I Page J5 - Hearing' . .-anscript R.egular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals seems very odd that all, there's so many of them that built up in May prior to this hearing, when prior to the year he had like one report in the month of November is a ( ) . February he had a problem, you know, I mean it just seems like he's been having an accident report, once a month and all of a sudden prior to this hearing, he's got 10 or 15 of them, 20 of them. I just find that a little hard. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, the only thing I want to be honest with you, sir, is that again, I shoot from the hip, I tell it. like it is, OK and I think you know me, OK. KENNETH COUDREY: I do. MR. CHAIRMAN: Somewhere in November, alright, I happen to be an Officer in the Rescue Squad in the Town Hamlet of Mattituck, alright, and there was a stabbing incident that went on. MR. COUDREY: At the club? MR. CHAIRMAN: At the club. I think it was around 11:19 or there about, alright. Notwithstanding that fact, alright, things happen, it's understandable. The problem that I have is that in one of these reports, not, again not even dealing with that aspect because we transported that person to the hospital. MR. COUDREY: What caused the knifing? Just a figli t? MR. CHAIRMAN: Someone stabbed the gentleman iu the, in your establishment. Not your establishment, you're the owner of the property. In one of these reports it refers back to. a 15 year old, alright and a 17 year old. I can't find it right away. MR. COUDREY: Men or women? Page Hearing - -anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: I believe it was a female. This concerns me greatly, alright. I have spent my entire life trying to help people and most people may not understand that but I do. I've been a Fireman in that town for 27 years and an Officer in the Rescue Squad and in the EMT with a New York Certification with three certifications and I'm extremely concerned about that. That's one area. We will take some testimony from some people tonight who you know may not be able to make the 29th hearing so we'll deal with that on that aspect, OK. I did forget to swear you in and I apologize for that. However, you did say everything you said was true to the best of your ability. MR. COUDREY: You know that's a very unfortunate thing when someone gets stabbed of course. You know it's Bard to control people. MR. CHAIRMAN: No ,question about that. MR. COUDREY: You know and James has bounces there and you know he does his part. I mean, you drive down the street you can, you know, someone can walk out, you can kill somebody. Those are accidents. I mean people getting knifed and muggE::d all over the place. I mean, you know, it, it's a sin to close someone down because, you know, because two people took their wager out in his place. I mean they could have took their anger over here. I mean if I don't like somebody or somebody don't .like me they could stab me in front of this place. I go outside and get mugged or shot, something like that, so, it is a terrible thing but terrible things happen all over this country. Page Hearing -.-anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: No question about it. My concern is, OK, and I will pose the concern again, straight forward, that w4en you, as the owner, he, as the applicant, came before this Board, we had settled on a figure, I don't care if it was 75 individuals, or 75 seats, OK. It was brought to my attention that there was suppose to be, you know. It was brought to my attention that this was suppose to be a sports bar. Now, I went there one evening after a c�fll with a couple of my friends and we were probably the only people in the place, but it was rather late, OK, right after they had opened. However, during the incident of November of 1994, there were many, many people there. We also have a report from at least one Police Sergeant from the Southold Town PD, who has told us that there was in excess of 200 people in the place at the time he was in the place. My concern is that this is not a sports bar. . This is for all intensive purposes a night club, OK. Neither the parking nor the site, although you've done a beautiful job on the l)uilding do not lend itself to what we had agreed to in the special permit and that's what I want addressed on the 29th. I don't care if it's by your counsel, his counsel, or anybody, that's the problem that we have. Also, we had requested from the Town Board to deE l with New York State DOT which they very nicely did for us and a portion of County Road 25 --- MR. LEBKUECHER: The signs you're talking about? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, 25 will be logistically shut o(T from parking and I assume that that is going to in a few months. Whenever they get a chance to do so, alright and I think that's the area from the Page Hearing _.-anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals bridge passed Kreiger Well on that side. We have a letter from DOT. We do applaud the Town Board and we appreciate their cooperation on this one. The next issue is, you know, I mean, so it's a violation of the Health Department Permit in excess of 75. It's in excess of parking or excess parking, not on site which we're extremely concerned about, plus what other nature of the excess is causing. Not only the parking problems but it appears that the club is overcrowded and that's what concerns us because it violates the other two areas that we're talking about. MR. COUDREY: I know Jim refuses a lot of. people. Yoiz know, I mean sometimes it's like you throw a party, you know, you invite and then some extra people come, I mean he turns t:liem away, you know. He refuses them but sometimes they hang outside and that nature. MR. CHAIRMAN: But there's one other problem too. We had talked about and you did I think, install air conditioning in this establishment. There's a report in here from a Mrs. Bowling who lives approximately 75 feet from the bridge, the railroad bridge where she complained to Southold P.D. about the noise. This woman just on an estimate on my part has got to live 600 feet away from this establishment. 500 feet anyway because their 100, foot lots and there's four lots after your piece and then we have the piece ELI rents or now a doctor rents. MR. COUDREY: To the noise with respect to loud band playing, cars honking, because the building is pretty sound proofing. Page JW. - Hearing �-anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: I did not approach her on that aspect. She is not in the audience. I happen to know Mrs. Bowling, but I'm telling you that that is the situation. MR. COUDREY: I find it, you know, I mean he, before the place opened, he blared his music and you couldn't hear from the street. So, I don't know, you know, maybe it was honking or something like that. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, we have all of those things and that's what we're concerned about. So, if you don't mind we'll run on to the people that may not be able to make it on the 29th and we will then be here. We will commence the hearing approximately 7:15 and we will go from there and we do appreciate your corning. Is there anybody in the audience a, first I think it would behoove us to speak to a, we have a member from PD but, if you wouldn't mind one second, sir, if we could just speak to the Building Inspector that inspected the place. Mr. Fish is there anything that: you would like to say again raising your right hand is there anything, everything you are about to say is the truth to the best of your l,znowledge. GARY FISH: Yes, it is. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anything you would like to say tonight or would you like to reserve until the 29th. GARY FISH: I will be here the 29th and you kind of said everything there. I think that Mr. Chairman, I personally recommended to the Board, all Members of the BOM'd to definitely withhold special exception because there are numerous violations and I just feel that the disposition of the people that own the .Page "l.) - Hearing -eanscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals establishment is basically that it has been proven over, over and over again that they will not and have no intentions of complying with the special exception so I really don't think that there's anything left to do --- MR. CHAIRMAN: I just want, I want to refer to, un or about the November incident, you were not, you were also on the ambulance with me on that stabbing? GARY FISH: That's correct. MR. CHAIRMAN: That's correct and Mrs. Tortora would like to ask ---- MR. COUDREY: It's a pretty volatile situation too. It was not just someone was stabbed. It was a very excited, it was dangerous. MR. CHAIRMAN: I think quite honestly, the gentleman, you might MR. COUDREY: It is not a sports bar. MR. CHAIRMAN: The gentleman that was stabbed that night could have been very seriously hurt. MR. COUDREY.: Oh? of course. MR. CHAIRMAN: I mean he was bleeding profusely. '.Thank you. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Could I ask you a couple of questions, Gary, if you don't mind. GARY FISH: Sure. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I read your letter here. I also read all of the complaints from the Police Department and asked to get copies of specific violations you saw. B.I. GARY FISH: What steps I took that particular night. Page - Hearing _ .-anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, on any night, any iiight you saw. GARY FISH: I've only, I've only been in there one night and I made that one visit and knowing that their special exception was coming up for review or to be renewed, basically that was my, that was my step was to --- BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: What? BUILDING INSPECTOR GARY FISH: To issue that: memo to the Zoning Board of Appeals that they do not renew their special exception. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, but what are you basing this on? What documentation do you have to state, to make the statement you made? BUILDING INSPECTOR GARY FISH: My own observation. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: What do you normally do when you see a violation? B.I. GARY FISH: What I normally do when I see a violation? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. B.I. GARY FISH: I notify the owner. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: OK, did you do that? B.I. GARY FISH: Yes, verbally. MR. CHAIRMAN: And can I just add your principal Building Inspector did post an occupancy limit last week I believe at this establishment. B .I. GARY FISH: Yes. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, but this letter is dated May 17th. Page - Hearing _�anscript ` Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm just saying what was done subsequent to his investigation of the premises and I think we should leave it at that point, you know at this point if you don't mind. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, I would like to know, I just would like to see some documentation as to our special. exception was enforced and something that tells me from the towi.i that we have violations of our special exception. Now, my opinion, the Police Reports could be any bar in town. In my opinion. Statements go on all the times, like the gentleman said, not near my house, but certainly near bars and so do drunks doing their thing and marijuana people. BUILDING INSPECTOR GARY FISH: In operation under special exception by Zoning Board of Appeals limited to 75 people? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I have no documentation tiere at all that says that there's a violation of that. Not from the person who is suppose to be enforcing that. INSPECTOR GARY FISH: What do you mean? From me.? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I assume that if we have a condition in our special exception --- INSPECTOR GARY FISH: I state right in that memo that on that night that I-- BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: How many people diet you see that night, Gary? Or how many people ----- B.I. GARY FISH: I would say approximately 200. I didn't count 1, 2, 3. There were approximately 200 people. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: And our permit specifically says 75? Pra.ge Hearing _ -anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals B.I. GARY FISH: That's correct. There's a violation of that special exception. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I just don't understand what the procedure is here when we, when you have a violation of a special exception. Do you write a memo? B .I. GARY FISH: Do I write a memo? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: That's what you did. B.I. GARY FISH: I did write a memo. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Right, but did you document it in any other way? B .I. GARY FISH: No. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Are you required to? GARY FISH: I don't believe so. MR. CHAIRMAN: Would I be correct in saying that you, this is not a court, that you went back to your principal building inspector and informed him of what you saw. B.I. GARY FISH: Oh! sure. MR. CHAIRMAN: And then he told you or somewhere you wrote the memo. B.I. GARY FISH: Sure. MR. CHAIRMAN: And subsequent to the memo the principal building. inspector went over and re—posted the 75 persons in the place. Is that the correct situation. GARY FISH: Right. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, can we leave it at this point? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, we'll have to. Page G7 - Hearing _ anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, thank you so much. I appreciate it and we'll see you on the 29th. INSPECTOR GARY FISH: OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Demopoulus do you have something you'd like to say? How are you tonight sir? MR. DEMOPOULUS: My name is Tom Demopoulus from Krieger Well Pump. I'm representing the owner of Kreiger Well Pump. I'm the manager there. I'm the guy who goes down there every weekend and look at the property. I check it out Friday night, I check it out Saturday morning, I check it out Saturday night, I check it out Sunday morning and I sent a letter out to the Building Department in reference to these problems we've been having there. It says we have an ongoing problem here at Kreiger Well Pump. Last year a new business sprang up at the lot to the west of us. This business is called Ocean City. It seems they have quite a crowd at night. The parking available at Ocean City is insufficient. People have been using all nearby businesses to park. We've even put up parking barriers in front of the office only to find them taken down the next morning. Along with that problem we have to fleece the area for beer bottles and cans, food wrappers, paper bags, broken glass, etc. , after every evening session they hold. A secondary problem has us concerned. Someone has put up a NYNEX pay phone right at the edge of the property. Actually on the adjacent property but about a foot or two from our property line. Everyone is using our parking lot to park while Using the phone. This includes travelers, business persons, truck drivers, delivery people, etc. Page jp - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals There have been too many instances where we couldn't leave through our gate because of the cars using our parking lot to make a phone call. Large semi trailers have parked in front blocking the whole driveway. When we get a delivery truck to drop off our merchandise they can't back in or pull out because there's a car in the way or something is in the way. We have one incident where a vehicle couldn't back in, tried to back in around a van that was parked there, couldn't quite make it, had to pull out again, almost caused an accident, cars ( ) to the west. The first problem we feel shouldn't even exist because of the lack of parking, parking at their site. They don't have enough parking. The business shouldn't be allowed to exist if there isn't proper parking. The people who own or run Ocean City approached us when they first opened asking us if they could use our parking lot. We said no and the reason for that is because it goes back about 12 years ago when they had a business there. Probably the last business there. It's been vacant all that time. They were using our parking lot and driving over the lawns leaving beer bottles and the owner put up barriers there on certain parts of the property. He tried to stop them from driving across the lawn. So, when this came up he said, no we're not going to allow parking here, we know the kind of problem we're going to have. So, basically what we're dealing with there is a mess to our parking lot every night. Actually we ( ) . It's been going on since they've been opened. Not through the winter if they were closed during the winter and it started up again in May. It seemed like a kind of forgotten for a while. All of sudden in May it got a r ,Page �f? - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals really bad again. This time we got graffiti, we have graffiti on one of our "No Parking" sites and our air conditioner outside. We've had cars overnight. We called the police on that. Som( times we never called them, they got there in the morning, you ktiow, before we called the police. The lot adjacent to Ocean City, which has a gate to it where we keep our equipment, we find broken beer bottles in the rig in the parking lot. This goes on every weekend. Just to give you an example here I started taking notes here, one morning I think it was May 13th, I'm not sure of my dates herE�, it might be a little bit off, but I think it was about three weeks ago or so, we found a mess of bottles and cans Saturday morning in our other lot which is to the, to the east. of our building which is adjacent to the easement there. On the 14th Sunday morning I went down there and checked things out, there was couple of kid,; sleeping in a parked car. They have sleeping bags and that was what I saw at first and then I walked to the front of the building I here were some kids wrapped in blankets sitting out in front of Ocean City. I have no idea what went on that night but that's where they were. Very strange. The next weekend, May 20th, I called the Police because there were roof tiles laying over on our adjacent lot. I don't know where they came from. I .couldn't figure it out. First. I looked up, I said the roof tiles were missing off their building. 'There is a back porch which is about two feet away from the roof. * I guess what happened is some kids were up there and they saw some fun and .P,age �7 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals they tore the roof tiles off and were throwing them against our building. MR. COUDREY: No, the shingles blew off from the wind - and I called a roofer - and the top of the thing, the shingles were ripped off the top. MR. DEMOPOULOUS: Well, this wasn't from the top. This was an area right next to an outside balcony, maybe two feet. away. So it's obviously someone took them and heaved them because the tar stuck right to the wall. It's still there. You can go there and look at it any time you want to. On the 21st, Sunday morning, I went down t1wre 8:30 in the morning and saw a whole bunch of cars pulling in fliere, and said, "What's going on here?" Went back home. CHAIRMAN: This is the 21st day of May. MR. DEMOPOULOUS: The 21st of May, right. I dame back about 9:30 and our whole lot was filled up. It was filled up. And kids all over the place. And I asked some of the kids whet was going on, you know, kind of nice, and they said, "Oh this is after-hours party." After-hours party. Kids from somewhere back west. Not from around here. And of course, if you read the l)aper, that was the. famous day of the drug bust there. And drt.tg bust in the parking lot, and one down the street on Bray Avenue. Probably the culmination of all these things happening. This is probably the biggest thing I've seen going on down there. It's in the police reports. Page Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals May 27th there were some more beer bottles in our adjacent lot. This goes on during the weekend. This is not - you know, I'm just reading the notes here. This has been every weekend that they have been open, on weekends. It's kind of funny, but I noticed in the last couple of weeks it has been kind of clean around here. It seems like maybe it's in preparation for this hearing. The only thing I wanted to say is we don't think that this is the type of business that you should want in there. It's the wrong kind of business for this, and any area. It has been quiet as a lamb for many, many years we've been there, and all of a sudden it looks like Woodstock. It's unbelievable. MR. COUDREY: Can I just say something. CHAIRMAN: Yes, in a second. MR. DEMOPOULOUS: We don't think there should be a criteria for a special exception - shouldn't be a criteria of being able to use a parking lot nearby. Because we know that that can be dumped at any time. If an owner gets mad at the people using the lot and then this stuff. ( ) is going to stop us from parking there. But we think that you should own the property. If you own the land to park, fine, that's up to you. But you shouldn't be able to reach property nearby and use that property. Some people are going to use the parking lots any way. You're not going to be able to cover everything. You just can't do it. And that shouldn't be - we don't think that should be a criteria for the Special Exception. I noticed that they had a couple of parking attendants out there the last two weeks. I've never seen one before that. And I have been out there -Page - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals for many hours. And never seen parking attendants. But I've seen them in the last two weeks. I've seen flash liglits out there. That's strange. I want to mention something about the knife attki.ck in November (1994) . I heard something, someone say "Well, a thing like that happens, it can happen anywhere." I don't believe that. Things like that happen in party atmospheres. It happens at a more pres- rate than anywhere else. It just doesn't happen, walking down the street, or whatever. Maybe it happens in family violence or something like that. But when you create a party- �Amosphere like that of 100, 200 people, things like this can happen. Especially when drinking is involved. This is a party crowd. So this is, you can't just say this could happen anywhere. That's not true. It happens in party atmospheres. We know it happens at an alarming rate. As far as the sound goes, I haven't heard too much problem with the sound except that with a deep base, deep bxises going there everything is vibrating - there's no doubt about that. You can hear it right down the block. It's like a "boom, boom, boom" - really deep base. You can hear that. When I hear the music, the thumping sound of the base. That's all I really have to say at this time. If you have any questions for me, I'll be glad to answer them. MEMBER DINIZIO: What was the date of the letter that you sent? (Referring to letter from the Building Dept. ) MR. DEMOPOULOUS: May 12th. -Page Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY: We have it. MEMBER DINIZIO: Did you get any reply from the Building Department? MR. DEMOPOULOUS: No. I decided - actually I wrote this letter about two weeks before that, and the owner said, "Send the letter in." And things started. We noticed they were s I.arting to open again, and said,. "Let's get this letter in." That was the reason we put it in. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Demopoulous, can I just ask you the purpose of cordoning off your parking lot in the front of your building, was so as to: Number One, to protect the property so no one would park there? MR. DEMOPOULOUS: That's correct. CHAIRMAN: I'm not putting words in your mouth, please tell me, ok? Number Two, of course, it reduces your liability if somebody gets hurt on the property which would only make sense. Ok. And the reason why I ask that question is, or at least make those statements, is because I was told by a police officer, that when ci. person cordons off their property - the parking lot even though it's on your property and you own it, is no longer public parking. At the time that it's cordoned off, all right. MR. DEMOPOULOUS: (Nodded in agreement. ) CHAIRMAN: Now, by the nature of the fact that this cordoned off area was then modified to become a public parking lot again would -Page Hearing _ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals then again open you up to a liability situation if someone was hurt on that property, is that not correct? MR. DEMOPOULOUS: It's possible. We're not sure about that. We were told by insurance people that nobody could use our lot for parking. CHAIRMAN: Without your permission. MR. DEMOPOULOUS: Well, no. We couldn't do it. If we did, we open ourselves up to liability, so. CHAIRMAN: We thank you. We will then reconvene this hearing on the 29th. Sorry - I see another gentleman in the bock. You have a question you want to make, ok. KENNETH COUDREY: I also have a building paint store in Hampton Bays that's adjacent to a bar. Charlie Brown's. For the last - we've been there about eight years. We've been fighting that owner for about five years, same stuff. I respect other people's property. I certainly do. But I've been fighting with him for the same reason - beer bottles coming over. One day we just go together and we said, what can we do to resolve it, you know? And I've said to him, "Listen I'm tired of picking up beer bottles and glass on my parking lot." So he says, you know, "I apologize. What if I just cleaned it up. I get there in the mo,•ning and clean it up and resolve this problem?" People, you know, you drive down the street, people throw a beer bottle. I mean, I run over glass all the time. But the point is, you talk to somebody. I spent a lot of money in this place. I put a stockade fence- all the i%,ay down on his -Page ;7A - Hearing _ranscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals side of the property, adjoining our property. Before that, his pipes were all over my property. I didn't run over to him and say, "Hey you got these 20 ft. , 30 ft. heavy cast iron pipes oii my property, you know?" I mean, if maybe people will talk to each other, I mean, you can resolve a lot of things." He's got everything is fenced off his property - except for maybe 20 feet of his parking lot. I mean, everything is barricaded. I mean, high stockade metal fence. It's not like it's a family-oriented house where there is a family and a bunch of children there. Or a wife. This is a construction site. I mean, people have to make a living. I expect him to make a living. He's got to expect other people to make a living. That building was closed for seven or eight years. Someone had to pay a property tax - school taxes over there. You didn't pay it (addressing Mr. Demopoulous) . Somebody had to pay it. I had to pay it. CHAIRMAN: Please, to the Board. MR. COUDREY: You know. I had to pay the properly tax. CHAIRMAN: We heard this from you last year. The issue is that this does not on the appearance as far as I am concerned, does not lend itself to be a sports bar. It is a night club and that it is the problem that I am concerned with. I am not speaking for my fellow board members, all right. We have told you where the problems lie. There are four or five of them, ok, with reference to violations. ,t tPage 7j - Hearing _ ranscript Regular IMeeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. COUDREY: I wrote them down when I (inaudible) . CHAIRMAN: And that is the issue that you have to address. That is the area that we have a problem, all right. And I don't know if they are rectifiable. I'll be honest with you. All right. At this point. But, you know, we will go from there. And that's basically (Interrupted) . Yes? MEMBER TORTORA: When the Board granted you a Special Exception permit last year, it had to make findin s and made a determination that the use you were asking for by Special Exception would be in keeping and not be a detriment to the surrounding properties. Would not be a detriment to the health, welfare, and safety of the township, and it was based on those things that they granted this permit. And when you see 37 incident reports ranging from rights to possession of drugs. to petty larceny to assault second degree to assault first degree, you don't see that this is to the benefit or to the health, welfare and safety of the community. Now, let me finish. The Chairman of this Board is being very lenient in my view because if it were my sole 'decision tonight, I would revoke your permit tonight. You are in violation of the conditions of this permit and this Board has everything within its power to revoke it. Tonight. MR. COUDREY: I understand that. And I appreciate you -- Page 7.� - Hearing ..eanscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: And when you come back in two weeks unless you can assure me as far as my inclination at this point, that this is not going to happen any more, I would not be inclined to renew your permit. MR. COUDREY: If I were to go to any town police department and ask them day by day, accident reports or fights or anything like that, I would have a stack about this big. James ( Lebkuecker) in his powers, or in my powers, or your powers, or police department powers, cannot police our citizens. People want to stab somebody, they're going to stab somebody whether it be in James' club, down the street in the deli, or any place else. People are responsible for their own acts. We're not - he can't be - you can't control people if they're going to want to stab somebody. lti Nether it be in his night club or down the street at another bar, or :mother bar, or in a home where somebody stabs - like O.J. , stal)s his wife, or supposedly - people. How do they control people. To be in that position. Even the law police cannot control people. Detectives can't. I mean, they go to homicides every day. And they're not in James' club. They're all over the place. All over ,'America. It's a violent nature. It's a violent country-- I know what you mean. You're saying, "Bars are there." People have to cent somewhere. That's why you have so many children in the street today. In woods doing drugs. Is that any better? And the problem is not with James' club. The problem is with society in general. And to single out James' club, you say, "You're bad. You're this. You're That. ,1?age 7S - Hearing -.-anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Because somebody hurt his finger because he helped somebody with a tire." MEMBER TORTORA: We're saying you're in vio*lation of your occupancy. MR. COUDREY: You're saying to me, "Look at all these complaints." These complaints are accident reports. And they're all in May. All of a sudden they all come up in May. CHAIRMAN: Well you just happen to have those. That's all I could get to copy - I had a meeting going on inside. And you can go to the Police and get the whole -- MR. COUDREY: If we all went to the police depiirtment and got their files, Southold or any township, you're going to find people fighting with each other. You're going to find people punching each other. Breaking someone's window. Giving someone a flat tire. These are people - you know, it doesn't matter if they're in a bar or walking on the street. CHAIRMAN: But that's why we set the occupancy level based upon the health department requirements and other requirements that we were dealing with on the guise that this was a. sports bar. MR. COUDREY: James has assured me that he, he's telling me that he says he polices the occupancy. I mean, you can't punch someone in the face and say get the hell out of the bar. You got to say, "Well, it's full and you got to turn around and go." Some people Page %.6 - Hearing ,�anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals wait outside. I can't pool up the town, yet someon(-,!'s parking at a no-parking sign right out front here. CHAIRMAN: You don't understand the situation. We have a building inspector who says he saw 200 people. And there is a report from a police sergeant, I believe his name is Sidor. That we have in our documents that said that he saw in excess of 200 people. MR. COUDREY: I'm not going to call the building inspector -- CHAIRMAN: But 200 people, you know, are 125 more than the occupancy level that was set. MR. COUDREY: I'm not going to call the building inspector a liar because I respect any county workers, but it's hard for me to believe that. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Gary, you wanted to add to that? BUILDING INSPECTOR GARY FISH: This is strictly that he's in violation of that Special Exception. You know, this is not anything else but violations of the special exception that, in your own admission, he cannot control, so I don't see any otl)er way than to pull the Special Exception. MR. COUDREY: You going to control . someone from entering your house but you can't control them from walking in front of your street. INSPECTOR FISH: Well the comment was passed to me when I was in the establishment I want to make this -able (inaudible) - that, you know, "We don't want them to survive in business" and all the stuff you say, but that's not the issue. The issue hel•e is that many aspects . of the Special Exception - many requirements of the special exception are not being complied with, and that's why. It's not that � I ( Y IPage Hearing -,,,a.nscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals you're being singled out. It's when you're speeding down the road, and the police officer pulls you over, you get the speeding ticket. Maybe ten other people were speeding, but you still get the speeding ticket. You can't go after every speeder at the same time. It's not working. MR. COUDREY: I'm just saying -- MR. FISH, continuing: And in your own admission you're admitting that you can't control. MR. COUDREY: We can control people entering the bar. Or on his property. You can't control people sitting out in the street. CHAIRMAN: Can we continue with this. We liave one more gentleman in the green shirt that wants to say something. Thank you so much, both of you. How are you tonight, sir? (Secretary changed tape at this point to Tape 3. ) CHAIRMAN: Would you just state your name for the record. JAMES R. TYLER: My name is James R. Tyler. I'm the owner of Tyler's Automotive at 60795 Main Road, Mattituck, or° Laurel as it's so-called. CHAIRMAN: How far away are you from this property? MR. TYLER: Two doors down, west. And the rE!USon I am here tonight is because they've been using my parking lot for parking. Not because they got permission and they didn't come in to see me, and a couple of weeks ago I decided to start blocking it off. Ok. The reason I am here is the problem that we're having is the trash that's left in my driveway, the beer bottles, the debris, the vandalism that's taking place within the last year and one-half. It 1 xPage 7p - Hearing ..-anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals starts back on my property - I only have four police reports because every morning I go out to pick up a beer bottle, I don't call the police. I pick them up and throw it in my garbage. I have four police reports. One is a stoned car. One is the windows that were broken, another one is for the car's top has been cut. Ok. And the other one, is where a car was broken into and a lot of stuff was stolen out of it. My problem that's happening is, my customers can't come, drop their car off for me to come in on Saturday morning to work on it because it's going to be vandalized or something else. That's the problem I .am having. I don't care about people trying to make a living. That's what I'm trying to do' - make a living. But what's happened is, since this opened - because these back in the 10th month in 1994 and until that point I had no vandalism, I had no problems with my property whatsoever, ok. I'm riot just picking on because it's happened in the last two weeks. This has been back for a long time, and I have police reports here. And the other thing that's bothering me is the transfer of litter that's been winding up - if you would like to see it, your honor. It's been winding up in my driveway. Ladies, I'm sorry about this (Gave sheet of lime light club with photograph of lady. ) This is what has been winding up in my driveway and my yard on Saturday, Sunday and Monday mornings. And I'm tii-ed of having to clean it up. That's not my job. My job is rur,.Bing automobile repairs. MR. COUDREY: Can I look at that? What is that. (Advertisement for Lime Light. ) 'r at x r Page 7 - Hearing .•anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. TYLER: All you had to do was to come to my :shop, any time, on any Saturday morning, or any Sunday morning. You can see all the trash. Tyler's Automotive. Two doors down, west. Just past Crenshaw. And my problem is that it's costing me money because my deductible on my liability is $500.00. So when I get a top put on a car, it's going to cost me - it comes out of my pocket. When I had to have the window put back in the car, it comes out of my pocket because the $500 deductible doesn't cover it. It's costing me money so that I can service my customers because of this place. That's the problem I have. I don't care if they want to r•tin a business. Everybody's entitled to make money. But when it si a.rts costing me money, so I can still run my business, I'm not .happy. MR. COUDREY: And so these people come from the bier? CHAIRMAN: Pardon me, you'll have to address_the -- MR. COUDREY: Oh, I'm sorry. Are they coming from the bar? MR. TYLER: Definitely. Because -- MR. COUDREY (interrupting) : Have you seen anybody? I mean-- CHAIRMAN: No. Wait a minute. If you want to sta rid up here and address the -- MR. TYLER: Two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, my partner Scott Tyler was on his way home. He left his pick-up there: and as he was going to get his pick-up to go home, he dialed his wife for dinner, three cars pulled in - they hopped out of the car and they started beating it through the woods, through the trees, aiid said, "Wait a minute. What's going on here." They said, "We're parking where we park every week." And that's we know why we know where the cars •�Y r 1 Page d - Hearing � anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals are coming from and why the problem. And so we blocked it off for the last couple of weekends. We blocked the front off to keep the cars out, to keep the damage down to a minimum. CHAIRMAN: What did you block it with, Jim? MR. TYLER: My wrecker and another car. CHAIRMAN: Did anything happen to that hopefully not? MR. TYLER: No. But the problem is, I shouldn't have to do that. I've been here for seven years, you know. CHAIRMAN: Well, the nature of your application before this Board was the reason why you're here. Is that correct? MR. TYLER: Exactly. Because I -- CHAIRMAN: You stood here seven years ago just as you are standing here now. I can remember that night very vividly and did not Richard Lark represent you? MR. TYLER: Yes, he did. CHAIRMAN: And my problem is, that I had to have a certain amount of parking so I could open my doors. And it's things like that. MR. COUDREY: How did you resolve that? MR. TYLER: It was required by the Town Planning Board. MR. COUDREY: No, I'm saying how did you get the extra parking? MR. TYLER: I have a large piece of property. Because my property deals .with a business where I repair cars, they leave and I don't need 30 or 40 car-parking. I need enough for the cars I deal with on the course of a day. Plus I have all of i.he parking out back. This is one case I fenced in, as you all remc-iriber, I had to go through a lot with the Town. I . .jlage Jf/ - Hearing ..-aniscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. TYLER: And it sort of aggravates me -- CHAIRMAN (interrupting) : I have to tell you tha 1. your place is beautiful. I mean, it's a repair shop but it's the nicest repair shop that I've seen. MR. TYLER: Thank you, because I try to keep it that way and it bothers me that now people are treating it like a trash hole where they can dump all their stuff. And it's all started since this opened. I mean, let's me honest. I didn't have to police my property before. MR. COUDREY: In other words, they parked on your parking lot and vandalized your vehicles -- MR. TYLER: Oh, yes. They vandalized the cars waiting to be - they break into them. They can be locked and they still break into them. Then when they-- MR. COUDREY (interrupting) : And all these people are coming from James' club? MR. TYLER: Definitely! I had no problem before. MR. COUDREY: No, I mean, I'm just saying - have you - they're all coming from James' club. CHAIRMAN: And again, I forgot to swear you but everything you said was to the best of your knowledge (to Mr. Tyler)',' MR. TYLER: Yes, sir. Right to the T., Thank you. CHAIRMAN: All right. Can we now dispense with this, we'll come back, we'll deal with having the attorneys representing and we'll complete our -- :,Page Hearing _--anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY: I have one request, I'd like to have your attorney come in the day before so that he can review the file, all right? MR. COUDREY: I am going to try to get copiE s and come in during the week. And get copies -- BOARD SECRETARY: Ok. It's available 8 to 4 any day Monday through Friday, you know. MR. COUDREY: Ok. Because I have some, but didn't get them all. MEMBER DOYEN: What day of the week is that? CHAIRMAN: Thursday. We thank you, everyone, for coming in. MEMBER DINIZIO: And we will be voting next time, r.;.ght? CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: No further delays. CHAIRMAN: Yes. But we still have to vote on t Ills, so it -- I realize there is at least one board member that is not willing to give the extension, but I'm not speaking for you (to Member Tortora) . MEMBER TORTORA: I'm deferring it to the rest. of the board, because I said that -- CHAIRMAN: Excuse me, I'm sorry. I'm requesting this hearing be held over till the 29th at approximately 7:15 p.m. And either in here or wherever we can get a room to have it, and at that particular time there will be no further recesses and that the - any other information that may be furnished or has to be furnished will be furnished no later than five (5) business days alter that hearing .4L,Pdge - Hearing . anscript Regular Meeting of June 7, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals so that we can make a decision. And that's it. I'll offer that as a resolution. MEMBER DOYEN: Second. AYES: All Members. (No objections at this time) . The hearing was recessed for a continuation and finLil hearing to be held on Thursday, June 29, 1995 at 7:15 p.m. This resolution was duly adopted by unanimous vote. MR. COUDREY: Thank you. x /7Z, W 3 �i ZBA:lk RECEIVED AND FILED BY .THE SOUTHOLD TOV11d CLERK DATE -96 HOUR Town Clerk, Town of Southold