HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/06/1994 HEARING ya� �
PUBLIC HEARING
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
April 6, 1994
(7:30 p. m. Hearings Commenced)
P r e s e n t HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER,
Chairman
SERGE DOYEN, Member
JAMES DINIZIO, JR. , Member
ROBERT A. VILLA, Member
RICHARD C. WILTON, Member
LINDA KOWALSKI,
Clerk-Assistant to Board
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I N D E X
APPLN .# APPLICANT PAGES
4221 ARTHUR BURNS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-4
4218 JOHN E. STRIPP AND JUDITH 'D. STRIPP. . 4-7
4220 JOHN E. STRIPP AND JUDITH D. STRIPP. . 7-19
4222 CINDY BENEDETTO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .19-23
4227 WILLIAM GASSER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .23-34
4223 DONALD BREHII. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34-40
4226 THOMAS AND JOAN KELLY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40-44
4224 THOMAS AND ROBY GLUCKMAN. . . . . . . . . . . .44-57
4225 RICHARD AND DOLORES PRINCIPI. . . . . . . . .57-68
4228 VICTOR AND GAIL RERISI. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .68-80
4229 FRANK R. ZALESKI. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80-84
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Page 3
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
1. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
7:32 P.M.
Appl. No. 4221. ARTHUR BURNS. This is a request for a variance
based upon the March 1, 1994 Notice of Disapproval from the Building
Inspector concerning a building permit application for fencing around
the existing tennis-court, which height exceeds the requirements
when located in a front yard; ref. Article XXIII, Section 100-231 of
the Zoning Code. Location of Property: 3525 Private Road #13,
Mattituck, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-105-1-4. Zone
District: R-80 Residential.
7:32 P.M. (CHAIRMAN opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice
and application for the record.)
THE Chairman: Also property putting the house and the underground
pool and tennis court front on Long Island sound and the post tennis
court is in the rear of the swimming pool actually it is in the front
yard of the property. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating the surrounding properties in the area and a sketch of a
survey dated a most recent updated December 6, 1985. Is there
someone who would like to be heard concerning this application?
Anybody here for Burns? Oh! How are you? Could I ask you to use
the mike and to state your name please?
BERNADETTE BURNS.
THE CHAIRMAN: How are you tonight?
MRS. BURNS: I'm fine thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anything you would like to add to it?
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. BURNS: Just that it is a builder's error when we first apply
for the tennis-court we assumed that it everything was altogether
obviously.
THE CHAIRMAN: I have to admit to you I was up there when and it
was still snow on the ground at the time. Is there any lighting for
this tennis-court at all?
MRS. BURNS: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Lets just see if anybody on the board have any
other questions for Mrs. Burns?
THE BOARD: No. Do you intend to fill the center section of this
fence or is that the way its going to be?
MRS. BURNS: Right. Yes, just the way it is.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any objection to this application?
THE BOARD: No. You want to make a motion.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, make it.
THE BOARD: Make a motion that it be a approved as built.
THE CHAIRMAN: . As applied for.
THE BOARD: As applied for.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, second in favor.
(See Clerk's minutes for resolution. )
7:35 P.M.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, next appeal is 4218 on behalf of JOHN E.
STRIPP and JUDITH D. STRIPP. A continuation from the March 2,
1994 meeting. Mr. Ham you're on. How are you tonight?
Page 5
Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. HAM: Fine, Thanks. Stephen Ham, Matthews & Ham, 45
Hampton Road, Southampton. To save time I have prepared a
memorandum which sets forth the basic arguments . that I make in
favor of this application. Mr. Stripp is here tonight and you'll
probably have plenty of questions for him. I just would like to
highlight, though, some of the legal concerns here and that the main
one being the fact that this is a classic practical difficulty in
that we have to maintain for the DEC purposes a 75 foot setback from
the wetland which is on the northeasterly border of this property.
In order to do so the house has to be located where it currently is
or it could conceivably be located along the other private road- but
the various agencies Health Department and the DEC that have
already given approval have wanted it to be as far back from Barlow
Pond as possible. Now, other, issues, as you know, you've received
correspondence from Fishers Island Conservancy as well as FIDCO on
this. We will point out that the concern of FIDCO is perhaps not as
serious as it might be in that the setback of 20 feet is from the
property line, whereas the road itself which is as I have pointed out
in the memorandum a little used road, actually 35 feet which would
address the FIDCO concerns. In addition, FIDCO - well Mr. Stripp
has proposed landscaping features including a hedge which is on the
survey and FIDCO, of course, will have to approve any plans that he
submits and as you know from the Brim episode and others, they will
require some natural screening which he is willing to perform.
Insofar as the Conservancy's objections from an archeological
standpoint, this has been looked at by the DEC and as an exhibit to
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
my memorandum, I have the notice of complete application which
states that the New York State Preservation Historic Act has been
complied with, and no further review is necessary. However, the
Stripps do want to be good neighbors and are willing to allow either
the museum or the Fergurson Museum or the Conservancy if it wishes
to hire. an archeologist to examine the site; he will not build if he
is granted the variances he will not build before next Fall although
he does need to proceed fairly quickly because some of his permits
will expire. So they are willing to do that - have an archeologist
come in and do a study to test holes and if necessary remove any
artifacts.
THE CHAIRMAN: The line that refers to limits of clearing. Can we
construe that to be the DEC, the line that the DEC has established?
MR. HAM: Yes, I believe so.
MR. STRIPP: Yes. That was in agreement with them, yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, right, OK, thank you, I just want to clear
that up.
Go ahead, I apologize.
MR. HAM: That's on the Barlow Pond side.
CHAIRMAN: Right.
MR. HAM: So my point is basically, that I addressed in the
memorandum, are the various ones which are the standards for an
area variance under Town Law Section 267. I address each one of
them, the principal one being what alternative do we have in this
situation. We would like to conform but given the size,
configuration of the lot, the wetlands at the northeasterly border --
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
it's in to conform and that's why we're before your board and
we maintain that the character of the neighborhood is not affected by
this because we will do what we can to screen the house from the
road as I point out the road is a very little used road, there are
only two or three properties to the north. In fact FIDCO has talked
about it, I know, about closing that road off just passed the
property that was recently acquired from John Swing by the Torres.
THE CHAIRMAN: OK.
MR. HAM: And Mr. Stripp is here if you have any questions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have, you know, there will probably be
discussions. I'm just referring to the board members-- concerning
the pool. I haven't opened that portion of the hearing up so if you
would like me to deal with that first and before we get into the
questioning unless you have any specific questions any of you want
concerning the proposed position of the house and the variances that
are required there. We can run both of these concurrently if you
want.
MR. HAM. I would prefer that you do so because they may be
overlapping.
MR. CHAIRMAN. OK. The third appeal of the evening (as
follows:) .
7:40 p.m. Appeal No. 4220 - JOHN E. STRIPP and JUDITH D.
STRIPP. (The Chairman read the legal notice of hearing for the
record.) This is a request for a variance based upon the building
inspector's February 24, 1994 disapproval concerning a_ Building
Permit Application for a swimming pool with enclosure in the front
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
yard location references Article III, Section 100-32 of the Zoning
Code. Location of the property again as Private Road off East End
Road, Fishers Island, County Tax Map Parcel 1000-7-2-9, which is in
effect the same piece of property. And this is of course for the
position of the swimming pool. Is there anything you wanted to
address on that?
MR. HAM: Specifically on pool, I think a swimming pool is a
customary accessory structure and there are many. You can take
notice of the fact that there are many pools on the east end of the
island and its not an undue development of the property and has
been approved by the various agencies with jurisdiction over
environmental matters, namely the Health Department and ,the State
Department of Environmental Conservation. In fact, the Health
Department required a backwash drywell that is more than 200 feet
from the service reservoir of Barlow Pond. I understand the last
r
time I looked into this that Barlow Pond in fact is no longer the
primary source of drinking water. In fact it is not even a secondary
source of drinking water on the Island but a tertiary source and
maybe Mr. Doyen may have some further developments on that.
MEMBER DOYEN: Well I suppose it will more or less be a backup in
the event that some emergency should the current water supply be
inadequate.
MR. HAM: Right. It's a backup to a backup at present.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Questions from board members of either Mr. Stripp
or Mr. Hain.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I'm just curious. When did the applicant
purchase this property?
MR. HAM: 1978.
MR. STRIPP: 1979. We closed in 79.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Bob? Positioning of that
house as opposed to where the pool is and vice-a-versa or do you
want to get into that?
MEMBER VILLA: Well, that's explained in the narrative of Mr. Ham's
view as given in here, you know, in looking at it would seem that
the logical thing to do would be put the house where the swimming
pool is but .your main argument on that is you're trying to keep it
away from Barlow Pond.
MR. HAM: That was certainly addressed by the Health Department
-. I did not represent Mr. Stripp before the Health Department, but
I know he was in there for a long time. One of my exhibits is a
newspaper article from Fishers Island Gazette from 1990 which quotes
Mr. Stripp about his various trials and tribulations in trying to get
approvals at the time, I believe, the county was about to undertake
or had commenced to undertake a study of the Barlow Pond area.
MEMBER DOYEN: What was the reasoning of the Health Department
for wanting to place the pool?
MR. HAM: They want everything as far back from Barlow Pond as
possible and that's why it's squeezed into the area where it is.
MEMBER DOYEN: I can't understand that, but if that's their
pronouncement I suppose -- this could be runoff (remainder of
statement not audible due to another conversation between
1,
Page 10
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
Mr. Hain and the Chairman) .
MR. CHAIRMAN: What's the approximate width of the road that this
is primarily on?
MR. HAM: The roads are normally -- the right-of-way-=20 feet the
right-of-way. (Separate conversations were stated at the same time.)
MR. STRIPP (to Member Doyen) : Yes, they had some concern about
the septic tank and they wanted that up as far north as possible.
MR. DOYEN: If you're down here you can place your septic there.
MR. HAM: Well they have a rule I believe that is a 200 foot
requirement from a surface reservoir and, of course, Fishers Island
is the only place in Suffolk County that has surface reservoirs.
MEMBER DOYEN: No, well what I'm getting at is, so that you can put
your septic system back further. It doesn't have to be where the
house is. Or on this side of the house. It can be on the other side
because it is probably -- and where is the septic tank proposed?
MR. HAM: It's about as far away from the wetlands in Barlow Pond
as you can get.
MEMBER DOYEN: But any way that's the question. They have
jurisdiction in that matter.
MR. STRIPP: This was, about the fourth plan as we went through it
of different options over a period of 12 weeks (interruption) .
MEMBER DOYEN. Actually then what your really concerned about
more than anything else is the drainage back into that low area
really as a practical matter, not Barlow Pond, from what I can
ascertain. Do you know what I mean?
Mr. HAM: Well could place a berm here as well if they needed to.
Page 'I I
Regular ,Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER DOYEN: If that drains here, you could drain back into that
low area so what's draining in there?
MR. HAM: Isn't there a berm on there.
CHAIRMAN: Yes, I see it.
MEMBER DOYEN: Well, I'm not an expert on that matter either but
looking at it as a practical matter would you say that the drainage
whatever drainage there is that could do any harm-- Because of the
ditch that along this ditch road might go back into that low area
that is down below your lot.
MR. STRIPP: One of the reasons for the berm along the side.
MR. DOYEN. Yes, but actually the water that drained off here, I'd
have to take another look at it again -- you know, there is a ditch
along that southern road.
MR. STRIPP: Yes. Along that southern line.
MR. DOYEN. OK, is the pitch on that such that you could possibly
drain into that road?
MR. STRIPP: It would drain back into the driveway.
MR. DOYEN: Back down that road again.
MR. STRIPP: Yeah, if you look at the elevations.
MR. DOYEN. Yes, I wasn't sure, here they show the ditches ending
there, but I, it doesn't appear to end that quickly if you're looking
at it walking along the road.
MR. STRIPP: It goes in to the next property and then drops down
at that point, the ditch does.
MR. CHAIRMAN. OK, are you going to give us anything from the.
DEC, some negative declaration or something that you had?
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. HAM: It wasn't in - I didn't get it yet. As an exhibit to my
memorandum, I have the Notice of Complete Application which
indicates that one is on file.
BOARD CLERK: Yeah, but that's not what we need though, we need
the Declaration.
MR. HAM: Yes, I understand. As it turns out I found out today
from Mr. Stripp that the Health Department was in fact the lead
agency on this which is somewhat unusual, and I will undertake to
provide that to you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now let me just understand this and recap what
we're doing here. You are asking for a decision as expeditiously as
possible. He is not going to build until the Fall until a
determination is made concerning. the archeological dig that is on
this --purportedly maybe on this site?
MR. HAM: No, not a determination in the legal sense of the
determination. He will allow others to come on to the property to do
a study either during the summer before he does anything. In fact
John Pfeiffer, who you may have heard of is an archeologist whose
done some work on the Island was at the site in the mid eighties.
I spoke to him over the phone he dug a bout four test holes he calls
this site what they call a "niddin" which is what we use to call a
"dump" and that is now called a landfill. What the native Americans
where they threw there clarri shells, I guess.
MEMBER DOYEN: Did you speak to Charles? Charlie Fergurson?
MR. HAM: I tried to, I had a number that 'I tried to call and I never
got an answer, I don't--
Page 13
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. DOYEN: Do you have his number?
MR. HAM: I from directory assistance obtained something.
MR. DOYEN: I have his number and his address here, because it
was his father that did the original--
MR. HAM: His father, or his daughter?
MR. DOYEN: His father.
MR. HAM: I heard his daughter did.
MR. DOYEN: It's his father who originally did do the excavating
there.
MR. HAM: In any event the answer to Mr. Goehringer's question
what we envision is not some formal stage one cultural resources
survey under SEQRA but the opportunity for interested parties to go
to the site either during the Summer before construction commences
or Mr. Stripp has told me, at the time of excavation they would do a
--not a severe excavation but a light one -- because most of the
artifacts would be presumably within the first 12 inches of soil and
he's willing to have someone come in there and study it, remove what
needs to be removed and that's our position on that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Now, where do we lie with the Trustees
concerning this piece of property?
MR. HAM: I had a message this morning that they are asking for a
full permit. They had given, you did not receive anything from
them today?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Not officially.
BOARD CLERK: No, only verbal.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Only verbal.
Page 14
Regular Meeting. of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. HAM: That's all I have seen so far. That, and I questioned their
authority on this by the. way, they did give a non jurisdiction letter
in 1990 and to me looking at the map which shows that it is more
than 75 feet from the wetlands, it's out of their jurisdiction so
obviously any variance you grant would be possibly be conditioned
upon either obtaining a non-jurisdiction or going through whatever
permit process we would need to go through. - It seems that the
Stripps have been through quite a bit with two major governmental
agencies on this to this point but having no formal word as to what
the Trustees are requiring I really can't address that, but only to
say that if they are asserting jurisdiction, I believe they're doing
so improperly. I think they have the right to be there if they're
concerned about some invasion of their territory, but to ask us to go
through the full permit process unless I see some better argument,
we don't agree with that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The reason why I ask that question is because if
that is the case, then possibly should just hold this over until our
next meeting and then close it at time, you know. Yes, Mr. Stripp.
MR. STRIPP: Back in 1990 when we were trying to determine who
was going to be the lead agency there were three possibilities one
was DEC and the other was Suffolk County Health District and the
other was the Trustees. At that time that was when the Trustees had
said that we have no jurisdiction over this so therefore we don't
want to be involved -in this decision any further and had in fact
given us written correspondence to that effect.
Page 15
Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. HAM: For purposes of holding it over, would what they say
affect your decision on the variance alone?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, not necessarily, but if there were any minor
changes I would hate like heck to have to open it up again and
that'swhere my concern is because I know, by the way we do .
appreciate your coming tonight OK, because I understood that you
were possibly considering a recess at this point.
MR. HAM: Well I did because I didn't as of yesterday Mr. . Stripp
thought he might not be able to make it and I _thought that I might
not be able with Mr. Stripp having gone through on his own the
other approvals that I might not be able to answer all of your
questions, but I -
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anything you would like to state for the
record, Mr. Stripp, other than you know the ordeal that you've gone
through for the last four years?
MR. STRIPP: No, Mr. Chairman, other than to say that we'll try to
be as cooperative as possible and make all the adjustments necessary
to try to damage the ecology not at all and to make sure that there
I
is not health considerations and that it's been a long process and
we've been very patient and we try to work with the agencies as
they asked us to, and I think we've gotten through everything but
this, which unfortunately this is sequential process and now we're
down to the end so it would be much nicer if we could all get in a
room and work together -- it doesn't work that way.
Page 16
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER DOYEN: Have you taken up with the building committee
that you have to satisfy that the 20 feet is not 20 feet but 35 feet
in reality?
MR. STRIPP. I had a conversation with Tom Doherty today in fact,
and he said that at the time they made the determination to send a
letter. They weren't aware of the difference between the
right-of-way for the road and the traveled way which is about 20 feet.
MEMBER DOYEN: Probably that's a 50 foot right-of-way because
someone has a surveyor's stakes across the road that indicates what I
think is the property line of the Harrisses across the way which
would from what you tell 'me indicate that perhaps that is a 50 foot
right-of-way.
MR. STRIPP. It could be.
MR. HAM: It's possible. I mentioned 40 because I'm familiar, most
of them are 40 feet on the FIDCO Map.
MEMBER DOYEN: Forty, or 50 ft. because it's obviously there not
using all the right-of-ways.
MR. HAM. That's all. I'll reserve that.
(Two conversations at this time, both inaudible but picked up as
follows: )
MR. STRIPP: . . . doing any landscaping that they felt was
appropriate because we still do have to get back to the architectural
approval and certainly I want to cooperate in anyway possible with
FIDCO.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Stripp, what is the approximate size of the
house? Footage wise that you're proposing.
Page 17
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. STRIPP. It's about -including the garage about 26,000 square
feet. No, 2600 -- I'm sorry. That's including the garage.
MR. CHAIRMAN. And what is the approximate size of the swimming
pool that you propose?
MR. STRIPP. I think I have to scale it again. It was 32 or 34.
MR. CHAIRMAN. 32 or 34 by 40?
MR. STRIPP. No, no, that's the. longest part. The other part I
would say is probably about 20, maybe less than that.
MR. CHAIRMAN. OK
MR. STRIPP. It's narrow, it's an oval as you can see. It's narrow
and long. The longest part is no longer than 34.
BOARD CLERK. Would lie know how long the house is, the dimensions
of the house?
MR. STRIPP: Some part is 40 --
MR. DOYEN: Well it's easy enough there's a scale on here. Do
you have a scale.
MR. STRIPP: Yes, its approximately 70 feet including the garage.
BOARD CLERK: Thank you.
MR. HAM: If the Trustees-- would you're point being to hold it
open would be if the Trustees say we want you even farther back
from the wetland because we know you have only five feet in area
and you're bound to disturb territory in our jurisdiction that we may
be asking you for even a greater variance is that.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Well, there may be some movement on the swimming
pool, too, there where you can move the house down a little bit
closer without disrupting the cesspool system and thereby requiring
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
you to go back to the Iiea.lth Department because as you know the
placement for the house really has nothing to do with the Health
Department. It's where the cesspool and the sanitary system and
where the well is going to go.
MR. HAM. I expect to be back here next month on another
application and anyway. I don't think you'll need to have any
further questions for Mr. Stripp, would you?
MR. CHAIRMAN. No. Can I just ask - Mr. Stripp.probably is not
coming back? Do you have any specific questions for Mr. Stripp
While he is here. It was very nice of him to come.
MEMBER VILLA: No, it's pretty clear.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you have any objection, Laury (Dowd) if we
hold this over until the next month?
TOWN ATTORNEY DOWD. No, I think it would help us get some
additional info.
MR. CHAIRMAN. OK, good. Alright, so both resolution-- actually I'll
make the motion on 4218 and 4220 to reserve decision until the next
regular scheduled hearing.
BOARD CLERK: Jerry, are you recessing the hearing?.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We're recessing it, yes. I meant recess.
MEMBER WILTON: Second.
MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
MR. HAM: Off the record, you're looking for the Negative
Declaration from me and nothing else. We'll both be notified, I
assume, by the Trustees.
BOARD CLERK: Are you askiiig for anything on the archeological?
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN: If anything happens that you find, that somebody
has been down there, let us know. They're certainly aware of it.
I'm sure John Thatcher will let us know if anything goes on anyway.
Bye. Have a safe trip. ,MEMBERS: All Ayes.
8:00 P.M.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Application No. 4222 on behalf of CINDY BENE-
DETTO. Legal notice reads as follows: for an application the
applicant is a request for a variance based upon the Building
Inspector's March 4, 1994 Notice of Disapproval concerning a building
permit application for an addition at the rear of the existing
dwelling which is to be located at 75 feet of the or from the
bulkhead along . Dawn Lagoon; reference Article XXIII. Section
100-239.4B of the Zoning Code. Location of Property is Lot No. 61 at
Cleaves Point, Section 111, better known as 910 Maple Lane,
Greenport, County Tax Map 1000-35-5-26. The subject premises is
substandard and is located in R-40 Zone District. Copy of the survey
Roderick Van Tuyl. P.C. dated May 7, 1992, indicating the
approximate placement of the proposed addition and a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in
the area. The present time the deck is approximately 48 feet. The
proposed addition is to reduce it down to 39 feet and I have a copy
of the Suffolk County Tax Map. Is there somebody who would like to
be heard? Oh! Mrs. Bertani, how are you?
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. BERTANI: I would just like to add that since we made the
application we did get a wiver from the Trustees.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Does anybody here have any questions of Mrs.
Bertani concerning this application?
MEMBER VILLA: Yes. The cross-hatch section is the addition, and
then they're going to have a deck beyond that?.
MRS. BERTANI: It's going to be a concrete patio.
MEMBER VILLA: Concrete patio? At grade?
MRS. BERTANI: Yes.
MEMBER VILLA: But it says proposed terrace and stairs.
MRS. BERTANI: Well, patio terrace. It comes around to a set of
stairs that goes down to the basement. It's an outside set of stairs.
MEMBER VILLA: The set of stairs going downstairs, all right? So
there's no stairs off the terrace, per se on going out?
MRS. BERTANI: No. The terrace is actually grade and then we go
down the stairs into the basement.
MEMBER VILLA: Actually those stairs are behind it closer to the
house.
MRS. BERTANI: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: This will remain unroofed. This will have no roof
over it at all?
MRS.. BERTANI: (Nodded in agreement) .
MR. CHAIRMA: Just strictly an open patio. Anybody else. . . .
MEMBER VILLA: I don't have any objections. No, not as long as the
patio is going to be concrete at grade we don't have any jurisdiction
over that, right?
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Regular- Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
BOARD CLERK: Right.
MEMBER VILLA: Its grade.
BOARD CLERK: That's right.
MEMBER VILLA: So then we're really only looking at the addition.
BOARD CLER: And the steps.
MEMBER VILLA: Well the steps are there already. The steps are
already there going to the basement.
BOARD CLERK: OIi, I'm thinking of Brehm, the other one that we
have.
MEMBER VILLA: I just want to be sure that you know nothing is
built above grade and adds to it because everything slopes down
towards the bulkhead and the canal at that point.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm a little confused. Why is it before us then?
BOARD CLERK: Because it is an addition 16 x 22.
MEMBER VILLA: Because you have an addition being built where the
deck is now?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.
MEMBER VILLA: And that's only 48 feet from the bulkhead?
BOARD CLERK: This part is not there right now Jerry.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand.
BOARD CLERK: OK
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I understand. OK, so the elongation of the
existing deck is the actual .addition and then the area .in front of
that is the cement platform is at grade and that's the issue that I'm
referring to as not being within our jurisdiction.
MEMBER VILLA: Right.
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN: Basically because its that grade although quite
honestly it could be 4 inches above the ground to make it even when
you go out some. So the portion when I said to you is that we're
referring only to that cement patio area in front of the addition? OK.
BOARD CLERK: Do you want the deck roofed or not? Your
confusing me now.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Its encompassing the deck so the deck is gone
because that's going to be addition.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I, I ask you again does anybody have any objection
to this.
MEMBER Not me.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Bob
MEMBER VILLA: Actually, actually what we're looking the addition is
there already. Right?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, the addition is not there. What there doing is
there taking the deck and there making you know an addition out of
it. Okay? So in front of that is the cement patio that she is
referring to.
BOARD CLERK: here, just from this part over.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.
BOARD CLERK: Yeah, but the addition is enlarged bigger than what
the deck is.
MR. CHAIRMAN: . Right, Yes.
MEMBER VILLA: This is the house that's on the north, there two of
them together.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, right.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA: I'm getting myself confused. This just an existing
deck there now.
BOARD CLERK: There's three of them down there really.
MEMBER VILLA: Right, so then this one doesn't have a plan or
anything else, they just have the addition and then its a concrete
MR. CHAIRMAN: Patio.
MEMBER VILLA: Patio
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.
MEMBER VILLA: OK, no I don't have any objection to that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anyone want to offer a resolution? I'll offer the
resolution. Granted as applied.
MEMBER VILLA: Second.
MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor.
MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Have a lovely evening.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, the next appeal is on behalf of WILLIAM
7 : 50 P .Pilp.ASSER. It is appeal number 4227. OK, the legal notice reads as
follows: Upon application the applicant 4227 is a request for a
variance based upon the Building Inspector's February 4, 1994 Notice
of Disapproval concerning a building permit application for two
identification signs, as they exist and to my knowledge the size of
the signs are within, conformity it is the actual placement of those
signs where they exist which is before us and I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map concerning this and the surrounding
properties in the area. Mr. Gasser would you like to be heard?
MR. GASSER:
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, Thank you. How are you today Mrs. Gasser?
MRS. GASSER: Good evening. I'm Karen Gasser speaking on behalf of
the Directors of the American Armored Foundation and William Gasser
the property owner. The application is before you this evening shows
the museum has presently two signs, one on Love Lane and one on
North Road. These signs are 6 feet by 3-1/2 feet subdued in color
and the museum feels these signs are in harmony with the surround-
ing area. As ' stated on our application present property lines do not
allow the museum to conform to the required sign code setbacks.
Therefore, we are making application to this board for variances so
that the signs in question can be brought into compliance with town
code. I have some pictures that I would like to submit to the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Surely. Thank you very much.
MRS. GASSER: These signs show the other 16 signs that are
presently, these photographs show the other 16 signs that are
presently on Love Lane. As you can- see all but two of the Love Lane
signs are approximately the same square footage and coloring as the
museum signs. Except for one sign all the Love Lane . signs including
the museum sign run parallel to the street. All the signs have a 9 to
10 foot setback from the street not property line and all but one
does not meet the side property except that. Of the 17 signs that are
presently on Love Lane there is no sign that can conform to the sign
code. Even though we do not conform to this code the museum feels
that the sign conforms the surrounding character of the street in
size, color and placement. The signs do not obstruct vision of the
pedestrians or drivers and the s.ign,s enhance the museum's front
s. -
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
entrance, all of which I'm sure you will agree are important factors
to consider along with the code in this or any application. As not
only members of this board or business men as well you gentlemen
know the importance of signs to any business. These signs are
ultimate extremely important to this non profit organization in
helping us to inform not only the local people but also the tens of
thousands of tourists that visit the museum in the North Fork every
year. We ask that this board grant the museum this variance so that
we can maintain these valuable signs and at the same time be in
compliance with town code. If you will have an y questions I would
be happy to answer them.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I live in Mattituck so I'm perfectly well aware of the
signs and I'm aware of the museum, I've been there several times,
false alarms with the Fire Department. I don't have any particular
objections to the signs, I don't think that there offensive as you
mentioned. That's just my opinion. I'll open it up for any discussion
anybody may have. I apologize Rich that I have not been calling
when you have been asking.
MEMBER WILTON: I have no problem with the signs.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Bob, Jitri?
MEMBER WILTON: Does this include the sandwich sign too or just the
signs on the fence, right?
MRS. GASSER: Just the sign on the fence.
MEMBER WILTON: OK. I have no other questions.
MEMBER VILLA: How are all the other --- when your on 48. You
have other signs hanging on the fence?
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. GASSER: They also are going to be removed.
MEMBER VILLA: They are going to be removed. OK, because to me
they didn't look too good.
MRS. GASSER: No.
MEMBER VILLA: Now, there is also a question I think the sign
ordinance allows one sign per property right?
MR. CHAIRMAN: I think it allows two.
BOARD CLERK: I have a copy of it in the file regulation.Yeah, you
want me to put it? Just leave it there. This is the regulation Bob
talking about signs and rural two streets, so that there are normally
bound to have more than one sign.
MR. CHAIRMAN and other voices discussing the matter.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, any other questions of Mrs. Gasser?
MEMBER VILLA: No, I don't have any questions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Anybody else like to speak in favor of this
application? Thank you Mrs. Gasser. OK, anybody like to speak
against the application?
MS BORELLI: Ongioni and Borelli I'll return these for Diane and
Frank Amoratti who are the neighbors to the applicant.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MS. BORELLI: We do not believe that the applicant here has met the
code requirements and that is part of our objection to the requested
variance in that we think that this applicant can use the code
requirements, there is ample lot space to place the sign the
requisite 15 feet from the lot lines. We also believe that the
pictures you see are signs that were probably approved during the
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
.site plan process or at some point received approval these signs have
been improper and illegal since about 1982. The applicant is before
this board simply because the question came up when there in front
of the Planning Board the site plan review because this site also
doesn't have sit plan approval never having gotten it. The brief
contains a history of the site which shows that this applicant
purchased the property in 1981 and actually came to this board in
1980 prior to purchase trying to find out whether a museum was a
proper use for the site at that time. This board told the applicant
that he couldn't give advice, they had to be here for an application;
however, it was not permitted use at that time, it has never been a
permitted use. It was granted, the applicant was granted a zone
change in September of 93, over our objections, to which we
strenuously objected and that during that approval process the Town
Board decision that granted the zone change specifically makes note
that the zone change should not be considered as the granting of an
variances and that the applicant still had to get the variances for
the various illegalities at the site. The environmental consultant
noted in the papers submitted to the Town Board that even if the
zone change was granted, which it was granted, this site still would
not be in compliance with the zoning code. The Planning Board
objected to the zone change on the basis that it was considered spot
zoning, at least in the Planning Board's opinion. However, the zone
change was granted and the applicant has now come before you to
ask for a variance for signs. It is our position that this applicant
cannot ask for piece meal variances. This site has at least four
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
violations of the code. It has the sign violation of the code, it has
the tower that is in violation of the height requirements and setback
requirements because even although the Town Board told them they
had to -move it 100 feet, the Town Board does not have the. authority
to grant the variance from the code, that tower does not have a
building permit and it violates the code. The site also is a museum
and under the code a museum must be in a totally housed building
and this is not, the equipment is out on the service where you can
see it outside of, the major portion of it is outside. It is our
position that they cannot come and ask for a variance or sign when
there are numerous violations of the code. We have requested the
enforcement officer to enforce the code, a copy of our last letter to
them asking them is one of the exhibits and there has been no
enforcement.
BOARD CLERK: They haven't received it yet. I checked with them
this morning, they don't have any, there is no violations of record.
I checked on that too today, just so you'll know.
MS. BORELLI: The last letter that I wrote just yesterday they don't
have. There is an exhibit in there that there is a letter that was
written in October of 1993, itemizing the violations, the
environmental consultant's report to the Town Board, listed what the
violations were, so my client has been complaining since 1988 (loud
ringing noise) . So the original record of the complaint in 1988 of
the tower at least. We feel that the segmenting of a request is an
attempt to meet the statutory requirements by saying that they are
asking for a minimal variance, but maybe the sign is a minimal
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
variance when you think of everything else that violates the code.
But by segmenting their attempting to get in little pieces what they
really should be asking for all in one request. My brief gives a
history of this site and in fact attaches as an exhibit the brief
that we submitted to the Town Board in opposition to .the request for
a zone change. It shows you that this applicant came before this
board in 1980 to ask advice and never came back when they opened it
improper use. They went, they submitted very very late a request
for site plan .approva.l after they were pushed by the Planning Board
for site plan approval. They were told to come to this board for an
application for a variance from the tower, they submitted an
application, it was returned by this board because it was incomplete
and they never came back with a second application. The Planning
Board is never going to be able to grant site plan approval on this
site because at some point they are going to say its not just your
signs, its your tower, its your museum, because they don't meet the
code.
BOARD CLERK: I think we have a letter from the Planning Board in
the file. Right?
MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't know, I have look at it.
BOARD CLERK: OK.
MS. BORELLI: By the process of piece meal application this applicant
has been in operation since 1981, all in violation of the code. This
is 1994. That's 13 years of illegal operation and 13 years of
violations of the code with impunity and all we are asking is that
somebody enforce the code. That somebody say you can't do this
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
because it violates the code you have to come before the proper
tribunal and ask for the proper relief all at the same time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Carmela you didn't discuss this with the Town
Attorney at all, right?
MS. BORELLI: No, I didn't. I had discussed it with Mr. Arnoff
previously and in fact it was Harvey who forced this applicant to go
to the Town Board. My brief says that in essence of Mr. Arnoff's
letter said "enough is enough" and that's exactly what his letter
said. His letter said "You come before the Board and ask for a zone
change or we're going to do something about it", and that's simply
because it was delaying tactic after delaying tactic. , In fact, my
client brought me photographs tonight the Town Board's granting of
a zone change one of the conditions of the zone change was that they
screen the lot line with a fencing between their property and my
client's property. The. Town Board said preferably vegetation. They
did not do vegetation. They did those slats that go in and out of the
fence and as you can see that has never been completed so they are
in violation even of the conditions under which they were suppose to
get the zone change. You can see that this is the side view. So they
haven't even done the screening that they were suppose to do in
order to get to fulfill the condition of the zone change. I can offer
those. This is just another picture of the sign. My letter that Linda
was referring to is a letter that I wrote yesterday addressed to the
Town Board, Complaining Board, the Building Department
Enforcement Officer again with a copy to this board asking that
somebody do something because is going on some too long.
{
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. KOWALSIi: I. guess I should just mention that I spoke with
Gary Fish today, I put a memo in the record and he says that the
applicants are working with the Building Department, there are not
violations outstanding and that they do expect to get sit plan
approval very shortly. The Zoning Board is next. I'm just letting
you be aware of that, that he said there are no violations.
MS. BORELLI: 0K. There is a letter in the file that is an exhibit
here which is a letter from the Building Department that says there
are existing violations and that the only reason they haven't cited
them or issued summonses is to allow them to come before the proper
tribunal to seek variances.
BOARD CLERK: Right, but that was a building inspector that's no
longer here and I think the Gassers have done a lot since that letter
and maybe they should really bring everybody up to date.
MS. BORELLI: I met with Gary Fish and Building Department, he has
told me that the direction that the Town Building Department wants
us to take, I have met with Mr. Kassner from the Planning Board, we
are presently doing site plan approval. This variance is just one of
the stipulations that are being asked by Planning Board. That is why
we are here tonight so we can set that up, so we can go into the
Planning Board and we can finish this and get it all lined up and get
the site plan approval that is necessary. We are meeting every
condition that the Planning Board is asking us to meet and we are
doing it on a regular basis. As far as the screening of the fence is
done.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. GASSER: I don't know where they got those pictures but if you
go down Love Lane right now the screening has been done and it will
be continued on .the other side per Planning Board recommendation.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. I don't, you know, I understand there's
frustrations on both sides here and there is no question about it.
You understand what the attorney is requesting here. She is saying
that you're dealing with a segmentation in reference going to a
procedure of if there are additional variances needed instead of
requiring them all at one time. She's saying that you're doing one at
a time. OK?
BOARD CLERK: They could be done separately.
MRS. GASSER: We are being told that there are no variance, other
variances needed.
BOARD CLERK: That's exactly what I was told today too.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Unfortunately the town attorney had to go, had
something else pressing tonight and that's why we let her go.
MRS. GASSER: The tower is the question. It has been moved and it
has been moved more than 100 feet. It was moved from the front
corner piece to the back corner.
MR. CHAIRMAN: This is the tower?
MRS. GASSER: This is the tower. It was also cut down to go under
the 18 foot limit so we don't need a variance for that anymore.
MR. CHAIRMAN: . Right, OK.
MRS. GASSER: We are screening in, we have only a 50 foot width of
property. You can't put trees in there and still have something to
display. Mr. Amoretti has trees on his property that screen.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
Unfortunately a lot of those trees have died and he has had to cut
them down. If those trees were still there it would even screen more
and we were there since 1981. Mr. Amoretti has moved in since 85.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there something else you would like
to add?
MS. BORELLI: Mr. Goehringer we would really appreciate a formal
request from the Zoning Board Appeal to the Building Department
with regard to any potential violations at this site because the code
specifically says that a museum must be in a total enclosed building
that has been noted by everyone through this entire process.
Environmental Consultants before the Town Board, the Planning
Board. In fact I spoke to Russell Kassner just before he went away
on vacation and. he said "I don't care where that tower is, the Town
Board didn't have the right to grant them a variance, it is an
accessory building and it needs something". I mean I said that to him
the day he was leaving to go on to vacation.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You mean Robert Kassner?
MS. BORELLI: Yes, I'm sorry.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That alright. You had me going there for a minute.
MS. BORELLI: They, they, I would just like an official request from
this board of the Building Department to inquire into the matters
that have been noted by everyone, all along the line including people
that have been hired by the town to look into this matter because I
am not convinced that there are not violations based upon the towns
own records. If you go through the records, your files, the files of
the Building Department, the files of the Planning Department, the
c
Page 34
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
files of the Town Board, they are replete with the violations. That's
all I'm asking and that if this applicant requires more than one
variance that they not do it they way they are doing it now. They
come before you and ask for everything all at once.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OIi, thank you.
MS. BORELLI: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Anybody else would like to speak either for or
against on this application? I see no hands. I'll make a motion
closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
MEMBER VILLA: Second.
MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor.
MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much everybody for coming in.
8:30 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: The next appeal is in behalf of Donald
Brehm.
BOARD CLERK: (Question to Member Villa) You're saying no on that
vote then?
MEMBER VILLA: I think we ought to ---
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well that doesn't mean we can't write a letter to the
.town attorney and ask her opinion, which I unfortunately
inadvertently let her go tonight, you know which we could have had
an opinion at that point, I mean I don't want put the person on a
spot appearing, you know what I'm saying.
MEMBER VILLA: You're point was well taken and I think if we before
we can vote, before I vote on something like that I would like an
answer from the Building Department.
Page 35
Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
BOARD CLERK: We're planning on doing that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: . Well, we'll plan it, OK?
BOARD CLERK: OK
MEMBER WILTON: That's not a step we take in every applicant. How
do we know every every other one here tonight and everyone in the
future in the past hasn't had other violations?.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, that's why we do inspections.
MEMBER VILLA: That's right and we haven't had charges on other
ones. I see one over here, I see the accessory structure that was
placed here before. It was a violation. Did they get Building Permit
to put things there?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Well I think we should have something in writing
that would be fair.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, the appeal is 4223. This is a request for a
variance based upon the Building Inspector's March 4, 1994 Notice of
Disapproval concerning a. building permit application for a deck along
a proposed a deck addition proposed within 75 feet of the bulkhead
along Dawn Lagoon. its Article XXIII, Section 100-239.413 of the
Zoning Code. Location of Property is 1010 Maple Lane, Greenport,
N.Y. , Lot No. 60 at Cleaves Point, Section 111, County Tax Map
Parcel 1D 1000-35-5-27. The subject premises is substandard in size
in an R-40 Zone District. I have a copy of a sketch of a survey no
specific date indicatijig the approximate distance of this proposed
deck at 43 feet 8 inches which is primarily a concrete extension
leading to the steps actually its a concrete extension which is a
grade but where as closest point were 43 feet 8 inches on the
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
bulkhead and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating
this and surrounding properties in the area. Let me guess, you're
representing this one too? OK.
LINDA: I would like to add that since we made the application we
received
BOARD CLERK: I can't hear you Linda, I'm sorry.
LINDA. Since we ma.de the application we received a waiver from the
Town Trustees and a letter of non jurisdiction ----- Mr. Brehm is
here tonight and Mrs. Brehm ----
MR. CIIAIRMAN: Are there any roofs going to be placed on this
deck? No, this is completely an opened deck? OK. Do any of my
fellow board members have any specific objections to this.
BOARD CLERK: No problem.
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, I have. Why couldn't that deck just be
brought out to the extension of the closed in area and not off at an
angle so we gain a few more feet because its 48 feet to the deck and
then you've got three steps going down which brings it even closer?
45 feet, you're going to be down around 40 feet by the time you come
close to the one we just did before was 48 feet to the if you just
ran that deck out straight instead of fanning it like it is it would
be a little more palatable. Its still 12 feet deep.
LINDA: You're speaking of the concrete extension now.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Why don't you come up here Linda and we'll
MEMBER. VILLA: The proposed wood deck on the north side.
LINDA. OK, the step that's going to be closer to the bulkhead is 43
feet 8 inches.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN: He's asking why that can be why that can't be
squared off and and
MEMBER VILLA: Instead of fainting out towards the water just run it
straight in line with the closed in addition there and it will bring
you about 48 feet which is what we just gave the neighbors.
MR. GRATTON: My name is Don Gratton.
MR. CHAIRMAN: How are you Mr. Gratton?
MR. GRATTON: Yes, the question whether or not those steps could
be squared off?
MR. BREHM: Yes, they could be.
MEMBER VILLA: Not the steps, the whole deck.
MR. BREHM: Oh!
MEMBER VILLA: Because you're still going to have steps coming down
from the deck.
MR. BREHM: Its possible. I did it for the aesthetic value of it. I'm
one who likes something better, different than just a square or
rectangular deck and the best water view is off to the left towards
the water. The lagoon curves just about the southwest corner of our
bulkhead and a so for those two reasons is the way or the reason
that I designed the deck in the way that I did and also we wanted as
much deck area as we could get we do considerable entertaining and
we want to approximate 480 square foot deck. Any other questions?
MEMBER VILLA: Well that's not a mitigating condition. I mean there
just asking for something in excess of what we can grant.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess the question that we should ask you in
reality you know instead of beating around the bush can you live
with 48 feet?
MR. BREHM: Lets see. 48 feet would be to the edge of the porch?
MR. CHAIRMAN. Yeah.
MR. BREHM: Well its always possible to live with, I'm not sure ---
and a to put the deck on it with that restriction.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh. Well, we'll ask you, we'll ask the audience if
there is anybody else would like to speak and we'll recess it and
kick it around later and see what we can come up with.
MR. BREHM: Very well, thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody else would like to speak either
for or against this application? I see no hands I'll make a motion
closing the hearing reserving decision until later. All in favor?
MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I, OIi
BOARD CLERK: Mr. Brelim has something else to say.
MR. BREHM: Yes, may I add something? A, I just looked at the
sketch here the 48 feet a 48 feet 4 inches plus or minus a does come
to the deck there without the steps.
Now, I'm not sure what the question was.
BOARD CLERK: Bob, is that what your talking about?
MEMBER VILLA: That's not what shows on the ----.
MR. BREHM: If you asked if the, if that could be squared off.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Why don't you step over here and Mr. Villa.
t •
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
BOARD CLERIi: Bob, here take a look at this, this is a better scale.
That one you have is so little its hard to read.
MR. BREHM: The way I understood the question was whether or not
this deck could be made rectaiigi.ilar and of course it can't to become
within the 48 feet. Well, the 48 feet from the bulkhead would come to
this point and that's the corner of the deck.
MEMBER VILLA: That's not what it says here. It says 45 feet ----
If you can pall this point so that its 48 feet on the bulkhead ---it
can probably be because that's what we gave your neighbor.
MR. BREHM: Yes, I don't know
MEMBER VILLA. Whether its 45 feet or less then I'm not happy ---
MR. BREHM: I see, OIi so there's discrepancy between this sketch
and the survey.
MEMBER VILLA: Yes.
BOARD CLERK: Yeah, threes two different maps in the file so.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The outer edge of the bulkhead. Is that where the
problem is?
MR. BREHM: I'm not sure why the discrepancy.
MEMBER VILLA: I'm not either.
LINDA: Are you looking at the second one?
MR. CHAIRMAN: We haven't establish that yet.
BOARD CLERK: OK, I've got to look at the dates and when they
were submitted.
LINDA: The second one I gave you
BOARD CLERK: March 25?
LINDA. No.
r
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
BOARD CLERK: Yes this is the newest one here on top.
MR. BREHM: This is my old one this is the one I had.
BOARD CLERK: Oh! I make copies and I, usually put it in the boxes
the same day I get it. ------
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, Do we have an amiable figure here?
MEMBER VILLA: As long as the deck doesn't approach more than 48
feet I'm happy with it because that's all we gave the neighbor and I
live with that but if its going to be 43 feet then I'm not happy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK,' you're welcome to stay or call us tomorrow
whatever the case may be. We'll dismiss
LINDA: Just before you do the steps.
MR. BREHM: OIi, I'll worry about the steps.
MEMBER VILLA: Can you relocate the steps?
MR. CHAIRMAN. There saying the deck Bob.
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, I know that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 8:40 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN. Alright, the
next hearing is on behalf of Thomas and Joan Kelly. The legal notice
reads as follows: Its number 4226. This is a request for a variance
based upon the Building Inspector's March 10, 1994 Notice of
Disapproval concerning a building permit application to locate a
storage building within 75 feet of the bulkhead along Horseshoe Cove
at Cutchogue Harbor; Article XIII, Section 100-239.4B of the Zoning
Code. Location of Property: 1050 West Cove Road, at Nassau Point,
Cutchogue, N.Y. , . County Parcel ID 1000-111-5-1 containing 1.54
acres. Nancy, you produced this right? OK, from Steelman &
Samuels.
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
NANCY STEELMAN: Samuels & Steelman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We have a survey site plan map dated 10/15/93,
indicating the proposed storage building at the bulkhead which is in
the rear yard area towards the Gluckman property, probably within
40 to 60 feet from the Gluckman property, OIL? You're welcome to
speak. Is there something you would like to say?
NANCY STEELMAN: Well, I think the application does state forward
that primarily they're using it for boat storage, there are some
stairs, existing stairs now that are being reconstructed right to the
beach. From up to the edge of the bulkhead too much they use it
for windsurfers and various sunfish and then there is an existing
patio that it will be seen adjacent to ----
MR. CHAIRMAN: I should point out to you that this board really does
not-- has not granted any of these on the west side of Nassau Point.
OK. We don't consider the--, I shouldn't say we, I don't, I'm not
even going to get to that point. The consideration OK, on the west
side of Nassau Point is the fact that unless you have a high bluff
area then there is a hardship. OK, there is not necessarily that
situation here. OK.
NANCY STEELMAN: There is some bluff, but not a high bluff but
some.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, not a high bluff, right. I mean I went down
the stairs, I mean the walkway, and so on and so forth, that I am
aware of that. We definitely will discuss it, you know, that's all I
can tell you.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
NANCY STEELMAN: OIi. Can you give me a reason about the west
side of Nassau Point.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Well, we don't consider it to be a real hardship,
OK, and on the east side you know you have 85 foot I, I don't know
if you refer to them as bluffs, there really not bluffs there, hills,
OK.
NANCY STEELMAN: OIi
MR. CHAIRMAN: And we can see that there is a necessity no one
would ever try and drag a sailfish up or a sunfish up 85 feet you
know to the top of the bluff. OK, and in this particular case
NANCY STEELMAN: 1 think there is a post garage that's going to be
under construction pretty soon which is close to elevation change of
18 feet which was the only other area which it could store any other
kind of accessories. So there is a little bit of a climb here yes its
not even 5 feet but there is up there.
MR. CHAIRMAN: In other words they are going to apply for a
garage? Is that what your saying?
NANCY STEELMAN: There is now currently, I think its out of your
jurisdiction I would say 5 feet.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Riglit, I saw it there.
NANCY STEELMAN: Yeah, so you know if there is, there is some
distance between the edge of the bulkhead and that other storage
area being available.
BOARD CLERK: How far is the driveway?
MR. CHAIRMAN: . Its all the way over here.
BOARD CLERK: The driveway?
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, well that garage probably will come before us
because its going to be in the front yard area.
BOARD CLERK: No, not on waterfront property.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh! that's right its waterfront property. I
apologize, you're absolutely .correct.
NANCY. STEELMAN: I know, I've been before this Board and I know
you changed, so that was part of the rational for this also
is quite away from water and 'there is a hike back up to that garage.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. Well, we can on of two things here. You can
speak to the applicant and get back to us we can recess the hearing.
You can ask for a specific spot hopefully 75 feet landward of the
bulkhead.
NANCY STEELMAN: OK
MR. CHAIRMAN: Upper neck, there is parking area behind that little
bluff area, actually its a, you know I would hate to see you lose the
you know, because I mean you know there certainly is an
understanding that these things are needed in reference to people
who have waterfront property.
NANCY STEELMAN: Right, right.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Why don't you do that and we'll a
NANCY STEELMAN: OK. See the location of the other side
of that bluff area.
MR. CHAIRMAN: All riglit? Is that alright with everybody. Thank
you very much. Anybody else like to speak either for or against this
hearing? I see no hands I'll make a motion recessing it to the next
regular schedule meeting. All in favor?
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBERS: Aye.
8:46 P.M. MR. ClIAIRMAN: The next hearing is in behalf of Thomas
and Roby Gluckman. Legal notice reads as follows: This is an
application with amend►rients, concerning the property known as 1350
West Cove Road, Nassau Point, Cutchogue, NY. County Parcel ID
1000-111-5-2:
a) a variance rcgt.te:sted based upon the Building Inspector's
February 23, 1994 disapproval concerning a building permit
application to alter an existing garage with attached guest unit,
which will include an expansion .of the guest unit by more than 50
percent of its present size, Article XXIV, Section 100-241 of the
Zoning Code;
b) a variance based upon the Building Inspector's March 4, 1994
disapproval concerning a building permit application to construct an
in ground swimming pool, pool house, deck and fence enclosure, a
copy of the survey dated March. 8, 1994, indicating the proposed .
improvements on this site indicated in the legal notice I just read
and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and the
surrounding properties.
Mr. Kapell you have been very patient tonight as your applicants
have, its a pleasure to see you in your new roll for us. How are you?
MR. IiAPELL: Fine, and you Sir?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. KAPELL: MR. Chairman, Members of the Board, BOARD CLERK,
thanks for hearing us, David Iiapell, 143 Sixth Street, Greenport,
N.Y. , on behalf of the applicants, Thomas and Roby Gluckman, who
are here with us this evening. I'm going to approach these one at a
time. With respect to the conversion of the garage and the expansion
of the guest unit that is currently located in the garage to occupy
the entire garage my clients have an 11 member household and as big
as the main house is, its not big enough and when they bought the
property they bought it with the intention of expanding the existing
guest unit into this garage area. That as you know this is a well
oversized lot in a one acre zone and they have a very real need for
additional bedroom space and that's what .causes the application. In
connection with the pool and the pool house, first let me point out
that the deck surrounding the pool house will be concreted grade.
This is not going ------------ to drop down on the former deck. I
guess you've been down to the site and you seen the topography that
we're dealing with. Thuse folks have a severe drainage problem in
the area of the driveway, both the preexisting driveway and the new
driveway that they constructed and the topography of the site
dictates that this is the sole location of the pool which would be
satisfactory, and that gives rise to the request both for its
location partially in the side yard and in the front yard and also
the proximity to the bulkhead being _60 feet to the nearest corner of
the pool. Essentially with respect to the setback our problem is 15,
feet to the pool being within the 75 feet. These are our problems and
I would be glad to answer and questions you may have on this.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CIIAIRMAN: Just going back to the garage this is proposed to
be sleeping quarters only?
MR. KAPELL: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right and its my understanding that during the
period of the time that you are applying for this there is going to
some covenant on the property, that its not going to be further
subdivided? Is that correct?
MR. KAPELL: No, I didn't say that.
MR. CIIAIRMAN: You never said that. I didn't say that you said
that, that's what I heard.
MR. KAPELL: No, I don't think that has been said.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That's not been said.
MR. KAPELL: No, no.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That's not been said.
MR. KAPELL: No. What we are willing to covenant is that this
building will not be rented. Its not going to be occupied as a second
dwelling unit on the property, and we're perfectly happy to file a
covenant on the deed that its not going to be rented.
BOARD CLERK: It will be for family use only to, right?
MR. KAPELL: Excuse me.
BOARD CLERK. Family use only to, right?
MR. KAPELL: Strictly family use.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The pool house is going consist of what?
MR. KAPELL: The pool house is going to consist of
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have the plaids in front of me but I just what you
to recite it.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. KAPELL: A of, Its going to have three changing areas, a
toilet, a small wet bar and a you know like a little sink station, a
shower, what's referred to as a lounge area and in the back of the
building a. couple of storage areas for pool and play.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The only one that we granted most recently was
across the creek from you on the other side on Orchard Road and
there were specific requirewe� nts that we had on the pool house in
reference to doors to the lavatory areas and shower areas being open
to the exterior of the building.
MR. KAPELL: You what them opened to the exterior as opposed to
the interior?
MR. CHAIRMAN. Right.
MR. KAPELL: Or can they be opened?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. Well I think they can be opened to both but
we wanted them opened to the exterior of the building.
MR-. KAPELL: The lavatory and what?
MR. CHAIRMAN. The slower areas.
MR. KAPELL: I see. Do you have any problems with that?
MR. & MRS. GLUCKMAN: No, no problems.
MR. CHAIRMAN. It looks like a fairly extensive building and its
somewhat similar to the one that we granted on the other side . of
Cutchogue Harbor, except that that one was going to have a helipad
on top of it at one time. We kind of got him out of that idea really
quickly.
MR. KAPELL. We're not going for to that extent. Its not
that extensive.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN. So its not that extensive?
MR. KAPELL. Yeah.
MR. CHAIRMAN. What is the approximate height of the swimming pool
above grade? Does anyone know at this point?
MR. KAPELL. I can tell you approximately if you give me just a
moment. Roughly 25 feet. 22 to 25 feet.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Well its not above deck. That's 25 feet above sea
level.
MR. KAPELL. I'm sorry, above sea level.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Above grade, what do you think, 3 feet?
MR. KAPELL: The pool itself?
MR. CHAIRMAN: About 3 feet?
MR. KAPELL: 3 feet.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, those are all the questions I have at this
time. There is no intention of ever enclosing the pool is there?
MR. KAPELL: No.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Bob, or anyone else?
MEMBER. VILLA: About the question you refer to the guest cottage,
when I was down there .the workman said that use to be the
chauffeur's quarters.
MR. KAPELL: We are trying to be candid with you. We have no idea
how the unit was used. P really can't tell you. All I know is when
the Gluckmans bought it there was a bathroom and there's a room and
they were there. flow Mrs. Wheeler or her predecessors used it we
have no idea.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA. Alriglit, and I was there and I looked at the grade
and it would appear to me that that pool could be pivoted around so
you can get the 75 feet without much problem. You really haven't
proven any hardship. You certainly have the area to do it. I can't
understand why we have to grant when we can get the 75
without a problem.
MR. KAPELL. Well, our problem is that the drainage problem we
have in connection with our driveway is such that the road contractor
informs us that we 'have to create essentially a berm down towards
the pool house and up towards the shoulder of the road in order to
have proper drainage. There is going to be elaborate drainage
installed in connection with this driveway.
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, but that's got to be done, that's got to be
done landward with the pool house and that doesn't affect the pool,
the pool could be pivoted around so that you can get the 75 feet
without any problem.
MR. IiAPELL: Can you show me what you mean?
MEMBER VILLA. All you got to do is pivot it closer towards the
house.
MEMBER VILLA: You're going to have to either get the water to go
this way or this way.
MR. ILAPELL: No, we're trying to ---- both sides.
MEMBER VILLA. So, all you do is take this pool and go like this and
at this point this corner becomes over here and you pick up your 15
feet and the pool now runs this way. There's no big deal there.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Tommy and Roby why don't you come up?
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA. I'm the bad guy because I try to enforce the codes
and we try to protect our surface waters and everything else and
everything else runs off this way so
MR. KAPELL. I just want to correct that Mr. Villa. What we are
tryingto do is the opposite.
MEMBER VILLA. I realize that.
MR. KAPELL. Our draiiiage plan, this doesn't show the new road
which is here. Our drainage plan is to create a pitch back in this
direction to contain the runoff on this property and to direct it
away from the water which is where it currently goes.
MEMBER VILLA: But this pool could just be pivoted so that you pick
up the 15 feet to this corner here 75 and that shouldn't be a major
problem.
MRS. GLUCKMAN: There's only one problem. We have a big problem
here. Not only if you look at the topography we have a problem
here. There's a major slope here and we can't bring it up to grade
otherwise the water will go right back to the house.
MR. KAPELL: There is 35 feet Bob there you're right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: They'll be going up hill if they do that . They'll
end up probably 5 feet on the other side.
MEMBER VILLA: There's not going to be any problem. The pool is
going to be 3 feet above grade as it is. That's what said.
MRS. GLUCKMAN. But this is 5 feet above grade and if we raise it
up too high we're going right back
MR. KAPELL. They have to go closer to that 25 foot contour so that
on the other side there's a whole lot more slope right here.
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Regular Meeting of April G., 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER, DINILIO. ------------45 foot contour .right here.
MR. KAPELL. Right, but look how close the 20 foot is where you put
MR. DINIZIO. There's 20 so.
MR. KAPELL. Right, but look to see how wide it is at one point and
then it closes right tip. There's a good size slope.
MEMBER VILLA. The pool is up almost up to 25 feet here.
MR. KAPELL. Right.
MEMBER VILLA. So if you run it like this you're going to be I, I
think you would think that 15 feet would be
MR. KAPELL: The angle of the slop --- here it's constant versus,
here you're going into the slop.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nancy, do you want to comment on this? You're
welcomed to cootie up if you want.
MEMBER VILLA: You're building a concrete structure here which
shouldn't present a problem. I can't quite see it myself. It -----
there between 75 feet for a reason I would you know. We usually give
it because there's no place 'else to put it or its a smaller plot. You
got amble room here.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That's what happens when you get two engineers
together.
MRS. GLUCKMAN: -------I want just want to check a little bit on
what's proposed on (too many people speaking at one time)
MEMBER VILLA. Where you say its you're probably -----
MR. GLUCKMAN. ------ ------ there's a tremendous drop at the
other end of the pool.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
(Can't distinguish voice) You have a drop then from this edge of the
pool down --------- slope is that it? MR. RAPELL. This is fairly flat.
(Can't distinguish voice) . What's the elevation of the pool?
Mr. GLUCIIMAN. About 22-23 feet.
(WOMAN) OK, so you're very close to --
MR. GLUCIIMAN. If we stay in that area we don't have a problem.
It's fairly flat. Where the problems are either on this side or on
this side. That's where the grade change takes place. That's why we
chose this location and I know its been looked over in great detail
by both the road contractor who is creating the drainage for the road
and by the pool contractor who is going to install the pool. We
really feel that this is the only location where we can put it.
Woman's voice) I just like to know too that my client doesn't have a
problem with the location of the pool here. They're only concern was
screening along this edge.
MR. GLUCIIMAN: No problem. I spoke to ------
MEMBER VILLA. What's your pool house going to be? What elevation
your pool 'house going to be? It's going to be at the same elevation?
MR. GLUCIIMAN: No, this is going to be a 20-25 feet. Its fairly flat
here.
MEMBER DINlZIO: No, all I'm saying is that one side of the pool is
going to be very ---- You're still going to have to move all of this.
MEMBER VILLA. You're going to have to grade anyway because
you're going to be cutting in. If this is going to be an elevation of
say 22 you're
MR. GLUCIIMAN. That's an existing elevation.
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA. You're saying that the pool is going to be about 3
feet above grade: So if you're going from elevation 28 ,you're saying
its going to be 3 feet, right? So that's 22 back here, you're going
to be down about 5 feet from the bank if you're telling me
that's the way the grade goes because here is 25 ---- 35 you're
going to be about 6 feet into that bank cutting down you've got
enough build to bring down to put into that pool if you relocate it
because this is going to be at least 22 you're going to be fighting
like heck into there.
(Voice unknown) ------------ Will have no problem if we prime
directed that way because if its sticking up
MEMBER VILLA: You're going to still be directing it back here
because whatever you do you're going to try and contain the water
Here.
(Voice unknown) The grade runs here you know and you sought of
shooting it up because ------
MEMBER VILLA: Good, that would be great here because this pool
house and the pool is going to be at the same elevation. You're not
going to be working up and down steps?
MRS. GLUCKMAN: Mr. Villa I just spent 2-1/2 hours with Mr. Corzini
today and it is very important you speak to him also because he got
to actually regrade the whole thing so that it goes back.
MEMBER VILLA. 'That's right and you're going to be doing that
landward of the pool louse.
MRS. GLUCKMAN. No, we have two problems. Yes, but we also have
this problem.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. GLUCKMAN. We don't want to regrade all of this.
MEMBER VILLA. But you're going to be doing, it anyway because
you're going to be cutting into this. This is going to be an
elevation (too many people speaking) .
MR. KAPELL. What it boils down to it is going to substantially affect
the aesthetics of the site if they start to disturb the grade in that
area. That's what it really boils down to so I think it would cost
the applicants to maybe reconsidering the entire project at that
point.
MR. CIIAIRMAN: Can I just ask a question? Is there any need Bob
for you to go down there and meet with any of these people prior to
us making a decision or prior to your making a decision?
MR. VILLA: I just can't see where we established. a hardship or a
fact why we can't pivot the driveway? We got amble room to do it and
they ever grade to me it looks like its going to be altered anyway.
If there pitching that whole thing back there going to have to work
on it. Its nice you have a plan and you want to stick to it but we
have to always give.
MR. KAPELL: Well let me just say that we have sat here tonight
through several other various applications and there are a number of
them involved ---- set back ------ with some much more severe than
what we are asking for. This is relatively minor considering some of
the other request you have before you tonight. We have a functioning
bulkhead, I don't think we've threatened the water in anyway, shape
or form. Frankly, we have two bulkheads between this pool and
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
water. I think its a little out of contents to consider it such a
severe ----
MR. VILLA. Well you liave to also justify you're action when you
have a lot that is this big that you can work with.
MR. IiAPELL. Well, if you've been down there you see the
topography of the site. There's a hill that rises up like this behind
this property.
MEMBER VILLA. I realize that.
MR. hAPELL. So most of the property is unusable for the purposes
of this pool. It so happens that this is the only site we feel we can
work with and that's our, hardship.
MEMBER VILLA: And its a minor deviation really to just shift it back
15 feet.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is. there any way that we can -------- any ------
on this, I mean I'm not trying to put Mr. Villa in an awkward spot.
MEMBER VILLA: I would like to see the pool laid out the way it
shows here and then where the 75 foot line would be.
MR. KAPELL: Sure, I'll make sure that is done.
MEMBER VILLA: Right.. Give me a call I'm home.
MR. KAPELL: Ok.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we'll call, you know, barring any other
discussions here we'll close the hearing but remember we have`a time
limit running. I know that you have a time limit too because I'm sure
you want to get most of this work done in the spring.
BOARD CLERIi. We have 62 days.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. KAPELL. No, but we would like to accommodate the board in any
way we can.
MR. CHAIRMAN. So, lets see if we can come to some agreement.
MR. KAPELL. Sure.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Prior to this, you know there doesn't appear to be
any other particular problems.
MR. KAPELL. We'll have it state so that its clear next week.
MEMBER VILLA. Let him, let him set the grade at the top of the pool
too alright.
MR. KAPELL. Set the grade. You mean just a spot, a spot elevation?
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, as to what the top of the pool would be. If
you're saying its 22 feet, lets see what the top of the pool would
be, alright.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Is that alright?
MR. KAPELL: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Maybe we can come to some agreement here prior to
'the vote and everybody ---- good.
MR. IiAPELL: very .good, Thank you very much.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You're welcome, thank you. Would anybody else like
to speak in favor of this application.? Would anybody like to speak
against the application? If at all possible a Saturday morning would
be great cause I'd like to go also.
MR. IiAPELL: That's fine. How about a week from Saturday?
MR. CHAIRMAN. How about a week from Saturday? Are you going to
be here? Lets see that's
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Regular Meeting of April 6, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA. Not the 24th, if its the 24th, its the week before
-----I'm not going to be here.
MR. CHAIRMAN. NO, no, no, I'm not going to be here the 24th.
BOARD CLERK. The 16th, would be the 16th? A week from this
Saturday?
MR. CHAIRMAN. The .16th?
MR. KAPELL. Lets do it the 16th. That's fine.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Whcn do you want to go, 9:30 or 10:00 o'clock?
MEMBER VILLA. 10:00' o'clock is fine.
BOARD CLERK. 10:00.
MR. KAPELL. We'll see you there at 10:00 o'clock. Thank you very
much, I appreciate your time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: 10:00 o'clock. Hearing no further comment I hereby
make a motion recessing the hearing and, I'm, I'm sorry, closing the
hearing and we'll hold the decision off until after the inspection.
MR.S IiOWALSKI: Who wants to second that?
MEMBER VILLA: Second.
MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
MEMBERS. Aye.
9:05 P.M. The next application is Richard and Dolores Principi. The
notice reads as follows: We have a copy of a survey produced by
Rodrick Vail Tuyl, dated November 3, 1993, indicating the proposed
relocation of this parcel, relocation of the house on this parcel,
cottage oil this parcel I should say and a copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area.
Would you like to be heard Mrs. Principi?
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. PRINCIPI. I guess so.
MR. CHAIRMAN. We'll grill you. Is there anything you would like to
state for the record I should ask?
MRS. PRINCIPI. No, I just have some pictures they recommended that
I take some pictures and bring them. I think you've all been up
there. What I want to point out when I talk about some of this, this
is the line, the electric line that has to be moved and dropped and
at a great cost.
MEMBER VILLA. You got any estimates of the cost?
MRS. PRINCI111. They said it would run about $5,000. This here is
where my house has been moved, 35 feet from the bluff line. It
shows that its behind all the other 8 houses that are around me. All
Of these other louses
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, all the other 8 houses belong to you or a
family member?
MRS. PRINCIPI: No, no. There's one to the east that use to be the
Webbs, I don't know who it is now. That's maybe like 10 feet off the
bluff. There's another one further west, no east, that belongs to a
stranger, I don't know who it is, but there even closer to the lot.
MR. CHAIRMAN. So you don't own any of these?
BOARD CLERK. You don't own next door? Because the town shows
that you own the one inert door.
MRS. PRINCIPI: I own part. It's a corporation and we are part of
that. That's closer to the bluff. That's CPF. The one to the east of
me is my brother-in-law and his is the about the only one that's
behind the Roshin postal line of 30 feet.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA. Who's that?
MR. CHAIRMAN. That's ZCM.
MRS. PRINCIPI. I1cre is all of the other cottages that are closer so
I'm not going to start you know something that is 'different. As a
matter of fact illy house going back I'm still further back than all of
them, of all 8, including the two neighbors that are not any family
members.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Do you have any idea on how much bluff you've lost
there in reference to in the past few years?
MRS. PRINICPI. Yes, in fact I had a neighbor, he was going to a
within the year the neighbor was going to buy the furthest house
west and he has since past away so I don't have it. But we've had
this for 35 years. The house that I have was like 2 feet to the bluff
then, when I bought it.
MR. PRINCIPI: Quite some time ago and then we had that first
hurricane and it undermined and the whole shelf came down and we
had a. good growth there too.
MRS. PRINCIPI: So in 35 years I'd say we've lost 3 feet under the
house and you rolled it away under the house and what we did we
thought be thought we'd put some until we were financially able to
fix it. We put some steel bars underneath it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I saw that, yeah.
BOARD CLERK: Yeah, we have a photograph here. I don't know if
you saw that or not.
MRS. PRINCIPI. That's what we did too and then we have that all
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MR. CHAIRMAN. So you're proposing 35 feet from the top of the bar?
MRS. PRINCIPI. Yes, I'm proposing 35 feet to give me 5 feet away
from the coastal erosion and these are all -the houses showing that
there all so that its not that I'm going to be out of character.
MR. PRINCIPI. The DEC gave us a, a, what is it, within 30 days we
got a
MRS. PRINCIPI. We got a. DEC approval the first time.
MR. PRINCIPI. To remove it off the cliff and put it in a safe place
which we realize right in front of the power lines and we put our
piers in not knowing that we had go back to the building department
otherwise we would of checked with them first.
MRS. PRINCIPI: Then I talked with the town attorney. I wrote her a
letter, she suggested that they remain one another amended from the
DEC and they did it for us right away and that's when we picked it
up.
MR.. CHAIRMAN: Now, is this the purpose permanent foundation that
this is on now? These pierces, or is this only a temporary thing?
MR. PRINCIPI: No, no, the piers are dug down was a 3 feet concrete
and we're ready to set it down.
MRS. PRINCIPI: We didn't take it off. We still have it on the house
movers-----
MR. CHAIRMAN: I saw it.
MRS. PRINCIPI. But its going to move over on those pilings that we
have there. That will be 15 feet from the prop line because this is
an R.&R Zoning.
BOARD CLERK. It's in a temporary spot right now.
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MR. CHAIRMAN. Temporary right now.
MRS. PRINCIPI. The Ilellse, but the pilings are where we want it.
That's where its staked out.
BOARD CLERK. Is that '35 feet. Did you measure when you went out
there? Was it 35 feet ----
MR. CHAIRMAN. Its in the range of 35 feet, I didn't measure it. The
wind was blowing so hard I got out of the car and it blew me in one
direction and I came back in the opposition direction.
MR. PRINCIPI. Its beautiful if there is no wind though.
MRS. PRINCIPI: I have some letters from the neighbors. You know
their all in favor. They don't mind at all.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anything else you want to mention for the
record?
MRS. PRINCIPI: What, what do you need?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well we'll see if there is any question.
MRS. PRINCIPI: What I'm trying to say is that this location where we
want to put it, it would be financially better for us at this point
in time. And the other thing is it, this location wouldn't impose any
environmental disturbance whatsoever and because of the shape of
our lot its very irregular lot. To go back I'd be facing everybody's
backyards and the main and the main thing but, is going to take
away my value from my water front and also the pleasure of enjoying
the water from-the back and that's just what I want to stay.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Let me just ask you a question. This here cottage,
this was the cottage that was over, right? So now you've moved it
over to here. This is what, this is not two cottages on there?
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MRS. PRINCIPI. NO, no. This is where it was.
MR. PRINCIPI. We have an odd piece of property see and the
surveyor put it, we maintained a side lines see otherwise
MRS. PRINCIPI. And this here is a garage, practically hanging over
that belongs to the other cottage.
Mr. chairman. Right. Now that cottage you own a portion of it, its in
the corporation ----?
MRS. PRINCIPI. Yes, that's in our corporation.
MR. CHAIRMAN: And do you own anything else down there? Just
that one?
BOARD CLERK: Then you're on this side too, right?
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, her brother-in-law owns it.
BOARD CLERK: Oh! Dominick is the brother, OK, sorry.
MRS. PRINCIPI: That's OK. Sometimes the initials -----
BOARD CLERK: Yeah, fools me.
MR. CHAIRMAN: There's basically 3 in, in or around the same
relationship but you just own the one to the west, a portion, part of
the one in the west?
MRS. PRINCIPI: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: And after you get past your brother-in-law
everything else has bucn deeded out to other people?
MR. PRINCIPI. Right, Yes.
Mr. CHAIRMAN. I'm sorry, what was the question?
BOARD CLERK. There's a photograph of steel beams there. When was
the steel beams put into the bluff area there?
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MRS. PRINCIPI. We Put that in after the first, you see, all this
damage was done in the last year, when we had the first storm but
no name storm, I think in November.
MR. PRINCIPI. It undermined see. Then the second storm, the whole
shelf cattle down.
MRS. PRINCIPI. And then there was another storm in December and I
don't know when the other was. It was three together.
BOARD CLERK. OIi
MR. PRINCIPI. When we bought the place 35 years ago it was all
bare. Then we threw leaves, limbs and then the ground covering
came in and we had a good growth.
BOARD CLERK: So those beams were put in there around November
of last year?
MRS. PRINCIPI: Yeah, yeah.
BOARD CLERK: OIi, thank you.
MEMBER : And once you put in to alter the building what's
--------- oil those pile leaves?
MRS. PRINCIPI: I'm not going to do. I'm just going to do exactly the
satrie ------- Oh'. alter, I have to move, I have to move this bedroom
from one side to the other side. Is that what you mean?
MEMBER No, you're going to do a second story, or getting
larger?
MRS. PRINCIPI. No, its strictly a summer cottage. Its a its listed as
a summer resident, seasonal residential something like that.
MR. CHAIRMAN. There's no heat or anything in there?
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MR. PRINCIPI. No. We had belly stoves when we bought it and they
were all stolen by the hunters years ago.
MRS. PRINCIPI That's why we put the fence up because they've
taken our couches, our stoves and whatever else.
BOARD CLERK. Stolen by the hunters!
MR. PRINCIPI. Even though we allowed them hunting but then some
take advantage of it you don't want to, it always happens.
MR. CHAIRMAN. That a tough right-of-way to get out of. Boy! I'll
tell you.
MR. PRINCIPI: 1 know.
MEMBER VILLA: How do you reconcile the difference configuration of
the building? Where it was it had a wing out to the (several people
talking)
MRS. PRINCIPI: Because its an R&R we had to do 15 feet instead of
10 feet or so►iwthing like that.
BOARD CLERK: Yes, yc�ili.
MRS. PRINCIPI: So we lost 5 feet.
MEMBER VILLA: But you actually can put it on the side where its
the closest, if you would of left it over there you would of had more
room.
MRS. PRINCIPI: But then my door and everything would be
different. The way we had to tilt it for some how or other.
MEMBER VILLA. I just: couldn't figure out what you did because it
looks like you just slid it over.
MR. PRINCIPI. No, that, that was that one bedroom was apart. No,
we took it apart. The bedroom is where I had railroad tracks
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underneath ---- on the beach. People thought I was
ready to come down but it was pretty well anchored you know
--------- . Well I knew eventually we would have to move it if there
was another storm after.
MR. CIIAIRMAN. Is diere anyone else who would like to speak in
favor? Anybody against? I see no hands, I'll make a motion closing
the hearing reserving decision until later. We'll kick it around
tonight or
MRS. PRINCIPI. How much later? Do you have any idea because the
other cottages were a. little ---------along the water line.
MR. PRINCIPI: There waiting for me to hook up back to where------
BOARDCLERK: You're not going to ask for the engineer's report?
We talked to the Town Attorney about that before.
MEMBER VILLA: Yes, we did ask her, she did ask for it.
MEMBER VILLA: You Inive well water up there?
MRS. PRINCIPI: Yes
MR. CIIAIRMAN: Now, your engineer past away, is that correct?
MRS. PRINCIPI: We had, we had an engineer that was going to buy
the house to the west and he did a tape report of it, so I asked the
lady who was going to buy it to send me if he would -------- and
she just called me back this past week and she said he past away and
I just couldn't take on a.notlier expense because no matter what he
says its God's will. I mean he could say its going to erode one foot
a year. If God comes along and does like he did with these last three
storms.
(Voice unknown) It may never happen.
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
MRS. PRINCIPI. Or it may not happen again. I've had it 35 years
and I never lost so much. So what is, what is, you know, this
engineer going to tell me?
MEMBER Wouldn't you want to move it back further just in
case?
MRS. PRINCIPI. NO, I don't want to do it because I can't afford it
right now and I'll be out of character with the other properties
around there and it doesii't warrant it because when the time is right
I would like to put a new home there and I, I just can't do it at
this time.
BOARD CLERK: IIow rDuch more is it going to cost for you to move it
back?
MRS. PRINCIPI: Oh! I'll have to do everything all over again. I'll
have to do the pilings over, I'll have to do the cesspool, I've got
to do water lines.
MR. PRINCIPI: The piers are all in.
MRS. PRINCIPI: I'm already into this project, its just being silly
thing with $400 variance permit, DEC permits. I'm into it almost
$13,000 for a shack.
MR. PRINCIPI: I think if ►ny house has to go, I think the other 5
cottages are going to go first.
MRS. PRINCIPI. It would just be out of character for me to put a
new home in there when,. wlieu there all so bad you know in repair.
BOARD CLERK. Iiow long have they been there, about?
MRS. PRINCIPI. We've owned it for 35 years.
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
BOARD CLERK. So its been there probably 35 years before that too,
right?
MRS. PRINCIPI. Yeah, I think a Mr. Williams from Southold ------
he had it quite a while.
BOARD CLERK. Thanks.
MR. CHAIRMAN.'Thank you.
MRS. PRINCIPI. What is procedure now? Do I call, or how long of
time so I can go back and tell the others?
MR. CHAIRMAN. Why don't you call us.
BOARD CLERK: In a day or two, probably Friday.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, call us Friday,
MRS. PRINCIPI: Thank you, thank you very much.
BOARD CLERK: You're welcome.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
BOARD CLERK: They have the lock off the gate. The chain is off too
you said right?
MRS. PRINCIPI: Yeah, actually we took the lock off and the chain
wasn't locked.
BOARD CLERK: OK.
MR. PRINCIPI: The chain was up but
MRS. PRINCIPI: So then we said . lets take the chain home so
somebody doesn't put it Lip thinking, but also I just waist to ask you,
it isn't that we're asking for a variance for something that we want
to do, it was just nature that is forcing us into all of this and I
think that should be taken into consideration at this time.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Thank you.
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MR. PRINCIPI. Good night.
BOARD CLERK. Good night.
MR. CHAIRMAN. I see no hands again I'll make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later. All in favor?
MEMBERS. Aye .
9:25 P.M. MR.. C IIA1 R.MAN. Appeal No. 4228 in behalf of Victor and
Gail Rerisi, as contract vendees. This is a request for a variance
based upon the Building Inspector's March 15, 1994, a copy of a
survey produced by Robert Van Tuyle, P.C. , the parcel has a notch
boat slip approximately across from Marine Place, closes portion to
the proposed deck is 35 feet and its 53 feet from the proposed house.
I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Would you like to be heard Sir?
Ma'am? Both of you?
GAIL RERISI. Igor the applicant ----- as contract vendees. This is a
request for variance for relief from the 75 foot setback required for
both headed properties pursuant to the Zoning Code, Section
100-239.4B. Before I go any further I want to give to the board
consents that were obtained from the two adjacent property owners to
the subject premises.
BOARD CLERK: We have one of them already.
MRS. RERISI. OIt, you have the original, 0K. The subject premises
known as 800 Snug IIarbur Road, East Marion, a/k/a as Section 35,
Block 5, Lot 37. The Subject premises consists of a lot 26,500 square
feet in size, over 100 feet of which is bulkheaded property. There
are practical dif.f.icultlUS with this lot in placing a dwelling within
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
the envelope on -a lot of 26,500 square feet. Due to the unique
character of the subject premises and this consists of the inlet
which you refer to with the boat slip. The inlet is 60 feet wide,
excuse me, 60 feet deep and 35 feet wide and this inlet intrudes into
the property and further more this inlet is unique. It doesn't exist
on any of the property aloiig the
MR. CHAIRMAN. I know why too.
MRS. RERISI. Do you?
MR. CHAIRMAN. Yeah, because it belong to the owner who
developed the property.
MRS. RERISI: Oh, OK. Well in order to verify that I have a copy of
the filed map and its map number 3521 which dates back to March of
1962 and it shows the subject premises as highlighted, now offered as
an exhibit. That's the only one there with that notched inlet.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MRS. RERISI: The relict' that we're requesting here tonight is not
substantial. The proposed dwelling inclusive of the deck has variable
setbacks from the bulkhead. There's a maximuili of approximately 90
feet and a tape is down to a minimum of 35 feet. That's inclusive of
the proposed dwelling; and the deck. If you measure just to the
proposed house to the bulkheading then you have a maximum setback
of approximately 115 feet tapering down to a minimum of 53 feet. Now
the minimum setback of 35 feet only occurs at the base of the inlet
for the proposed deck, but for the inlet we would be able to
conform, there would be no problem. I know we submitted pictures
with the application but just in case there not readily available I
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
have pictures of the inlet taken from Gold Pond, taken from Snug
Harbor Road aand on the reverse an aerial view with the subject
premises indicated.
MR. CHAIRMAN. This is a magnificent piece of property.
MRS. RERISI. We think so, that's why we're here. OK, there will be
not substantial change in the neighborhood also. In fact, in
researching it, there are other properties in the neighborhood and
which such relief has been requested and has been received and
rather than go tlirouglr with you know a verbatim list I'm reading it
to the board. Again, offer as an exhibit. It's just a partial list.
This is a list of other properties in the area that relief has been
requested and again also indicated on the filed map. The subject
property is in orange and the other ones are in yellow. Also,
previously according to the Board of Assessors Record, there has
been a permit issued .oil this property and its permit number 42437
and that's for an accessory building and this permit was granted
back to 1969 and there's also a picture in the files of the accessory
building and it was located right at the base of the inlet. Again,
another exhibit. Most importantly there are no other alternatives to
placing the proposed dwelling on this lot. The DEC is requiring us to
stay 75 feet away from the southeast corner of the subject premises.
Once you try and put the proposed dwelling or an envelope outside
that 75 foot are we are now in conflict with the 75 foot setback from
the bulkliead and a.ga.in, but for that requirement we would be able to
comply oil all counts but we just, we can't but for the inlet. If the
inlet wasn't there. If it was just straight across there would be no
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
problem. I mean on a piece of property this size we're just running
into a problem on where to put it.
MR. CHAIRMAN. I'm only presupposing something before you finish.
MRS. RERISI. Sure.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Why didn't you place the deck on that side of the
house.
MR. RERISI: The deck is, by the way this is a proposal rather than
have to come back to the board at a later date this is probably going
to be the deck put in eventually, but the reason we did that it's
just and envelope and its just, you know we stayed within the 75 feet
is the arc in here for the 75 feet from the ----------
MR. CHAIRMAN. I see.
MR. RERISI: OK, so we wanted to keep it in there and then you
know we took this point to the proposed envelope for the house. The
house is not going to be that big. It's just and envelope so that we
don't have to come back to' the board at a future date I'm sure you
know we are going to want to put a deck eventually, but there still
is over a 100, well 90 feet from the deck to the actual canal. Which
is again, which is just a proposal we have there we'll work with the
board, but I didn't want to have to come back here a year from now
after we built the lwuse.
MRS. RERISI. But it, it goes right back into that are because the
DEC is telling us to stay out of. That's why its on that side.
MR. RERISI. It was, it was like juggling, I mean trying to get this
thing to work.
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MR. CHAIRMAN. 1, I don't want to confuse you in your presentation,
you were doing a. great job. Continue.
MRS: RERISI. Oh! OIi. Now, lastly I would also like to point out that
it doesn't itilpiiige upon the health, so safety or welfare of others
and in fact we have authorization from the Town Trustees to build a
one family dwelling and this just came the other day its permit
number 4300.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. OIi. Bob, you want to ask some
questions?
MEMBER. VILLA: Well, I have the same questions. You have a
building envelope there that's 40 feet deep, 115 feet across, I don't
have a problem with that envelope being 53 feet from the boat base, I
can understand that but I can't see why the deck couldn't be position
where it will also be 53 feet.
MR. RERISI: Well, the problem is if you take 53 feet and you scale
it, you don't have anything left for the deck.
MEMBER VILLA: The deck could be put on the north side as far as
that goes.
MR.. RERISI: You still got to stay out of that 75 feet.
MEMBER VILLA. No, no I'm talking you could even have that, you
could even have the ducl� over there.
MR. RERISI. No, its going to be a garage. That's where the garage
is going to go. When it was originally shown that was wrong. There's
going to be a garage at the end of the house. You want 53 feet, you
can see where it brings it, you're almost into the 75 foot arc.
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
MEMBER VILLA. Well, who's dictating that 75 foot arc? The
----------- is basically disturbed land.
MRS. RERISI. The DEC and in fact there's a letter in with the
application where the DEC is giving us preliminary approval as long
as we stay outside the 75 foot circumference.
BOARD CLERK. Yes, yes, we have it.
MR. RERISI. The DEC is really you know with the 75 feet it just
messes everything Lip.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, this property is for you guys, right?
MR. RERISI: It's for us. Gail and I. She, she is just better at
organizing things.
MEMBER VILLA. We just went through two others and you know we
were pushing for 48 feet.
MR. RERISI: Well, well we had, we have one here where a variance
was granted in that same community for 40 feet and again we're not
asking, it's 90 feet frum the bulkliea.d and it's just because of that
inlet.
MEMBER VILLA: I realize that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me just ask you a question. Do you think that
there may come a. time when you might rather put a cement slab?
MR. RERISI. Here's the thing with a cement slab and that could very
well be. However, and with a cement slab there's a natural grade
going down so .obviously the cement can't be on an angle. Its got to
be elevated.
MEMBER VILLA. That's what I was saying before, you're still going
to have ----
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MIt. RERISI. You know wliere not and just even if you look at where
that deck is proposed it's still within the building line of all the
other Houses. It's still 90 feet there. You know we're not building
beyond, its just
MRS. RERISI. In fact, it's set back from the house to the north
position to the north of it.
MR. RERISI. If you look at Koch's house on that thing, in the back
of Koch's house the deck is, only sticks probably maybe 8 or 9 feet
beyond Koch's house. That's the building line next door. I had the
surveyor put it on here. Again, I'm not trying to, I, I know what
you're saying and I appreciate what you're saying.
MEMBER VILLA: Can you do away with that boat slip? I mean some of
that bulkhead looks like it needs repair already.
MR. RERISI: Some of it is going to need some repair, but no, to
start filling in, I think the DEC will ----.
MRS. RERISI. I don't want to, Oli! My God!
MR. CHAIRMAN: Just for the history of the parcel, the parcel
belongs, belonged at one time, never belonged, it was developed for
Mrs. Schwartz, I think is the daughter of Bern and Teddy Kaplan
who developed the property and they had two boats. One was an
attorney and the other one was a CPA and those boats were kept on
that slip all the time they lived in Centereach.
MR. RERISI. We have a picture, we have a picture here of a boat, of
a boat in a slip.
BOARD CLERK. That could be it, I don't know because this dates
back to I think, the seventies.
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. RERISI. But, I. mean as far as the notches are concerned
MR. CHAIRMAN. Their first development was in Mattituck, then they
went to this on(-,, the next one they did.
MR. RERISI. That's why we fell in love with it because of that notch
and this to me is, yeah that's going to be a retirement house for us.
MEMBER WILTON. If you lined up the decks then there is part to be
the water you draw a line between your two neighbors' decks would
you be ------
MR. RERISI: The neighbor does not have a deck. Koch doesn't have
a deck next door., that's the back of their house. That's the actual
back of their house and their house extends even beyond that. The
house is like L-shaped, just, just that one corner, the south corner,
but the north corner goes out even closer to the water and, and
their house is, doesn't even conform. The corner, of their house is
less than 75 feet to a. '
MEMBER WILTON:------- furthest back. That would be
BOARD CLERK: There, there's a list in there. . ----some of them
are setback to the houses and they were not for variances, they were
built Without variances.
MR. RERISI. I'm, I'm closer to the street. I did that not to ------up
there. We worked on it and we tried to and then tried to conform
with what the DEC waisted, it's a garde, I mean it's -----
MR. CHAIRMAN, It is a game. Yeah, a game of numbers.
MRS. RERISI. Well, it's just in view of the fact the size property
and to put it a. relatively modest house in there it's unbelievable
the problems we're running into in placing it. If it drew an are of
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Southold Town Board of Appeals
75 feet from the bulkhead and 75 feet from the other we would have
room for a lean-to right in the middle. I mean that's a shame, but
some of the other properties I don't think indicated the footage back
from the bulkhead, if it goes down. There's one I think that's is 32
feet from the bulkhead and it goes up to 50 feet, there's one 40
feet, so there are instances in the area.
MR. CHAIRMAN: R.ibht, yeah.
MEMBER VILLA: 'I'll(:) proposed deck is 20 by 40.
MR. RERISI: That's, that's just an envelope again. All I did Mr.
Villa was put. ail envelope in. I mean, I'll welcome you on that. I
have no problem with
MEMBER. VILLA: I'm just trying to maximize briefly on the report
before the -----
MR. RERISI: No, no, but we have 90 feet. We have like 90 feet here.
MEMBER VILLA: OIi. I don't have a. problem with that. I don't have
a problem with 53, I have a problem with the 35.
MR. RERISI: What I did was -------. The house is not going to be
any where near that, but it's going to be placed somewhere in there
you know and then the deck you know I can't move it this way
because of this arc. This, this 75 foot arc is right here.
MR. CHAIRMAN. What Happens if we put a diagonal on the deck on
that side Bob?
MEMBER BOB . That will be fine. Hey, if I can go 48 feet to the
other two, I could live with something like that. You know we got 58
feet ill the neighburhuud for this.
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MRS. RERISI. The only thing is I, I mean I'm, I'm not at necessarily
adverse to the diagunal, but again, if I could distinguish this from
the previous applications tonight, whereas I think for the most part
those property lines in the bulkheading ran straight across and it
was 40 feet or 48 foot more or less evenly across the property here
but for this one corner. I mean we, in excess of the 75 feet,and
that's the problem.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Rig-lit.
MRS. RERISI : Again, we're not necessarily adverse but I'm, I'm just
distinguishing this to the prior applications.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Oh, yeah, there's, there's a more unique----- to
this of property, there's no question about it. You're absolutely
correct.
MR. RERISI: My proble►n is we're running into a time problem with,
we're under contract to buy this property in.
MR. CIAIRMAN: I'll give you a decision right now as soon as he
comes up with a number.
MR. RERISI: OIi.
MEMBER VILLA. Well what can they 'live with?. I mean, you know you
got an envulope fur a duck of 40 by 20. That's 800 square feet for a
deck which is Huge.
MR. RERISI. It's not guhig to be that big.
MEMBER VILLA. You've got an envelope for a house that's 115 by 40
which is huge.
BOARD CLERK. They say their flexible.
MEMBER VILLA. OK.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1.994
Southold Town Board of. Appeals
MR. RERISI. The deck, I think is 18 feet.
MEMBER VILLA.. It shows, I scale it off at 20 because there's no
dimensions.
MR. RERISI: It should be I think it's 18. Maybe it's 20. Can you let
me go 15 feet? I might not even build this deck. I mean I just here
so I don't have to pay another $400.
MEMBER VILLA: Well, that, that's why I wanted to address it at this
point too, so that
MR. RERISI: No, I appreciate that.
MEMBER VILLA: We don't give one variance and then come back for
another variance.
MR. RERISI: I don't want to do that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Why doii't you make it 45 Bob for the unique ----?
MEMBER. VILLA. Make it 45 alright.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We'll give you 45 and then you know.
MR. RERISI: Can I just show you what 45 does in that.
MR. CHAIRMAN. I understand, I know it does, but I'm suggesting
that you clip the deck or at least some way get creative because
there's no view in that direction anyway.
MR. RERISI. OIL, so if I do 40.
MEMBER, VILLA. You're house might not be, you're house might not
be 40 feet deep.
MR. RERISI. No, no, might not. be. It might
MEMBER VILLA. It miglit. be 36 or 34. 40 is an average house, you're
picking up distance there too.
r Page 79
Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. RERISI. We're over here. If you take 45 feet, this is 50 that's
45, right? Look what it does, look at. the arc, I can't, I can't ----
I mean if you roll this thing around it.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Yeah, but I was suggesting you might do, you
might is you Might, you might put you might cut a scallop out of this
and put the stairway goiiig in here or going down from here.
MR. RERISI: You waist me to cut out a whole corner I'd be more than
happy to.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm just. You know this may all change in, in years
to come but at least we have some figure tonight, because I don't
want you to go away, you know we're fighting over a deck which is
really something that's going to be built in the future.
MR. RERISI: Can I take out, can I take out a corner on that deck if
it's alright with the board? Right out of the corner how about taking
out a maybe 9 by 9 out of the corner by just lock out that corner?
MR. CIAIRMAN: Well that's going to be the same thing.
MEMBER. VILLA. You waking this distance the nearest the nearest
distance to that. lagooii 45 feet?
MR. RERISI. Yeah,
MEMBER VILLA. Fine.
MR. RERISI. What I'm saying is if we can do this --- If we can just
lock out a corner like this?
BOARD CLERK. We're giviiig you a building envelope that you can
work in, that's all, you can change it.
MR. RERISI. Yeah, that's what. I mean.
MEMBER VILLA. I don't even know if you designed your house yet.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. RERISI. I haven't.. I call show you pictures of what I want.
MEMBER VILLA. So you end, you end up now with an envelope and
you design a house and a deck to fit in there. That's all you do.
MR. RERISI: OK, call we, then call we agree on taking out on the
corner of the proposed deck 9 by 9 just to ------- from that side
over there?
BOARD CLERK: There going to give you a setback. You're going to
get the setback. It's probably a 40 foot setback.
(All talking at one time)
MR. RERISI: We'll negoLiate for 40 foot setback if it's alright with
the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, whose making that motion? No, no structures
any closer than 44 feet.
BOARD CLERK: Wllo, wlio made the motion?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Bob?
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, I'll make the motion.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Thank you.
MEMBER I'll second it.
MR. CHAIRMAN. All in favor?
ALL MEMBERS. Aye
MR. CHAIRMAN. Have a lovely evening.
MRS. RERISI. 'Thank you.
(All talking at one time)
9:43 P.M Mr. CHAIRMAN. - ----Frank R. Zaleski, whom I've known
for years. How are you Frank?
BOARD CLERK. Frank 'Zaleski.
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Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. CHAIRMAN. Appc�.d No. 4229. This is a request for a ZBA
review and determination confirming and recognizing this vacant lot
as exists with nonconforming area width, depth, Article XXIV,
Section 100-244 of the Zoning Code, location of the property, Lot #11
on 1965 Filed Map of Deep .Hole Creek Estates, a/k/a 1100 Theresa
Drive, Mattituck, County Parcel ID 1000-115-13-,
(Mr. Chairman a-ad BOARD CLERK discussing)
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, Map drawn May 2, 1985, Roderick Van Tuyl
P.C. , lot of 100 x 18G variable and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area, assuming
this is the piece, one of the pieces in back of his house. Is that
correct? OK, you're on Mrs. Moore.
PAT MOORE: OK. First, I''d like to say hello to everyone. This is my
first, cliance to be before a board after being the Public Sector---.
Here I am. Real. life.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Mr. Doyen wanted to know what you meant by that?
Don't you remember the hard time we used to give this nice lady?
MEMBER DOYEN. Ycali, I know, that's what I said.
PAT MOORE. That's right acid I missed you so much.
MR. CHAIRMAN. It's funny, we don't miss him.
PAT MOORE. Yca.li, but it was nothing compared to sitting on that
side of the room. OK. As the papers described we are under contract
right now and I have a. copy of the first and last page of the
contract, irrelevant portions. Mr. Zaleski, Mr. & Mrs. Zaleski are
selling to a Varity, Scott `and Patty Varity. The property, the lot,
there is a sales price of $45,000 and that contract was made subject
Page 82
Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Buar.rd of Appeals
to confirmation that this is a buildable lot. When we did a single
and separate search it appeared that there were common, points of
common ownership, no fault of the Zaleskis, it was inadvertent once
and I thing the affidavit states very clearly that once when the
property a Mr. Zaleski was divorced the divorce attorney conveyed
the property with both parcels on one conveyance and then again
back when Mr. Zalcksi married the second wife she passed away and
by operation of law the points were in 1984 and then in 1990 when
Edna Zaleski died the property by was of E::ecutor's Deed ended with
Mr. Zaleski. Those two points created the question that the buyers
wanted some insurance that they were buying this buildable lot. When
you look at, if you've gone to take a look at the property many of
you, many - of the board members are already familiar with the
property YOU can see that it is back-to-back to the parcel which is
in fact that the Zalukis are living in that, that has a house on it
is a. double size parcel, or almost double what this lot is and this
lot 11 will call it the subject parcel actually backs up to about
half of the Zaleski parcel. In addition, the property has been
traaintained with a fence. The properties have both been maintained
with beautiful landscape.. All of the landscaping has been kept very
nicely. However, they've always been intended to be remained
separate. Mr. Zaleski, all along through the conveyance and this
property dates back to Mr. Zaleski's father that the same first name
but different middle initial from 1943. So, since 43 this property
has been in the family. Both properties where his wife and he lived
as well as this lot. What else do we have? That is, that that's
Page 83
Regular Meeting of April G, 1994.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
essentially the point. I want to raise. The rest of the documentation
pretty much clarifies what I said a. far as the chain of title and the
difficulty in cori1morr owrrcrslrip. My understanding is that the board
has rec:ogrrized the subdivisions in the past. This particular map
comes from July 7, 1966 subdivision which is known as the Map of
Deep Hole Creep Estates. The date files up to subdivision map and it
was created by the Plaiirihig Board in 65. If you have any questions
Mr. & Mrs. Zaleski are here and I have a copy of the front and back
page of the contract for your records to show that the property is
under contract and would be significant hardship if the property was
not recognized.
MR. CHAIRMAN. Thank you. I don't have any specific questions. I
am perfectly cognizance of the entire subdivision of that era so on
and so forth. I'll disk anybody else if they have any questions of
Mrs. Moore?
MEMBER VILLA. Questioir, that would, that subdivision was actually
incorporated a piece of it as an out parcel?
PAT MOORE. Well, what happened was on the, the whole area was
owned, all of that area. was owned by Mr. Zaleski's father. He first
subdivided prior to the Planning Board being in creation. He created
the parcels which liis 11OLISCI sits on, so that was their first parcel
then, the, the, Mr. Zaleski's father then went to the Planning Board
and subdivided this particular lot as part of the subdivision
approved of in 65. So they come from two separate developments.
MEMBER VILLA: One, oiie predates in 43 to 65, 1 was just curious as
how it became part of a filed map.
Page 84
Regular Meeting of April G, 1994
Southold Town Board of Appeals
PAT MOORE: Right, right.
MEMBER VILLA: OK.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Jim?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No. I have no problem at all.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeali, who wants to make a motion.
MEMBER WILTON: 1111 make the motion.
MEMBER DINIZ10: I'll second it.
MR. CHAIRMAN : All in favor?
ALL MEMBERS: Aye.
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
L Ii DATE � ,`��Q y HOUR
LF
Town Clexk, own o- Southold