HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/30/1991 HEARING � J
PANITSwRIPT OF. HEARINGS
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
TUESDAY, APRIL 30, 1991
Board Members Present: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer
Members: Grigonis, Dinizio and Villa
Members Absent: Doyen (Due to Serious Illness)
Linda Kowalski, Z.B.A. Secretary and approximatelye30
persons in the audience.
Appl. No. 4015
Applicant(s.) : Melvin and Mollie Kurs
Location of Property: 360 Miami Ave, Peconic, NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-67-6-16
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7: 33 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by
Roderick Van Tuyl P.C. on January 29, 1981 indicating a two
story frame house on a lot of approximately 48 feet 4 inches
by 140 feet 4 inches and I have somewhat centrally located a
little more toward the easterly side of the property and I
have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Are the Kurs here? How
do you do sir? Could I ask you to use the mike if you
wouldn't mind.
MR KURS: May I give you a couple of pictures?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Surely.
MR KURS: These are of the interior, that' s the entire total
floor. Now the westerly side of the house is up against a
private dirt road which Ray Jacobs of the transportation
department ascertained, I don' t know if he sent over a fax
today, he- said he would.
.CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes I have it, thank you.
MR KURS: That it is not a Town road and the Assessor' s
Office said that they would be sending you a communication to
the fact that it' s not on the tax rolls and they said that
you should be getting that in another two or three days and I
understand that you would reserve decision on our application
for the variance pending that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure. No problem sir.
Page. 2 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Melvin and Mollie. Kurs
Southold Z.B.A.
MR KURS: Alright. It' s just, we' re new to the area here.
This is our second year, we love it here, we find the house
is a little small. We have three children, they and their
spouses and the seven grandchildren fill up that downstairs,
we are really, we are appealing for the variance.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRING_ ER: Mr Kurs before you sit down what is the
actual side yard on that side, I can't read it off the
survey, is it 16 feet 2 inches?
MR KURS: Yes it is.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And you are looking to build 14 feet?
MR KURS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, so you are looking for a 2 foot
side yard?
MR KURS: That' s right. That is up against that wooded area,
it doesn' t have ingress, it. doesn't have egress and it' s, we
feel it wouldn' t be inconveniencing anyone.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I just want to tell you, this Board has
never granted a 2 foot side yard.
MR KURS: I was aware of that,. really, but that patch of
woods will never be anything other than a patch of woods.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Did you ever attempt to acquire any of
that property from the Town or who?
MR KURS: No we haven' t.
CHAIRMAN. GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR KURS: We, in time, ,I mean we are new to the area and we
would love to look into it and see about doing that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any particular reason why you
chose to put this addition on the side yard rather than the
rear yard or whatever?
MR KURS: Well the house is one long house now. It' s small
but it' s long and if we put it in the back two things, the
kitchen area is in the way, there' s a kitchen and bathroom
against that back wall and it would greatly add to the
expense in order to do that and also it would give us a very
elongated house. -
-age 3 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Melvin and Mollie Kurs
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. I thank you sir. We' ll see if
any other questions develop.
MR KURS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You're welcome. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of this application? Is.
there anybody who would like to speak against the
application? Is there any questions from Board Members?
Bob.
MEMBER VILLA: Who owns the right of way next to it?
Soundview. Ave.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I think Mr. Kurs has mentioned and.
MEMBER VILLA: It' s not on the tax roll.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. It' s probably unknown owner.
Probably unknown owner. Because it is shown as a paper
street.
MEMBER VILLA: Because I know in many cases .where it' s an
unopened street and it' s not necessary you can seek
abandonment of it and usually the property owners on both
sides of the land end up dividing that piece of property.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR KURS: If that works out that would be fine, but again we
wouldn' t be encroaching on anybody to do what we want to do
now and seek to do that in the future.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright we thank you again. Hearing no
further questions I make a motion closing the hearing
reserving decision until we receive the correspondence.
All in Favor- AYE.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much for coming in.
MR KURS: Thank you so much.
Page 4 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Jessica W. Barnard
Southold Z.B.A.
Appl No. 4014
Applicant(s) : Jessica W. Barnard
Location of Property: 4240 Paradise Point Road, Southold NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-81-3=7
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7 : 40 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey indicating
a parcel that fronts on Little Peconic Bay and has a
substantial amount of road frontage on Robinson Road. The
applicant wishes to place a garage of approximately 24 by 36
approximately 100 feet from Robinson Road and approximately
80 feet from the southwesterly property line and I have a
copy of the survey indicating this and surrounding properties
in the area. Mr. Boyd, would you like to be heard?
MR BOYD: Good evening Mr. Chairman and Members of the Board.
Edward Boyd, Southold NY for the applicant. I believe this
application breaks down into two separate parts. The first
part has to do with the placement of the structure itself.
This is one of those properties that has no rear yard as the
statute would normally set it forth, because the rear yard is
the area between the house and Peconic Bay and is absolutely
no space to build a garage or any thing else ' in that portion
of the premises. So we are coming before you asking for
permission to construct in the front yard of this particular
house between the house and the road, Robinson Road which is
an extension, a private extension of Paradise Point Road.
The secondpart of the application will deal with the height
of the structure. Mrs. Barnard, the owner' of the premises is
going to construct a garage, it is of a modular type and the
plans call for a building that is approximately 21 feet along
the ridge line and some 23 feet to the top of the cupola and
this is higher than 18 feet that is permitted under the
Southold Town code. So we are coming to also ask for
permission to go a little bit higher then is strictly allowed
by the l code.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Where is, what is the upstairs. of the
garage going to be used for?
MR BOYD: If you would permit me, I.'m going to allow Mr.
Barnard, the applicants husband to speak to this, because
he' s the person who intends to use the upstairs. and he could
answer better then I can.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. Boyd.
MR BOYD: Douglass Barnard.
Page 5 - Apri1. 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Jessica W. Barnard
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do sir?
MR BARNARD: Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I intend to
use it as an office and sort of a hideaway. . I retired last
year and I have found that my wife and I have been residents
out here for 24 years and we've been married for over 30. In
retirement I 've got to get out of her hair and she out of
mine and I need sort of a place to go, if you will, and I'm
doing this back, in the west end, I 've rented a little office
over a hardware store and I spend a good part of my day
there. In the summer months I want to duplicate that same
opportunity if I can and the Yankee Barn Company of Eastern
New Hampshire puts up these shed carriage houses, if you
will, that it' s actually designed to be a studio apartment
upstairs over the garage. My intent would be to use it as an
office pure and simply.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I thank you for your candor in this.
My question is what type of office? What would you be doing
up there? Let me just give you an example and I do this
.occasionally and I apologize for answering the question,
asking a rhetorical question and answering it before. But
maybe it may help you. We have told people. that accessory
structures in the Town of Southold can be used for such
things as the storage of automobiles, for changing of oil in
you own automobile, and so on and so forth. If you don' t
choose to do that in this particular case, you choose to use
it for whatever private reason you want to use it for just
tell us what the private reason is.
MR BARNARD: Yeah, well I 'm still, I 've been an oil tanker
for all my life and I'm still on an consultancy with my
company and I have a fax machine and a phone line to that
office. I do my own typing and what not, it' s a one man
show, I don' t have a secretary or anybody assisting me. And
also doing a little bit of trading in the market place, if
you will, just to keep my hand in. So that' s the extent of
it. I usually spend the morning, sometimes early afternoon,
but then I 'm out of there..
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Assuming you had a room in your house
and you chose not to use this, and you chose to put the fax
machine and the telephone in the room in your house, you
would be in effect doing the same exact thing in the room in
your house.
MR BARNARD: It doesn' t work. I 've tried it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. I don't mean, I know it doesn't
work but I -mean that you would be doing exactly the same
Page 6 - April 30, 19-91
Public Hearing - Jessica W. Barnard
Southold. Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: thing is that correct?
MR BARNARD: Oh yeah sure. I just wanted a place that I ' ll
see her after lunch or what have you and I leave and this
strikes me as being an ideal attainment of that object, if
you will, I have an office over the garage, plus I do want
the garage, the 24 years we've been there we get sap on the
cars and I should have built the garage years ago, so this
seems to be a good common purpose if you will.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, the only other question I have is
what kind of utilities would be included other then electric
in this building?
MR BARNARD: Water for a bathroom.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Upstairs or downstairs?
MR BARNARD: Up.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. What about heat?
MR BARNARD: Yeah I think I would correct a mistake made in
the original structure which is a summer cottage, we do have
baseboard heating in the house but we' re, to try to stay
there in the winter time is impossible you're heating the
bay, so I think the way Eastern constructs these modular
homes they have a R-30 5 or 6 factor in the insulation, so
that would go a long way to assisting and just baseboard.
heating could take the chill off . I wouldn' t have the same
problem, but yes I would want heating in it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Electric or hot water?
MR BARNARD: I 'm not sure yet, I haven' t discussed with them
in detail which they recommend. Whatever they would
recommend I think I 'd go for.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just let. me give you the reason why I 'm
asking you or grilling you in a nice way concerning these
questions. Assuming you were to sell the house and the barn
was entirely set up as an apartment., it could be utilized.
that way assuming we granted it and that.' s what concerns me,
because what you are actually doing is building a second
structure on the same premises or asking us to approve one
and that' s the issue that I've, it' s a border line issue and
that' s what we are trying. . .
MR BARNARD: I would tell you this, we have already set up a.
will structure where my son and daughter are going to inherit
Page 7 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Jessica W. Barnard
Southold Z.B.A.
MR BARNARD, cont'd: the house after we go on, so we intend.
to keep it off the market, if you will, and in the family
because the kids have all grown up there and I don' t want to
see it leave the family.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I see. Okay. Well I thank you very
much, before you sit down, I just want to ask my fellow Board
members if. they have any questions. Jimmy, Bob, Bob.
MR VILLA: Well I have the same concerns you do that it would
end up being a second dwelling. If you are looking at it 24
by 36 is 864 square feet which is more than the minimum size
of a house in the Town.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well it' s times two Bob.
MR BARNARD: Well I would point out another thing is, a
garage with a workshop area on the side and that takes up
quite .a bit of that square footage and it' s built in a, what
do you call it when the back slopes off?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Saltbox.
MR BARNARD: Saltbox design and that again negates from some
of the room upstairs..
MR BOYD: Do you want to show them a picture?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, I have one in the file. Yes, it' s
very tastefully done, there' s no question about it.. We did
grant one similar to this only .it' s a gambrel in, on Jackson
Street in New Suffolk and a very interesting situation
because again we have the long lot that leads to the bay,
this of course is much more visible because it' s closer to
the road. However, there was no utilization of the upstairs.
We thank you very much sir for coming in. We' ll see what
else develops, thank you Mr. Boyd it was nice to see you
again. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in
favor of this application? Is there anybody who would like
to speak against the application? Hearing no further
questions, I make' a motion closing the hearing and rendering
decision later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Page 8 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
Appl. No. 3988
`Applicant(s) : Antonio Vangi
Location of Property: 645 Glen Court, Cutchogue, NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-83-1-7
The Chairman reopened the hearing at 7:47 pm.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The next appeal is an appeal that we
had opened two meetings ago. We were waiting fo-r a survey
and we see the survey is in the file, we' ll ask Mr.
Scaramucci if there' s any thing he would like to add to it.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Yes. The survey that you have indicates a
proposed addition of 28 foot in length, 12 foot in width. My
application, it showed a 31 ,foot long extension. I told the
surveyor about that and he hasn' t gotten me a revised 31
foot.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are actually looking for it for the
full width of the house, is that correct?
MR SCARAMUCCI : The depth of the house, yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR SCAR.AMUCCI: And if you have any questions I have nothing
else to add.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That 5. 8 feet is what, is that the
closest point it will be to the westerly property line?
MR SCARAMUCCI : Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: ' Okay. And the 17 feet is to the house?
MR SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR SCARAMUCCI : That' s the existing setback now, 17 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: If we are at the actual corner of the
house as we stand in front on the left hand side, or the
westerly side, the encroachment in the side yard could be
even greater than 5 . 8 feet because of the diagonal of the
property line, is that not correct? I mean we could in effect
it could be 5. 2 feet or whatever it' s going to be right?
MR SCARAMUCCI: Excuse me. I asked the surveyor to work it
out at the closest possible point.
A ,
Page 9 - April 30, 1991'
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. But my point is, if you go
another 3 feet toward the front of the house.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Or if you had brought the front of it out,
yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: In other words, you were going to hang
the other 3 feet o€€ the back of the house.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, okay, so this is where we are, we
are cut and dry with this right now except for the depth_
going 3 feet more.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Right, our encroachment on this side yard is .
at the maximum, you must have got the wrong information from
me for some reason or another but the proposed addition was.
supposed 'to be 12 'by 31 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, okay, but the 31 feet will be
protruding.. . . .
MR SCARAMUCCI.: To the north.
'CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: To the north, okay.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, thank you.
MR SCARAMUCCI : Your welcome.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you have any questions of Mr.
Scaramucci before this?
MEMBER VILLA: I had a. question, it came up at the first
hearing, that the framed shed that exists, on that back corner
on the bluff, that had been down at the bottom of the bluff
and the contractors raised it up when they did the
bulkheading?
MR SCARAMUCCI: I 'm not sure how -far down the bluff it was.
But I know it was below the elevation of the back yard now.
It looks to from looking over the, there' s a new bulkhead
in the back now so I can't tell you exactly what the backyard
looked like before, but it looks to me there have been some .
kind of a garden or a work area part of the way down the
bluff in the past. You can see some garden planter type
railroad tie terraces., so I think it must have been down
Page 10 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SCARAMUCCI, cont'd: there, and it' s like 12 foot lower
than the backyard -now. But I don' t know how the slope was in
the original backyard, you know, if it was gradual or if it
was very steep or what. You can tell it was lifted by a
crane because there is cables still around it and it' s all
crushed in on the sides.
MEMBER VILLA: I just wondered because they said, you know,
he wants to use it for storage, the garage for storage of
lawn mowers and that and I wondered where he stored it
before, his lawn mower if that was down below the base of the
cliff, over the bluff, he couldn't have used it fora lawn
mower.
MR SCARAMUCCI : I know, again. I said I don't know how steep
that bluff was before.
MEMBER VILI.,A: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Your welcome.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Excuse me. Could I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Could you give me a measurement then from
the top of the bluff to where the proposed back of the
building will be?
MR SCARAMUCCI: It' s exactly as it shows on the drawing.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I thought you were going to move 3 feet
back.
MEMBER VILLA: Well it' s still the line of the house.
MR SCARAMUCCI: 3 feet would bring it in line with the house.
Whatever that, I think that' s, it' s not on here, I think it' s
55 feet. . Measuring from the retaining wall, the new
retaining wall now to the back of the existing house and I
don' t think changes. I think that' s pretty parallel.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Could you get that for me?
MR SCARAMUCCI: Sure.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Thank you.
Page 11 - April 30 ,. 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Thank you.
MR SCARAMUCCI: Excuse me, do you want that done by the
surveyor, or can I tape it off for you?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You can tape it off.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You can tape it off.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure, that' s not necessary. Okay, is
there anybody else who would like to speak in favor- of this
application? Ms. Ongioni, you'd like to speak against?
MS ONGIONI: Yes. I have a letter which I would like to
submit to the Board, I reviewed the minutes of the last
hearing and.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I know you don't agree with me.
MS ONGIONI : You are right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Why don' t you agree with me.
MS ONGIONI: Well which portion? Which portion are you
referring to Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The portion that states that people who
live on the water do have a problem with accessory
structures.
MS ONGIONI: Well I made my position clear at the last
hearing and that is that this is a self-imposed hardship.
This was a structure that was constructed a number of years
ago, it had a garage in the original building. The owners.
decided to convert that garage which still has garage doors
showing on the exterior of the building, they decided to
convert that to living space, they now want to add an
addition to the building to create a garage, which doesn't
comply with the current zoning requirements. That is a self .
imposed hardship and I think the law requires that .if the
hardship is self-imposed that a variance be denied. Whether
or not there .is not issue of an accessory building right now,
or a detached building as you suggested at the last hearing.
You have before you now an application for an addition to the
existing structure. The purpose for this addition has been
created because in the original structure the garage that
existed was converted into other space and I think that
precludes this Board from granting a variance and I've stated
that in the memo that was submitted and I 've reiterated it in
the letter that I've just submitted to you.
Page 12 - April 30 , 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I thank you for answering that, my only
questions is, the question I made if I can recollect it was,
that if the Board were to deny a person the right to house
his or her car, then they do have the right to come back with
an application as any person has the right to come back with
an application for an accessory structure. •
MS ONGIONI : That' s correct.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The problem that we have is it blocks
people waterview which we cannot prevent in any way, matter
or form and that might be another avenue that the applicant
might have.
MS ONGIONI : But I, well that isn' t before the Board at this
time.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand that, that was just a
statement I made. Go ahead.
MS ONGIONI: And if that application were made to the Board,
well then the Board would be in a position of considering all
the factors weighing into a decision and it would seem to me
that an accessory building would be too close to the bluff.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only reason why. .
MS ONGIONI : It probably wouldn' t be permitted because it
would be too close to the bluff.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only reason why I raised that issue.
is because this building could be surgically detached from
this dwelling as it is in two houses down from this one. And
that' s the reason why I raised that issue, but go ahead.
MS ONGIONI : I think that would be something to be taken up
in a separate application.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS ONGIONI: Okay, and to anticipate that that.' s going to be.
the next step is not really the. . .
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh no, I wasn' t anticipating it, but I
thank you for your opinion.'
MS ONGIONI: Now I have a question about the survey that was
just discussed by the agent for the owner, he states that the
setback is 5. 8 feet. My calculation shows 5 feet.
Page 13 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS ONGIONI: I don' t, I 'd like some explanation as to the
discrepancy and let me explain how I .arrived at 5 feet. The
survey shows that the distance between the current building
line and the property line is 17 feet and the proposed
addition is 12. My math Comes up with 5 feet. How do we get
5 .8? I have that. I have this. I don' t understand the
calculation.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could you do me a favor though, could.
you call the surveyor and then get back to us?
MS ONGIONI : Do you see the same discrepancy?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well I do except. that I don' t know if
it' s, if the 5 . 8 feet is on a straight line or if it' s on a
curved line and that' s basically the reason why you could end
up like that.
MS ONGIONI: And the same would apply to the back to the
northerly line. It shows that the setback is 11 feet and my
calculation was 10.8.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. But .will you, call the survey and
gives us, if that what he' s referring to, I 'm not going to
question. . . .
MS ONGIONI: If you would like me to I certainly would.
CHAIRMAN -GOEHRINGER: Yeah, you have the question and I can't
answer that question to be honest with you, because we are
not surveyors. I'm not, that' s not a derogatory statement.
MS. ONGIONI : No, I understand that. I think. that really sums. .
up what my position is regarding the law on the matter, I
think however my client either Dr. Yannos or Mrs. Yannos
would like to say a few words to the Board.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER.: As long as what is said is not
counter productive, okay, we were getting into personalities.
MS ONGIONI : I don't believe it' s going to, that that' s going
to happen, Dr. Yannos, would you' like to say a few words?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do Dr. very nice to meet
you.
DR YANNOS: Mr. Vangi built a big house for a He
built a garage but he decided to use it as a , you
J
Page 14 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
DR YANNOS, cont' d: gentlemen can solve this problem right of
way by denying the variance. to build a new garage and. request
to him to use the old garage. Mr. Vangi, a few years ago he
built a shed, next he tried to build the shed on my bluff
because he like Mr. Scaramucci like two. to the
left, west and I protest it and they decided to build it at
the present space. That obstructs on my view on the
right side of the Sound. The surveyors who came and surveyed
my property, ,they put sticks but Mr. Vangi threw them away
and they told me that he put the well too close to my
property. I hope- that you decide to, you come to a just
decision and make it right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir, pleasure speaking.
MRS YANNOS: I don' t want to take too much of your time, but
my children instructed me to tell you these gentlemen,. as you
well know zoning laws are made for a purpose, to maintain the
aesthetic quality of a community and. to secure the safety of
its residents. The legal aspects of the this case indicates
that a total of 35 feet must exist on both sides of a house
in this area. If you grant this variance, the measurements
will be drastically reduced, thus, degrading the character of
the neighborhood. Gentlemen, nobody wants that garage to be
built there, it' s the only open space left that overlooks the
Sound. Mr. Vangi has inflicted his own hardship and the -law
says as Mrs. Ongioni has pointed out, he cannot even apply
for a variance. In making your decision you must also take
into account the series of violation notices this gentleman
has had. But there is more at stake then measurements.
There are unwritten laws that have been violated. Laws
dealing with peaceful coexistence, consideration and.
integrity. We just finished fighting a war defending them,
for god sakes. Furthermore., the demographics indicate. that
Long Island population is shifting toward this area. Unless
you take stringent measures concerning the zoning laws you
will be creating a serious problem. The North Fork is the
last remaining outpost of natural beauty in the entire New
York, Metropolitan. area. We have to be careful to preserve
the laws and rules that can protect this quality of life on
Long Island. If anyone for his own whim or ego can be
allowed to violate these principals then there will be
nothing to stop this little incident from multiplying a
thousand times and transforming the North Fork into another
citified congested area. So in making your decision, please
consider also the moral and environmental aspects of this
case as well as the legal. ones.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mrs. Yannos. Is there
anybody else who would like to speak against this
J ,
Page. 15 - April 30 , 1991
Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: application? Seeing. 'o hands I' ll make a
motion recessing the hearing with- no more oral testimony
until. Ms Ongioni gets back to us. after her contact with the
surveyor and we will then close the hearing at our special
meeting in approximately two weeks. Is that alright with
everybody? Is that alright with you Mr. Scaramucci?
MR SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further questions. I' ll offer
that as a motion gentlemen.
All in Favor - AYE.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much for coming in.
Thank you for contacting and we' ll get back. to you.
Appl. No. 4020
Applicant(s) ; Keith Harris
Location of Property: 265 Freeman Road, Mattituck, NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-139-3-37
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:00 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by
Roderick Van Tuyl and Son on. June 15, 1971. Indicating a one
story frame dwelling approximately 40 feet from Freeman Road.
The nature of this application is again a setback. An
addition to said structure on 'the. westerly side as closest
point 6 feet to the north and 8 feet toward Freeman. Road and
I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this
and surrounding properties in the area. Keith would you like
to be heard?
MR HARRIS: I would just like to say that I would like to )
know if we have to go back and change the plans, that the
reason I'm going as close as I can to the line, the house was
put in the wrong place to begin with by the builder and
that' s my problem, but I would like to put a mudroom, I call
a mudroom, a washing room inside and that way I have to move
the whole garage section over a little ways so I can get the
car inside.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: what is the approximate size. of the
garage you are proposing?,
MR HARRIS: I believe it was 24 wide and 2.5.6 deep. I 'm
offsetting it towards the back and I wanted to go back
further, but the roof line, I wanted to stay with the same
Rage 16 - April 30; 1991
Public Hearing - Keith Harris
Southold Z.B.A.
MR HARRIS, cont'd: roof line and I have a pool and decks in
the back and I would have to move everything in the back in
order to do that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, in situations of this. nature we
usually if we do allow a side yard reduction of this nature
there would be a restriction, there would be no further side
reduction on the opposite side so as. you could gain access to
your rear yard.
MR HARRIS: I have, I believe it' s either 16 or 17 feet on
the other side.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I just wanted you to be aware of that..
The height of the garage is going to be one story?
MR HARRIS: Yes. It' s not going to be quite to the main
ridge.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It would be dropped a little bit?
MR HARRIS: Just a little lower then. that..
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Have you got a guesstimate on what
height that would be? Would it be 12 feet approximately?
MR HARRIS: I think it was 16 from the border up.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay from the, lowest, from the ground?
MR HARRIS: Right, because the way I would like to set it up,
I want to go 18 inches from where the siding is now down
because that' s where the property and I' ll start
the garage floor from that. and that can offset 2
1/2 feet to. the back.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Would you just check that for us, so
that we know exactly what the height is when we get to a
decision and give us a call. It will be two weeks before or
at least ten .days. before we address it sir.
MR HARRIS: Okay, so I just call here.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Call Linda' if you wouldn't mind. Thank
you very much. You guys have any specific questions on this?
No, okay. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in
favor, anybody against. Hearing no further. questions I make
a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Page 17 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Charles Krepp
Southold Z.B.A.
Appl. No. 4019
Applicant(s) : Charles Krepp .
Location of Property: 1235 Island View Lane, Greenport NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-57-2-18
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8: 05 pm and read. the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey with' the
cont'd: surveyor' s name not on it. Indicating a kind of a
dog leg lot with a one story frame dwelling placed, almost
equally distant between the retaining wall and the front
property line. The nature of this application is a 12 by 25
foot deck, which is presently proposed off the rear of the
dwelling, more toward the northerly portion of the dwelling
and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who
would like to be heard? Is there somebody here representing
the Krepps? How do you do? Could you state your name for
the record please?
MR TORKELSON: My name is Torr Torkelson, President of
Torkelson Builders..
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do?
MR TORKELSON: I had reconstructed the house before as to
code in Southold. The problem that the Krepps have with
their property is two-fold.. One is by leaving the marsh land
the way it was and bringing his bulkhead back, there' s two
neighbors, each one has built up the area in the two sides
which he hasn' t done to preserve the integrity of the area.
Which makes it difficult for him now to have an area to sit
in. Being that. the house is raised, we' re 10 feet from the
top of' the foundation to the mean high water which it
requires of But we' re sufficiently high enough
that' s inconvenient to, if you've seen the property the floor
is much harder then the grade so for them to use the backyard
with any kind of area for a barbecue or what have you, is
almost impossible, so we decided on coming back 12 feet
enough so they can have a picnic table and a barbecue
incorporated right on the deck. An area to sit out and
entertain. I really didn't see any other way that it could
possibly be done and the deck is still way above the. 8 foot
mark, it would be off the 10 feet again, above the high water
mark and it shouldn't effect the environment or the integrity
of the marsh land around that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, it' ll be coming out right from
the main story?
Page 18 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Charles Krepp
Southold Z.B.A.
MR TORKELSON: It will be coming out from the main story.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only thing I don' t have is the., and
I didn' t have my. tape with me when I was down there, was the
actual. distance from the retaining wall to the deck. It' s
not necessary for you to give it to us tonight, but could you
measure it for, us please. and give us a call..
MR TORKELSON: . Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I appreciate that and the deck will
remain open?
MR TORKELSON: The deck will
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There will be no roof on it?
MR TORKELSON: No roof on it, no..
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I thank you.
MR TORKELSON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to
be heard in behalf of this 'application or against? Seeing no
hands, I ' ll make a motion closing the hearing, reserving
decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No. : . 4016.
,_Applicant(q) : _. Julius and Katherine; Ragusin_
Location of Property: 215- Hummel Ave, Southold, NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-63-2-14
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:07 pm and read the'
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by
Anthony Lewandowski on September. -15, 1990 indicating the one
family frame home and the framed garage in the rear of the
property and the proposed addition off the back of the house
of approximately 16 x 20 and I have a copy of the Suffolk
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in
the area. Would you kindly state your name for the record.
and how do you do?
MS DOTY: How do you do, my name is Deborah Doty and I'm an
attorney in Cutchogue and, I represent the Ragusins. The
Ragusins are basically seeking two variances, one a coverage
Page 19 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Julius and Katherine Ragusin
Southold Z.B.A.
MS DOTY, cont'd: variance of about 6% from what exists now
and another one in our rear yard setback variance of
approximately 15 inches. Their lot is small, to say the
least; its only about 5400 square feet, the house is :about,
is less than 1000 square feet and they are seeking a small
addition to the back of the house to serve solely as a living
room. Their current living room faces Hummel. Ave, they look
out over the big red buildings of Southold Lumber and they
are seeking more space in which they can live. They, going
upstairs is not feasible for the Ragusins, they are in their
70.' s and they can' t climb stairs. With respect to the
magnitude of the variance, it' s not very large, it' s only
about 6%. And the rear yard is virtually insignificant, it' s
15 inches. It' s not going to change the character of the.
neighborhood, which is semi-residential, I guess you could
call it.. On one side of street being commercial, the other
being residential. There is no impact on the health or
safety or traffic and there is no other feasible alternative
for them to expand their living quarters, but an addition on.
the back of the house.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I thank you, let' s see if there is any
questions. Do any of the Board Members have any questions?
MEMBER DINI2IO: What is the entire lot coverage with the
addition?
MS DOTY: With the addition?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah.
MS DOTY: Approximately 31%. Right now it' s about 25. I
provided the Board with a fairly detailed map.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It' s probably one ok the best ones I've
ever seen.
MS DOTY: Oh, well thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I wanted to let you know.
MS DOTY- I hope the numbers are right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well I did say to Mr. Ragusin and I
know he is sitting there and he is a very nice man,, that the
maximum" we usually go is about 28%, so what you are actually
doing is, that. was on a 50 X 45 foot lot. What you are in
effect doing is asking us to go approximately another 3%..
MS DOTY: That' s correct, but the problem here is, it' s such
Page 20 - April 30 , 1991
Public Hearing - Julius and Katherine Ragusin
Southold Z.B.A.
MS DOTY, cont'd: a small lot that there is nothing they can
do. I mean they are 18. 6% just the house alone without the
garage. We would encourage the Board to grant both of the
pages. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who
would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there
anybody who would like to speak against the application?
Questions from Board. Members? No further questions.. I make
a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
We hope to have a decision for you in about ten days. Thank
you very much for coming in.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No. : 3998
Applicant(s) : Henry and Mary Raynor
Location of Property: Peconic Bay Blvd, Laurel, NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-126-4-1, 2, 5
The Chairman reopened the hearing at 8:15 pm.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: .•-On the Boards own motion, reopened at
the last regularly scheduled special meeting the purpose of
further information concerning this particular project and we
thank you Mr: Raynor for coming back down. We thank you for
. the maps, clearly delineating the. area that was in question
and if you have anything you would like to add to the record
I would be very happy to take it. If not, I ' ll ask the Board
if they have any questions.
MR RAYNOR: No Mr. Chairman I have other maps available if
the Board requests them.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Gentlemen? No. Hearing no
further questions, I make a motion closing the hearing
reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl.. No. : 4012
_Applicant.(s) : William and Viola Deluca.
Location of Property: Luthers Road, Mattituck, NY 11952
County Tax Map No. : 1000-99-2-18
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:16 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey from Roderick
Van Tuyl P.C. dated July 16, 1987 indicating a house lot as
Page 21 - April 30 , 1991 _
Public Hearing - William and Viola Deluca
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: it presently, actually as it is to be set-
off at 53,758 square feet and the lot to be set-off at 53,768
square feet and I have a copy of the Suffolk. County Tax. Map
indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is
there somebody who would like to be heard concerning this?
Mr. Raynor, how are you?
MR RAYNOR: Good evening, again. Mr. Chairman, Members of
the Board, my name' s Henry Raynor, I represent Mr. . and Mrs.
Deluca. The variance before you is to create two lots from
the existing parcels situated on the west side of Luther' s
(Breakwater) Road. As you are aware the parcels exist of
approximately two and a half acres, it' s bounded. on the south
by lands of Deluca and parcels are. approximately the size of
the lots that we are proposing to create. Bounded on the
west by the subdivision, Captain Kidd' s Estate on which the
lots are approximately a third of an acre in size. On the
north by property of Mattituck park district and on the east
by Luther' s (Breakwater) Road. Mt. and Mrs. Deluca occupy
the residence for over thirty years, the house which they are
living in was rented from Irving Kahn from 1956 to 1986 at
that time they were able to purchase the parcel. They then
proceed to rebuild the house and are living there on an semi-
permanent basis, weekends in the winter and full-time in the
summer. This parcel was originally deeded into Mr. Kahn,
dressing it up as two parcels which later became merged.
It' s the applicants desire in this case to construct a home
for their daughter Viola, so that she may eventually have a
year round residence for herself out here in Mattituck. This
is the only way their daughter can continue to live by her
parents * as they grow older. Both in a financial viewpoint,
they have the daughter and the caring that is necessary as
parents grow older. To leave the parcel unique, and that is .
the only parcel in the immediate neighbor of its size and
with division of the parcel it would still be within keeping
of the neighborhood character as well as the intent sphere in
the ordinance. We fully realize if should the Board grant
this request, the Southold Town Planning Board would still
have to grant a minor subdivision on this property. I would
be happy to answer questions the Board. may have on this.
application. I thank you for your consideration.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. I ' ll ask my fellow Board
Members if they have any particular questions concerning it.
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah. I have a question. You say it' s the
only lot in the area of that size. I 'm just looking at a tax
map and I , just going down .Naugles Road a little bit, I see
three or four lots that would also be subject to be divided
along a similar line, if you chose to go that way.
Page 22 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - William and Viola Deluca
Southold Z.B.A.
MR RAYNOR: ' In viewing all the structures to the west, as
well as to the south, it would be smaller parcels, this is by
far the largest.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is. correct. You said that Mr.
Kahn had owned this property and they had rented it from him.
-MR RAYNOR: They had rented the parcel for over thirty years
they had been farming and, .
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And finally in 86 when they
purchased. . .
MR RAYNOR: Finally in 86 they were able to purchase it and
that is when they rebuilt the home and settled down.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Interesting. I don' t have any
particular questions, Mr. Raynor. I am well aware of the
property. I ride by there every day. Of course I live in
the area and they have made the existing dwelling a very
beautiful structure, .a very beautiful building at this
particular point. And that's all I really can add to the
record at this point.
MR RAYNOR: Okay. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who
would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there
anybody who would like to speak against the application?
Questions? No further questions. I make a motion closing
the hearing reserving decision until later.
.All in Favor - AYE.
. Page 23 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing —Charles Bleifeld
Southold Z.B.,A.
Appl. No. : 4017
°Applicant(s) :- -Charles. Bleifeld -,.
Location of Property: 1115 Private Road, Southold. NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-90-4-19 & 20
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8: 23pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a survey by Peconic Surveyors, I
don' t particularly see the. date on. it. but I ' ll find. it, it' s
over here. April 4, as revised 1991 and I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Could. I ask you to state your name
for the record sir.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: Certainly, Robert F. Kosniakevicz. I'm
from Peter S. Law Office, here for the applicant.
Preliminary I 'd also like to note that should the Board have
any questions concerning the architectual design, why the
concept was chosen, we have the architect Bob. Long here as.
well today. And finally Dr. Bleife.ld, the applicant, one of
the applicants and one of the owners is also present to ask
questions, should you feel a desire to chose so. Also one
preliminary question, I have some. exhibits I'd like to
introduce to the Board and I would like to do that in my'
presentation unless the Board would like to- do so otherwise.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, that' s fine. We very .rar.ely ever
review anything unless it' s, you know, at this particular
time. We' ll review it later I 'm sure.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: Okay fine. The property itself is a unique
parcel, I heard the Board refer to another parcel. as. dog leg,
this is much more than a dog leg because of the property
being bisected by Orchard Lane, we have in essence a L shaped
or inverted L shaped or, a right angle which forms two front
yards on a parcel. In addition, the parcel is on. the south
or the east and the south side which is bordered by Cedar
Beach Harbor. The application or that has been an
application to D.E.C. as shown on. the survey before the Board
which shows the flag wet lands. There is a considerable
amount of flag lands and meadow land on the property. The
property is actually two tax map parcels that were purchased
on January 4, 1990 by the owners in fee from Mr. & Mrs.
Spitaliere and from Joseph Spitaliere. Incidentally Mrs.
Swimmer is one of the owners of the property to the west side
and-from what I understand has no opposition to the project.
Also with respect property, we note that is located in a R-40
zone, however because of its size, the fact it is only total
area of 30,561 square feet,. we actually fall within the
Page 24 - April 30, 19.91
Public Hearing - Charles Bleifeld
Southold Z.B.A.
MR KOSNIAKFi!CZ, cont'd: guidelines of 100-244 of the Town
code. We also would bring to the Boards attention that due
to the extensive amount of wet lands in this case, we have
calculated the actual area of upland of the wet lands to be
22,189 feet. The legal notice that is before the Board is a
little bit inaccurate in that based upon some further
consideration and believe me, this plan has been thought out
very thoroughly and in many different concepts have been
brought forth. We initially came in with a plan that. showed
a detached garage, a open pergola, which would have had a
pool and garage in side yards, attached garage in side yard.
That plan also called for a variance to the front yard of 20
feet which is still the same and a variance for side yards of
10 and 15 or a total of 25. The revised plan or the updated
survey, which Mr. Chairman you referr.,ed to, has been revised
and we've made a lot of cut backs and we feel we' re at the
limit of what we can do. The garage is now attached and
therefore we no longer require a variance .for that aspect.
The pergola has now been replaced by the residents, which
runs to the garage. The. bulk pool has been located to the
rear yard, likewise no variance is necessary. The variances
for the side yards have been cut back and are now 10 feet and
20 or a total side yard of 30. The side yard variance of 10
feet is in essence a variance seeking approximately 330. The
total side yard variance of 30, I calculated to be
approximately 160 of a variance. The front yard is, although
at the closest point will be 20 feet, the interesting point
that the owner wished me to bring out is that we initially
looked at many of the, at the property and prior to his
purchase D.E.C. had been already applied. to and at that point
and time had mandated a setback of 50 feet, based upon the
fact that he purchased both lots and. the new application they
pushed him back another 5 feet and as you can see. from the
plans, he' s now 55 feet from the flagged wet lands. The
proposed residence, because of its unusual configuration is,
well I 'm going to let the architect do that aspect if you do
want to get into that, be answered by Mr. Lund. Instead the
other arguments. The total square footage of the house,
incase the Board wants to know, is 4,367 feet. We arrived at
that as follows: the footprint for the house is 2,053 , the
garage is 490, the pool is 348 and the deck, which is located.
to the south of the residence is 1, 476. The building area
thus taking into consideration the wet lands is less than
200. We would respectfully ask the Board to approve the
application inasmuch as we feel that the unusual shape of the
property, coupled with the D.E.C. mandate and the Town
Trustee mandates as well as the L shaped front yard causes
a practical difficulty that is uniquely associated to the
property and not something that is personal to the owners in
this case. The, I don' t recall, I mean I do note that a
Page 25 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Charles Bleifeld
Southold Z.B.A.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ, cont'd: letter we make mention. of the fact
the Board of Trustees have been applied to. In fact we had
previously sent a letter and I would like to also make that
part of the evidence before the Board today, that we have
received Trustees or Board of Trustees approval for this
project.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I was just going to ask you for that
copy.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: We also have re-applied to the Board of
Trustees just for the sake of making sure that the new plan
as just recently revised is not going to run into any
problems with the Board of Trustees. I can' t see how it
would, in essence the size of the structure is less and we' re
still the same distance from the D.E.C. or from the wetlands
as flagged by the D.E.C. I 'd also asked that the Board. make
part of the record today, a D.E.C. approval dated February
20, 1991, which sets forth the conditions and also shows the
plan that was approved by D.E.C. and again for the record,
that plan shows all structures 55 feet from the west lands as
flagged. In addition, I'd like to make part of the record
today this Board' s action on the application of Joseph
Spitaliere, the appeal number for the moment eludes me, but
in that application Mr. Spitaliere had applied for a variance
to this very Board for a front yard setback of 30 feet in
lieu of 35 feet. I will point out to the Board in that
action that in paragraph number one on page one, the side
yards in that instance were 10, 15 feet. Apparently at the
time the application was made, the zoning requirements were
different from those now, but I point that out to show to the
Board that: the project is not in., or out of conformity with
the character of the neighborhood. We also would like to
draw to the Board' s attention. the fact that we have taken two
tax maps and created one, thus creating a benefit. for
society, health, etc. And that in lieu of two residential
applicants or two separate residences coming to this Board
perhaps you will only have one in such that 50o demand on
water, sewer, etc. I also have a sketch today from Bob Lund
which gives the birdseye view of the proposed. structure and
I 'd like to make that part of the record. Here' s the D.E.C.
I didn't recall if. you had that. Board of Trustee' s
approval, the letter we just drafted to the Board of Trustees
and the application of Joseph Spitaliere approving a 30 foot
front yard and also the reference there to the 15 and 10
feet for your viewing so you get an idea of what' s being
proposed, this can be for the missing Board Member. There is
one other point I know that, I believe the Board is aware of
it, but I just wanted to make it part of the record. Orchard
Lane is shown on the survey as 30 feet in width, in actuality
Page 26 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - April 30, 1991
Southold Z.B.A.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ, cont'd: there was a 280A access previously
filed by Mr. Spitaliere and part of that approval, the right
of way as it exists at the southernmost end or as it touches.
upon Lot 42 as shown on the Cedar- Beach Park map, it will be
only 8 feet in width. That application they also have a
copy, we ask that be made part of the hearing minutes and
exhibit today. We feel that' s important because in essence
what it does is the house will be at a greater distance from
the traveled roadway than what is actually shown on the
survey and I think aethetically it' s more pleasing . in. that it
will be further away and again I'd like to make that part of
the record. Thank you.
MEMBER VILLA: Can I ask a question on that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MEMBER VILLA: You say it' s only going to be 8 foot wide but
that is also going to be providing access to lot 43 is it
not?
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: That is correct.
MEMBER VILLA: So therefore, I mean you know, that' s going to
have to be provided, possibly widened at some time in the
future or become a wider thoroughfare than the private
driveway for this.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: Well as I was pointing out, it was part of
the prior application to the Board. At that time it may
become necessary to be widened, but. at this point based upon
the prior approval and the condition I think the 8 feet would
be sufficient.
MEMBER VILLA: Could I ask another question, if you know it.
Lots 43 and 44, do you know if they are in common ownership?
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: Could you refer to the Suffolk County Tax
Maps for me, because I don' t happen to have the Cedar Beach
Park.
MEMBER VILLA: It would appear to be lot 14.
MR SPITALIERE: Do you want me to answer that, I 'm the owner?
MEMBER.VILLA: 18.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: It would be lot 18 is owned by Camillus
Spitaliere.
Page 27 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Charles Bleifeld
Southold Z.B.A.
MEMBER VILLA: How about 14?
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: That' s by Jose.ph .Spitaliere.
MEMBER VILLA: So they are checkerboard.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: I believe I'm correct.
MR SPITALIERE: They're single and separate, yes..
MEMBER VILLA: Because I was wondering if they were in common
ownership, if we couldn't just pull Orchard Lane back to the
beginning of lots 43 and 42 and just end it there and abandon
that part of the road and you'd have it as part of your . lot?
MR SPITALIERE: If . I could make a suggestion on that, Dr.
Bleifeld, I believe is going to bring his. driveway in way up
north on the property line, so he actually won't be utilizing
the road to get to his property.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: It would be to the northeast.
MR SPITALIERE: Right, but he' s not going to really use that
last 80 feet of his road, if I understand it properly.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: That' s the wag .the plans indicate.
MR SPITALIERE: Well as far as I 'm concerned on my side, I
would be pretty much doing the same thing. For the
aesthetics of it, because of having a long driveway going in.
Whereas I don' t have to have access right to the end of the
existing road to turn in..
MR VILLA: But as long as lot 43 is in single ownership you
are going to have road frontage to it. If 43 and 44 were
combined, then you pull that road back and abandon part of
it, but as long as you have 43.
MR SPITALIERE: What I'm saying is I only need. 20 to 25 feet.
possibly of lot 43 for access. There' s 100 foot frontage on
the road.. We. would only need the last 20, 25 feet..
MEMBER VILLA: Well that you would have to see with the.
Planning Board. on this.
MR SPITALIERE: Well. I.'m just saying you know for my personal
use.
MEMBER VILLA: Okay, thank you.
Page 28 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Charles Bleifeld
Southold- Z.B.A.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: Does the Board have any other questions.?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yeah, I have one other question in
reference to the original decision of the 280A. The decision
that was rendered said that the width would be 12 or 1.4 feet
in width and you're referring to 8 feet.
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ: Well at the very end 'of the decision where
it refers to the roadway "Leading down to what would be
Suffolk County Tax Map .parce1. 1000-90-4-19, or I believe,
let' s see if I have these, lot 42 it also goes on to mention
that it would be reduced. to a variance of 8 feet. It goes on
further.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, down into that particular. Okay.
Thank you. Who else would, you have someone else that is
going to speak. You are going to have the. . . . . .
MR KOSNIAKEVICZ.: If you have any architectural questions as
to what' s proposed or the concept. The wing that runs up
along the easterly side, the L shaped or the long part of the
L, will in essence be one room and a series and we feel that
because of that in fact that needs access from one end to the
other we can' t reduce it in size and because of the wetlands
pushing us back and the front yard pushing us this way, if I
could with the, leaves very little area in which to construct
a house without coming into some type of variance.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I just would like to ask the architect
one question if you wouldn' t mind. Which is not necessarily
the nature of the front yard setback, but it could. be. The.
actual width of the overhang or the soffat area is.
approximately how much?
MR LUND: One the eastern wing?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well., an average around the house.
MR LUND: On the south side we have 4 feet for shade., but on
the areas under question, we' ll have about 6 inches on each
side for gutters.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That' s it?
MR LUND: That' s about it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Where is the water run off going to be
toward the water side? Will that be into any sort of storm.
drain?
Page 29 - April 30, 1991
Public. Hearing - Charles Bleifeld
Southold Z.B.A.
MR LUND: 'Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It will be.
MR LUND: In the dry well.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. And so the nature of the 20 foot,
setback is not taking into consideration. that 6 inches. Is
that correct? Well I notice you have 20 foot -6 inches on
there.
MR LUND.: The 20 foot setback is to. the foundation wall.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is to the foundation wall.
MR LUND: Right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I thank you very much. You are Mr.
Lund, is that correct?
MR LUND: Yes, that' s correct.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: - Thank you sir. Does anybody else have
any questions? Is there anybody else who would like to speak
in favor of this. application? Anybody like to speak against
the application? Yes sir. State your name for the record.
please.
MR MOSS: My name is Robert Moss, I live in Cedar Beach. I'm
neither in favor or opposed to this. Just. a statement. At.
the time Mr: Bie.ifeld pur.chased. as I under.stand. i.t, the .
Board of Trustees had outlined an envelope where the
structure would have to be within and the purchaser obviously
knew this at the time and I just want to make a comment that
I hope that' s being adhered to.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:: It' s an interesting point, normally
under 239.4 had there been a bulkhead there, we would have
addressed on this parcel, we would address the setback,, but
somewhere along the line when the new zoning code was put in
place, we noticed that there was overlapping jurisdiction
between the Town Trustees and ourselves and we then yielded.
to the Trustees in areas where there is no bulkhead.. So the
55 foot setback is a setback that the. Trustees are dealing
with and as for the front yard setback that is an area that
we are going to be dealing with and we: will go back and
re-inspect it based upon the revised maps, prior to making. a
decision. And we' ll take everything that we possibly can
into.
Page 30 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Charles Bleifeld
Southold Z.B-.A.
MR MOSS: That' s all I ask.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much for coming in sir.
MR KOSNIAKL&'VICZ: I missed the gentleman.' s name but just two
comments with respect to what he asked.. The original.
application to the Board of Trustees was far plan A, or the
original plan and as I pointed out it in fact came closer to
the one side yard and in all other respects, is the same. So -
the building envelope has been complied with. The other
point I also wanted to make which was apparently not
perfectly clear. When he originally contracted to buy the
property, the owners that . is, D.E.C. was only mandating a 50
foot setback, subsequent. there to and based upon. their
combination of two tax maps., D.E.C. pushed them. back to 55,
so they actually have come back from the wet lands a little
bit further. Okay.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank. you. Hearing no further comment,.
I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until
later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Page 31 - April 30 , 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
Appl. No. : 4022
,. .Applicant(s) : Cellular Telephone Company
Location of Property: 415 Elijah' s Lane, Mattituck, NY
County Tax Map No. : 1000-108-4-11. 3
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank. you very much for coming in, it' s
pleasure meeting you gentlemen. Are you going to leave?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are you going to sit here or are you
going to leave?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I 'm going to leave.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I just want to make a public statement that
I work for a company that perhaps could compete with you
gentlemen so I would like to beg off if you don' t mind. I 'm
going to leave the room.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a declaration and in the file,
also for Mr. Smith that I have a Metro One Telephone. Do you
have any objection to that, to my sitting on this hearing,
please voice your opinion at this point.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 9: 48 pm and. read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties and I have a
copy of a plan produced for Metro One indicating the one
story framed barn that presently exists and the concrete
building as it presently exists. and we will ask Mr. Smith if
he would like to continue.
MR SMITH: Thank you Mr. Chairman for the record my name is
Allen Smith, I appear as counsel to William D. Moore the
Attorney of record in this matter.. Mr. Moore has had the
good fortune of having the local Rotary Club sponsor his trip
to Europe and God bless him. He even took his wife. who is a
rotarian and their baby of less than six months I think or
SO. For the record this evening, I have with me to address
various aspects of this application, Christopher Resavy,
Glenn Witte both are engineers with Metro One and both of
which I have supplied the resumes for, to you. Mr. Ronald
Petersen is an engineer with AT&T and can and will as this
matter progresses address any radiological effect questions.
Mr. Peter Papay is a licensed engineer who deals with the
Page 32 - April 30•,, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont'd: issues of the pole, its ability to
withstand wind and the like. Mr. .John Nickles is a local
appraiser in this particular matter and I will introduce his
opinion letter in a moment., relative to the effect that the
proposed use on the neighborhood. And lastly Roger
Grutzmacher 'is the architect who will address those issues
attending to the visual aspects of- the proposed use. I will
admit readily how provincial I am relative to Metro One.
and/or Cellular Telephones. The first time that I became
aware of the importance of Cellular Telephone was about four
or five years ago. Some of you know I'm a member of the
Red Hook and. Ladder Company of Riverhead Fire
Department. As you may recall, all of us in the fire service
were called to a rather large brush fire during the tenure of
Chief Richard Gadzinski when the Pine. Barrens burned between
Eastport and Riverhead. It was at that particular time that
they called out our truck 629, which had a Metro One type
device in it, in .that all the trucks that were responding to
the area were unable to communicate, because everybody was.
stepping all over everybody and on both of the channels that
were available to us. You may know that the fire service
moved a comparable. unit to 62.9 on the west end of the fire
and in fact that particular fire in our locality was
coordinated through the use of the cellular telephones
,. because our ordinary radio communications were so messed up
they were ineffective. That experience in. talking to these
gentlemen and the equal at Metro had been duplicated for
instance in the Avianca crash. The plane took down all. the
standard land lines that were. available and in. fact at. the
varying units responded and they cluttered the airways yet
again, but for the fact that the citizens in that particular
area and the chiefs .in Nassau County generally have cellular,
telephones in their chief cars communications was handled in
that particular regard. Another particular example was the.
San Francisco earthquake that we all witnessed. during the
World Series. Again if there was not a cellular network to
coordinate the emergency response there would have been. no
response because of the severing of all cables. on the ground.
I have on occasion used car phone, as maybe some of the rest
of you have, calling fires. I recall. calling in a signal. 13
at the Walsh asphalt plant one day. The paint of all of this
is to say that although this technology is coming to Southold
it is not a new technology. It is very much a cart of the
utility system both of our area and San Francisco, Nassau
County and other places. I find that in the examination of
the fire safety manual for the , county of Nassau that most of
the police in Nassau county and the ambulance service in
Nassau County have cellular now. I know that the Wading
Department has cellular in every chief' s car. In fact as you.
may know the 911 system is integrated into the Metro service;
Page 33 - April 30, 1991
Public. Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold .Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont'd: such that as we .travel up and down the
road with our cellular telephone we do not have to know the
particular phone number for.' the Southold P.D. if you will or
this tower up, we would simply punch in 911 and we would end
up with Southold P.D. Of I suppose the last point in dealing
with where this technology is and how integrated it has
gotten into our society is to point' out how it has become
part of commerce and industry of our area. Of one of the
customers of Metro One is one of the off-shore boats. As you
may know he cannot use his ship to shore to radio for the
purposes. of commerce, because it violates the rules among
other things and if he did he would populate the airwaves to
the detriment of everyone else. This particular captain uses
about $500 a month in services from Metro One. Essentially
coming .off the towers in the south fork, so that he knows the
market, where he should bring his boat in with his catch,
when to bring it in, things of that particular nature. Which
he cannot do with the ordinary ship to shore radio. All that
being said, I have one tape to show you should you wish, and
I 've raised the one issue that brings these. people here as
exemplified. by the coverage issue. At the: moment if I. were
to get into my car this evening and see an accident on the
North Road and I dial in 911 the chances. are that I would not
get a local police station. I would bounce over to
Connecticut. There is a gap. in. service with reference. to the
Metro One system, this is within their franchise area and
that is why they are here and that is why they are building a
tower at the police station in Peconic and they propose to
build this tower in Mattituck. I have a tape, it' s not a
good tape, I can save it for the end, I can show it now.
What it shows on the tape, if you are in fact interested, is
a testimony of why a police chief in New Jersey, whose radio
tower was struck by lightning and he tells you as one:
municipal board to another how much more in fact that. he had
cellular capacity. He would have been out of service and out
of touch with his cars, but because he had cellular and the
redundancy that it provided to his vehicles that he was able
to function. The other one: that you see is the technology
that' s coming into the fire service where a particular town
in New Jersey is installing the Metro One service with fax
machines, such that as we get an alarm and. we respond on our
trucks that the fax, there will be pre-plans, say the old.
Perkins Motel in my community such that pre-plans will be fed
into the fax machine by the dispatcher and they would turn
out on the trucks as we responded to the alarm. Lastly, on
this particular tape, and again I' ll play it if you wish or
I ' ll hold it till the end, is the .testimonial by the people
in East Hampton, who are doing very much the same thing that
the Town of Southold was doing with Metro One at the police
station in terms, in Southampton they've already done it,
Page 34 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont,'d: where Metro One has in fact built a tower
and has brought the police communications up onto the tower.
I suppose the last thing that I would say in that particular
regard is not a. fire service thing. It relates to the, I
think 'it' s called A.L.S. System, that is now part of our
ambulance service and is becoming more a part of our
ambulance service, advanced life support system. As those
E.K.G. ' s and the other more sophisticated monitoring systems
come into the ambulances as our E.M.T. ' s and A.M.T. ' s respond.
from areas such as Southold and Riverhead. to Good Samaritan
Hospital, I think you understand that all of that telemetry
is not done on the radio wave it is. done over cellular, just
simply because of the capacity and-the refinements that
cellular technology affords as opposed to the standard
emergency treatments we simply operate. The issue. before you
this evening has been properly defined by the chairman and by
Mr. Moore and I 'm to deal in. this first instance with the
special exception nature of the application. Many of us know
Judge Stark, who' s probably one of the better or best judges
that we have in Suffolk County, and is someone that grew up
here in this particular community and as. Mr. Moore has.
provided to the chairman a particular: decision where Judge
Stark writes about the special nature of dealing with a
public utility structure and a zoning ordinance. He wrote,
public utility structures: serving the entire community have
historically been recognized as reasonable and proper uses in
all types of use districts, because of the technical and
engineering requirements particular to such structures in the
area serve. That' s the whole issue that' s before us on the
special, exception nature. I have for you, I will hand out
your decisions some years ago, with reference to the AT&T
towers in the community. As the Board Members will note, one
of the Board Members was in fact present during these
particular decisions, at the bottom of the first page that I
have handed up to you, Mr. Douglas recites, that we couldn' t
find any reason to attempt to obstruct you in the
communications here, we have very strict rulings in fact to
go by in the State of New York rulings on public service
utilities, etc. There were two hearings that particular
evening. On the last page that I have handed up to you, Mr.
Douglas immediately prior to that particular resolution.
Again I make a statement that we are controlled very strongly
by law and public utilities with that as our guidelines. I
will again make a motion, etc. So, although I am dealing
somewhat with a new technology in terms of the cellular,
aspects of what -is before the Board this evening, it is not
an a new issue to this particular Board. . There is a certain
logic that is inherent in dealing with utilities in. this
particular regard. as it relates to zoning. I suppose the
easiest example would be to deal with electric utilities and
1
Page 35 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont'd: if in fact height restrictions,
architecture review and things of that nature were to apply
in the strictest sense to electric utilities, in some of your
more restricted residential zonings, we could not supply
people with electric utilities, the. sewer, water, things of
that particular nature have this special kind of special
exception, if you will, such that the boards state, this
Board in particular have granted the right under the
ordinances to examine the particular application and make a
determination on the particular application whether or not
there is an adverse effect on the environment, neighborhood,
all the criteria that! s spelled out in your special exception
prevision. The last thing I would say with reference to the
public utility issue is this, that I have for you and I will
introduce later on if ' it' s of interest to you, some of more
precise definition of! the longitudes and latitudes that are
called out, in licensing the papers that you have been given
by Mr. Moore, but in; fact these people are compelled as a
matter of law to serve their franchise area. They and NYNEX
in this particular instance. There are two franchisees., if
you will, for the Town of Southold. If it were true that the
Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town. of Southold were. to deny
to NYNEX or to Metro One any right to engineer if you will,
these towers again they must do so considering the
neighborhoods, the effect of. the tower and all the rest of
that. You could as a' local zoning bo,ard. or a local zoning ,
ordnance frustrate the franchises that have been given by the
public service commission of the. State of New York. to this
entity and to NYNEX and by the. F®C.C. to these two entities
to serve this particular area and I suppose I don't have to
give you a citation necessarily but such a .result might. be.
contrary to either common sense or to the federal system
under which we work. IAll that being said I would introduce
the architect and I have asked him to please depict for you
the existing conditions and. as the site will appear with the
tower.
MR GRUTZMACHER: Good evening. My name is Roger Grutzmacher
for the record,. I 'm an architect, these drawing are prepared
under my supervision in my office. As part of the, I' ll keep
the presentation brief., I' ll. just go quickly to where we' re
locating the tower in a brink, show you some exhibits that
show existing and proposed conditions. Metro One primarily
needs two items in order to ,operate. One is a relatively
high spot in which to locate their antennas., in this case we
are .proposing a monopole tower, the other is an equipment
room, to house theirlequipment which is an. accessory
structure for that antenna. In this 'particular site we' re
locating both of those facilities, the tower and the building
to the rear of this one story framed building which is.
Page 36 - April 30, 1951
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A
ti
MR GRUTZMACHER, cont'd: located toward, if there is a front
yard, certainly towar& the front yard of what we' re
proposing. ' Access to our facility in the rear which is a
modification to an existing building, it is not a new
building, we' re merely going to give it a face lift and
recondition the interior to meet our purposes. The actual
building is shielded from the front by this existing frame
and access will be by a road toward the rear, we' ll also be
introducing two parking spaces back here.. We don't really
need a lot of parking because visits to the site are on a
nature of possibly two' times a month to check equipment. The
actual room itself is unmanned. I think. at this point I
would like to show what this existing structure looks like
currently and what. we propose to do to it. The building,
it' s about 720 square feet, it' s a block structure. It is
shielded by some natural vegetation. and landscaping.. The
building, structurally sound is a bit lacking ascetically
certainly, we do also have. to put a new roof on this.
structure. We are going to give it a total face lift and
I' ll show you what I mean by that. This is a rendering of
that same scene. Let me put them next to one another so you
can really see it. The, what we would do to just quickly go
through it, the building we know it' s structurally sound, we
would sound the block and make sure that .it' s cleaned up and
which then we could apply the new stucco finish which is
here. Colors, it' s very flexible, we would chose an earth
tone brown because it seems to fit in with the area a bit
more appropriately than some thing that might be a more in
the primary colors or what have you. As I said it' s an
existing building, we will not be extending it at all. We
are merely giving it a face lift. The building to operate it
_requires no sewage. There is no water to this site, the
utilities that we do bring into the site is. telephone and
power, electricity. That is all. And it is brought in
through ground lines, it would be buried, there are no
overhead lines here that we would be adding or bring into the
site. Let me show you now the mono-pole.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody in the audience that
wishes to see these., we could move the, what I ' ll ask you do
is just move the easel back. a little bit. Maybe you want to
change your set over to this side.
MR GRUTZMACHER: Okay, as I mentioned there is an existing,
the two existing structures. This is our equipment room
which we're are proposing the face lifting for. This is the
existing barn structure towards the front and this is the
proposed 100 foot mono-pole. I believe it' s actually 102
feet. Chris is that correct? Okay. Give me an idea, this
is pretty accurate because we've transposed it onto an actual
i
Page 37 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR GRUTZMACHER, cont'd: photograph of the site, we've
rendered on the new finish here and we've located the mono-
pole to scale. To give you an idea of scale, trees in the
background are in the ! ar.ea. of 45 to 50 feet in height and as
I said the mono-pole is about 102 feet in height. Both
structures are located to the rear, again, I ' ll give you some
dimensions on the mono-pole at the base it's about, and. Pete
I guess you could bail me out is this an eight foot base
mono-pole?
14R PAPAY: The actual base of the steel mono-pole itself
would be 37 inches in' diameter. But the concrete foundation
will be in the neighborhood of six to eight. feet.
MR GRUTZMACHER: The platform at the top is approximately,
it' s three sided, it' s a triangle, each side would be about
12 feet in width. The actual size of the antennas -of which
there will be nine mounted on the top about four feet in
height. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer
them.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: ! Do you have questions Bob? Do you. want
me to go, okay: There will be some lighting on top of this? .
MR GRUTZMACHER: That/ s, we could check into that.
METRO ONE: Do you want me to address- that now or?
MR SMITH: We'll get you up in a second I' ll answer it now
and then we' ll answer it again. The lighting is subject to .
an F.A.A. approval the consulting engineer, not this
particular gentlemen but he can testify to it. It says that
there shouldn' t, the striping and lighting aspects are. not
required but this gentlemen will address that in a moment..
Whatever the Board does as in the other applications that I
have in the east end,. I will produce for you and I would have
to in any event before any building permit would be: issued
the F.A.A. determinations relative to lighting and striping
if any. They don' t believe at this particular moment that it
would be required..
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Because of. height. Allen?
MR SMITH: Height is one of the considerations where they
actually file with the F.A.A. and. different places they don't
have to. For instance, the one that' s somewhat higher nearer
the Banks is not going to be particularly lighted
because they don't, it does not effect aviation.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. What is the width of the actual
i
Page 38 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: antenna on top of the mono-pole?
MR GRUTZMACHER: It' s approximately 12 to 14 inches in that
range.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And what is the length?
MR GRUTZMACHER: Four feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Four feet total?
MR GRUTZMACHER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Four feet in height?
MR GRUTZMACHER: In height.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay what is the width this way?
MR GRUTZMACHER: Well the whole triangle, the platform, there
are three of those antennas mounted on each triangular leg.
It' s about twelve feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are there steps leading to that antenna.
in anyway?
MR GRUTZMACHER: What' s usually located. on mono-poles are
they' re little struts that run up the pole. If. Pete, Mr.
Papay the structure engineer, he' s more familiar with the
actual tower design, but generally the workmen that come out
to maintain and actually install the antennas. have these legs
that they will put in as they go up. Some are located on,
but to- a certain height.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So no one will. climb.
MR GRUTZMACHER: That' s correct. And the compound we' re going
to secure as well with a fence around the entire perimeter.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Have any of these been constructed in
an area that we could visit within the next couple of weeks?
MR RESAVY: The closest mono-pole we currently have
constructed is Laurelton which. is right out the JFK Airport.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: ; Right outside JFK?
MR RESAVY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Would. it be easily, could I just have
Page 39 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: your name for the record. .
MR RESAVY: Christopher Resavy.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Would it be easily depicted if I
was to see it bearing in mind- that there are many antennas
near Kennedy Airport.
MR RESAVY: Yes you can "easily depict. which sideit is. We
can give you exact directions on how to get to the location.
That particular pole I believe is only 75 foot and the. F.A.A.
has requested we put a marked red light on the top for
observance features only. It' s not a requirement, but
they've asked us to do that as a. cour.tesy.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Very good. Thank you. Do you have any
thing else that you'd like. Great thank you.
MR SMITH: Mr. Resavy, this young man is. the. engineer for.,
together with__his comrades on my left who can, explain to
liberal arts students like myself how .these things work and
why you need one in Peconic and you need one in Mattituck and
you need another in Northville and one ,over in. Montauk. It
is somewhat technical on, I thoightT"about reducing it to
writing and. trying to submit it to you. It just would go on.
forever. I 'm going to let him try .to explain to. you how this
system works and why they have multiple sites. and probably
just try to answer. your questions there.'
MR RESAVY: For the record my name is Christopher Resavy, I 'm
the engineering manager for Metro One. If I can I want to
use some exhibits to try to give'.you an idea of how the
cellular works. The map that's located on this board is the_
entire area that Metro One is licensed to serve from the.
F.C-.C. The areas of New York that are outlined here is
what' s granted to us both- by the F.C.C. and the New York
C.P.C.N. to give you public utility status in the State of
New York. Cellular is based upon the ability to reuse
frequencies and some of you are. aware, mobile telephone
service has been in operation for many, many years. - The
first service actually started in 1946 with the Hobocki.n
police, the first ones to use mobile radio as a form of
communication. From that it has grown to a mobile telephone
service that you needed an operator, operators assistance in
order to place a call. A few years later, that was replaced
with an automatic type system with one transmitter, located
with very high power, "with one receiver. From that you could
have unlimited amount of"users on, because I. believe at that
time it was only four channels still and that was in the
early fifties. From that grew the next generation of mobile
Page 40 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR RESAVY, cont'd: telephone service in which there was:
still only one high powered transmitter but the service was
enhanced to twelve channels and at that time it was. also
invoked or developed in a point that there was multiple
receiver locations because what they found was although that
high powered transmitter could. get out long distances,. the
weakest link between the mobile and that transmitter was the
received passed back to the people, so they set up a system
of multiple receiving locations. so that the conversations.
could be a lot clearer than what they were in the- past.
Although in about the mid sixties Bell Labs, Motorola, spun
the idea of cellular and. that' s where it really started and
that was the ability to reuse frequencies in a multiple.
pattern over and over and over again. While working with the
F.C.C. , and going through many, many, many years of
development and trials and measurements. and. things that they
were trying to do, lone about the mid seventies the F.C.C.
granted Bell Labs permission to do trials in a few areas of
the system, of the country to get some actual measured data
in a much unused, unutilized frequency ban. That frequency
ban correlates to what used to be on a lot of the older T.V' s
and that was channel 67 to channel 83 on your UHF dial.. If
you remember those two step dials that we used to have, I
still have one in my house although. I can' t tune into. a
'frequency I don't know why. Selectively. of the channel I
guess. They were re-allocated later to cite. The trials
that I mentioned, they were done I think in four parts of the
country, one was in Newark, Chicago, L.A. , and I believe some
place in Texas, I'm not sure were. But from that cellular
was born in 1976, where they actually started to invoke and
develop all the specks and. everything else that goes into
what we have today as you know is cellular. I was lucky
enough and I'm not., I 'm luckily still. a young person. I think,
but I was lucky enough to get into cellularr back in 1981, so
I got to learn from some of the best designers and engineers
of this system, how this. stuff actually worked. To give you
a little idea, they went through numerous generations of what
kind of polyarn was the most regular reuse. thing to use, they
tried squares, they tried pentagons, hexagons, and
it came up that one of the Bell Labs engineers. actually wrote
a paper on beehive study that he had preformed and he was
doing something for the military on, structural support. Well
it happened that one of the other engineers in Bell Labs. was
working 'on Cellular, so that pattern that he had put together
and it was so regularly shaped. that after a little bit of
work with that it was then determined and accepted. that a
hexagon would be the most regularly reused shape: to use for
cellular. From that, you can reuse frequencies in a regular
patterned shape. We have depicted hereon the board is a
hexagon in many forms abutting each other and as you can see
Page 41 - April 30, 1991
Public Dearing —Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR RESAVY, cont'd: they can be readily reused. What we
currently have is a situation on the North Fork of Long
Island where we have a new site that we are beginning
construction in Southold and Peconic, the proposed location.
here in Mattituck which would be our missing cell site and.
some of our existing locations. We go back to the ability to
reuse these frequencies, this missing cell. .locati.on here
would be the Mattituck site. This could. be the site down on
the bottom here, site 71, down here site 72 could be out here
and this could be Riverhead out here which by way is our
water tank, it just happened to fall that .way in the plan.
The ability to reuse frequencies comes in a regular type
. pattern, in our particular system, , it' s like a- chess move,
the ability to read it' s frequency and that' s a knight move
if anybody remembers that. The knight takes two steps up and
one over. So, the same type of example here, one, two over,
these two locations would read it' s frequencies.. With this
site missing, this signal is stretched into this ,ar.ea, thus
stretching it' s ability to reuse its frequencies. This guy
has a greater potential for interference in here and if
anybody is familiar with C.B. ' s, when C.B. 's first came out
with 23 .channels, everybody could use it with very readily
ease because it wasn't a lot out there, but as it got more
and more popular people got accustom to their own home base
channel as it were at the time. If it was channel two, then
you had two people trying to talk in the same general
location apart from each other, usually the. conversations got
walked on and you couldn't hear that party that well.
Cellular uses the same kind of concept. We have to keep
separation distance involved in. That' s how we can't come up
with our regularly spaced intervals for th.e. south side. so we
currently have located here. It' s done by process of grids
placed aver the map from which we develop a search area that
we look and .we search for. Now we had three criteria for a
cell site, availability, owners willing. to deal with us, and.
that the site fits the criteria that we need for coverage.
In particular the location that we have picked in Mattituck
we were able to find those three criterias.. We were able. to
get a piece of property that was available to us, in a zone
that was pretty amenable I guess to our uses, and we were
able to get a landlord that was willing to deal with us and
the best case, which was the last one that worked for us. So
that' s kind of the particulars about this location.
MR SMITH: I 'm going to steal a little bit of his thunder
and I've worked on this a little bit. What he' s leaving
onset is the glass half full or half empty. Is that as you
begin to move the tower to the west, he begins to fall out of
these grid patterns that he has described to make the system
as he moves to the east he has a similar problem.
Page 42 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont'd: As a consequence in the area where they
need the town, this is within the area and as he has probably
described the issue. Again I suppose the one. thing that' s
left unsaid is that what makes this work as the gentlemen
from AT&T will say in a moment *is that the wattages, the
power involved in these things are relatively low. They
don't bleed over from one area to another. You could ,
probably make a tower in Orient or Montauk big enough to
reach all the way back into the city, but it would step on
everything in between and the system would be infected. The
reason that this works is that these are very low power sites
and that actually the signal is transferred by telephone
line from station to station and that' s what makes. it clear.
True?
MR RESAVY: Very true.
MR SMITH: . Why don't you let these folks ask you questions.
MR RESAVY: Do you have any questions? Let me clarify the
F.A.A. point about light that was brought up earlier. We ,
initially filed this location with the F.A.A. and they came
back and gave us a ruling that lighting and marking would be
required. We reviewed that we questioned why, because there
are particular rules that apply to part 77 for flight.
aviation patterns.. So we contacted a consultant that we use,.
Mr. James Hennesy a number of years ago was the head of the
F.A.A. and for many years ran that organization. We gave all
the particulars of this location to him for his review and
his opinion.. After a very careful review and some contact
with the F.A.A. it .is his opinion that we do not need
lighting nor marking. On our behalf he has re-filed this
location with the F.A.A. , he is right now ,seeking an
interpretation of the initial ruling that. they gave for the.
location. and we expect that within the next two weeks to
thirty days it takes anywhere in between that to get the
final answer of the F.A.A. and once we have that we will
submit that to the Town, but at this time it is Metro One' s.
opinion that we will not need lighting and marking. As in
the case with Laurelton if the F.A.A. wishes us. to light this
for safety reasons. without the marking we will do so.
MR SMITH: That way we will supply that in the contents of
the lights consideration.
MR RESAVY: And. that would be the flashing red lights on the
top.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER.: At all times or only during night time
hours?
Page 43 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR RESAVY: Whatever they specify for us. ' That is specified.
by night we must adhere to it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I tell you the reason why it concerns
me having flown in several small. airplanes, that is a
circling area and having the benefit of having a private
airport in the great hamlet of Mattituck, the tower I would
assume at being 1.04 feet in height could be a hazard to
pilots, I have not had the luxury of flying, either flying in
or flying out of Mattituck either in early hours of- the
morning prior to the sun coming up or to the sun going down.
But those are the times that most concern me:.
MR SMITH: Certainly if the Board wanted to call out
something more than the F.A.A. would require., we would be
happy to do so. Certainly we can't do less, I. guess is what
I'm saying.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand.. Okay. Yes, question?
(UNIDENTIFIED) : Bill and 2 live right across -the street from:
the Baxter building and the flight of the planes going to
Mattituck Airport is only one block away from our houses.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I know the, feeling. . There are many
more questions we are going to ask here so, you know, . and it
appears that these gentlemen and ladies have brought a
substantial crew of people here so.
METRO ONE: We' ll try to answer as many questions as we can.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Believe it or not it' s still a fairly
early hour for this. Board.. Thank you.
MR SMITH: I reduced Mr. Nickles' statement to writing, it
will make things go a little. faster.
MEMBER VILLA: Before the- engineer sits down I have a
question and that. question is why do you need the height of
102 feet when you know you said the one. in Kennedy is like 75
feet?
MR RESAVY: I believe the Southold tank tower is 125 feet,
the proposed location out here in Northville is 100 feet. and
each of the locations here we are an existing 300 footer here
that we' re at 150 . feet in. Southampton, We' re on the Hampton .
. Bays water tank and believe our.
MR SMITH: I believe he' s asking why 104 here.
Page 44 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR RESAVY: I 'm getting to that. According to the topology,
we need vary and different heights, we, did actual drive tests
in this location to determine..the lowest height that we can
go for this location and it was evaluated that with the
proposed location in both Northville and Southold, the
'Peconic police station that the 100 foot, 102 f.00t overall
height is what Metro One would require to provide the service
that we need to provide to our customers.
MR SMITH: The next witness is. Mr. Nickles.. As I stated to
the Chairman when I began to a degree that I could pre-file
some of this testimony I would do so, Mr. Nickles is present,
the aspect of the special exception that he testifes. to is
the effect. The letter reads in closing, it is my opinion
that the mass would not have any measurable effects upon the.
neighborhoods fair market value beyond the effect of the.
existing L.B. use or future L.B. uses as allowed under the
Southold. Town code. In the brief, that was presented by Mr.
Moore, he goes into some detail in mentioning the other
possible uses of the Baxter site, Mr. Baxter is in fact
present should there be any question about the existing
structures and the fact that they remain vacant for some
period of time and have been used for commercial purposes.
If there are any questions of the Board of Mr. Nickles I can
have him answer those questions..
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have no specific. questions of Mr.
Nickles at- this time. I do want to address a question to Mr.
Baxter later.
MR SMITH: This brings us to two of the health issues. Mr.
Petersen' s resume has been given to you earlier, he. is an
expert with AT&T Bell Labs and the, he goes into rather great
detail, I 'm not sure that I understand a great deal of the
detail, but in the closing paragraph, closing phrase of this
particular letter. The proposed Mattituck Cellular Radio
installation will not present any health problems to members
of the public. He is of course referring to the nature of
radio waves and light as the previous engineer stated to the
Board this frequency and the strength of the signal is the
same as was used in our. T.V. sets some years ago so I don' t
know that this is an issue. But if anybody has a question,
I' ll have Mr. Petersen answer the questions as health effects
and radio waves.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: My only concern is that of disruption
to any particular devices that might exist in the local
houses around the. antenna site.
MR SMITH: That' s an engineering question that this young man.
Page 45 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont'd: can address.
MR RESAVY: I can address that. We can provide. a document to
the Board that we' ll give Allen Smith. We've got a letter,
from the F.C.C. in charge of the New York area which
encompasses all of this location that the five years that
Metro One has- been in service we have not interfered with any
commercial consumer device within our service area.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That includes cablevision in any form?
MR RESAVY: That includes cable. t.v. , microwave ovens, t.v.
service, any consumer electronic device that is made for the
market place.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What about a hamm radio.
MR RESAVY: No. The ability to reuse frequencies is also
that we can. co-locate in many different areas, so as we are
located on the tower in Southampton we are also co-located
there with several hamm operators as. well. Several other
services.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:: Thank you..
MR SMITH: Mr. Chairman, one of the other gentlemen has given
me a copy of a letter dated February 28, 1991, of the F.C.C.
which appears to be the letter that was referenced. One of
the additional issues that arises here and I did not have the
opportunity to pre-file it, is the structural engineers
inquiries, Mr. Papay will address those, maybe to save us, all
I will tell you my experience in briefing this particular
matter I said to Mr. . Papay, "Can we blow this. tower down" ,
and he- said, "Of course we can blow the tower down..." I said.
well oh isn't that a matter of concern, he says no. He says
the force of the winds necessary to blow this tower down you
are not going ,to worry about the tower coming because your
neighbor' s car is going to be coming across your yard at the
same time. But I ' ll let him say that in his -own style of
engineering ease and answer any fall down questions that .
anybody may have.
MR PAPAY: The mono-pole itself is very similar to the light
posts and transmission towers that you. all see along. the
L.I.E. or what have you. The design of the tower itself
forth by E.I.A. which is Electronics Industry Association to.
22D which is a national standard what has been also adopted
by the American National Standard Institute. The design
criteria of the tower itself "is a fifty year design storm for
this part of Long Island it would be' eighty five miles an
V ,
Page 46 - April 30 , 199.1
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
. MR PAPAY, cont'd: hour. Metro One has opted for a hundred
year design storm which correlates to a one hundred mile an
hour wind. 5o that would be the design wind itself of thirty
three feet above the ground surface. You take that wind
speed and you apply factors of the thing to basically
accelerating the speed and the pressure so that you finally
come up with a final design and like Allen has said, if upon
failure there would be cars rolling across the landscape. It
.would take. a tremendous force.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is that the same also- with the antenna,
I didn't mean to cut you off, the possibility of .the antenna
blowing off.?
MR PAPAY: That' s an interesting question, I would imagine
that there would be possibly particles of antennas that would
dislodge before failure goes out.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Let me just tell you the problem that
we've had in the past. This Board has wrestled. with. some
interesting situations in reference. to wind generating
towers. Now we don' t have the sophistication in wind
generating towers that we have here it appears. and in no way
am I enhancing or not enhancing this. particular project,
however, we've had situations with the Coast Guard on North
Dumpling Island in reference to height, wind velocity and so
on and so forth, as to the disruption of their particular
light which sits on top of an old Coast Guard station. In
zones that would effect boating and so on and so forth.
However, it has been this Board' s policy in the past and even
with that of a prior council person who constructed a tower
that if the tower should fall it would at least fall on his
own persons' property. We have an unique situation here in
the respect that Mr. Baxter owns the piece of property to the
south, which I ' ll address in a moment. In this particular
case, if the wind was to blow and if we were: to have the.
tornado that we had in the early 80' s and some how dislodge
this particular-tower,- we would of course land on the
neighbor' s property to the north and if it did it in a very
small fashion, you know, maybe ten or fifteen or twenty feet
of .the tower would end up on that neighbor' s property, being
ninety five feet away from the northwesterly property line so
to speak. However for the tower to fall on the south side it
would definitely fall on Mr. Baxter' s property since he is
the current owner of the property. Is there any need for any
tie backs on a tower of this particular nature?
MR PAPAY: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Why?
Page 47 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR PAPAY: Because the tower itself is designed as a free
standing structure. It is not designed as a guy structure.
In fact you can get into complications if. you were to guy a
structure that was intended to deflect under load. If a guy
was to restrain it from deflecting and had failed itself, it
may cause the tower to fail, where as if the tower was not
guyed and was allowed to relieve itself it would not go.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How far is this tower penetrating the
ground surface?
MR PAPAY: The foundation itself varies depending on the soil
conditions, it would be approximately six to- eight foot in
diameter, would extend about twenty five or so feet into the
earth.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Encased in cement, six to eight feet.
MR PAPAY: That would be a concrete shell that' s reinforced
with steel.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don' t have any further questions
unless you do Bill.
MR SMITH: I have two things.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir.
MR SMITH: We can develop for you the engineering relative to
the affixing of the antenna, as a distinct object from the
pole itself. If the fall down radius is a matter of concern,
I think we can safely offer to move the pole to the south to
some degree, such that if it came down it would not fall in
the yard to the north at all. If that' s a. .
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And the other question I. would ask Mr.
Baxter and I've met Mr. Baxter in the rear at one time, but I
would ask him also if he would covenant his piece of property
to the south to the same distance so as. during the period of.
this lease that there would be no construction on that
particular piece other than. it appears to be a concrete .
building at this time, to the attune of 104 feet to a degree,
whatever degree you move it.
MR SMITH: I can discuss that with Mr. Baxter and ,I will get
that back to you. The way we have expressed it in other
jurisdictions when this issue has arisen, we would detail a
fall down pattern and the way those have been expressed in
other places, that they would not erect any structures in
those areas. They could be parking lots and the like, but no
Page 48 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SMITH, cont'd: structures within the fall down area.
I ' ll discuss that with him. He has counsel that represents
him in dealing with the lease and that is a lease question.
So I don't know that that would be fair of me ask tonight,
but, I will get you an answer.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR SMITH: This young man may be able to answer the antenna
issue in terms of fall down.
MR RESAVY: I just want to clarify one part about the
antennas themselves. The affixing we can supply the details.
and he can come up with the calculations for the affixing to
the tower, but the antennas that we use in our system are
made from a manufacturer who has supplied us a letter that
they will withstand a 150 mile an hour wind. So we can
supply that letter also, we had just applied that to a
previous. owner of a Town so that' s readily available and
we' ll forward that to Allen Smith.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR SMITH: I `ve pretty much have had let the engineers. have
their say and I' ll let Mr. Baxter jump to his feet in. a
moment. We've come down at least through my mental
recollection. of the check list in this special exception
portion of the hearing. To the legal end of it, I believe
that in submitting public utilities portion to the Board in
advance as Mr. Moore has done with the brief, a question was
raised relative to some can say in real English whether.
Southold was within the franchise area and I again have
Chris' statement to that fact reduced to writing and. I111 put
it in the record.
CHAIRMAN 'GOEHRINGER: Could I ask the question of the
difference between NYNEX and Metro One, are they interrelated
in anyway? Not necessarily at the remainder of the hearing,
but. . .
MR RESAVY: Since I used. to work for NYNEX I think I can
answer that, many years ago. The F.C.C. when they created.
the cellular franchises or the ability to provide cellular
service, they did it a little differently than they did many
years ago with the regional Bell operated companies. What
they decided to do is provide for not one but two entities
that could provide the service to the public.. That way there
is not a monopoly on. one side of the fence:, so each company
has in its guidelines of its license, operating license to
provide the best quality service to its customers that it
Page 49 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing -, Cellular Telephone- Company
Southold Z.B.A.
METRO ONE, cont'd: can and NYNEX is our competitor in this
particular market place.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR SMITH: That' s pretty much the presentation, Mr. Chairman.,
I' ll invite Mr. Baxter up, he' s not a witness of mine in
such, he is obviously interested and you can ask him any
questions you wish to ask. him, he wishes to answer.. Mr.
Baxter.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How, are you Mr. Baxter?
MR BAXTER: Hi, can I help you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The concern of the Board is that of,
my concern, not necessarily the concern of the Board is that
of the antenna falling on your property. In that this
particular time you do own both parcels.. If this
organization intends to abide by the normal conditions. that
we request, and the tower is moved another nine feet. to the
south, it of course encroaches that much more on your
southerly parcel. Our concern is that during the period of.
the time of the lease that there be no construction. within
approximately 104 feet of the, except what' s there now which
we can't you know, but that there be no construction within
104 feet of that antenna to the rear of that existing cement
block building that you have now and that' s basically one of
the requests that we deal with and I 'm just addressing it at
this point. It' s not necessarily something that you have to
come up with an answer for tonight, as Mr. Smith said that
you know; that this is a situation you might want to review
with your attorneys. but we have found that in the past if we
use that as a criteria that we start out with that it usually
ends up to be pretty good all the way around.
MR BAXTER: What is. the distance from the pole to our
property line?
MR SAMBURG: Let me see the revised statement if that' s all
you have.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure no problem.
MR SAMBURG: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is that the same one?
MR SAMBURG: No.
V
Page 50 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No.
MR SAMBURG: They have already taken the liberty of. moving it
to the south. The area we are concerned with of course is
the fall down below.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Why don't you show that to Mr.
Baxter.
MR SAMBURG: Sure. I think he' s familiar.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you have a date on that?
MR SAMBURG: Yeah, this is a revised date of 4/23/91.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You can give' us a copy of that.
MS KOWALSKI: We need about seven of them.
MR SAMBURG: Seven?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yeah.
MR SMITH: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Baxter will give you a written.
reply to that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Great.
MR SMITH: That is. my formal presentation, you have folks in
the neighborhood and neighbors to address the Board and if
they have concerns that I can answer, I ' ll try to do so.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER.: Okay. At the end of this discussion, I
will then recess for about two minutes and discuss with the
Board if we' re ,going to close this hearing or if. we' re going
to venture up to Laurelton and. take a look at this antenna
and then if we have' any other further questions and we' ll .let
you know.
MR SMITH: Thank you sir.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Would you gentlemen like to address the
Board in anyway, feel free to do it in whatever. fashion you
like, I know your concerns, you live close to the property
and I would have similar concerns and in no way are we.
MR SAMBURG: There are two questions I was going to ask
today.
V
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Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could I just have your name for the
record.
MR SAMBURG.: Ed Samburg.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. Samburg. Do you have any
other questions sir:
MR SAMBURG: They answered everything very well.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, I guess at this time we' ll take a
short recess and I guess we' ll go over to the office and kick
this around. Yes.
MR SMITH: I do have that video.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh yeah, that' s right.
MR SMITH: It' s . nothing much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is it a video?
MR SMITH: Yes, it' s, they hate it. If you want to see it,
it probably takes a couple, three minutes, it shows. how this.
new technology in the fire trucks works and stuff.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well if you want to ,sure, if you want.
to set it up while we' re taking the recess.
(Video was shown for approximately 10 minutes concerning
Lincoln Park, New Jersey safety services systems. )
MR SMITH: The .other two things, I guess that I did mention,
it reminds me of it. These are now used by the police in a
number of different areas within. my experience.. I tried to
find out whether they used. it in the hostage negotiations.
when the young man took over the place across the street in
Mattituck from the theater. The reason. that they do it, they
supply a discreet channel to the hostage that they can talk
to with this where they don' t have everybody and their
brother listening in. I 'm also told now that the fire chiefs
are liking these better and so are the police when they go to
a fatal, because it' s the nature of things such as all of us
who have monitors that we pickup the police signal and they
don't get the turnout of people when they start calling. in
names and things of that nature and asking for the M.E.
office, that they do when they use the fire channel to ask
for the M.E. and stuff like that. And I guess you guys. know
all about these things, but I mean that' s the size of it now
and the fact is there is some a little smaller.
Page 52 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
MR RESAVY: That' s antique at this point. They have them
small enough to fit in your shirt pocket phone.
MR SMITH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright the only last two questions
that we have are, were there any other alternate sites in
Mattituck that were investigated and. . .
MR SMITH: Yes, the commercial areas are to the west of this.
location, westerly generally at the school and up in that
area. The degradation of the signal is the problem that
happens to us when we get that far west. It. is this
technology that the wind is testified to earlier. They have
made a legitimate effort to identify parcels where they could
go that would satisfy the engineering. It begs the question,
we've a very similar experience in Riverhead. in trying to
identify sites. The water towers in Polish. Town which is one
of the sites. that.' s existing. They had to go up into
essentially a residential farm area, if you will, up on the
west end of town of the Brookhaven line. And the last one
was in Vernon Well' s field. in Northville, towards the tanks
as close as we could get. It is the dilemma that this Board
faces the technology is such that it dictates. certain things
if we had our brothers. we might do other wise. The problem,
I guess, with zoning is nobody had this technology in mind,
when we zoned either at Riverhead or Southold or the next
place. That' s the. problem. ,
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The other point is, I guess it' s the
suggestion. of. the Board to recess the hearing and. ask you to
come back with that determination if you can. give us a 104
foot circumference all the way around.
MR SMITH: I have a plan for three items that I 'm getting for
you. .-- I have to speak to Mr. Baxter and. solve the fall down
issue, I've agreed to get you this information on the antenna.
and when it comes loose., if it comes loose. from the tower
itself, and. lastly we're going to-try to get f.or ,you the
E.A.A. stuff .
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER.:. Okay and you are. going to get us the
address of the tower that presently exists, which is 75 feet
high in Laurelton.
MR SMITH: We shall.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR SMITH: Thank you.
a
Page 53 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing. - Cellular Telephone Company
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Surely.
MEMBER VILLA: How many of these are we looking at for the
Town of Southold now. Is this going to be the last one or
are we looking at more?
MR SMITH: , I' ll try to answer and then I' ll. have one of the
engineers answer. They' re speaking to the Village of
Greenport about going up on the water tower there and are
there any other sites. in Southold?
MR RESAVY: At this time we don't anticipate any for the
foreseeable future, that being our forecast for the next
three years that we have looked at. And as technology
changes that may be extended or it may be brought in. But at
this time we do not see anything in the next three years., at
this point.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would utilize
this antenna, other than yourself. Would you rent space on
this antenna to anybody else?
MR RESAVY: . We will not rent space on this tower to anybody
else except for the Town if they so desire to enhance their
services in that area. But as a practice of. Metro One, we
do not do that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. What about if the fire district
in the immediate hamlet?
MR RESAVY: We will be more than happy to support any of the
safety net, fire safety, anything in that vain.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank. you.
MR SMITH: That is already true on the tower that' s going up.
-CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. We thank you very much and we
hope to see you at the next meeting or so..
MR SMITH: The clerk will advise me or Mr. Moore when it will.
be back?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR SMITH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Hearing no further comment,
I make a mo.tion. recessing the hearing.
r1
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Page 54 - April 30, 1991
Public Hearing - Cellular Telephone. Company
Southold Z'.B.A.
All in Favor - AYE.
By
--a6 � C,�
(Transcribed by Tape)
(Not Present at the Hearing)
31991
I
RECEIVED AND FILED .BY
THE SOUTHOLB TC W14 CLINIC
DATE l I A��v I��UR 3- 1�e
Town Clerk, Town of 'cuthold