HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-03/01/1990 HEARING TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
2 COUNTY OF SUFFOLK STATE OF NEW YORK
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4 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
5 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS HEARING . .
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Main Road, State Road 25
Southold, New York 11971
8
Mardh 1, 1990
9 7 : 30 P.A.
10
11 B E F O R E
12 GERARD P. GOEHRINGER,
13 Chairman
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BOARD MEMBERS:
15
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.
16
. SERGE- DOYEN JR.
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LL JAMES DINIZIO, JR.
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19 ALSO PRESENT:
DOREEN F.ERWERDA
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2 THE CHAIRMAN: We will open the
3 hearing, ladies and gentlemen, and the first
4 thing to deal with is Southold Agway, which
5 is what we inadvertently didn' t deal with
6 . the last time.
7 This is an application that is re- .
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8 questing a fence in the front yard area for
9 the purpose of enclosing the front yard for
10 the house plantings or bedding plants for
11 the summer. Of course, they want to know
12 that they have it so that they can order the
13 proper materials . In this particular case,
14 the lot .
15 Does anybody have any particular
16 objection? The only problem I have, Char-
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17 lie, is that we have to allow this corner
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4 18 here to be unobstructed. So in other words ,
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19 you have got to be able to see through the
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fence. If you remember,, we did the same
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g thing across the street on Southold Lumber
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on Boisseau' Avenue and the corner of what-
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23 ever that next road . . . what is the next
24 road that runs between Boisseau and Youngs
Avenue?,. Whatever the name of the road is .
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2 It ' s Hommel . We made them put the lumber
3 back ten feet on both sides so you could see
4 down the road. Okay. All right .
5 So I assume you were not here for
6 this hearing, were you, Serge?
MR. DOYEN: No. This Agway is right
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8 around the corner here (indicating) .
9 THE CHAIRMAN: So I guess the first
10 thing we would say. is .we would grant them a
11 fence to a maximum height of six feet
12 without any' extensions , •and we are using
13 that phrase no barbed wire or razor wire
14 on top and in this particular case it is a
15 chain link fence. It is to be erected
16 approximately 22 feet from the building
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17 towards Youngs Avenue, the corner, that is
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4 18 the south corner of the existing building,
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19 and when we say 22 feet we are reflecting
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20 inside the property line. We mean on their
g 21 property and running . . .
MR. GRIGONIS: Doing the main part of
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the building because this is . . .
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THE CHAIRMAN: Okay . running a
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distance not to exceed . — I see . . . not to
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2 exceed about, 70 feet running north about
3 70 feet .
4 MR." DOYEN: The question is why not
5 raise a top?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Because it looks
7 horrendous in the front yard.
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8 MR. DOYEN: ' For aesthetic reasons .
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes . They told us
10 they plan on putting in green vinyl chain
11 .link that ' looks .fairly. decorative in the
12 front yard area. We did not have any objec-
13 tio'ns from any of the .'neighbors . So I can
14 see ;they do have a 'hardship, there, ,because
15 they evidently have had a problem with some
16 pilferage in the rear of the building.
17 MR.- DOYEN: This is to protect . . .
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18 THE CHAIRMAN: . . . their product. So
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19 it is to run again 70 feet north and back to
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20 the building 22 feet and enclosing the front
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21 approximately two-thirds to three-quarters
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22 of the front yard area. Is that correct?
23 MR. GRIGONIS: That is correct .
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The only request .we
25 have is that at the corner of the driveway
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2 coming off of Youngs Avenue, that the plant-
3 ings be held back a distance of ap
proximate-
4 ly ten feet, and the same to the north on
5 Youngs Avenue, so as to get a view of on-
6 coming traffic.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
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8 held off the record. )
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Site easement is what
10 the phrase is .
11 MR. DINIZIO: Sounds good.
12 THE, CHAIRMAN: . 'And the restriction is
13 it is not-to be moved.
14 MR. DOYEN: Is that Agway being moved
15 by the , corporation?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: It is a cooperative .
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17 MR. DOYEN: Do they have a manager?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I don' t know how their
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19 real managers deal with it anymore. I think
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20 it is really a corporation.
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21 Who wants t.o make the motion?
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22 MR. GRIGONIS: I will make it . '
23 MR. DINIZIO: I second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
25 MR. GRIGONIS: Aye.
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2 MR. DOYEN: Aye.
3 MR. DINIZIO: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN:. Let the record show
5 that Mr. Grigonis made the motion and it was
6 seconded by Mr. Dinizio.
7 The second one is Mr. Malone, an
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8 application over here on North Sea Drive.
9 Mr. Serge, you were not here for this one,
10 but Mr. Malone was gracious enough to come
11 out and meet with us . . . very nice man.
12 This is the place that we went down to, the
13 farewell party for Linda. His is the next
14 driveway to the northeast and they are
15 building. a house next-door, and it is about
16 three, maybe five houses on this , or five or
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17 six lots on this right=of-way, and interest-
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18 ingly enough, he owns half of the right-of-
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19 way and the fellow across the street owns
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20 the other half .
21 He is seeking to construct a six foot
22 high fence, and my mind escapes me if there
23 are fences to the distance, but I believe he
24 said it . was 70 feet
25 MR. DINIZIO: Yes, no further than
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2 that , I think.
3 THE .CHAIRMAN: Yes , I 've got 30 here.
4 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
5 off the record. )
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, the problem is
7 we have a placement where to place it; and
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8 number two, do we want to screen it; and
9 number three, do we want to?
10 MR. DOYEN: What do you mean by
11 screen?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I asked him if it was
13 going to be graduated six feet . In other
14 words, starting at four and going up to six
15 and going back down again.
16 MR. DOYEN: Yes . Would you do that?
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17 THE CHAIRMAN:' Just to make it a
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18 little more decorative because it is in his
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19 front yard. He said no'.
20 MR. DOYEN: The front yard is not on
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21 the corner.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
23 MR. DINIZIO: It is definitely in the
24 front yard.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The side of his house
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2 faces west , and it is really the side of his
3 house which is the front yard. We all know
4 across the street we granted this gentlemen
5 a trellis_ to put up to shade . . . to keep his
6 driveway clear of the restaurant next-door.
7 MR. DOYEN: I think that a six foot
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8 fence basically is to keep a clear view on
9 the corner more than anything else, don't
10 you?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes .
12 MR. DOYEN: So it is not a horror to
13 look at it and it is not on the corner.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. He said he
15 was going to place it approximately five
16 feet . . . didn' t he say that . . . five feet
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17 inside . . .
18 MR. DINIZIO: . . . of the right-of-
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19 way . . .
0 20 THE CHAIRMAN: . . . which, of course,
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21 he owns . So we don' t have to worry about
22 that , about other people having the right to
28 go over it .
24 MR. DINIZIO: He is going to place
25 that ten feet from the center of the right-
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2 of-way..
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Which is five feet
4 into .the property.
5 MR. DOYEN: He is not going to cut
6 off the view from his driveway coming in and
7 out .
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8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
9 MR. DOYEN: That is where it should
10 be four feet and scale up to six feet .
11 THE CHAIRMAN: He doesn' t want to do
12 that . I asked him that question.
13 MR. DOYEN: Well , the purpose of the
14 four feet is for view.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Well , the purpose of
16 this is to shield it from the house next-
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17 door which is three stories and overlooks
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18 his entire yard. That is what he is saying.
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19 MR. DOYEN: Okay. I still don' t
20 think that is a very good idea. You are
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21 coming out on the blind'. All of a sudden
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22 you've got a six foot fence and an automo-
23 bile. He cannot see it coming out .
24 THE COURT: Well , that is where you
25 want to graduate an eight foot section on
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2 both sides .
3 MR. DOYEN: Well , I don't know. I
4 would think so, so people could see him
5 approaching a public thoroughfare.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: . . . doesn't come out .
7 This is the right-of-way he owns . He owns
m 8 the center lot .
9 (Whereupon., there . was a discussion
10 held off the 'record. )
11 MR.- DOYEN: So - this is his driveway
12 here (indicating) .
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Right .
14 MR. DOYEN: Who would be using this
15 . . . certainly they could not. see him coming '
16 out . That is what I am getting at . If the
F fence is . . . I - don' t• know. That is just one
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18 thought in the matter
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19 THE .CHAIRMAN: That is why I asked
the question. ' You, go over to the one we
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s 21 just granted down in Southold, up here in
22 what is the name of that development ,
23 the new one? - We granted the fellow the same
24 thing. He had a dead-end road, on the one
25 side.
2 MR. DOYEN: It was just to take into
3 consideration the traffic, whatever, if
4 there was practically no traffic.
5 THE CHAIRMAN : If I was he, I would
6 not have erected this . I would have gone
7 out and bought bushes and greens . I
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s wouldn' t care if they grow to 20 feet high.
9 The ones you have on your house in Fisher's
10 Island.
11 MR. DOYEN: I care.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Then you can sympa-
13 thine with the man.
14 MR. DINIZIO: He wants a six foot
15 fence. I see no problem with him having it .
16 MR. .GRIGONIS: . If it is chain link
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17 you can see right through it .
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18 MR. DOYEN: That defeats the purpose.
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19 THE CHAIRMAN: So in writing this
20 decision we would say that the fence starts
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21 approximately 30 feet, okay, from the
22 beginning of his .property adjacent to the
23 right-of-way. Okay. Would we say that? We
24 would then say that the fence is not to
25 exceed approximately 70 lineal feet in
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2 length. Is that, correct?
3 MR: DOYEN: On the map, is this fence
4 going to be here, starting right here
5 (indicating) , approximately 30 feet?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: It ' is going to be from
7 here to here (indicating) .
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8 MR. DOYEN: Well , what I am getting
9 at is where he is coming out , here and here
10 (indicating) , further back . . . he gets the
11 fence . . . when he is coming out to the car.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Right . The point is,
13 what Serge is saying is that the fence
14 should be placed on his own property line.
15 It should not be placed on the right-of-
16 way. Even though a person owns a right-of-
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17 way, we have never placed a fence on a
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18 right-of-way. MR. DINIZIO: Let 's put him
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19 back four or five feet .
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20 THE CHAIRMAN: We have to say he has
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21 to establish his fence on his own property.
22 He can be six inches in. It can be four
23 inches in. But it is going to be on the
24 beginning of his property, not on the right-
25 of-way.
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2 MR. DOYEN: Just as long as. he can
3 stick his -nose out::
4 THE CHAIRMAN: We would establish it
5 on his own property, inside on his own
6 monuments, on .his own property.
7 MR. . DOYEN: You would have to,
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8 anyway..
9 THE CHAIRMAN: , It is as we said, 'not
10 to exceed 70 feet in length, and not to
. 11 exceed 6 feet in height.
12 MR. DOYEN: What you are. trying to
13 say . . . in his own land, as opposed. . -
14 THE CHAIRMAN: On his own property,
15 exclusive of the right-of-way. All right .
16 We will use the phrase "exclusive of the
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17 right-of-way. "
18 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
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19 held off the record. )
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20 THE CHAIRMAN: Not to exceed 70 feet
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21 in length and 6 feet in height .
22 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
23 held off the record. )
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Exclusive of the
25 right-of-way . . . if he questions you about
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2 that _just tell him we have to allow fire
3 vehicles to pass and they will pass and if
4 the fencae, is in the way, they will knock it
5 down. Does, anybody have any problem with
6 that?
7 You East Enders , anybody would like
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8 to grant that?
9 Charlie . . . I see his hand up.
10 MR. GRIGONIS: Okay.
11 MR. DINIZIO: I second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
13 MR. GRIGONIS: Aye.
14 MR. DOYEN: Aye.
15 MR. DINIZIO: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Let 's go on to . . .
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17 MR. DINIZIO: We have to address this
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18 next calendar. Right . I 've got a real
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19 problem with one of the people on this
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20 calendar as to whether or not we should even
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21 hear the hearing. That's the Jordan's
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22 Partners .
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I think, we can talk
24 about . . . they are asking us to .change a
25 zone on that place. What are we ,going
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2 to 'do?
3 MR. DINIZIO: We are not going to
4 grant , them what -they .want � and they are going
5 to be hurt .
6 THE CHAIRMAN: No. Let's look at it
7 practically. We had a similar situation and
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8� that was should we hear it or shouldn' t we
9 Bear i-t . You know we' have to hear it .
10 MR. DOYEN: ' We are bound to hear
11 anything no matter how. ridiculous .
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Don't jump at it, at
13 what we are looking to be on the surface.
14 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
15 held off the record. )
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The framework of what
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18 MR. DINIZIO: He is coming to us
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19 claiming hardship that the Town created. '
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20 The only hardship here is the hardship that
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21 the Town changed the zone of him in the
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22 middle of this .
23 MR. DOYEN: We cannot in effect
24 change a zone, and no matter how that is
25 coming about that is where we 'are
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2 coming from.
3 THE CHAIRMAN Do me a favor. On
4 this one, I will give you full authority to
5 take the'. file and go over, to Frank Isler's
6 office within the next couple of weeks and
7 we will pull it, if you want to pull it
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8 until . . .
9 (Whereupon, a discussion was held off
10 the record. )
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I had a discussion
12 with Frank Isler today. Can you go over
13 there tomorrow?
14 MR. DINIZIO: No. I will be at the
15 hospital tomorrow. I probably won' t be able
16 to make it there until next week.
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17 MR. DOYEN: It . is Friday.
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18 MR. DINIZIO: My wife and kids will
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19 be home. .
20 THE CHAIRMAN: His wife is going to
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21 be in the hospital tomorrow for an opera-
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22 tion.
23 MR. DOYEN: I said next week. I said
24 so what? It's already Thursday.
25 MR. DINIZIO: Go ahead and put it on
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2 and I will handle it my way.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: You want to speak to
4 Frank Isler about . it?
5 MR. DINIZIO: By all means . My
6 feeling's on this is .that 'it may appear to
7 this person that we are holding him up
8 again. In other words , it is just like it
9 is one more thing . this gentleman . . . one
10 more hurdle he has to cross again. I don' t
11 want that apparent . If this is not the way
12 to go and we decide that it is not the way
13 to go, this man has wasted a few more months
14 and I don' t want the Town to appear that
15 way'
16 MR. DOYEN: We want to know where we
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17 are coming from by the time of the hearing.
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18 THE CHAIRMAN: Not before the hear-
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19 ing°
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20 MR. DINIZIO: I would like to . . . if
8 21 it comes to the point . . . I don' t know if it
22 will . . . that we should not hear this , that
23 this is not within our jurisdiction and a
24 lawyer says so . . .
25 MR. DOYEN: There is nothing that we
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2 cannot hear. I mean, there is nothing as
3 far as jurisdiction goes, but we have to
4 . hear anything anybody wants .
5 . MR. DI.NIZIO: - If he mants to be
6 heard, fine.
7 MR.' DOYEN: ' Apparently, he does .
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8 MR. DINIZIO: But is it necessary he
9 be heard or 'should he be going to somebody
10 else?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me give you an
. 12 example. Joe Louzinski (phonetic spelling)
13 came before us.
14 MR. DINIZIO: Several times .
15 THE CHAIRMAN: But the first time he
16 came in with his project , down at Cutchogue,
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17 we heard him. You know he did, a good job
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18 himself explaining to us what he was build-
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19 ing down there and ,we determined okay, that .
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20 it was not within our jurisdiction to grant
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21 him a variance to operate this health club
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22 because he was not in the proper zone. He
23 was not in the proper zone.
24 He then sought .relief from the Town
25 Board and he went to the Town Board and they
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2 changed the zone to the business zone. Then
3 he came back to us for the special exception
4 and we granted it because. it was .within our
5 purview.
6 At this particular point I am not
7 trying to draw similarities between both
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8 cases, but 'this is the type of situation we
9 have to deal with.
10 MR. DINIZIO: Let ' s deal with it ,
11 then. I would like to talk to Frank about
12 it.
13 MR. DOYEN: You should, absolutely.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I would like you to
15 take the time but you have to understand
16 once this is advertised people are going to
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17 come in and look for the file. So I am
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18 dealing with the zoning right now and that
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19 is the one I am targeting on.
Y 20 MR. DINIZIO: Let 's feel free. I
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21 mean, that is one of the basic advantages we
22 have at this point . Once that plug is
28 pulled . . . it may be once the person who was .
24 just hired has been established then we have
25 a tremendous problem. I don' t really see
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2 any problem.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: That 's not true. The
4 person you spoke to you want to make sure is
5 completely objective. That ' s number one.
6 Number two is to give you the best
7 possible legal advice you can possibly get .
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8 -MR. DOYEN: Who is this?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Frank Isler from Frank
10 Yakaboski 's office, our special counsel .
11 MR. DINIZIO: If I can' t get to it
12 this week I will get to it the week after.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: So Subsection 2,
14 tentatively we. will set these down for a
15 hearing, which is known as 1 through 11 , for
16 the 15th of March to come in at 7 : 30 p.m.
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F 17 The only. one that we may tentatively remove
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18 is Michael Herbert, and we will check with
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19 the Town Attorney.
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20 (Whereupon; a discussion was held off
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21 the record. )
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22 THE CHAIRMAN: So what we are going
23 to do is we will check with Matt, because I
24 mean if Michael calls me tomorrow there
25 is no way I can have discussed it with Matt .
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2 That brings us to another situation
3 and that is Gus Wade, on February 6th of
4 this year. We determined that there was a
5 preliminary action for the acceptance of the
6 Wade file which is Appeal Number . . . I don't
7 have the Appeal Number.
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8 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
9 held: off the record. )
10 THE CHAIRMAN: At this particular
11 point in time we have spent . . . this is a
12 February 22 date' ci.rculating, this prelimi-
13 nary notice of lead agency. We have heard
14 back from the Planning Board which says they
15 have no objection to our taking lead agency
16 status .
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17 We have heard from the Trustees and
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18 we are of. the understanding that the ap-
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19 plication they had before them has been
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20 withdrawn, and I feel that possibly they
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21 should be a cooperating agency at this
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22 point , on 'this particular project, not-
23 withstanding the letter I have before me
. 24 which should be placed in that record.
25 MR. DOYEN: okay, but you can' t have
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2 both ways against the Trustees . Here are
3 we. We are requesting that the SEQRA and
4 all involved agencies suspend action on this
5 matter.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
7 MR. DOYEN: So technically, if the
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8 guy wanted to push it and he wanted to be
9 heard before us , we couldn' t turn that one
10 down , any more than the other- ones.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Except, that based upon
12 this letter from the Town Trustees I am
13 s:uggesting tonight as a matter, and I will
14 recommend to you, that we write a letter to
15 Mr. Wade indicating the .receipt of this
16 letter from the Trustees and send him a copy
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17 and telling him . . . and asking him how he
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18 would like us to proceed. And that is
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19 basically does he want us to have a public
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20 hearing or does he not want us to have a
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21 public hearing at this point?
22 MR. DOYEN: What was his application
23 before?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: 280A, which is a
25 bridge from the Town road to his property.
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2 MR. DOYEN: He has been issued a
3 building permit already.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: No. The building
5 permit was revoked in 1984 or ' 85 .
6 MR. DOYEN: By whom?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Victor Lessard.
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8 MR. DOYEN: On what grounds?
9 THE, CHAIRMAN: I assume it was im-
10 properly issued.
11 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
12 held off the record. )
13 MR. DINIZIO: They considered access
14 over the water at 'the time to be . . .
15 MR. DOYEN: That's what I 'm .getting
16 at . If that was a water access that would
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17 maybe satisfy 280A by some standards in by
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18 that case . . .
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19 (Whereupon, there was a discussion
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20 held off the. record. )
s 21 THE CHAIRMAN: In dealing with this
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22 letter, I would like to establish the fact
23 that we do have lead agency status . And I
24 will afford anybody that would like to, that
25 does not have their copy of the State
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2 Environmenta,l Quality Review Act . If you
3 don' t have it , you can find it from the last
4 time we did it . I am affording you another
5 copy.
g MR. DOYEN: Very good.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: On the 15th we will
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8 establish the type of agency we are going to
g be dealing with or the- status of this par-
10 ticular lead agency.
11 MR. DOYEN: You mean the informa-
12 tion.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: The informational
14 part ; yes .-. 'That. is 'right ' on the 15th day,
15 maximum limit . So at this point , for all
16 intents and purposes, I will make a motion
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17 to establish lead agency status charge.
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4 18 MR. DINIZIO Second.
19 MR. GRIGONIS: Aye.
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20 MR. DOYEN: Aye.
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u 21 MR. DINIZIO: Aye.
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22 THE CHAIRMAN: Bearing in mind we
23 have read this letter from Mr. Wade, I
suggest we right a letter to Mr. Wade in-
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25 dicating to him based upon the letter from
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2 the Town Trustees that we are leaving it up
3 to him which way he would like us to proceed
4 with his application. This has no bearing
5 on the SEQRA. process , and that it doesn' t
6 want us to go public hearing with this . We
7 are not making any positive decision and I
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8 intend to put this in the letter to him
9 based upon the letter from the Trustees that
10 they have denied him twice on this applica-
11 tion, on his own application, for the
12 traversing of the property.
13 MR. DOYEN: Just one comment for the
14 record: This is a very tricky thing because
15 in effect if he. is denied the use of his
16 property that brings up a whole other can of
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17 worms.
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18 (Time noted: 8 : 23 p.m. )
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20 I , Gail Roschen, do hereby certify that I am
8 21 an Official Court Reporter and that the foregoing
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22 constitutes a true and correct transcript according
23 to my. official. stenographic notes .
24 /
25 GAIL ROSCHEN
Official Court Reporter