HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-11/15/1979 s
Southold , ToiwnSoard of Appeals
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971
TELEPHONE (516) 765-1809
APPEALS BOARD
MEMBERS
CHAR.LES GRIGONIS,JR.
SERGE DOYEN,JR.
TERRY TUTHILL
ROBERT J.DOUGLASS , Acting
Chairman M I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
NOVEMBER 15, 1979
A :xegnlar xgeet�ng of the Southold Town Board of Appeals was
head on November 15, 1979 at 7 :30 P.M. (E.S.T. ) at -the Town Hall,.
Main Road, Southold, New York 11971.
Present were; 'Messrs. Robert J. Douglass, Acting Chairman;
Charles Gr�gonis, Jr. ; Terry R. Tuthill, Jr. ; and Serge Doyen Jr.
and Robert W. Tasker, Town Attorney.
RE,CD'S"SDD .HDARTNG; Appeal. No. 2574 . Application of Raymond
and Anna C1;ac�,a, Main Road, Greenport, New York (James Bitses, n
Esq: ) for a variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VIII, Sec-
tion 100"80 for permission to divide property with insufficient n
" area and. width. Location of property: Lots No. 157. - 160, in- H
clusive, Map of Peconic Bay Estates, #1124 , Greenport, New York.
The subject hearing was reconvened at 7 :40 P.M. 'b
t�
. 'MR, DOUGLASS : We have a request that it be further recessed " �
unt�,l December 6, 1979 because of not obtaining all the needed z
papers for rendering a decision.
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On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it
was
RESOLVED, that the matter of RAYMOND and ANNA CIACIA., Appeal
No. 2574, be RECESSED until December 6, 1979.
Vq.te, of, the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, Tut-
hxll I and, Doyen
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No. 2587 . Application of Stephen
�?. Perri.cone and Penelope Kousouros , 7470 -Sound Avenue, Mattituck,
New,- York for a variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VI ,
Southold .Town Board of Appeals -2- November 15 , 1979
Section 100-60 for permission to establish1a disco bar with dancing.
Location of property: Sound Avenue, Mattituck, New York; bounded
north by Sound Avenue, east by Sepko , south and west by Meglio.
MR. DOUGLASS : This was recessed for further information. We
have received more papers that wererequested. At this moment, I
would like to say this is a hearing and we want those who desire
to be heard, we would like to control the length of time in the
beginning to say around three minutes per person, and then after-
wards. if there is anything that he would like to say, we will come
back to him. At this time why I will open the hearing to any of
those who wish"-to speak in favor of this, and to the applicant,
Mr. Perricone.
STEVE PERRICONE: First of all , I would like to introduce my b
partners, Artie Foster and Frederick Axelson. Mr. Chairman, as
yourself and the Board already know, our property and building is H
and has always been zoned for a restaurant and bar. What we are n
asking for tonight is the use variance for expanded dancing area z
and the elimination of the restaurant, because we don't want to
get into restaurants or serving food. We also have a petition
that you have in your possession now, with approximately 620
signatures of persons who wish to see the opening of a place such P)
as we propose tonight. Just a little on the disco itself , we also H
want to' have a teen disco which is very popular in the Country o
today, for teenagers in the age from 12 to 17 . All alcoholic
beverages will be removed from the bar at this time. During the N
teen disco hours, no alcoholic beverages will be served anywhere Ul
on the premises during this time. Soft' drinks such soda, fruit co
drinks, will be available for the young people. As you know all
young people need some place to go. We're proposing to start off
with two nights a week, on a Wednesday night from 6 to 9 in the
winter and on Sunday from 2 to 7 P.M. In the summer we would
like to extend it, say Wednesday from 6 to 9 and possibly Friday
from 6 to 9 or 6 to 8 :30 and Sunday also from 2 to 7 P.M. , just
to keep the kids off the street and to give them something to do.
Disco is very popular with our teenagers today. A lot of them are
into rock music, but a lot of them do like disco music. I visited
quite a few discos, one which, is in Sag Harbor that does have teen
disco, and it' s going over very well in that town. Teenagers,
they have 300 to 400 teenagers im this place that holds, say 500
people, and it' s very popular. The residents of the town like it
to keep the kids off the streets, and it gives them something to
do. The adult disco is going to be regulated. We're looking for
participation of people from 23 years and over, with proper attire.
We don ' t want anybody coming in with dungarees or dirty clothes,
what have you. A disco is different from, say a bar, or a bar
with rock music. Disco people(_ dress a little different. They
dress like I 'm dressed now, or most of the people dressed here.
They' re not old ragly clothes. There won't be any teeshirts
allowed. It will be a real nice, place as far as that goes. Also
at the door we are going to ask for proof just to keep the younger
people out, to keep it to a 23-year and older,': age. This is what
we want, this is how we are going to control it with dress code
Southold Town Board of Appeals -3- November 15, 1979
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and proofing at the door. . Now, as far as the material used for
the ceilings and the walls as you requested, the dance floor area
where music will be is concentrated by directional speakers, the
west wall will be of hardward 8 inches of blown-in cellulose com-
pacted insulation from 3 ' above dance floor to the ceiling. The
rest of the wall will be 8" cement block. The north wall which
1.s. the longer wall will be 3/8" sheetrock from the dance floor to
the ceiling covered with a 1/4" plate glass mirror, from the floor
to 8 ' high with 8" of blown in compacted cellulose insulation- also,
from 3 ' above the dance floor will be 8" cement block. The east
wall will be the same as the west wall and the remainder will be
covered with hardwood and cement block. The entire ceiling of the
club will be of 3/8" sheetrock and 6" of batting insulation with
two roof vents in the center. Both east and west walls will have
directional intake vents to circulate air. from the cooling system.
This system will work extremely efficiently due to the constant
cooling temperatures surrounding the building caused by open moist H
fields and will eliminate any noise escaping. Inside the club, n
800 of the club will be covered with carpeting on the floors . All z
lounge areas would be, of wood and elevated with couches and love
seats, chairs and tables, indirect lighting and what have you as ,>
far as lighting goes. The bar will be 10 ' x 16" , four-sided, con- 0
structed of wood with 7 ' ceiling and balcony above the bar area.
As you know, carpeting, fabric covered couches and wood are all ~'
noise absorbing materials and will deaden the sound considerably. o
I think Fred has something to talk about, too.
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FRED AXDELSON: In an effort to satisfy Some of. the Board' s cn
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c�uesta;ons they may have regarding noise and how much noise will
be going to the outside, this seems to be a big question, so we
conducted some tests of our own using a DB meter, which records
sound level. What we did to start this test off is we brought
.in a stereo system and turned it up quite loud just to get a
reference level. The level that we recorded at 1 ' away from the
speakers was 115 DB' s. We directed this towards the back end of
the building, and I would like to make a note that 98 to approxi-
mately 110 DB' s is generally what a .disco puts out about at one
foot away from the speaker. So this was a little higher than
probably what would be in a normal disco. To give you a little
background on the construction of the building at this time as
Steve had mentioned, there are 7-1/2 ' x 8 ' windows in that front
part of the building. We will be insulating that much better
which was covered under insulation factors that we mentioned
before.' So , some of the readings that we recorded at this time
in the inside of the building were at 20 feet away from the
speaker, 80 DB' s, which would be equivalent to a level of a
loud orchestra. Forty feet away, 60 DB' s, which is equivalent
to the level of background music. Then what we did is we went
outside the building & took some readings to see how much was
going to bleed through the building walls with the type of
construction that it has now. So what we recorded with the DB
meter on the outside of the windows with the DB meter touching
was 74 DB' s, and this was with the meter touching the window
itself, and we did that around all the sides of the building.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -4- November 15, 1979
And that ' s equivalent to light factory noise levels. Ten feet
away we recorded 62 DB' s, which again is equivalent to background
MUSIC. Twenty feet away we didn' t get any reading at all. The
reading that we have at that particular scale would be 50 or less
and that ' s equivalent to just wind, wind and trees, and that kind
of thing. We also took some readings on the dual highway so that
everybody can relate these readings to things that you run into
every day. We recorded a trailer truck going by and that measured
98 DB' s. A pick-up truck at 84 , and a car at 76 . Then we backed
up 100 yards away and we recorded the traffic at 65 DB. We went
to another spot, where there was a cocktail party and a band play-
ing, just here again to get some further figures, we recorded a
live band playing at 10 feet away at 104 DB, and normal bar con-
versation without a band playing at 88 DB. We went outside this
establishment and recorded a level of approximately 55 DB; here
again normal background noise levels. So what we 're going to do
inside is we are going to have directional speakers that will beam H
the sound down towards the dance floor and towards the rear of the o
building. The sound system is being designed by a disco sound z
studio. There will be noise escaping from the building due to the
proper design of the system, the insulation, and proper venting.
The conclusion based on these readings of noise absorbsion, that ro
windows will not be open in this establishment, we will have a m
double-door entry system, better insulation and construction, and H
a large distance away from any residence which is approximately z
a quarter of a mile away to the nearest house. Nuisance noise 0
will not be a problem. Typical highway traffic produces a higher
noise level than what will bleed out of the building. I would U1
just like -to touch on in conclusion about littering. No glasses Co
or bottles will be allowed out of the building. There are strict
alcoholic beverage commission laws regarding this and it will be
strictly enforced. I think Mr. Foster would like to brief you on
something else.
ART FOSTER: I know there were some questions as far as
capacity of the building, people. The building is approximately
1, 770 square feet of usable space. Now we figured it out on a
ratio of 15 square feet per person and it comes out to about 99
people and our parking we figured modestly at 1. 5 people per car,
and we got 66 spaces, which also comes out to 99, actually the
square footage for the people is a little more but we're not
looking for more than 100 people anyway. So that ' s what we
figured for that. And on road frontage, I know there was a
question about traffic congestion. Now we've got the parking
set up so that you can drive all the way around, everybody pulls
in, nobody has to back out onto the dual highway, there is
egress and ingress all the way around the building and forward
directions, so there ' s no problem:, there. Also, that is a dual
highway, -there, and it' s wide enough where if you do pull out
there' s plenty of room for another car to pass. Now I go in
and out of there constantly with my trucks. and trailer and I 've
never had a problem, and that' s talking 45, 50 feet long as
opposed to 18 feet, you know, the normal car. And that ' s about
all I 've got to say on that. We've got regulations from the
Southold Town Board of Appeals -5- November 15, 1979
Health Department as far as where the cesspools have to be put
in, things like that, and we've got approval from them on what
we have to do, so we are going to take care of that. And, also,
I know you had a question about the fire code. We've got a
letter from the Mattituck Fire Department signed by Chief P.
Coleman, as far as the fire code, and I will read the letter if
you would like, or you can read it amongst yourselves. Do you
want me to read it?
MR. DOUGLASS: Yes, go ahead.
MR. FOSTER: It' s addressed to Mr. Perricone, it says,
" . . . as of our meeting held at your property on Sound Avenue,
Mattituck, on 10/10/79 with Mr. Douglass, Mr. Tuthill , Mr. Foster
and Mr. Axelson and yourself, the following advice is offered: ' Lro
To satisfy the requirement necessary to obtain permission from W.
the Town of Southold concerning Fire Department approval, I
recommended that the Southold Town Building Code be used as the o
guide in this case. The absence of a Town fire code brings the z
building Code into play in my estimation. Please call at any
time if we can be of further assistance... . . " Of course, we are
going to abide by the Town Code, there' s no problem there. That' s
about all I have, just in summing up, I know my partners and o
myself, as residents and businessmen in Mattituck, would never
tolerate any public disturbances such as the ones that were sug- z
Bested at the last meeting. Above all, it' s a fact that the 0
Town, State and Alcoholic Beverage Commission Laws are very
stringent when it comes to what is considered proper management Ln
and customer behavior in an establishment that serves alcoholicco
beverages. We in no way are going to tolerate any abuse of the
law, We're also not going into business investing a,,-lot--of
money, time and effort to flirt with the possibility of being
put out of business by any authorities. And we're looking for-
ward to opening a sophisticated establishment, which people will
enjoy and it will be an asset to the community rather than a
liability. Thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : That you for your presentation. Is there
anybody in favor of this application who==_ iould like to start off?
Would you please give your name to the secretary as you get up? .
MICHELLE BECKER: I 've been a business person in Mattituck
for 11 years now.. I 've also lived in Mattituck for 15 years,
therefore, I feel I could speak highly of these three gentlemen.
I 've know Steve for seven years now through business. He' s
secretary to the Chamber of Commerce and he has also been on the
Board of Directors of the Lions Club. I have known Artie Foster
for seven or eight years now through business. Also he is a very
active member of the Chamber of Commerce and he is also in the
Lions Club. Fred has been known for his superior reputation
living on the North Shore' in Mattituck and Jamesport for his
entire life. The integrity of these three gentlemen alone, I
know they would not tolerate any disturbance out of their Disco.
There has been lots of controversy that I 've heard being in
Southold Town Board of Appeals -6- November 15, 1979
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business in Mattituck, that this would create a traffic jam. Well,
going to the A & P there' s a traffic jam right on the Main Road
and there' s no Disco in front of it. I know the kind of Disco
they are planning on putting up because I saw the different plans
and everything. It' s definitely a high-class place. It' s for
the' adult-minded person that would like to go out on a Friday or
Saturday night and do a little bit of dancing. I feel these
three -gentlemen should be praised for the business venture that
they are about to undertake, and not to be critized in the way
that they are, because it' s definitely going to be a high-class
place, and I feel it will be an asset to Mattituck. Thank you.
T4Pj, DOUGLASS : Thank you, ma'am. Yes, ma 'am?
MARIE JOHNSON: I wonder if I might ask a few questions for
information not on one side or the other. Mr. Perricone said
that the site had been zoned for restaurant, and I wondered how H
long it has been zoned for restaurant use, and if indeed it ever o
has been used as a restaurant, and I wondered if there was some
variance involved' in having it zoned for restaurant use and if
that variance still applies. And then I would like to ask also
how many businesses can go on in one area? I mean, how many
businesses does a variance cover at one time? And I wonder if
the other businesses now going on in this area will cease to go ~'
on if the Disco is permitted? That' s an awful lot I would like o
ti know.
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MR. DOUGLASS : Would you give your name please, ma'am? Ul
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MRS. JOHNSON: Yes, I 'm Marie Johnson from Southold.
MPl , DOUGLASS : Would you care to answer (Mr. Perricone) ?
MR. PERRICONE : I could answer the first question, just
from talking to the Building Department as far as B-zoning goes,
we are allowed to have a restaurant bar with limited dancing
now. I imagine it' s been that way ever since it ' s been zoned
business. Now I don' t know how long ago that was, but I
imagine it' s been since the building was built. As far as
the second question goes, I can't answer it because I don 't
know the answer to that. (Question of how many business can
be usedl,
MRS. J'OHNSON; Has it ever been used as a restaurant?
MR. PERRICONE: Oh, that? No. It hasn't. It was bought
for the purpose of using it as a catering hall by Mr. Kousouros
at the time, which I imagine was about 15 years ago. It was
going to be North Fork Manor at that time, but he never did
open $t up as a catering hall, and then the other question--
MRS. JOHNSON: Well, the other one is that if this is
allowed, if you are allowed to open a disco there, will you
also continue with the fence business and the waste disposal
Southold Town Board of Appeals -7- November 15 , 1979
business and all the rest of them on the same site, and is that
permitted? Perhaps Mr. Tasker would be the one to answer that.
MR. PERRICONE: Yes, the fence business will still be there,
and the siding company which is one company in all. We don' t
have a waste disposal business there. I don' t know--
MRS. JOHNSON: Mr.. Foster ' s business, what is that?
MR. REIWCONE: That ' s a cesspool"
MR. FOSTER: Z just do excavation and new installations and
things like that. I don't do any,-
MRS. JOHNSON: Are you permitted to have all these businesses 'b
on one site under a single variance?
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MR. FOSTER: Well, we're not under a variance presently. We n
don!t.. need a variance just to continue the businesses that we have. z
We're just asking for a variance to permit dancing on the premises.
MRS. JOHNSON: If you did that, will it preclude the others ' ro
closing down or can you do all these things on one site?
MR. FOSTER: I really don't know. I imagine these gentlemen z
will have to answer that. I don't have any intentions of closing °
my, gther business if that' s what you're thinking. N
MRt AOUGLASS : Is there anybody else,- co
CLF40 TSOUNTS : May I ask a question, my name is Cleo Tsounis.
The last time Mr. Perricone was here he didn't have these two
partners. When did these two men become his partners, that' s
my first question.
MR. DOUGLASS : Wait a minute, ma 'am. I asked for people to
speak that were for it?
MRS . TSOUNIS: I couldn' t ask just the questions and then we
could go into-- There is one more very important question I
would like to ask. He mentioned that there was going to be a
night for the 12-17 year olds and there was going to be a time
for the 23 and over. What happens to our most vulnerable age,
17 to 23? This is the dangerous age. What happens to those
kids, they are no`c allowed in, or they sneak in, or what happens
to those kids? Can I ask that? That' s what I wanted to ask.
MR. FOSTER: The only reason that we decided to try and hold
it for 21 and over for the women and 23 and over for the men was
simply because the 18 to. 21 year olds don't seem to be interested
in disco.
(Negative sigh from the audience. )
Southold Town Board of Appeals -8- November 15, 1979
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MR. FOSTER: Well, all right, maybe some of them are. I
know a lot of them and primarily they don' t seem to be. Anybody
that comes to the door that is old enough to walk in, being of
legal age and is dressed properly is going to be allowed in,
providing,-
MRS. TSOUNIS : Before you said 23 and over.
NCR, VOPT9R; Thip is what we are going to try to do . Legally
we can' t, but we're going to try. I 've been in many places where
they say ' 23 and over; there ' s a sign right on the door. I've
never seen them refuse anybody. It' s just to discourage anybody
coming in younger.
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anybody else that wishes to speak �
for this application? Sir? �
DAVID STRONG; I think maybe they ought to say a few plusses n
on it. Right nowall of our young people and my sons would have z
to go to the southside. We need something like this. I think it' s
a good area to do it, and I really feel that it should be allowed. >
We hear a lot of objections, but where are these kids-going now.
They're going someplace, and maybe that ought to be taken into
consideration also. And I 'm in favor of the application.
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MR. DOUGLASS ; Yes, ma 'am. o
EVEEYN GORDON: I would like to particularly speak for the Eli
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young people as well as speaking for anybody who loves to dance. co
I think if you give young people a pleasant place to be, they
more or less reflect the atmosphere of that place. If they can
gather and dance and chat and have a coke, they will be someplace
which is friendly, where they are happy, and happy kids do not
get into trouble. They're not bored.
GEORGE CAPON: I 'm from Greenport. I go along with this
gentleman that just talked before. I have a daughter that goes
dancing, she goes to Drossos and finds that they can't get in
there, so they get on the phone and say, "Dad we 're going over
to south side. We want disco dancing. " ' What can I say? "Take
it easy and watch your driving. " I 'm worried until the time
they get back, and hope they get back safely. I think it ' s a
very good thing to have something around this town, something
like this.
MR. DOUGLASS: Thank you, sir. Yes, ma 'am.
SUSAN JACOBS: I think having a discotheque in Mattituck is
a drawing card for our summer residents also. Many of them only
come out for a few days because you can go to the beach just so
often and walk around Mattituck for just so long, but if there
is something for them to do in the evenings, they' ll stay in the
area longer and let ' s face it, spend more money at our restaurants,
at a discotheque naturally and just buying the things -we have in
Southold Town Board of Appeals -9- November 15, 1979
Town, and the whole economy will benefit by it. /A
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Anybody else? Yes, sir?
TOM WILLIAMS : From Mattituck. I 'm a businessman from Mat-
tituck and also a high school substitute teacher. I teach high
school and I 'm in contact with kids in Grades 7 through 12 which
are the ages of 11 through 17 or 18 . At the present there has
only been maybe two functions at Mattituck High School for
students , these being dances. The students come up to me when
I teach class and complain that there aren' t much activities
for these young people to do, and when students have nothing to
do, then can only go look into trouble, so what I am saying is
that an establishment like this that would cater to the 12 to 17
year old students would be very beneficial to their moral up- ro
bringing. They will not venture into trouble and stray away from
the Town itself. So I can substantiate the claims that the Town �d
as a whole needs something like this particular disco.
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MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Yes, ma 'am?
LEONA WHITE: I think, I just would like to say that I am
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in favor for the establishment. I feel as though the senior (D
citizens have a new home or a place to go to on Peconic Lane P)
and the Youth Center, and anyone our age, say 25 and over , we ~
just don't have anywhere to go to dance. We've got bars to go p
to, but we haven't got a place to dance and that' s what we want
and we don't want to go to the southside. We want to be here tv
and do it here in 'down. "'
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MR. DOUGLASS; Thank you, ma 'am. Is there anybody else
w�'.sbxng to speak for this application? Is there anybody wishing
to speak against, the application?
MR. PANAGOPOULOS: My name is Ange Panagopoulos and I am a
resident of the Town of Southold. Mr.Chairman, I heard one of
the ,.partners say that it' s going to be a place of reputation and
all that. Bear in mind that one of the two biggest discos in
this Country, the 45 Casino, the dirt is coming out now. The
Studio 54 , you see what happened. The Casino now what is hap-
pening. You have to take that into consideration. I don' t say
that the boys there are not clean, but who' s going to be going
there is going to be clean? As- far now as the kids that they
are going to have no entertainment that- they don' t have any
place to go. Remember also that this Town spent a lot of money
for that Youth and Senior Citizen Center in Peconic. Now, if
you wanted the Youth Center, have it. There was no reason if
the kids are going to have entertainment inside the Disco the
Town to go through all the .expenses. And I can see the place
there that is feasible for traffic. Mr. Tasker, he can remem-
ber very good when they have opened that the County comes there
to put, you know, that railing to stop the place from taking
traffic off the Main Road. You remember that, Mr. Tasker?
MR. TASKER: No, I don' t.
�Seuthold Town Board of Appeals -10- November 15, 1979
L , �
MR. PANAGOPOULOS : With- Mr. "Kammerer, your past supervisor,
it was a big meeting. But the adjoining property of the same
owner, it was six years ago. I have nothing else to say.
MR.DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else wishing
to speak against this application?
FRANK HUSAK:- What I would like to know is what benefits
is the Town as resident taxpayers going to get from this Disco
outside of problems with the kids, drunks, races going all over
the place, if they want a place, they got a Senior Center ,on
Peconic ' s Lane which we spent thousands of dollars for and which
was meant for the youth and the seniors. They want to dance,
they can dance. They go down on the beach with their portables,
they dance. Why do they need a thing like this? You got a Fv
disco on the Main Road in Mattituck, it ' s nothing but headaches, �d
noise, a bunch of hooligans. They don't even come from Matti- H
tuck, and we've got to put up with this. I live down near the n
Mattituck Breakwater, a Town beach., It' s worth your life to z
walk out on the street when these hooligans come down there.
These kids that are brought up in the high schools with driver >
education will improve their behavior and everything else. It ' s ro
the other way around. They disregard the law and abuse every w
privilege that' s handed to them. Why should we sit back and
let this go on? Pay taxes and put up with the nuisance. And z
the Town, as a rule, what is it going to gain from it, pay o
higher taxes? Are you going to bring any business into the Town?
They wouldn' t spend 20� and the booze that they bring with them, Ln
outside, what control do they have? Who is going to supervise co
that and make sure these guys behave themselves? Did you ever
get in a middle of bunch of 15 and 16 half-charged up kids and
. try to regulate them? They will knock your brains out. I know,
because I was threatened. You can't open your mouth because they
have no respect to you, the law or anybody else, unless you got
two to one against them. But. if they out-number you, forget it.
I -think the thing should be rejected, we 've got one disco, you've
got plenty of gin mills in the place, there' s other places to go
dancing. And you got the Youth Center. This thing should be
denied from the word "go. " And if anybody approves it, then I
hope--
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anybody else desiring to speak
against this?
MICHAEL MADAS: What I have to say may take a little bit
more than three-minute limit imposed upon me, therefore, I--
MR. DOUGLASS: Your name?
MICHAEL MADAS : Michael Madas, I 'm from Mattituck. I 'd
like to reserve the right to speak the three-minute limit. I
think we have to ask ourselves why we are hear.
MR. DOUGLASS : You can speak again later if your need to
(after the three-minute limit) .
Southold Town Board of Appeals -11- November 15 , 1979
MR. MADAS : All right. I think we have to ask ourselves why
we are here. We're here to ask a zoning appeal. If the peti-
tioner were to institute a :_.small shop with articles, a health
food store or something like that, there would be no need to be
here. Similarly, if a petitioner were to put this disco next to
a 24-hour a day rock crushing operation, I think much to the
opposition of this proposed disco would also disappear: But we
also have to ask ourselves why we moved out here. We moved out
here for one thing, we moved out here for a certain amount of
tranquility, for a rural lifestyle that we couldn' t get further
in towards New York City, and I feel. that with this proposed
disco we would be importing many of the problems from New York
City out here. We already have many of the problems out here.
I recently had a friend of mine stop over my house asking me
how I liked the area, I said I liked it very much, he said he �v
had spent many years on the south shore, in Southampton, East
Hampton, visiting discos down there, but now that he' s married W
and has two children his attitude has changed and he has changed n
his attitudes because he ' s looking for a family place in which z
to bring up his children. I too am a high school teacher. I
work full time as a high school teacher, and I can tell you that
liquor and children are a dangerous combination. We should not
try to encourage alcoholic consumption by teenagers or by adults.
Alcoholism is a .problem in this Country. It is a problem not
only with children but with adults. We don' t need to encourage z
it in Southold Town. I also feel that the proposed location o
along Sound Avenue is right in the heart of a historic district.
Riverhead Town. has so declared it, it is so out here in Southold. n'
u1
It - is not in keeping with the character of the area. We are CO
concerned with the preservation of our farmlands; we're going
to see them further diminished. I heard someone discuss the
possibility or the fact that they are located no where near any ,
residential areas, we have Groton— Estates, an approved sub-
division of the Town of Southold which is expanding, going into
operation, off Cox Neck Lane. Therefore, we are concerned with
the preservation of the character of the surrounding community,
which is quiet,' residential. You're certainly not going to
encourage the purchase of homes nearby. What are you going to
encourage the purchase of? Another disco next door? Rock-
crushing operation, what are we going to have? There are cer-
tainly prohibited activities in the Town, and I would remind
the Zoning Appeals Board, Mr. Tasker in particular, that
Section 100-114 says that certain activities in the Town of
Southold will take place only with special permission, and our
Town Fathers, that preceded the present Town Board and the
present Zoning Appeals Board drew up that stipulation because
they saw that there were problems for certain activities. You
.are :. not allowed to operate a tannery in the Town of Southold
without special permission. You are not allowed to operate a
rock-crushing operation without special permission. You're not
allowed to operate a Slaugherhouse without special permission.
You are not allowed to operate a dance hall, or disco', maybe
they didn!t use the word in 1958 when they drew up the origi-
nal zoning rules but that' s what we 're faced with today. I do
Southold Town Board of Appeals -12- November 15, 1979
believe, therefore, it would adversely affect the welfare and.
order of the entire community, the Town Zoning Appeals Board
knows well its purpose under Section 100-121 (C) it says that
the safety, health, welfare, comfort, and order of the Town
will not be adversely affected by the proposed use. Also -the
conservation and .property values being encouraged under the
most appropriate uses of land. And the availability of ade-
quate and proper public or public water supply is also a ques-
tion for concern here. And particularly- I bring to the Town
Zoning Appeal Board' s attention, in Section 100-121, Part II,
subparagraph f, it says whether. the use will cause disturbing
emissions of electrical discharges, dust, light, vibration
or noise, petitioner recently said that his d.i.sco was tested
at 115 DB at one foot from the speaker. I have to believe, :I
don't know, but I would. assume ,that this was an empty hall,
an empty building, if we add to that .combination of people 7d
talking, etcetera, you should be aware of the fact that sound H
is an accumulative thing, and that it adds. And that an 10 n
DB increase is like a doubling of a sound. When you go- from
40 to 50 DB, you don't have a 20% increase in sound, you have
doubling the sound. It ' s a logarithmic .scale. To go from
100 to 110 you've again doubled it. The sound level with my ro
voice right now is around 55 decibels, 50 decibels. If I go
to 65 decibels, you notice it. You go to 75 decibels, and.. H
you're in a factory. It ' s doubling it, every time you go up o
10 DB. I would also ask whether the Town Board has taken a
look at the 620 signatures on the petition and checked whether N
those people are actually residents of the Town of Southold. cn
co
I believe I 've spoken more than the three minutes. I reserve
the right to speak later.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Is anybody else desiring to be
heard?
STANLEY SEPKO: I've been at the last meeting and I
believe .I heard one of the partners say there- that the near-
est is approximately a mile away-
AUDIENCE: Quarter of a mile.
MR. SEPKO: Well I have something to say, that we live
right next door to it and Mr. Perricone says he' s going to
. control the clientele that coming to his place. I wish to
point out here before the Board that that man had no control
over himself or his corporation, not until last week had he
had the .buildozer come down here and clear the lot so you
could tell what was on his premises. Now how is he going
to control people coming in and out and especially where they
close a place - on the south side, they are going to go to his
place. And I can say one thing,.. once he is allowed to open
that place up he will have- the same thing they had in New'
York; on the south side and even worse possibly because he' s
going to have the kids theee in .the daytime to distribute
what the people at night left there.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -13- November 15, 1979
c_
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Is there anybody else wishing to
speak further against this?
MR. GLICKMAN: Mr. Glickman of Corwin and Glickman, Green-
port and I represent Mary Pylko, mother of Stanley Sepko. Now,
I have never yet to see where a person coming in who is 18 and
not 23 , 19 , 20 is going to be kept back. Everybody' s in business
for their money and I don't blame the man, he wants.:-to make 'money
just like everybody else, but we have here a problem. A two-fold
problem: I couldn't understand when the man says he is going to
have room for 99 people, "x" number of seats for the people.
What happens to the people that come in and stand, he could have
50 more coming in, or 60 or 40. Somebody just said 100 . Will
his parking area take care of that? No, because they don' t come
one in a car or two in a car. They come 5 and 6, and when they
pi,le . in ' there you're going to have yourself some trouble. Number
two, that is. on. an. ending of. a four-lane highway, it' s truck H
traffic through Sound Avenue there. Now, there is a tremendous n
amount of traffic in the afternoons when children from 12 to 17 z
go, and there . is -traffic at night,- too. There' s no more back
road that I took to Riverhead years ago and got there when there
ho
was no one in .the way. You start out today from Riverhead, you b
find traffic. You go to Riverhead, you find traffic . And Number
two, let no one forget that there is no bartender or no owner H
who will say, "Hey, cut him off, He' s drunk. " Let's look in z
this week's paper and see what happened to a driver, DWI, killed o
a woman and sent•the 'rest to the hospital, three or four people.
Now, I could see them opening up a .brickyard there. He ' s got Ln
aluminum sidings,. he-' s got cesspools digging, he`s, got fences, co
Yeah a brickyard would bean excellent thing to go along -with it,
but to put. a disco and a bar, no restaurant, in other words you
come in on. an empty stomach and drink. All you need is two. You
leave, you had too much. Car going west or a car going east,
whichever way you wanted to turn, you might have the same thing
that happened up Southold, in Greenport, right outside of Green,
port. Take that into consideration, and how .in the -world can we:,-
allow an area to have sheds, three businesses and everything else
all in one clamoration. It doesn 't make sense. The final step
is, Mr. Chairman, that controlling a disco even in the afternoon
for 12 to 17 ' s, am I going to allow my 12-year old to go in there?
Who is going to dhperone him? Who ' s going to watch a 17-year old
who ' s got a bottle in his pocket and fills his cup half coca-cola
and half something or other; •whiskey, scotch, rye, anything else.
There aren' t going to be any monitors there like you have in
school or anywhere else. It' s a wonderful thing if you're going
to fed them and give -them milk chocolate, like somebody said,
oh, coca-cola. Give them milk chocolates. I don't think that
a disco belongs there. I don' t think it will add anything to
the Town of Southold. I 'm not a Mattituck resident, I 'm a
Greenport resident. I don ' t. think it' ll do anything for Mat-
tituck, Greenport or anywhere else. Thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anybody else wishing to speak
against this?
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -14- November 15, 1979
MRS. CAFFREY: We live approximately 2500 feet from the pro-
posed disco. And I have a few questions to ask and a few com-
ments to make. First of all, I haven't had the privilege of knowing
who you people are and where you live.
MR. DOUGLASS : We're the Board of Appeals.
MRS . CAFFREY: I know that. What' s your name?
MR. DOUGLASS : Robert Douglass, Orient.
MR.- TUTHILL: I !m Terry Tuthill and I 've lived in Mattituck
all my life.
MRS . CAFFREY: I know that. y
ro
ro
MR. TUTHILL: And I 'm just as concerned about these things as
anyone. r
z
MR. DOUGLASS: And Serge Doyen, Fishers Island. Charlie O
Grigonis, Southold.
N'
Ul
MRS . CAFFREY: Thank you very much. I don't mean to be offen- co
sive in asking you-it' s just that I know to whom I am speaking. I
would like to comment on a few statements that were made. First of
all, in the beginning there were some statements made relative to Fd
the hours of operation, and there were specifics mentioned with
reference to the time at which the young people would be allowed H
to attend. Young people being 12 to' 17 .year olds. One of the times o
that was mentioned was- Friday- evenings. My question is, at that
time would this place of operation be closed to adults on a Friday
evening for all intents and purposes as far as alcoholic beverages
are concerned?
MR. PERRICONE: Yes it will be.
MRS . CAFFREY: The same applies to Sunday, and to the extended
hours during the summertime, that there would be no adults present
at, the time of 12 to 17 year - olds?
MR. PERRICONE: Well, there will be adults outside of three
partners and to two people at the door who will be adults I would
imagine, they will be in- their 301s. The two people serving soft
drinks. - _
MRS . CAFFREY: And at that time there would be no alcoholic
beverages available?
MR. PERRICONE: Definitely not. They won't even be on the bar.
MRS . CAFFREY: And if I came to your place at that time I
couldn't get in?
MR. PERRICONE: You couldn't get in. It has to be locked up
by law. You can't even have it out where it' s in sight. It has to
Southold Town Board of Appeals -15- November 15 , 1979
.a
be locked in a cabinet.
MRS . CAFFREY: Another question has to do with, of course, this
would affect your income, I 'm sure, considerably closing on a Friday
evening, which is a busy time. Another question has to do with the
fact of a dress code. The last pair of 'dungarees I bought was Gloria
Vanderbilt at a price of 50 some odd dollars. I was wondering if you
would turn me out with those very expensive dungarees on?
MR. PERRICONE: No. Let me clarify dress code. As far as
women go, Gloria Vanderbilt clothes they can wear all they want.
MRS . CAFFREY: Are you going to check them?
MR. PERRICONE: Am I going to check what?
MRS . CAFFREY: That they aren't just wearing Wrangler. H
0
MR. PERRICONE: Any design of jeans will be allowed on women
only.
MRS. CAFFREY: So you will allow dungarees?
a
MR. PERRICONE: On women only, yes. This is a normal disco
dress. o
MRS. CAFFREY: It' s ok. I just wanted to clarify the thoughts N
that were in my mind. Another point that was made and in all due cn
co
respect to the people that were saying the comments and I have no -.1
malice toward any of them. It .was quoted as going to be a very high-
class establishment. There is nobody that likes to go to a high-class
establishment more than I do with my husband. If . I were going to go
to• one, it -would not be one that was tied to and a part of a potato
house, fence establishment and. a waste organization, however you_ call
it. I would prefer to not call it a high-class establishment, and I
t hink that has something to do with the aesthetic values that we are
putting forth in terms of putting this place into existence. And
let me; say .another word about aesthetic values. Our place of resi-
dence, as I' said, is about 2500 feet from this proposed disco . We
happen to be in a very, very old farmhouse which unfortunately when
it was built, it was place about four feet from the road. Over a
period of time we felt that we were living in a fish bowl and we
chose to put up a length of about 50 feet of stockade fencing, sim-
ply to protect us from people driving by and looking into our
kitchen and telling us what we were eating. And when we proposed
to put this piece of fencing up, which was between two Cedar trees
we found that we couldn't because it was the astute opinion of the
Board at the time that this might disturb the aesthetic qualities
of the surrounding area. If the Board at the time was quite so
stringent with their decisions and their best opinion we- had to
go through this procedure, I would think that this might be another
point of consideration for you to keep in the back of your mind when
you make a decision on this one. I think another point that I
Southold Town Board of Appeals -16- November 15, 1979
would like to bring out is the fact that in terms of the only
people, many years ago I was associated with the Lutheran Church
in Mattituck as a Sunday- School teacher and I was also involved
in preparing and cooperating with various kinds of activities
that would allow them to have someplace to go. This has been
an age old problem where the young people go. To the- best of my
knowledge, there are five or six churches in the area, and
while I would certainly not force that concept on anyone, I
know that every single one of them has made plans and -would hope
that the young people in that congregation will avail themselves
of all the activities and should be older young people if they
felt so inclined, the churches would welcome them with open arms_
in terms of a group or committee to cooperate for the purposes
of extending the kinds -of activities, and if disco essentially
is a place to go and a place with a certain kind of music and a �
certain kind of conviviality, there is no reason why you can't �y
have it since you're not going to have alcoholic beverages in a H
church ,building, basement or whatever. I think also I might want o
to say-that most of us who are here probably in my age group and
older have a feeling of desperation. In the sense that I have
lived in that house for some 27 years. I have gone through a
period of time when I had a babysitter who was taking care of my
children while I was going to school or doing whatever I was doing m
and at times her father had to come down to my house with a shot-
gun accompanied by police cars because people who were coming from z
the Apple Tree and various other establishments located close
enough were banging on the door, they were lost, they wanted to
perhaps join whoever was in the house, for whatever reason. Those U1
of us who live near to this proposed establishment are very conCO
-
cerned. Those of us who live farther away are also concerned for
other reasons . I have very strong feelings about this. Many
years ago I worked in the Mattituck Schools as a teacher, a full-
time teacher, and I was part of a committee that was going to sit
in on 'the discussion as to whether or not we wanted to change the
face of our community. And at .that time we had a group of people
from New' York State who- came down to look at the Town, and they
looked at it and they said,This is a very nice colonial-type town.
What you should do is, • you've just built a 3-1/2 million dollar
bank. What you should do is, you should clean up your Town, you
should close up the windows in the bottoms of the stores on Pike
Street. You should paint all the faces of the buildings white
and you will attract more people. " There must have been 40 of
the businessmen of the Town that listened to this, and their answer
was, and Mr. DePetris at the time was the spokesman and, Terry, you
will remember Nardy. He said"I intended to continue to let the
rats crawl through my basement, and I intend to paint my storefront
black, because I like the complexion of our Town as it is. We don't
need to have additional trains. Wecbn 't need to have additional
people. " We don't want to become a southside, where when the summer
residents come and the group has arrived, they drive through the
streets and they knock down your mailboxes. They drive in your
house. They burn up your furniture for heat and so on. Granted
maybe this is a little bit maybe off the topic, but I can foresee
that in a period of time it' s this kind of a decision that' s made
Southold Town Board of Appeals -17- November 15, 1979
when it will be most detrimental to our community and it' s present,
presence, if you will, of tranquility and decency.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, ma 'am. Is anybody else wishing to
speak against this? You had your turn for this minute, is there
anybody else new speaking against?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
MR. DOUGLASS : If not, I will open it up to the general floor.
If there is anybody else who hasn't spoken that would like to at
this time, may.
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : All right, sir. You may have the floor again.
H
MICHAEL MADAS : We 've heard a lot of discretion this evening o
of proposed hours of operation, and I 'd like to ask Mr. Tasker, is z
there anything in the Town Zoning Ordinance that would permit the
Town to regulate hours of operation?
MR. TASKER: No. Only except the Board has the authority to
impose such reasonable conditions as they deem appropriate.
z
MR. MADAS : If they deemed them appropriate in this case,
would they be forced to impose them on similar establishments in
the Town? uN,
co
MR. TASKER: Well, that' s a question for the Board. It' s a
hypothetical question.
MR. MADAS : ,It' s a legal question, Mr. Tasker.
MR. TASKER: No it isn't and I 'm not going to argue with you.
MR. MADAS : Well I 'm simply asking a question that I thought
perhaps—
MR. TASKER: The Board has the authority to impose conditions.,
and T 'll leave it at that.
MR. MADAS : So it' s up to the Town Board to impose hours of
operation, and I don't think any such proposal is , and I don't
think the Town Board is considering any such proposal.
MR. TASKER: It ' s not the Town Board. It' s. the Board of
Appeals .
MR. MADAS : Is the Board of Appeals considering any restricted
hours of operation?
MR. DOUGLASS : This will all be taken up in our discussion,
and in our decision.
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -18- November 15 , 1979
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anyone else wishing to speak?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
MR. DOUGLASS : If not, I will thank all of you for your tH
testimony. We .have to ask Mr. Perricone and his partners to I'd
go back before the Planning Board and have the Planning Board
either okay the parking that- you suggest, or suggest a parking z
schedule. We will recess this until we get that notice back y
from you, at which time we will set a time of decision. We
also need in our possession papers showing your legal possession «d
or lease, or whatever involvement with the properties. -
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, 0
it was 0
RESOLVED, that the matter of STEPHEN J. PERRICONE and sr
PENELOPE KOUSOUROS, Appeal No. 2587 , be RECESSED until the
applicants obtain Planning Board approval of the proposed z
0
parking plan, at 'which time a date will be scheduled to recon-
vene this matter.
- Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Tuthill, Doyen
and Grigonis .
Contining on the above appeal, several discussions were had.
Ln
Mr. Tuth=iil 'thanked the audience for their courtesy, good-manners; .00•
attention and seriousness of the remarks. Mr. Tuthill said the
behavior of the audience is to be admired and that- hearings should
be dealt in the same fashion more often.
j Mr. Perricone asked why the parking plan submitted to the
Board of Appeals was not appropriate, and Mr. Tasker and Mr. Doug-
lass explained that it was not to scale, and that it would be a
good idea for the applicants to clarify which parking spaces were
for which businesses on the property and that it should be to
scale in accordance with the provisions of the Zoning Code when
submitting it to the Planning Board for their approval.
x
0
z
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No. 2579. Application of p
EMANUEL M. KONTOKOSTA, 26 Court Street, Brooklyn, New York (Rich-- N
and F . Lark, Esq. ,-Main Road, Cutchogue, NY 11935) for a Special y
Exception to the Zoning Ordinance, Article V, Section 100-50 for y
permission to erect a 28-unit apartment complex with 21 motel >1
units and coffee shop. Location of property: Shipyard Lane, East. to
Marion, New York; bounded north and west• by, Parkside Heights Co. , m
east by Shipyard Lane, south by Gardiners Bay.
The Acting Chairman reconvened the hearing at 8 :57 P.M. o
N
U7
J
Southold Town Board of Appeals -19- November 15, 1979 ,
MR. DOUGLASS: I reopen the hearing, by going back to Mr.
Kontokosta ' s attorney, Mr. Lark.
RICHARD F. LARK: Mr. Douglass , on. . August 20th, 1979
Board of Appeals wrote me, and this was after we determined that
the Board of Appeals would be the lead agency in this matter and
requested the following information: subdivision approval from
the Town of Southold Planning Board. The public hearing on the
minor subdivision was held last night, and as of this moment to
my knowledge the Board has not rendered a decision on. it, ok?
That was the first one. The Board of Health approval - they
have seen the preliminary plans and asked for a, re-design of the
sewage system and also they wanted test holes dug, and I under-
stood that one was dug but the inspector didn't show up and it' s .
waiting for the inspection out there. And so that' s the second xo
item that you requested. The, third item was, the Department of z
Environmental Conservation and environmental impact statement. 1-3
Now as I understand it, the Department of Environmental Conserva- N
tion has the matter before it, and they have to come up with a M
determination as to whether or not it' s - a minor -or a major F3
project under their regulations . Now if they come up with a
major project, then a formal environmental impact statement
will have to be filed both with them and with you as the lead
agency in the situation. If they come up with a minor, it' s a P
minor project, then they will give what recommendations, what
input to the Board since you are the lead agency and under the o
Act as I understand it an environmental impact statement is not
required. So they have not made that determination, the Board
of Health, the Department of Health hasn't made a final approval �
which was what you wanted for the Special Exception, and we �
haven't received the formal approval from the Planning Board
for the subdivision. So these will all take a little bit of
time, and so I 'm going to respectfully request, depending on
your hearing agenda, that, this is the middle of November, that
it probably be put off some time toward the middle of January,
which would be about 60 days away. I think I can have all of
those approvals or determinations from those agencies which you
request by that time. t
MR: DOUGLASS : All right, sir. That would be the first
meeting in January.
MR. LARK,: • That would be fine. Whenever that would fall,
I think we would have everything by then.
MR. DOUGLASS : We 've probably some people in the audience
here that would maybe like to say a few words on this applica-
tion. With them here I would hate to have them go home and not
be able to say something, so we will grant anybody that desires .
to be heard on this application say it now. Is there anybody
desiring to make a statement? Yes, sir?
ANGE PANAGOPOULOS : Mr. Douglass, the last meeting, your-
self you asked Mr. Kontokosta about the subdivision.. When will
Southold Town Board of Appeals -20- November 15 , 1979
he subdivide. And he said, "I don't know. Now we hear from
the counsellor that last night the Planning Board was going to
subdivide that land. I mean, it doesn 't jive. He said that
he bought the place and it was subdivided. And the other guy
was Parkside Incorporated. And he didn't know even who was
Parkside Incorporated. All of a sudden now we hear , you know,
that last night he' s going for a subdivision. It' s a little
bit sinister, from the0beginning. Thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thaik you. Is there anybody else wishing to
say something?
MR. ARMSTRONG: Where can we see, my name is Armstrong,
where . can we see a copy of the plans and what they intend to
do with that? o
z
MR. DOUGLASS : In our office, sir. Any day from 9 to 4 , 00
Monday through Friday. Mr. Armstrong, what' sayourfull name? xo
MR. ARMSTRONG: Harry. Could we get a photostat copy there F-3
of the plans that they intend to do and the usage of it?
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : Yeah. ro
m
. N
MR. ARMSTRONG: I think it involves two pieces of our
property. o
MR. DOUGLASS : Yeah, but you will have to pay for the costs. Ln
N
Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
MARIE SMITH: I 'm Marie Smith from East Marion and I was
here last night, and we were very puzzled last night and what
we asked was, why does this have to be subdivided if the intent
tonight is to build 28 units and 21 units, and who is Parkside
Heights, because we saw a very important piece of property that
was part of -the subdivision appeal last night, and it touches
on Mr. Kontokosta' s property. Is he Parkside Heights, Mr. Lark?
MR. LARK: No.
MRS . SMITH: Some people say he is, and some say he isn't.
We keep getting different answers. , We !re just curious.
MR. LARK: The answer is no.
MARY GREGORY: We were told yesterday or the. day before
yesterday that-
MR., DOUGLASS : Ma'am? Would you please give your name to
the steno. Please do not talk across the hall:
MARY GREGORY: Mary Gregory, I 'm through.
q
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -21- November 15 , 1979
MRS.. .SMITH: I think what most of these people want to know is,
why if we want to know what' s going on do we have - to go to two
hearings , the subdivision and the one for .building 28 units and
21?
MR. DOUGLASS : Ma'am, you don't have to go to any hearings,
but this is the way the law is written up. Certain. parts are
taken.-c,are of by the Planning Board and certain parts by the Zoning
Board.
MRS. SMITH: And as we were told last night, they really have
nothing to do mith this, so we just have to show up- and- they didn't
have to show up, is that it?
MR. DOUGLASS : I don't know what they said, ma'am. o
z
MR. ARMSTRONG: Excuse me, does somebody know what the variance
is for? Why do they need a variance? x
0
MR. DOUGLASS : It' s a Special Exception; it' s not a variance.
MR. ARMSTRONG: What is the Special Exception? ro
MR. DOUGLASS : Well, it' s zoned multiple dwelling right now, ,
'but- he.-wants to put in a motel section of it and a small coffee
shop. , o
MR. ARMSTRONjG: So he wants it commercial?
Ul
MR, DOUGLASS : Well, a multiple dwelling could be commercial too.
MR. DOUGLASS.: Is there anybody else?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
MR. DOUGLASS: If not-- Sir?
GORDON RACKETT: Gordon Rackett, Shipyard Lane, East Marion.
Most of my ' questions , I• think, `are' still unanswered because differ-
ent Boards and commissions and so forth haven't rendered a verdict
or a decision on what they're doing, but one thing that I hope that
you people keep in mind when you make a final decision, is the fact
that East Marion is very, very much over-burdened with hotels,
motels, taverns and so forth. . On a human side of it, we really
don't need any more here. _
MR. DOUGLASS : This is in Greenport territory.
MR. RACKETT: No, it' s East Marion fire district.
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anybody else wishing to speak? If
not, I will put a motion on the floor to recess this appeal till
the first meeting in January. r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -22- November 15 , 1979
0
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, o
it was x
0
M
RESOLVED, that the matter of EMANUEL M. KONTOKOSTA, Appeal '3
No. 2579 , be RECESSED until the first meeting in January of
this Board.
N
Ln
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen.
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No. 2598 . Application of Philip
A. WENZEL, Main Road, Peconic, New York 11958 , for a Variance ,
to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-31 for permis-
sion to subdivide with insufficient area. Location of property:
Main Road, Peconic, New York; bounded north by Main Road, east
by Koraleski, south by Leslie Road, west by Bujnowski.
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 9 : 05 P.M.
z
N
MR. DOUGLASS : This is for a division of a farm near Peconic.
I believe Mr. Cichanowicz , who is interested in it, is here. This
will have to be recessed again until December 6th because it will
have to be republished. V ll again say here if there is anybody
here wishing to give testimony on it, we will take it now.
RUDOLPH BRUER: I would just like to know why. Why does it o
have to be re published. This is an adjourned hearing.
MR. TASKER: The reason for it is that on the first recess Ul
they did not set a date to reconvene the hearing so that no one o
would know when the recessed hearing would convene, so therefore
they have to do that. It' s a question of legal notice.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. I ' ll make a motion that this
appeal be recessed until the December 6th meeting after proper
publication.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it
was
RESOLVED, that the matter of PHILIP A. WENZEL, Appeal No.
2598 be RECESSED until December 6 , 1979 after proper publication.
Vote of the Board: ' Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen.
H
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No. 2615. Application of MATTITUCK F3
HOLDING CO. , Mill Road, Mattituck, New York for a •Special Excep-
tion to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VIII, Section 100-80B (15) 0
- for permission to construct a boat storage shed. Location of d
N H
� z
Ul
0
0
Southold Town Board of Appeals -23- November 15 , 1979
property: West Mill Road, Mattituck, New York; bounded north by
Holmes & Killian, south by Foudy, Ziegler & •McGunnigle, west by y
Leo Grande and Inlet Lodge, Inc. , east by Mattituck Creek.
H
H
MR. DOUGLASS : At our last meeting, this was recessed because n
of an improper publication in one of the papers, therefore, it x
had to be re-published. We have had testimony on it. If there x
is any new testimony to come before us tonight, why we will accept o
it. Is there anybody. wishing to testify for it; if not, then r7
against it? The owners has supplied us with all the necessary z
papers. At this time we will postpone decision until the end
.of the hearings tonight.
ro
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it
was
z
RESOLVED, that the matter of MATTITUCK HOLDING CO. , Appeal
No. 2615 , be postponed its decision until the end of hearing the N
appeals tonight, at which. time a decision will be made. o,
Ul
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Douglass , Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen.
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No. 2613 . Application of KIWANIS x
CLUB OF SOUTHOLD, Box 150, Peconic, New York for a Special Excep-
tion to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-30B (4) for z
permission to place building for charity use in a residential H
district. Location .of property: Route 25 and Lower Road, South-
old, New York; bounded north by Lower Road, south and west by
Route 25 , east by Goldsmith. Cl�
The Acting Chairman reconvened the hearing at approximately o
9 :14 P.M,
MR. DOUGLASS : This was recessed for the same reason that y
Mattituck Holding Co. had to be, because of improper designation x
in one of the newspapers. And all the papers are in on it; and r
we have testimony on this, and if we have anyone further wishing tI
to give testimony, new testimony for this application may; if
not, against?
cD
(.THERE WAS NO RESPONSE . ) N
MR. DOUGLASS : If not, we will postpone decision in this one z
0
too until after we have continued and finished with the appeals
that are scheduled tonight.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was
RESOLVED, that the decision on the matter of KIWANIS CLUB
OF SOUTHOLD, Appeal No. 2613 , be POSTPONED UNTIL THE END OF
CONTINUING THE OTHER APPEALS SCHEDULED, TONIGHT.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -24- November 15, 1979
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass , Grigonis, Tuthill
and Doyen.
RECESSED,.%HEARING: Appeal No. 2609 . Application of ROBIN A.
RAEBURN and MARY ELIZABETH MURPHY, by George C. Stankevich, Esq. ,
Main- Road, Southold, New York, for a Variance for approval of
access , New York Town Law Section 280A. Location of property:
Bridge Lane Extension, Cutchogue., New York; bounded north by Long �
Island Sound, south by Bokina, west by Bokina and Baxter Proper- z
ties, east by Parr. z
t7
The Acting Chairman reconvened the hearing at approximately
9 :18 P .M. C!
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : This was recessed so that the people involved W
could go back and talk over and see what they could come :up with
a better situation on -the a=e-ss. At this time I will turn it 0'
over to Raeburn and Murphy' s representative. 110
(D
P)
GEORGE STANKEVICH: Yes, George Stankevich, and I represent
the applicant and we have acceded to your request and discussed o
it with the attorneys for Baxter, the property owner to the west,
and though we feel that' the . application as presented met the
letter of . the law; we have reached an understanding with Baxter
that they would permit the relocation of the right-of-way from .
Oregon Road to the head of the bluffs onto Baxter' s land. We
do not have this in executed, final form yet; however, we see
no problem. So if you want grant us approval tonight, we would
accede to the condition that: (1) access by a 15-foot right-of-way
from Oregon Road should be on lands of Baxter to the west of.
Bokina, • and that that right-of--way should be in recordable form
acceptable to the Town Attorney; (2) that the entire access to
these lots shall be improved to your standards; (3) that we
will investigate the complaint of Bokina as to the mis-location
of utilities and if they are mis-located we will re-align them,
and then (4) if due to some unforeseen circumstance we are unable
to comply with these conditions, we would then return to you for
further instructions.
MR: DOUGLASS : Is there anybody here representing Baxter?
GAIL WICKHAM: Yes, Mr. Chairman, Gail Wickham, and I
represent Mr. Baxter. We are 'in the process of doing some
survey work and drawing up an agreement which would permit• the
roadway on Mr. Baxter' s 20-foot strip; however, until we complete
the survey work, get a signed agreement I also feel I have to
approach the Planning Board on a few matters in connection with
his property. I can 't say that we have anything final but we
certainly. hope to have an agreement that would come into this
roadway.
MR. DOUGLASS : At the time of the last meeting, I. asked Mr.
Bokina to go back and talk things over with his family. Did you
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -25- November 15, 1979
come up with anything?
MR. BOKINA: I 'm not going to move my house and barn. We
lived there for 36 years, why should we move it. For 36 years
we had no problem with the right-of-way, now, how come all of
a sudden we 've got a problem with the right-of-way. What' s the
problem? There was no problem before.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir.
MR. BOKINA: They still have no right-of-way up to those
properties.
MR. DOUGLASS : ' Well, is . there anybody else wishing to
testify on this appeal for or against?
t�
THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. ) by
C
MR. DOUGLASS : I , I don't know how the rest of the members z
feel, but I feel that probably the best thing to do is recess z
this once again until the attorney for Raeburn and Murphy and ty
the attorney for Baxter can come back to us with a legal ocu-
ment that they're trying to draw up. I would therefore make W
that a motion. - , Fd
z
1-14
;MR. STANKEVICH: Would there be discussion on the motion?
rd
MR. DOUGLASS : Yes, you may say- something. (D
P)
N
NCR; STANKEVICH As attorney for the applicant, I would z
object to that. You may have the. right to do so, but we're o
.really in a chicken and egg situation. Namely, until you decide
that this arrangement would be acceptable, we are negotiating
with .an adjoining land owner in good faith, but he may really o
not want to go to the effort, and number two, the Planning. Board 1°
is waiting to find out whether this access is acceptable so that
they could handle their part of it. So we would request that
you approve it subject to the conditions and then let us go out
and meet those conditions. And your Town Attorney will look at
the agreement when it comes in, and of course if it doesn 't meet
it,' we 're dead. We have to get it under way.
MR. TASKER: It is my understanding that you applied for
access over a right-of-way a certain width, and now it turns out
that in fact the bed of that right-of-way is blocked by buildings
which makes it completely unpassable or at least reduces the
width of the right-of-way to make it inadequate in width for the
use intended. Now as I also understand, both the attorneys here
representing the applicant on one hand and the neighboring prop-
erty owner on the other hand are attempting to work out an
arrangement to relocate the right-of-way around these buildings.
We do not know where. You haven't agreed on where it' s going to
be, and I think it would be a little premature at this time to
approve something that they have not seen, that has never been
agreed •to, •and I believe that it' s proper to recess until there
Southold Town Board of Appeals -26- November 15, 1979
t
is, a legally passable right-of-way that i•a presented to the Board.
MR. STANKEVICH: My statement though Mr. Tasker was not that
it was improper or proper to, take the action suggested by Mr.
Douglass. :. What was suggested was that the Board conditionally give
approval and• as ' indicated in the prior hearings where you were not
present, and since we cannot hold you accountable for what you
didn't hear, Mr. Douglass ' . suggestion was that the entire right-
of-way leading from Oregon- be relocated on Mr. Baxter' s property
until .it, gets to the head of 'the property, the subject lots, and
that' s what! s intended with" our negotiations.
MR. TASKER: That ' s what you're irtending.to relocate the whole
length of the right-of-way. from the street?
MRS. WICKHAM: Mr. Baxter owns a 20-foot strip, owns it in. ,
fee simple all the way .up, and up to the point where his property C
spreads out, we would:_.be. willing to let them have a right-of-way z
to put the road in on 'that property.
J z
MR. STANKEVICH: It' s ,where it forks at the 'top. t7
MRS . WICKHAM: But. as I say, '-we 're still in the process of
it,t and nothing has been finalized.
MR. STANKEVICH: So, it would' be helpful really to the
parties and the Planning Board to get, at least a tentative
approval and then we will go forward. We'•'llfbring the documents m
t o you. If the.y!re unacceptable, fine.
MR. TASKER: Well`, how- far north is it, going? o
MR. STANKEVICH: Right to the head, where they, branch--
a
MRS. WICKHAM: Do you have the .map with you, I. don't have it. 10
MR. STANKEVICH: No, I don't.
MR. TASKER: All the way up to the lots?..
MR. DOUGLASS: Right to there.
MR. TASKER: You're just going to move it 20 feet to the west.
To the Baxter property. ,
MRS. WICKHAM: Yeah. It .would go up along this 20-foot strip
and then swing -over Bokina' s. property. He would probably put this
road in here.
MR. STANKEVICH: The impediment, if any, is right down here.
MR. TASKER: You have no objection to, a conditional approval..? ,, .,
MRS. WICKHAM: No, it doesn't bind us. I mean, . if wec_',don't--
r
Southold Town Board of Appeals -27- November 15, 1979
MR. DOUGLASS : When they go into the Planning Board, and the
Planning Board says that this stuff may develop and this road may
not be wide enough, --
MRS . WICKHAM: My problem is, he wants to put a minor up
here, and I just want to go to the Planning Board with a minor
subdivision approval which if we do put a 15-foot road up here,
or a 20-foot they might require-
MR. TASKER: You might be required more.
MRS . WICKHAM: Well, we don't have any more.
MR. DOUGLASS : You have some right-of-way here.
MR. STANKEVICH: Fifteen feet.
bd
G
MR. DOUGLASS: That' s clear of the buildings, so you can tie z
them together.
MR. STANKEVICH: Except we 're .only going to pave 15 feet. ty
MR. TASKER: The question is really how many lots can be
served with a 20-foot right-of-way. x
MRS. WICKHAM: That ' s why I don't want a new road in here--
MR. STANKEVICH: I 'm going to sit back because that' s our w
application.
MRS . WICKHAM: Until I go to the Planning Board. I don 't 0
want to prejudice him.
N
0)
MR. TASKER: Probably the better thing to do would be to C
recess it.
MRS. WICKHAM: I 'm not going to take any position on that.
If you want--to do it that way, it doesn't matter to me. I just
feel• I have -to go to the Planning Board.
MR. STANKEVICH: The better way is to get a conditional
so we have something to go to: the Planning Board, and then if we
have problems , we ' ll have to come back. But it' s one step for-
ward and many to come.
MR. BOKINA: My father owned that farm, then I farmed it,
we 've had it for 36 years. Mr. Baxter never put no chain across
that place,- I think we 're entitled to swat-,his rights against our
farm. - ,He'-s got a 20-foot right-of-way.
MR. DOUGLASS : All right, we 've got a motion on the floor
to recess it until we get the proper legal papers from the two
attorneys.
Mr. Stankevich asked that his objection be made part of
the records.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -28- November 15, 1979
MRS . WICKHAM: I would like to do this as soon as possible.
t�
Could you put it down for the next hearing? m
Q
MR. DOUGLASS : December 6th. z
MRS . WICKHAM: Would that be convenient? Thank you. 14
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it ro
was x
FC
RESOLVED, that the matter of the application of ROBIN A. N
RAEBURN and MARY ELIZABETH MURPHY be RECESSED until the Decem- o
ber '.-6 , 1979 meeting of this Board. 19
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen.
RECESSED HEARING: Appeal No. 2629 . Application of RALPH H.
DICKINSON, by Abigail A. Wickham, Esq. , Main Road, Mattituck,
New York 11952 , for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article n
III, Section 100-30 for permission to construct dwelling with z
insufficient front and side yard setbacks . Location of property:
Off Peconic Bay Boulevard, Laurel, New York; bounded north by. 0
z
, Heck- and Graham, south by Great Peconic Bay, west by McDowell,
east by Arthur. b
ro
The Acting Chairman reconvened the hearing at 9 :26 P.M.
MRS. WICKHAM: I spoke to Linda this afternoon and asked z
0
that you recess that--
MR. DOUGLASS : Yes , well we have to bring it up and you N
have to request a recess . Q0
MRS . WICKHAM: We 've revised our plans to move. the house
back and re-angle it so that perhaps a sideyard variance will
not be..required. Mr. VanTuyl has drawn a sketch of a revised
right-of-way into the property and we are in contact with Mr.
McDowell ' s attorney to come to an agreement on the right-of-way
so that we may or may not have, require Board of Appeals approval
but we will notify you as soon as we have reached an agreement
on the right-of-way.
MR. DOUGLASS : So you want it recessed rather than
withdrawn.
MRS . WICKHAM: Yes, at this point I think we should recess it,
to, I think December 6th would be a good date.
MR: TUTHILL: At that time you might withdraw, is that the
point?
MRS . WICKHAM: Possibly, although we still would have the
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -29- November 15 , 1979
right-of-way technically, I think, from the side from the west side, l
so we may have to request a variance but technically that would be
the front yard. d
n
MR. DOUGLASS : Yeah, but it comes up to the north of the build- H
ing. rA
0
MRS . WICKHAM: It comes on the north side, yeah. z
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : So that where it comes down towards the home it
will be on the north side.
MRS . WICKHAM: What I plan to do, when we have the agreement, o
we will submit. it to Mr. Fisher and if he can issue a building per-
mit, then I will apply to withdraw the application.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, ma'am. I ' ll make a motion that this
be recessed then until our next-meeting on December 6th.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, it
was
RESOLVED, that the matter of RALPH H. DICKINSON, Appeal No.
2629 be RECESSED until the December 6, 1979 meeting of .this Board.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis , Doyen
and Tuthill.
r
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2630 . Application of EILEEN M.
LEMBECK, 447 Greene Avenue, Sayville, New York, for a Variance to
the Zoning Ordinance, Article III , Section 100-31. for permission x
to construct dwelling with insufficient rearyard setback. Location
o�. property: Deerfoot Path, Cutchogue, 'New York; bounded north by
-Fitzpatrick, east by Deerfoot Path, south by Jester, west by Leskody. o
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 9 : 30 P .M. by reading
the application for a variance, legal notice of hearing and affi- o
davits attesting to its publication in the local and official news-
papers, Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector., and N
letter . from the Town Clerk that- notification to adjoining property w
owners was made to: Mr. and Mrs. Burris T. Jester, Mr. and Mrs. C�
Stephen F. Leskody, Mr. and Mrs. James J. Fitzpatrick; fee 'paid _
$15. 00 .
MR. DOUGLASS : We have a sketch showing the applicant' s
proposal and a copy of the County Tax Map showing this and the
surrounding properties. . Is there anybody wishing to speak for
this application?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
MR. DOUGLASS: Is there anybody wishing to speak against this
application?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
Southold Town Board of Appeals -30 November 15 , 1979
MR. DOUGLASS : Being no further testimony, we will close
this hearing and I will make a motion to reserve decision on
this until all the other appeals tonight have been heard.
n
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, x
it was
ro
ro
RESOLVED, that the matter of EILEEN M. LEMBECK, 447 Greene o
Avenue, Sayville, New York, Appeal No. 2630 be RESERVED ITS ~'
DECISION until later this evening when the other appeals have
been heard.
w
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, CD
11
Tuthill and Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2631. Application of JANET
HALVERSON, c/o A. Tyrrell, Box 14 , Orient, New York 11957 , for
a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-31
for permission to construct dwelling with insufficient sideyards.
Location of property: Founders Path, Southold, filed Map #834 , .
Lot #67 ; bounded north by Diana, south by Tempel, east by Shanks , . � r
west by Founders Path. >
C
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 9 : 35 P.M. by
reading the application for a variance, legal notice of hearing p
and affidavits attesting to its publication in the local and z
official newspapers, Notice of Disapproval from the Building >
Inspector; and letter from the Town Clerk that notification to S
adjoining property owners was made to: Charlotte Shanks, (D
Tempel, and S. Diana; fee paid $15. 00 .' ►P)-
z
MR. DOUGLASS : We have a copy of the survey showing the o
applicant' s proposal and a copy of the County Tax Map showing
the surrounding properties. Is there anyone wishing to speak a
for this application? W
ARTHUR TYRRELL: Hardships would be created if this were
not granted at this time. It is unusual now for mortgages to
be granted because--
MR. DOUGLASS: Excuse me, would you give your name to the
steno please?
MR. TYRRELL: Sorry. My name is Arthur Tyrrell and I 'm
speaking on behalf of Janet Halverson, and there is one addi-
tion I would like make for the hardships stated in the appli-
cation. Since that application has been filed, a mortgage has
been granted; a mortgage had been applied for before the appli-
cation was filed and it has . been granted. I think it is
accepted that mortgages are very difficult to obtain at. this
time of high increasing interest rates. If there is any great
change to' the plans, then it would have to be resubmitted to
..the bank who may or may not then give another mortgage, in
which case Mrs. Halverson would not be able to build. Even if
.Southold Town Board of Appeals -31- November 15 , 1979
they did, the builder states that the price quoted for that
building would necessarily have to increase because of labor
and lumber costs increasing. Therefore, this would again.
sustain a great financial hardship to Mrs. Halverson if this
is not granted at this time. Thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else
wishing to speak for this application? Is anybody wishing to
speak against this application?
ERNEST TEMPLE: My name is Ernest Temple, and my home is
right next to this lot. This lot has been sold twice in the
last two years, so, therefore, when anybody buys a lot cer-
tainly they know what the restrictions are and I don't see
why a person wouldn't first look at the lot and then draw the x
plans. Now I don't know what this variance, how much is it, ti
10 feet, 2 feet, I know nothing about it because nobody told
me. What are the sidelines going to be if it' s granted.
0
MR. DOUGLASS : Well what they are asking for seven on your z
side and 12 on the other side.
MR. TEMPLE: That' s absolutely ridiculous . When that
house was built, I bought the house-I didn't build it, more
than 15 years ago this variance for land was 15 and 10, and z
that was built with 10 and 5. There ' s more than that for that
house now. It ' s more than 10 and 5 . If it' s only 7-1/2 feet
how do they get a piece of machinery between my property and C)
their house to do any grading, to do any work around it plus W
N
the fact that there may be , a drainage problem. The front of
the lot' is four feet higher than the back of the lot. If it' s
not graded properly, the waters are going to run into my
property. So, . I can't see-- it would set a precedent. There ' s
a lot on the other side with the same width. So they may be
asking for the same thing, and the next thing you know we 're
squashed:-in. I can't see why the restrictions should be changed
at the present time. They've been there and the people bought
the lot with that knowledge. Also the owners knew that.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else?
MR. DIANA: I 'm Diana to the north of them. I agree with
what Mr. Temple said. They knew the size of the lot, why build
a house exceeding the size of the lot? I 'm gonna benefit by it
because they're going to have 12 feet on my side, and I have more
ground than Erny has. If there's going to be any difference and
you're going to grant them that variance, can't they reverse them
and give him 12 and put seven on my side? I wouldn 't object to
that, if it came to that. But I object to their building beyond
the- building code.
MR. DOUGLASS : Would you rather have it that way (Mr. Tyrrell) ?
MR. DIANA: I have more ground than he has and more width.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -32- November 15 , 1979
I wouldn't like to see him getting closed in.
MR. DOUGLASS: You have probably about 20 feet or better, right?
MR. DIANA: A little more than 20 feet. I have a 100-footer,
and I only built 50 feet on a 100. Now they want to build 56 , isn't
that right?
MR. DOUGLASS : Right.
MR. DIANA: Fifty-six and 75. Now they knew the size of the
lot. Why didn 't they get drawings to coincide with , the size of the
lot? Why change the rules. There ' s no hardship there. There ' s
no hardship that I can see. 50 feet, or 56 feet, there ' s not much
difference. I shrunk my house.
MR. DOUGLASS : I thank you. Is there anybody else wishing to
testify against this appeal?
0
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. ) z
MR. DOUGLASS : If not, I 'll make a motion that this hearing
be closed, and to reserve the decision-
MR. TYRRELL; May I have the rebuttal, Mr. Chairman? o
MR. DOUGLASS : Yes, sir. N
rn
MR. TYRRELL: Mr. Temple ' s house is in distinct violation
of the present day requirements. There ' s no doubt about this ,
.and the fact that he doesn't know is Mr. Temple ' s thought. Mr.
Diana knows both by certified mail-recipients of the fact that
we were making a motion for this variance. Certainly, we would
be very happy to make -it 8 feet on Mr. Diana ' s side and 12 feet
on Mr. Temple ' s side and if that would suit them both. I see
they are nodding their heads, Mr. Chairman. Now, if that 's fine,
it' s fine with us, but there is a distinct hardship. I would
press this, one that we are. not certain of retaining a mortgage
on. a different plan, and two that even if we did get a mortgage
the costs would be considerably increased from the time that we 've
had it. And thirdly, if I may mention this, this house, I have
the plans here, it' s a modest ranch house with a garage attached,
and if anybody knows that area, everyone including Mr. Temple has
a garage attached to it. There are about eight houses in obvious
violation on this short little stretch, even if it was made in
1927 . Certainly, I .suppose if we had been bright enough we
would have not contracted with a builder before we have found
out that there were requirements that would not permit us to
put such a house on this lot, but since it was the same as all
the other houses along there, it did not occur to us , but we
will agree that we contracted them. But if the reversing of
that, that is eight feet to the north and 12 feet to tre south,
we would be very happy to do that. If we could get a decision
tonight if the rest of you would authorize to have that,
Southold Town Board .of Appeals -33- November 15 , 1979
the builder, not holding on to his contract is beyond ,this_ thing.
r
c
MR. DOUGLASS : I thank you. As that appears to be the
last of the testimony', I will close this hearing and reserve o
decision on this until after we have finished the other z
appeals tonight, if someone will second it.
MR. TEMPLE : Mr. Douglass, may I say something? m
MR. DOUGLASS : Yes, sir.
N
MR. TEMPLE: Would we get a notice of the decision? w
MR. DOUGLASS : You sure will, sir. Tonight.
MR. TEMPLE: Fine. As - far as things of violation, when that
house was built there was no violation. Thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. We have a motion on the floor.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was
RESOLVED, that the matter of JANET HALVERSON, Appeal No.
2631, be RECESSED ITS DECISION until later this evening when
the other appeals have been heard.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 26.33 . Application of DELMER z
NUHFER, 60.0 Cedar Drive, Southold, New York 11971, for a Variance
to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-31 for permis-
sion to divide property with insufficient area and width. Loca-
tion of property: 600 Cedar Drive, Southold; bounded north by
Boggiano, south by Bloore and Thilberg, east by Summer, Lane, west
by Cedar Avenue, o
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 9:48 P.M. by z
reading the application for a variance, legal notice of hearing
and affidavits attesting to its publication in the local and
official newspaper, Notice of Disapproval from the Building
Inspector, and letter from the Town Clerk that notification to
w
adjoining property owners was made to: Boggiano, Thilberg and
Bloore; fee paid $15 . 00 .
MR. DOUGLASS : We have a copy of the survey showing the
proposed division and-.-.a copy of the County Tax Map showing the
area. Is there anyone wishing to speak for this application?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
Southold Town Board of Appeals -34- November 15 , 1979
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anyone wishing to speak against this
application?
z
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. ) x ,
to .
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was
ho
to
:...:
RESOLVED, that the matter of DELMER NUHFER, Appeal No. 2633
'BE RESERVED ITS DECISION until later this evening after the other
appeals have been heard. z
0
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs . Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.
rn
* * * w
w
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2632 . Application of FISHERS
ISLAND DEVELOPMENT CO. , Fishers Island, New York' for a Special
Exception to the Zoning ordinance, Article 111, Section 100,-30 vHi
for permission to construct multiple dwelling with three units
to house personnel. Location of property: Fishers Island, near
Fishers Island Country Club, New York; more particularly known
as part of Suffolk County Tax Map #1000-001-01-02 and part of
County Tax Map #1000-001-01-3 .1. �
z
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 9.:55 P.M. by d
reading the application for Special Exception, Notice of. Hearing
and affidavits attesting to its publication in the local and MC
official newspaper, Notice of Disapproval from the Building t-,
Inspector, and letter from the Town Clerk that notification to 0
I'dadjoining property owners was made; fee paid $15 . 00 .
... z
i-3
MR. DOUGLASS : We have a copy of the architects-Map showing o
the surrounding lands over the golf course and private dwellings .
in relation to the proposed spot for the housing unit. I also
have a section of the Tax Map showing that area in which it is
proposed and the surrounding areas. At this time I ' ll ask if
there is anybody in the audience representing FIDCO and if so, P)
would they please let us hear from you. ~
z
0
JANSEN NOISE, JR. : On May 3rd on behalf of FIDCO, oh, '
Jansen Noise, Jr. and I 'm President of Fishers Island Develop- iv
ment Corporation. On May 3rd on behalf FIDCO, I came before
this committee to get approval of three items, one was the
tennis court fencing which has unfortunately been built without
knowledge that it was , too high,, but it was an approved item.
I obtained approval of construction of housing for Country
Club house personnel on top of the beach club for 5 persons,
5 bedrooms and so:: forth, and that building permit was obtained
in late June and the construction was completed in July and it
was occupied this summer. We also obtained at that time
approval from this Board for the construction of the subject
housing on the site that it is now being contested, or spoken
about, and the building permit there required sewage approvals
Southold Town Board of Appeals -35- November 15 , 1979
and so forth, and that did not, we did not receive that until
August, early August. In late August we started construction,
we have completed the foundation and boarded over the main floor
when we received word that we should hold off further work on it.
We have paid something in excess of $20, 000 on that to the con-
tractor. It is presently covered with plastics so that it does
not deteriorate. The mill work has been returned to the ware-
houses on the Island so they won't deteriorate. Also,
as a result of having obtained the other approvals, we went
ahead and sold the four buildings which have housed personnel
for the Country Club and the Yacht Club and those four build-
ings were sold for $100 ,000 to four families. Deposits were
accepted in last August, and those have all been surveyed and
so forth and are moving towards a closing. So two of those
buildings were. the buildings in which the personnel had been t7i
housed for four or five years, the personnel who had originally
been housed adjacent to the proposed location that has already
started in construction, because prior to four or five years
ago, five or six perhaps , the red barn which is, the big barn
immediately adjacent. to these properties, this new building is
as close, as legally possible, fire laws and so forth, to the ti
other barn. But prior to that this big red barn did house for
some 50 years , I guess, since 1926 , almost 50 years, the golf
course personnel and also the male personnel working in the d
main clubhouse.At that time the club house was much larger and
there were 20 or 30 people, I think, housed in that red barn. N
At this time the plan that was approved by this Board was to 0
put in three apartments with two bedrooms , each housing six or :R:
a maximum of 8 or 9, and other personnal as I mentioned were z
housed in the beachclub which is already completed now, so that y
I have heard of the request for movement, but I have no place n
I can find to move people. I have construction that has already
been started. I have the golf course personnel returning on the
first of April. I .have to have something completed for them by ro
then, and I would like to' go ahead with the approval that was m
granted by this Board at that time.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else o
wishing to say anything in favor of this application?
N
RICHARD LARK: Richard Lark, Main Road, Cutchogue, New York. w
Mr. Noise stated to you Mr. Douglass, the Board back on May 24th N
granted approval of this application and made it subject to get-
ting the Site Plan Approval from the Planning Board and the
Board of Health Approval from the Suffolk County Department of
Health. Both of those were done; and construction was commenced
as Mr. Noise said. it got up to the first level when, for some
reason, a:,stop order was issued on the strength of the letter
which remains somewhat questionable. But I thought, I don't
khow if the Board has this map, but attached to this map is an
aerial photograph, is a reproduction of an aerial photograph,
which I think will be helpful to the Board with the exception
of Mr. Doyen who is familiar with the property in answering any
questions . It shows on this larger map where the building is
presently under construction and where it was originally envi
sioned and the Board requested it be moved further north.
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -36- November 15 , 1979
Mr. Lark brought the photograph closer for the Board to review.
MR. EUPOW: Excuse me, can 'I look at this also?
MR. LARK: The aerial photograph shows that where the red line
is where that is, and the red barn that Mr. Noise refers to which
used to house the personnel that ' s over here, the sort of "L-
shaped" barn, and you see that barn; the photograph over here, is
a white spot, it ,shows up as a white spot. And I think, I know
Mr. Doyen' s familiar---
MR. DOYEN: Mr. Douglass has also been over and has examined
the property, and took same .photographs of it. He is familiar with
it.
MR. LARK: Ok. But that gives you more or less an aerial co
photograph of just what is there, where it is presently located,
and where the red barn is so you could put things into just a
position if anybody has any questions of the Board, and I do U'
want to remind the Board that the applicant, FIDCO, did acquire
a certain amount of vested rights in relying on the Board ' s deter- ti
mination of granting it its approval, and then of course subse-
quently taking the Planning Board, and the Planning Board approval d
by the way, just for that site, which was the same site that the d
Board had moved it to, and the Department of Health approvals for
C
the construction are also for that site. And I do feel that FIDCO
has acquired certain vested rights as a result of the reliance on p
the Board of Appeals approval:, but we 're here tonight to answer �d
any questions that the Board might have in connection with this z
project because I understand under the provisions of the Town Law y
that the Board does have the right to have a re-hearing, which I 0
assume that' s the purpose of what we are here for tonight. So if o
there are any questions, we would be glad to answer them.
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : It ' s not a re-hearing. It' s a new application.
w
MR. LARK: On behalf of the applicant, I ' ll reserve all
rights in respect to that. But anyway, we are here to answer o
any questions. I think Mr. Noise has explained it, and the Board
is familiar with it. I understand from Mr. Doyen you have, some
of you have seen the property, so I think you will be able to w
answer it, but if you have any questions as to the topography or
anything like that, Mr. Noise or myself would be glad to answer
them for you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anyone else wishing to speak for
this application?
(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE. )
MR. DOUGLASS : Being none, is there anyone wishing to speak
against this application?
STEPHEN LUPOW: Yes, your Honor, Mr. Chairman, gentlemen, my
Southold Town Board of Appeals -37- November 15 , 1979
name is Stephen Lupow. , I 'm an attorney. I represent Mr.. and
Mrs. Kelsey, who Mrs . Kelsey' s mother, Mrs. Bryce, owns the
property just to the north. If I might show you on this aerial
photograph, the parcel just, wait a minute- just above where
the barn is and very close to where the new structure is going
to be. I 'm glad that you pointed out to Mr.. Lark that this is
a new hearing. I think we all appreciate that the first action
was illegal in the sense that the building permit was issued
for the wrong property, and there were major changes in the
location, and we just didn't know about it. When we found out
about it, we came in just as expeditiously as we could and came,
I spoke to Mr. Fisher and as soon as he saw that the property
building permit was in the wrong location, he issued an imme-
diate stop order and stopped everything, held everything in
abeyance and FIDCO has now, put in a new application. I 'd like H
to point out a few things to you folks so that we understand
them. I'm looking over here at your sign and it says that your L7J
Town was founded in 1640. Well, Mrs . Bryce, Mrs. Kelsey' s �d
mother ' s house was built approximately 1670, one of the oldest
houses in your Town. Many people come out and visit that house. rn
Mr. and Mrs. Kelsey want to retire in that home, and when they r
found out that a labor camp was going to be put very close to
it, they were very upset and I think you can appreciate that. tZI
Going to affect the property evaluation, it' s going to de-evaluate
the property, I. think we can all agree to that. And I wanted to
s=how you- some pictures so that you have a full understanding of r
what were talking about in terms of distance. This is the rear b
of the Bryce home; it ' s also called the Winthrop Home, they were
I brelieve the original owners. From the point where this step z
begins to the point where the prpposed site of this labor camp y
is going to be built, where three families are going to be moving n
in over there. We understand it' s approximately 40 feet. Now to
the home it runs approximately 120 . From this point where the
sidewalk starts , where they could park their car and walk into
their house it' s only 40 feet away. The -, and you haven 't seen m
it, and we ' ll pass it down to you, the house itself, this is a
photograph taken from a distance is up on a bluff and looks down
to where this labor camp is supposed to be. I 've asked Mr. Kel- o
sey to point out where it' s going to be in view on this photograph
and he said it' s going to extend just a little past this tree so N
that when they go outside, they're .going to have a full view of w
this ; and if you would want to take a look at it and see if you N
would want to live next to that kind of a situation, you can see
and make a determination on that basis. Gentlemen, I looked at
your statute and it talked in the terms of a labor camp farm and
non-farm, and I think the statute itself has a general intention
and understanding that when a labor camp with migrant workers are
placed in a location near private residences, it' s going to
de-evaluate property. The statute says that if you go to locate
a labor camp on farm and non-farm property, to put it next to the
owner. Don 't put it next to, nearer to any other residence than
the residence of the employer. The employer in this case is
FIDCO. We 're trying to ascertain from FIDCO from Mr. Noise
where, if he had considered other locations, he could possibly do
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -38- November 15 , 1979
this, and he said, well he went and sold some property where he
thought a bouple of buildings he could have placed these summer
workers, and I don 't know .whether they are actually in contract,
whether a legal contract has been signed or not. I don't have
a clear answer on that price because Mr. Noise is not an attorney,
but that should not change your thinking merely because they may
agree to see or possibly be in contract with that. There are
other areas on the Island that FIDCO can put a labor camp if
they really feel they need a labor camp. I was looking at one
of the maps they had previously submitted, and there are areas ,
and I have it here, there are areas where FIDCO itself has sur-
rounding properties. Not next to anyone else. Do you have that
photo, do you have the map? Maybe you have it in your applica-
tion.
Fli
MR. DOUGLASS : We have the signed one that you have there. U)
x
t1J
MR. - LUPOW: Well I have another one here. %d
Cn
MR;. DOUGLASS : And we 've this big one here. W
ti
MR: LUPOW: All right. Could we just take a look at this big
one for a second? Ok. All of this property, all this grey area,
ok, is owned by FIDCO. They can put a labor camp in over here, d
they could put it down here, they could put it all over the
Island, but why place it in the far end of the Island where there td
ks. noth :ng in the vicinity for people to do when they get off 0
work except have fun. They're entitled to. They could place
it by the- Town where they could have, where people could have z
the opportunity to at least have some socializing, but they y
want to place it next to the Bryce house, and they said they n
want it over there because for whatever reason they want. I
am suspicious of it, and I 'm suspicious in the following vain.
There was some talk that FIDCO was going to move this location, ro
I received a letter from. Mr. Bri-, from Mr. Fisher of your m
office, all . ri.jiht, and you said, the new location here that they
were considering was recent information of note, is that a new ~
. proposed location will be south _,of Oriental Avenue around to 0
the east end westerly or around the old club house. Ok. This
was a letter sent to me dated October 23 , and apparently there N
was.. some discussion over there. Were now told, at least Mr.
Kelsey was told by, I believe Mr. Noise, that the reason that
t, ey couldn 't put it there was because they would have problems
s,4,%ling their property. Now, ladies and gentlemen, if they
want to put a labor camp in on their property and de-evaluate
it, that' s their business. But should they put it next to
someone else, a residence in a residential area and de-evaluate
other people ' s properties? Your statute doesn't want you to do
that. You have a mandate from the people who wrote this statute.
Ok. They just don 't want you to do that, and I don't think it
would be fair to that, Mr, and Mrs. Kelsey, or anyone else. I
believe Seawindeis also going to talk tonight to you about that.
I also wanted to point out one or two other things that were
quite troublesome. And number one is that if you have three
-family units, and I don 't know how many people are going to be
Southold Town Board of Appeals -39- November 15 , 1979
in ' there, whether it' s going to be three, six adults, and their
children, or individuals, or single, people or what. But you're
going to have three-family units, and I think the average family
is four people. You're talking anywhere 10 to 12 people living
right over there. You're going to have noise. You 're going to
have congestion. The barn was used several years ago to house
some of the people and the police had to be called. There was
a knifing incident on the Island in that location. When the
employees got finished from work, they got a little roudy and
the police had to be called down and there was trouble over there.
And to do this now' to place it in the same location in full view;
it' s not being blocked. The photograph, oh not the photograph,
but the map that was submitted for the application shows that
there ' s a red barn, and this is the new proposed golf course,
but this is in full view because if you look at the photograph
H
over here where the steps are, right over here, that ' s the exact
point where this is over here. The driveway. So you have full
view of the new housing, and I don 't think that that ' s wise to �d
be placed in that position. The FIDCO people say that they went
out and they spent money. I don't know if they actually paid Cn
their contractors. or what. They said they paid $20, 000 and they r'
have a vested right. I asked Mr. Kelsey who looked at the prop- z
erty what could be done with that hole, because it' s a hole now. d
Well, it could be used for other purposes. You might just put a d
flat roof on it and use it for some storage. They could just C
use it to prevent erosion, because I understand it' s merely a r
concrete foundation that was put ih. The wood could be used in O
other areas. I understand there' s an area on the Island which
is the Tabor Farm, I believe, is that how you pronounce it, z
Tabor? y
n
MRS . KELSEY: Yes, Camp Tabor.
MR. LUPOW: Where the Camp Tabor, a period a while ago were
using that to house some summer employees. And they say they m .
can.'t use it now because it has to be re-done, it has to have P,
work done on it. They could use some of this material to re-do
it, but apparently they don 't want to. They want to now put it o
in anew location, and I suspect that the reason for the new '
location is monetary, and I suspect that because if they put it N
near any of their own, number one their own club members, but w
number two, if it were on any of their property, ok, it would
de-evaluate their own property. They don 't want to do that,
they want to keep it out of the way and I think that' s being
very unfair to my people. The proposed site is 5-1/2 miles out
of town. The people are going to have to go into town to do
their shopping. They have to go, into town if they want to have
any recreation to do whatever they want to do. Right now I
understand they are living near the town and are going out to
take care of the golf course. Well, that ' s the way it should
be. There ' s no reason to have them way out there when they
should be where all the recreation for them is, where all the
food supplies are. And I just want to see if I covered 'all
the points. I wanted to also point out that one month a year
Southold Town Board of Appeals -40 November 15 , 1979
Mr. and Mrs. Kelsey rent out this home to a man, what was his name?
MRS . KELSEY: No, no, we don't. We're speaking of our own
house. We rent it more than that. We rent it three months.
MR. KELSEY: June 15th to October 15th, four months.
MR. LUPOW: All right, you rent it out.
MRS . KELSEY: Yes, yes.
MR. LUPOW: All right, and you 've already been told by the
people who rent this out that this is going to present a
problem for them. They are right at the stage of seeking retire-
ment, they told me tonight as I' met them. They were planning to H
do that and then go their permanently, and this may very well
change all of their- and they don't want to do that, it' s been
in their family for many, many years. Their children have been �d
brought up over there and they have daughters with grandchildren
that want to stay there, and they feel very uncomfortable about M
having a labor camp only 40 feet from the entrance to their house ti
and I would ask that. you do not grant this application, and we
would object to it. I 'm here to answer any questions also, and
Mr. and Mrs. Kelsey if you want them to respond to anything.
Thank you. Did you want us to pull out these pictures, or
should we-- r
0
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : Yes .
z
MR. LUPOW: Ok. I ' ll give you all of them, this I think is
the front of the house. o
MRS . KELSEY: No, that ' s the back.
MR. LUPOW: That' s the back area, ok. This is --
MR. KELSEY: That' s the front area. Z
0
MR. DOUGLASS : That ' s. the driveway entrance.
N
MRS . KELSEY: Yes. w
N
MR. DOUGLASS : That' s the entrance nearest the prebuilt barn,
the old barn.
MRS . KELSEY: Yes . You have to pass this new structure to
get into the house. It' s a dirt road, it' s not a fancy driveway.
It' s a dirt road and it' s been there for years.
MR. DOUGLASS : Yes. I know it well.
MRS . KELSEY: Oh, you do?
MR. DOUGLASS : Oh, yes, ma 'am.
MR. LUPOW: Thank you.
,Southold, Town Board of Appeals -41- November 15, 1979
MR. DOUGLASS : Is there anyone else wishing to speak
against this application?
LEONARD PILSER: Yes. Gentlemen, I would like to say a
few words. My name is Pilser, Leonard Pilser. I 'm here from
the office of Richard Pellicane in Riverhead on behalf of
Fishers Island SeawindeIncorpor.ated. As .you probably know,
Seawinde ownssome property on the eastern end .of Fishers Island
very close. to where this proposed structure would go if per-
mission were granted. And for that reason, obviously Seawinde
has a very strong interest in this application. In a sense,
Seawinde is appearing here tonight as a"good neighbor, "if you
can put that in quotation-marks. In a very small sense, we 're
appearing here almost. on behalf of everybody who owns property
on Fishers Island. It seems that for a number of reasons the
application pending should in fact be denied for one, and again
most of these points have been made by Mr. Lupow. For one, it ,
certainly cannot be denied that the structure is not in character
with the neighborhood. It is a residential neighborhood and it
simply would not fit in. Second and very important is the harm H
to people like the Kelseys who nobody can deny are entirely
innocent . in this entire .matter. Third; there not only would be z
minimal benefit to FIDCO if the application is denied, I 'm d
sorry, minimal benefit if their application is granted, there
will be minimal detriment .to FIDCO if the application is denied. C
If , the structure is put up, it certainly will affect property
values, adversely affect the property values. And another 0
Fd
point that I would like to expound upon, is that it seems to z
me a major reason that FIDCO wants the structure where it is t�j
is to save themselves the cost of ferrying people, their employees, y
of course, from the western end of the Island to the eastern end. 0
Well, a ten or fifteen-minute car ride to get these people to 0
work doesn't seem in my mind to be a sufficient hardship to
warrant variation of the Zoning Ordinance. And lastly and ,I ro
think most important is the mere fact that the Zoning Ordinance
itself prohibits this kind of structure in this area. Now, a
obviously that ' s why an application is pending by FIDCO to ~
get a special exemption. But if the purpose of the Zoning o
Ordinance is to protect the neighborhoods and to perhaps elim-
inate or to prevent nonconforming uses, then at least to my N
mind it seems that the application should be denied, and for
these reasons as well as for the, reasons that Mr. Lupow has N
mentioned, we respectfully request that the application be in
fact denied. Thank you very much.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you for your testimony. Do you have
something that you would like to say, Mr. Noise?
MR: NOISE: Yes, I have a couple of points, if I may. I
have not spoken to the two gentlemen who have been speaking,
so perhaps some of the things they have assumed I would like
to speak about. First, I think I would like to mention that
at the meeting in May 3rd, Seawinde was represented here by
the same gentleman who spoke in favor of the location which we
are now having, have construction started on, and he was, with
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -427 November 15, ..1979
him at the time was the owner of that property at that hearing.
Secondly, from the point of view of valuation, I think that the
house had been occupied, I mean the barn had been occupied by
employees for the Country Club including the golf course workers
or I believe over 20 years when the present owners purchased it.
It was every expectation that it would continue to be so occupied,
the red barn, which is located half the distance from the proposed
location to the house, it' s closer to the house quite a consider-
able degree. There was every expectation that it would be con-
tinued to be occupied by 20 or 30 people working on the course
and in the Country Club at that time, and in fact for I guess 20
years about, that did happen. They only moved out because of
a health problem, which we moved them into temporary quarters.
From the point of view of valuation further, when this was going
on, in actually an effort of fairness, I checked with the real
estate=brokers, and was advised that that ' s the opinion that it
was being rented for about $7 , 000 a season. I asked, well if
this construction was completed and the tenant refused to go
ahead with re-renting it., what could you get for it. They told
me they could get $9 , 000 or $10, 000 for it. So, I do not feel
it was justification on the valuation or, the rental to the tenants. r .
From the point of view of utilization of this property verses other z
property, it wasn't a thing of only light consideration. A labor d
camp we believe should be located on the property where the d
laborers are working, and we have put the clubhouse personnel
into a labor camp unit over the beach club, the people that work
in the club house,, and we wanted to have this for the golf course. p
There are two areas in the golf course; one is this area and one b
is up by the Country Club itself. We chose this one first; we z
looked into the other; we found we had.: too many problems there, y
and we decided that this was the better one. Actually, from the n
point of view for the workers, there ' s no question at all that o
this is the better one. Their shops, all their equipment where
they work is in the red barn. Their equipment, all the golf
course equipment is kept in the repair shop in the bottom of
the. basement of the red barn. These people also have, they come Pi
up and they sprinkle the tees and the greens in the morning ~
before the golf course is used. They come up at dawn, they o
come back after the golf course closes at 6 :30 and they sprinkle
again until dusk, which varies according to. the time of the seas- N
on. At present they have been coming back and forth three times w
a day, five miles in order to do their jobs three or four times a N
day, and from the point of view of natural location for what they
are doing, this is really by far the best place; and we came here
in good faith on this . At- one time we have been talking about
re-building the big red barn and putting 14 bedrooms in there
instead of, the six, before we decided to put some on top of the
beach club. I have talked to Mr. Kelsey about it at the time,
and told him what we were doing; this was two years ago, and I
was completely surprised when the request came to stop construc-
tion, and what we decided is not a slab. I suppose those of you
who have been there have perhaps noticed it' s an excavated base-
ment with walls and a wood floor: It is not useful for something
else. You couldn't put equipment on it or anything else. It's
not built for that type of strength. The only other thing I
,Southold Town Board of Appeals -43- November 15 , 1979
would say is, I asked the architect to come up. He erected a pole
the height of the top of the roof line onto the first floor that
was there and reported to me, and later I went back and looked at
it and it is our belief that only the top of the roof will be
able to be seen from the ground floor of this house. The foundation
itself is 20 to 25 feet below the ground level of the house. In
fact you will look over the roof of this barn,at another older
barn, and you would see the whole of the older barn without even
seeing the roof of this house, this building.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir. . Is there anyone else wishing
to give testimony?
NANCY KELSEY: I 'd like to explain about this. When my parents
bought the house, I can't remember that there were actually people
in the barn at the time, but very soon after that my father heard
that these people were coming and he .looked forward to this because x
he thought that they were going to be helpful to him and that they
could help with the gardening, that they could help with maybe
house work. We didn't object at that point because my father was
very interested to other people. And he was, he contributed quite
a lot, not financially but being a member of the American
Legion and of .doing a great many, he was on the Civic Association
and all of this, and he as I do very much have very strong feel- d
ings for these other people. So unfortunately it did not work out C
when they, did move these people in. They did have this stabbing, r
they did have a lot of trouble. I could tell you that the Justice b
of the Peace Perry Edwards had to be called several times , and it
was a great disappointment to my family. And so then they removed z
. those people from the barn and .they put in people that were working y
for the club, and it was made into an office, and they did have n
some people live there for awhile. Even then, when they came to
work, there were cars parked right by my parents ' entrance because
there was no other place to park. This still, the golf course
machinery goes up and down the road which we all understand be-
cause it has to be used. But on top of that there are people that
park their cars to play golf because it ' s the ninth hole. Some ~
people start there. So in other words, there ' s quite a lot of o
congestion on this little dirt road, and they have three families
who must have three cars who would expect to move right in . there, N
and my biggest problem would be to having that congestion. And I w
just feel that I feel very strongly that this is in the front to N
our family. I have been involved with the Island people for 16
consecutive years, but I was on the Civic Board for two years and
then I became the Civic President, and then the following years
that I had been the President of the Island People ' s Project,
which runs a recreation program for the Island children and summer
children. It gives nature talks, it does all kinds -- it has a
craft shop that we have started, and I think it' s unfair for my
family' s house to have its value lowered and all of these things
happen to us. I take it unfortunate personally, but I also think
that it would make a difference to my children when they inherit
the house. And I think the property would be very much less
valuable if they build this building. I 've seen a picture of it,
the. drawing of it, and it' s attractive, but it looks exactly like
Southold Town Board of Appeals -44- November 15 , 1979
a motel. It has shutters, it has pretty doorways and it still is
a long narrow building, to me in the drawing, and it' s going to
give the effect of a motel. And I still feel that these people
would be happier near the ferry, near the movies and all of that;
they can go swimming in a beach nearby which involves walking
across the golf course which when they used to swim there we
didn' t object to it, and then they found it very difficult to
have people walking across the golf course. So there are quite
a few other reasons for our not wanting this structure to be
put there.
MR. NOISE-: Mr. Chairman, may I speak about the parking place
which is 'a subject that has come up, and I would like to speak..
The plan is to have, first of all these people bring their cars
up at dawn; they are on the golf course all day, and they leave
at dusk, at 8 or 9 o 'clock according to the time, so from the
point of view of daytime presence they're .in that locality anyhow.
The only additional people that would be there other than the two
workers usually would be two wives . Two of them have wives, so U'
that there would be two extras as a result of their being here _
during the daytime, but as for parking the plan is, and it is to ti
enlarge the area within this, it ' s going to be below a bank about
12 feet high I guess; maybe a little more than that, which will d
be where the cars will be within the court yard here, and I do d
not think this will be a problem. They will- not be able to be C
seen from the house, I 'm sure. They will be behind the big barn t�
and down much lower behind the excavation area. Thank you. 0
Pd
STEPHEN KELSEY: My name is Stephen Kelsey. Mr. Noise said z
that he didn ' t think the proposed labor camp could be seen from y
the first floor of the Bryce house. I would like to point out n
that the first floor of the Bryce house houses a laundry, a 0
furnace room, a room for wood. The kitchen is on the second
floor, and the family lived on the third floor, and it would
look right down over the proposed berm, or whatever it is on
the house, just as the Andrew family would from Seawinde, which
is south. ~
z
MR. NOISE: I thought I was referring to the second floor
as the first floor. iv
rn
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Is anybody else wishing to ,give nWi
testimony?
MR. PILSER: Very briefly I do so almost relunctantly because
of the length of this. I think that every reason mentioned has
been valid. I 'd just like to very briefly mention two particular
reasons only because I think they are the ones that the Board
should give the most weight to. First, Mr. Noise commented
something to the effect that this location would be the best
place for his workers . Well that might be so, but I think what
the Board must consider is whether legally under the laws of
the Zoning Ordinance that is sufficient to grant the special
exemption, and as I said before I don't quite think that that
Southold Town Board of Appeals -45- November, 15 , 1979
quali:fa:peq, as a hardship that the Ordinance speaks of. Second, Mr.
Noise mentioned that .the red barn was used for housing before.
Well, I must confess I 'm far more familiar with the Zoning Ordi-
nance Laws im Southampton than in Southold, but I must assume
there is some• similarity, and if .I can analo gyze from the South-
ampton Zoning Ordinance, the fact that the structure had been
used;. for housing before might have been a non-conforming use, but
as I 'm sure as you all know, a non-conforming use must continue
year to year to be maintained, and I know for a fact that this
has not been used for housing for at least five, maybe six, seven
or eight years. So the fact that it has been used. before, if
that was special exemption, it was a nonconforming use, or for
whatever reason, I -don 't think again legally under the applicable
statute it is sufficient ground to say, "Therefore we can use the
house now, or the structure now, ". whatever, the red barn for H
housing purposes. Thank you. cn
x
MR. LUPOW: Just one thing. I wanted to thank- the Board ' s
indulgence and on behalf of Mr. and Mrs. Kelsey and their mother, En
Mrs. Bryce, who is in the nursing home and couldn't be with us . Cn
And we• ask you., implore you not -to grant this special exception
and consider how it' s going to affect the value of this property z
and the family and the tradition that the Kelseys and the Bryce
families have had. over the years. Thank you. d
C
MR. DOUGLASS : Sir, please wait just a minute. Would you, Mr.
Noise come forward. a minute and you- as a representative on this. b
I would just like to have You look at these photographs that I
have taken and tell me if these are the actual things so that we z
can enter them into our files . y
c-�
MR. NOISE: This is the construction to date. And this is
the present red barn. This is where the housing took place
before. The basement of this barn and this barn, this whole
barn• .s where the shop is. m
w
MR. LUPOW: If you would also note that the building in the ~
center, ok, is the Kelsey house. o
MR. DOUGLASS : That' s right, sir. w
rn
w '
MR: TASKER: That ' s the Bryce house in the background. You N
say that ' s 40 feet from the new building?'
MR. NOISE: This is the third floor and' roof of the Bryce
house.
MR. TASKER; And you say that house is 30 feet or 40 feet
from that house?
MR. LUPOW: From the house itself, the foundation line of
the house. The foundation line of the house to the new location
is approximately 120 feet. Ok? From the point where the drive-
way begins, ok, to the foundation of the proposed location is
40 feet.
Southold. Town' Board of Appeals- -46- November 15, 1979
MR. TUTHILL: How close is it to the barn?
MR. NOISE: It' s --
MR, LUPOW: Which the house, or--.-
MR. NOISE: The house is about 70 or 80, 80 , or 90 feet from
the barn going away from the Bryce -house.
MR: TUTHILL: From the driveway you're talking about?
MR. NOISE: No. From the barn.
MR. DOUGLASS : From the .barn itself.
H
MR. NOISE: I think it was a working farm- so the farmer had
his cattle as close as possible to the house, the barn is-- t3j
W
MR. DOUGLASS : Well the barn is almost on your line.
H
MR. NOISE: Yes , that' s correct. Yes.
z
MR. LUFOW: ,And the proposed location to the barn is how much? d
Approximately?
C
MR. NOISE: I would guess that was 89 feet the other side of r -
the barn which itself is 30 or 40 feet wide. o
ro
MR: DOUGLASS : Right. z
H
MR. NOISE : So it' s a big barn. o
MR. TUTHILL: So the barn is closer to these people' s. home
than this?
m
MR. DOUGLASS: Yes. How long is the old red barn? FP'..,
MR: NOISE: I beg your pardon? o
MR: DOUGLASS : What is the length of the old red barn, that N
"L" that sticks down towards the ,new- construction? w
N
MR. NOISE: Twenty feet or something. We were going to. put
seven 1,2 and 3 bedroom apartments, two-story, in that one- wing.
It' s a big unit.
MR, DOUGLASS : You have about 30 foot of width in the east-
west section, and then you have the "L" coming back to the souther-
MR. NOISE: The "L" was the cup on itself and that is where it
is has the cement block and that is where the equipment usually is.
MR. DOUGLASS : That' s right. Well the equipment ' s been there
for years.
MR. NOISE: The equipment is stored under the main plot-also.
Bouthold Town Board of Appeals -47- November 15, 1979
MR. DOUGLASS: So actually this new labor camp is down, it
goes to 150 feet from that property line.
MR. NOISE : If they say 120, I 'm sure they're right. The
plan on this is to have the exterior match the red. The roof z r
is to be the same shingle, the barn, as part of the barn cluster F ,0d
was the architect' s plan for the specifications for the contract. N
� z
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, sir. N y
MR. NOISE: Thank you.
MR. LUPOW: Thank you.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it
was
RESOLVED, that the matter of Fishers Island Development Co. ,
Appeal No. 2632 , BE RESERVED ITS DECISION until the end of hear-
ing the balance of tonight' s applications.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass , Grigonis , Tut-
hill and Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2634 . Application of GWYNNE .
CONSTRUCTION CORP. , 163A Montauk Highway West, Hampton Bays, �C
New York for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VII,
Section 100--70 for permission to change use to include residen-
tial use in B-1 Zone. Location of property: 6355 Main Road, n
Laurell, New- York; bounded north by Mattituck Holding Co. , south o
by, Maston, east by Main Road, west by Long Island Railroad. y
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 10 :45 P.M. by d
reading the application for a variance, legal notice of hearing y
and affidavits attesting to its publication in the local and o
official newspaper, Notice of Disapproval from the .Building z
Inspector, and letter from the Town Clerk that notification o
had been made to adjoining property owners as follow: Long ;d
Island Railroad MTA, Mattituck Holding Co, Bertha Maston; fee ;ti
paid $15 . 00 .
ro
MR. DOUGLASS : We have a copy of the survey of the property 'b
and a copy of the County Tax map showing this and the surrounding
properties. We will now take testimony from anybody wishing to ~'
speak for this application. z
0
EVERETT FUCHS : I 'm Everett Fuchs, Vice President of Gwynne
Construction Company. Before I start, was there a question on
the Board about how many square feet that we will be using?
MR. DOUGLASS : We asked what area of the house were you
intending to use for a business.
MR. FUCHS : The purchasers will be using the two-car office
.Southold Town Board of Appeals -49- November 15, 1979
there and their course of running a business would be located
in the one site. This is the only way I could see how the site
could be sold at the present time. This is the only action I 'm
getting would be from people that would want to use it as a
residence and business also. If I cannot obtain this variance,
then I have no other choice other than to close the site up
which is brought out in the petition, which I do not want to do.
I think there is really nothing wrong with having someone use
the site as residence and business, in fact, well you could
correct me if I 'm wrong, I think at one time this zoning allowed
that. It was an amendment to the zoning- that would change this
and knocked the residential use out. I thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Is there anybody else wishing to
speak in favor of this application?
ALBERT ALBERTSON: Albert Albertson. I 've lived in this z
Town for 51 years and previously have been in business for my-
self having owned Albertson Marine, Incorporated. Certainly n
I ''m now a real estate broker and have done a lot of work chang- z
ing residential properties over to business, and I have a little y
expertise in what that costs . I have inspected the property
owned by the petitioner, Gwynne Construction Corporation, Main n
Road, West Mattituck, New York. I have also reviewed the 1-3
H
contents of the petition before the Board of Appeals, and I o
am familiar with Gwynne Construction Corporation ' s application. z
The general development of this area in Mattituck is as recom-
mended by the Town Planning Board in 1970, who prepared and b
published the development plan for the Town of Southold; that
is of a mixed commercial and residential suburban -density. >1
Although zoned business , the property to the west of the peti-
tioner ' s land contains a small residence as well as a trailer
which is used as a residence. Directly across the street is P,
the large two-story brick home which is residential . The
property immediately to the east is va-aant,. although further o
to the east along the northerly side of Main Road there are '
some businesses which are mixed in with residential uses. The N
point I wish to make is this neighborhood as it exists is one w
of a .mixed use. To grant the variance of the petitioner will
not in any way change the existing use, it will stay just as is.
In fact the existing buildings on the property are ideal for
what the petitioner proposes. The property contains two
buildings, one of 1,713 square feet and the other with 900
square feet, for a total of 2, 613 square feet which the peti-
tioner proposes to use as follows.. This will answer your
question. Four-hundred equare foot of the main building is
devoted exclusively for business as a sales area. Nine-hundred
square feet, which is contained in the one and one-half story
framed barn in the rear is to be used for business purposes.
Thirteen-hundred square feet would be devoted to business
purposes. Thirteen-hundred thirteen square feet would be
devoted to a residential, so it' s about split in half. Half
residence and half living quarters. It is seen that 500 of
the building area on the premises will be devoted to business
Southold Town. Board of Appeals -48- November 15 , 1979
that ' s there now.
MR. TUTHILL: Just as you have been doing.
MR, FUCHS : That' s what we 've been doing.
MR: TUTHILL: They will not be using part of the house for
office space or anything?
MR. FUCHS : No. Thirteen-hundred thirteen square feet is
living area; that' s where they will be living.
MR. TUTHILL: That' s what I was getting at.
MR. FUCHS : All right. In 1976, when we came into the
Southold Town area, and we came into this area for one reason z
and that was to build houses. The way we have always done it z
in the past is to set up a model site. Now I express a model td
site for one reason. The. only way you can set a model site up n_
o
the way we have it was in purchasing business property. We z
could not do that on residential property. Some builders have U'
put signs on houses for sale and sort of used it as a model,
but we wanted to use it as a model site with the 'sign in the n
front, enter, exit and the parking lot. Now to do this, this '-3
H
involved quite a bit of money, not in just purchasing the z
business property, which is stated right in the petition itself.
This was fine, we started, we , opened up business , we have and n
we . employed two salesmen running seven days a week and we ro
started to sell homes , and everything was fine. We met our
overhead, which is also stated in the petition including the >,
sales, which is not shown in the petition as a salesman' s salary. �
Then things sort of declined, and we weren't selling the houses. . (D
We had expected to, have been selling them in the future and P,
near future. So we had to lay off some of the salesmen, and z
it got to a point that it was just uneconomically feasible o
to keep the model open, so I closed the model down.. I then
in the Spring, this is this early Spring, put the model up for N
sale, it was sent out to 12 or 14 brokers. I have a listing �0),
right now. I got a few responses, basically the people I was
talking to were people that came to me. ' One was a doctor who
was a dentist and for what. we had invested in the property,
which was $86 , 000, actually it' s more than that, and what he
wanted to do which was improving the model to house his--
required certain plumbing or whatever , and the expense got to
be too high, so he had to back off from the site. I had
another man interested who wanted to use it as a restaurant.
Again -a similar situation, he needed more space, he wanted
to add on, and he had to rip out walls inside for his kitchen
and so on and so forth with what we had there and what we
were asking and what he had to do for repairs again wasn't
economically feasible for this gentleman. Then, the only way
that this could be sold or let' s say economically feasible for
someone to handle would be, in this instance, Mr. and Mrs.
Gadas buying it, using it as a residence and also having
their business located there. They could then afford the car-
rying charges on the total site being that they will be living
Southold .Town Board of Appeals -50- November 15 , 1979
use. Due to the building construction and the cost of the same,
there is no current market value for this property as a pure
residence. I say this primarily because the petitioner has
$86 , 000 invested in this property. You could build or purchase
the same one-story "L-shaped" ranch located in a purely resi-
dential area for much less money. There are plenty of these
types of homes currently in the Town of Southold. As pure
business property, there is no real market for the sale of
same because due to the nature of the main building being in
the form of a residence, it would cost a lot of money to
renovate same to make for pure business uses, which I have
been through. When' the. applicant informs you that it would
'take between $15 , 000 and $20, 000 to renovate same he is being
conservative, very, very conservative. I have just completed
some recent renovations from residential to business in Southold,
and believe me this estimate is very conservative. The point z
again is that you could erect a brand new structure for less z
money than it would to take to purchase and renovate this
structure in the petition. ' As I stated previously, the mixed o
use of this property is .ideal and it would fit into the neigh- z
boyhood and would be an asset, the point being that we, there y
will be no change and on the other hand,if the appeal is not
granted, petitioner will have no choice but to prevent re-occur- n
ring vandalism by boarding the property up and the structure will H
turn from an asset to a blight on the community, which Mattituck z
has plenty of . Thank you.
n
MR: DOUGLASS : Thank you. Is there anybody else wishing to b
speak for this application?
RICHARD LARK: Mr. Chairman, Richard Lark, Main Road, Cut-
chogue, representing the applicant. One- correction I want to m
have made to the petition, is the address listed for the purchaser P,
of Pine Place, Paul ' s Pine Place on Love Lane relocated to the z
old Bohack Building. They are -no longer there on the corner of o
Main Road and Love Lane anymore. He still is an active purchaser '
in this property if the Board grants the application, but his N
address as. listed in the petition before ,you is changed since w
the date of the Petition. • I think the primary thing that the 'A
Board ' s has to keep in mind, as you have heard testimony from
Mr. Fuchs the property is yielding no return. If there ' s any
question of a fair yield, it' s now yielding zero at the present
time. And I think they ought to keep in mind also that this
is not a self-imposed hardship. When he built the model home,
he did not have to seek any variances or anything. He got a
regular building permit because, even though at the time resi-
dential use was not allowed in a 'business thing, he did not
build it at that.' He built it as he said, a model home, and
it is unique, I believe this is the only one in the Town of
Southold that ' s on a business location. And it was the result
of market conditions , which I think we 're all aware of that
happened here in the last year or so, that the building busi-
ness did not justify a model home. And, therefore, as he
testified he had to seek alternative uses for the property.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -51- 'November 15, 1979
And he has. had the property on the market for a considerable
amount of time and he has been unable to sell it as a pure
business use, as you heard because it would take a fairly
large amount of expense to renovate it to make it anywheres
suitable. And I think the other thing to keep in mind is
as I said, the property is not yielding any� fair return at
all, and it is presently costing him, as said in the applica-
tion, $790 a month for mortgage', taxes, maintenance costs
and so on and so forth. The imposition of the Zoning ordi-
nance of not allowing a residential use in a business district
for which he seeks the variance will put the petitioner in a
position of suffering a financial loss. And as stated by Mr.
Albertson, if ,the Board does grant this variance, there will
be absolutely no changes. as to what.' s there. The driveways,
are in as you saw it, on one side it' s an egress and the other '
side is an exit. There' s ample, parking in the rear. It' s set so z
that customers to the retail- type of business would be per- Z
mitted in this business district can park in the rear, and the
customers have direct access to the 400 square-foot, area of the 0
residential house, which would be used as a sales. area. , It' s a
direct walkway as to those of you who have reviewed the F3
property. So . there will be absolutely. no change from what d
is there. The fact that a residence or people who would be y
living in there, the house is built as a residence and looks H
as a residence from the road-, and there are residences imme- z -
diately next door and across the street. So it will not, change
the character of that neighborhood, . and I do not believe it . 0
will have any harmful effect on the surrounding property values. ��
As to the traffic conditions, it' s set up as a business use as
stated by Mr. Fuchs and welt he did have an active staff there �
and there is ample parking. There are presently no obsolete or
dilapidated uses. It's all modern. So within the last, what, a
1976 was when he started the construction of the place. And by i.._,
granting this variance, I don't believe the Board will be set- z
ting in my' opinion any type of a bad precedent because it is o
already there. The residences are in the neighborhood and as
Mr. Albertson said, 50% of the property, structures on the N
property would be devoted to pure business use and the other w
50% would be .to residence use, which is probably the only way 'p
he is going to be able to sell this property for probably many
years to come with the market conditions being the way they are.
So I respectfully request that you would grant this applicant
the variance for the mixed use which he seeks. Thank you.
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you, Mr. Lark.
MR. TUTHILL: The only thing they are asking for that' s
. different is that people be .allowed to live in this portion of
MR. LARK: Right. Prior to 1972 this would have been allowed.
It i,s my understanding it was 1972 when they upgraded the zoning
Ordinance, that they put an amendment through that excluded the
living bn a business property. That' s right.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -52- November 15, 1979
MR. TUTHILL: Aside from that really, the use will be no
different now except that people will be living in the living
portion of the house instead of it being empty for showing �C
purposes . z
MR. LARK: That' s correct. c�
O .
z
MR, DOUGLASS : Is there anybody wishing to speak against U'
this application? (There was no response. ) Having none, I
will make a motion that the decision on this be postponed until n `
after we finish with the balance of the appeals tonight. y
H
O
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, z
it was n
O
z
RESOLVED, that the matter of GWYNNE CONSTRUCTION CORP. , .�
Appeal No. 2634 , BE RESERVED ITS DECISION until after the
other appeals are finished tonight.
m
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen. N
rn
w
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2635. Application of VERNON
and SALLY- JACOBS, Gillette Drive, East Marion, New York, for
a. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III , Section 100-31
for permission to construct addition with insufficient sideyard. C4
Location of property: 1165 East Gillette Drive, East Marion; n
bounded north by Manor Grove Corp. , south by Schmidt, east by 0
Cedar Lane, west by East Gillette Drive.
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 11:17 P.M. by
reading the application for a. variance, legal notice of hearing o
and affidavits attesting to its publication in the local and W
official newspapers, Notice of Disapproval from the Building
Inspector, and letter from the Town Clerk that .notification to 0
adjoining property owners was made to: Manor Grove Corp. and '
Helene J.. Schmidt; fee paid $15. 00 . rn
w
MR. DOUGLASS : We have a copy of the survey showing the `.n
proposal and a copy of the County Tax Map showing the surround-
ing properties. Is there .anyone wishing to speak on behalf
of this application?
MR. JACOBS : My name is Vernon Jacobs and I 'm speaking for
myself on this application. I have with me a copy of the Marion
Manor .Code, which was the predecessor to the Southold Town Code,
and this request for a variance to the Southold Town Code is
well within the boundaries of the Marion Manor Code, which
states the combined distance of 20 feet and 5 feet for, any one
individual line, and I think that my house, the original house
was built under that code and, the increase in the bedroom size
is necessary as I have stated before. And I thank you for
hearing the petition.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -53- November 15, 1979
MR. DOUGLASS : Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
speak for this application? (There was no response. ) Is there
anyone wishing to speak against . this application?
GERRY GYLIBEY: Gerry Gylibey and I 'm here representing
Mr. Schmidt, Mrs. Schmidt. They are at this time in Europe.
I 'd like to oppose this variance because it would depreciate:
the selling value of the property.
MR. DOUGLASS : That' s it? You did well. Thank you. Yes,
Vern?
MR. JACOBS ; Just to say one thing in answer to that. I
think" that putting an addition on my property is going to raise
the value of that, and from what real estate people have told C4
me, if adjoining properties become, worth more, then that n
necessarily makes the value of other properties go up, where W
it' s not going to be right up on his property line and with
shrubbery in between. And it is vacant property. ;W- have
vacant property on both sides of my house. Thank:;you.
cu
MR.- DOUGLASS : May I. ask you just one question, Vern? Have N
you added up the ,area that all .your existing structures are_ now z
occupying on your land? o
MR. JACOBS : You mean, total square footage?.
m
w
MR: DOUGLASS: Yes, and the percentage of area that you are `n
now, covering?
MR. JACOBS : Well the original house is 1200 square feet
and the poolhouse addition is 1.00, 10 ' • x 10 ' , so that' s 1300.
MR. DOUGLASS : And, the pool?
MRS. JACOBS : That counts as a structure?
MR. JACOBS -.. The pool is 18 ' x 36% I didn't know that that
was part of the structure.
MR, DOUGLASS : Do you know what percentage that would be of
your property.
MR.. JACOBS : ' No.
MR. DOUGLASS : We ' ll figure it out then.
MR. JACOBS: , I hadn't been notified that that was the problem.
MR. DOUGLASS ; There is a percentage regulation. All right,
thank you. I will make a motion that we reserve decision on this
until after we finish the balance of the appeals tonight.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Origonis,
it was
Southold Town Board of Appeals -54- November 15 , 1979
RESOLVED, that the matter of VERNON AND SALLY JACOBE , Appeal y
No. 2635 , BE RESERVED ITS DECISION until later tonight when all
C1
the appeals have been finished. oar
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen >1
and Tuthill. 'u
ro .
m
N
N
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2636 . Application of LIM CON
Ul
ENTERPRISES , 1455 Veterans Memorial Highway, Hauppauge, New
York 11787 for a Special Exception to the Zoning Ordinance,
Article VI , Section 100-60 for permission to construct sign
exceeding height limitations. Location of property: Main Road
and Factory Avenue, Mattituck, New York; bounded north and
east by Bethany Cemetery Association, south by Main Road, west H
by Factory Avenue and Ardprop, Ihc..
n
The Acting Chairman opened the hearing at 11 :25 P.M. by 0
reading the application for special exception, legal notice z
of hearing and affidavits attesting to its publication in the z
local and official newspapers, Notice of Disapproval from the �-3
Building Inspector, and letter from the Town Clerk that notifi- b
cation to adjoining property owners was made to: ARO Proper-
ties, Inc. and Bethany Cemetery Association; fee paid $15 . 00 . H
t�
'MR: DOUGLASS : Is there anyone wishing to speak for this U'
application? (There was no response. ) Is there anyone wish-
kng to speak against this application? (There was no response. )
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was z
0
RESOLVED, that the matter of LIM CON ENTERPRISES , Appeal N
No,. 2636 BE RESERVED ZTS DECISION until after the other appeals w
have been finished tonight.
'Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs . Douglass, Grigonis ,
Tuthill and Doyen.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was
RESOLVED to recess this meeting for ten minutes.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuthill and Doyen.
The meeting was declared reconvened at 11:40 P.M.
Southold. Town Board. of- Appeals -55- November 15 , .1979
.._ ..- . ,`, c.> ask..... -t.': tr.,d ..ems. .._.. .e..1 - ,._..._.0 .;..w.•s•:L.d 3:.. :[ �6+-F:.° .�r....:a.> s::F•.'�.•.
.APPEAL NO.. 2615. Application of MATTITUCK HOLDING CO.
After investigation . and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests permission to build a new building for storage
of boats. The parcel involved has approximately 15. 2 acres and
is zoned C-Light. According to the Site Plan submitted with the
application, there are at least four other buildings on the
premises. Applicant has submitted a parking plan for all the
buildings on the subject premises which meets with the Board ' s
approval. The Board does agree with the reasoning of the
applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance would
produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship; the hard-
ship created is unique and would not be shared by all properties
alike in the immediate vicinity of the property and in the same
use district; and the variance will not change the character of
the neighborhood and will observe the spirit of the Ordinance. H
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it n
was x
x
RESOLVED, that MATTITUCK HOLDING CO. , Mill Road, Mattituck,
New York 11952, BE GRANTED a Special Exception to the Zoning Ordi-
nance, Article VIII, Section 100-80B (15) for permission to con-
Struct a boat storage Shed, SUBJECT TO .THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
n
O .
(1) That rio further bulkheading will extend to the south into
the..natural wetlands past the present constructed bulkhead.
(2) That drainage of lands around the new south storage a
building will be done so as not to allow drainage off into the
wetlands z
0
(3) That no lighting will be installed that might create a
nuisance hardship for the neighbors.
Ln
. (4) Parking will be marked out and designated as per
schedule presented by owners. Any overflow parking will be
handled by use of empty space in storage sheds.
(5) That no further structures shall be erected on the sub-
ject premises without prior approval of this Board.
Location of Property: West Mill Road, Mattituck, New York;
bounded north by Holmes and Killian, south by Foudy, Ziegler &
McGunnigle, west by Leo Grande and Inlet Ledge, Inc. , east by
Mattituck Creek.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, Tut-
hill and Doyen.
'+✓ _....e'c.r.":�r..,a L�-. -+-..a..,31r".v ..«-n.� ....._...� .,..aL._...✓ _scS lY e.. b_....R.,. .-ar,--..li..:st. .,.w._t .fit:e...a.'N..._.all.i>r.a.....•.�i'.-ati�s�l..P_...iA:.-S.Y ...:.�,..x..l.f.u.x.�i.. -
Southold .Town Board of .Appeals -56 November 15 , 1979 f
APPEAL NO. •2632 . Application of FISHERS ISLAND DEVELOPMENT CO.
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that the
applicant wishes to construct a building with..three units to house
golf course personnel during the golf season, for which the Board
had previously received a similar application and granted permis-
sion for.,•.the construction --of same on the parcel as herein applied
but different as originally placed in its application of Appeal
No. 2544. However,. the Board does agree with the reasoning of the
applicant, and the reason for this new application is to give ad-
joining property owners an opportunity to be heard on an application"
forfor the parcel upon which it is to be decided upon.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance would
produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship; the hard-
ship created is unique and would not be shared by all properties M
alike in the immediate vicinity of . the property and in the same use x
district; and the Special •Exception will not change the character
of •the neighborhood and will observe the spirit of the Ordinance.
H
C!]
. -On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it,
was z
- d
RESOLVED, that FISHERS ISLAND DEVELOPMENT CO. , Fishers Island,
New ,York 06390, ' be GRANTED a Special Exception to the Zoning Ordi-.
nance, Article III, Section 100-30 for permission to construct o
multiple dwelling with three units to. house personnel, SUBJECT 1-d
TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: Vi
• H
(1) Site-Plan Approval, ,from the* 'SoutholdTown Planning Board;
0
(2) Board of Health Approval.
(3) The newly constructed building cannot be sold or separated
from the 180 acres of - the golf course unless at least three acres w
surrounding the building is preserved. Any change of ownership or �
use 'shall be referred to the Board of Appeals for their approval. . z
p
(4) This camp will be brought up for consideration one year N
from approval date hereof to determine whether it is being prop-.,-.
erly controlled and operated. ,N
(5) That greens or screening. be provided on the north side.
(6) That the dwelling shaft not be occupied at any time by i
more than nine persons.
Location of property: Fishers Island, New York, near the
Fishers Island Country Club, more particularly known as part of
County Tax Map No. 1000-001-01-02 and part of 1000-001.-01-3.1.
f
Vote of the Board: Ayes : . Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, Tuthill
and Doyen.
-«.. •+,. „b ...«..,:.. 6 ..L... ax.A ..�aa .l�.i" .� :,. '�-.2qv L3:.��-' ;;50.'.'•' .W.u� iK.J6'`xt vM...'u.';v ,
Southold Town ..Board 'of' Appeal s -5.7 November .15, 19.79
APPEAL NO. 2613. Application -of KIWANIS CLUB OF' SOUTHOLD.
After, investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests permission to place the Old Schoolhouse Building
on this residential premises for charity use. The Board agrees
with the reasoning of the applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance would
produce practical difficulties and unnecessary hardship; the
- hardship created. is unique and would .not be shared by all proper-
ties alike in the immediate vicinity of. the property and . in the
same use district; and the variance will not change the character
of the neighborhood and, will observe the spirit of the Ordinance: z
H
On motion made by .Mr. Grigonis, seconded by Mr.. Douglass, it n
was L
RESOLVED, that KIWANIS CLUB OF SOUTHOLD, Box 150, Peconic, New p
York 11958 , be GRANTED. a Special Exception to . the Zoning Ordinance,_
Article III, Section 100-30B (4) for permission to place building o
for charity use in a residential district, SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOW- a
ING CONDITIONS: x
0
(1)' That off-street parking facilities be made available, d
such as paving, gravel, etc on the premises.
(2) Approval of. the. Suffolk County Planning Commission. m
Location of property: Lower Road' and Route 25, Southold, New z
York; bounded north by Lower Road, south by Route 25, west 'by o
Route, 25, east by Goldsmith.
N
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis', Doyen
and Tuthill.
- ;��.I?.E&L-_--]>TQ:.-2Fa��3-.---�Ap�`�`e`a-� �rr--c3f-:E•Ii`�IrT---1�:'""LENIS���.�.�.._.,���.� �_. _�_..�,.--------��-
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that the �
applicant wishes to construct a building with an insufficient M
rearyard setback of 33-1/2 feet. However; in the sketch sub- �'
mitted with the application, the proposed dwelling shows a o
insufficient frontyard setback of 49 ' 9" , for which no applica-
tion has been made for. Therefore, the Board agrees with the
reasoning of a rearyard setback, to be not less than 33 feet
(not the 33-1/2 feet as proposed) . o
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and .would not be shared by all . ,
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of the property .
and in the same use district; and the variance will not change
the character of the neighborhood and will observe the spirit
of the Ordinance.
ARp-eals� �4 5 8 ember
_ _ No�z
on$motet on•m debJ y Nil°anss° seconde -�'k5pIm :'Grigonis,
it was
RESOLVED, that. EILEEN M. LEMBECK, 447 Greene Avenue, Say
Ville, New York 11782, be GRANTED a Variance to the Zoning
Ordinance Article III Section 100-31 for permission to con- r'
struct dwelling with insufficient rearyard setback, SUBJECT
TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS _ -
(1) That the building be set back- from the rearyar_d fine
not less than . 33 feet;
(2) That all other setbacks conform to .the Zoning Code,
Location of property: Deerfoot Path, Cutchogue, New York; :0.
bounded north by Fitzpatrick, east by Deerfoot Path, south by .
Jester, west by Leskody. NJ• rn
Vote of the Board: ' Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, P.
Tuthill and Doyen. _
r
.__ ._ 1PPEAL N(3: 2 631 P3cori,..e f,- Z �IET-. HALVERS.ON.,._...:_- .:_ .._.._...._: ......_. ,�_._....._,.._.
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the " ,z
applicant i.s requesting sideyard setbacks from the northerly line
.13 feet -and from the southerly line 8 feet. The southerly ho
house -has an insufficient sideyard, - and it is noted that the
established frontyard in the immediate area is 35 feet from the P)
front -line,-; which the applicant also proposes but is not required ~
to apply for. .. The Board- will agree with the reasoning of the o,
applicant only if the sideyards as proposed were reversed, the
.. 13 feet from the southerly line, and 8 feet from the northerly tv
line due- to the reason that the southerly house also has an
insufficient sideyard, and"the northerly parcel has more than �-
.. the required sideyard area:
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance -
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of the property and
in the same use district; and the variance will not change the
character of the neighborhood and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance..
On motion made by 'Mr. Grigonis, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it
was o
RESOLVED, that JANET HALVERSON, c/o A. Tyrrell, Box 14,
Orient, New York 11957, BE GRANTED a Variance to the Zoning
Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-31 for permission to con-
struct dwelling with insufficient sideyards, SUBJECT TO THE
FOLLOWING CONDITION:
c. < :• _
Southold Town 'Board ''of Appeals' -59- November 15 :° 1979 :.
That the dwelling not be constructed closer than 13 feet
from the southerly boundary line and not less than 8 feet from x
the northerly boundary line and be set back to the average es- C
tablished frontyard setback line.
Location of property: Founders Path, Southold, New York, 0
Filed Map 0834 , Lot #67; bounded north by Diana, south by Tempel, z
east by Shanks, west. by Founders Path. .
ro
0
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis and
Doyen. Negative Vote: Messr. Tuthill.
. N
al
_ W
Fxj
APPEAL NO. 2633 . Application of DELMER F. _ NUHFER.
After investi5at�,ori and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant is requesting permission to set off Bayside Terrace
Subdivision .Lot #15 from. Subdivision Lot #6 as was originally
subdivided before they purchased the properties. Because both z
parcels have. same ownership, they are considered "merged and o
one lot. " The Board .agrees with the reasoning of the applicant.
N
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance W
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of the property and
in the same use district; and the variance will not change the
character of the neighborhood and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr_ . Grigonis,
it was
RESOLVED, that DELMER NUHFER, 600 Cedar Drive, Southold, New
York 11971, BE GRANTED a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance,
Article III, Section 100-31 for permission to divide property
with insufficient area and width. Location of property:
600 Cedar Drive, Southold, New York; hounded north by Boggiano,
south by Bloore & Thilberg, east by Summer Lane, west by Cedar
Avenue.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs.- Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.
Southold. Town ,Board of :Appeals:. �60. November. 15 ; 1979
APPEAL NO.2� 4.--`A�pTication of :GWYNNE CONSTRUCTION CORP.
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests permission to use the model home living area
for residential use :.and to utilize the two-car garage as a showroom-
office space, and the garage at the rear of the property for storage
of his products. The Board does agree with the reasoning of the
applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance would .
produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship; the hardship z
created is unique and would not be shared by all the properties r�
.alike in the immediate vicinity of the property and in the same use n
district; and the variance will not change the character of the 0
z
neighborhood and will observe the spirit of the Ordinance.
F3
On motion made by Mr. Grigonis, seconded by Mr: Douglass, it n
was y
r
0
RESOLVED, that the applicant, GWYNNE CONSTRUCTION CORP. , 163A z
Montauk Highway West, Hampton Bays, New York, be GRANTED a Variance n
to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VII, Section 100-70 for permission ro
to change use to include residential use in B-1 Zone, SUBJECT TO.
THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
(1) That any business conducted on the premises shall be con--
ducted by the person (s) , residing in the dwellingon the premises;
(2) ' Approval of •the - Suffolk County Planning Commission-. o
Location of property: 6355 Main Road, Laurel, New York;
bounded.'. north by Mattituck Colding Co. , south by Maston,- east
by Main Road, west by Long Island Railroad:
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.:
Sguthold Town Board of Appeals- '=61 , . , November 15 19.79
APPEAL_ NO. 2635`. Application of VERNON AND SALLY- JACOBS . ,
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicants are requesting a sideyard setback of approximately y
eight feet, �total sideyard's approximately 21 feet for construe- n
- tion of an addition to be used as an additional bedroom. However, obi.
due to the fact that if this addition was constructed, the total U, s
lot area occupied would be more than the maximum requirement of
twenty percent (20%) , the Board does not agree with the reasoning
of the applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would not produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is ' not unique and would not' be shared by
all properties alike in the ,immediate vicinity of the property o '
and in the same use district; and the variance will change the �x -
character of the neighborhood and will not observe the spirit 0
of the Ordinance. uWj
On motion made by Mr. Doyen, seconded by Mr. Grigonis it
was
RESOLVED, that VERNON and SALLY JACOBS, 1165 East Gillette
Drive, East Marion New York 11939, BE DENIED a Variance to the
zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-31, Bulk and Park
Schedule, WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
Location ,of property: 1165 East Gillette Drive, East Marion,
New York; bounded north by Manor Grove Corp. , south by Schmidt,
east by Cedar Lane, west'.by 'East Gillette Drive.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Douglass, Grigonis,
Tuth .0 and Doyen.
Y
I
Southold Town Board of Appeals -62- November 15, 1979
4
s
f
APPEAL NO. 2636 . Application of LIM CON ENTERPRISES.
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant is requesting an on-premises sign in excess of the
height limitations of the Southold Town Code, but less than the
total sign area limitations, to wit, 9 ' L x 8 ' H totaling 72
'square feet in area. The Board agrees with the reasoning of
the applicant.
H
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship; o
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared by all z
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of the property and W
n the same use district; and the variance will not change the y
character of the neighborhood and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance. ro
110
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Tuthill, it Cn
was td
RESOLvED-, that LIM CON ENTERPRISES , 1455 Veterans Memorial �
Highwaye Hauppauge, New York, BE GRANTED a Special Exception to 1-0
thy, Zoning Ordinance, Article VI, Section 100-60C (2) for permis- a
s: `on to construct sign exceeding height limitations SUBJECT TO ~
THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS : ' o
(1) That the height shall not exceed 8 feet and the width
shall not exceed 9 feet; the -total square footage shall not
exceed 72 square feet; a
(2) That the sign shall conform in all other respects with
the provisions of the Zoning Code;
(3) That the sign shall at all times remain in good repair;
(4) That in the event any of the conditions imposed herein
shall not be complied with or in the event that said sign at_
any time in the future violates any of the provisions of the
Zoning Code, upon ten days ' written notice to the owner the
Board of Appeals may revoke the approval hereby granted;
(5) Approval of the Suffolk CountyPlanning Commission.
Location of property: Main Road and Factory Avenue, Matti-
tuck, New York; bounded north and east by Bethany Cemetery As-
sociation, south by Main Road, west by Factory Avenue and Ard-
prop Inc. County Tax Map Item No. 1000-142-01-26 .
Vote of the Board; Ayes : Messrs. Douglass , Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -63- November 15 , 1979
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it
was
RESOLVED, that in the matter of the application of EMANUEL M. z
KONTOKOSTA, Appeal No. 2579 , this Board has under consideration y
an appeal of EMANUEL M. KONTOKOSTA, represented by his attorney, 0 -
Richard F. Lark, Esq. , Main Road, Cutchogue, New York 11935 , o
involving property located at Shipyard Lane, East Marion, New
York, bounded on the north by Parkside Heights Co. , east by �01
Shipyard Lane, south by Gardiners Bay, west by Parkside Heights >1
Co. , and for which permission is requested to erect a 28-unit
ro
apartment complex with 21 motel units and a coffee shop pur- w
suant to Article V, Section 100-50 , and
.WHEREAS, a large portion of said property is located in a o .1
flood plain, and accordingly is a Type I Action and which may
have a significant effect upon the environment; Ln
NOW THEREFORE be it RESOLVED, that the applicant be required
to complete and file with this Board an Environmental Assessment
in the Long Form for consideration by this Board.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs . Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was
RESOLVED, that the Minutes of the October 11 , 1979 meeting
be approved and that the Minutes of the September 27 , 1979
meeting also be approved.
Vote of the Board: Ayes : Messrs . Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.
On motion made by Mr. Douglass, seconded by Mr. Grigonis,
it was .
RESOLVED, that the next meeting of the Southold Town Board
of Appeals will be held on Thursday, December 6 , 1979 at 7 : 30
o 'clock P.M. , and that the following times be set as the time
of hearing upon the following applications:
7 :40 P.M. Recessed hearing. Application of PHILIP A.
WENZEL, Appeal No. 2598 .
7 :50 P.M. Recessed hearing. Application of RALPH H.
DICKINSON, Appeal No. 2629 .
8.:.05 P.M. Public -Hearing. Application of Vincent J. Acunto,
Appeal No. 2637 .
. $quthold Town Board of Appeals -64- November 15 , 1979
8 :10 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of W. Chet VanDyne,
Appeal No. 2644 .
8 : 20 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of Numzio Reale,
Appeal No. 2645.
8 : 30 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of Michelle Becker
d/b/a Michelle ' s Beauty Salon, Appeal No. 2643 .
8 :40 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of William Heins,
Appeal No. 2642 .
8 :45 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of J.B. Hartsfield,
Appeal No. 2641.
8 :55 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of John Louis Mount-
zouros, Appeal No. 2639 .
9: 05 -P.M. Public Hearing. Application of Salvatore Loria,
Appeal No. 2646 .
9:15 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of Herbert and Kath-
leen Muncy, Appeal No. 2638 .
2:30 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of Ralph Martin, Jr. ,
Appeal No. 2647 .
9.:40 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of Grace KeYoung Park,
Appeal No. 2640.
9:50 P.M. Public Hearing. Application of. JoAnn and Frank
Rizzo, Appeal No. 2648 .
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs.' Douglass, Grigonis, Doyen
and Tuthill.
On. motion made by Mr. Douglass , seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED, that the meeting be declared closed at 1 : 00 o 'clock
A.M. , November 16 , 1979 .
Respectfully submitted,
APPOVEn,a����� Linda F. Kowalski, Secretary
Oivc� Chairm Board of eats