HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/03/1988-FI 247
SOUTHOLD: ,TOWN, BOARD.
FISHERS ISLAND
AUGUST 3, 1988
The.. Southold Town Board,, along with elected and appointed officials of the Town
of Southold, County of Suffolk, and -State of New York, departed from Claudio's Dock,
Greenport•, at 9:00 A.M. , Wednesday, August 3, 1988',, aboard the M/V Munnatawket,
for their annual trip' to Fishers Island. The. boat arrived at 11 :00 A.M. at Fishers
Island. 12:00 Noon, lunch was served at dock side.
REGULAR, MEETING
1 :00 P..M.
A Regular Meeting of the Southold .Town Board was held on Wednesday, August
3, 1988, at the Fishers Island School, Fishers Island, New York. Supervisor Murphy
opened the meeting at 1 :00 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
Pregent: Supervisor Francis J. Murphy-
Justice Raymond W. Edwards
Councilwoman Jean W. Cochran
Councilwoman Ruth D. Oliva
Town Clerk Judith T. Terry
Assistant Town Attorney Robert H. Berntsson
Absent: Councilman George .L. Penny IV
Councilwoman Ellen M. Larsen
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : I would like to welcome you all here and thank you, the-
residents of Fishers Island, for having us, and I would like to officially call this
regular Southold Town 'Board meeting to order. The first order of business is a
resolution approving the minutes of the July 26th, 1988 Town Board meeting.
Moved by Councilwoman Cochran, seconded by Councilwoman Oliva, it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the Regular Southold Town Board Meeting held on
July 26, 1988 be and hereby are approved.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilwoman Cochran,
Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : We have four quick- resolutions that we'll go into first and
take care of- and then we'll .introduce our guests and open the meeting up to you
people. The first is a resolution to authorize individuals in the Town to attend an
Office Products Seminar.
2 `F V AUGUST 3, 1988
1.-Moved by Councilwoman Cochran, seconded by Justice Edwards, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes the follow-
ing individuals to attend an Office Products Seminar on the new A/S400 at IBM's Guided
Learnign Center, Jericho, New York, and use a Town Vehicle for transportation:
August 4, 1988 - 9:00 A.M: - 12:00 P.M. - Christine Stulsky and Joan Schneider
August 8, 1988 - 1 :00 P.M. - 4:00 P.M. - Jill Thorp and Claire Glew.
1.-Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilwoman Cochran,
Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Number 2 is a budget modification, General Fund - Whole
Town.
JUSTICE EDWARDS: Before I read this I want to recognize the"Mosquito Girls"
sitting in the back there. Put your hands up, please. These are the girls that
are doing a terrific job out here.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : We need this resolution to make sure you get paid.
JUSTICE EDWARDS : And I also want to say that the truck that they've been using
has decided to give up and we're bringing over a police cruiser for them for the
rest of the summer.
2.-Moved by Justice Edwards, seconded by Councilwoman Cochran, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes the follow-
ing, 1988. Budget.modification to the General Fund - Whole Town :
To: A4010. 1 Public Health, Personal Services $ 2, 000.00
From: A1990.4 .Contingent, Contractual Expenses $ 2, 000.00
Additional allocation for the Fishers Island Safet BTI Mosquito Control Program to
increase General Fund. budget from $5,000. 00 to $7,000. 00 pursuant to Town Board
resolution of May 17, 1988.
2.-Vote .of the .Town Board,: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilwoman Cochran,
Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy.
This:resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Number 3 is to accept a proposal for the Fishers Island
Wastewater Disposal System closeout.
3.-Moved. by Jsu.tice Edwards, seconded by Councilwoman Oliva, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs
Supervisor .Francis J . Murphy to execute the acceptance of A. R. Lombardi Associates,
Inc. proposal to complete the Construction Grant Closeout package for the Fishers
Island Wastewater Disposal System, all in accordance with the proposal dated July
27, 1988.
3.-Vote of the .Town ,Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilwoman Cochran,
Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: And Number 4 is to terminate a contract.
4.-Moved by Councilwoman Oliva, seconded by Justice Edwards,
WHEREAS, the Town of Southold and Szepatowski Associates, Inc. entered into a
subcontract dated the 1st day of July, 1986, and executed by the Supervisor of the
Town of Southold on the 13th day of February, 1987, wherein Szepatowski Associates,
Inc. were to perform services pertaining to the Town of Southold's Local Waterfront
Revitalization Program; and
WHEREAS-, the Town o:f-. S.outho.ld finds just cause to terminate said subcontract
pursuant to paragraph 10. (a) of said' subcontract; now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby directs the Super-
visor of the Town of Southold to notify,in writing .by registered mail, Szepatowski
Associates, Inc. that said subcontract is terminated, and that such termination shall
be effective five days following receipt of said notice by Szepatowski Associates,
Inc., all according to paragraph 10. (a) of said subcontract.
4.-Vote .of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilwoman Cochran,
Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Okay, now we can move on to the more pleasant part of
the..meeting, the whole reason we came over here. I would like to thank you for
having us.. (Supervisor Murphy introducted the Town Board, Town Clerk., and
Assistant Town Attorney.) Ellen Larsen and George Penny could not be here today.
They're very sorry they weren't able to make it. At this time I would like to ask
if any of the Councilmen would like to have anything to say. Ruth?
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Yes, Ellen Larsen especially asked me to send her regrets
that she could not be with you today, but she wanted me to add to my comments
that we really have enjoyed reading the Fishers Island Gazette. It has really kept
AUGUST 3, 1988 249
us up to date on what's•happeni,n;g,, her_e,.:at-.,Fishers ,;l-,stand, and we can't compliment
the Fishers Island Civic 'Associatiori anti the Fishers Island Conservancy for the fine
work that they have been doing in the past couple of years. It has been most
appreciated in the Town of Southold because we know what your needs and desires
are. And we thank you very much. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Jean?
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Sure. I'd like to say, Hi. It'.s nice to be back with
you again. For the few years that I've come over here to Fishers Island I have
not had the opportunity to see the Ferguson Museum and .I was determined this year
that when I got here this year I was going to go see the museum. Well, Judge Edwards
was very nice in giving us a lift over, but he forgot that we had .to come back so
some of us made the walk in this hot temperature. But I was very impressed. I'm
involved in D.U. ,_so I was very happy to see the beautiful, beautiful water fowl and
birds that you have on display. In addition, serving as treasurer of the Indian
Museum in Southold for the past five years we're a little envious of the dig that
you had just recently in the last several years I believe, and it's not on display
yet. I understand you're looking perhaps to put an addition on the building and
I think it's great that we do these things. 11m. interested in it.- because I think it's
very important to preserve our cultural heritage. . So good luck if you put your
addition on and 1 look forward to the next time I'm over in seeing the next display
of points, arrowheads, axes and so forth. Thank you for letting us join you today.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Raymond, would you like to say anything.
JUSTICE EDWARDS : Yes, thank you, Frank. 11m. glad you people could make it
over here in the fog and now you know some of the problems I have getting over
to see you, and regarding the museum, Charlie Ferguson, who's in the back there,
I think he told me a couple of weeks ago that he did get his money that was:.allocated
to the museum this year and they were very grateful.. I think it's the first time
that they had applied for it and it was very nice that the Board did approve that,
and I think that's just the beginning of more probably to come. Good to see the
rest 'of the people here and I hope the day goes well. Thank you, Frank.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Ray. Okay, at this time I would like to introduce
some of the special guests, and I would like to thank all of the visitors who came
over on the boat with us for taking the time out of their day to come over to Fishers
Island. I think through these meetings we've been able to accomplish quite a bit
over the 'years in getting cooperation from the various County and State departments.
I notice Motor. Vehicle were out giving tests today. Suffolk County Health Department
was around checking on the wells that we're cooperating on. I think the relationship
has been very good with Fishers Island, Southold Town, New York State and Suffolk
County and this is the way government should act. Fishers Island is a special place. .
It is an island twenty miles away from the mainland of Southold, and we're not forgetting,
and '.I think this is what is so important. So I do like to thank these people who
did take time out. of their day,t:.b.usy day schedule, to come over here. A lot of
people wanted to come, they weren't able to. You do have a .list of everybody here
so if you want to contract a special person you'll be able to do it after the meeting.
I- would like to thank George Hockbrueckner, our Congressman, for sending over
his 'representative, Pat Howley. George is coming over here himself to, talk with
myself,l :.b:elieve on the- 20th, to talk to the Garbage District on a problem that's all
over Suffolk County, all over the State. New York State Senator Ken LaValle and
Assemblyman Joe Sawicki were not able to come. They just finished a marathon session
the other night, about. 2:30 in the morning. I'm sure they probably didn't even
get back to their rooms until: 6:00 o'clock in the morning, but I do thank Mary Fallon
for coming, representing Ken, and Joe Sawicki's great Aide Pat Acampora, for coming
here. The Suffolk County Executive was very sorry he couldn't come, but he did
send over a very special person, one person to represent him, and that's a person
who the people on Fishers Island know very well.. She used to work for the Town,
but she went on to bigger and better things; our own Chris Hogan. Our Sheiff
Eugene Dooley is here, Suffolk County. Deputy Police Commissioner Bill McBride,
a good friend of Southold Town, is here also. Shelter Island Town is represented
by the Supervisor Jeff Simes, and one of the Councilmen Lou Price, a good friend
of Southold. The Village of Greenport is represented today, very happily, we're
glad to have Mayor Hubbard here, and one of his board members Gail Horton, and
Bill Gillolly. Thank you for coming out. You do have the list. I again thank every-
body for coming, the press, everyone here. I think it's very good. So I don't
want to take up any more time. I think we've made very good progress on Fishers
Island, but let's hear what your concerns are. If we could answer today we will.
If we have to do some research we'll get back to you, to anybody. So why don't
we open it up to questions. If you have anything of the Town Board or any of the
group. Brad.
250 AUGUST 3, 1988
BRAD BURNHAM: Yes, Frank, I'm Brad Burnham and I have been president of the
Civic Association, and we now have a new president as of the 23rd of July, Speedy
Mettler. I am still on the Board and I report now to Speedy. However, over the
last two years we have put together the Fishers Island Growth Plan. Speedy has
worked diligently on the committee,;:as I have, and 31 other people, we had this
revised just in the last month and presented it at the 23rd meeting on the 23rd
of July. I have given copies of this growth plan to all of the members of the Board
and our good attorney here and Judy, however, I want to make sure anybody else
who would like a copy--we've got plenty here--after the meeting you can get a copy.
1 will say that what it basically does is gives us three mandates, three major mandates.
One,is we've got to do what we can to strengthen the winter population of Fishers
Island. Two,. we"ve got to do what we can to slow down the growth of the summer
population. And three, we've got to protect our natural environment. So I know
that we have a lot of TruStees,:'and Chuck Hamilton and various other people out .
in hitherland today trying to make inspections and to help us with that latter part,
protect the natural environment. Ray Edwards, of course, will be guided.through
a large degree in his decisions in his work with you by the growth plan. And so
want to make sure everyone knew that it existed. I do have a few little other
things. '.You mentioned the garbage meeting for the citizens of Fishers Island. Every-
body seems to be interested in garbage. As a matter of fact one of our directors,
Porter Garth,:- said one time, "Garbage will always be you". And so we do have
this meeting on the 20th and our Congressman George Hockbrueckner has been good
enough to say he would come over and apparently he was on the waste committee
when he was in the Assembly, and Frank is good enough to come as well,--and it
will be a good meeting.; good opportunity to air any thoughts you might have relevant
to garbage. It will be at 4:00 o'clock in ' the afternoon on the 20th and it *will. be
jointly sponsored by the Conservancy, the Civic Association, and of course the
Garbage District and Refuse Commissioners. I also wanted to thank the Board for
hiring Larry Penny. Larry Penny is an expert and he's. .been here several times.
It's .working very smoothly, he and hisassistant John Aldred, with the Township
Trustees, and I think they've been helpful and he is probably the most knowledgeable
person on freshwater wetlands that we possibly could have hired. So we're glad
that he aboard. I would .also like to mention that we are very plesed to have started,
as a result of discussions in an open meeting--what we call a PAC, Police Advisory
Committee. We've had several meetings with Chief Winters and the Police Advisory
Committee is headed up by Pat Baker. Pat Baker, would you raise your hand so
in case anybody doesn't know who you are. There she is,.-right there. Pat Baker
has got a committee of seventeen. The basic concept is that the troopers and the
troopers and the constables will have some organization, some group to go to, and
the citizens will have some group to go to--a catalytic agent, and I think that is
working well. thanks to Pat. I also would like to ask two questions, and then
will sit down. We need to have, in the worst possible way, this 2% transfer tax
on Fishers Island, and we need to get the 2% money back to Fishers Island to use
to purchase land and take' it out of the market. I 'd like to ask--have, you tell us�
if you could anything about that. And secondly, I would like--and progress of
that that, and anything we can do to help..it� I'd like to ask you, Frank, to tell
us anything that you could about how we.:can have--notean ;offi.tial:-STOP .Program,
but some type of a program to collect various types of pesticides and toxic materials
which everybody has in their garage and .everybody's scared to death about these
days. . Thank you..
SUPERVISOR MURPHY :• Thank you, Brad. First I would like to thank you very
much on behalf of the Town Board for your work with the Civic Association. It's
been fantastic; Your. new president is following a tough act there and I think you've
done an excellent job and the people on Fishers Island I think are very lucky to
have somebody like you here. Your first question, a little update on the Land Trans-
fer. Tax. That's .why Ken LaV,alle and Joe didn't get to bed until 6:00 o'clock yesterday
morning. They did go back into session. Nothing happened on our Land Transfer
Tax yet. It seems to be stalled in a political fight with the Governor and Suffolk
County and anything for Suffolk County right now on account of Shoreham is not
going to go through. Hopefully that issue will be resolved shortly. I do understa
the Assembly-is going to be called back in about two weeks we're told. It will act
on it then, hopefully positively, and the Senate, I. believe, will have to come back
for a joint meeting to finalize whatever joint bills they're going to need to pass this
year just to keep the State going. The had hired--the East End Supervisor's Associa-
tion, all the Towns kicked in--we paid $3,000 towards the cost of a lobbyist, a registere(
lobbyist, . and we understand from him that it does look very good. We probably
would have had the bill passed in the Assembly Tuesday if it wasn't for this fight
with the Governor and some legislators in Suffolk County. Our STOP Program.
Happy to say Southold Town is the first Town in New York State to be allowed to
collect household hazardous waste. It seems the regulations are so you could go
down to the corner grocery store or the hardware store and buy all of these chemicals,
packed any way they want, taken home any way they want, but when you take
them to the landfill to throw them out, if we start to collecting them we're very
highly regulated. We do have a program--we did lobby the DEC and the State did
change the regulations to allow this. We're the first Town in New York State to
have a program like this. There's a building there, it's open seven days a week,
AUGUST 3, 1988 251
360 days a year, and you're welcome to bring" over^ whatever you have on Fishers
Island to our building there. You are part of Southold Town. Everyone on Fishers
I stand is welcome to use that facility. . It. has to be brought there. What we do
then is classify it in the different types. There's six different barrels basically,
or types of chemicals. We pack them and dispose of them properly. So you're
welcome to--however you want: to bring them over to our place--you're welcome to
do it.
BRAD BURNHAM: This is probably not the best place, Frank, but while we've
got John here, why don't we just discuss it for a second. Is there any reason,
John, that the Conservancy wouldn't like to take that program on?
JOHN. THATCHER: John, we had already done so we thought, and there is a problem.
The problem is getting it over to the mainland of Long Island. This is the key
right here,. because this is hazardous. waste and it does require a special contractor
who has to have all kinds of permits, who has to have all kind of permission, and
this is not easy to arrange. The Conservancy has the committee formed currently
to deal with this on this end, and this committee will put out publicity, 'we'll help
in anyi,.way\we can, but we are not technically capable, obviously, not being that
kind of engineers, of getting it to Southold. So this is where we are now. We
would be delighted to have this kind of a program, and I think perhaps later on
we want to work with all of the Town Board to make sure that we can get our toxic
waste over to Southold properly and at minimum expense. -it's going to cost money,
1 realize that. Uhfortunately there's.--,.no other way out.
COUNCILWOMAN. OLIVA: Rave )you spoken to Jim McMahon about it?
JOHN THATCHER : Yes, I have, Ruth, very definitely so, and he's more than .-willing
to do what he can,. but there apparently..--is a financial situation involved that could
perhaps could. be remedied in next year's budget, I don't know. This. is something
Would leave up to you,. but. I know that just.about everyone on the Island, from
Judge Edwards on down would be delighted to get rid of the toxic waste which frankly
has. been accumulating here--old paint cans, etcetera, for a number of years.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: All over.
JOHN THATCHER: Yes, all over. But Southold does have that building, Frank,
and we would like to work with you very, very much to remove any obstacles, financial
or technical.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Have you spoken to anybody at the DEC, like Bob Becker?
JOHN THATCHER : Yes.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA.:: And: what did he say?
JOHN THATCHER: He said, you're going to need special permits.
COUNCI LWOMAN' COCHRAN: Because you're hauling hazardous waste.
JOHN THATCHER: Exactly.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN : So you have to have the proper permits and so on
and so forth, but I would think that part of it could be solved. I think the hardest
part is going to be financial, because it's going to be extremely--I know what it
cost us to have our. STOP one-day program in Southold, and to haul. it, because
of your, location and so forth, over State lines and so forth, it's going to take a
while to organize and make happen,, but it will. be worthwhile when it does.
JOHN. .THATCHER: Yes. We have two co-chairmen, .Charlie Stepanik and Pat Faulkner.
We have three or four assistants all ready to do. Everything is set.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: 1 think in' the. long run, even though the expense might
be. there, I think it's .more important to get rid of it and dispose of it safely then
having somebody just throw it in the dump and contaminating your, I'm sure your
very fragile aquifer system that you have here on Fishers Island.
JOHN THATCHER: Right, so we want to do this right and we want to do this with
you. So we will work, hopefully, hand in hand to make sure that's done.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN : And we'll work with you also.
JOHN THATCHER : Many thanks.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Jim, do you have a comment?
252 AUGUST 3, 1988
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATOR McMAHON : Just, Frank, in my
conversations with the DEC, and I'll check again to verify, but there's a possibility
that the DEC will allow our Bay Constable to--in our big Privateer--to transport
the stuff from Fishers Island in' sealed drums.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: . That's .a great solution if we can make it happen,
Jim.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATOR McMAHON : I think that's a possibility.
JOHN THATCHER: . Oh, that would. be wonderful.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATOR McMAHON: It wasn't possible, I don'
believe to bring it through Connecticut. and on a public ferry, but it's possible,
maybe, to. bring it .over through our Bay Constable.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: You'll follow through with that, Jim?
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATOR McMAHON : Yes.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: See that, John, nothing is easy, but you people have to
realize an individual can bring their own garbage and their own household waste
to Southold Is. .landfill if you want to.
JOHN THATCHER : No, we understand, Frank. But for our purposes it's impractical.
We need someone to take it over for us, and Jim's suggestion opens a window, a
very. big one too.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes, Brad.
BRAD BURNHAM: Well, it sounds then, John, you're all set up here, so all we
have to know is whether this could. be done and, Ray, you can. get to John.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Jim will follow through. Okay, any other questions?
BRAD BURNHAM : Frank, excuse me for a second, but.on the 20 transfer tax
don't jike to put yfou on„a. spot--I .mean I really do, but on that I want to be sure
that number one l...think we should know who our people should write to if we shout
write to anybody. That's number one. And number two, I want to make sure--
know Ray will be pushing for it, but that the monies involved in transfers on
Fishers Island come back to Fishers Island.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: That would. be taken care of in the Local Law.that is part
of the enabling, legislation if we ever get it. We would have a Local Law and it
would spell that out in it, and that is 'subjected to an mandatory referendum by
the people in the Town, Fishers Island, all of us. The players in the game, the
very important players is our good friend Ken LaValle who has worked very, very
hard. Our Assemblymen in these five east end towns, Joe Sawicki, John Behan
and Bill Bianchi. A.11 three are working extremely hard for this. Any letters--if
you know anyone personally call them up, support them, send them a letter, send
them a telegram, how important it is. There's a tremendous lobbying effort against
this. bill by the real estate interests. Anyone else? John.
JOHN THATCHER: Frank, speaking now as--I did before too--but as President
of the Fishers Island Conservancy, I would like to thank this entire Town Board
for its cooperation, its help and its invaluable suggestions this year on a variety
of issues. As you well know we have a garbage study out- wn hich will be covered
in that meeting on the .20th. We also want to thank you very much for taking care
of our great mosquito workers in the back. because their truck has broken down
and this 'is what good local government is all about, and I just wanted to express
our thanks. We have another program going on, the water study, you've been
informed on that. That will be ongoing as well. And your willingness to help us
on the STOP day makes this day very much a go day. I just wanted to thank you
all on behalf of the Conservancy very much. It's appreciated.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Thank you, John. We try. I think you've got some very,
very good people, very concerned people on,Fishers Island which really helps. It
makes our job a lot better and various departments in the Town and in the County
and the State to work when you have cooperation. Anyone else? Yes, ma'am.
PEGGY CLAVI N : I hesitate to bring it up because I know you'll have an in--:depth
meeting on August 20th, but I'm just curious as to why the Town decided to go
with composting rather than incinerators for garbage, since we have been talking
about having an incinerator built here, and I wonder if anyone could speak to that?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Peggy, I could speak and if any of the Town Board members
would like to. One of the main reasons: I think is a much better recycling effort
AUGUST 3, 1988 253
to take organic matter 'from the waste `stream and put it back into the soil. You're
doing a hundred percent recycling. It's a system where we can take out contaminants
so that we won't have contaminated compost. It's going to be very easy to do that.
It's a very safe system. It's less labor intensified, and environmentally it probably
is one of the safest ways to go, far better. then the exhaust from an incinerator.
When you mass burn anything you're asking for trouble. That is basically the reason.
I think we have an ideal population size and assessment in the Town to where we
could do a decent program. Myself and many Town Board members, have traveled
all over the country looking at different systems, looking at incinerators, looking
at composting, looking at other methods, and we spent a lot of time and many hours
of traveling, many hours of talking to people, listening to proposals on various
things, and this is what we came up with. We are in the stage now, we have an
RFP issued, which is a Request for a Proposal. We have a first hearing date of
August 11th, and at that time we will answer specific questions from vendors. We
had about 24 firms ask for the RFP. We will then finalize the RFP for each vendor
to answer his specific questions. We don't know how many are going-to- come to
this meeting. I know we'll probably have six or eight minimum, probably more than
that. They will have one month after that to give their final proposal on how they
intend to do it, approximate cost. With the bidding laws we don't have to take
the lowest bidder for this type of work. We can negotiate a contract. We will then
sit down with probably two or three of the people that we think is the most promising
technology to tie into our existing landfill and we'll go from there. Hopefully we'll
have a contract signed by the end of the year and construction start early next
year and we should hit the 1990 date with a little bit of luck right on target.
PEGGY CLAVI N: Thank you. Is Fishers Island too small to consider going into
the same kind of thing?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: To compost?
PEGGY CLAVIN: Yes.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: No, you could do it. Sure. Or you could transport it
over to Southold. O-ne of the main disadvantages in a small community that I feel
in an incinerator, is an incinerator has to warm up to a certain temperature to burn
properly, and then it should burn constantly. If you're constantly turning it off
it cools down and you have a tremendous amount of damage done to the grates,
to the whole system. That's one of the disadvantages of an incinerator and on a
small scale. There are many others, but that's probably one of them. You could,
yes, put a compost system in here, or you could come over to Southold. Anyone
else have a question? Ray?
JUSTICE EDWARDS : I'm wondering, Frank, .if it would be possible to get Harold
Berger over here on the 20th, because he had a meeting with Riverhead, and I
don't know how many people read the Traveler-Watchman article in there, and he
is for incineration and against composting, and I would certainly like to get him
over here. so we can get the whole picture on the 20th.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : I don't think that's so. I think some of the comments were
taken out of context.
JUSTICE EDWARDS : Well, let's get him over herb.'.and find out.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I'll ask him if he can come that day, or we will schedule
another date.
JUSTICE EDWARDS : I would certainly like to get him over here.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : We'll try. He actually is not the man, it would be one
Paul Roth or one of those people.
JUSTICE EDWARDS : But he has a lot of clout there, Frank.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: But he's just the leader so to speak. You would want
him plus one of the people who are into solid waste. Yes, Mary.
MARY F.ALLON, representing Senator LaValle: Yes, Frank, thank you. I just would
like to say on behalf of Senator LaValle I know he would deeply appreciate a letter
on the land tax. Also I think letters could be address at this point to Senator
Warren. Adderson and to Senate Majority Leader Mel Miller, because really it's going
to be up to them to see that the legislation at this point gets out. Thank you,
Frank'..
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Thank you, Mary, it's a good point. Yes.
PETER BURR: I 'd like to follow up on Mrs. Clavin's question and ask John Thatcher
to comment, but I'm a little bit confused. I guess I get the feeling from Mr. Murphy
2 5 `t AUGUST 3, 1988
that the incineration approach is a negative, and maybe on 'behalf of the Board, and
maybe you, John, on the various alternatives, and I guess I get the feeling,
that you were learning toward incineration, at least; at one point. Could you sort
of give us a little update on that?
JOHN THATCHER : Yes, basically we were, because frankly we didn't think--the
Lockwood, Kessler and Bartlett report They did not,- in that report, give
any other real alternatives than incineration, and it was only 'two years later that
we suddenly realized there were other alternatives. One of them is composting.
One of them is sending the garbage over to Connecticut if we can get someone to
take it. The other is sending it to Southold. We are part of the Town of Southold
as Frank just mentioned. So these are all questions that deal not only with engine
ing, they deal with economics as well. Now the study that the Conservancy has
just sponsored--and these are incinerator engineers I might add who wrote the repo -
have concluded that economically it would be cheaper to send our garbage to Southold
than it would to set up an incinerator here. The reason this is so is. ,because the
federal regulations that are coming down, and the state regulations, and 1 have
a draft of them at home that's that thick, are so complex and aiiismall incinerator
such as we would need here would. be immensely costly. You're talking for one
incinerator on this Island about a million and a half dollars, installed, operating,
with an ash pit that's fully lined, with pollution controls on the stack. It's going
to cost a bundle, and the real question that is going to have to be decided by the
people of Fishers Island is should we afford something like this, or should we negotiate
with Southold on situations that might turn out not just to be a little cheaper but
substantially so, where we would get rid'of all ouri 1garbage lock,.:.stock and. barrel
to either Southold's .composting. or Southold's .landfill.
PETER BURR: John, if 'we decided--Fishers Island decided to support the incinerator
approach, would we need the blessing of the Town Board?
JO.HN THATCHER : Probably not.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: No, you have a--we're not interfering--you have a Garbage
District over here that handles your garbage. It's entirely their decision. When
I'm.talking I'm.talking about. my own person--it!s_ .not forcing a town policy down
anyone's .throat' on Fishers Island. If Fishers Island Garbage District wants to do
whatever they want to do that's .their right.
JOHN THATCHER: They 'are empowered to do it, and to a very real extent the
people of Fishers Island through them. They have the power to put an incinerator
here. . The financing, okay, would have to be Southold.
PETER BURR: The Town Board would have some involvement you say?
JOHN THATCHER: Yes.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Your special district can spend borrow money. They're
empowered to. borrow money. We would have to back it up. The faith and credit
of the Town. .
JOHN THATCHER : So in the long run I'm . sure the Town Board would have some
involvement in it. So you're dealing with both engineering and economics here and
that's .what we're going to have to wrestle with ont he 20th of August and I hope
those of you who are here and are interested please. do come.
PETER BURR: John, would it come to a vote and not be just three commissioners
of the garbage district?
JOHN THATCHER : .1 would hope that the people of Fishers Island would have a
direct say in it. This has. been the Conservancy's position all along. It's not simply
mine.(personally, that the people of the Island should make a decision on it. The
Conservancy's .role here, we have always considered as being trying to get as much
information on the various alternatives as we possibly can, and then let the garbage
commissioners decide and let the people decide. That's basically what we're
JUSTICE EDWARDS : Frank, one comment. Now you're talking economics. You're
talking a million dollars for an incinerator here, and I think the Town Board will
back me in saying that we're talking ten million dollars for a compost facility over
in Southold--more. So if you take our eight percent that we're paying into Southold,
we'll .be paying close to a million dollars over the next ten years for theirs, plus
if we continue our garbage district, which this year was close to seventy thousand
dollars, Fishers Island is well over a million dollars supporting Southold's composting.
And I think --this is the first time I've brought these figures up. They will be
brought up on the 20th, but I think we should do all the garbage matters on the
20th.
AUGUST 3, 1988 255
JOHN THATCHER : Yes,. I think so, because our. figures are quite different, Ray.
Our figures are over 1:5" million for an `incinerator here, which is quite a bit more,
even then the figures yob: mentioned.
JUSTICE EDWARDS : We'll .bump heads on the 20th.
PETER BURR: Yes, but you know, Ray, I think though .it's important, with all
due respect, that the Board understands that we have some very important issues
that we're all involved in over here on Fishers Island. This is clearly one that
is of a very high level and of certain high intensity as well among many of us,
both summer and year-around, and that it is important that the Board, in this kind
of forum, hear some of the positions and some of our-. concerns. The 20th is fine,
but I think it has to be stated again today.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : It's the most important decision that any Town, hamlet
like Fishers Island, is facing is the garbage crisis.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: I think we're all quite aware of not only your problem,
but. our problem.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN : Your. question was why do we support the concept
of composting, and I would say the majority of the Board did from the beginning,
because as John said the economics and the environmental issues involved. Of course,
no matter what system you put in place the DEC requests and demands practically
a back-up system, so you have to look at what you're putting in as your first system.
If it doesn't work then you have to go to the second system which they insist on.
But when we looked at it economically--and everyone knows composting works,
scientifically,things compost, my only concern has been the technology to make it
happen. As Frank says we have traveled--in the last three years, you know the
saying "you walk on water", well I 've walked on garbage, and we've been to Sandy
Hook, we've:been to many of these composting places and I'm very impressed. It
does work. We produce. an amount that we could handle with our composting. I
think if we were a larger township we'd have difficulty going in this direction, but
as the saying goes, We .d6n'fi-..!"produce enough garbage". so we can sty in the compost-
ing area. There will be problems with smell that we have to deal with, but all of
these we will do through the proposals that we receive and we hope we'll make the
wisest decision.
JOHN THATCHER: And from Fishers Island's point of. view if we send our garbage
to Southold .we won't have an:-.'environmental problem.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: I'd just like to make another point too, because 1 also
have traveled on this composting and I think it just makes sense for small communities
such as ourselves that really do not have the industrial wastes to put into the land-
fill, into the system, it just makes more sense to do it, . and I was also at a conference
put on by the Association of the Bar held in New York City, and it's very interesting
that the pasties .industry itself is. becoming aware of their pollution of the whole
landfil:l::sit`ua.tiori. because the things just do not decompose. What they will do on
all these-plastic bottles that. you get with shampoos or any other kind, have an
embossed figure on the. bottom so that you'll be able to tell what resins are in these
plastics, because some of these plastics can:,-.be recycled as long as you know which
resins are in' them, that they can be recycled and done again. And that's the whole
thing. We have to, learn, I think, as a country that we cannot stop just throwing
things away. It's .just absolutely impossible. And I was interested to see on T.V.
(change tape) Mayor Koch.was:;going to stop throwing his sludge out into the ocean
by 1.998. 1 don't know how we're going to swim til 1998,' but here's a whole way
with chipping and things that you could still make a compost out of that, and I
think we have to really address these problems. I know if anybody has seen the
articles in Time and. Newsweek this past week, you don't want to even eat a piece
of fish from the ocean and what have you. It's deplorable what we're doing and
we just have to stop being a throw away society.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: By the way, this whole STOP Program is one of the first
stages in doing a good job in composting. It's taking the potential chemicals that
are hazardous out of the system before it goes in. We also recycle car batteries
and household. batteries on the mainland in Southold. It's been. excellent program.
We take out about. a little over a 55 gallon drum of these small little batteries, the
hearing aides, the flashlights, that type of stuff. Tremendous amount of pollution,
and the largest single source of contamination in a landfill or the ash from an
incinerator comes from household batteries. Very heavy in mercury, and zinc, and
this is why we're getting into this program is to all lead up to so that when we
go into a system it will be as clean and as safe as possible.- Garbage always seems
to make a fascinating discussion whenever we go to any of these meetings, and always
seems to take up the most time. But maybe we should go on to other subjects because
we will be discussing it over here on the 20th. Any other comments on questions ?
256 AUGUST 3, 1988
STEVE MALINOWSKI : We have a growing problem here with group rentals and in
effect what's happening is various houses that are in areas that are zoned residential
are being used for group rentals which I would think is changing the use to multiple
residence. My question is, is that technically illegal under the zoning? If it is,
could you give us some ideas on how we can enforce that?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Yes, it is, and maybe we should like---Victor, would you
mind giving a few comments? You're always good, you never are'at a loss for words.
Victor Lessard, our Principal Building Inspector.
EXECUTIVE ADMINISTRATOR- .:LESSARD (spoke to Mr..: Malinowski. in the back of
the room and his statement was inaudible) .
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Steve, this is a big problem in all the towns. Southampton
Town has gone through a terrible, terrible time. Maybe also I'd like to ask our
Town Attorney R.ob. Berntsson to please make a few comments. „
ASSISTANT .TOWN ATTORNEY BERNTSSON : We just amended our definition of
"family" under our Zoning Code to address this problem specifically. A lot of research
went .into it legally before we amended the definition. It's a very, very difficult
area to regulate,. because as. Victor was saying--I couldn't hear everything :he said,
and ifI do repeat something I'm.sorry- but it is 'the constitutional rights involved,
the rights of family, the right to privacy, many issues:-comerii:nto play. We have
the .definition there and we hope that that, number one, will discourage people from
It is very difficult, though, to go into the household and prove your case.
We have a burden of beyond reasonable doubt to prove our case, just. as we would
in a criminal case. A zoning case is a criminal case. We're trying everything we
can. I know I've spoken to several Town Attorneys from the other towns at meetings
we've been to on how do they do it, and it's .an unanswerable question. What you
have to rely on is your neighbors giving affidavits, being willing to testify in court,
and when you put them on the spot like that it becomes difficult for them. But
it is a problem. Under 'our current definition we do allow five unrelated persons
to live in the same home, and that may seem like a lot to several people, but that's
pretty much the minimum you can go to and the courts will allow. Other cases where
there have .been two or three have been struck down as unconstitutional. You cannot'
people to live in certain situations, s:So. we're aware of the problem on the mainland
as well.. I'm .sure. you have it here on Fishers Island. I wish there was a better
answer I could give you,. but we are looking at it and anything we can do we will
look into it.
STEVE MALINOWSKI:: Could a Building Department Inspector
ASSISTANT. .TOWN :ATTORNEY BERNTSSON : It would be the Building Department.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Okay, anyone else? Yes, ma'am?
PAT .KIBBE: My name is Pat Kibbe. I have the joy of being a resident, or at
least a summer resident the past twenty years in one of the fort houses here. Part
of that joy is taking walks to some of the beaches, and unfortunately the walks `
. and the bicycle rides are not as beautiful as they used to be, especially over towards
South Beach. The other day when I was over there I had an. .idea that wouldn't
cost you.very much, and I'm sure would. be appreciated by everybody. There is
-a wonderful building that the Highway Department, I believe, is using for .our wonderful
Highway men who help us here, for their equipment and I believe it is--it is occupied
by the Highway Department. It's an old building that used to be:part of the fort
and because 1 do have--own one of the buildings I know it must be beautifully made
and it!s still strong and worth at least a coat of paint. It wouldn't really cost much.
I'm .sure you could paint it up just like we did those houses. I'm sure the structure
is still like a fort, and I'm' sure that it is probably illegal that our Highway Department
does not even have toilet facilities in this building. But this could be hooked up
and it could be so attractive. As it is now you go by this building that looks horri °
They have had to pile the sand in the box right in front of it. All those wonderful
gorgeous. bushes and sand that we used to have, it is an- utter mess, but it could
be so easy to fix. You could put some cement around the building. You could
paint the. building white or anything, that wood is still wonderful. You could have
one of our wonderful architects who live on the Island just put some windows and
shutters. You could put fence around it so.you wouldn't have to look at those
piles, and it really wouldn't cost a thing.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN : I want you on my. committee.
PAT .KIBBE: I would love to try to---'1'm sure there are builders and contractors
here that could fix that building up for the Town.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN : As chairman of the Highway Committee your remarks
are duly noted, and I shall take them back to the Superintendent of Highways.
AUGUST 3, 1988 - 257
PAT KI BBE: And- I would be .,ha,pp.y to..-make...any .suggestions, because we certainly
don't want an aluminum thing like the Coast .Guard put at the ferry dock, but we
do want to keep the fort feeling and 1 just think it would be absolutely wonderful,
and I'm sure all of us would appreciate our walk to South Beach more. : Thank\ you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I might just add, in talking about the Highway, the Highway
Superintendent, as some of you people might know, had a very bad'heart attack
several months ago. He has just started back to work again. He's in excellent
health, hopefully. He has stopped smoking. He used to smoke three or four packs
of, cigarettes a day, minimum, and he has stopped and he looks good and he is working
part-time again, otherwise he definitely would have been here .today. But we will
pass this on and look into it, it's a very good suggestion. Anyone else?
PEGGY C LAVI N: M,ay I ask what the status of the Master Plan that we heard so
much about a few ago is?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Four, years ago I predicted that it was going to be passed
in about a, month or so, and we've gone through quite a few predictions. We are,
I think, getting down to the final version, and I think maybe in the next three
or four. months hopefully we might have some action.
PEGGY CLAVI N': Does it have to. come back for a resolution? Referendum?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : Another public hearing, not a referendum.
PEGGY CLAVIN': How will it be passed?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: By the Town Board.
BRAD BURNHAM: Frank, we're an island surrounded by water and what is Southold
actually doing about their waterfront which.,everybody is fighting the problems of
pollution and so on. Are there any major initiatives recently?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: As far as run-off going into the bays, the creeks, the
cound, that type?
BRAD BURNHAM : All.we- !Iiea.r about is Brown Tides and various things that are
occurring over there and we're afraid it's coming this way.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Southold has done quite a bit. We put in our budget about
$25,000 'a year just for structures, drainage structures, to divert water from going
into the creeks. We just finished one project where a reed bed, pragmitiies planted
in gravel to purify the road run-off water. We put a series of leaching pools, went
into a collection...basin, and the overflow coming into this area. The Trustees are
working with us. We're doing testing on it to see how it's coming out. Everything
looks great on it so far. It was probably one of the first done in the state. The
Village of Greenport had tried this and did some experimental work many years ago
on cleaning up. this type of water and it worked very well. As I say, we're in the
planning stage fora very large project in Southold now. This one--the one we're
talking .about. is in Cutchogue going into Mud Creek, and after a rain it really is
a mud creek, and this has worked very well. We've stopped the mud from going
into the creek, which in turn carries a lot of the fertilizer, the agricultural chemicals,
the road run-off and that, and .with a little more testing I think we're going .to:,
come out looking very well on it. Suffolk County is helping with doing a series
of rock gabions in Arshamomaque Creek to help clean up the water. We don.'t know
how effective it will be,. but it is a good measure to help reduce some of the coliform
going into the creek. In' their capital. budget the County Executive has money for
a large sump to stop that water.:*from going in that particular creek. We've done
quite a bit in Southold. We have to do more. This whole--in the long run recycling
your. garbage--the organic faction. back into the ground in the form or organic matter
is probably the best way we could stop the leaching of nitrogen, of various agricultural
chemicals, and the waste of so much water by adding organic water to the soil.
This is,.-certainly in the far future, but it is a method of trying to accomplish just
what you're talking about, and I think we're making good progress. We could always
do more. Ruth, maybe you want to address that Waterfront Revitalization Study?
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Yes, we have a very good committee on the Local Waterfront
Revitalization Program. They're just:going around the perimeter of all of Southold
Town identifying the spots such:as water.-dependent uses, and where marinas perhaps
should be placed or could be expanded, places that should be acquired for access
of Town residents, because we have very few places on the Sound for Town access.
So they're doing a really very good job. The State is very pleased about their progress,
and also Jean and I just attended the State of the Bays Conference last Friday,
which was basically all about the Brown Tide, and really the scientists still do not
know what it really is, how it reproduces itself, they just know that it chocks off
your scallops. In' fact there was one gentleman there who runs a marina .that feels
that just most everything west of Shelter Island is practically dead, and it's probably
5 V AUGUST 3, 1988
because it could be a cyclical thing, but also you have overloaded a system which
is the Peconic Bays, which we hope to be included into an estuarine, National Estuarine
Program. You've overloaded it with sewage plant outfalls from I think there's one
in Sag Harbor, there's two in Riverhead, and you've had the creeks and the road
run-off, and a system can only absorb so much, and after talking to our Baymen
and what have you, or you see the pictures from the Suffolk County Board of Health,
Department of Ecology, the Brown Tide ended just about where Gardiners Island
came: into Fishers Island. S�o you can see, and my baymen friends' tell me that they
feel it takes the Peconics about a year to flush itself out. So you can see that
the problem just ended right at Gardiners Island and the rest of that was brown.
I understand that the counts last week was up slightly, but not that noticeable.
So we're just going to have to wait and see what August brings, because it is just
decimated.: Our scallop production--and that is probably one of the most economical
viable sources of revenue for our.. baymen, and they've, had 'to go to other things.
Now they went to conks, ,andfconk§;.are even dying out. So we just have to combine
and somehow get people together of the different agencies, the Town,.,the County,
the State, and see what we can do for regulations as far as new regs for outfall
pipes, new regs for, land use management, for marinas. We just have to stop polluting
basically. It was a very good conference and I think people learned a lot.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Any other questions? Yes, sir?
CHARLES FERGUSON : My name is Charles Ferguson from the Henry L. Ferguson
Museum. What I have to say is strictly I got a telephone call this morning
from Weston:,. Massachusetts, and the young lady.said, "Did you feel the big bang?"
and I said, "What big bang?" She said, "What, you don't know about it? I.t.was
an earthquake rated two on the Richter Scale on the east end of Fishers Island.
said, "Well, that might end our. garbage problem."
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It would. be nice if it could go away that easy. Anyone
else? Yes, Brad.
BRAD BURNHAM: Frank, it has. been customary for the Civic Association to:at
the end of these meetings to welcome people to a table over there where it's normally
cookies and lemonade. I forgot to tell Speedy about this and an hour ago I told
Ar._t�Walsh; andc.as�a"...new:.cmiemb.or::.of .th'e, Ci:vic(�As:sociation he rushed down to the
store and he got some lemonade_and no cookies.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY : We appreciate it. You could come down to the boat to
and have a::soda on us. Anyone else? (No response.) Okay, 1 would like to introduce
two other special people. One is a Bruce Blower over here, head of Suffolk County
Handicapped Services. Bruce has made the trip over here. He has been an inspiration
to many, many people in'Suffolk County, and he has done a fantastic job to make
people aware of the needs for us. .to address helping a handicapped person and showing
what a person can do who has a handicap. Bruce, we're very proud of you and
thank you'.for coming over here today. And one other:*commissioner who hopefully
is going to come with some very good news--I'm sure everybody on Fishers Island
will be very happy to hear about:.this--and it's the new Commissioner of Real Estate,
Joan Scherb who hopefully some day soon will have some very good news on Robins
Island. Joan.
COMMISSIONER OF REAL ESTATE:SCHERB (Suffolk County) : I j List-twanted- to
say that 'I was given a tour. One of my jobs is to look for affordable housing in
Suffolk County, and 'I '.was given a tour of the East End of Fishers Island and I
can tell you there is no need for affordable housng on the East End of Fishers Island.
It's .very, very. beautiful and anything we.can do to help you preserve what you
have here, because all of Suffolk County in my opinion is terribly worth any effort
we make for. preservation. Give my office a call and I'll perfectly happy to help.
Thank you_.veryc much.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Okay, if there are no other comments--any Town Board
members any comments? (No response.) If not, again I would like to thank those
who,.came over. I would like to thank those on Fishers Island :for having us here
today,:Aaking the time out of your schedule to come meet with us. All of these
people will be available for any questions. I know the Health Department is out
checking some wells, the Trustees, the DEC is out. So if there is anything, please
contact them, we're here. And again, thank. you and I'd like a motion:-.to:.adjourn.
Moved by Councilwoman Cochran, seconded. by Councilwoman Oliva, it was
RESOLVED that this Town Board meeting be and hereby is adjourned at 2:10 P.M. "
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilwoman Cochran,
Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
Judith T. Terry
Southold Town Clerk